Donald Trump Jr. met with Russian lawyer during presidential campaign after being promised information helpful to father’s effort - The Washington Post

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B Keg

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Jul 10, 2017, 8:22:13 AM7/10/17
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/presidents-son-met-with-russian-lawyer-during-presidential-campaign-after-being-promised-information-helpful-to-fathers-effort/2017/07/09/90c0e3e8-64e9-11e7-8eb5-cbccc2e7bfbf_story.html?utm_term=.b409f8b81455&wpisrc=nl_az_most&wpmk=1


Seriously this is nothing it's just normal shit that goes on all the time. People call up campaigns and promise all kinds of information and campaigns sometimes hear them out. Omg stop the presses.

ClayC

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Jul 10, 2017, 9:20:29 AM7/10/17
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If a lawyer -- Russian, British, American, whatever -- called you up during your campaign for POTUS, mayor, city dog catcher or president of the PTA and told you he had some damning information about your opponent... who wouldn't at least meet to hear him out?

If Mr. Trump (Jr.) became aware of something illegal going on during his meeting and didn't disclose that, then there's an issue. Otherwise... it looks like an attempt to create a story out of nothing.

Ken Newman

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Jul 10, 2017, 6:14:20 PM7/10/17
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Crowded much inside that bubble? Between you and Clay, it must be short on oxygen in their. Explains the silliness. 
To wit: you both have agreed in the past that when someone of any significance from Russia talks to you, you are basically dealing with Putin. Given that, it wasn't some random person offering dirt on Hillary, it was the Russian gov't. First of all, that's pretty unreliable as a source. Second, working with a foreign gov't, rather than just a foreigner, may well be illegal. And how can one not expect some quid pro quo when getting help from someone like Putin? To find nothing here is to have a special kind of myopia. 


On Monday, July 10, 2017 at 7:22:13 AM UTC-5, Brian Kegerreis wrote:

B Keg

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Jul 10, 2017, 6:36:46 PM7/10/17
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Omg Ken, you're seriously drinking the koolaid aren't you. 

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Ken Newman

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Jul 10, 2017, 7:37:43 PM7/10/17
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Two timelines of interest.
1) The meeting takes place. Five days later the tWP publishes the story about the hacking of DNC. Eight days later Wikileaks starts releasing stolen DNC documents. 
2) In March, Don Jr denies the meeting. Recently he said that the meeting took place; but that it was about adoption issues. More recently, he admitted that the Russian agent offered dirt on Hillary. 

I've given up sugared beverages; now I'm getting off diet soda, too. Feel free to adopt that dietary recommendation. 
I've got a sock puppet demo for you and Clay. Imagine that we're in a bank and three people come in, wearing masks, dressed in Kevlar, and carrying AR's. Nothing gets said for a moment. No statement of intent. Does that suggest a bank robbery? Now, imagine that during the subsequent investigation, surveillance video shows the getaway car cruising the bank for a few days prior. Now, doesn't that all suggest a bank heist is about to happen? No admission of intent, no admission of guilt. But sure looks suspicious. It would be hard, but not impossible, to infer something about to happen just by observing the surveillance video. In retrospect, it's pretty easy to see what was going to happen. 

The same applies with the Trump/Russian connection, and the Kobach led charge to do widespread voter suppression. I think that we've seen way more than the robbers casing the bank. We haven't seen the AR's yet, and nobody's fired a shot. But I think we can see the guys getting out of the car and putting on their masks. To you, this seems to mean nothing. To a clear thinker walking by, three guys putting on masks outside a bank might suggest a problem. 

To suggest that there is really nothing to see is an amazing imitation of the ostrich. Maybe it's not a bubble after all; it's a small hole in the sand. 
So, no Koolaid here. 

On Monday, July 10, 2017 at 5:36:46 PM UTC-5, Brian Kegerreis wrote:
Omg Ken, you're seriously drinking the koolaid aren't you. 

Ken Newman

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Jul 10, 2017, 9:31:40 PM7/10/17
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And this just in. The NYT tonight released an article as an addendum to the initial one about the Trump Jr meeting. Turns out that Jr knew before the meeting that there would be discussion about material harmful to Hillary, and that it was being offered by the Russian gov't  to the Trump campaign. Saying it again, offered by the Russian gov't to the Trump campaign. Drink up boys; try not to get any sand in your glass. 
  By the way, just for fun. In the Gore/Bush contest, Gore was offered the "playbook" from the Bush campaign. What did his operatives do with it? They turned it over to the FBI. Just thought you might want to know the next time you're running for PTA or dogcatcher. 


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Ken Newman

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Jul 10, 2017, 9:33:38 PM7/10/17
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On Monday, July 10, 2017 at 7:22:13 AM UTC-5, Brian Kegerreis wrote:

Ken Newman

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Jul 10, 2017, 9:49:59 PM7/10/17
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And I forgot; here's a real no news part of the story. DT, jr. has hired himself a lawyer. I'm beginning to wonder if all these Trump people hiring lawyers are going to run out of resources. Pretty soon, the lawyers are going to have to plead conflict of interest. "Sorry, I already represent three other members of the Trump inner circle". 


On Monday, July 10, 2017 at 7:22:13 AM UTC-5, Brian Kegerreis wrote:

GMoney

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Jul 11, 2017, 8:05:55 AM7/11/17
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*crickets*

Why it is so hard for people to just admit that the Trumps are all douche bags? They'd do anything they think they could get away with. Russian government? Sure, bring it on, if it helps me win. It's all about winning, at any cost.

Nothing should surprise you anymore. But why the fuck would anyone still DEFEND these people?? 

"Well....I hate Trump BUT.....i hate Liberals more so....i better argue!"

Have a little self respect. Stand on your own two feet.....and call a douche a douche. It's cleansing. (see what i did there?)

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B Keg

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Jul 11, 2017, 10:34:35 AM7/11/17
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Ok trumps a douche 
He doesn't do anything more douche like than Clinton or Obama or Bush, he's just less savvy at it.

On Jul 11, 2017 07:05, "GMoney" <gm0n...@gmail.com> wrote:
*crickets*

Why it is so hard for people to just admit that the Trumps are all douche bags? They'd do anything they think they could get away with. Russian government? Sure, bring it on, if it helps me win. It's all about winning, at any cost.

Nothing should surprise you anymore. But why the fuck would anyone still DEFEND these people?? 

"Well....I hate Trump BUT.....i hate Liberals more so....i better argue!"

Have a little self respect. Stand on your own two feet.....and call a douche a douche. It's cleansing. (see what i did there?)
On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 8:49 PM, 'Ken Newman' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition <kansas-city-diversity-coal...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
And I forgot; here's a real no news part of the story. DT, jr. has hired himself a lawyer. I'm beginning to wonder if all these Trump people hiring lawyers are going to run out of resources. Pretty soon, the lawyers are going to have to plead conflict of interest. "Sorry, I already represent three other members of the Trump inner circle". 

On Monday, July 10, 2017 at 7:22:13 AM UTC-5, Brian Kegerreis wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/presidents-son-met-with-russian-lawyer-during-presidential-campaign-after-being-promised-information-helpful-to-fathers-effort/2017/07/09/90c0e3e8-64e9-11e7-8eb5-cbccc2e7bfbf_story.html?utm_term=.b409f8b81455&wpisrc=nl_az_most&wpmk=1


Seriously this is nothing it's just normal shit that goes on all the time. People call up campaigns and promise all kinds of information and campaigns sometimes hear them out. Omg stop the presses.

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GMoney

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Jul 11, 2017, 11:02:38 AM7/11/17
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On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 9:34 AM, B Keg <kegb...@gmail.com> wrote:
Ok trumps a douche 
He doesn't do anything more douche like than Clinton or Obama or Bush, he's just less savvy at it.

 Obama is a good guy who didn't really do anything awful as a president, he just wasn't anything great. His signature achievement is pretty much a dud. That's makes him a fair to middlin' president...not a douche.

W. was a guy who'd be great to have a beer with, but was in over his head as president. His foreign policy debacles cost many lives, and he was a poor president. He's only partially a douche.

Clinton is a douche. He's a slimy dude, but his worst mistakes as president were pretty tame. He got fucked by Lewinsky and North Korea, and his missiles missed Bin laden by 10 minutes. But hey, it's the economy, stupid.

Trump's douchiness exists on a whole other level above those other guys. It's really not even close. 

B Keg

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Jul 11, 2017, 11:52:00 AM7/11/17
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Ok why do we keep electing poopheads?

And on a serious note, would RM and the liberal media be going after HRC and the Clinton foundations pay to play allegations and the DNC and the horrible things revealed in the emails about how they called Hispanic voters taco bowls and screwed over Bernie? 
Would they examine and expose what quid pro quo HRC got for giving uranium to the Russians?

No of course not because she's thier candidate and they wouldn't give a rats ass.

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GMoney

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Jul 11, 2017, 12:05:45 PM7/11/17
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On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 10:51 AM, B Keg <kegb...@gmail.com> wrote:
Ok why do we keep electing poopheads?

Because people like you, my brothers, my parents, etc. see it as your civic duty to vote.

This is your America. 
 
And on a serious note, would RM and the liberal media be going after HRC and the Clinton foundations pay to play allegations and the DNC and the horrible things revealed in the emails about how they called Hispanic voters taco bowls and screwed over Bernie? 
Would they examine and expose what quid pro quo HRC got for giving uranium to the Russians?

