White Christians Who Voted for Donald Trump: Fix This. Now. | john pavlovitz

[CL]

White (and Black) Christians (and Jews) Who Voted for Donald Trump: Fix This. Now.

NOVEMBER 10, 2016 / JOHN PAVLOVITZ

We Christians like to talk about Hell a lot, so let’s talk about Hell a little.

Yesterday, in the very first few daylight hours after Donald Trump’s election victory it began:

Near San Francisco, a home in Noe Valley flew a nazi flag where kids walk by to get to school.
A white middle school student brought a Trump sign to school and told a black classmate it was time for him to get “back in place”.
A gay New York City man getting on a bus was told that he should “Enjoy the concentration camps, faggot!”
The NYU Muslim Students Association found the word “Trump!”scrawled on the door of their prayer room.
A female seminary student was stopped at a coffee shop with the words, “Smile sweetheart, we beat the cunt.”
Parents of children of color spent the day picking up their children early from elementary, middle, and high schools across the country because they were inundated with slurs and harassment and unable to study.
A group of Hispanic kids in Raleigh were taunted by white children, telling them they were “going back to Mexico.”

This is the personal Hell we’ve unleashed upon our people this week. 

And if you’re a white Christian and you voted for Donald Trump: You need to fix this. Now.

You comprise the lion’s share of Trump’s elevation to the highest office of our country.
You knew exactly who this man was while you held your noses and covered your eyes and endorsed him anyway.
You are fully responsible for the flood of personal sewage now engulfing children and adults of color, those in the LGBTQ community, those in the Muslim community.
And you, white Christian, better get you spiritual shIt together and figure out how you’re going make this right.

Let’s be clear about something, brethren:

This is not the time to appeal to minorities and marginalized communities to “come together in unity” with white people right now.That was Hillary Clinton’s message, and even though she had the track record and the experience and the wherewithal to make it happen—you passed on it. Instead you chose the guy who’s entire resume is about supremacy and privilege, whose entire campaign was about the fear of the other (the other in this case, being anyone not white, straight, and Christian). You chose the guy endorsed by the KKK. Youdid.

You need to understand this.
Oppressed people aren’t obliged to make nice with their oppressors.
The bullied don’t owe anything to the bullies.
Victims don’t have to make their assailants feel better.
Young children of color aren’t responsible to educate racist children—or their parents.

In the 25th chapter of Matthew’s Gospel, Jesus tells his listeners, that those who followed after him, those who would bear his name are to love the least; not those who are less-than, but those who are treated as less-than. He then paints the picture of the eternal suffering Christians are always so willing to condemn others to, and he says that it will be their lack of love and compassion and mercy for these most vulnerable, most hurting people—that will condemn them.

White Christians and the white Church, especially if you voted for Donald Trump: this is all on you.

Your pastors need to speak clearly and explicitly into this, now.
Your church websites and social media pages need to address this harassment and bullying and terrorizing, now.
You need to talk to your white children and teach them how not not be horrible to other kids, and how to stand up to those who are being horrible, now.
You need to talk to your kid’s coaches and to your midweek Bible Study and to your co-workers and your church staff and your gun club—and you need to call this poison out, now.
White churches, this Sunday, your only sermon should be the one that reminds your white members what the parable of the Good Samaritan was compelling followers of Jesus to be: radically merciful when everyone else looked the other way.
You need to reach out to your neighbors and coworkers and classmates and social media friends who are part of marginalized communities and reassure them, listen to them, care for them, be Jesus to them.

If not, no matter how you rationalize it or try to squeeze your way out of it, the personal Hell so many people are living in and will continue to live in over the next four years, will be one of your design.
It will be your shared sin.
The blood will be on your hands.

This is your place and time in history to show people what Jesus is supposed to look like.
This is your urgent moment to make a testimony that is Christlike or to willingly and openly deny Christ.
This is your crucial opportunity to be the peacemakers, white Christians; not by compelling the marginalized to be more understanding or to ask them to come to the table with those who are injuring them—but by speaking directly into the face of those inflicting the injury and demanding their repentance.

Now you can dismiss these stories or diminish their collateral damage or accuse the victims of exaggeration. You can claim that things will die down once these people “get this out of their systems”.
You can turn away and logout and retreat into the cloistered security of your white Christian bubble of privilege.

Or, you can step out into the school hallways and bus stops and coffee shops and Twitter feeds and bring the bold, loving, redemptive presence of Jesus you’re always claiming you want to be in the world. You can actually step into Hell and bring the freakin’ love of God.

At times like these, Christians like to smile sweetly and say, “God is in control.”
No. God is not in control.
God didn’t vote for Donald Trump, you did.
Stop passing the buck to God.
God isn’t defacing prayer rooms.
God isn’t taunting gay teenagers.
God is not bullying kids on buses.
God isn’t threatening Muslim families.
White Christians are.
You are in control of this. You have pulpits and pews and a voice and influence and social media, so get to work. 

You need to do some knee to the dirt exploratory surgery with your Maker and figure out how you’re going to respond to this—and then respond.

For the love of God and for the love of the people you claim that God so loves—fix this.

Now.

[David Fairchild]

Hmmm. What is the fix exactly?

[GMoney]

You can't fix stupid. 

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[David Fairchild]

G, I was worried about you. You seemed conspicuously quiet last week.

