NATIVE :: Cucurbitaceae (pumpkin, or gourd family) » Cucumis sativus

[Dinesh Valke]

Cucumis sativus


KOO-koo-mis -- from the Greek kykyon meaning, cucumber
sa-TEE-vus -- cultivated


commonly known as: cucumber • Arabic: خيار khiyar • Assamese: তিয়ঁহ tiyoh, তিঁহু tihu • Bengali: শশা sasa • Gujarati: કાકડી kakadi • Hindi: खीरा khira • Kannada: ಸೌತೆಕಾಯಿ sautekayi • Kashmiri: लौरू loru • Konkani: तौशे taushe • Lushai: fang-hma • Malayalam: വെള്ളരി vellari • Manipuri: থবী thabi • Marathi: काकडी kakadi, कांकडी kankadi, खिरा khira, तवशी tavashi • Nepalese: काँक्रो kankro, खिर् khir, खिरो khiro, खिर्-काँक्रि khir-kakri • Oriya: kakudi • Persian: خيار khiyar • Prakrit: खीरओ khira-o • Punjabi: ਖੀਰਾ khira • Sanskrit: अल्पणः alpanah, अल्पणकः alpanakah, चर्भटी charbati, ईर्वारुः irvaaruh, क्षीरकः kshirakah, त्रपुलम् trapulam, त्रपुसम् trapusam • Sindhi: وَنگيِ vangii • Tamil: வெள்ளரி vellari • Telugu: దోస dosa, కీర kira • Urdu: کهيرا khira



Attached views from town of Pali (famous for one of super eight temples of Lord Ganesha)
... these were posted in earlier thread for ID query ... resolved by Gurcharan ji.
... more views at http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=91314344%40N00&q=Cucumissativus&m=tags



Regards.

[Dinesh Valke]

... correcting location of the attached views: in vicinity of my home place, Vaghbil, Thane.
Regards.

[Gurcharan Singh]

That is really nice Dinesh ji

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com> wrote:

... correcting location of the attached views: in vicinity of my home place, Vaghbil, Thane.
Regards.

On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Cucumis sativus


KOO-koo-mis -- from the Greek kykyon meaning, cucumber
sa-TEE-vus -- cultivated

commonly known as: cucumber • Arabic: خيار khiyar • Assamese: তিয়ঁহ tiyoh, তিঁহু tihu • Bengali: শশা sasa • Gujarati: કાકડી kakadi • Hindi: खीरा khira • Kannada: ಸೌತೆಕಾಯಿ sautekayi • Kashmiri: लौरू loru • Konkani: तौशे taushe • Lushai: fang-hma • Malayalam: വെള്ളരി vellari • Manipuri: থবী thabi • Marathi: काकडी kakadi, कांकडी kankadi, खिरा khira, तवशी tavashi • Nepalese: काँक्रो kankro, खिर् khir, खिरो khiro, खिर्-काँक्रि khir-kakri • Oriya: kakudi • Persian: خيار khiyar • Prakrit: खीरओ khira-o • Punjabi: ਖੀਰਾ khira • Sanskrit: अल्पणः alpanah, अल्पणकः alpanakah, चर्भटी charbati, ईर्वारुः irvaaruh, क्षीरकः kshirakah, त्रपुलम् trapulam, त्रपुसम् trapusam • Sindhi: وَنگيِ vangii • Tamil: வெள்ளரி vellari • Telugu: దోస dosa, కీర kira • Urdu: کهيرا khira

[tanay bose]

hmm , quite nice for relaxing appertizer

Tanay

--

Tanay Bose

Research Assistant & Teaching Assistant.
Department of Botany.
University of British Columbia .
3529-6270 University Blvd.
Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4 (Canada)
Phone: 778-323-4036 (Mobile)

            604-822-2019 (Lab)

ta...@interchange.ubc.ca

[Yazdy Palia]

This is not cucumber. It is a wild fruit, we have a lot of discussion
recently. It is normally found around cowsheds as the animals enjoy
the fruits in the wild and the seeds sprout from the dried cattle
dropping. We have a lot of it in our area.
Regards
Yazdy.

On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com> wrote:

[mani nair]

Nice photo Dinesh ji,   We use this in Dal  and Arvi.   I had a plant growing in our balcony.  I will send a photo of it later.

 

Regards,

 

Mani.

[Gurcharan Singh]

I think it is cucumber only Cucumis sativus var. sativus, though not common garden cucumber. Cucumbers some in a variety of shapes and sizes, all characterised by young fruits with few or many tubercles. This one could be the pickling cucumber:

http://www.foodsubs.com/Squcuke.html

Mani ji, it would be useful if you could send photograph of young female flower with ovary in focus and also if possible a ripe fruit to settle the issue.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 10:36 PM, mani nair <mani....@gmail.com> wrote:

Nice photo Dinesh ji,   We use this in Dal  and Arvi.   I had a plant growing in our balcony.  I will send a photo of it later.

 

Regards,

 

Mani.

On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 9:45 AM, Yazdy Palia <yazdy...@gmail.com> wrote:

This is not cucumber. It is a wild fruit, we have a lot of discussion
recently. It is normally found around cowsheds as the animals enjoy
the fruits in the wild and the seeds sprout from the dried cattle
dropping. We have a lot of it in our area.
Regards
Yazdy.

On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Cucumis sativus
>
>
> KOO-koo-mis -- from the Greek kykyon meaning, cucumber
> sa-TEE-vus -- cultivated
>
>

> commonly known as: cucumber • Arabic: خيار khiyar • Assamese: তিয়ঁহ tiyoh,

[Gurcharan Singh]

Here is some useful information on Indian cucumbers.

http://www.seedsofindia.com/category/Cucumbers-18

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[Yazdy Palia]

Dear Dr. Gurcharan Singh Ji,
attaching the pictures of the same fruit. I have not seen any humans
consuming this. It grows wild in our area. However may be a wild
cucumber. I will go through the link sent by you.
Regards
Yazdy.

[mani nair]

Dear Gurcharan ji, sorry, what I meant was another cucurbit which is known as Brown cucumber which we use as a vegetable in  Dal.  I was confused by the Malayalam name "Vellari".  I think the cucurbit in Dinesh ji's photo is the wild cucumber which is bitter in taste and in Malayalam it is called "aatanga" , I do not know the English name of it.  I am attaching two photos taken last year of the Brown cucumber which was growing in a pot. Sorry, I did not take any flower photo.  

Regards,

Mani.  

not brown cucumber, but it is a bitter variety of cucumber which nobody eats. In Malayalam Vellarikka is the brown cucumber, which we put in dal.

On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Yazdy Palia]

Dear Dr. Gurcharan Singh Ji,

I have gone through the link sent by you. The fruit in question is not
one of these. This particular fruit is only around 2" in length and
around 1.2 to 1.5" in diameter. In Malayalam it is called aatanga. It
is bitter and the fruit when ripe has very little flesh most of it is
liquid and seeds.
Regards
I will add the cross section of the fruit a little later today.
Regards
Yazdy.

[promila chaturvedi]

Is it Kachri? I have seen the plant with fruit in my childhood, and few years back got Kachri Ka Achar from Jaipur. It was considered poor folks food-plant those days.
Promila

[Yazdy Palia]

Promila Ji , I have just tried to find out what is Kachri and have
done so. This is definitely Kachri. Am attaching a picture of the
sliced fruit for the benefit of the group. Incidentally am copying the
link for Kachri here.
http://www.google.co.in/search?q=Kachri&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&client=firefox-a&rlz=1R1GGGL_en___IN364
Regards
Yazdy.

[promila chaturvedi]

Thanks Yazdi Ji. Just now I also read Dinesh Ji's mail where he has described and given a picture of it as well.

Promila

[Madhuri Pejaver]

in kannada called as soutekai

madhuri

---

From: mani nair <mani....@gmail.com>
To: Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com>
Cc: Yazdy Palia <yazdy...@gmail.com>; Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com>; efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, 9 October, 2010 3:41:23 PM
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:50082] NATIVE :: Cucurbitaceae (pumpkin, or gourd family) » Cucumis sativus

[Yazdy Palia]

Yes Madhuri Ji, Cucumber in Kannada is Sautekai.
This though is not saute kai.
Regards
Yazdy.

[Dinesh Valke]

Dear friends, please bear with me .... my cucurbits are causing confusion !!!
Hoping the confusion will get resolved sooner or later (else, there are several photos in my photostream which will lose their identities !!!!!)

Regards.

[mani nair]

In Maharashtra on the first day of Divali, the cucurbit in Dinesh ji photo is trambled with foot thinking that this will bring good luck.

Regards,

Mani.

[Dinesh Valke]

If what Mani ji has confidently pointed out is correct ... which me too now realize it could be true ...in Marathi popularly known as chirata OR also known as kaareta ... not sure what it translates to botanical name.
Am sure somebody will come up with the botanical name ... am curious.

Regards

[Aboli Kulkarni]

hello everyone,
I think this is wild cucumber ( Zehneria scabra)... this is very
common... we can easily see this in the vicinity of our home...

> > Regards.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Dinesh Valke]

... but something is wrong Aboli ji ... fruit of Zehneria scabra is very tiny compared what is discussed.
Cucurbits of inconspicuous size and of no use, all get the same name in Marathi / Konkani : chirati ... and, chirata is larger size, and of course, of no use.

Regards.