I'm so sick of wondering what the media might do. FUCK THE MEDIA.

What are our elected leaders ACTUALLY DOING? Shouldn't that be of slightly more import?

Goddamnit people....heads in asses. 
 
No of course not because she's thier candidate and they wouldn't give a rats ass.

Oh well then in that case, let's be dumbshits!

There are media outlets who would be nice to Hillary?!?!? Well shit, I better start defending Trump.


Ken Newman

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Jul 11, 2017, 1:06:44 PM7/11/17
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Ken Newman

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Jul 11, 2017, 1:25:48 PM7/11/17
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G, everything you point out is on message, except for the "fuck the media" part. That's what BK meant when he jokingly said, "stop the presses". The media is responsible for ALL of the findings in this affair. The Senate, House, FBI, etc are all following leads provided by the media. BK is such a fan of history, and constantly reminds us of his intimate connection with it. Perhaps you or CL can remind him of Watergate. Did the Senate figure that one out? No. The House? No. The FBI? No. The Washington Post? Yes. Did the story take days, weeks to unfold? No, It took months. So, don't fuck or fuck with the media. They are driving the story. Every time they look under a rock, they find a slimy member of the Trump circle. Every time they ask a direct question, they get lied to. Every time Fox News gets lied to, they accept the answer without question. MSNBC aired a great short clip that showed a press person asking a Trump person simple, direct questions. All the answers were verifiable lies. Even Kelleyanne had to lie through her teeth. 

People on the right, or, as BK would say, unaligned with any party, use the argument of false equivalence. Hillary's a douche, so what's the big deal? The deal is that HRC was easily Machiavellian in her approach to politics. Trump's group is more like a combination of Gotti's and Romanov's, where the driving forces are family and money. They aim to profit from the presidency; they aim to consolidate power, and they use any and all tactics to do so. Their attack on the media is Goebbelesque in nature (see, no mention of you-know-who). 

As for the contention that HRC would get a pass, you are on point. It's speculative nonsense. WJC got his comeuppance from the media, albeit less liberal parts. Point is, the media has plenty of folks who were salivating at the chance to take on HRC. Since she isn't POTUS, all that is moot bullshit; except to Trump and his lapdogs. 

Ken Newman

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Jul 11, 2017, 1:47:10 PM7/11/17
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And, for BK, CL is probably writing right now about how, once again, he's gotten facts mixed with Fox. They do sound somewhat alike; but they have nothing in common. The trope that we, under Obama and HRC, sold uranium to Russia is just false. Short Google search will show that multiple sites will confirm this as total fabrication. Fact Check.org labelled this as "false". Once again, vast conclusions made with half-vast substantiation. 
  A good article shows that Russia bought a stake in a Canadian company that owns some mineral rights in the US. But even so, we still control where any domestic uranium gets sent. Besides, Russian and the Stans mine more than enough uranium for their domestic needs and any that they might want to sell to Iran or other bad actors. Russian doesn't own 20% of our uranium. And, just for fun, it turns out that we are a net importer of urnaium. including from, of all places, Russia. And, more fun, HRC didn't make, and could not veto, any deal involving Russian and our uranium. Isn't reality fun? Doesn't bullshit stink? 

ClayC

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Jul 11, 2017, 3:04:37 PM7/11/17
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Ken, I'm not sure when I suggested that talking with anyone from Russia = talking with Putin and the government. Oh, and please, enough of the "sock puppets".

G, believe me when I tell you that I am not defending Trump. He seems to get dumber by the day. His Tweets have absolutely caused me to lose whatever respect I had for him. Stupid. Unprofessional. Un-presidential. Terrible. The man needs decency and humility filters added to his brain.


On Monday, July 10, 2017 at 7:22:13 AM UTC-5, Brian Kegerreis wrote:

GMoney

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Jul 11, 2017, 3:45:26 PM7/11/17
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On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 2:04 PM, ClayC <claycar...@mac.com> wrote:

G, believe me when I tell you that I am not defending Trump. He seems to get dumber by the day. His Tweets have absolutely caused me to lose whatever respect I had for him. Stupid. Unprofessional. Un-presidential. Terrible. The man needs decency and humility filters added to his brain.


I believe you.

B Keg

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Jul 11, 2017, 5:12:25 PM7/11/17
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I lost all respect for him when he fired Gene Simmons on The Apprentice

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Ken Newman

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Jul 11, 2017, 5:13:13 PM7/11/17
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Clay, maybe you didn't say that talking to a Russian=Putin; but you should have. Everyone else treats it like that; except perhaps someone in the Trump circle. The sock puppet demo is for when you, or others, seem particularly dense. Stop being dense, the puppets go away. I remain amazed that this Trump/Russian connection still seems like so much ho-hum to you. It chips away at the foundation of our democracy, and all I see is shoulder shrugs. If you don't want me critiquing your stance, do some more Google searching and see what a whole bunch of people not named Fox are saying. The media is driving a story much like Watergate. Were you ho-humming back then, too? It sure didn't sound like much at the get-go. Some low level break-in. Then, follow the evidence, follow the money, and presto, it landed in the White House. For those who seem more attention deficient, this story is unfolding at relative light speed. 
 It's good that you post your feeling about Trump; they're on point. Just add in proven criminality, and you're there. 

Ken Newman

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Jul 11, 2017, 5:54:03 PM7/11/17
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Ken Newman

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Jul 11, 2017, 8:43:36 PM7/11/17
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And then there's the Fox/Right response: nothingburger. It's amazing how many times this term echoed through the Fox bubble. These guys really do circle the wagons. They hone a message and repeat it ad nauseum. Too bad they don't circle their wagons around the truth. 
  Cut to Don Jr. issuing a scathing denial of any contact with the Russians, calling it a disgusting lie. Cut to Manafort calling the suggestion ridiculous. And, both these guys were at the meeting. Jared smart enough to remain silent thus far. 

GMoney

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Jul 12, 2017, 10:42:26 AM7/12/17
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You mean the Trumps are ruthless liars (aka "businessmen") who will do whatever it takes to "win"? 

Just who, exactly, did America THINK they were electing? 

Every single ignorant asshole who cast their ballot for Donald Trump should be nodding their head in agreement at this news. "Yep, that's our boy" they should be saying.





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David Fairchild

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Jul 12, 2017, 11:04:54 AM7/12/17
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Question: What evidence did the voting populous have that the Trumps lie as of Tuesday, Nov. 8?

GMoney

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Jul 12, 2017, 11:37:08 AM7/12/17
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Whoa we could be here for years............

- Too many sexual assault accusations to even mention, that he has outright denied, even though he's on record as suggesting you can do exactly the things he's accused of doing. 
- Racial discrimination cases where he's denied wrong doing, but then settled out of court without "admitting any guilt", but submitting to government oversight and offering assurances that he would not discriminate
- The glorious "Trump University"...which promised "learn from Donald Trump's hand picked instructors". When in fact Donald had little to do with the curriculum or the instructors. Even the name was a lie, it was never a university and had to change it's name because it was violating New York law operating as one. Trump denied wrong doing, and settled.
- Tenant intimidation. Denied. Settled
- Undocumented workers. Denied. Settled

This could go on for years. It's basically the standard laundry list of any sleazy yet successful business man who's spent his entire life doing whatever is necessary to succeed with just enough of a snif of credibility...and then buying his way out of trouble when it arises. 

I mean, is any of this really a surprise? He's been a public asshole for what, 4 decades??? This is no snake in the grass, this is no wolf in sheep's clothing......this is a grade A douchebag who campaigned on the platform that he was a grade A douchebag......and won.

Tell me....what does that make US?



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B Keg

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Jul 12, 2017, 12:06:46 PM7/12/17
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It makes us so tired of politics as usual we'll grasp at any hope and change candidate who comes along?

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ClayC

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Jul 12, 2017, 12:26:15 PM7/12/17
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I read a little more today about Jr.'s email chain with the Russian lawyer. Interesting indeed. Some observations.

1. This is not evidence of actual collusion but rather evidence of attempted collusion. The Russians put a "we have info on HRC" carrot on the stick that attracted DTJr to the meeting — but reality they had nothing to offer.

2. Attempted collusion by Team Trump looks bad and is bad. It's shady, but it may not be illegal.

3. I'm not surprised by this because the Trumps have always seemed a little shady to me, I suspect this sort of thing happens all the time in politics and business deals, and perhaps I've seen too many movies where this happens.

4. Now that Trump's dirty laundry is in the air, he is quickly losing (has lost?) credibility and trust with the people he is leading. I would rather he resign and let Pence take over. Then we can send all the Trumps and Clintons to a version of the Hunger Games and watch them devour each other.

5. What's incredibly sad is the story lost in all of this. The Russians wanted to meet regarding the act that Putin reacted to by shutting off adoptions to U.S. families. Thousands of kids sit in Russian orphanages and thousands of families in the U.S. are ready to adopt. But Putin won't let it happen and our government doesn't seem to care enough to pressure Vlad to change it. I am thankful every day that this didn't go in effect before September 2008. I guess its more a news story to see Trump and his enemies battle one another than kids in need of loving families.


GMoney

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Jul 12, 2017, 12:45:33 PM7/12/17
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On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 11:06 AM, B Keg <kegb...@gmail.com> wrote:
It makes us so tired of politics as usual we'll grasp at any hope and change candidate who comes along?

