Reminder: next meeting mon 23/03

[Celestino Bellone]

Ciao a tutti,

don't miss our next meeting on monday 23rd!

 

Besides our technical presentation that will hopefully be interesting (Sylvain and myself will present alf.io, the open source ticket reservation system that we developed for Voxxed Days Ticino, with the focus on "how we secured the application") , we will discuss about the future of this group!

We'll meet at USI, room SI-008 at 18:30, as usual. 

More information here: http://juglugano.ch/events/meeting_25.html

see you next Monday!

Celestino 

[Luca Vetti Tagliati]

Morning Celestino,

I personally don't think that you should mix the two events,  given that the presentation would be given in Italian... I think that it isn't fair to force a non Italian speaking audience to attend to an Italian presentation. Besides the fact that presentations at the jug should be in English.

So, I think that either the discussion about the jug lugano takes place first or we must reschedule it.

What do you think?

Thanks
Luca

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[Celestino Bellone]

Ciao Luca,

Good point. But a little bit late, don't you think? The meeting has already been announced 20 days ago...

For that reason, I would run the meeting as already scheduled. 

But since you highlighted this point, I would propose the following points to be discussed during the second part:

1)  Is it fair to have "English" as the official language for the mailing list?

2) Which language should be the official language for the meetings?

If there is anybody else who would like to add additional points, please do it in this thread.

ciao,
Celestino

[Luca Vetti Tagliati]

Hi Celestino,

Do you really want to challenge the official language? Do I understand it correctly?
The last time I discussed this topic it was more than 20 years ago...

And want about integration and diversity? And people who don't speak italian? Are these people class B or C "citizens" ?

I personally dislike this new trend and therefore I'm not attending the meeting. I'm happy to openly discuss all topics but no any one which can potentially exclude people.

Thanks
Luca

[Matteo Cerina]

Hi everyone,

here is the opinion, strictly personal, of a random jugger :)

Concerning the choice of the language, I think it's very difficult to make a decision without having a sufficient amount of supporting data.

If we are thinking about the current engaged / interested people we could make a fast poll on some platform to see to which grade this jug community is proficient with Italian and English. We'd have to think a bit about the possible chioices, maybe it would be useful if everyone could "qualify" himself as a beginner/intermediate/advanced (so to say) user of the each language. I'm ready to see some surprising results.

If we are thinking about the potential engaged / interested people we must always weigh the fact that for some people that don't speak Italian so well (or at all) there might be some who are slightly put off by the fact that everything is in English and it would be easier for them to contribute, to listen or to convey their thoughts by speaking Italian. How big are the two groups of people (always think that we're in Lugano, where the mother tongue is Italian)? Again, I don't have any data / experience with the jug community to make a decision... maybe someone with more info or experience on this can chime in :)

As a last point, I don't see any reason to make a different choice for the "default" language to use in the mailing list and in the meetings.

Anyway, if we were to choose Italian (for example) as the default language, I don't think anybody would be offended if someone who can express himself better in English than in Italian writes an email about some idea in English or offers himself to give a presentation in English.

In the end, I wouldn't "automatically" choose English or Italian.

English may seem the natural choice at first, but if it's only because it's cooler or more widely used in a context different from Lugano, or more elitist (in the sense that it restricts the audience), then I don't see the point.
I'm interested in the jug for the concepts and ideas that we could share and discuss, not for the way in which we would express them.

Ciao

Matteo

Matteo Cerina

Ex Machina Sagl

Viale dei Faggi 9 - 6900 Lugano, Switzerland +41 91 9713420

Birmensdorferstrasse 469 - 8055 Zürich, Switzerland +41 44 5853420

www.exmachina.ch

[Mario Fusco]

Luca,

I honestly don't understand where the problem is.

For what regards the mailing list we are keeping it in English to make it as more inclusive as possible.

As for the meetings we can do them in Italian, but if there is even only one person not understanding it we can automatically switch to English. I honestly don't see the point in talking in English to a audience that is 100% Italian.

It's really simple like that. Am I missing something?

Cheers,

Mario

[Luca Vetti Tagliati]

English is not cool or elite, English is openess, inclusion, diversity, future,...

Com'on guys... I Don't believe that we are having this discussion.
The last time I presented at the jug, several people were English speaking.
As much as I love my language (Italian), it is very surprising that we are having this discussion...

I'm speechless.

[Celestino Bellone]

Luca,

IMHO overreacting is not a good way to do a discussion. 

I just put two points to the discussion agenda. If you don't like them, please come to the meeting and say what do you think about. Maybe my points don't make sense, maybe yes. Let's decide that all together! 

Just to be clear: there is no "new trend", not yet at least. There will be a "new trend" only if all the juggers will agree on that. After the discussion.

I hope to see you on Monday

Celestino

[Mario Fusco]

Do you normally talk to English with your italian friends because is openess, inclusion, diversity, future,... ???

Are you serious?

I AM speechless.

[Luca Vetti Tagliati]

Yes, when there aren't only Italian speaking people, as this is the case

[Mario Fusco]

Did you read my former email?

"As for the meetings we can do them in Italian, but if there is even only one person not understanding it we can automatically switch to English. I honestly don't see the point in talking in English to a audience that is 100% Italian."

How this is different from what you're saying?

[Luca Vetti Tagliati]

If we publish an event stating that the presentation will be delivered only in Italian, how many non Italian speaking persons are we likely to find?
And this is the first issue. Ok. A presentation once in a while is *not* an issue -  of corse.

Celestino has clearly stated that he wants to challenge the decision to leverage English as the default language. This is the second issue.

Do you see the point?

Then, nobody prevents Celestino to have his presentation... But i font see any reason why we cannot have a dedicated meeting to discuss the jug in English as default...

Then, if it happens that in a meeting all people speak italian, then of course, we can leverage the language,  but as mentioned before nobody disputes this.  Correct?

[Sylvain Jermini]

Hi,

as a reminder, how many presentation were done in english at the juglugano?

Sylvain Jermini.

[Celestino Bellone]

OK guys, stop the flame :D

here my proposal: what about doing the meeting on monday and then decide in the second part (all together, not two or three of us) if it is the case to organize another meeting to discuss it? If yes, we should decide also when and where.

WDYT?

[Daniele Madama]

Just my point-of-view, which kind of target we want to reach?

I mean: if we want to expand the number of peoples that come to events maybe we should be more attractive for peoples that work in Ticino (Lugano is not enough..). I suppose that all of them (the majority) speak in Italian even if this is not their mother tongue, so I think that this *CAN* be the most often used language in this UG. If someone does not speak/understand correctly Italian we don't want to exclude them, but they should make a compromise, is the same for the other peoples that does not speak/understand English, do we want to exclude them? I don't think so, but in this way we are doing that...

See you on monday.

My 2 cents...

Daniele

The box said "Requires Windows XP or better" .... so I installed Linux !
-o=|=o-

Daniele Madama
http://www.danysoft.org

skype: daniele_madama

[federico.y...@post.ch]

I think we can discuss many of the mentioned points at the pizza after the event. Open also to those that cannot come to the meeting but are interested in participating in the JUG Lugano reinitialization.

The idea was to make it more open and community lead ... I think it is a fair goal.

See you on Monday

Federico

Inviato da iPhone

[Andres Almiray]

Agreed. All discussions are better among friends and pizza :-)

Sent from my primitive Tricorder