gogofuge - case, dremel, and control boards for dremelfuge

[Mackenzie Cowell]

Keegan Cooke (maker of keegotech mudwatts) recently developed a case and interface for a dremelfuge for a class at Stanford.  He released a video of his first prototype here:  http://youtu.be/Qcl04sqXqY4.  Pretty cool, although I think the lid needs a locking mechanism and I'd love to see some crash tests of the acrylic he chose for the lid windows.  Lasercut wood cases are so hip right now :)  Anyway, I would build one.  Are the plans online anywhere, keegan?

mac

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[Dakota Hamill]

Really nice looking.  What else is under the hood?

[Keegan Cooke]

Hi guys,

Thanks very much for your note, Mac, and it is very nice to e-meet you, Cathal (Thanks very much for sharing your Dremelfuge design).  I've still got a few bugs to work out with the GoGoFuge (some resizing and some different components, but I'll share the build files with the world when I'm done.  My goals for the project now are:

1) Find cheaper electronics to use.  I chose to use the Gogo Board just because it was the quickest thing available to me for my class, but it is quite expensive (~$100 with the display and relay) and a real pain to work with.  Do you guys by chance know of an ultra-low cost board that could handle about 4 switches, about 50 lines of code, and control a LCD screen and a relay?

2)  Fix the "vortex" function.  It's not supposed to be intermittent like it shows in the video.

3) Test out the safety of the acrylic, like you suggested Mac.  We did have one mishap that led to a tube flying into the acrylic lid, and the acrylic survived with a scratch.  But more crash tests should be done.

Anyways,  thanks for the support.  Let me know if you have any more suggestions or questions. 

Take care,

Keeg

[Cory Tobin]

> 1) Find cheaper electronics to use.  I chose to use the Gogo Board just
> because it was the quickest thing available to me for my class, but it is
> quite expensive (~$100 with the display and relay) and a real pain to work
> with.  Do you guys by chance know of an ultra-low cost board that could
> handle about 4 switches, about 50 lines of code, and control a LCD screen
> and a relay?

If you want to go the Arduino route, you can use the LiquidCrystal
library to hook up the LCD screen.
http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/LiquidCrystal It requires 6 digital
pins, so there should be enough pins left for the switches/relay. You
can even go cheaper by using something like Metaboard where USB is
done on the ATMega instead of on a dedicated chip.
https://metalab.at/wiki/Metaboard And if you're planning on making
your own board, this has the added benefit of not requiring any
surface mount soldering.

-cory

[John Griessen]

On 03/25/2012 04:58 PM, Keegan Cooke wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> Thanks very much for your note, Mac, and it is very nice to e-meet you, Cathal (Thanks very much for sharing your Dremelfuge
> design). I've still got a few bugs to work out with the GoGoFuge (some resizing and some different components, but I'll share the
> build files with the world when I'm done. My goals for the project now are:
>
> 1) Find cheaper electronics to use. I chose to use the Gogo Board just because it was the quickest thing available to me for my
> class, but it is quite expensive (~$100 with the display and relay) and a real pain to work with. Do you guys by chance know of
> an ultra-low cost board that could handle about 4 switches, about 50 lines of code, and control a LCD screen and a relay?

http://iteadstudio.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=50_53&products_id=165

Use it along with an LCD like this:
http://www.ecrater.com/p/13631267/nokia-5110-lcd-module-84x48-backlight

[Mega]

I recommend using just an Atmega 8 and a LCD.

You'll get the AVR (don't know what the price is in your country) for about 2-3 bucks.
I got two LCDs for just 4,50€ each at Pollin (German shop where to get electronical bargains). There also were more expensive ones with background lighting, etc. You won't need that.

It's very easy to program in Bascom, as BASCOM (as a high level language) includes the commands for the standard LCDs.

What else will you need?
A sensor that tells you how fast it rotates? Maybe you could use just a magnet and a loop, but then you'll need to program interrupts.
Those are quite difficult and tricky in C and also in Bascom it's not that easy (yet should be feasible)
Maybe on the internet you'll find a module that puts out a certain voltage depending on the rotation. (Say, 0V = 0RPM, 3V= 3000RPM)

Then you just use the ADC, and convert 1mV=1RPM => 452 mV = 452 RPM. That easy.