Which makes us lazy at best...apathetic at worst. As the old saying goes, apathy is worse than hate. At least hate requires emotion, engagement. 

No, I think we're lazy. My parents voted for Trump because he wasn't Hillary. End of story. They'd have voted for Richard Ramirez if he had an R next to his name and was pitted against Hillary. 

Why? because they'd be too lazy to research the fact he's actually the Night Stalker.  "Can't be worse than Hillary!"

Or as you may say, BK, at least Ramirez killed people out in the open. Hillary and Bill covered theirs up!

GMoney

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Jul 12, 2017, 12:51:58 PM7/12/17
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On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 11:26 AM, ClayC <claycar...@mac.com> wrote:
I read a little more today about Jr.'s email chain with the Russian lawyer. Interesting indeed. Some observations.

1. This is not evidence of actual collusion but rather evidence of attempted collusion. The Russians put a "we have info on HRC" carrot on the stick that attracted DTJr to the meeting — but reality they had nothing to offer.

As Sideshow Bob once said: I am currently incarcerated, imprisoned for a crime i didn't even commit. "Attempted murder", now honestly, did they ever give anyone a Nobel prize for "attempted Chemistry"? 

what is the difference between attempted collusion and actual collusion? Someone tried but wasn't quite competent enough to pull it off, so they should be given a pass??

Expert on 980 this morning said that campaign rules do not restrict the obtaining of this information, but they do ban the soliciting of it. (Which I find to be an odd distinction, actually). So.......what's the difference between obtaining and soliciting? I dunno, did Han shoot first? *shrug*

Trump's politics have all the earmarks of his business dealings. Seedy, but successful. Illegal? Yeah, probably. Prosecutable? Probably not. Just deny it, and prop up another enemy.......the Media! Yeah, it's the media's fault. You wouldn't believe how his supporters eat that up. Just ask my parents.

David Fairchild

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Jul 12, 2017, 2:21:36 PM7/12/17
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Clearly, yes, he has a long history of snakesmanship that many tried to warn us about before the election. You listed several well.

I just don't think you have proven lying, per say. There mostly likely was lying involved in many of these, yes, But I think this remains a subjective claim, not an objective one, yes?
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Ken Newman

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Jul 12, 2017, 8:38:17 PM7/12/17
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BK, this is as accurate as it is unfortunate. Kind of reminds me of some of what Michael Douglas said in American President. Something about people being so desperate for water that they would drink the sand if told that it was water. (misquoted for sure).  
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David Fairchild

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Jul 12, 2017, 9:04:53 PM7/12/17
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Michael Douglas movies in order of best to worst:

1 Falling Down
2 Wall Street
3 The China Syndrome
4 Traffic
5 Romancing the Stone
.
.
.
127 The American President

B Keg

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Jul 12, 2017, 9:18:52 PM7/12/17
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Yep

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GMoney

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Jul 13, 2017, 8:31:43 AM7/13/17
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You're off your nut......the dialog in American President is fantastic.....you can't get past the politics. I get that. Too bad...it's a smartly written movie. Everything Sorkin writes is well articulated, well composed, a joy to listen to, even if you don't like the content. 

I would have Disclosure somewhere on that top 5 list...another smartly written movie. 

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David Fairchild

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Jul 13, 2017, 9:14:27 AM7/13/17
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You've lost your man card.
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GMoney

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Jul 13, 2017, 9:46:03 AM7/13/17
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????

As a fellow wordsmith...how can you not appreciate a Sorkin script??!?! Or a Grisham inspired one?

If i give up my man card, you give up your wordsmith. 

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David Fairchild

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Jul 13, 2017, 10:07:05 AM7/13/17
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Eh, rapid fire does not always equal good writing. Sorkin never met a dramatic pause he liked.

Honestly I don't know much about his movies, but his TV writing often came across to me as pompous and unrealistic. West Wing and Sports Night -- People just don't talk like that. And what was avante garde dialogue technique and camera work in the 1990s and early 2000s just seems so contrived to me now -- and I was a bit of a West Wing fan.

There were some Good West wing moments to be sure, don't get me wrong.

The seen where Bartlett dresses down God after his secretary was killed by stomping out his cigarette on the church floor -- utterly brilliant. BRILLIANT!

But the seen where he dresses down the anti-LGBT Dr. Laura proxy character by quoting from memory Leviticus -- trite, pandering, and way overly pompous.

One guy's opinion.

Just one guy's opinion.
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GMoney

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Jul 13, 2017, 10:29:42 AM7/13/17
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On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 9:07 AM, David Fairchild <dfairc...@gmail.com> wrote:
Eh, rapid fire does not always equal good writing. Sorkin never met a dramatic pause he liked.

True, but rapid fire and intelligent...does.  And i'm with Sorkin on the dramatic pauses. Overly done, unrealistic. 
 
Honestly I don't know much about his movies, but his TV writing often came across to me as pompous and unrealistic. West Wing and Sports Night -- People just don't talk like that. And what was avante garde dialogue technique and camera work in the 1990s and early 2000s just seems so contrived to me now -- and I was a bit of a West Wing fan.

I can't speak to those.....never seen an episode of WW or SN.
 
The seen where Bartlett dresses down God after his secretary was killed by stomping out his cigarette on the church floor -- utterly brilliant. BRILLIANT!

Ok......
 
But the seen where he dresses down the anti-LGBT Dr. Laura proxy character by quoting from memory Leviticus -- trite, pandering, and way overly pompous.

Meh, so he didn't have perfect scripts every time over 100's of episodes...

One guy's opinion.

Just one guy's opinion.

Valid opinions.

You didn't like Disclosure? Or you didn't see it...

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David Fairchild

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Jul 13, 2017, 10:44:15 AM7/13/17
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"And i'm with Sorkin on the dramatic pauses. Overly done, unrealistic."

Then you would hate Dr. Who. Now there is a well written show -- most episodes, anyway.

Didn't see disclosure. Will put that on the list.
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ClayC

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Jul 13, 2017, 10:50:26 AM7/13/17
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Joey Tribianni told us how to do a good dramatic pause by using the "smell the fart" method.

Ken Newman

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Jul 13, 2017, 1:12:53 PM7/13/17
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Dave, we have different tastes. I loved the Leviticus scene. Of course, I've used the same notion more than a few times to dress down religious nuts. It point to a great hypocrisy that some carry. 

David Fairchild

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Jul 13, 2017, 4:40:24 PM7/13/17
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Ken,

Thank you for remember the scene. Do you recall the cathedral scene, too?

There is no comparison, the first was Sorkin pandering to his liberal friends by creating a pretty silly caricature of Dr. Laura and having Bartlett ripping her to shreds by quoting chapter and verse, literally. Of course it showed hypocrisy. It also made the Dr. Laura character an easy to dislike ingrate by needlessly having her be the only one who remained sitting in a packed room when the president entered, a point which Bartlett ended his rant by skewering her over.

The cathedral scene, by comparison? Masterful the way Bartlett asked to clear the room so he could spit in the face of God and litter His house in his anger. That was how someone in Bartlett's position and with his intelligence would lash out at God in his moment of pain, I believe.

Ken Newman

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Jul 13, 2017, 7:39:41 PM7/13/17
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I forget that scene. The one with Dr. Laura was on point, in that she forgot that she was not standing for Bartlett, but for the office of POTUS. She was wrong. The scene was likely not realistic, I agree. But I liked it anyway. 

Ken Newman

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Jul 13, 2017, 10:06:34 PM7/13/17
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Dave a wordsmith? C'mon, G. He makes all kinds of trivial but real grammatical errors. "Seen for scene" is the latest. He's an econ whiz. Wordsmith? Meh. Not without a better spellcheck. Sorry, Dave. But your knowledge of movies and music is encyclopedic. 


On Thursday, July 13, 2017 at 8:46:03 AM UTC-5, G wrote:
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Ken Newman

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Jul 13, 2017, 11:13:35 PM7/13/17
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Sorry I missed this post, Clay. Your first contention is dead wrong. An attorney on MSNBC pointed out that if you and I meet with the agreed intention of selling/buying cocaine, we have conspired to deal drugs. It's a crime. If I try to rip you off by selling sugar, that doesn't undo the criminality. Trump Jr. took the meeting absolutely expecting dirt on Hillary; and he dragged along Jared and Paul M. That is the definition of collusion, and conspiracy to commit. He has admitted criminality. 
  Jared has more trouble, having lied on the form used to vet him for security clearance. He perjured himself at least three times, having now admitted to three meetings with the Russians during the campaign. All were denied. That's a federal crime, good for up to 5 large. 
  That's all factual. I'm going to speculate that Jared might throw Daddy-in-law under the bus in order to self-protect. His dad was an amazing sleezebag, having hired a prostitute (and taping the meeting) to embarrass his brother-in-law (sister's spouse). The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. This is going to get ugly, unseemly, and like a multi-car pileup, impossible not to watch. 

ClayC

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Jul 13, 2017, 11:48:56 PM7/13/17
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It's my understanding that it is not illegal to accept information offered. It is illegal to solicit damaging info.

My "attempted" collision is a bit tongue and cheek since the lawyer didn't really have anything to offer. It was just a rouse to get Jr in the room. This is dumb and shameful. Not sure it is illegal.

