I generally recommend the exact opposite. Neo4j shines when embedded.
Sqlg already works of databases that is designed for remote access.
Wrapping that with yet another server is an unnecessary complication.
(Not having used it I do not know the usability or performance impact,
however being another layer it can only degrade performance and
complexity).
Further because Sqlg already works of a remote database it supports many
jvm's directly accessing the same graph. I imagine other providers could
have the same feature.
So gremlin-x is fine but it is not the obvious best choice for all
architectures.
All the above is for happy java devs.
v1.property(‘name’).value()v1.edges(OUT).next()cluster.submit(“1+2”)graph = GraphFactory.open(...)graph.io(gryo()).readGraph(‘data/blah.gryo’)
g.V(1).values(‘name’)g.V(1).outE().next()g.inject(1,2).sum()g.withRemote(config)// hmmm… don’t know about the last one.
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I think we've tried a lot of things for TinkerPop 3 and that there are too many options for application development as well as an over-exposed API, so I like this direction, though a fair bit of complexity lies in making it happen. Before getting to that complexity, I don't really think of this as a "new idea". To me the description of gremlin-x is really just a GLV for Java. I mean - consider that gremlin-python (something we classify as a GLV) is basically "everything a python dev needs to build applications - nothing more/less" and that's pretty much what we want for java in gremlin-x. gremlin-x would basically be "everything a java dev needs to build applications - nothing more/less". So I'm not seeing much distinction there (nor the need for naming it "gremlin-x" really - seems to be as simple as "gremlin-java" to be in line with other GLVs we will have).
gremlin-java/structure/io/process/remote/client/server/language/graph/machine/traversal/steps/strategies/computer/distributed/ **forthcoming**
gremlin-python/structure/io/process/remote/client/language/graph/
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You say "v1.property(‘name’).value()" should never happen.
This is something we use all the time. Almost all the work we do is with
vertices and edges and is natural to call
element.property("something").isPresent(),
element.property("something").value(), element.property("something",
"somethingnew”)
With this current train of thought will the use
Graph/Vertex/Edge/Property be discouraged or disappear?
Even as things stands now are you saying
vertex.property("something").value() should be replaced with
g.V(vertex).values("something”)?
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One of the first reasons I came to graphs, Neo4j and then TinkerPop way
back was precisely because of the direct access to Node/Vertex. The user
treats it like any other object, not a remote connection. It is the
embedded nature that makes life so easy. In a way it was like having a
simplistic Hibernate as the core api. 99% of queries we write is to
retrieve vertices. Not Maps and Lists of something. TinkerPop's own test
suite applies this type of thinking. Querying/modifying Elements and
asserting them. Vertex and Edge abound as first class citizens.
v = g.V().next()
g.V(v).out()
Graph, Vertex and Edge is the primary abstraction that users deal with.
Having the direct representation of this is very very nice.
It makes user code easy and readable. You know you are dealing with the
"Person/Address/Dog/This/That" entity/label as opposed to just a
decontextualized bunch of data, Maps and Lists. If Vertex/Edge/Property
were to disappear I'd say it would be the first call of duty to write a
baby hibernate to bring the property model back in again into userspace.
Regarding jdbc, this kinda makes the point. Sqlg and Hibernate and many
many other tools exists precisely so that users do not need to use JDBC
with endless hardcoded strings guiding the application. Making TinkerPop
more like JDBC is not an obvious plus point.
A ReferencedElement is also no good as the problem I experience is
latency not bandwidth.
I reckon the experience and usage of TinkerPop is rather different for
java and non java people and perhaps even java folks. Hopefully I am not
the only one who have made such heavy happy use of the TinkerPop
property meta model and would be sad to see it go.
Cheers
Pieter
I agree the focus should be on the Connection (being separate from Graph) and Traversal. I wouldn't constrain it to "RemoteConnection", just Connection or GraphConnection. Perhaps there's an EmbeddedConnection and a RemoteConnection or maybe it's URI-oriented similar to how JDBC does it. In either case, the behavior of Remote and Embedded is the same which is what I think we're striving for.
