Allergen management model

[Bobby Krishna]

[AFS BY SPECIFICO & CO]

Hi Bobby,

 

I am not sure why you are posting this picture, is it to show us that this is a good practice or a bad one? people with specific allergy will have to avoid all items in the roastery and the deli in this case...

 

Rita

 

AFS by Specifico.

On Thursday, April 12, 2012 8:34:02 PM UTC+4, Bobby Krishna wrote:

Bobby krishna
Sent from my iPhone. Please ignore the spell errors

[Bobby Krishna]

Yes, people will allergy has to avoid eating from that place and they will if they read this. This is good communication.

We use the same procedure fr non halal foods as well- label them clearly so that people can avoid if they want to.

On the other hand, if someone claims that they have allergen free foods, try need to be sure about what they are doing.

Bobby krishna

Sent from my iPhone. Please ignore the spell errors

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[Bobby Krishna]

That is a tough call.

Look at the amount of nuts kept open in supermarkets ( in bins). Who can give a guarantee?

This is what is making me to mark 'exceptions' like the non halal foods.

Bobby krishna

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On Apr 15, 2012, at 2:20 PM, Guna Miskarova <Guna.Mi...@Exova.com> wrote:

Hi Bobby

 

We have to make sure that Effective food allergen management is not replaced with such information. In lot of cases it shows that company is not responsible and not able to manage food allergens.

 

Best regards

 

Guna Miskarova

Exova Middle East

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[Guna Miskarova]

Hi Bobby

 

We have to make sure that Effective food allergen management is not replaced with such information. In lot of cases it shows that company is not responsible and not able to manage food allergens.

 

Best regards

 

Guna Miskarova

Exova Middle East

 

From: foodsaf...@googlegroups.com [mailto:foodsaf...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Krishna
Sent: 15 April 2012 02:09 PM
To: AFS BY SPECIFICO & CO
Cc: foodsaf...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {Food Safety Dubai} Re: Allergen management model

 

Yes, people will allergy has to avoid eating from that place and they will if they read this. This is good communication.

[bigal]

Dear All,

Bobby is absolutely correct. We are talking microscopic quantities here.
In manufacturing, they effectively build a factory within a factory to try and eliminate any allergens.

In the hospitality industry and in supermarkets,it is impossible to guarantee that any product is free of a specific allergen.

Allan,

Higher Colleges of Technology.

[Richard Sprenger]

Allan

 

There are many catering businesses and supermarkets in the UK providing clear guidance on foods that are free of specific allergens.

 

What are you recommending for Dubai? I presume you are not suggesting that persons suffering from allergens avoid purchasing food – or take pot luck?

 

There is a tremendous amount that can be done to reduce the risk to acceptable levels – starting with clear labelling and good communication.

 

Regards

 

Richard

--

[Bobby Krishna]

Richard,

At this point, I think people with allergy are extremely cautious while eating in Dubai. However, establishments should not shy away from taking the responsibility to serve allergen free food.

It is going to be a huge challenge keeping the nuts used widely for garnishing and as an ingredient of curry pastes.

We need to think how small establishments are going to make things work.

My suggestion was to encourage  establishments to  prepare at least some foods that are allergen free. May be this should be encouraged by giving better inspection scores to establishments that have good allergen management plans.

Bobby krishna

Sent from my iPhone. Please ignore the spell errors

[Guna Miskarova]

Dear All

Seems that we are talking about two different subjects : 1) 'allergen free' and 2) 'free of specific allergen'. The last one is very realistic in catering, manufacturing and retail.

Kind regards
Guna

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From: Richard Sprenger <rspr...@highfield.co.uk>

Sender: "foodsaf...@googlegroups.com" <foodsaf...@googlegroups.com>

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 13:35:23 +0100

To: bigal<aho...@hct.ac.ae>; foodsaf...@googlegroups.com<foodsaf...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: RE: {Food Safety Dubai} Re: Allergen management model

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Exova is the trading name of Exova Group Limited, Exova Group BV and all subsidiaries therein.

Exova Group Ltd. Registered office: 6 Coronet Way, Centenary Park, Salford, Manchester M50 1RE. Registered in the United Kingdom, Company Number 06720350.

Exova Warringtonfire Aus Pty Ltd Registered office: Unit 2, 409-411 Hammond Road, Dandenong, VIC 3175, Australia, ABN 81 050 241 524.

Exova Group BV is registered in The Netherlands.

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail and any associated attachments.
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[Bobby Krishna]

Guna,

Free of specific allergen- its much more easier to do like the 'Peanut free' types.

However, if it is allergen free, we are talking about the big 8 or a similar list. This is not easy to implement. When I said allergen free, I was talking about this. 

Tree nuts such as almonds and pistachios (and coconuts) are very widely used in smaller food joints and avoiding cross contamination is almost next to impossible considering the size of most kitchens.

However, this is possible in hotels that have large kitchens.

Bobby krishna

Sent from my iPhone. Please ignore the spell errors

[bigal]

Richard,

This is not the UK.

 Comparisons are somewhat invidious.

Frankly, at the moment , it is a case of pot luck.

Allergies are not an issue with the majority of people in the UAE.

It is a concern of a minority, predominately from the West/ South Africa and Australasia.

Talk to the chefs in the hotels and restaurants in Dubai and ask them which customers raise any issues about allergies. They are from these regions and they are a minority. Even then, a lot of them are not that sure exactly what they are allergic to or it is usually more fashionably, food intolerance, which of course is different from an allergy.

“I can’t have dairy but butter’s OK!”

I am not trying to trivialize the problems of those with serious life threatening allergies but if I had those problems, I would not  visit anywhere outside of the UK!