Ken Newman

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Jul 14, 2017, 2:45:08 AM7/14/17
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I offer to sell you cocaine. You answer back, "That's great, especially later in the summer." That's the conspiracy to commit the crime of drug dealing. Like I said, even if I bring sugar to the deal, the crime is afoot. T Jr. was offered a deal and readily jumped on it. Several times, in back and forth e-mails. He then brought along Jared and Paul, kind of belying the notion that nothing much was going to happen. You don't bring those heavy hitters to a meeting in the middle of a Presidential campaign, expecting to hear some spiel about adopting Russian orphans. The meeting was about Hillary; and all parties knew that going in. The expectation was that the Russian lawyer was going to hand over info on HRC (cocaine). There would be an expected quid pro quo. The fact that she brought sugar is immaterial. Ask CL; he's the lawyer. This was conspiracy to commit election tampering with a foreign agent. That is a crime. This was a crime. You can try to spin it like Kelleyanne; but the problem doesn't go any on a wish. 
  By the way, did you see Kelleyanne with her flashcards? She's now become a parody of herself. Sad. 

GMoney

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Jul 14, 2017, 8:21:05 AM7/14/17
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On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 9:06 PM, 'Ken Newman' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition <kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Dave a wordsmith? C'mon, G. He makes all kinds of trivial but real grammatical errors. "Seen for scene" is the latest. He's an econ whiz. Wordsmith? Meh. Not without a better spellcheck. Sorry, Dave. But your knowledge of movies and music is encyclopedic. 

Oh Ken...I'll forgive your trespasses since you are relatively new to this list.

"Seen for scene" is not a grammatical error. David, like myself, like many people who love words, often think somewhat phonetically.....our minds get going a bit faster than our brains, and we're more concerned with the important structures and words, and not as detail oriented. As such, when our brains are filling in the little words, completing the sentences to get to where we need to go...."scene" works just as well as "seen".....and on we go. The best wordsmiths need to constantly re-read what they've written, because their brain has done this sort of simplistic replacement without them even being aware of it.  As a doc you know about this...our brain's are constantly looking for shorcuts. The "better" brains often use more shortcuts. 

If these were great manuscripts we were building here....I'd bother to do the necessary editing. As it is....when i've completed a paragraph, and notice i've written "seen" instead of "scene"...i may not bother to correct it. I trust that the readers understand I know the difference between the two. (I often don't have time either, as most of these posts are done in between activities at work for me....kicking off a script and waiting for the results, firing up a debugger and waiting for it's results, etc.)

Trust me, Dave's a wordsmith. I enjoy your vocab as well.

David Fairchild

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Jul 14, 2017, 9:26:04 AM7/14/17
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Touché, Ken. I actually did make my living as a reporter and editor for several years early in my career after J-School. But as my wife -- the copy editor -- will tell you, I suck at spelling and am often careless. Lots of editing required.
That reminds me of the best journalism joke ever. Ready? 
A reporter and editor are flying in a small plane above the barren desert.
They experience engine trouble and have to set down.
They're lost, without food or water, and it's 108 degrees.
So they start wondering in hopes of finding civilization.
The wonder for hours.
They become parched and increasingly desperate in the heat.
They are convinced the are going to die.
Then, they crest a dune see below in the distance what looks to be a beautiful oasis with a clear blue lake and many palm trees.
The reporter yells, "We're saved!"
The editor scoffs, "It's just a mirage."
The reporter start running as fast as he can to get there.
The editor slowly shuffles along behind still doubting.
The reporter arrives. Surely enough, it is life preserving, cool refreshing water.
The report dives in clothed and all and starts guzzling the water and splashing abut in joy.
Finally, when the reporter has had his fill he looks over toward the edge of the water. There stands the editor, completely dry, and taking a leak into the lake.
The reporter screams, "What are you doing?!"
The editor replies, "Making it better."

David Fairchild

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Jul 14, 2017, 9:29:12 AM7/14/17
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Thanks, G. I am frequently impressed with your twist of a phrase, too, as I have pointed out many times. It is one thing to make a good point. It is quite another to do it with style and wit. You impress often.

On Friday, July 14, 2017 at 7:21:05 AM UTC-5, G wrote:

B Keg

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Jul 14, 2017, 10:33:14 AM7/14/17
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Oh bullshit. There was no crime in that. He wasn't offered cocaine he was offered opposition Intel. And of course he agreed most people would have. 
If he lied about it to the FBI that's a crime. If he failed to disclose it in a security clearance form that's probably a security revocation issue but not a crime. 
Let the investigation procedure continue let's take the hate for Trump out the equation. Let's let the professionals and I don't mean the fucking media deliver the verdict. The Trump haters are driven by emotion not logic this is obvious to everyone except them. 

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Ken Newman

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Jul 14, 2017, 11:50:46 AM7/14/17
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I always try to proofread my posts. I feel better when the there/their, hear/here goofs are eliminated. Makes me feel more scholarly and accurate. Not any more of a Libertarian or Conservative, but more accurate in advancing my stupid positions. I won't be a grammar Nazi ever again. But "wordsmith" suggests real accuracy as well as "smithing". 


On Friday, July 14, 2017 at 7:21:05 AM UTC-5, G wrote:

Ken Newman

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Jul 14, 2017, 11:54:48 AM7/14/17
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This is good stuff. Did not know that you actually smithed words for a living. Did the editor allow you to substitute wonder for wander? In this instance, it actually has some ironic accuracy. I'm wandering around wondering if I'll find water. 
  As I told G, no more grammar Nazi-ing. Way petty. Keep making you good points. Feel free to post the unedited version. 

GMoney

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Jul 14, 2017, 12:00:36 PM7/14/17
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On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 10:50 AM, 'Ken Newman' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition <kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
But "wordsmith" suggests real accuracy as well as "smithing". 

To me it demands a certain TYPE of accuracy. For instance, you have to use your words correctly. You should structure your sentences correctly. You should follow good grammar basics, at the very least. But i'm willing to forgive "accidents". If you use "their" instead of "there", but you KNOW which one is actually correct...you can be forgive and still be a wordsmith. The reason is because of what i posted earlier...your brain switched to "phonetic" mode: As it worked hard to structure your sentence with the aim of achieving your primary point, it shortcutted a phonetic, allowing anything sounding like "there" to be printed, in deference to a higher purpose. 

I guess what I'm saying is that a wordsmith can be allowed to make a mistake, as long as he KNOWS he made one. 

 

ClayC

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Jul 14, 2017, 1:40:45 PM7/14/17
to Kansas City Diversity Coalition
**sigh**

Why do you, Ken, keep trying to convince me of this? I've already said that what he did is bad, terrible, rotten, etc. Frankly, the semantics of actual or attempted collusion doesn't matter to me. I used the word "attempted" to poke fun of the man!

Moving on.

I agree with BK that the cocaine analogy may not work. Although what Jr. did was shady and dirty, it very well may have been legal. I'll let the FBI and DOJ decide on that — since they've had such a good track record lately on those kind of these (again, another joke, don't get worked up).

Ken Newman

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Jul 14, 2017, 9:59:57 PM7/14/17
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Convincing you is a true waste of time. You've sort of crawled into BK's bubble. You could spend five minutes looking at the federal election code, finding out that the meeting was a clear violation. It is a crime to take something of value from a foreign agent in this scenario. The attempt to do so is conspiracy. It is cut and dried, no matter what you feel about it. And, since all involved (the Americans, at least) lied about the meeting, one could argue for a coverup to add to the list of crimes committed. 

ClayC

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Jul 14, 2017, 11:53:47 PM7/14/17
to Kansas City Diversity Coalition
Ken, no bubble here. No need to convince. I did not say that it was legal. I said I'm not sure. And, as we've learned, legal or illegal doesn't always equal DOJ prosecution or not.

Ken Newman

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Jul 15, 2017, 12:29:20 AM7/15/17
to Kansas City Diversity Coalition
True that, bro. But the evidence in this case, provided by Jr's own testimony, is fairly compelling. Now we find that the meeting did not have 3 Americans and a Russian, but actually 4 Russians, of varying connection to Putin's gov't. The prosecution that may or may not follow is the final determinant of guilt; but if you read the relavant statute and listen to Jr, there is not a lot of wiggle room left. 
  Every time I see and hear Jr, I can't help but agree with those that gave him the nickname Fredo . Don't get in the boat, Jr, don't get in the boat. What a douche. 

B Keg

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Jul 15, 2017, 12:49:06 AM7/15/17
to kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com
Im starting ro wonder if thia whole thing wasn't a set up from the get go. Has anyone determined how connected this Russian lawyer is to the democrats?
I mean the drip drip drip of information just seems coordinated somehow. 


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Ken Newman

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Jul 15, 2017, 3:27:59 AM7/15/17
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Oh, please, BK, the drip, drip is because everyone involved obfuscates and lies at every turn. Remember the history buff comment I made earlier? Where were you during Watergate? That took a couple of years to get figured out. What's your hurry? And the Democrat set up. What bullshit. If the Dems could have orchestrated that kind of event, why didn't they just go ahead and win the election? Off meds again, BK? Paranoid much? Remember, if you will, that this took place during the election campaign, not after Trump won. And how did the Dems get Jr., Jared, and Manafort to forego their campaign duties to go on a snipe hunt? Good luck getting good proof that that was what happened. I mean, not even Hannity goes that far into the weeds; and he's as crazy as anyone on TV. 
  While looking for a snippet of reality, remember that every public comment made by every Trump functionary has been a lie. That includes Trump, Jr, Jared, Manafort, Kelleyanne, all their lawyers, every person on Fox ( they don't actually lie too much; they just sit there slack jawed accepting the lies as reality). 
  What you and your fellow travelers on the right call drip, drip, drip is really just the continued revelation of more and more damning evidence of multiple crimes. And, it's all being led by the WP and NYT. Bravo for the free press. 


