What is Django?

[Julian]

Is there any document available that describes WHAT Django is? I am
not looking for an installation guide, neither for tutorial, nor for
"Django is a high-level Python Web framework". But: What does this
framework include? What is it used for? How does it increase
productivity? Why shouldn't I use directly Python to create web apps/
pages? How could a sample app look like (without giving source code)?

Such explanations would be extremely helpful and maybe even worth to
be linked into https://www.djangoproject.com/

[Karen Tracey]

Please ask general questions about Django on django-users. The topic of this list is the development of Django itself.

Karen

[Russell Keith-Magee]

Hi Julian,

If your intention here was to suggest something that you think
Django's website should cover, then this *is* the right forum.
However, my reponse would be to ask what is wrong with the overview
that is already there? The front page of Django's website gives a 1
paragraph summary, with a link to a longer overview page:

https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.3/intro/overview/

We've also kicked around the idea of writing up some "Django for
non-techs" guides -- the sort of thing you might give to a manager or
boss to convince them that Django is worth adopting. We don't have
anything to show for this, but if you (or anyone else) is interested
in volunteering and has skills in copywrighting and design, this could
be a valuable contribution.

Yours,
Russ Magee %-)

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[Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]]

On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Russell Keith-Magee <rus...@keith-magee.com> wrote:

Hi Julian,

If your intention here was to suggest something that you think
Django's website should cover, then this *is* the right forum.
However, my reponse would be to ask what is wrong with the overview
that is already there? The front page of Django's website gives a 1
paragraph summary, with a link to a longer overview page:

https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.3/intro/overview/

We've also kicked around the idea of writing up some "Django for
non-techs" guides -- the sort of thing you might give to a manager or
boss to convince them that Django is worth adopting. We don't have
anything to show for this, but if you (or anyone else) is interested
in volunteering and has skills in copywrighting and design, this could
be a valuable contribution.

+1 on this idea :) Maybe some pages which show the amount of code needed in other languages, vs Django. Or the amount of steps necessary to perform a task, vs Django. In clear, easy to see format.

[Tom Evans]

On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 6:34 PM, Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]
<cal.l...@simplicitymedialtd.co.uk> wrote:
>
> +1 on this idea :)

I don't think Russell is looking for votes on whether to do it, he's
looking for someone to actually do it :)

Cheers

Tom

[Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]]

Lol, yeah I guessed that already. *adds into todo list*

 

Cheers

Tom

[Justin Holmes]

I've put some language down to get us started:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/15iJXXKs989cIIvhToa7ttYgToPSyzJN9KL9CCkxka1o/edit?pli=1&hl=en_US

On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 6:31 AM, Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]
<cal.l...@simplicitymedialtd.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Tom Evans <teva...@googlemail.com>

> wrote:I'll

--
Justin Holmes

Head Instructor, SlashRoot Collective
SlashRoot: Coffee House and Tech Dojo
60 Main Street
New Paltz, NY 12561
845.633.8330

[Justin Holmes]

Sorry, here's the appropriate link:

https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=15iJXXKs989cIIvhToa7ttYgToPSyzJN9KL9CCkxka1o

[Mikhail Korobov]

Hi all,

One thing I always like about django is how the community is peaceful and how the django itself is peaceful and engineer-minded, not marketing-minded: I can't imagine whydjangoisbetterthanx.com website bashing zend, rails, pyramid and flask, for example. That's why the idea of putting something like "Django has a number of distinct, measurable advantages over similar web frameworks." to the djangoproject.org front page doesn't seems too attractive for me. 

There are many big and well-known sites built with django and I think mentioning these sites and providing testimonials from people working on these sites can be better advertisement. I respect the sites listed on djangoproject.org page very much but the selection is quite opinionated towards newspaper web sites, maybe disqus, mozilla addons, opera portal, yandex projects, meebo, etc. (not sure about the exact list) can build more trust in framework for newcomers. These are not typical django websites but I think they will impress people more. 

[Jacob Kaplan-Moss]

On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 4:06 PM, Mikhail Korobov <kmi...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> One thing I always like about django is how the community is peaceful and
> how the django itself is peaceful and engineer-minded, not marketing-minded:
> I can't imagine whydjangoisbetterthanx.com website bashing zend, rails,
> pyramid and flask, for example. That's why the idea of putting something
> like "Django has a number of distinct, measurable advantages over similar
> web frameworks." to the djangoproject.org front page doesn't seems too
> attractive for me.

