Kite poles that collapse like tent poles.

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Melissa N

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Dec 1, 2014, 11:03:35 PM12/1/14
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My favourite kite has poles that collapse like tent poles, but it is pretty small ( a 5' wide delta ). It would be awesome to update my home-made 8' delta to replace its bamboo poles for fiberglass poles that collapse. This would make getting around with my kite much easier and more enjoyable (think bikes and buses).

I was thinking I could order some fiberglass rods, string some elastic string through two rods, and use metal cylindar pieces to hold the two together and rigid. 

Do any of you have any experience or ideas about that? (Like where online is recommended to obtain these items)

Thanks!

Melissa Nunes

Mathew Lippincott

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Dec 2, 2014, 12:22:03 AM12/2/14
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The point where the metal sheaths the rod (called a ferrule) is a point of stress that can break the rod.

Cris Benton built his own collapsible carbon fiber spars with internal and external ferrules (metal rods) and elastic string, as you described.  I can't find it on his flickr feed. I've seen 'em in action though, really cool.

carbon fiber arrow makers sometimes sell seconds of shorter pieces of arrow tube... those get cheaper than buying new.


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Dan Beavers

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Dec 2, 2014, 1:28:02 AM12/2/14
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I remember seeing some carbon fiber arrow tubes at Walmart the other
day. They were without the pointy end but had a metal insert to screw
said device into it. I don't remember the price but they were not
outrageous as far as I can remember. I think that is all they had but
they may have had the feathers attached. This might be a decent source.

On 2014-12-01 23:21, Mathew Lippincott wrote:
> The point where the metal sheaths the rod (called a ferrule) is a point
> of stress that can break the rod.
>
> Cris Benton built his own collapsible carbon fiber spars with internal
> and external ferrules (metal rods) and elastic string, as you
> described. I can't find it on his flickr feed. I've seen 'em in action
> though, really cool.
>
> carbon fiber arrow makers sometimes sell seconds of shorter pieces of
> arrow tube... those get cheaper than buying new.
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 8:03 PM, Melissa N <nunes.m...@gmail.com
> <mailto:nunes.m...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> My favourite kite
> <http://www.prismkites.com/products-sl-stowaway_delta.php> has poles
> that collapse like tent poles, but it is pretty small ( a 5' wide
> delta ). It would be awesome to update my home-made 8' delta to
> replace its bamboo poles for fiberglass poles that collapse. This
> would make getting around with my kite much easier and more
> enjoyable (think bikes and buses).
>
> I was thinking I could order some fiberglass rods, string some
> elastic string through two rods, and use metal cylindar pieces to
> hold the two together and rigid.
>
> Do any of you have any experience or ideas about that? (Like where
> online is recommended to obtain these items)
>
> Thanks!
>
> Melissa Nunes
>
> --
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charles stewart

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Dec 2, 2014, 11:09:55 AM12/2/14
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Anybody consider Banner poles ?. I have them up to 25 feet. They collapse to about five feet.  They may be longer ones. Try searching Banner poles. That may work.
 
God Bless
Charles Stewart
High Spirits


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Chad Netto

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Dec 2, 2014, 11:21:31 AM12/2/14
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If you decide to use the carbon arrows and want them for free, check out your local sporting good store for used arrows. The arrows I have picked up have been in perfect shape (no breaks or cracks). I use them for wing-spars and reinforcing foam on my R/C fix-winged aircraft.  

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Dan Beavers

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Dec 2, 2014, 11:37:33 AM12/2/14
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What do you mean by "used" arrows? I don't think of an arrow as use
once and throw away. What kind of sporting goods store - Academy?

On 2014-12-02 10:21, Chad Netto wrote:
> If you decide to use the carbon arrows and want them for free, check out
> your local sporting good store for used arrows. The arrows I have picked
> up have been in perfect shape (no breaks or cracks). I use them for
> wing-spars and reinforcing foam on my R/C fix-winged aircraft.
>
> On Tue Dec 02 2014 at 10:09:55 AM 'charles stewart' via
> grassrootsmapping <grassroo...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:grassroo...@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>
> Anybody consider Banner poles ?. I have them up to 25 feet. They
> collapse to about five feet. They may be longer ones. Try searching
> Banner poles. That may work.
> God Bless
> Charles Stewart
> High Spirits
> www.letsflykites.com <http://www.letsflykites.com>
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 2, 2014 1:28 AM, Dan Beavers
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Chad Netto