On Friday, July 14, 2017 at 11:49:06 PM UTC-5, Brian Kegerreis wrote:
Im starting ro wonder if thia whole thing wasn't a set up from the get go. Has anyone determined how connected this Russian lawyer is to the democrats?
I mean the drip drip drip of information just seems coordinated somehow. 

B Keg

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Jul 15, 2017, 9:34:01 AM7/15/17
to kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com
Thank you finally admitting that it really is a snipe hunt. But you want to make it personal and talk about crazy and off your meds and and paranoid...then you claimm that every public comment by every Trump functionary has been a lie...
And you accuase me of paranoia....

LOL


On Jul 15, 2017 02:28, "'Ken Newman' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition" <kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Oh, please, BK, the drip, drip is because everyone involved obfuscates and lies at every turn. Remember the history buff comment I made earlier? Where were you during Watergate? That took a couple of years to get figured out. What's your hurry? And the Democrat set up. What bullshit. If the Dems could have orchestrated that kind of event, why didn't they just go ahead and win the election? Off meds again, BK? Paranoid much? Remember, if you will, that this took place during the election campaign, not after Trump won. And how did the Dems get Jr., Jared, and Manafort to forego their campaign duties to go on a snipe hunt? Good luck getting good proof that that was what happened. I mean, not even Hannity goes that far into the weeds; and he's as crazy as anyone on TV. 
  While looking for a snippet of reality, remember that every public comment made by every Trump functionary has been a lie. That includes Trump, Jr, Jared, Manafort, Kelleyanne, all their lawyers, every person on Fox ( they don't actually lie too much; they just sit there slack jawed accepting the lies as reality). 
  What you and your fellow travelers on the right call drip, drip, drip is really just the continued revelation of more and more damning evidence of multiple crimes. And, it's all being led by the WP and NYT. Bravo for the free press. 


On Friday, July 14, 2017 at 11:49:06 PM UTC-5, Brian Kegerreis wrote:
Im starting ro wonder if thia whole thing wasn't a set up from the get go. Has anyone determined how connected this Russian lawyer is to the democrats?
I mean the drip drip drip of information just seems coordinated somehow. 

On Jul 14, 2017 23:29, "'Ken Newman' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition" <kansas-city-diversity-coalitio...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
True that, bro. But the evidence in this case, provided by Jr's own testimony, is fairly compelling. Now we find that the meeting did not have 3 Americans and a Russian, but actually 4 Russians, of varying connection to Putin's gov't. The prosecution that may or may not follow is the final determinant of guilt; but if you read the relavant statute and listen to Jr, there is not a lot of wiggle room left. 
  Every time I see and hear Jr, I can't help but agree with those that gave him the nickname Fredo . Don't get in the boat, Jr, don't get in the boat. What a douche. 

On Friday, July 14, 2017 at 10:53:47 PM UTC-5, ClayC wrote:
Ken, no bubble here. No need to convince. I did not say that it was legal. I said I'm not sure. And, as we've learned, legal or illegal doesn't always equal DOJ prosecution or not.

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Ken Newman

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Jul 15, 2017, 12:47:16 PM7/15/17
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Come up with a quote in the last month by any participant that was anywhere near the truth. Haven't heard one myself; but I haven't heard everything being said. 
As for what actually occurred in that meeting, I've never opined one way or the other. I'm sure that even you don't have enough resources to come up with the real answer. I've pointed out, if you read it, that it doesn't matter what actually happened there. The meeting was criminal. Sugar-cocaine, it's a criminal conspiracy either way. Do you know what was in the package? The paranoia is about your amazing notion that it was all put together by the Democrats. If it was, then it's a refection about how stupid Trump's team really is. A failed IQ test. But, as of now, that conspiracy exists only in your mind. 
  My critique of you is rooted in the notion of how someone with your intelligence doesn't seem much concerned about what's going on. At least be more verbal about getting to the truth; and admitting that this is a massive assault on our most basic principles. If you don't feel that way, well then........I would remain concerned. 
  84% of Republicans support Trump, and don't think much of what's unfolding. Are you amongst them? 


On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 8:34:01 AM UTC-5, Brian Kegerreis wrote:
Thank you finally admitting that it really is a snipe hunt. But you want to make it personal and talk about crazy and off your meds and and paranoid...then you claimm that every public comment by every Trump functionary has been a lie...
And you accuase me of paranoia....

LOL

On Jul 15, 2017 02:28, "'Ken Newman' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition" <kansas-city-diversity-coal...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Oh, please, BK, the drip, drip is because everyone involved obfuscates and lies at every turn. Remember the history buff comment I made earlier? Where were you during Watergate? That took a couple of years to get figured out. What's your hurry? And the Democrat set up. What bullshit. If the Dems could have orchestrated that kind of event, why didn't they just go ahead and win the election? Off meds again, BK? Paranoid much? Remember, if you will, that this took place during the election campaign, not after Trump won. And how did the Dems get Jr., Jared, and Manafort to forego their campaign duties to go on a snipe hunt? Good luck getting good proof that that was what happened. I mean, not even Hannity goes that far into the weeds; and he's as crazy as anyone on TV. 
  While looking for a snippet of reality, remember that every public comment made by every Trump functionary has been a lie. That includes Trump, Jr, Jared, Manafort, Kelleyanne, all their lawyers, every person on Fox ( they don't actually lie too much; they just sit there slack jawed accepting the lies as reality). 
  What you and your fellow travelers on the right call drip, drip, drip is really just the continued revelation of more and more damning evidence of multiple crimes. And, it's all being led by the WP and NYT. Bravo for the free press. 


On Friday, July 14, 2017 at 11:49:06 PM UTC-5, Brian Kegerreis wrote:
Im starting ro wonder if thia whole thing wasn't a set up from the get go. Has anyone determined how connected this Russian lawyer is to the democrats?
I mean the drip drip drip of information just seems coordinated somehow. 

On Jul 14, 2017 23:29, "'Ken Newman' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition" <kansas-city-diversity-coal...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
True that, bro. But the evidence in this case, provided by Jr's own testimony, is fairly compelling. Now we find that the meeting did not have 3 Americans and a Russian, but actually 4 Russians, of varying connection to Putin's gov't. The prosecution that may or may not follow is the final determinant of guilt; but if you read the relavant statute and listen to Jr, there is not a lot of wiggle room left. 
  Every time I see and hear Jr, I can't help but agree with those that gave him the nickname Fredo . Don't get in the boat, Jr, don't get in the boat. What a douche. 

On Friday, July 14, 2017 at 10:53:47 PM UTC-5, ClayC wrote:
Ken, no bubble here. No need to convince. I did not say that it was legal. I said I'm not sure. And, as we've learned, legal or illegal doesn't always equal DOJ prosecution or not.

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B Keg

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Jul 15, 2017, 2:00:57 PM7/15/17
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You're the one that made a positive claim about every utterance by every partiparticipant. I'm glad you're willing to back off of that claim. I don't think this entire debacle was dreamed up by democrats in advance as some grand conspiracy. 
I don't think the powers that be on both sides really want to go down this rabbit hole. Otherwise every photo op, every handshake and every meeting with a foreigner becomes a potential limestone. 

On Jul 15, 2017 11:47, "'Ken Newman' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition" <kansas-city-diversity-coal...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Come up with a quote in the last month by any participant that was anywhere near the truth. Haven't heard one myself; but I haven't heard everything being said. 
As for what actually occurred in that meeting, I've never opined one way or the other. I'm sure that even you don't have enough resources to come up with the real answer. I've pointed out, if you read it, that it doesn't matter what actually happened there. The meeting was criminal. Sugar-cocaine, it's a criminal conspiracy either way. Do you know what was in the package? The paranoia is about your amazing notion that it was all put together by the Democrats. If it was, then it's a refection about how stupid Trump's team really is. A failed IQ test. But, as of now, that conspiracy exists only in your mind. 
  My critique of you is rooted in the notion of how someone with your intelligence doesn't seem much concerned about what's going on. At least be more verbal about getting to the truth; and admitting that this is a massive assault on our most basic principles. If you don't feel that way, well then........I would remain concerned. 
  84% of Republicans support Trump, and don't think much of what's unfolding. Are you amongst them? 

On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 8:34:01 AM UTC-5, Brian Kegerreis wrote:
Thank you finally admitting that it really is a snipe hunt. But you want to make it personal and talk about crazy and off your meds and and paranoid...then you claimm that every public comment by every Trump functionary has been a lie...
And you accuase me of paranoia....