Well said. Language like that goes on anything officially-Django only
over my dead body.

I'm appreciating the effort y'all are putting onto a good high-level
description of Django, but let's stay FAR away from anything that's
derogatory, OK? If Django's as good as we say it is we shouldn't have
to put down other tools to promote ours.

Just so you know, there's an effort underway right now within the DSF
to refresh Django's web presence, so if you come up with something
good here there's a good chance we'll actually end up using it. So --
no pressure :)

Jacob

[Amirouche Boubekki]

2011/8/25 Mikhail Korobov <kmi...@googlemail.com>

Hi all, 

Hi Mikhail,
 

One thing I always like about django is how the community is peaceful and how the django itself is peaceful and engineer-minded,

 

then
 

not marketing-minded:

granted. It's the case of many FOSS projects.
 

There are many big and well-known sites built with django and I think mentioning these sites and providing testimonials from people working on these sites can be better advertisement. 

Yes and no. Advertising on big websites & applications powered by django would be a plus but it can be misleading. I think anybody could agree that this same applications could have been done in PHP or Flask with the same success (see Facebook ?).
Engineers and people that take decisions in general want to know if it gets things done, but also how does it compare to other solutions.
Comparing on features would be more engineer-minded that «How do you feel about Django». Engineering is not about feelings, it's a complex choice that weights pros & cons which can be technical but also social and commercial...

In javascript world is common to compare frameworks based on speed, size, we could extend this to common problems regarding website building like cache management, authentication, authorization, L10N, I18N, db support, professional support, community support and the like... and even do code to code comparison if it makes sens.

Taking the time to draw an «état de l'art» of things get done today even if, Django doesn't succeed in every aspect can only benefit Django project and the community.

Regards,

Amirouche

PS: I will be happy to help to draw a comparison with Flask if we setup a list of what to compare :)

[Julien Phalip]

On 26 August 2011 07:55, Amirouche Boubekki <amirouche...@gmail.com> wrote:

2011/8/25 Mikhail Korobov <kmi...@googlemail.com>

 

There are many big and well-known sites built with django and I think mentioning these sites and providing testimonials from people working on these sites can be better advertisement. 

Yes and no. Advertising on big websites & applications powered by django would be a plus but it can be misleading. I think anybody could agree that this same applications could have been done in PHP or Flask with the same success (see Facebook ?).

While there are successful and large websites out there built with any technology under the sun, I believe it is important to show that you *can* use Django to build such sites. Nobody will trust that you are webscale™ until you can show some concrete evidence of it :-)

Seeing that there are successful and large websites built with Django certainly isn't enough to convince someone but it isn't just a plus either. It is rather the *bare minimum* one needs to be reassured that they're not wasting their time learning this new framework.

 

Engineers and people that take decisions in general want to know if it gets things done, but also how does it compare to other solutions.
Comparing on features would be more engineer-minded that «How do you feel about Django». Engineering is not about feelings, it's a complex choice that weights pros & cons which can be technical but also social and commercial...

In javascript world is common to compare frameworks based on speed, size, we could extend this to common problems regarding website building like cache management, authentication, authorization, L10N, I18N, db support, professional support, community support and the like... and even do code to code comparison if it makes sens.

Comparisons are important but I'd rather encourage third parties to write them up. Comparisons can really only be trusted from people who have extended experience in all the compared frameworks and who do not appear biased towards one or another. One should always be cautious with websites/frameworks/products/whatever boasting that they are so much more awesome than the others :-)

Julien

[Justin Holmes]

Mikhail, et. al.,

I also love the vibe of the django community. I did not mean, when
writing that line, to put down other communities; I was glad when I
found Django to be greeted by language that did not put down other
frameworks or their philosophies. Nevertheless, I think that the
language in question is an empirically testable and true statement.
The inverse is also true: Some frameworks, for some use cases, have
distinct and measurable advantages over Django.

I'm not defending the language as it's written - by all means let's
change it. However, I do think that it's worth mentioning, somehow,
that Django excels in certain areas and that those areas are largely
the result of sensible underlying philosophies. I think that this
point answers a front-running question in the mind of project managers
who are considering framework adoption.

[kenneth gonsalves]

On Thu, 2011-08-25 at 14:51 -0400, Justin Holmes wrote:
> Sorry, here's the appropriate link:
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=15iJXXKs989cIIvhToa7ttYgToPSyzJN9KL9CCkxka1o
>
>

why not the wike?
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves