Java One or Java ho-hum

[Chris Koerner]

I thought it was just me when I didn't even want to bother listening to the live stream of the event. In many ways Oracle Java is about as interesting as Microsoft .Net. But it seems along with the event that the enthusiasm over Java has dropped.  I remember the days when Java was viewed with incredible excitement and everyone couldn't wait to get a chance to work on a project using Java. 

[Kirk]

maybe it's just me but I felt more excitement as this years event than in the previous few.

Regards,

Kirk

On Oct 23, 2011, at 7:31 PM, Chris Koerner wrote:

I thought it was just me when I didn't even want to bother listening to the live stream of the event. In many ways Oracle Java is about as interesting as Microsoft .Net. But it seems along with the event that the enthusiasm over Java has dropped.  I remember the days when Java was viewed with incredible excitement and everyone couldn't wait to get a chance to work on a project using Java. 

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[Sven Reimers]

Same for me...

Sven

[Cédric Beust ♔]

On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 10:31 AM, Chris Koerner <ches...@gmail.com> wrote:

I remember the days when Java was viewed with incredible excitement and everyone couldn't wait to get a chance to work on a project using Java. 

I think the excitement is still there but it's morphed.

In the early years, I was excited by Java because it saved me from C++.

These days, I'm not excited by the language itself but by the feeling of empowerment and productivity it gives me. I feel that with very few exceptions, I can put together an app that does pretty much anything you can think of with very little friction and in a very, very short time. It will be fast, fully typed, easy to maintain and evolve and with a satisfying architecture that I will feel comfortable tweaking and adjusting. And yes, all this despite Java's verbosity.

I like a lot of alternative JVM languages, but when you look at the broader picture, none of these languages score as high as Java in all these areas.

-- 

Cédric

[Sean Comerford]

I agree with both sides.

Tech geeks always want to be on the cutting edge / "cool" tech. 10 years ago, that WAS java... now it's "just" a wildly successful but mature and more slowly evolving technology.

That being said, JavaOne was WAY better this year with more excitement and I left feeling Java has a lot more momentum. Last year all the interest was in "what's Oracle gonna kill or start charging a fortune for" but this year there was none of that.

Plus it's not hard to make the case Java was stagnating during Sun's death spiral. Like the company or not, Oracle has deep pockets and has Java moving forward on all cylinders again which Sun couldn't do as it hemorrhaged money and people.

[Kirk]

Certainly the excitement in Java this year had to be about JVM performance and JavaFX. JavaFX finally feels real.

Kirk

[Fabrizio Giudici]

On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 21:16:17 +0200, Cédric Beust ♔ <ced...@beust.com>
wrote:

>
>
> I think the excitement is still there but it's morphed.
>

...

> I like a lot of alternative JVM languages, but when you look at the
> broader
> picture, none of these languages score as high as Java in all these
> areas.
>

+1 (including the snipped section)

--
Fabrizio Giudici - Java Architect, Project Manager
Tidalwave s.a.s. - "We make Java work. Everywhere."
fabrizio...@tidalwave.it
http://tidalwave.it - http://fabriziogiudici.it

[Casper Bang]

I felt the same. Tired and uninspired of the usual "Java playing catch-up" game and the "Java is on X trillion devices" mantra. Could also have to do with working for a company who's increasingly adopting C# and its programmers tired of having to implement algorithms with BigDecimal.

[Simon Ochsenreither]

+1.

[Kim Saabye Pedersen]

I think Dick Wall was way off in his description of how expensive it
was to get a hotel room for the conference. Four week before the event
I booked a room at parc 55 for 282 a day - nothing like the thousand
dollars pr night he mentioned. A collegue stayed at Sir drake for even
less.

be fair when giving critique. Did you book via the conference?

btw I miss the days when the posse discussed other things than how
accurate their christmas predictions were. i don't want to hear about
screen resolutions and ten stories about android - which is not java,
right Tor :) i want to hear about technical java stuff like spring vs
j2ee, testning as well as Joe interesting views on ustability.

How about some interviews with key java people?

[Carl of the Posse]

To defend Dick a bit: I was the one who booked our rooms. I checked the links through the conference and also via Orbitz, and saw prices in the many hundreds per day. Some were $1000+, but I guess there are always a few of those. 

For us, $300+ per night per person was a bit out of our budget--we don't have a big revenue stream :). So our $130 per night via Orbitz seemed like a good deal at the time. Maybe I failed in getting to the conference pricing: I'll try harder to use that next year.

[Jess Holle]

I had even worse issues last year.

I couldn't find anything (apart from places with really scary reviews) less than $400 or $500 per night.  I'd never had such an issue with any previous Java One, having always managed to stay in the parc 55, francis drake, or other nice places.  Even decent corporate travel policies have their limits.

I ended up in downtown Oakland.  It worked pretty well thanks to the train, but it seemed rather silly given that Oracle could have saved everyone the trouble by not having Java One and Open World at the same time.

On 10/24/2011 3:03 PM, Carl of the Posse wrote:

To defend Dick a bit: I was the one who booked our rooms. I checked the links through the conference and also via Orbitz, and saw prices in the many hundreds per day. Some were $1000+, but I guess there are always a few of those. 

For us, $300+ per night per person was a bit out of our budget--we don't have a big revenue stream :). So our $130 per night via Orbitz seemed like a good deal at the time. Maybe I failed in getting to the conference pricing: I'll try harder to use that next year.

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[Chris Phelps]

By the time I registered, there didn't seem to be much availability, and what there was was in the $400-$500, pay up front, no cancellations zone.  Instead, my company rented an apartment for the week and we had tons of space and privacy for 5 of us who attended.  Definitely something to consider doing again.

-C

[Dick Wall]

Responding to the request for more interviews. I would love to if I had more time, but I don't and they take a lot of setting up (getting a time that everyone agrees on, covering a list of topics and questions, etc.) In the meantime, there are plenty of other Java podcasts that fill this void now - not like when we first started. The basement coders, java spotlight podcast, SE radio, etc. I recommend that you give some of these a try, and we will stick with what we do now - providing Java news analysis and covering what comes up in the blogosphere over a couple of weeks.

As for Android - well - let's face it, for a Java developer, Android is the most interesting thing happening in the client space, so that's an easy inclusion.

[Vince O'Sullivan]

On Oct 26, 3:03 pm, Dick Wall <dickw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Responding to the request for more interviews. I would love to if I had

> more time, but I don't...

That's a shame. I really do like the interviews but we all really do
appreciate the extraordinary amount of you all do in keeping this
podcast on the road.

> In the meantime, there are plenty of other Java podcasts that fill this void
> now - not like when we first started.

As an aside: During my daily commute, I listen to one Java podcast,
one general teccy podcast, one photography podcast, one wildlife
podcast, one comedy podcast, one astronomy podcast, etc., etc.
About a dozen in all. As long as The Posse keep going, none of the
other Java podcasts are going to get a look in.

[Chris Koerner]

Might be nice to schedule an Java Futures round-table with some notables, maybe have it once a year or two. Where you get some notables in the field to talk (and DON'T work for Oracle) to talk about what they see in terms of current/future of Java.  Might be a good one to do when the regular crew can't make a session or has a vacation. Just a thought (and those are easy).

Otherwise, I would prefer the group to branch out even more into all kinds of areas. The thought of listening to latest JCPs and other boring Java stuff seems like a waste of the great energy/vibe you guys have together. bOracle Java is boring.