LOL

On Jul 15, 2017 02:28, "'Ken Newman' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition" <kansas-city-diversity-coalitio...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Oh, please, BK, the drip, drip is because everyone involved obfuscates and lies at every turn. Remember the history buff comment I made earlier? Where were you during Watergate? That took a couple of years to get figured out. What's your hurry? And the Democrat set up. What bullshit. If the Dems could have orchestrated that kind of event, why didn't they just go ahead and win the election? Off meds again, BK? Paranoid much? Remember, if you will, that this took place during the election campaign, not after Trump won. And how did the Dems get Jr., Jared, and Manafort to forego their campaign duties to go on a snipe hunt? Good luck getting good proof that that was what happened. I mean, not even Hannity goes that far into the weeds; and he's as crazy as anyone on TV. 
  While looking for a snippet of reality, remember that every public comment made by every Trump functionary has been a lie. That includes Trump, Jr, Jared, Manafort, Kelleyanne, all their lawyers, every person on Fox ( they don't actually lie too much; they just sit there slack jawed accepting the lies as reality). 
  What you and your fellow travelers on the right call drip, drip, drip is really just the continued revelation of more and more damning evidence of multiple crimes. And, it's all being led by the WP and NYT. Bravo for the free press. 


On Friday, July 14, 2017 at 11:49:06 PM UTC-5, Brian Kegerreis wrote:
Im starting ro wonder if thia whole thing wasn't a set up from the get go. Has anyone determined how connected this Russian lawyer is to the democrats?
I mean the drip drip drip of information just seems coordinated somehow. 

On Jul 14, 2017 23:29, "'Ken Newman' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition" <kansas-city-diversity-coalitio...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
True that, bro. But the evidence in this case, provided by Jr's own testimony, is fairly compelling. Now we find that the meeting did not have 3 Americans and a Russian, but actually 4 Russians, of varying connection to Putin's gov't. The prosecution that may or may not follow is the final determinant of guilt; but if you read the relavant statute and listen to Jr, there is not a lot of wiggle room left. 
  Every time I see and hear Jr, I can't help but agree with those that gave him the nickname Fredo . Don't get in the boat, Jr, don't get in the boat. What a douche. 

On Friday, July 14, 2017 at 10:53:47 PM UTC-5, ClayC wrote:
Ken, no bubble here. No need to convince. I did not say that it was legal. I said I'm not sure. And, as we've learned, legal or illegal doesn't always equal DOJ prosecution or not.

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Ken Newman

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Jul 15, 2017, 3:07:39 PM7/15/17
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Not backing down from what I said. Every utterance by Trump's folks, as far as I know, has been a lie. Find an exception to this rule. Until then.........
This was not a photo op. This was not a couple of Americans sampling Russian vodka. It was several people in the Trump campaign planning and carrying out a meeting with Russian operatives with the stated intent of getting negative information on Hillary. That is not nothing. 
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to kansas-city-diversity-coalition+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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B Keg

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Jul 15, 2017, 3:13:21 PM7/15/17
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Yeah it really is nothing. Happens all the time. 

On Jul 15, 2017 14:07, "'Ken Newman' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition" <kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Not backing down from what I said. Every utterance by Trump's folks, as far as I know, has been a lie. Find an exception to this rule. Until then.........
This was not a photo op. This was not a couple of Americans sampling Russian vodka. It was several people in the Trump campaign planning and carrying out a meeting with Russian operatives with the stated intent of getting negative information on Hillary. That is not nothing. 

On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 1:00:57 PM UTC-5, Brian Kegerreis wrote:
You're the one that made a positive claim about every utterance by every partiparticipant. I'm glad you're willing to back off of that claim. I don't think this entire debacle was dreamed up by democrats in advance as some grand conspiracy. 
I don't think the powers that be on both sides really want to go down this rabbit hole. Otherwise every photo op, every handshake and every meeting with a foreigner becomes a potential limestone. 
On Jul 15, 2017 11:47, "'Ken Newman' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition" <kansas-city-diversity-coalitio...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Come up with a quote in the last month by any participant that was anywhere near the truth. Haven't heard one myself; but I haven't heard everything being said. 
As for what actually occurred in that meeting, I've never opined one way or the other. I'm sure that even you don't have enough resources to come up with the real answer. I've pointed out, if you read it, that it doesn't matter what actually happened there. The meeting was criminal. Sugar-cocaine, it's a criminal conspiracy either way. Do you know what was in the package? The paranoia is about your amazing notion that it was all put together by the Democrats. If it was, then it's a refection about how stupid Trump's team really is. A failed IQ test. But, as of now, that conspiracy exists only in your mind. 
  My critique of you is rooted in the notion of how someone with your intelligence doesn't seem much concerned about what's going on. At least be more verbal about getting to the truth; and admitting that this is a massive assault on our most basic principles. If you don't feel that way, well then........I would remain concerned. 
  84% of Republicans support Trump, and don't think much of what's unfolding. Are you amongst them? 

On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 8:34:01 AM UTC-5, Brian Kegerreis wrote:
Thank you finally admitting that it really is a snipe hunt. But you want to make it personal and talk about crazy and off your meds and and paranoid...then you claimm that every public comment by every Trump functionary has been a lie...
And you accuase me of paranoia....

LOL

On Jul 15, 2017 02:28, "'Ken Newman' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition" <kansas-city-diversity-coalitio...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Oh, please, BK, the drip, drip is because everyone involved obfuscates and lies at every turn. Remember the history buff comment I made earlier? Where were you during Watergate? That took a couple of years to get figured out. What's your hurry? And the Democrat set up. What bullshit. If the Dems could have orchestrated that kind of event, why didn't they just go ahead and win the election? Off meds again, BK? Paranoid much? Remember, if you will, that this took place during the election campaign, not after Trump won. And how did the Dems get Jr., Jared, and Manafort to forego their campaign duties to go on a snipe hunt? Good luck getting good proof that that was what happened. I mean, not even Hannity goes that far into the weeds; and he's as crazy as anyone on TV. 
  While looking for a snippet of reality, remember that every public comment made by every Trump functionary has been a lie. That includes Trump, Jr, Jared, Manafort, Kelleyanne, all their lawyers, every person on Fox ( they don't actually lie too much; they just sit there slack jawed accepting the lies as reality). 
  What you and your fellow travelers on the right call drip, drip, drip is really just the continued revelation of more and more damning evidence of multiple crimes. And, it's all being led by the WP and NYT. Bravo for the free press. 


On Friday, July 14, 2017 at 11:49:06 PM UTC-5, Brian Kegerreis wrote:
Im starting ro wonder if thia whole thing wasn't a set up from the get go. Has anyone determined how connected this Russian lawyer is to the democrats?
I mean the drip drip drip of information just seems coordinated somehow. 

On Jul 14, 2017 23:29, "'Ken Newman' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition" <kansas-city-diversity-coalitio...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
True that, bro. But the evidence in this case, provided by Jr's own testimony, is fairly compelling. Now we find that the meeting did not have 3 Americans and a Russian, but actually 4 Russians, of varying connection to Putin's gov't. The prosecution that may or may not follow is the final determinant of guilt; but if you read the relavant statute and listen to Jr, there is not a lot of wiggle room left. 
  Every time I see and hear Jr, I can't help but agree with those that gave him the nickname Fredo . Don't get in the boat, Jr, don't get in the boat. What a douche. 

On Friday, July 14, 2017 at 10:53:47 PM UTC-5, ClayC wrote:
Ken, no bubble here. No need to convince. I did not say that it was legal. I said I'm not sure. And, as we've learned, legal or illegal doesn't always equal DOJ prosecution or not.

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Ken Newman

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Jul 15, 2017, 6:33:38 PM7/15/17
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Happened when Al Gore got Bush's cheat sheet on the debate. He certainly capitalized on it. NOT. Turned it over to the FBI, having recognized it as potentially illegal. The moral bar has been lowered to the point where Trump and his acolytes can come to govern our country. 


On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 2:13:21 PM UTC-5, Brian Kegerreis wrote:
Yeah it really is nothing. Happens all the time. 
On Jul 15, 2017 14:07, "'Ken Newman' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition" <kansas-city-diversity-coal...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Not backing down from what I said. Every utterance by Trump's folks, as far as I know, has been a lie. Find an exception to this rule. Until then.........
This was not a photo op. This was not a couple of Americans sampling Russian vodka. It was several people in the Trump campaign planning and carrying out a meeting with Russian operatives with the stated intent of getting negative information on Hillary. That is not nothing. 

On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 1:00:57 PM UTC-5, Brian Kegerreis wrote:
You're the one that made a positive claim about every utterance by every partiparticipant. I'm glad you're willing to back off of that claim. I don't think this entire debacle was dreamed up by democrats in advance as some grand conspiracy. 
I don't think the powers that be on both sides really want to go down this rabbit hole. Otherwise every photo op, every handshake and every meeting with a foreigner becomes a potential limestone. 
On Jul 15, 2017 11:47, "'Ken Newman' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition" <kansas-city-diversity-coal...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Come up with a quote in the last month by any participant that was anywhere near the truth. Haven't heard one myself; but I haven't heard everything being said. 
As for what actually occurred in that meeting, I've never opined one way or the other. I'm sure that even you don't have enough resources to come up with the real answer. I've pointed out, if you read it, that it doesn't matter what actually happened there. The meeting was criminal. Sugar-cocaine, it's a criminal conspiracy either way. Do you know what was in the package? The paranoia is about your amazing notion that it was all put together by the Democrats. If it was, then it's a refection about how stupid Trump's team really is. A failed IQ test. But, as of now, that conspiracy exists only in your mind. 
  My critique of you is rooted in the notion of how someone with your intelligence doesn't seem much concerned about what's going on. At least be more verbal about getting to the truth; and admitting that this is a massive assault on our most basic principles. If you don't feel that way, well then........I would remain concerned. 
  84% of Republicans support Trump, and don't think much of what's unfolding. Are you amongst them? 