[Yazdy Palia]

This is not Zehneria Scabra. Please go through the link for Zeneria scabra.
http://www.google.co.in/search?q=Zehneria+scabra&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&client=firefox-a&rlz=1R1GGGL_en___IN364
Regards
Yazdy.

[Gurcharan Singh]

Friends we seem to be reaching somewhere. 

Firstly let us not confuse plant uploaded by Dinesh ji with what is established Kachri fruit. Kachri is botanically Cucumis trigonis now correctly known as C. melo subsp. agrestris var. agrestris. A fruit which rarely exceeds 4 cm in length, is a mini version of watermelon in color, fruit green with dark green stripes. And important KACHRI IS EDIBLE AND POPULARLY USED AS VEGETABLE IN VILLAGES. The young fruit of C. melo would never have tubercles, it may be softly pubescent.

http://madteaparty.wordpress.com/2007/07/26/a-strange-gourd/

http://efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=86657&flora_id=5

The plant uploaded by Dinesh ji and Yazdy ji if it is wild, bitter and not edible (as informed by Yazdy ji, , surely we have reached C. sativus var. hardwickii (Royle) Alef. (syn: C. hardwickii Royle) the wild cucumber, considered by some to be the progenitor of C. sativus var. sativus. 

If that is so we have achieved a lot in this series on cucurbits. 

And thanks Dinesh ji for uploading these photographs again and again.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Yazdy Palia <yazdy...@gmail.com> wrote:

This is not Zehneria Scabra. Please go through the link for Zeneria scabra.
http://www.google.co.in/search?q=Zehneria+scabra&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&client=firefox-a&rlz=1R1GGGL_en___IN364
Regards
Yazdy.

On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 9:27 PM, Aboli Kulkarni
<aboli.k...@gmail.com> wrote:

> hello everyone,
> I think this is wild cucumber ( Zehneria scabra)... this is very
> common... we can easily see this in the vicinity of our home...
>
> On Oct 9, 9:15 am, Yazdy Palia <yazdypa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> This is not cucumber. It is a wild fruit, we have a lot of discussion
>> recently. It is normally found around cowsheds as the animals enjoy
>> the fruits in the wild and the seeds sprout from the dried cattle
>> dropping. We have a lot of it in our area.
>> Regards
>> Yazdy.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Dinesh Valke <dinesh.va...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Cucumis sativus
>>
>> > KOO-koo-mis -- from the Greek kykyon meaning, cucumber
>> > sa-TEE-vus -- cultivated
>>

>> > commonly known as: cucumber • Arabic: خيار khiyar • Assamese: তিয়ঁহ tiyoh,

[Yazdy Palia]

Dear Dr. Gurcharan Singh Ji,

I have gone through the links sent by you. I am not yet satisfied. We
definitely have achieved quite a bit but I will keep looking for what
I think is the correct identity. At the same time, I must admit that I
am a lay person and may be wrong.
Regards
Yazdy.

[Dinesh Valke]

Many thanks Yazdy ji for the good spirits !!
Many thanks to Gurcharan ji for Cucumis sativus var. hardwickii.

After having surfed for more information related to Mani ji's input ...
... found that the "wild cucumber" used during Deepavali festival (ritual common in Maharashtra) is known by so many names:

कारिंट karinta
कारीट karita
कडू कारीट kadu karita (एक प्रकारचे कडू फळ ... a kind of bitter fruit)
चिराटे chiraate

- reading in English (search karit for getting to the context):
... http://www.anothersubcontinent.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php?t2687.html

- reading in Hindi (search कारीट for  getting to the context) :
... http://www.nanijdham.org/hi_1/faq.php

- reading in Marathi (search कारीट for  getting to the context) :
... www.loksatta.com/old/daily/20021103/lokviv4.htm




Narrowing down to following in this order:
- Cucumis trigonus var. pubescens (syn. C. pseudo-colocynthis var. pubescens)
- Cucumis sativus var. hardwickii (syn: C. hardwickii )
- Citrullus colocynthis ... ruling out



Tending to get convinced with Cucumis trigonus (var. pubescens) :

- Dr. K.M. Nadkarni's Indian Materia Medica., Volume 2 By K. M. Nadkarni, A. K. Nadkarni ... interesting reading
... http://books.google.co.in/books?id=RA4Npohz4CEC&pg=PA405&lpg=PA405&dq=karit+Cucumis+trigonus&source=bl&ots=tY9YsdgjWC&sig=rlU22HIJCTJEq7HiwMi8wpge9D4&hl=en&ei=g3WxTKmbBYGycdDv9LIG&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&sqi=2&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=karit%20Cucumis%20trigonus&f=false


More comments, please.


Regards.