[B Keg]

The Nazi flag flyer was anti Trump
Nothing to fix here. Yes there are a few dozen sadly insane neo nazis fuktards who just need a hug from a liberal while there are tens of thousands of equally sadly insane sufferers of TARD or Trump acceptance resistance disease who just need to grow up and move out mommies basement and get a job so they can pay of their student loans for the useless social justice warrior bachelor degree the got. David Duke can kiss my ass. The best thing to do with those types is to simply kill them by ignoring them.

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[GMoney]

I lost my country and haven't quite figured out what to do about it.  I won't be discussing politics. 

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[David Fairchild]

I think if the problems are as bad as the author contends, then they ought to propose a fix?

Is the author suggesting some long term plan to fix it? Or is he suggesting something radical must be done now?

For one: He says we must speak to our children now not to be horrible. To that I say F/O, Mr. writer. I will proudly count my children among the most caring/empathetically people I know. And I take zero credit for that. For whatever reason, they both have very giving and humble spirits -- far, far more than me. The only lack if humility I see is in this letter.

On Monday, November 14, 2016 at 8:31:03 AM UTC-6, Brian Kegerreis wrote:

The Nazi flag flyer was anti Trump
Nothing to fix here. Yes there are a few dozen sadly insane neo nazis fuktards who just need a hug from a liberal while there are tens of thousands of equally sadly insane sufferers of TARD or Trump acceptance resistance disease who just need to grow up and move out mommies basement and get a job so they can pay of their student loans for the useless social justice warrior bachelor degree the got. David Duke can kiss my ass. The best thing to do with those types is to simply kill them by ignoring them.

[ClayC]

Craig,

Christians — those who are actually committed to following Christ, not those who just use the term as a label — are doing something to "fix' this. There is a plan. A method. A process. Since we are people, we often flub it up. We don't execute it perfectly. But it's there.

The plan is to preach, teach and live out the truth, love, grace and character of Jesus. People's hearts and minds must be changed. Transformed. Only then does the hatred stop. The bigotry. The injustice.

The government can't "fix" this. The government's role here is to make sure the church, Christians, are fee to do their job without persecution. 

This can be fixed. One heart. One person at a time.

The good news is that it is.

Clay

[GMoney]

You're failing, miserably, one heart at a time. 

[David Fairchild]

By what measure?

[CL]

You are a significant part of the problem with the hatred that you spew in these posts.

 

Craig Lubow

913-963-2534 (cell)

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From: B Keg <kegb...@gmail.com>
To: kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: White Christians Who Voted for Donald Trump: Fix This. Now. | john pavlovitz

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[CL]

By measuring the expansion of hate groups in America.  This is the first time in my voting years, maybe in my lifetime, that the KKK endorsed a president.  Think about what that says.

 

Craig Lubow

913-963-2534 (cell)

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From: David Fairchild <dfairc...@gmail.com>
To: Kansas City Diversity Coalition <kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: White Christians Who Voted for Donald Trump: Fix This. Now. | john pavlovitz

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[GMoney]

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 10:01 AM, David Fairchild <dfairc...@gmail.com> wrote:

By what measure?

Our new Christian President, just elected by all us good hearted CHristians, has issued his first very Christ-like decree......he's going to jail or deport about 3 million illegal immigrants.

Just as he promised. I'm sure my Christian family is celebrating this decision. 

BUILD THE WALL!!!!

   - Jesus Christ, 2016

[David Fairchild]

Agreed. That is a terrible decree.

I doubt it will happen. We'll see.

[GMoney]

Whether it actually happens or not is beside the point.

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[David Fairchild]

What is the point?

[GMoney]

Americans are getting worse, not better, on the scale of 0 to Christ. 

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 10:38 AM, David Fairchild <dfairc...@gmail.com> wrote:

What is the point?

On Monday, November 14, 2016 at 10:33:46 AM UTC-6, G wrote:

Whether it actually happens or not is beside the point.

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 10:24 AM, David Fairchild <dfairc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Agreed. That is a terrible decree.

I doubt it will happen. We'll see.

On Monday, November 14, 2016 at 10:16:11 AM UTC-6, G wrote:

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 10:01 AM, David Fairchild <dfairc...@gmail.com> wrote:

By what measure?

Our new Christian President, just elected by all us good hearted CHristians, has issued his first very Christ-like decree......he's going to jail or deport about 3 million illegal immigrants.

Just as he promised. I'm sure my Christian family is celebrating this decision. 

BUILD THE WALL!!!!

   - Jesus Christ, 2016

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[ClayC]

Come on. Your not going to characterize Trump's failures and flaws as Christianity. That's classic straw man. 

Craig's article demanded that Christians "fix" the ills of this world. I answered it with the plan. Unfortunately, that plan has not been as successful in America the past few years as it once was. That is partially because the church has dropped the ball and gotten off track, focused on the wrong things. It also has been influenced by a cultural push to relegate God to the back seat of the bus.

In contrast, Christianity continues to grow "one heart at a time" in other places around the world. There were around 9 million Christians in Africa in 1900. That number has increased to 390 million now and is expected to grow to over 600 million in just ten years. There were about 4 million Christians in China in 1950. Now that number is around 67 million. That number is expected to reach 160 million in ten years.

I know that most of you don't agree with Christianity. You don't follow it or believe or whatever. But if Craig is going to demand that Christians "fix" the problem, then I'm telling you the only way that can be done. I can't help you if you've got an issue with people bettering their lives pursuing truth, grace, love, peace, patience, gentleness, joy and self-control.

On Monday, November 14, 2016 at 10:16:11 AM UTC-6, G wrote:

[ClayC]

And as the number of "Christ followers" goes down, America seems to get worse.

