Re: Response to Graeme e mails on Response to Jawadeh's email

[jawadeh]

Hi Graeme,

- I wish I've written my e mail (with the love story comment) earlier to get yours & the committee's attention

- The intention of all my e mails (This one & all the previous ones) wasn't at all to belittle the work of the committee ...But on the contrary the intention was "a blow of a gentle wind" to try to redirect your huge momentum which seemed to be affected and dented by the hydra old trick of applying maximum pressure "of no compromise" for the opponent to eventually accept a kiss on the forehead against his lost money (and sleep happily ever after). 

- As I did mention in my previous e mails........ Hydra since its inception has predefined its goals (to make money at whatever cost even @ the expense of reputation ....I haven't seen this happening during my 30 years in construction except from 2006 to date)...They are doing every thing else but construction.....And this is the irony..... They are supposed to make money out of construction.....Don't you get it Graeme !!! What we are negotiating them for  ?? It is supposed to be construction against our money ....Not money against the terms of the contract after two years of not doing construction...... The ground of negotiation is going astray (in my opinion without the intention of belittling the committee's works).........Most of the group did not sign a contract to re negotiate the terms......And even if some did sign ......Hydra defaulted to deliver construction against your signature , and this is a way out !! 

- I did try the negotiation's track and walked thru. all routs possible to resolve amicably with hydra......BUT they wouldn't bend an inch ( Because they don't know what the hell they are talking about...they are defaulting and still acting strong)............Graeme , in some other country's what hydra is doing is an obvious image of fr......!!........I do hope from the bottom of my heart and for the sake of the last 25 years living in UAE ....... Abu Dhabi's wise government would protect Abu Dhabi's glorious reputation by enacting laws to stop such unprofessional companies . 

 

- What are your goals ?......You never answered me.!!...For me to understand the committee's track for resolving this issue...... (you said complicated issue.....I say pure contractual matters to be resolved only by law).

 

- What are we afraid of.??.....if we all stop payments .....the project would stop......Then again the law has to resolve the issue......and when the lawyers are in action .......the only thing they will find out is.............. SOMEBODY PAID MONEY FOR SOMEBODY TO DO CONSTRUCTION AND THAT SOMEBODY WHO IS SUPPOSED TO DO DO CONSTRUCTION IS BUSY DOING SOME THING ELSE ........ it wont be possible to be litigated differently...!! ...so don't worry.

 

- By the way some body from the group asked me to add to my suggested group's goals : Hydra should compensate the investors against the "lost opportunity" of keeping investor's money for 2 years without delivering construction.....and it is a correct legal argument......and should be added.

 

- For the group's enlightenment :-........I have a similar legal case against a developer in Abu Dhabi .........The developer has not performed.......The court has appointed a neutral technical 3rd party to visit the site and make a field report........The 3rd party visited the site and made a report with recommendations to the court.........The report submitted to the court........The court accepted the content of the report.......The report's content was "that the said developer has not performed and it wont be possible for him to finish the project as per the original agreement and we do recommend the refund of all the money paid by the investor plus compensation interest from the time the money was invested"........The court accepted the recommendations of the 3rd party's report.........And we are now awaiting the final ruling of the court to reinforce the claim......This is not a love story ...it is a real story on going now in Abu Dhabi's courts.........So don't waste you time for complicated negotiations with hydra for very little to be gained.........We as a group could gain a lot and win the case if we proceed  legally now.......Confirm and let me know if you want me to set similar procedures to my case above........Graeme , I'm in the construction business for so long time and I do advise you all .....If you want to protect your money ....proceed legally now......negotiating with hydra would only get you construction for your grand children on 2016++++........It would be stupid if we should wait on somebody obviously defaulted the contract..... And leave our money at risk.   

  

What are the committee' goals for us to understand before it is too late to have a different rout..... (My intentions are always  " ONE FOR ALL AND ALL FOR ONE to succeed" ..... ).........Don't you worry of refunding my Dh 600 if we choose diff routs.... consider it a contribution to a work well done......Or we might after all have some benefits against your negotiations with hydra.......I truly wish you luck....

 

 

 "I have learned that people will forget what you said,  people forget what you did, but they never forget how you made them feel."..........Maya Angelou

 