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Dec 2, 2014, 12:19:32 PM12/2/14
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I came across the idea on a R/C forum. I called a local "mom and pop" shop and they had a 5 gallon bucket full of arrows that they were going to throw away. I never asked why they have "used" arrow, I just grab a couple and said thank you. I can also tell you that I couldn't find anything wrong with them. I cut off the "fins", unscrewed the tip and cut them to size.
On Tue Dec 02 2014 at 10:37:33 AM Dan Beavers <dan.b...@acm.org> wrote:
What do you mean by "used" arrows?  I don't think of an arrow as use
once and throw away.  What kind of sporting goods store - Academy?

On 2014-12-02 10:21, Chad Netto wrote:
> If you decide to use the carbon arrows and want them for free, check out
> your local sporting good store for used arrows. The arrows I have picked
> up have been in perfect shape (no breaks or cracks). I use them for
> wing-spars and reinforcing foam on my R/C fix-winged aircraft.
>
> On Tue Dec 02 2014 at 10:09:55 AM 'charles stewart' via
>          > <mailto:nunes.melissa.m@gmail.com>> wrote:
>          >
>          >    My favourite kite
>          >    <http://www.prismkites.com/products-sl-stowaway_delta.php>
>         has poles
>          >    that collapse like tent poles, but it is pretty small ( a
>         5' wide
>          >    delta ). It would be awesome to update my home-made 8'
>         delta to
>          >    replace its bamboo poles for fiberglass poles that
>         collapse. This
>          >    would make getting around with my kite much easier and more
>          >    enjoyable (think bikes and buses).
>          >
>          >    I was thinking I could order some fiberglass rods, string some
>          >    elastic string through two rods, and use metal cylindar
>         pieces to
>          >    hold the two together and rigid.
>          >
>          >    Do any of you have any experience or ideas about that?
>         (Like where
>          >    online is recommended to obtain these items)
>          >
>          >    Thanks!
>          >
>          >    Melissa Nunes
>          >
>          >    --
>          >    Post to this group at grassrootsmapping@googlegroups.com
>          >    <mailto:grassrootsmapping@googlegroups.com>

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Chris Fastie

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Dec 2, 2014, 9:27:01 PM12/2/14
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Free discarded arrows are a fantastic find. I drop by my local hunting goods store regularly to beg for the cut ends of wrapped carbon fiber tubes. These five inch long pieces remain after the stock tube is cut to length for a new arrow, and they are perfect for the shaft of the Picavet suspension I make. I have never seen entire arrows discarded. I buy longer tubes online for the shafts of the pendulum suspensions I make.

I have also used wrapped carbon tubes to make replacements for the cross spars in my Levitation Delta and Fled kites. These are lighter than the fiberglass used in the Levitation and heavier than the skinny pultruded carbon tubes used in the Fled. They are stronger than either original spar. Both of these kites have two piece cross spars, and the ferrule in the middle is the place where the spars break. So I have made three piece versions with two ferrules which are considered to be less prone to breaking (the gods can't decide which joint to focus on). This also makes the kites easier to transport (I only brought the three piece Fled spar to Cocodrie). 

For a more transportable kite, four section spars are not unheard of. But for bike transport, 33 inch long spar sections are not that onerous. I don't know if there is much advantage to shock cording the spars. It adds weight for a minor gain in convenience. And wrapped carbon tubes are best connected with internal ferrules, which makes shock cording impossible.

Wrapped carbon fiber tubes are reasonably expensive. A 32.5 inch tube generally costs $9.00. I always buy them from Kites and Fun Things because they always seem to have blemished or otherwise discounted stock. Right now they have several types of blemished Sky Shark tubes for $2.50 a piece if you buy ten. I am tempted but I just stocked up a few months ago. The version I have used is P300 (table of types). The ferrule to use with these is a 0.24 inch diameter solid carbon rod sold in 2.5 inch pieces for $0.65. Just glue it half way into the end of the tube. Kites and Fun Things also sells the vinyl end caps for the spars.

Two or three section P300 Sky Shark spars would be a substantial upgrade to a bamboo sparred kite. They might weigh about 75% (?) of a similar strength fiberglass spar.

Liz Barry

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Dec 3, 2014, 6:23:32 PM12/3/14
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There's a lot of awesome material in this thread. Can someone create a wiki page for this material or suggest a place on an existing wiki page where it would fit well?

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