[Manuel Carrasco Moñino]

Dear contributors:

In my opinion there is a lot of stuff in our site which is obsolete, or is not useful or even could confuse new developers.

I also spoke with Julien and he agrees that we should remove many of the entries, so we want open a thread before in the mailing list to get some feedback from you.

Although we can remove those page totally from the site, I think it should be fine if we remove links from our TOC, so as they start being removed from crawlers, but we don't break external links.

These are the items I consider to be removed:

* Tutorials -> AJAX Communication.

    - Introduction: is quite trivial and most people knows about ajax.

    - RPC: it's an old protocol

    - JSON: it's a tedious task and makes the user feel that JSON in GWT is laborious, it says nothing about autobeans, or many popular gwt libraries widely used.

    - Cros-site: it's out dated since does not say anything about modern CORS

    - JSON php: I don't think so many people are interested on php

    I think everything here is obsolete or confusing. The only thing to maintain could be RPC, but 

    

   So in my opinion we could either remove all points here, or just maintain the RPC section, picking up some paragraphs from the introduction, adding a disclaimer about it is a former protocol, and noticing that there are many other 3party options nowadays.

   

* Tutorials -> jUnit testing

   We could remove this, since we already have a doc about junit, and we don't have to maintain this page which is outdated and a complex section for beginners.

   

* Tutorials -> GAE Deploy

   I don't think we should maintain it. Half of the tutorial is about how to setup a GAE project and how to use some stuff in server side. I think most of our audience might not being using GAE and there is plenty of info about how to deal with GAE in other forums.

   

* Resources -> Presentations

   Everything here seems outdated 9/10 years ago, probably we should link or embed recent GWT events like GWT.create or GWTconf, but I think it's better to remove this section until we have something better.

   

* Resources -> Articles

    - GWT & Hibernate, is it still valid ?

    - Memory Leaks, is it still relevant ?

    - GWT iPhone, imo definetively should be removed.

* Resources -> Case Studies

   Probably we should disable this until we add some modern case studies because it seems like nothing happened in GWT since 2011

* Resources -> Developer Spotlight

   I don't see so much value here right now, Link to submit more stuff is broken, linked gallery does not work anymore, project list is a query to google code, and videos are very old.

   

I volunteer to remove all those entries after your feedback

Thanks

- Manolo

[Thomas Broyer]

On Thursday, July 16, 2015 at 10:50:12 AM UTC+2, Manuel Carrasco Moñino wrote:

Dear contributors:

In my opinion there is a lot of stuff in our site which is obsolete, or is not useful or even could confuse new developers.

+1

 

I also spoke with Julien and he agrees that we should remove many of the entries, so we want open a thread before in the mailing list to get some feedback from you.

Although we can remove those page totally from the site, I think it should be fine if we remove links from our TOC, so as they start being removed from crawlers, but we don't break external links.

+1

And add a notice/warning at the top of the "removed" pages.

 

These are the items I consider to be removed:

* Tutorials -> AJAX Communication.

    - Introduction: is quite trivial and most people knows about ajax.

    - RPC: it's an old protocol

…but we don't really have anything better to propose for now (RequestFactory? It doesn't really fit in a tutorial, too complex).

 

    - JSON: it's a tedious task and makes the user feel that JSON in GWT is laborious, it says nothing about autobeans, or many popular gwt libraries widely used.

…or JsInterop (though it's still "beta" as of the last release)

Also note that AutoBeans don't work well when the root of the JSON is an array.

I think the JSNI approach is OK until we can safely recommend JsInterop.

 

    - Cros-site: it's out dated since does not say anything about modern CORS

+1 to remove it.

 

    - JSON php: I don't think so many people are interested on php

I wouldn't bet on that ;-)

But +1 for "hiding" it.

 

    I think everything here is obsolete or confusing. The only thing to maintain could be RPC, but 

    

   So in my opinion we could either remove all points here, or just maintain the RPC section, picking up some paragraphs from the introduction, adding a disclaimer about it is a former protocol, and noticing that there are many other 3party options nowadays.

Sounds good.

 

  

* Tutorials -> jUnit testing

   We could remove this, since we already have a doc about junit, and we don't have to maintain this page which is outdated and a complex section for beginners.

I would simplify it (remove the part about running the tests: just run it like any other JUnit test, just make sure your sources are in the classpath –like with the compiler and devmode–, this is all taken care of for you by the plugin for Eclipse) but not remove it.

 

* Tutorials -> GAE Deploy

   I don't think we should maintain it. Half of the tutorial is about how to setup a GAE project and how to use some stuff in server side. I think most of our audience might not being using GAE and there is plenty of info about how to deal with GAE in other forums.

+1

But on the other hand, it's the only page on the site that talks about the AppEngineLauncher for DevMode.

