walk before you run; start slow and correct and then speed up
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Elliot Temple
May 1, 2018, 12:53:29 AM5/1/18
to FI, FIGG
i was watching an overwatch guy doing teaching stuff[1] and he was telling ppl to stop playing so fast. you need to learn to walk before you can run. you see great players playing fast and you copy them and it’s fun. but you have to understand what you’re doing. learn to play slowly and correctly and use every action productively, then speed up once you know the right things to do.
i'm paraphrasing a little but it was really a lot like that. it overlapped a ton with what i say about overreaching. it's actually a semi-well-known point about how to learn: do things correctly and slowly (and less ambitious things), then speed up when you know what to do. do NOT start fast with errors and then try to fix the errors. first learn not to make the errors, learn to do the right thing, then do it faster. the same advice comes up with e.g. learning typing. you should type correctly and speed up. don't begin by typing fast and making lots of mistakes and then try to fix the mistakes while still going fast – that's a less effective way to learn.
[1] http://twitch.tv/kabajiow/videos/archive
Elliot Temple
www.elliottemple.com
i'm paraphrasing a little but it was really a lot like that. it overlapped a ton with what i say about overreaching. it's actually a semi-well-known point about how to learn: do things correctly and slowly (and less ambitious things), then speed up when you know what to do. do NOT start fast with errors and then try to fix the errors. first learn not to make the errors, learn to do the right thing, then do it faster. the same advice comes up with e.g. learning typing. you should type correctly and speed up. don't begin by typing fast and making lots of mistakes and then try to fix the mistakes while still going fast – that's a less effective way to learn.
[1] http://twitch.tv/kabajiow/videos/archive
Elliot Temple
www.elliottemple.com
Zyn Evam
May 2, 2018, 12:37:31 PM5/2/18
to FI, FIGG
2018-05-01 5:53 GMT+01:00 Elliot Temple cu...@curi.us [fallible-ideas]
<fallibl...@yahoogroups.com>:
metronome and learn a piece by gradually increasing speed. it is
difficult to fix mistakes which you pick up as a result of practicing
at the wrong speed (i.e. if you overreach). you might fool some
people. you can learn to cover up your mistakes at higher speeds. you
can make a habit of evasions instead of error correction. but you will
compromise clarity, precision, expression, and beauty.
<fallibl...@yahoogroups.com>:
> i was watching an overwatch guy doing teaching stuff[1] and he was telling ppl to stop playing so fast. you need to learn to walk before you can run. you see great players playing fast and you copy them and it’s fun. but you have to understand what you’re doing. learn to play slowly and correctly and use every action productively, then speed up once you know the right things to do.
>
> i'm paraphrasing a little but it was really a lot like that. it overlapped a ton with what i say about overreaching. it's actually a semi-well-known point about how to learn: do things correctly and slowly (and less ambitious things), then speed up when you know what to do. do NOT start fast with errors and then try to fix the errors. first learn not to make the errors, learn to do the right thing, then do it faster. the same advice comes up with e.g. learning typing. you should type correctly and speed up. don't begin by typing fast and making lots of mistakes and then try to fix the mistakes while still going fast – that's a less effective way to learn.
same advice for learning to play an instrument. you should use a
>
> i'm paraphrasing a little but it was really a lot like that. it overlapped a ton with what i say about overreaching. it's actually a semi-well-known point about how to learn: do things correctly and slowly (and less ambitious things), then speed up when you know what to do. do NOT start fast with errors and then try to fix the errors. first learn not to make the errors, learn to do the right thing, then do it faster. the same advice comes up with e.g. learning typing. you should type correctly and speed up. don't begin by typing fast and making lots of mistakes and then try to fix the mistakes while still going fast – that's a less effective way to learn.
metronome and learn a piece by gradually increasing speed. it is
difficult to fix mistakes which you pick up as a result of practicing
at the wrong speed (i.e. if you overreach). you might fool some
people. you can learn to cover up your mistakes at higher speeds. you
can make a habit of evasions instead of error correction. but you will
compromise clarity, precision, expression, and beauty.
Alisa Zinov'yevna Rosenbaum
May 2, 2018, 3:04:17 PM5/2/18
to fallibl...@googlegroups.com, FI
On Wed, May 02, 2018 at 05:37:30PM +0100, Zyn Evam wrote:
> 2018-05-01 5:53 GMT+01:00 Elliot Temple wrote:
>> i was watching an overwatch guy doing teaching stuff[1] and he was telling ppl to stop playing so fast. you need to learn to walk before you can run. you see great players playing fast and you copy them and it’s fun. but you have to understand what you’re doing. learn to play slowly and correctly and use every action productively, then speed up once you know the right things to do.