On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 8:34:01 AM UTC-5, Brian Kegerreis wrote:
Thank you finally admitting that it really is a snipe hunt. But you want to make it personal and talk about crazy and off your meds and and paranoid...then you claimm that every public comment by every Trump functionary has been a lie...
And you accuase me of paranoia....

LOL

On Jul 15, 2017 02:28, "'Ken Newman' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition" <kansas-city-diversity-coal...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Oh, please, BK, the drip, drip is because everyone involved obfuscates and lies at every turn. Remember the history buff comment I made earlier? Where were you during Watergate? That took a couple of years to get figured out. What's your hurry? And the Democrat set up. What bullshit. If the Dems could have orchestrated that kind of event, why didn't they just go ahead and win the election? Off meds again, BK? Paranoid much? Remember, if you will, that this took place during the election campaign, not after Trump won. And how did the Dems get Jr., Jared, and Manafort to forego their campaign duties to go on a snipe hunt? Good luck getting good proof that that was what happened. I mean, not even Hannity goes that far into the weeds; and he's as crazy as anyone on TV. 
  While looking for a snippet of reality, remember that every public comment made by every Trump functionary has been a lie. That includes Trump, Jr, Jared, Manafort, Kelleyanne, all their lawyers, every person on Fox ( they don't actually lie too much; they just sit there slack jawed accepting the lies as reality). 
  What you and your fellow travelers on the right call drip, drip, drip is really just the continued revelation of more and more damning evidence of multiple crimes. And, it's all being led by the WP and NYT. Bravo for the free press. 


On Friday, July 14, 2017 at 11:49:06 PM UTC-5, Brian Kegerreis wrote:
Im starting ro wonder if thia whole thing wasn't a set up from the get go. Has anyone determined how connected this Russian lawyer is to the democrats?
I mean the drip drip drip of information just seems coordinated somehow. 

On Jul 14, 2017 23:29, "'Ken Newman' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition" <kansas-city-diversity-coal...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
True that, bro. But the evidence in this case, provided by Jr's own testimony, is fairly compelling. Now we find that the meeting did not have 3 Americans and a Russian, but actually 4 Russians, of varying connection to Putin's gov't. The prosecution that may or may not follow is the final determinant of guilt; but if you read the relavant statute and listen to Jr, there is not a lot of wiggle room left. 
  Every time I see and hear Jr, I can't help but agree with those that gave him the nickname Fredo . Don't get in the boat, Jr, don't get in the boat. What a douche. 

On Friday, July 14, 2017 at 10:53:47 PM UTC-5, ClayC wrote:
Ken, no bubble here. No need to convince. I did not say that it was legal. I said I'm not sure. And, as we've learned, legal or illegal doesn't always equal DOJ prosecution or not.

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B Keg

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Jul 15, 2017, 7:08:59 PM7/15/17
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So Gore a lawyer and lifetime politician thought it might be illegal.....
Trump JR, is he lawyer? Is he a seasoned politician?
Let's not even bring up the fact that restricting speech is a violation of rge first amendment. 
Now of you want to ding him on not disclosing the meetings on security forms well I guess that's ok, in fact you could probably could restrict Hillary and her crew access and Jr's with the same memo.......

On Jul 15, 2017 17:33, "'Ken Newman' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition" <kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Happened when Al Gore got Bush's cheat sheet on the debate. He certainly capitalized on it. NOT. Turned it over to the FBI, having recognized it as potentially illegal. The moral bar has been lowered to the point where Trump and his acolytes can come to govern our country. 

On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 2:13:21 PM UTC-5, Brian Kegerreis wrote:
Yeah it really is nothing. Happens all the time. 
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Ken Newman

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Jul 15, 2017, 9:47:59 PM7/15/17
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The security form violation was Jared's; and he's like the shadow POTUS. You might want to consider that a bit of a problem. As in, the guy closest to the President committed a federal crime. Nothing to see here. As for Hillary, talking about her at this point is like pointing out Idi Amin's flaws. A little late in the game. But, you-who-is not-a-conservative continues to do a great imitation of Sean Hannity. Use the word "nothingburger" and your journey to the Dark Side will be complete. 
  As a person of law enforcement, it does not need to be mentioned that ignorance of a crime is not an excuse. But you knew that already. If that's the Trump team defense, it does not speak well of the team. "Hi, we're Trump and his minions. We're so fucking dumb that we don't even know federal election laws. But, we're planning on being your new leadership team". Make American great again. 

On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 6:08:59 PM UTC-5, Brian Kegerreis wrote:
So Gore a lawyer and lifetime politician thought it might be illegal.....
Trump JR, is he lawyer? Is he a seasoned politician?
Let's not even bring up the fact that restricting speech is a violation of rge first amendment. 
Now of you want to ding him on not disclosing the meetings on security forms well I guess that's ok, in fact you could probably could restrict Hillary and her crew access and Jr's with the same memo.......
On Jul 15, 2017 17:33, "'Ken Newman' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition" <kansas-city-diversity-coal...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Happened when Al Gore got Bush's cheat sheet on the debate. He certainly capitalized on it. NOT. Turned it over to the FBI, having recognized it as potentially illegal. The moral bar has been lowered to the point where Trump and his acolytes can come to govern our country. 

On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 2:13:21 PM UTC-5, Brian Kegerreis wrote:
Yeah it really is nothing. Happens all the time. 
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B Keg

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Jul 16, 2017, 6:34:12 AM7/16/17
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Omg, journey to the dark side? 
I guess you forgot about the force being out of balance master Jedi.....but anyways yes ignorance of the law is no excuse, but the more I think about it the more clear it is that your side's  heart is so full of hate you can't see clearly. 
In fact so full of hate you'd just as soon burn down the country to get rid of him. 

You're basically saying people can't talk or exchange ideas or get information. Th ats what your angry about. Someone tried to listen to something someone else said. Now granted there are a few exceptions that allow for prosecution of 1st amendment protected things such as shouting fire or making or transfering child porn. You're basically saying that what Jr. Did was akin to seeking out child porn and frankly I don't agree. 

On Jul 15, 2017 20:48, "'Ken Newman' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition" <kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
The security form violation was Jared's; and he's like the shadow POTUS. You might want to consider that a bit of a problem. As in, the guy closest to the President committed a federal crime. Nothing to see here. As for Hillary, talking about her at this point is like pointing out Idi Amin's flaws. A little late in the game. But, you-who-is not-a-conservative continues to do a great imitation of Sean Hannity. Use the word "nothingburger" and your journey to the Dark Side will be complete. 
  As a person of law enforcement, it does not need to be mentioned that ignorance of a crime is not an excuse. But you knew that already. If that's the Trump team defense, it does not speak well of the team. "Hi, we're Trump and his minions. We're so fucking dumb that we don't even know federal election laws. But, we're planning on being your new leadership team". Make American great again. 

On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 6:08:59 PM UTC-5, Brian Kegerreis wrote:
So Gore a lawyer and lifetime politician thought it might be illegal.....
Trump JR, is he lawyer? Is he a seasoned politician?
Let's not even bring up the fact that restricting speech is a violation of rge first amendment. 
Now of you want to ding him on not disclosing the meetings on security forms well I guess that's ok, in fact you could probably could restrict Hillary and her crew access and Jr's with the same memo.......
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Ken Newman

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Jul 16, 2017, 11:31:07 PM7/16/17
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I'm not angry, except that WtP elected a mafia family to the White House. It matters not a whit what you or I feel about laws.  The laws are codified so that we don't have to rely on memory or feelings to know what they say. Here's a link that says that the issue is certainly not as clear-cut as you suggest. There are, of course, many people chiming in with their opinions. You can even listen to Trump's lawyer's opinion, which is very much like yours. But, there are legal experts from all over the country who beg to differ. As for burning down the country, that is easiest one of the stupidest things I've ever read. This nation is bigger than any one person, or any one criminal. You seem to have dramatic amnesia about Watergate. Nixon gone, USA, moving right along. Trump's departure wouldn't cause even so much as a hiccup. The exception likely being the stock market taking a small dive. Such distrust on your part about the durability of our institutions. Tsk, tsk. And BTW, I'm not asking the country to be burned down. It's already on fire (even by your words, "dumpster fire"). I'm just opining on much smoke and flame there is. I do, however, maintain the opinion I gave months ago that Trump is uniquely unqualified for this office. I have seen nothing to make me want to change my opinion. In fact, my opinion gets solidified every time Trump or one of his minions opens their mouth. Did you see Kelleyanne with the cue cards? Doesn't that embarrass you just a little? 



On Sunday, July 16, 2017 at 5:34:12 AM UTC-5, Brian Kegerreis wrote:
Omg, journey to the dark side? 
I guess you forgot about the force being out of balance master Jedi.....but anyways yes ignorance of the law is no excuse, but the more I think about it the more clear it is that your side's  heart is so full of hate you can't see clearly. 
In fact so full of hate you'd just as soon burn down the country to get rid of him. 

You're basically saying people can't talk or exchange ideas or get information. Th ats what your angry about. Someone tried to listen to something someone else said. Now granted there are a few exceptions that allow for prosecution of 1st amendment protected things such as shouting fire or making or transfering child porn. You're basically saying that what Jr. Did was akin to seeking out child porn and frankly I don't agree. 
On Jul 15, 2017 20:48, "'Ken Newman' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition" <kansas-city-diversity-coal...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
The security form violation was Jared's; and he's like the shadow POTUS. You might want to consider that a bit of a problem. As in, the guy closest to the President committed a federal crime. Nothing to see here. As for Hillary, talking about her at this point is like pointing out Idi Amin's flaws. A little late in the game. But, you-who-is not-a-conservative continues to do a great imitation of Sean Hannity. Use the word "nothingburger" and your journey to the Dark Side will be complete. 
  As a person of law enforcement, it does not need to be mentioned that ignorance of a crime is not an excuse. But you knew that already. If that's the Trump team defense, it does not speak well of the team. "Hi, we're Trump and his minions. We're so fucking dumb that we don't even know federal election laws. But, we're planning on being your new leadership team". Make American great again. 

On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 6:08:59 PM UTC-5, Brian Kegerreis wrote:
So Gore a lawyer and lifetime politician thought it might be illegal.....
Trump JR, is he lawyer? Is he a seasoned politician?
Let's not even bring up the fact that restricting speech is a violation of rge first amendment. 
Now of you want to ding him on not disclosing the meetings on security forms well I guess that's ok, in fact you could probably could restrict Hillary and her crew access and Jr's with the same memo.......
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GMoney

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Jul 17, 2017, 8:05:28 AM7/17/17
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We've had some dumb posts on here.....and this one is up there with them, or down there with them, if you will.

Is you're latest wiggle that hey, Trump Jr. isn't quite as lawerly and politiciany as Mr. Gore, so let's forgive him for not knowing what's legal and illegal when it comes to a presidential campaign???

WHY DO YOU FEEL THE NEED TO DEFEND TRUMP!?!?!?!? Goddamnit Brian, what is your major malfunction? 

You are either lying to US, or YOURSELF, when you claim not to be a Trump supporter, then spend every word on this list doing exactly that.


On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 6:08 PM, B Keg <kegb...@gmail.com> wrote:
So Gore a lawyer and lifetime politician thought it might be illegal.....
Trump JR, is he lawyer? Is he a seasoned politician?
Let's not even bring up the fact that restricting speech is a violation of rge first amendment. 
Now of you want to ding him on not disclosing the meetings on security forms well I guess that's ok, in fact you could probably could restrict Hillary and her crew access and Jr's with the same memo.......

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Ken Newman

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Jul 17, 2017, 6:54:11 PM7/17/17
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Thanks, G, for filling in what I missed. Also note that JFK has a similar opportunity to get dirt on Nixon, and passed. And, as I recall, that was an extremely contested presidential contest, one where an edge really could have mattered. 
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Ken Newman

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Jul 31, 2017, 9:35:22 PM7/31/17
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I know this thread is old; but there is more unraveling going on. Turns out that Trump Jr's letter explaining (falsely) what the meeting was about was dictated by Papa Trump. That's right folks; after conferring with his staff, he decided that lying was better than telling the truth. 
  The central lesson from Watergate was that the coverup is always worse than the crime. In this instance, they may be equally bad. The crime could be a felony, in some imaginary world, treason. The lie ain't any better. Or as Fox News and Kelleyanne might say, a nothingburger. Or as Trump's lawyer (don't recall which one) would say, fake news. Of course, after saying that i'ts fake news, he also said it's of no consequence. That's an interesting Freudian slip. Why would people make up lies if the issue was of no consequence? Oops.

David Fairchild

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Aug 1, 2017, 9:57:16 AM8/1/17
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Yeah, I have only been paying attention very peripherally, but this is beginning to sound like Watergate-esque cover-upping, maybe... 

Ken Newman

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Aug 1, 2017, 5:50:02 PM8/1/17
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Get with it, Dave. One troglodyte (G) is enough. How about the Scaramucci hiring/firing? The next appointee might be able to measure his time in office with an oven timer. Or, as Trump is happy to explain, "No chaos in the WH". (Direct quote). 

Ken Newman

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Aug 1, 2017, 10:33:46 PM8/1/17
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Dave, I'm going to help you catch up on the issues surrounding this administration. Every statement made by Trump is a provable lie. Every statement made by a relative of his is a provable lie. In regards to this meeting, all those present first denied it took place, then admitted it took place but was about adoption issues and not the campaign. Trump admitted that the meeting took place a couple of weeks ago, but called it nothing. Twelve days LATER, he said the meeting never took place. That's the story in a nutshell. The entire Trump inner circle is perfectly happy to go on the air (Fox) and tell verifiable lies. Of course Fox does not challenge anything they are told.
  How can you be sure that these people lie? Because they contradict themselves in due time. In Trump's case, due time can be as little as 12 hours, usually a couple of days. 
  Quiz: who said, "this administration is like the Biblical flood, and we should begin to build an ark"? 
  Answer, Jeff Flake, very conservative Republican senator from Arizona. 
  When this is what your party has to say about you, that's trouble. 
  Clear enough? 

David Fairchild

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Aug 2, 2017, 10:03:51 AM8/2/17
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Ken,

Thank you for the catch up. This is all so juicy.

And from a libertarian POV, this is fantastic. The more Washington focuses on inside the beltway wrongdoings and in-fighting, and less on imposing new law on the rest of us, the better.

Here's to so much bickering that that Congress fails to address the yet-another pending debt ceiling doomsday by the supposed end-of-the-world date late next month. 

Ken Newman

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Aug 2, 2017, 8:50:46 PM8/2/17
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I theorize that this govt's inability to do anything is why the Dow is doing so well. Of course, Wall Street is saturated with white collar crooks who don't want too much scrutiny. Good news bad news. Personally, I'd overlook Elliott Spitzer's dalliances and appoint him as chief watchdog over Wall Street. He did a pretty damn good job before, even while spending a fair amount of time, energy, and presumably money on prostitutes. IMO, Wall Street's generally criminal behavior does them a lot more good than it does me. 
  Are you rooting for gov't to not raise the debt ceiling? Can you explain what we might expect from such an action (inaction). 

ClayC

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Aug 2, 2017, 9:33:45 PM8/2/17
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I'm amazed how raising the debt ceiling has become an annual expectation of normal business. Imagine if I could do that without consequence with my family budget!

If the ceiling isn't raised...
1. Pundits and politicians will complain that Congress's inability to raise the ceiling is stopping progress, hurting people and basically a massive sin.
2. The government will make a big show of not having enough money to serve the people by shutting down Natonal Parks and tourist attractions.
3. People will ignore sound economic and common sense. They will cry like babies which will make elected officials squirm. Eventually same officials will cave and raise the ceiling. Kicking the proverbial can down the road.

David Fairchild

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Aug 2, 2017, 10:54:14 PM8/2/17
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Ken, the salacious distractions in Washington may be supporting the stock market climb, but the actual cause is clear. It is a byproduct of monetary policy. It will correct. Also the sun will rise.

I am certainly for a debt ceiling fight, though there is a better chance of Helen Keller finding Waldo than there is of meaningful, lasting shutdown. I do think this calamity could be a catalyst that causes the stock market to deflate 15 to 20 percent before returning to upward movement.

Ken Newman

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Aug 2, 2017, 11:14:34 PM8/2/17
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Are you buying put options, based on the 15-20% correction? Or are you blowing smoke up my skirt like every other prognosticator? 

David Fairchild

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Aug 2, 2017, 11:26:12 PM8/2/17
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I am a dollar cost averaging, indexing investor with (I hope) a fairly long time horizon until needing funds access. I generally don't speculate. Though if the Dow remains near 22k the third third week of Sept. and there is no debt deal in sight, then I may be quite tempted to buy some SPXU.

Ken Newman

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Aug 2, 2017, 11:58:35 PM8/2/17
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I usually take a long horizon, diversified approach. My broker has never been happy with market timing. Of course, my portfolio took a massive hit in 2000 and again in 2008. (If I got my dates right). I'd like to avoid massive "corrections" to my portfolio at my age. 
  My Dad is 92, and still invests in the market almost exclusively. He uses the Fisher company. They are 100% in the market at all times. His investment horizon isn't that long any longer; but he persists, especially with interest rates essentially zero. I can usually convince my broker to at least shuffle things around a little if trouble looms. We've never bought puts; but it looks like a reasonable option (!) at certain times. 

B Keg

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Aug 3, 2017, 6:33:32 AM8/3/17
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Is the stock market a leading indicator?

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David Fairchild

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Aug 3, 2017, 9:57:26 AM8/3/17
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Buy high sell low, right?

The bearish, leveraged ETFs may be an easier way to bet on a downturn without having to go crazy with puts and options, etc.. You can put in a stop if you want to limit the damage potential, just like any other ticker symbol you might buy.

Ken Newman

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Aug 3, 2017, 11:50:08 AM8/3/17
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Yeah, we did stop loss placements; they're free. Maybe a small ETF that bets on market downturns is a good idea. We have in the past owned a stock that bought and sold positions on the value of the dollar and bonds. It's purpose was to provide balance in the case of a down market. Unfortunately, it stays flat in an up market, and this has been a drag on the portfolio for several years. I think we dumped it. At some time soon, such devices may become a good idea again. 
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