Seems illogical to say that Christians are the problem for our societal ills when the ills get worse while the number of actual Christians goes down.

On Monday, November 14, 2016 at 10:46:33 AM UTC-6, G wrote:

Americans are getting worse, not better, on the scale of 0 to Christ. 

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 10:38 AM, David Fairchild <dfairc...@gmail.com> wrote:

What is the point?

On Monday, November 14, 2016 at 10:33:46 AM UTC-6, G wrote:

Whether it actually happens or not is beside the point.

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 10:24 AM, David Fairchild <dfairc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Agreed. That is a terrible decree.

I doubt it will happen. We'll see.

On Monday, November 14, 2016 at 10:16:11 AM UTC-6, G wrote:

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 10:01 AM, David Fairchild <dfairc...@gmail.com> wrote:

By what measure?

Our new Christian President, just elected by all us good hearted CHristians, has issued his first very Christ-like decree......he's going to jail or deport about 3 million illegal immigrants.

Just as he promised. I'm sure my Christian family is celebrating this decision. 

BUILD THE WALL!!!!

   - Jesus Christ, 2016

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[ClayC]

Frankly, when I read this again, it is obvious to me that the author of this article knows little about what really happens in the American Christian church and normal Christian family.

On Monday, November 14, 2016 at 5:43:59 AM UTC-6, Alanskoalas wrote:

[GMoney]

Great, you're winning Africa. Congratulations.

You are losing America. 

I wish Trump was nothing more than a straw man. But he's real. This election really happened. Brian K., my family, and people like him, run this country now. You can pretend all you want, but the reality is that 2016 AMerica is Donald Trump. It's Brian Kegerreis. It's guns. It's walls. It's pussy grabbers. 

They win. I lose. 

I was dead serious when i said previously on here that i was always right when it came to matters of politics. I knew this country. I'd correctly elected a president every single time i voted.  

Until now. So I'm out. Brian is right, I am wrong. My political opinions are worth exactly zero, so i will no longer offer them. 

I wonder what's on TV.....?

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[GMoney]

Hey maybe you've been right all along. Maybe we really do need God in order to possess and maintain a moral compass.

I was dead wrong about Trump and America...it's no stretch to think I've been wrong about religion too. 

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 10:50 AM, ClayC <claycar...@mac.com> wrote:

And as the number of "Christ followers" goes down, America seems to get worse.

Seems illogical to say that Christians are the problem for our societal ills when the ills get worse while the number of actual Christians goes down.

On Monday, November 14, 2016 at 10:46:33 AM UTC-6, G wrote:

Americans are getting worse, not better, on the scale of 0 to Christ. 

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 10:38 AM, David Fairchild <dfairc...@gmail.com> wrote:

What is the point?

On Monday, November 14, 2016 at 10:33:46 AM UTC-6, G wrote:

Whether it actually happens or not is beside the point.

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 10:24 AM, David Fairchild <dfairc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Agreed. That is a terrible decree.

I doubt it will happen. We'll see.

On Monday, November 14, 2016 at 10:16:11 AM UTC-6, G wrote:

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 10:01 AM, David Fairchild <dfairc...@gmail.com> wrote:

By what measure?

Our new Christian President, just elected by all us good hearted CHristians, has issued his first very Christ-like decree......he's going to jail or deport about 3 million illegal immigrants.

Just as he promised. I'm sure my Christian family is celebrating this decision. 

BUILD THE WALL!!!!

   - Jesus Christ, 2016

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[kegbdman]

My hatred of David Duke is a significant problem?

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® 3, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: 'CL' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition <kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com>
Date: 11/14/2016 10:10 (GMT-06:00)
To: kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: White Christians Who Voted for Donald Trump: Fix This. Now. | john pavlovitz

You are a significant part of the problem with the hatred that you spew in these posts.

 

Craig Lubow

913-963-2534 (cell)

---

From: B Keg <kegb...@gmail.com>
To: kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: White Christians Who Voted for Donald Trump: Fix This. Now. | john pavlovitz

The Nazi flag flyer was anti Trump
Nothing to fix here. Yes there are a few dozen sadly insane neo nazis fuktards who just need a hug from a liberal while there are tens of thousands of equally sadly insane sufferers of TARD or Trump acceptance resistance disease who just need to grow up and move out mommies basement and get a job so they can pay of their student loans for the useless social justice warrior bachelor degree the got. David Duke can kiss my ass. The best thing to do with those types is to simply kill them by ignoring them.

[kegbdman]

He issued no decree, he simply stated that he like there to be an effort to deport illegal immigrants who have committed felonies....

Seriously, what is wrong with that?

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® 3, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: David Fairchild <dfairc...@gmail.com>
Date: 11/14/2016 10:24 (GMT-06:00)
To: Kansas City Diversity Coalition <kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: White Christians Who Voted for Donald Trump: Fix This. Now. | john pavlovitz

Agreed. That is a terrible decree.

I doubt it will happen. We'll see.

On Monday, November 14, 2016 at 10:16:11 AM UTC-6, G wrote:

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 10:01 AM, David Fairchild <dfairc...@gmail.com> wrote:

By what measure?

Our new Christian President, just elected by all us good hearted CHristians, has issued his first very Christ-like decree......he's going to jail or deport about 3 million illegal immigrants.

Just as he promised. I'm sure my Christian family is celebrating this decision. 

BUILD THE WALL!!!!