 

* Resources -> Presentations

   Everything here seems outdated 9/10 years ago, probably we should link or embed recent GWT events like GWT.create or GWTconf, but I think it's better to remove this section until we have something better.

+1

 

  

* Resources -> Articles

    - GWT & Hibernate, is it still valid ?

    - Memory Leaks, is it still relevant ?

    - GWT iPhone, imo definetively should be removed.

+1

 

* Resources -> Case Studies

   Probably we should disable this until we add some modern case studies because it seems like nothing happened in GWT since 2011

+1

 

* Resources -> Developer Spotlight

   I don't see so much value here right now, Link to submit more stuff is broken, linked gallery does not work anymore, project list is a query to google code, and videos are very old.

+1

 

I volunteer to remove all those entries after your feedback

Next step: rework the page about DevMode to no longer talk about "classic" DevMode and the browser plugins.

[Jens]

I think I would not invest too much work into the current documentation. 

I strongly believe we should create a team of 2-3 people that re-think a new TOC along with a description what content each TOC entry should contain and then write up a new, up-to-date documentation for the 2.8 branch and later one for the 3.0+ branch. Without having a thought-out plan about the documentation I think GWT will never have great documentation. We need some people responsible for documentation.

Given your above proposal I think it is too much to remove. I would keep the whole Ajax section and maybe just update the content a bit (it is interesting for people coming from Swing, PHP is valid if you want to host some simple stuff on any web host like the stock watcher example, RPC is old but a valid choice because there is no suitable alternative inside GWT SDK). Tutorials -> Junit is also fine as its part of the stock watcher example app. Basically the whole "Tutorials" item is based on the stock watcher app and should not be treated as single tutorials. 

Also I think the GWT + Hibernate article is still valid (even for other JPA providers like Eclipselink which we use at work).

What I would definitely remove are:

- the GAE stuff

- all case studies

- developer spotlight (and then combine the remaining community pages under the Resources -> Community section)

- from the Examples page the Notes example as well as every example that is closed source and can not be easily tested in the browser right away (instead maybe use something like "these companies use GWT as well: ...")

- all presentations. Instead I would link up GWT.create presentations/videos and if some interesting stuff is missing you already know a session for the next GWT.create.

- all old books and all books not dealing with GWT proper (= no related books)

-- J.

[Manuel Carrasco Moñino]

Will work on improving RPC and JSON and not remove them.

And agree, devmode is the next step.

Also I want to write something about jsinterop although it's experimental.

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[Manuel Carrasco Moñino]

On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 1:04 PM, Jens <jens.ne...@gmail.com> wrote:

I think I would not invest too much work into the current documentation. 

That is the reason this proposal for removing obsolete documentation. It does not requires so much work.

 

I strongly believe we should create a team of 2-3 people that re-think a new TOC along with a description what content each TOC entry should contain and then write up a new, up-to-date documentation for the 2.8 branch and later one for the 3.0+ branch. Without having a thought-out plan about the documentation I think GWT will never have great documentation. We need some people responsible for documentation.

+1, but it sounds like it would not be immediate, so in the meanwhile we can just remove obsolete sections

 

Given your above proposal I think it is too much to remove. I would keep the whole Ajax section and maybe just update the content a bit (it is interesting for people coming from Swing, PHP is valid if you want to host some simple stuff on any web host like the stock watcher example, RPC is old but a valid choice because there is no suitable alternative inside GWT SDK). Tutorials -> Junit is also fine as its part of the stock watcher example app. Basically the whole "Tutorials" item is based on the stock watcher app and should not be treated as single tutorials. 

Well, being realistic, and at least in most projects I know few people using RPC in modern apps. They use solutions based on third party libraries and I have not seen large projects parsing Json by hand like we point in these tutorials.

My proposal is not remove RPC and hide the rest from menus write a paragraph in RPC enumerating some alternatives (RF, AutoBeans, RestyGWT, gwtquery.Ajax, etc), but the current tutorial handling json makes GWT look as a complicated framework for doing Ajax.

About the junit part we can simplify it like Thomas suggests. 

 

Also I think the GWT + Hibernate article is still valid (even for other JPA providers like Eclipselink which we use at work).

What I would definitely remove are:

- the GAE stuff

- all case studies

- developer spotlight (and then combine the remaining community pages under the Resources -> Community section)

- from the Examples page the Notes example as well as every example that is closed source and can not be easily tested in the browser right away (instead maybe use something like "these companies use GWT as well: ...")

- all presentations. Instead I would link up GWT.create presentations/videos and if some interesting stuff is missing you already know a session for the next GWT.create.

good point 

 

- all old books and all books not dealing with GWT proper (= no related books)

yes should be removed as well

 

-- J.

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