Using a potentiometer you could dim the RPM. Or you make three switches , 1000RPM , 2000 RPM , 3000 RPM. This is still easier and the ATMega has enough pins.


This would surely be the cheapest approach. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask!

[Richard Proctor]

With regards to controlling the the RPM theres a pretty cheap and chearful laser based tachometer. its goes under loads of different brands but its a Tondaj laser tach and they retail at about £10 and advertised as good to 999,999 rpm but i wouldnt trust it beyond 15k

my knowledge of electronics is pretty much zilch but i guess you could hack it apart to send the LCD display it uses to your main LCD display.

http://www.storeinfinity.com/tondaj-digital-laser-tachometer-2-5-100000rpm-dt-2234c.html

[Jonathan Cline]

On Sunday, March 25, 2012 2:58:15 PM UTC-7, Keegan Cooke wrote:

1) Find cheaper electronics to use.  I chose to use the Gogo Board just because it was the quickest thing available to me for my class, but it is quite expensive (~$100 with the display and relay) and a real pain to work with.  Do you guys by chance know of an ultra-low cost board that could handle about 4 switches, about 50 lines of code, and control a LCD screen and a relay?

Redesign to eliminate the LCD.  It adds a big chunk to cost and is not necessary.  Then use a PIC16F1847  (about $1.00). 
http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/Devices.aspx?dDocName=en549760
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIC_microcontroller

Solder it directly onto a board yourself, like this one (about $3).

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102845

If you insist on the LCD, then there's a comparable board for under $20, easy. 


## Jonathan Cline
## jcl...@ieee.org
## Mobile: +1-805-617-0223
########################
 

[Conner Berthold]

I agree with Mega; the ATMega8 should be good if used with a relay to drive the motor. This link should be of some help. The schematic is simple and has Hex files and source included.

[Matthias Bock]

Do you know of the Arduino?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arduino
It's a cheap and very easy to program (Java) and
use Mikrocontroller board for end-users.
Also solder-it-yourself-kits are available.

Motor RPM are best controlled by using a stepper motor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepper_motor

Tutorials can be found on the internet, explaining
how to use stepper motors, e.g. found in old floppy
drives, e.g. with the Arduino.
http://arduino.cc/hu/Tutorial/StepperUnipolar

I guess, this way you can get to a
professional solution quite fast.

Cheers, Matthias

Am Samstag, den 07.04.2012, 16:06 -0700 schrieb Conner Berthold:
> I agree with Mega; the ATMega8 should be good if used with a relay to
> drive the motor. This link should be of some help. The schematic is
> simple and has Hex files and source included.
>
> On Monday, March 26, 2012 12:20:21 PM UTC-4, Mega wrote:
> I recommend using just an Atmega 8 and a LCD.
>
> You'll get the AVR (don't know what the price is in your
> country) for about 2-3 bucks.

> I got two LCDs for just 4,50ￜ each at Pollin (German shop

[Nathan McCorkle]

Matthias, Arduino is actually programmed with C, not java

On Apr 10, 2012 8:04 AM, "Matthias Bock" <matthi...@hu-berlin.de> wrote:

Do you know of the Arduino?
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arduino
It's a cheap and very easy to program (Java) and
use Mikrocontroller board for end-users.
Also solder-it-yourself-kits are available.

Motor RPM are best controlled by using a stepper motor.
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepper_motor

Tutorials can be found on the internet, explaining
how to use stepper motors, e.g. found in old floppy
drives, e.g. with the Arduino.
 http://arduino.cc/hu/Tutorial/StepperUnipolar

I guess, this way you can get to a
professional solution quite fast.