   - Jesus Christ, 2016

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[kegbdman]

I don't understand the oposition to a wall to keep out drugs and illegal immigrants. 

Seriously don't you live indoors and don't you decide who can visit your home? Why should a nation be any different in principle if not in practice?

Send us you poor your downtrodden and your oppressed let then come here to add thier willing additions to the melting pot, but let them come to America to become Americans. 

Why does this idea scare so many of you?

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® 3, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: GMoney <gm0n...@gmail.com>
Date: 11/14/2016 10:54 (GMT-06:00)
To: kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: White Christians Who Voted for Donald Trump: Fix This. Now. | john pavlovitz

Great, you're winning Africa. Congratulations.

You are losing America. 

I wish Trump was nothing more than a straw man. But he's real. This election really happened. Brian K., my family, and people like him, run this country now. You can pretend all you want, but the reality is that 2016 AMerica is Donald Trump. It's Brian Kegerreis. It's guns. It's walls. It's pussy grabbers. 

They win. I lose. 

I was dead serious when i said previously on here that i was always right when it came to matters of politics. I knew this country. I'd correctly elected a president every single time i voted.  

Until now. So I'm out. Brian is right, I am wrong. My political opinions are worth exactly zero, so i will no longer offer them. 

I wonder what's on TV.....?

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 10:47 AM, ClayC <claycar...@mac.com> wrote:

Come on. Your not going to characterize Trump's failures and flaws as Christianity. That's classic straw man. 

Craig's article demanded that Christians "fix" the ills of this world. I answered it with the plan. Unfortunately, that plan has not been as successful in America the past few years as it once was. That is partially because the church has dropped the ball and gotten off track, focused on the wrong things. It also has been influenced by a cultural push to relegate God to the back seat of the bus.

In contrast, Christianity continues to grow "one heart at a time" in other places around the world. There were around 9 million Christians in Africa in 1900. That number has increased to 390 million now and is expected to grow to over 600 million in just ten years. There were about 4 million Christians in China in 1950. Now that number is around 67 million. That number is expected to reach 160 million in ten years.

I know that most of you don't agree with Christianity. You don't follow it or believe or whatever. But if Craig is going to demand that Christians "fix" the problem, then I'm telling you the only way that can be done. I can't help you if you've got an issue with people bettering their lives pursuing truth, grace, love, peace, patience, gentleness, joy and self-control.

On Monday, November 14, 2016 at 10:16:11 AM UTC-6, G wrote:

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 10:01 AM, David Fairchild <dfairc...@gmail.com> wrote:

By what measure?

Our new Christian President, just elected by all us good hearted CHristians, has issued his first very Christ-like decree......he's going to jail or deport about 3 million illegal immigrants.

Just as he promised. I'm sure my Christian family is celebrating this decision. 

BUILD THE WALL!!!!

   - Jesus Christ, 2016

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[David Fairchild]

Scary? We're not the ones advocating a wall.

Humans beings have an inalienable right (see what I did there) to peaceably travel as they wish. Borders are an unnatural state of things.

[ClayC]

Yeah, I heard that too. No big decree. He just said that there are about 3 million illegal immigrants in our prison system. His argument is that we should deport those folks which would clear space in prisons and bring down costs. Seems reasonable to me. But I have not read any details myself.

On Monday, November 14, 2016 at 12:23:16 PM UTC-6, Brian Kegerreis wrote:

He issued no decree, he simply stated that he like there to be an effort to deport illegal immigrants who have committed felonies....

Seriously, what is wrong with that?

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® 3, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: David Fairchild <dfairc...@gmail.com>
Date: 11/14/2016 10:24 (GMT-06:00)
To: Kansas City Diversity Coalition <kansas-city-diversity-coal...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: White Christians Who Voted for Donald Trump: Fix This. Now. | john pavlovitz

Agreed. That is a terrible decree.

I doubt it will happen. We'll see.

On Monday, November 14, 2016 at 10:16:11 AM UTC-6, G wrote:

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 10:01 AM, David Fairchild <dfairc...@gmail.com> wrote:

By what measure?

Our new Christian President, just elected by all us good hearted CHristians, has issued his first very Christ-like decree......he's going to jail or deport about 3 million illegal immigrants.

Just as he promised. I'm sure my Christian family is celebrating this decision. 

BUILD THE WALL!!!!

   - Jesus Christ, 2016

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[Ken Newman]

Way to go CL. You opened up a serious can of worms. It's kind of interesting what everyone has posted. Looks like folks sort of retreated to their reflexive comfort zones. Clay talks about religion, Dave about anarchy, and poor G is just curled up in a corner. 

  G, get back in the game. Nobody is right all the time, and even our resident broken clock BK is often correct. 

  Dave, you are a true anarchist, ala the Beatles. They sang early their career about no more religion, no more countries. I didn't know that Libertarian thought strayed that far off the reservation. Kind of undoes the principles of the DOI and US Constitution. 

  I wouldn't have gone so far as to lay this at BK's feet. He was certainly a voice for "not Hilary", but not really for Trump. Although one can argue that the two give the same result, since there was never going to be a "not Hilary, not Trump". I think it was commentator David Frum, perhaps not, who pointed out that you could use your vote as an instrument of choice, or a way to make a statement. He was advocating for not voting for a third (or fourth) party candidate. 

