Bike Trails - Clarification Need about particular edit(s)

[Otter]

http://www.google.com/mapmaker?ll=41.723452,-93.581629&spn=0.003411,0.006609&t=k&z=17&iwloc=0_0&gw=55&editids=Oiz_1mcW02edCnGGGU&dtab=overview

 

I added a bike trail/path through the park and now I see that it has been deleted in favor of a longer bike path, but one in which it runs parallel to the road.  This against google's own policies is it not?  In areas where it breaks away from the road we are okay to add paths, but not were it runs parallel correct?  I can't tell who made the changes, but I am pretty sure this should not have been made and whomever is making these unnamed changes should know better.

 

Same with the trail just north that I added - http://www.google.com/mapmaker?ll=41.725646,-93.581489&spn=0.003411,0.006609&z=17&iwloc=0_0&gw=39&fid=9794912887195321403:10097939887817182600&dtab=overview

 

It is frustrating to see all these unnamed edits and especially ones that contradict google's own policies or make the edits worse.

[Saikrishna Arcot]

Yes, if it is near the road and easily accessible, I'd consider it as a sidewalk for the road.

[CNR Nair]

Can all side walks can be considered as bike trails ?

CNR

On Jun 22, 2011 5:35 PM, "Saikrishna Arcot" <saiar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, if it is near the road and easily accessible, I'd consider it as a
> sidewalk for the road.
>

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[majorgonzo]

That would be bad.  In many (if not most) states, bicycles are considered vehicles, and it is illegal to ride on sidewalks.  I doubt this gets enforced much, but the principle is still there.

[Tim]

What I've seen is that if it's built as a bike path (clearly wider and smoother than a sidewalk), it is drawn as a parallel trail/path. There is no option for roads to specify a bike path, only a bike lane. The option for sidewalk is referring only to pedestrians.

[Ryan Wallace]

Tim is correct. Sidewalks are for pedestrians only. If the path is
mutli-use (bicycle and pedestrian) then it should be mapped separately
to indicate to bicylists that a path without auto traffic is
available.

[IndianaRed]

Not according to Google's rules. So they either need to be changed or the attributes modified to give us a better definition.

[Otter]

Exactly -a ccording to Google's rules it doesn't matter if it is a bike path or wide side walk.  If you look at the guidelines it says that if a path runs parallel to the road that you don't build that section but can if it starts to stray away. 

 

We have several wide sidewalks in Ankeny that the city even designates as part of their bike trail system.  I tried to build one of these sidewalks that ran parallel to the road as a bike path and it got denied due to google's guideline.  I was going to fight it until I saw Raza post something that a similar parallel segment should have been denied and then started to make my edits with this understanding.. 

 

I would apperciate it if a google employee could please let us know the correct way to build these types of edits and why some of these edits are being made (I assume by google employees) against their own guidelines as I have understood them.

[Cory]

When you transition a path away from a road to a section parallel, the path should connect to the road. Basically the mapped road segment represents the sidewalk/path parallel to the road, but make sure to set the sidewalk and bike/pedestrian attributes for the road so that walking and biking directions will use it appropriately.  

In some places the connections look silly, but they should look fine in that area since there are sidewalks everywhere.  In other areas it doesn't look so great and I'm not really sure there can be a consistent solution to mapping them as Google's current preference doesn't cover every situation well.

I think "special" trails should get mapped regardless of parallel-ness, and I think if the trail has a name you can get past the reviewers.

[Ryan Wallace]

Just because Google's current guild lines (not rules) say otherwise
doesn't make them correct (they have back tracked on several stances
after learning guild lines are impractical, see ETA/PL). If I am a
biker and wish to get from point A to B along a busy four lane highway
(ie 45 mph or greater), it is misleading to tell me I will be
traveling along highway with that high speed traffic if there is a
separate bike path with no auto traffic available. In the vast
majority of major cities, it is illegal to ride your bike on the
sidewalk, so either the attributes for bicycle accommodations need to
be further refined or the facility should be mapped. In the absence of
the further refinement of the attributes, it is my belief that these
features should be mapped to avoid confusion for bicyclist.

[Otter]

I think someone from Google needs to clarify so that everyone is mapping under the same guidelines.


 Personally I would like extra wide sidewalks and bike paths mapped....I mean if we are going to map parking lot lanes why not bike paths.

[Otter]

Raza or any other google employees?  I am starting to map some trails in my area that will eventually run parallel to a road so it would be nice to figure this out.

 

Thanks!

[Raza]

Hi all,

@Otter, firstly, well done on picking this out. The edit made by the mapper to include the path parallel to the road is incorrect and is definitely not in line with our guidelines. I will ensure that feedback is provided to the mapper and the edit is reverted.

@Everyone, the points you make are definitely valid. But, we currently do not support mapping of trails that run parallel to roads, as it causes some routing problems. We are working on a better solution for mapping these trails, in the interim lets not map trails parallel to roads(except in a few cases specified below).

Here are a couple of guidelines to help you some more with trails parallel to roads:

- An unnamed path running parallel to a road that does not have significant independent geometry should not be added as an independent feature. It would be best to specify the "Bicycle" and "Pedestrian" access attributes of the road instead.
- As an exception, certain parallel paths can be mapped in the following cases:
1. If it has a unique name or 
2. If there exists an impassable barrier between the parallel path and the road such as a wall, railway track(s), a river etc.

Hope this clarifies :)

Thanks,

Raza