Why I think GMM needs to do away with anonymous users

[fhdogs]

I know I'm pretty out there, and vocal about my problems and experiences with GMM on these forums, but I really feel like it's the only way we have to communicate our problems and ideas. Issue tracker is fine if everybody has a problem, but it's clear that many issues fall to the back of the line and other users don't see them or care if they aren't affected.

I know GMM has been "working" for a while now, but in my opinion a large amount of the data can not be trusted. In areas where there are good and active RERs this probably isn't the case, but there are parts of the map, including in the US that do not have RERs and the review process is left to GRs (who aren't familiar with the area) and editors who may make changes on purpose or accident that can negatively impact the base maps.

By requiring users to create a nickname, or use their google acct name several problems can be addressed:

1. Reviewers and other users can visualize a users intentions. If a user makes several edits (good or bad) in an area it's helpful to know who that is incase we need to address them directly or identify a pattern.
2. Review requests and the forums. Sometimes an anonymous user makes a request in the forums, but without a direct link it's difficult to know what edit is theirs.
3. User accountability. In trying to figure out another problem I've been having I realized that and account that has never been used on GMM was able to review and be the final voice of approval for a particular edit. This means that in some cases a user could easily use multiple accounts to make changes, and it also may explain why I often see profiles with little to no history approving bad edits. Now I'm sure there is an algorithm to catch some of this (I'd hope!) but, the average reviewer could quickly spot patterns of User A always approving User B's bad edits.
4. Finally, I've seen way too many edits that people make believing they are creating a custom map. (My Map) It is very easy to stumble upon GMM and not understand that the changes you make have the potential to go live on the base maps. Examples like: "My house", negative and or personal comments, poor grammar, improper punctuation, clubs who use trails trying to mark them open and closed on a daily baises, and people marking geocaches or travel plans. All of these could be eliminated if a user was forced to "signup" and was presented with a page that explains GMM and maybe even provides some instruction.

I know there is a lot there, most of you won't read it all, or feel its been discussed and doesn't need to happen or never will anyway, but I wanted to put this out there so that maybe it can be discussed at upcoming conferences. 

-Mike

[fhdogs]

One more reason... I don't know how other's feel, but when I need to request details from somebody (especially a new user) it is much more personable if I can actually refer to them by name, especially if the comment request is slightly negative. If you can speak to somebody by name it might add to user retention since they feel more welcome. 

[Jaxcoffee]

You might consider developing your own personal profile fhdogs. I can't mouse over your name and find out anything about you. Might be a good place to start. Kind of a lead by example thing.

[fhdogs]

Where are you talking about Jax? Ever edit I've ever made in mapmaker is clearly identified by my username (fhdogs).

If you are referring to my G+, then that's a whole different topic. I don't think anybody should be required to provide personal details, I just want a way to know who is who. 

[Flash]

Hi Mike,

I too find Anonymous users somewhat frustrating, but really not all that bad.  GMM hasn't made it obvious how to change your name, so I don't blame people for being Anonymous.  In the end, though, each is an individual account with stats, and unless you are a major mapper that I recognize, stats are all I look at.  Yes, it's nice to know when I can trust a mapper more by just looking at the name, but most mappers that deserve that trust already have a name.

To cover you points:

1. The stats tell you if they are doing bad edits, even on an Anonymous account.  And if they are habitual offenders in my area, I can usually recognize them by their stats; as soon as I bring them up and see "342 edits since Feburary 2012, 67% approved" it is as much an identifier as a name.
2. A lot of forum names don't match the Maps name.  They are two different products, you can't force the names to match, unless you make them match their main Google account, which you just told Jax you don't agree should be revealed.
3. Except for one bug I found, every time I've seen an account with zero stats approve an edit, it is a bot that has hundreds of thousands of reviews.  I suppose it also be GRs with no edits also.  Don't forget, reviews don't show in the pop-up.
4. I'll agree with this, but again you can treat an Anonymous account just like one with a name; how are they really different?  I have a very polite copy and paste I put in for these situations, usually people respond with "Ops, sorry, didn't realize; I'll undo!"

I will completely agree with you on your added on message, being able to address someone by there name is an important conflict avoidance/resolution technique.  But I think the flip side is the number of people that will quit mapping if they have to reveal their name.  I meet more people who are worried about revealing anything on the internet than the opposite way; none of them will map if you make them reveal their name.  I'm sure that is probably the stat that Google keeps looking at in figuring out the benefit vs. loss of forcing names.

 

Perhaps you can encourage these Anonymous people.  Here's a copy and paste I use, it is at the end of my "New mapper - Bad edit" C&P, but I have something similar at then end of several C&Ps.  You'll notice that the mention of how to change your name is the last line, so I can easily delete it if they have already changed their name:

If you have any questions about mapping please do visit the help centre at http://goo.gl/eIWro, where among other things you can find a guide to each option and field within Map Maker.  You can also come ask questions at the forums found at http://goo.gl/msclQ, and you may want to set a user name and/or photo at http://www.google.com/hotpot?authuser=0.