  I was until this evening more concerned about Trump's followers than the man himself. I don't think that he is nearly as racist or xenophobic as many of his followers. And then he picks Bannon to be WH advisor. Now that's worthy of a Trump/Hitler comparison. Bannon is Goebbels in a big way. Big lies, organized hatred, mouthpiece for the alt-right. (The alt-right comment is HIS). This is a matter of true concern about Trump's judgement. 

  What are we gonna talk about, G? 

You need to reach out to your neighbors and coworkers and classmates and social media friends who are part of marginalized communities and reassure them, listen to them, care for them, be Jesus to them.

[CL]

Here is a good point in response to you from a friend of mine:

Religion does not exist because it is true.  It exists because it is a method by which one group subjugates another.  Young people are turning away from religion because they are repulsed by the   hatred and disingenuousness exhibited by the religious in politics.  The one benefit of this election is that the young might become more energized and as the old die (especially without healthcare) the scales might just tip to the side of justice.
Greg

 

Craig Lubow

913-963-2534 (cell)

---

From: ClayC <claycar...@mac.com>
To: Kansas City Diversity Coalition <kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: alans...@yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: White Christians Who Voted for Donald Trump: Fix This. Now. | john pavlovitz

[CL]

The number of Christians might have decreased, but the remaining Christians control the political arena and all aspects of government because of their financial clout.

 

Craig Lubow

913-963-2534 (cell)

---

From: ClayC <claycar...@mac.com>
To: Kansas City Diversity Coalition <kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 10:50 AM

Subject: Re: White Christians Who Voted for Donald Trump: Fix This. Now. | john pavlovitz

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[Ken Newman]

It would be good for people like us to keep talking and thinking about politics. Several red flags are already raised WRT to Trump. First, he already has criminal indictments regarding his business practices. That puts him ahead of any other recent president-elect. He already is on record suggesting that we use the Internet more and the media less to get information. That's a really bad idea, given that the Internet is rife with flagrant bullshit. It is unregulated, unedited, and virtually useless for unbiased information. Before you all mount your high horses, just look at the recent posts by CL and previous posts by BK. Clearly these sites are heavily biased. People being what they are- relatively stupid and easily influenced- the Internet mostly serves as a way for people to get support for what they already believe. Clearly, the posts that we see on this site give example of the bias inherent in many sites. The tendency to read what we agree with is called conformation bias. The selection of Bannon to sit in the West Wing is ghastly. He is by nature a propogandist. not a dispenser of truth. 

  Just listened to Bill Moyers on MSNBC basically dishing out this very warning. I'm telling you guys, you should pay attention to me more closely. 

[CL]

---

From: ClayC <claycar...@mac.com>
To: Kansas City Diversity Coalition <kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: White Christians Who Voted for Donald Trump: Fix This. Now. | john pavlovitz

Come on. Your not going to characterize Trump's failures and flaws as Christianity. That's classic straw man. 

Craig's article demanded that Christians "fix" the ills of this world. I answered it with the plan. Unfortunately, that plan has not been as successful in America the past few years as it once was. That is partially because the church has dropped the ball and gotten off track, focused on the wrong things. It also has been influenced by a cultural push to relegate God to the back seat of the bus.

In contrast, Christianity continues to grow "one heart at a time" in other places around the world. There were around 9 million Christians in Africa in 1900. That number has increased to 390 million now and is expected to grow to over 600 million in just ten years. There were about 4 million Christians in China in 1950. Now that number is around 67 million. That number is expected to reach 160 million in ten years.

I know that most of you don't agree with Christianity. You don't follow it or believe or whatever. But if Craig is going to demand that Christians "fix" the problem, then I'm telling you the only way that can be done. I can't help you if you've got an issue with people bettering their lives pursuing truth, grace, love, peace, patience, gentleness, joy and self-control.

This does not seem to fit with what I see happening.  Seems like there are more Christians pursuing hate and war rather than peace and love.

On Monday, November 14, 2016 at 10:16:11 AM UTC-6, G wrote:

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 10:01 AM, David Fairchild <dfairc...@gmail.com> wrote:

By what measure?

Our new Christian President, just elected by all us good hearted CHristians, has issued his first very Christ-like decree......he's going to jail or deport about 3 million illegal immigrants.

Just as he promised. I'm sure my Christian family is celebrating this decision. 

BUILD THE WALL!!!!

   - Jesus Christ, 2016

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[Ken Newman]

Also noting that tide has moved against BK in regards to wide-spread rioting. By and large, the anti-Trump protests have been peaceful. Yes, we can see pictures of property damage, and there was a shooting, but given the large numbers of people in the streets, the verdict is mostly peaceful. Yeah, commies. 

[CL]

Bill Moyers is actually a champion of independent media, free from the influence of corporate media.  Even some of the sites that BK uses are probably a little less biased than Fox news.

 

Craig Lubow

913-963-2534 (cell)

---

From: 'Ken Newman' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition <kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com>

To: Kansas City Diversity Coalition <kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com>

Cc: alans...@yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: White Christians Who Voted for Donald Trump: Fix This. Now. | john pavlovitz

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[Ken Newman]

Thanks CL. I'm sitting here watching Rachel Maddow talk about Trump's transition team. Pence is supposed to be heading the transition, but he decided to go back to being governor of Indiana. Advisers have literally just found out that the White House staff all leaves when Trump takes over and that there about 4000 positions to fill. They haven't a clue. They are already not answering calls from the Pentagon and CIA. We need to watch this closely. I have a notion that there are rough seas ahead. Obama is already spending more time helping out than any prior president. A paragon of decency. Maybe Trump will bring him on as a paid adviser. 