I would also like to see Transactions be Connection-oriented. With the right API, it could hook into JTA and be able to take advantage of various annotations for marking transaction boundaries.
g = g.openTx()g.V().out().out()g.addV()g.V(1).addE().to(2)g.closeTx();
Are there features of a lambda that couldn't be replaced by a more feature-rich gremlin?g.V().out('knows').map{it.get().value('name') + ' is the friend name'}
g.V().out('knows').map(lambda(concat(__.it.get().value('name'), ' is the friend name’))
g.V().map(function(“it.get().label()”)) // Gremlin-Java traversal with a Gremlin-Groovy lambda.
Reference-only makes total sense. This works really well especially with a local cache or for use cases where most of the data is stored in a separate database. I think it would lend itself nicely to lazy loading. When you need values there are options for that as well (properties/values/valueMap). One of the problems with 'attached' elements is you don't know what the implementation does. So potentially every get or set property call is going to the database and you don't realize it. That can hurt performance and have unintended consequences.
g.V(1).out(‘knows')
g.withDetachment(…)- Detach.reference // just ids- Detach.reduced // ids, labels, keys, values (basically, what you need for toString())- Detach.rich // property data included- Detached.full // edge data included (basically, StarGraph)
{ @type:”g:Vertex", @detach:”reference", @value: { id:1 } }
Element.detachment() -> Detach enum
Element.detach(Detach) -> ElementElement.attach(Graph) -> Element (always a Detach.full element)
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<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gremlin-users/7CBD403D-4EC3-4B4B-AFF9-9A54B4D3C4EF%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
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>>> an email to gremlin-users+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>> <mailto:gremlin-users+unsub...@googlegroups.com>
>>> <mailto:gremlin-users+unsub...@googlegroups.com>.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gremlin-users/7CBD403D-4EC3-4B4B-AFF9-9A54B4D3C4EF%40gmail.com
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gremlin-users/7CBD403D-4EC3-4B4B-AFF9-9A54B4D3C4EF%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
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> <mailto:gremlin-users+unsub...@googlegroups.com>.> an email to gremlin-users+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gremlin-users/7CBD403D-4EC3-4B4B-AFF9-9A54B4D3C4EF%40gmail.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gremlin-users/7CBD403D-4EC3-4B4B-AFF9-9A54B4D3C4EF%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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> <mailto:gremlin-users%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>> > an email to gremlin-users+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:gremlin-users+unsub...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:gremlin-users%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>>.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit
> >
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gremlin-users/7CBD403D-4EC3-4B4B-AFF9-9A54B4D3C4EF%40gmail.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gremlin-users/7CBD403D-4EC3-4B4B-AFF9-9A54B4D3C4EF%40gmail.com>
> >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gremlin-users/7CBD403D-4EC3-4B4B-AFF9-9A54B4D3C4EF%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gremlin-users/7CBD403D-4EC3-4B4B-AFF9-9A54B4D3C4EF%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>.
>
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gremlin-users/79132fdd-f67f-5c3c-f8e3-87ab80f3c6f9%40gmail.com>.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>.
>
>
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Robert Dale
> > an email to gremlin-user...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:gremlin-users%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > <mailto:gremlin-users+unsub...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:gremlin-users%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>>.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit
> >
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gremlin-users/7CBD403D-4EC3-4B4B-AFF9-9A54B4D3C4EF%40gmail.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gremlin-users/7CBD403D-4EC3-4B4B-AFF9-9A54B4D3C4EF%40gmail.com>
> >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gremlin-users/7CBD403D-4EC3-4B4B-AFF9-9A54B4D3C4EF%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gremlin-users/7CBD403D-4EC3-4B4B-AFF9-9A54B4D3C4EF%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>.
>
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gremlin-users/79132fdd-f67f-5c3c-f8e3-87ab80f3c6f9%40gmail.com>.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>.
>
>
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