 Regards to all

Jamal

From: Hydra Investors

Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 11:27 PM

To: Abdul Rahim ; Adam Schreck ; Adnan Shabbir ; Ahmad Qadri ; ahmed alkaabi ; Ahmed Butt ; Ahmed Halil ; Ahmed Hussein Al Jbori ; Ajey Prakash Lohia ; Ajit Juriashinghani ; Alexandria Till ; Ali Mohammed Abbas Khourl ; Ali Moosavi ; Amanda Clarke ; Amarhans ; Anas Sawaf ; Andrew Macfarlane ; Andrew Tice ; Anis Osman ; Anis Suterwalla ; Anita Nyenhuis ; Ann Barrell ; Anne Tice ; Antonio Alves ; Arfan Mohammed ; Arif Kachalia ; Ashok Motwani ; Ashokkumar Patel ; Asif Ahmed ; Asif Oomer ; Asif, Bashir ; Asmat Lone ; Aweke Bekel ; Barbara Ginn ; Bhimji Tukadia ; Billy Rodgers ; Bradley Hope ; Brent Gregson ; Brian & Elana Kiane ; Carolyn Munson ; Champika Gamage ; Chandir Ramani ; Charles Mercieca ; Charlie Hermon ; Chris Rothero ; Cilent Love ; Clive Atherton ; Clive Richards ; Colleen & John Fish ; dale kavanagh ; damo byrne ; Dan Keogh ; Darren Jones ; Dave Heino ; David Schurink ; Davoud Mokhtassi ; Debasis Manna ; Dharmesh Belani ; dhia ghanem ; Dominic Docherty ; Dr Sinha ; Ehab Abu Zolof ; Elias Samaha ; Elliot Brennan ; Elzaan Booysen ; Eric Gramigni ; Erla Van Tonder ; Fadi Farhat ; fahim aziz ; Faisal Al Hashmi ; Fayez Ibbini ; Faysal Motya ; Finn Zwager & Sam Dobson ; Fiona Brown ; Fords ; Frankie Sutton ; Gareth Dennison ; ghislaine plancade ; Ghulam Murtazar ; Graeme Perry ; Guy Sumner-Lockwood ; Hadi Anwar ; Haitham Al Marzouqi ; Haroon Awan ; Harry Maltby ; Harvinder Sahni ; Healthy Pop ; Helen Huggett ; Helen Newman ; Hema & Karl Bennett ; Hendrik-Jan Steneker ; Hesham Ah ; Humayan Qadri ; Huneza Usman ; Hydra Investors ; Hydra Problem ; Hydra Wisesha ; hydrainv...@gmail.com ; Ian Leibrick ; Iman Finaish ; Imran Badami ; Imran Mufti ; Imrann Kolia ; Imtiaz Shah ; Indish Minocha ; Irwan Tengah ; Ivan Zammataro ; Iyad Sabouni ; Jacqui Stransky ; Jahangir Ahmed ; Jaidev Himthani ; Jamal Awadeh ; James & Tina Burdett ; James Alderdice ; James B. 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Subject: Response to Jawadeh's email

Evening folks,

I want to respond to Jamal's email below, and thought it an opportune time to give a general overview of what the group has achieved in the short time it has been in existence.

This mail is not on behalf of the committee, but from myself. 

I'm very happy that group members send in their concerns..in fact I want to encourage it so we continue to gauge the concerns of all members. At times, however, it's simply impossible to reply to everyone, but be assured every single email is read and every viewpoint is considered.

This group first started with about five people trying to get some justice from Hydra. As I'm sure most of you found out, despite Hydra's insistence at the time that they only "deal with individuals", it was virtually impossible to get any sense from the customer service department, and there was certainly no chance of getting any improvement to the contract.

I ended up meeting the other "co-founder" of this group in the Hydra office one afternoon, and realised that there were many others in the same situation. Through many different means (facebook, website and the occasional newspaper article), we managed to publicize our group, and it quickly grew. Initially, Hydra refused to acknowledge us but as our concerted media campaign eventually took hold, they finally accepted us a powerful advocacy group for many, many investors.

As the workload grew, we accepted help from a number of very skilled members, including architects, lawyers, academics, accountants, financial advisers, quantity surveyors, media experts and local Emirati advisers. This skilled group of people now forms our executive committee; a voluntary, non-elected group of members who give their time and expertise to work through the myriad issues that complicate this whole situation.

There is no simple solution to this affair. Of our 350 members, there are probably 30 different groups of people in 30 different situations. As a committee, we have gathered together an enormous amount of information about Hydra, about the property market in general, about the legal and contractual situation in Abu Dhabi, and numerous other information from many sources. This information allows us to work through various different scenarios to effect a satisfactory resolution to what at the moment is a complete mess.

To date, we have achieved what no-one else has managed. Sensible, high level discussions with Hydra on many contentious contract clauses, and discussion with them about how to regain investor confidence with the company. We are attempting to conduct a process of due diligence on the company to access its genuine ability to complete these projects as promised. In parallel to these processes, we also have a number of other strategies in place should these actions end up ineffectual. We are also about to enter discussions with the banks regarding finance and interest payments. We retain close links to the media should we need to gear up our media campaign again.

As a skilled and highly resourced group, we have taken advice on litigation, and are very aware of the extreme difficulties that option presents. It will never be ruled out, and always remains an option, but in the first instance, there is much that can be achieved within the power of the group without resorting immediately to expensive litigation. 

As someone who has put hundreds and hundreds of hours into this group, I take personal exception to a couple of the remarks below. that the committee's goals is to get some attention from hydra......It feels we are not dealing contractual....... BUT rather a love story between two lovers trying to make out....!   I am very confident that the professional skills of the committee are working in the best interests of the very large majority of investors. Commenting about "two lovers" denigrates the substantial amount of progress the committee has made to date. Although it may not all be obvious to all members, there has been an enormous amount of work put in to date, and there remains an enormous amount of work still to be done.