On Monday, November 14, 2016 at 8:14:14 PM UTC-6, Alanskoalas wrote:

Bill Moyers is actually a champion of independent media, free from the influence of corporate media.  Even some of the sites that BK uses are probably a little less biased than Fox news.

 

Craig Lubow

913-963-2534 (cell)

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[CL]

Trump could pick Hilary as Secretary of State.  LOL

 

Craig Lubow

913-963-2534 (cell)

---

From: 'Ken Newman' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition <kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com>
To: Kansas City Diversity Coalition <kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: alans...@yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 9:27 PM

Subject: Re: White Christians Who Voted for Donald Trump: Fix This. Now. | john pavlovitz

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[Ken Newman]

Oh, no, he's picking John Bolton, almost ensuring another war. This guy is on record as favoring a bombing of Iran. But I really wanted Newt; he's the epitome of diplomacy. Is Canada on Google Maps? If we have enough global warming, that move could make real sense. Probably be able to grow cotton there in a a couple of decades. Canada already has 2/3's of the world's fresh water. Their wall will have to be twice as long as the one on our southern border. 

  What has me stumped is that the stock market seems completely happy with things. The unknown often makes traders very jittery. I wonder what they know that we don't. 

On Monday, November 14, 2016 at 9:35:10 PM UTC-6, Alanskoalas wrote:

Trump could pick Hilary as Secretary of State.  LOL

 

Craig Lubow

913-963-2534 (cell)

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[CL]

I just read two articles.  One says Trump is leaning toward Bolton and the other said Trump is leaning toward Rudy Giuliani. It says Bolton is second choice.   Both are likely to lead us into a war.  I think Trump is turning out to be every bit as right wing as his rhetoric suggested.

Craig Lubow

913-963-2534 (cell)

---

From: 'Ken Newman' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition <kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com>
To: Kansas City Diversity Coalition <kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: alans...@yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 10:36 PM

Subject: Re: White Christians Who Voted for Donald Trump: Fix This. Now. | john pavlovitz

Oh, no, he's picking John Bolton, almost ensuring another war. This guy is on record as favoring a bombing of Iran. But I really wanted Newt; he's the epitome of diplomacy. Is Canada on Google Maps? If we have enough global warming, that move could make real sense. Probably be able to grow cotton there in a a couple of decades. Canada already has 2/3's of the world's fresh water. Their wall will have to be twice as long as the one on our southern border. 

  What has me stumped is that the stock market seems completely happy with things. The unknown often makes traders very jittery. I wonder what they know that we don't. 

On Monday, November 14, 2016 at 9:35:10 PM UTC-6, Alanskoalas wrote:

Trump could pick Hilary as Secretary of State.  LOL

 

Craig Lubow

913-963-2534 (cell)

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[GMoney]

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 6:29 PM, 'Ken Newman' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition <kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Way to go CL. You opened up a serious can of worms. It's kind of interesting what everyone has posted. Looks like folks sort of retreated to their reflexive comfort zones. Clay talks about religion, Dave about anarchy, and poor G is just curled up in a corner. 

That's an accurate portrayal.

 

  G, get back in the game. Nobody is right all the time, and even our resident broken clock BK is often correct. 

Thanks but no thanks. It may be cathartic to air my grievances, but it won't add anything or be of any real value. There's really nothing to discuss. America has spoken, she's pissed, and she'd gonna make everyone pay for it for awhile. 

When my kids throw tantrums, i ignore them until they calm down. Same thing here i guess.

 

  What are we gonna talk about, G? 

KU plays Duke tonight. Let's talk about Grayson Allen vs. Frank Mason....

[David Fairchild]

Okay. Let's talk about sport, more generally. Or, more specifically, please G and Clay, in particular, please tell me how you find amusement in watching them as a pastime for hours on end.

Seriously, I just don't get it, and never have. I get emotionally angry when my wife insists we stay up on watching MLB or NHL playoff each years -- particularly when they are teams that neither of us have any affinity toward.

I would much rather sit in the dark basement and listen to some fantastic music for hours on end -- and invariably she comes down at 10 p.m., turns it down, and pronounces, "the children are going to bed." Argh. My next house will have a soundproof listening room.

As far a I can tell there is really only one sport worth watching on TV even if I don't recognize the teams playing -- futbol, of course.

 

On Tuesday, November 15, 2016 at 7:26:16 AM UTC-6, G wrote:

[David Fairchild]

If you like podcasts, this one speaks to the foreign policy Trump out to set: http://tomwoods.com/podcast/ep-781-what-trump-needs-to-hear-about-foreign-policy/. It is quite good. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/ msgid/kansas-city-diversity- coalition/7753c48c-7ade-43f7- 8207-ad6f957b11d5% 40googlegroups.com.<br clear="

[David Fairchild]

Question: What ought to happen regarding his alleged white collar illegalities? If a felony level charge is filed against him, ought he stand trial during his administration, or should such a trial be delayed, and why?

[David Fairchild]

Ken,

Good post. I think you summed it up well.

The DOI and the Constitution are social contracts, and social contract are not valid under pure libertarianism. Pure Libertarianism = anarchy. Anything else that bills itself for minimalist government (including the U.S. LP party) I call libertarian light.

[GMoney]

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 8:24 AM, David Fairchild <dfairc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Okay. Let's talk about sport, more generally. Or, more specifically, please G and Clay, in particular, please tell me how you find amusement in watching them as a pastime for hours on end.