>>
>> i'm paraphrasing a little but it was really a lot like that. it overlapped a ton with what i say about overreaching. it's actually a semi-well-known point about how to learn: do things correctly and slowly (and less ambitious things), then speed up when you know what to do. do NOT start fast with errors and then try to fix the errors. first learn not to make the errors, learn to do the right thing, then do it faster. the same advice comes up with e.g. learning typing. you should type correctly and speed up. don't begin by typing fast and making lots of mistakes and then try to fix the mistakes while still going fast – that's a less effective way to learn.
>
> same advice for learning to play an instrument.
> you should use a metronome and learn a piece by gradually increasing speed.
When learning a new instrument, it would be better to first learn how to make the instrument produce sound.
Gradually increasing speed with a metronome is more for learning a new piece of music on an instrument that you already know. In this situation, you could also start out without a metronome and just try to play the notes in the right order.
> it is difficult to fix mistakes which you pick up as a result of practicing at the wrong speed (i.e. if you overreach).
"difficult" is vague here. "difficult" compared to what? Are mistakes that result from practicing at the wrong speed more difficult to fix than mistakes that you picked up while trying to look good? Or while trying not to play quietly so as not to disturb your parents?
> you might fool some people. you can learn to cover up your mistakes at higher speeds.
Good point. If you play lots of notes quickly, some listeners won't notice if you play some individual notes wrong. But the best listeners will notice.
> you can make a habit of evasions instead of error correction.
Why place evasions in opposition to error correction? You can make a habit of doing anything instead of anything else.
> but you will compromise clarity, precision, expression, and beauty.
Is that a complete list? If not, how did you select those four things?
> 2018-05-01 5:53 GMT+01:00 Elliot Temple wrote:
>> i was watching an overwatch guy doing teaching stuff[1] and he was telling ppl to stop playing so fast. you need to learn to walk before you can run. you see great players playing fast and you copy them and it’s fun. but you have to understand what you’re doing. learn to play slowly and correctly and use every action productively, then speed up once you know the right things to do.
>>
>> i'm paraphrasing a little but it was really a lot like that. it overlapped a ton with what i say about overreaching. it's actually a semi-well-known point about how to learn: do things correctly and slowly (and less ambitious things), then speed up when you know what to do. do NOT start fast with errors and then try to fix the errors. first learn not to make the errors, learn to do the right thing, then do it faster. the same advice comes up with e.g. learning typing. you should type correctly and speed up. don't begin by typing fast and making lots of mistakes and then try to fix the mistakes while still going fast – that's a less effective way to learn.
>
> same advice for learning to play an instrument.
> you should use a metronome and learn a piece by gradually increasing speed.
Gradually increasing speed with a metronome is more for learning a new piece of music on an instrument that you already know. In this situation, you could also start out without a metronome and just try to play the notes in the right order.
> it is difficult to fix mistakes which you pick up as a result of practicing at the wrong speed (i.e. if you overreach).
> you might fool some people. you can learn to cover up your mistakes at higher speeds.
> you can make a habit of evasions instead of error correction.
> but you will compromise clarity, precision, expression, and beauty.
Alisa Zinov'yevna Rosenbaum
May 2, 2018, 3:37:28 PM5/2/18
to fallibl...@googlegroups.com, FI
On Wed, May 02, 2018 at 12:04:14PM -0700, Alisa Zinov'yevna Rosenbaum wrote:
> Or while trying not to play quietly so as not to disturb your parents?
This sentence has a typo: the first "not" should be removed.
> Or while trying not to play quietly so as not to disturb your parents?
Also, "so as not to" is convoluted writing, because of the negative word "not". One thing that can help is to replace explicit negatives (such as like "not X") with positive phrases in which the negative is implied. For example:
- "play quietly so as not to disturb your parents" -> "play quietly to avoid disturbing your parents"
Another example:
- "I don't want you to have any misunderstandings." -> "I want you to understand."
Zyn Evam
May 4, 2018, 8:58:21 AM5/4/18
to FI, FIGG
2018-05-02 20:04 GMT+01:00 Alisa Zinov'yevna Rosenbaum
petrogradp...@gmail.com [fallible-ideas]
<fallibl...@yahoogroups.com>:
them instead of not having to deal with them in the first place. If
you acquired the right techniques from the beginning, while you were
practicing slowly, you could reach higher speeds faster. It is more
efficient that way.
>> you might fool some people. you can learn to cover up your mistakes at higher speeds.