Cheers, Matthias


Am Samstag, den 07.04.2012, 16:06 -0700 schrieb Conner Berthold:
> I agree with Mega; the ATMega8 should be good if used with a relay to
> drive the motor. This link should be of some help. The schematic is
> simple and has Hex files and source included.
>
> On Monday, March 26, 2012 12:20:21 PM UTC-4, Mega wrote:
>         I recommend using just an Atmega 8 and a LCD.
>
>         You'll get the AVR (don't know what the price is in your
>         country) for about 2-3 bucks.

>         I got two LCDs for just 4,50€ each at Pollin (German shop

>         where to get electronical bargains). There also were more
>         expensive ones with background lighting, etc. You won't need
>         that.
>
>         It's very easy to program in Bascom, as BASCOM (as a high
>         level language) includes the commands for the standard LCDs.
>
>         What else will you need?
>         A sensor that tells you how fast it rotates? Maybe you could
>         use just a magnet and a loop, but then you'll need to program
>         interrupts.
>         Those are quite difficult and tricky in C and also in Bascom
>         it's not that easy (yet should be feasible)
>         Maybe on the internet you'll find a module that puts out a
>         certain voltage depending on the rotation. (Say, 0V = 0RPM,
>         3V= 3000RPM)
>
>         Then you just use the ADC, and convert 1mV=1RPM => 452 mV =
>         452 RPM. That easy.
>
>         Using a potentiometer you could dim the RPM. Or you make three
>         switches , 1000RPM , 2000 RPM , 3000 RPM. This is still easier
>         and the ATMega has enough pins.
>
>
>         This would surely be the cheapest approach. If you have any
>         questions, don't hesitate to ask!
>

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[Matthias Bock]

Hm, maybe it's also possible with C, I don't know.
I'm programming it with Java :)

http://arduino.cc/playground/Interfacing/Java

[Avery louie]

"Arduinos" can be programmed in any language, as long is it is eventually compiled to machine code via some interpretation.  Arduinos are normally programmed with the arduino IDE, which accepts a mashup of C code and java-esque syntax, as well as in-line assembly.

I think if you are new to MCU programming, and running windows, go with the TI launchpad.  The entire dev board is 5$, and you can get chips that literally cost less than a dollar (lowest quote I saw was like 25 cents).  They should have enough power to do what you want, but also be hella cheap.

--A

[Cory Geesaman]

That's pretty cool.  I had never heard of the TI launchpad before, but with a 16-bit processor and 16KB of onboard flash around 25 cents it looks feasible to use playing with massively parallel chip configurations.

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[Jonathan Cline]

By the way, one method for eliminating the LCD is to use "canned speech" audio as a user interface.  For much less cost than an LCD, the system could play pre-recorded phrases stored in flash memory to a cheap amp+audio speaker, i.e. "two minutes.  starting now." Or "two minutes.  spinning down.  complete."   Many chips have more than enough CPU power for this now.   It's funny to see lab equipment with these huge colorful displays (adding significant cost) when all they really need is a way to indicate a single measurement number or show the user what operational mode the equipment is currently running in.

-- 

[Simon Quellen Field]

Single-line LCD displays are $1 apiece.

A WQVGA display, at 240x400 pixels (standard television) is $2.

The flash, amplifier, and speaker for your canned speech is not a lot

cheaper than $1, and in a busy lab with a lot of them talking at once,

it might be more annoying than talking card=s and elevators. Also, if

you didn't happen to be right next to one, you might not be able to get

the message. The display stays there, so when you come back into the

room you can see what it is telling you.

The reason mechanical timers have been replaced by computer chips is

that computers are cheaper. Thermostats have also been replaced by

computers for the same reason. The reason most devices have LCD

displays in them is because it is a very inexpensive, mature technology.

Adding a dollar's worth of display to a $500 piece of lab equipment makes

sense.

Which would you rather interact with, a web page for ordering something,

or an automated phone system that begins "Please listen carefully, for the following

menu has been changed..."?

Reading something is much faster and easier than listening to a spoken message.

And it doesn't bother the rest of the people in the lab, or interrupt conversations

between people.

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[Jelmer Cnossen]

If we're going to be precise about this, the Arduino IDE is just a frontend for avrgcc, which is a C++ compiler. They've made it a bit easier to compile and upload by inserting standard headers such as #include <Arduino.h>, but the language is not modified (No java stuff).

I tried 2 of the Arduino-like attempts from the big hardware vendors such as TI and STM (a 9$ 32-bit ARM board  http://www.st.com/internet/evalboard/product/250863.jsp, at least when I bought it) but I found the documentation very dissappointing. The Arduino community is really huge compared to it, and there is code online for basically everything you would want to make with led, lcd, servo, relais or stepper motor modules. If the cost is an issue, just buy a cheap arduino clone on ebay. You can also get really cheap relay modules on ebay btw.

Next to being harder to program, they are also not open source, and in case of the STM even have a license that prevents you from selling it as part of a product (Maybe this is also the case for the launchpad). 

If it wasn't clear yet, I would also advice an arduino-like one :)

- Jelmer

[Simon Quellen Field]

I am one of the old-timers who built their first computers back in the 1970's.

I've been writing compilers for 30 years, and C++ is almost a natural language

for me. So I am not the best person to advise beginners or non-computer

people on which microcontroller to use. But I might have some insights.

The Arduino is quite nice, and comes with a lot of support and there are lots

of people who can help you with programming or designing compatible hardware.

And it has a USB interface, which is very nice now that RS232 is no longer

common in new computers.

But there are sometimes applications where you just want a programmed chip,

and don't want to pay the cost for a board, lights, switches, USB, etc. For those

things, I have long loved the Atmel 8 pin AVR microcontrollers. They come in

through-pin PDIP packages so they fit easily on a cheap prototyping circuit board,

and you pop them into a programmer for flash your program and you're ready to go.

But for sheer low cost in a development system, it is hard to beat the TI board.

I just bought five of them and the total cost was $21. Like the AVR chips, you just

plug the chip in the programmer, flash it, and the chip is ready to plug into your

solderless breadboard or a socket soldered to a prototyping printed circuit board.

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[Jonathan Cline]

On 4/12/12 9:33 AM, Simon Quellen Field wrote:

Single-line LCD displays are $1 apiece.

A WQVGA display, at 240x400 pixels (standard television) is $2.

The most important point is to decide the feature that is needed.  Then decide the technology second.  A frequent mistake here is to say "Wow!  board with LCD only 0.01$! Let's use that!"  Thus picking a poorly fitted technology first, and shoe-horning it into the user model.  That's backwards.  The prices you mention are component prices only and don't include associated cost (case edges, water proofing, real estate, mounting hardware, etc).  My current product (high volume production next month, = stress) has 3 buttons with LEDs, no power button, voice annunciations using pre-recorded speech, and a volume knob.  I haven't seen any products produced in volume which use AVR or atmega.

So gogofuge,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qcl04sqXqY4

googfuge is meant (I assume) as a low cost DIY product, not necessarily for a busy lab, more for individual use.  It should cost no more than $35 in materials & parts (batteries not included).  Single operator with a single programmable run.   No speed control, maybe two settings, hi & lo.  Runs to completion and stops.  Only needs to provide a couple types of information, namely a couple numbers, a couple abbreviations (RPM, G, whatever) and a handful of operational modes (Idle, running, spinning up, spinning down).  Displays have a variety of challenges and at a minimum needs a better case design to provide a proper viewing angle.  Certainly most lab equipment does not need an image mapped xVGA display.  If there's any display data to present, it should be sent to the nearest smart phone.

Speaking of eliminating cost & every button possible, why is there a SPIN vs VORTEX knob?  Surely the unit can auto-detect which attachment is plugged into the top and set the motor to run accordingly.


This Thermo Sci centrifuge https://static.thermoscientific.com/images/F63741~wn.jpg
has a color touch xVGA display which seems, imho, complete overkill, a marketing tactic rather than usability enhancement.
pdf specs: https://www.google.com/search?q=Thermo+Scientific+Sorvall+Ultra+Centrifuge+Series+pdf

[Avery louie]

Actually, the speed of the centrifuge is very important.  It turns out that it is sometimes important to use a lower speed to prevent stress on samples.

--A

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