I played baseball, enjoyed the fun and the challenge. As such, you can appreciate what some of those players are able to do.

I continue to play basketball on the weekends, and really love the strategy of the game. When you are in synch with another player and are able to basically predict their movements......the synergy is awesome, and it's fun. A perfectly executed give and go or pick and roll is just.......god, it's just satisfying. So much fun. Watching amazing athletes perform similarly but at a much higher level....is really easy to appreciate.

All that being said, in the end, i can't REALLY explain it. I mean, can you really explain why you like a certain song, or a certain type of food? In the end it probably boils down to simply chemistry: There's a pleasure area in your brain that gets stimulated when you do or hear or eat something you enjoy. Sports tickle my brain's funny bone. 

I would much rather sit in the dark basement and listen to some fantastic music for hours on end -- and invariably she comes down at 10 p.m., turns it down, and pronounces, "the children are going to bed." Argh. My next house will have a soundproof listening room.

I'm listening to music pretty much 24/7......at work, in the car, at home.....if i'm awake, i'm probably listening to music. I don't watch TV. If there's not a sporting event I want to watch....my TV is off, my radio is on....a book may be opened.  Music moves me as much if not more than sports. 

 

As far a I can tell there is really only one sport worth watching on TV even if I don't recognize the teams playing -- futbol, of course.

I appreciate futbol more now than i did 10 years ago.....but a little more than nothing still isn't much.   I very much enjoy world cup and Olympic soccer, however.  At least, I did before 11/8/2016. 

[David Fairchild]

Fantastic. Great response.

No, I get the exhilaration of playing, particularly if the match-up is competitive. I like playing basketball and driveway hockey with our girls, love playing soccer and tennis, and I even enjoy my morning solo run.

It's the watching/following I just don't get. More than just the watching -- the constant analysis and discussion and buildup/worry toward the next game people put themselves in -- I just don't get it. Give me CNBC FastMoney over ESPN SportsCenter any day -- though they are basically the same show.

As to soccer enjoyment. Ha! How did 11/8/16 affect your ability to enjoy it?

[CL]

 He should stand trial immediately.  The question is would it be an impeachable offense?  Probably not since the alleged crime(s) occurred before his election and before taking office

Craig Lubow

913-963-2534 (cell)

---

From: David Fairchild <dfairc...@gmail.com>
To: Kansas City Diversity Coalition <kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: White Christians Who Voted for Donald Trump: Fix This. Now. | john pavlovitz

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[GMoney]

I guess that's something I don't really understand either. Why do i care SO much about the Royals? Those players all grew up somewhere else and are making a LOT of money to play a game. So what if they put on a uniform that says "Kansas City" on it?

I think it almost has to be instilled. My dad took me to games, and he cared about who won.....so i learned to do the same. 

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[David Fairchild]

The family connectivity thing makes some sense to me. I think that is why my wife is a baseball fan.

Seriously, are you letting the election outcome spill over into your enjoyment or not of other things? If so, do you think this a temporary thing?

[GMoney]

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 9:33 AM, David Fairchild <dfairc...@gmail.com> wrote:

The family connectivity thing makes some sense to me. I think that is why my wife is a baseball fan.

Seriously, are you letting the election outcome spill over into your enjoyment or not of other things? If so, do you think this a temporary thing?

I don't know......i won't know until world cup or the Olympics. My fervor for those events were drive by my rampant nationalism. That nationalism might be on hiatus.

This election told me to quit giving a fuck about other Americans. So that's what I'm going to do.  I'm no humanist. I gave a fuck because that's what America and my family had taught me to do. Well, America and my family have spoken loud and clear, and they no longer want me to do that. So be it. 

What I don't know yet, is whether that will translate over to sports. Will i really care any more about a collection of men on a pitch wearing USA jerseys??? What exactly would i be cheering for? Sports are a weird like that. You can't always explain why you care so much, you just do......which means that passion could disappear just as suddenly.

I hope it doesn't. 

[David Fairchild]

Fascinating. Maybe break from nationalism will be a good thing.

So, trying to skirt around the politics of all this and instead investigate the psychology of it if you're willing, I am curious what you think your outlook would have been had the outcome gone the other way.

The reality is we knew the popular vote was going to be within a few percentage point either way. The big question was and is always how would the chips fall for the EC. 

And, if I understand you correctly, it's not so much a DT presidency that is bothering you, but the state of our nation and the choices of Americans in general and you family specifically that has allowed for a DT presidency. Do I have this right?

From your POV you knew going in that at least nearly half of us all, well, suck. It just so happened that that nearly half us apparently wanted it just a bit more than the other nearly half of us that, from your POV, doesn't suck -- or at least suck significantly less, right?

I am guessing you knew that at least some in your family were among the sucky ones, correct? Do you feel more anger toward them, specifically, based on the outcome? That is, what has changed for you -- aside form the obvious that DT won. 

[ClayC]

Last night, Craig wrote this in response to one of my posts. 

"This does not seem to fit with what I see happening. Seems like there are more Christians pursuing hate and war rather than peace and love."

This saddens me. Not because Craig wrote it, but because this is reality for far too many people. Too often is does seem like Christians are spewing garbage and hate rather than peace and love. And for those people who do that, I offer no defense. People who do evil things while claiming to do so under the name of Jesus disgust me. And I'm quite certain they disgust God. Those who paint swastikas and hateful speech on the sides of buildings or harass Muslim women on the streets do not represent Jesus. They aren't following his teaching or displaying his character. So, please, do not confuse one for the other.