[fhdogs]

I definitely don't blame anybody for being anonymous! I just don't think it should be the default situation. I do know to look at stats, but when one person or many are making poor edits without any history it can be hard to tell if it is malicious or many mistakes. But if anonymous654 and anonymous7653 make edits they can be quickly identified as different people if they both have thousands of edits or 0.

What I don't think should be required to be revealed is personal information. Jax doesn't need to know anything about me except that I'm the same person who wrote the first post in this topic. Where I live, and what other Google products I use is irrelevant to this topic. The same holds true to GMM. Personal accountability and personal transparency are two different things. By having a unique identifier each user is accountable for their actions. It still doesn't mean anybody needs to give personal information out.

The C&P idea is great! I'll use a similar idea! Unfortunately they don't work for somebody who's just screwing around, or using multiple accounts to push edits and spam through the process. 

[Andrew Sawyer]

There is Issue 105: Users should not be able to hide by not creating a profile for those who want to chime in. 

[Jaxcoffee]

Credibility and transparency shouldn't be an issue in any forum or program, of course unless you have something to hide, which I'm not implying. I just know that if I'm personally going to be pointing out a practice that someone else isn't  or is doing, I need to make sure I'm practicing what I'm preaching.

I just moused over your name in this forum, and didn't see any identity, so how much credibility does that give you?

Just asking, so please don't get all flamed up over it. I just found it odd.

[assa...@gmail.com]

Which is why I maintain a link to my G+ profile on these Groups. On G+ there is a link to my GMM profile. I also use the same photo in both places. I wonder if my GMM profile appears on a mouseover of my name in groups. I know the RER [R] icon appears next to my name. Potentially more customization on the groups profile for products would bring in the G+ profile but allow for the inclusion of the GMM profile inside of the Mapping groups.

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

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From: General Map Maker on behalf of Jaxcoffee <google-...@googlegroups.com>

Sender: General Map Maker on behalf of Jaxcoffee <google-...@googlegroups.com>

Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 13:38:51 -0700 (PDT)

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ReplyTo: General Map Maker on behalf of Jaxcoffee <google-...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: Why I think GMM needs to do away with anonymous users

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[fhdogs]

Hey Jax, No worries I'm not getting flamed up. I'm just trying to create healthy discussion. People need to be able to talk about things without getting pissed off. I'll give you a nod for me not having a profile in this forum. Just so you know, if I hover over my name a link to my profile shows. For other (including yourself) it does not. So you actually pointed this out to me. To be honest I don't use social media so my G+ has little content. I also don't think my profile or anybody's in this forum would help when edit history and activity is involved.

Now that I've learned that I wasn't, and how I can link my G+ to Google Groups. (again I don't use either often) I will update my profile and then add it. I apologize if I seemed upset at your other reply. 

I've also attached what I've always seen when I hover my name. To me I always thought that link took everyone else to my G+

Andrew, Your link shows, along with icons for other services (FB, blogger and others) Again I'll add my G+ link, but this still does nothing for GMM. Also I have starred that issue, and will join the discussion. Like I said I just wanted to get this discussion going to see if it is a valid topic for the conference. Since reviewing takes me longer than normal I'm living in the future while hoping somebody else figures out my problem. Otherwise I hope we can figure it out in Montreal.

[Jaxcoffee]

Hum....that's quite odd. I mouse over your name, and nothing comes up, I mouse over my name, Flash and Andrews and our entire profile shows.

Strange.

[fhdogs]

I think we are talking about a Groups bug now, but if you want to uncheck the link to my Google Profile box and compare we can. 

[fhdogs]

I should have said uncheck yours. If you uncheck it and still see a link to your profile I don't think anybody else will.

[Moid]

Hey Guys,

We hear you there! 

Please be assured that we are following up on the concerns regarding anonymous profiles. 

Thanks,

Moid

[Hotrodder]

Hey Moid,

That would be greatly appreciated.  In my general area there are at least 4 Anonymous users.  One is a bot the 2 more are new legit users and the third just runs around and approves things.  My does this bother me?  Yesterday, I had a meaningful conversation going with Anonymous about how to improve his posting of his business.  He replied, great perhaps I can help him and make him better.  Then before I get back to my computer from a day trip, Anonymous approves the edit.  What this does to the history column is that everything except my request for detail was done by multiple Anonymous users.  I can get a flavor of the regular mappers, other RER's and even GR's by remembering how and what they edit or review style.  Anonymous tells me nothing.

My 2 cents

Hotrodder!!