VoF Week :: DV :: 02 AUG 12 - 1041 :: Fritillaria cirrhosa at Valley of Flowers

[Dinesh Valke]

Fritillaria cirrhosa D.Don ... (family: Liliaceae) syn. Fritillaria roylei Hook.

2 AUG 12 Valley of Flowers ... about 11600 ft

Regards. Dinesh

[Gurcharan Singh]

Thanks Dinesh ji, you found at least in fruiting condition. I could catch it in flowering in May only. Completely missed it in previous years in Kashmir in July-August.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/indiantreepix/Fritillaria$20roylei/indiantreepix/U9UaSLWJvy0/JpSL0MUUoaYJ

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Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

 

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[Nidhan Singh]

Crispy pics Dinesh Ji.....thanks a lot...



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Regards,

Dr. Nidhan Singh
Department of Botany
I.B. (PG) College
Panipat-132103 Haryana
Ph.: 09416371227

[Tabish]

I thought Fritillaria cirrhosa  was a plant of Eastern Himalayas and Fritillaria roylei a plant of Western Himalayas. This synonymy at the plant list is confusing. GRIN still treats them as separate.
   - Tabish

[Dinesh Valke]

In that case, (we know them being separate species) would go with Fritillaria roylei.
Many many thanks Tabish for pointing this fact.
Regards,
Dinesh

On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Tabish <tab...@gmail.com> wrote:

I thought Fritillaria cirrhosa  was a plant of Eastern Himalayas and Fritillaria roylei a plant of Western Himalayas. This synonymy at the plant list is confusing. GRIN still treats them as separate.
   - Tabish

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[Tabish]

 Also the leaves don't look like those of Fritillaria cirrhosa at all.
 - Tabish

[Dinesh Valke]

Thanks again Tabish - thus supporting them to separate species.
Regards.
Dinesh

On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Tabish <tab...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Also the leaves don't look like those of Fritillaria cirrhosa at all.

 - Tabish

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[Tabish]

Actually Dinesh, I am having doubts about this being Fritillaria at all, not that I have much experience with it. F. roylei is supposed to be 1-2 ft tall - this plant appears taller. Also, the flowers are nodding, whereas the fruit here is upright. It might happen of course that in fruiting the stalks become erect, but I need somebody to tell me that it does happen.
   - Tabish

[Dinesh Valke]

These were standing about a metre tall or even 1.25 m, as much as I can recollect.
Transformation of a nodding flower to an upright fruit is worth understanding.
Regards.
Dinesh

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[Gurcharan Singh]

Thanks Tabish ji for raising the doubt.

 Erect fruit is no problem, as I have seen plenty of them (one attached here) in related species F. imperialis (in which flowers are more strongly nodding). The leaves are, however, a problem clearly. Besides being slightly broader, they are clearly alternate here (opposite mostly in F. roylei, though few may be alternate). Besides the three bracteal leaves generally seen below the flower of Fritillaria roylei (and should be there in fruit also) are missing here.

    After a lot of thinking, I propose Lilium polyphyllum as possible ID of above plant by Dinesh ji.

-- 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

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[Dinesh Valke]

Many thanks to Gurcharan ji and Tabish for this discussion.
Regards.
Dinesh

[jmgarg1]

Forwarding again for Id confirmation or otherwise please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:      

 

Thanks Dinesh ji, you found at least in fruiting condition. I could catch it in flowering in May only. Completely missed it in previous years in Kashmir in July-August. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/indiantreepix/Fritillaria$20roylei/indiantreepix/U9UaSLWJvy0/JpSL0MUUoaYJ -- Dr. Gurcharan Singh

I thought Fritillaria cirrhosa  was a plant of Eastern Himalayas and Fritillaria roylei a plant of Western Himalayas. This synonymy at the plant list is confusing. GRIN still treats them as separate.    - Tabish
Also the leaves don't look like those of Fritillaria cirrhosa at all. from Tabish ji.

Actually Dinesh, I am having doubts about this being Fritillaria at all, not that I have much experience with it.  F. roylei is supposed to be 1-2 ft tall - this plant appears taller. Also, the flowers are nodding, whereas the fruit here is upright. It might happen of course that in fruiting the stalks become erect, but I need somebody to tell me that it does happen.    - Tabish

These were standing about a metre tall or even 1.25 m, as much as I can recollect.

Transformation of a nodding flower to an upright fruit is worth understanding. Regards. Dinesh

Thanks Tabish ji for raising the doubt.

Erect fruit is no problem, as I have seen plenty of them (one attached here) in related species F. imperialis (in which flowers are more strongly nodding). The leaves are, however, a problem clearly. Besides being slightly broader, they are clearly alternate here (opposite mostly in F. roylei, though few may be alternate). Besides the three bracteal leaves generally seen below the flower of Fritillaria roylei (and should be there in fruit also) are missing here.     After a lot of thinking, I propose Lilium polyphyllum as possible ID of above plant by Dinesh ji.

-- Dr. Gurcharan Singh

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

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[Dr Pankaj Kumar]

Whole inflorescence of Geodorum turns upright while fruiting so that is not an issue. But I think Gurcharan sir is right. This is Lilium polyphyllum. This seems too tall for Frittilaria.

Best regards

Pankaj

[Dinesh Valke]

Many thanks Garg ji for resurfacing this post.
Thank you very much Pankaj for the clarification, and for confirming the ID.
Regards.
Dinesh

Pankaj

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[Balkar Singh]

A description for Lilium polyphyllum from 100 himalayan Flowers by Mehta and Bole

"It is bulbous herb, with leafy stem, upto 3 m tall the leaves are linear to oblanceolate, 10-12 cm, slender and many nerved; the lower leaves are ogten whorled, the flowers are fragrant, 5 Cm in dia, and are held on terminal racemes. Blooming from June to August, they are dull yellowish or greenish outside and white within with long purple streaks; the segments are oblanceolate, strongly reflexed or curved, giving the flower a cup shaped pretty appearance. The fruit is an erect, 3 valved many seeded capsule; The seeds are vertically compressed"

So I also conclude  Lilium polyphyllum 
Thanks

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Regards

Dr Balkar Singh
Head, Deptt. of Botany and Biotechnology
Arya P G College, Panipat
Haryana-132103
09416262964

[Dinesh Valke]

Thank you very much Balkar ji for the description, and for confirming the ID.
Regards.
Dinesh

[Gurcharan Singh]

Really strange and interesting

Almost similar plant in same stage uploaded by Debashis Chowdhury in Indian Flora on Facebook is labelled by him as Gymnadenia orchidis. Perhaps Orchid experts can comment on this.

-- 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

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[Pankaj Kumar]

Respected Sir
If you can put the link here, then may be I will check at home.
No facebook usually at office :(
Pankaj

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[jmgarg1]

Hi, Debasish ji,

For your inf. pl.

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[Gurcharan Singh]

Here is the link to upload on Indian Flora on Facebook

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=363623813711960&set=o.218772838164063&type=1&theater 

It looks as if the two of them (Dinesh ji and Debashis ji) have photographed the same specimen.

-- 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

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[Pankaj Kumar]

Oh yea, thats 100% wrong, I saw it on my phone.
Pankaj

[Umeshkumar Tiwari]

I think it is not Fritilaria, it may be Lilium ???????

[Dinesh Valke]

Many thanks Umesh ji for further validating the posted plant to be Lilium (polyphyllum).
Regards.
Dinesh

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