[Gurcharan Singh]

This is what should be Cucumis melo ssp. agrestris and not one uploaded by Dinesh ji and Yazdi ji

Note pubescent young fruits and absence of tubercles

http://www.jircas.affrc.go.jp/project/africa_dojo/FakaraPlants/Contents/Species_pages/images/CucummelM1_l.jpg

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[Gurcharan Singh]

Dinesh ji and Yazdy ji

Please also have look at these, May be these can convince you all I have been trying to say all these days.

http://www.bib.fsagx.ac.be/base/text/v11n4/283.pdf

http://botany.csdl.tamu.edu/FLORA/dcs420/c/hdw25109804s.jpg

http://botany.csdl.tamu.edu/FLORA/dcs420/c/hdw25109807s.jpg

http://botany.csdl.tamu.edu/FLORA/dcs420/a/hdw31070008s.jpg

http://botany.csdl.tamu.edu/FLORA/dcs420/a/hdw31070010s.jpg

http://botany.csdl.tamu.edu/FLORA/dcs420/a/hdw31070011s.jpg

http://botany.csdl.tamu.edu/FLORA/dcs420/a/hdw31070012s.jpg

http://www.jircas.affrc.go.jp/project/africa_dojo/FakaraPlants/Contents/Species_pages/images/CucummelM1_l.jpg

http://madteaparty.wordpress.com/2007/07/26/a-strange-gourd/

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[Yazdy Palia]

Exactly Dr. Gurcharan Singh Ji, I have been going through many a site
but am not able to see a single picture of the cucumis that we had
uploaded. Somewhere I did read that a bitter cucumis is seen in the
wild and it is also used in Ayurveda but it has no English name.
I am still on the lookout for any entry of this cucumis or should I
say cucurbit (please correct me).
Regards
Yazdy.

[Gurcharan Singh]

Yazdy ji

Just try to compare and decide does this plant resemble more with melon (C. melo) or cucumber (C. sativus)? You should get the answer. 

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[Yazdy Palia]

Dear Dr. Gurcharan Singh ji,
Thank you for being so patient with this lay person. I will go through
the links copied by you. I do not recollect having stated that it is
melon(c melo). The only reason I have been maintaining that it is not
c sativus is because , I see no picture that is matching the pictures
attached by me. I do not know the definition of C sativus. Shall try
to go through and find out the definition and revert back.
Thank you once again for being so patient.
Regards
Yazdy

[Gurcharan Singh]

Yazdi ji

May be these can help you

Eflora of Pakistan

2 (1)	Leaf lobes acute. Ovary hispidulous. Fruit elongated or cylindric, rarely ovoid		1 Cucumis sativus
+	Leaf lobes not acute. Ovary hairy or densely white woolly. Fruit polymorphic, mostly rounded, ovoid or ellipsoid		(3)
3 (2)	Leaves usually deeply 5(-7)-lobed, scabrid. Corolla up to 10 mm long. Fruit oblong or obscurely trigonus, upto 7 cm long. Plants wild		3 Cucumis melo subsp. agrestis var. agr

Hortus Third

C. sativus: Rough-hary. Leaves triangular-ovate, pointed, often somewhat 3-lobed, flowers short stalked and clustered in axils on main stem. Fruit prickly when young.

C. melo: Softly hairy. Leaves round-ovate to nearly reniform, obtuse. Flower long stalked. Young fruit pubescent.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[Dinesh Valke]

Gurcharan ji, your logical question of melon v/s cucumber and key at eflora to distinguish them, all points towards cucumber category ... many thanks for the clarity, thoughts about this fruit being used during Deepavali have to be erased.


Regards.

[Yazdy Palia]

Dear Dr. Gurcharan Singh Ji,

Many thanks for the definition. According to the definition, it does appear to be C Sativus. Attaching a picture of sliced fruit. The seeds too look like cucumber. My only doubt was that in none of the pictures did we find this fruit. However, if we do go by the definition, it is C. Sativus.
Regards
Regards
Yazdy.

[Gurcharan Singh]

Thanks Yazdi ji and Dinesh ji

Having agreed on C. sativus, you have now to confirm two things: First is it wild? and secondly is it bitter and inedible? If these two things are correct, it would be C. sativus var. hardwickii.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[Dinesh Valke]

Gurcharan ji, these are not planted for sure... however these are found growing along roadsides and forest trails (may be found to a certain depth in forests).
About inedibility, will get to know from the local folks.

Many thanks for resolving the ID.
Regards.

[Yazdy Palia]

Dear Dr. Gurcharan Singh ji,

It is definitely wild. Nobody cultivates it. It is terribly bitter and unedible, though animals eat it with gusto. It is so bitter that if you cut it on a board, and then after washing cut something else, even that becomes bitter.
Regards
Yazdy Palia.

On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Yazdy Palia]

However, it is used in ayurveda.
Regards
Yazdy.

[Gurcharan Singh]

Then perhaps I will stick to C. sativus var. hardwickii

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[Yazdy Palia]

Accepted Sir.
Regards
Yazdy.