>
> Good point. If you play lots of notes quickly, some listeners won't notice if you play some individual notes wrong. But the best listeners will notice.
>
>> you can make a habit of evasions instead of error correction.
>
> Why place evasions in opposition to error correction? You can make a habit of doing anything instead of anything else.
Good point. If I wanted to use "instead of", I should have written
something like: "you can evade your errors instead of facing them."
>> but you will compromise clarity, precision, expression, and beauty.
>
> Is that a complete list? If not, how did you select those four things?
I think it is not a complete list. I was thinking for some time about
what to include. These were the first four things that came to my mind
which I thought were important in this context.
petrogradp...@gmail.com [fallible-ideas]
<fallibl...@yahoogroups.com>:
> On Wed, May 02, 2018 at 05:37:30PM +0100, Zyn Evam wrote:
>
>> 2018-05-01 5:53 GMT+01:00 Elliot Temple wrote:
>
>>> i was watching an overwatch guy doing teaching stuff[1] and he was telling ppl to stop playing so fast. you need to learn to walk before you can run. you see great players playing fast and you copy them and it’s fun. but you have to understand what you’re doing. learn to play slowly and correctly and use every action productively, then speed up once you know the right things to do.
>>>
>>> i'm paraphrasing a little but it was really a lot like that. it overlapped a ton with what i say about overreaching. it's actually a semi-well-known point about how to learn: do things correctly and slowly (and less ambitious things), then speed up when you know what to do. do NOT start fast with errors and then try to fix the errors. first learn not to make the errors, learn to do the right thing, then do it faster. the same advice comes up with e.g. learning typing. you should type correctly and speed up. don't begin by typing fast and making lots of mistakes and then try to fix the mistakes while still going fast – that's a less effective way to learn.
>>
>> same advice for learning to play an instrument.
>
>> you should use a metronome and learn a piece by gradually increasing speed.
>
> When learning a new instrument, it would be better to first learn how to make the instrument produce sound.
>
> Gradually increasing speed with a metronome is more for learning a new piece of music on an instrument that you already know. In this situation, you could also start out without a metronome and just try to play the notes in the right order.
>
>> it is difficult to fix mistakes which you pick up as a result of practicing at the wrong speed (i.e. if you overreach).
>
> "difficult" is vague here. "difficult" compared to what?
Good point. What I wanted to say is that it is more difficult to fix
>
>> 2018-05-01 5:53 GMT+01:00 Elliot Temple wrote:
>
>>> i was watching an overwatch guy doing teaching stuff[1] and he was telling ppl to stop playing so fast. you need to learn to walk before you can run. you see great players playing fast and you copy them and it’s fun. but you have to understand what you’re doing. learn to play slowly and correctly and use every action productively, then speed up once you know the right things to do.
>>>
>>> i'm paraphrasing a little but it was really a lot like that. it overlapped a ton with what i say about overreaching. it's actually a semi-well-known point about how to learn: do things correctly and slowly (and less ambitious things), then speed up when you know what to do. do NOT start fast with errors and then try to fix the errors. first learn not to make the errors, learn to do the right thing, then do it faster. the same advice comes up with e.g. learning typing. you should type correctly and speed up. don't begin by typing fast and making lots of mistakes and then try to fix the mistakes while still going fast – that's a less effective way to learn.
>>
>> same advice for learning to play an instrument.
>
>> you should use a metronome and learn a piece by gradually increasing speed.
>
> When learning a new instrument, it would be better to first learn how to make the instrument produce sound.
>
> Gradually increasing speed with a metronome is more for learning a new piece of music on an instrument that you already know. In this situation, you could also start out without a metronome and just try to play the notes in the right order.
>
>> it is difficult to fix mistakes which you pick up as a result of practicing at the wrong speed (i.e. if you overreach).
>
> "difficult" is vague here. "difficult" compared to what?
them instead of not having to deal with them in the first place. If
you acquired the right techniques from the beginning, while you were
practicing slowly, you could reach higher speeds faster. It is more
efficient that way.
>> you might fool some people. you can learn to cover up your mistakes at higher speeds.
>
> Good point. If you play lots of notes quickly, some listeners won't notice if you play some individual notes wrong. But the best listeners will notice.
>
>> you can make a habit of evasions instead of error correction.
>
> Why place evasions in opposition to error correction? You can make a habit of doing anything instead of anything else.
something like: "you can evade your errors instead of facing them."
>> but you will compromise clarity, precision, expression, and beauty.
>
> Is that a complete list? If not, how did you select those four things?
what to include. These were the first four things that came to my mind
which I thought were important in this context.
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