Almost all of the issues addressed in the email below are being addressed by the committee. We believe we can achieve a reasonable result through discussion, whilst still reserving the right to move to litigation.

Unfortunately talk of "contractual rights" is a misnomer. There are no set property rights ensconced in Abu Dhabi law, although hopefully next year the government will publish some laws that protect investors. In the meantime, we have to use our resources and skills to achieve what we want. At the end of the day, group members will have to decide for themselves if they accept the new terms Hydra offer, but bear in mind those new terms have only been offered because of pressure we have brought to bear on the company.

I'm sure there will still be investors unhappy with what is offered. That remains your choice, and should particular sub-groups wish to move to litigation, I will personally assist those members to move forward on that.

In the interim, if you're not happy with what the committee is doing, then you have every right to move off in your own direction. I don't wish for one second to prevent anyone communicating their concerns and position, but do bear in mind we won't ever be able to please all 350 members 100%. If you don't feel we're representing your needs adequately, I will refund any contributions you have made to the group fund in full (a better deal than you'll get out of Hydra I suspect!)

The committee hopes to have some details out soon about the new terms offered in the contract (or at least have Hydra communicate it to its clients). We are aware of the limitations of the coming summer break, and are working with that in mind.

Please once again accept this response as my own, not on behalf of the the committee.

Regards

Graeme Perry.

Dear Narendar, (I see your valid concern)

 

- All the group should make recommendations to the Hydra's elected committee who are currently negotiating with Hydra.......

- I feel sad when I read the committee's  e mails announcing achievements when hydra agrees to talk with them....

I feel sometimes that the committee's goals is to get some attention from hydra......It feels we are not dealing contractual....... BUT rather a love story between two lovers trying to make out....!

- Our lawyers should be talking to hydra at this stage......and our committee should be talking only to the lawyers....The legal procedure shouldn't be delayed any further.....Otherwise it won't be useful to go legal in the near future.....it would be too late for the legal system to be effective......Hydra is buying time.....Ask any lawyer he'll tell you that...!

- if it needs each of us to contribute  Dh 5,000 / each to employ a 1st class lawyer firm to achieve our contractual goals.....Then let it be .....its better to add Dh 5,000 to protect our already money at risk than either achieving a waste of time love story or an investment yet to be delivered by 2012 (May be) ...!!!!!!!

- It seems we are financing football clubs acquisitions (2 so far) + TV shows (on going successfully !!)  BUT construction progress to be shifted to year 2012 (May be .....if enough money left !!!

 

- Contractually ,The Group goals should not be less than the following :-

 

                   1. To revise the SPA to be mutually agreeable to both parties.

                   2. If handing-over is shifted to end 2011 ...Then cost saving to be shifted to Investors.

                   3. If handing over is shifted to end 2011 ...Then consolidation of units should be made possible.      

                       4. Area increase is not acceptable or justifiable especially with a project yet to be completed end 2011..

                       5. No payments to Hydra until construction progress is prorata payments received by Hydra.   

                   6. Hydra to link all future installments to construction progress.

 

 Please comment ? And what are your suggestions if different from above...?

 

 

 

Regards

Jamal

--
Hydra Investors Group

"Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope... and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring those ripples build a current that can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance."

Robert F. Kennedy

[rians]

Hi Jawadeh,

I think you are redirecting the group to wrong direction.

You did mention in your message that you have a similar case wherein
the developer has not honored his commitment. For curiosity case, Did
you win the case? I have a similar problem and has by now incurred a
lot of expenses with the lawyer, however the fight has been difficult
thus far and at this stage appealed in the court of appeal after
loosing the initial case in front of the high court. The circumstances
were similar to u r case where the initial court has after the experts
visiting the location, has confirmed that the developer has failed to
start the project. But when we went to the high court, the case was
dismissed due to insufficient evidence and hence now I have appealed
against that, which is costing me a lot of money.

So I am contemplating on negotiating back with the developer than
incurring more cost.

Rian

[x y]

Hello
I would like to thank Graeme and all those that are working with him
in trying to resolve issues with Hydra.
They have devoted a lot of their time to this.
I feel Jamal has made a very valid point in relation to goals. That
point relates to Compensation. The delays in Hydra's various projects
of from 18months to over 24 months is costing investors a lot of
money. Hydra should compensate people for this. Some people probably
have loans at interest rates of 10% - there is a huge additional cost
when a project is delayed and payments have already been made.

Regards
Paul

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[Mawj M]

           Hello:   each month of the delayed should be calculated as  ,RENTAL VALUE FOR EACH MONTH, simple ,logical and fair . why are you talking about the interest rate on loan ,don't count like that its wrong.

> Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 04:43:18 -0700
> Subject: [Dubai Property Investors] Re: Response to Graeme e mails on Response to Jawadeh's email
> From: invest...@gmail.com
> To: dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com

[fa2...@gmail.com]

The courts here calculate on the basis of interest and so do the clauses on the contracts. We cant reinvent the wheel here to just because the rental yield might be higher, most areas here the interest is higher now than rental income. Calculating rental yield is like opening another Pandora's box.
Regards,
Farah

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From: Mawj M
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 02:22:54 +0000
To: <dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com>