I can also say that in my experience, thankfully, I have had the privilege of knowing hundreds of actual Christian men and women who are nothing like the bigots and idiots that make the nightly news. They are real Christians. Real followers of the Bible. They aren't perfect, but the people I know genuinely care about others. They are concerned for the poor, the hurt, the forgotten and the broken. Our lead pastor on a Sunday recently lamented his disappointment that neither the GOP nor Democratic party platforms had much to say about the problem of racism in our country. He reminded us of the importance of valuing the dignity of people. To be graceful and loving towards others. I have been around "church people" for most of my life. There are some who are pretenders who don't get it. They use God as a club to pursue their own agendas. But most do get it... at least enough to know that grace, peace, love and compassion should define who we are. And they live lives that display that. You just don't see them on the news.

So, if you want to be angry at and condemn the people who are running around spewing hate. I'm with you. Just don't call them "Christians" and don't assign what they do as an attribute of Jesus. And don't let them keep you from knowing the joy and freedom of a relationship with God.

[GMoney]

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 9:58 AM, David Fairchild <dfairc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Fascinating. Maybe break from nationalism will be a good thing.

So, trying to skirt around the politics of all this and instead investigate the psychology of it if you're willing, I am curious what you think your outlook would have been had the outcome gone the other way.

My understanding of the country would have been intact, as would my perfect record of electing the president along with my brethren.

 

The reality is we knew the popular vote was going to be within a few percentage point either way. The big question was and is always how would the chips fall for the EC. 

That's an interesting point. That it was even close at all should probably have been enough to shake me out of my delusion that I had my finger on the pulse. Perhaps it would have.

 

And, if I understand you correctly, it's not so much a DT presidency that is bothering you, but the state of our nation and the choices of Americans in general and you family specifically that has allowed for a DT presidency. Do I have this right?

I don't know.......Trump IS the person....so i think it probably has to do with him, and all the horrible things he says and stands for that people have echoed and now stood up with him to support.

 

From your POV you knew going in that at least nearly half of us all, well, suck. It just so happened that that nearly half us apparently wanted it just a bit more than the other nearly half of us that, from your POV, doesn't suck -- or at least suck significantly less, right?

I thought only about 40% sucked. The other 60% sometimes sucked, usually didn't, and generally got things right. That was the 60% i always counted on, and counted myself among. It's those people who I thought I understood, but clearly do not.  

I am guessing you knew that at least some in your family were among the sucky ones, correct?

All but a few of them.

 

Do you feel more anger toward them, specifically, based on the outcome?

I might, even though I probably shouldn't. I dunno, i guess I hoped that a person who was awful enough...like blatantly awful, would shake them from their Red state comfort zone. But it didn't. The idea that anyone "Clinton" was the devil and there could be nothing worse.....won out. 

I frankly don't know how to feel....some crazy ass mixture of love, disappointment, understanding, pity anger and a strange sense of "i should have known all along". 

 

That is, what has changed for you -- aside form the obvious that DT won. 

I never thought in a million years that America was capable of electing a Donald Trump to the presidency. 

I know now that I have no idea of what America is capable of.

You're getting me to talk about more than I'd like to at the moment............appealing to psychology. I'm a pushover.

[David Fairchild]

Excellent thoughts, G. I am sorry you are feeling this way, but am happy that maybe you are beginning to process all this.

Glad I could help. Ha!

[Ken Newman]

Try to remember that Hilary won the popular vote. The country is divided badly along several fracture lines. Obama couldn't stop that from worsening, since his race is one of the fault lines. Trump will likely fare no better. 

On Tuesday, November 15, 2016 at 7:26:16 AM UTC-6, G wrote:

[Ken Newman]

Ever heard of headphones? Geez, you're an anarchist and a troglodyte. I personally don't find soccer very interesting; but at physical therapist, I found out that I'm in a distinct minority. 

[Ken Newman]

So Trump continues to pick his advisers and cabinet appointees from a very small circle of people who actually support him. He has placed his children on his  transition team, and picked them to run his business, and asked them to get security clearance. No conflict there. 

[David Fairchild]

Headphones? For music? Sacrilege! I would spent all hours listening to my stereo if I could.

Soccer is a beautiful game. But I understand the rate of concussion among youth players in the U.S. have skyrocketed in recent years as heading the ball has become coached more. Perhaps you have seen studies on this, Ken?

On Tuesday, November 15, 2016 at 5:39:28 PM UTC-6, Ken Newman wrote:

Ever heard of headphones? Geez, you're an anarchist and a troglodyte. I personally don't find soccer very interesting; but at physical therapist, I found out that I'm in a distinct minority. 

On Tuesday, November 15, 2016 at 8:24:18 AM UTC-6, David Fairchild wrote:

Okay. Let's talk about sport, more generally. Or, more specifically, please G and Clay, in particular, please tell me how you find amusement in watching them as a pastime for hours on end.

l

[David Fairchild]

A reign of nepotism.

[Ken Newman]

But it's sort of like football players; they're kind of dull to begin with, so it can be hard to know how concussed they are. Good headphones have studio quality sound. A few hundred bucks to save your marriage, not a bad deal. Check your economic indicators. 

[Ken Newman]

Shades of Machiavelli?

[GMoney]

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 7:26 AM, GMoney <gm0n...@gmail.com> wrote:

KU plays Duke tonight. Let's talk about Grayson Allen vs. Frank Mason....

FYI: Frank Mason won.