Getting back to my main point, it is very difficult to achieve in the catering and hospitality industry here as Bobby has just reiterated.

Maybe the top end of the industry, 4/5 stars would be the place to start. What do they do already? From what I’ve seen on menus, etc. here , nothing.

But is it an issue here in the UAE?  What does the industry say? Is traceability up to the mark in this region? Don’t think so.

Statements that , for example, say this food or dish MAY contain nuts would be valid but FREE of nuts as some correspondents have suggested, I think not.

I look forward to further discussion.

Allan

On Monday, April 16, 2012 4:35:23 PM UTC+4, Richard Sprenger wrote:

Allan

 

There are many catering businesses and supermarkets in the UK providing clear guidance on foods that are free of specific allergens.

 

What are you recommending for Dubai? I presume you are not suggesting that persons suffering from allergens avoid purchasing food – or take pot luck?

 

There is a tremendous amount that can be done to reduce the risk to acceptable levels – starting with clear labelling and good communication.

 

Regards

 

Richard

 

 

 

From: foodsafetydubai@googlegroups.com [mailto:foodsafetydubai@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of bigal
Sent: 16 April 2012 11:40
To: foodsafetydubai@googlegroups.com
Subject: {Food Safety Dubai} Re: Allergen management model

 

Dear All,

Bobby is absolutely correct. We are talking microscopic quantities here.
In manufacturing, they effectively build a factory within a factory to try and eliminate any allergens.

In the hospitality industry and in supermarkets,it is impossible to guarantee that any product is free of a specific allergen.

Allan,

Higher Colleges of Technology.

On Thursday, April 12, 2012 8:34:02 PM UTC+4, Bobby Krishna wrote:

Bobby krishna
Sent from my iPhone. Please ignore the spell errors

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[Bobby Krishna]

Allan,

Recent studies have shown that the Asian/Indian subcontinent has high number of people with allergies. It is just that most of them do not know that they have an allergy due to the lack of proper diagnostic measures.

Regards

Bobby

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Bobby Krishna

Interested in food safety? 
 

[Richard Sprenger]

Dear Colleagues

 

I am really pleased that there appears to be support for improving allergen management in Dubai.

 

Allan you stated “In the hospitality industry and in supermarkets, it is impossible to guarantee that any product is free of a specific allergen”  You didn’t state in Dubai, the UK or worldwide.

 

I am not making any comparisons just advising that things can be improved with commitment and training.

 

However, as you raised “comparisons” many of the larger businesses in Dubai are of a similar standard to the UK in fact some of the 4/5 star hotels and supermarkets have higher standards in certain areas than most countries throughout the world, including the UK. I would have thought that they would be keen to improve allergen management to the same standards.

 

Even if you are correct in stating “allergies are not an issue with the majority of people in the UAE” (and this may be for the reasons Bobby outlined) you should not disregard the importance of tourism and the number of tourists visiting Dubai/UAE. What impact do you think it would have on tourism when a couple of tourists die because of mistakes that could easily be avoided?

I cannot subscribe to “I have an allergy so I will not travel” – this does not seem right

 

There are indications that some businesses in Dubai are trying to improve allergen management. I was recently asked by the waiter in a fish Restaurant at the Atlantis whether I had any allergens – before I ordered my meal. On the other hand when I asked for a fruit salad without melon at another restaurant at the Atlantis, I was assured the fruit salad did not contain melon. I was served a fruit salad with water melon at the bottom. If I had had a serious allergy I could have been in trouble. This situation could easily have been avoided.

 

It may be difficult to have 100% assurance with suppliers but it is relatively simple to reduce the risks by ensuring that if people are allergic to a specific food they are not served it.

 

We can remove the majority of risks by starting with management commitment,  good labelling, effective communication and staff training. Once we have the basics in place we can consider how to improve the supply chain.

 

Let us be positive and work together to raise standards. Allan said, referring to 4/5 star hotels, that from his experience “What do they do already? From what I’ve seen on menus, etc. here , nothing”.  I do not believe this to be the case – let us have some examples of hotels that are tackling this problem.

 

HABC will make a start by organising a CPD event on allergen management. Any of you that have implemented allergen management systems in your business and would like to share your experience with other businesses – please contact me

 

Best wishes

 

Richard

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[Arsalan Zai]

Dear Richard

I agree with you! Many organizations in Dubai are now getting aware of Allergen issues. Some are learning by experience, some through training and also some through tourist (who ask allergen free food). Tourism and Hospitality (including restaurants) is the backbone of Dubai and if the food isn't safe for tourist (or any one else) it would be a big let-down.

Of course 4/5 star hotels are in a better shape than others to control allergen issues. Many hotels ask the preferences of the guests at the time of booking or at the time of taking orders. Specially if its an in-house guest all the preferences (including allergies) are communicated to every department very specifically and controls are put into place immediately. However this kind of management would be difficult to find in a small or medium sized restaurant. The difference is of understanding / training / education (most importantly), resources, etc.

Also we should not forget the food manufacturers. They also have good resources but the problem is understanding. I know a production manager who thought that if we want to pass cashew from a conveyor belt which was earlier used for peanuts, then no cleaning is required in between (as both dry nuts). I explained to him the allergen problems and now they do cleaning after every change over. 

So, I suggest that the focus should be on resourceful organization first and try to build a model for allergen management. Later that model can be modified for smaller organizations. Otherwise the task to build a system for whole food industry of Dubai at the same time would be too steep.

Kind regards

Arsalan Zai

[Bobby Krishna]

would be good to hear from the hotel team on the feasibility.
Somone please.

Bobby

[Bobby Krishna]

would be good to hear from the hotel team on the