Fwd: ikiwiki installation
Mackenzie Cowell
Secondly, why can't we keep using openwetware as the main wiki?
Thanks,
Mac
From: Bryan Bishop <kan...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 12:06 AM
Subject: Re: ikiwiki installation
To: Mackenzie Cowell <m...@diybio.org>, kan...@gmail.com
> Pretty sure Jason Bobe has the keys. Why are we installing ikiwiki? Let's
> demonstrate the utility on your server, and if it takes off, move it over to
> diybio.org.
night and day with over 350k+ hits/mo because of the server. I think I
have sacrificed a lot for this project, and it would be nice to host
it on diybio.org for a change.
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From: Mackenzie Cowell
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 15:22:32 -0400
To: diybio<diy...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Fwd: ikiwiki installation
Bryan Bishop
> I was asking myself the same question. Is there a reason we shouldn't use
> openwetware wiki? Should be simpler than setting up a new one.
Bryan Bishop
LEWIS<cyan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> why not http://www.instiki.org/show/HomePage it's a three step install
> process, or two depending on what arch and os you're using. less install
> steps the better especially for a server. but if you want robustness i've
> always loved PLONE but that's a bit overkill for this application :3
Well, the reason why we were talking about gitit and ikiwiki the other
day was because they are about the only two options for wikis that use
"real" revision control systems under the hood, not something customly
integrated or whatever. What this means is that this would easily
expand to the open source hardware projects in the future while
simultaneously not being too much of a pain in the ass at the present,
since it could both do code hosting, documentation hosting, and be a
fancy web interface like everyone wants. I'm not sure what instiki
uses for its revision control .. it does say something about ruby, so
maybe there's a ruby module we could throw in to give it access to git
or something, but honestly I think we should take the path of least
resistance.
http://www.instiki.org/show/WhatIsInstiki
Bryan Bishop
> Is anyone using Bryan's service? Should we mirror his content at
> diybio.org?
Just for the record, it isn't really "my" content. Yes, I contributed
some of the code. Anyway, if you want to look at who has been
contributing to it, you can look at the logs (run "git help log" I
guess). On the other hand it's possible that there are a number of
other anonymous people who have at least looked at it (which I guess
is who you might get responding to you).
> Secondly, why can't we keep using openwetware as the main wiki?
I'm starting to feel like a broken record.
Also, most wikis are not good for revision control of anything more
than just text on a page somewhere.. in the case of diybio projects,
the toolchain stuff in the git repo for instance can be used for
community infrastructure purposes, etc. etc.
Jason Kelly
> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_frm/thread/e74539e0162ef51c/9306c0d63c2b9ee4?lnk=gst&q=openwetware+fenn#9306c0d63c2b9ee4
obvious/final conclusion that DIYBio should not use OpenWetWare.
That thread was mainly discussing the fact that on OWW you need to use
a real name. Doesn't seem like that is the argument you're making
below. Nor does that seem to be the best reason to choose to
use/not-use OWW.
> Also, most wikis are not good for revision control of anything more
> than just text on a page somewhere.. in the case of diybio projects,
> the toolchain stuff in the git repo for instance can be used for
> community infrastructure purposes, etc. etc.
the folks who are bigger contributors then me to decide -- however my
2 cents is that I would optimize on whatever enables the largest
number of people to contribute.
So even if something isn't perfect, but has a really easy to use UI
(Mediawiki benefits from all the training that Wikipedia has done on
people, though there are other good ones) or a pre-existing community
that can be tapped (OpenWetWare) it might be a better choice then
something that has a technical advantage that might matter further
down the road or only to a small fraction of the community (I don't
know if this characterizes instiki, don't know much about it). Good
luck, it's not easy to choose the right platform to inspire
contribution as anyone who has tried to get an online community off
the ground knows.
Thanks,
jason
>
> >
>
Bryan Bishop
>> I'm starting to feel like a broken record.
>> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_frm/thread/e74539e0162ef51c/9306c0d63c2b9ee4?lnk=gst&q=openwetware+fenn#9306c0d63c2b9ee4
>
> It's not clear to me that the thread you keep referencing is an
> obvious/final conclusion that DIYBio should not use OpenWetWare.
I agree. I am not saying that we should all stop using OWW or
something "or else". Remember, I'm still the one making most of the
edits on the diybio FAQ page on OWW. I don't think a wiki is a good
place to host code, for instance, or the deeper projects that we're
working on.
> That thread was mainly discussing the fact that on OWW you need to use
> a real name. Doesn't seem like that is the argument you're making
> below. Nor does that seem to be the best reason to choose to
> use/not-use OWW.
The last few posts in the thread are what I should have linked to, I
admit. In particular the comment about how it's more like ignoring the
years and years of experience that are actually out there about how
online collaboration actually works, the comment about Hawaii, etc.
>> Also, most wikis are not good for revision control of anything more
>> than just text on a page somewhere.. in the case of diybio projects,
>> the toolchain stuff in the git repo for instance can be used for
>> community infrastructure purposes, etc. etc.
>
> I don't know what the best option for DIYBio is, I'll leave it up to
> the folks who are bigger contributors then me to decide -- however my
> 2 cents is that I would optimize on whatever enables the largest
> number of people to contribute.
There are certain tools for certain jobs, but that doesn't mean we
should just throw away all of the hacker tools because most people on
diybio don't know how to use hacker tools. I think it should be ok if
we use tools to advance our mission.
> So even if something isn't perfect, but has a really easy to use UI
> (Mediawiki benefits from all the training that Wikipedia has done on
> people, though there are other good ones) or a pre-existing community
Maybe you could make a mediawiki CSS layout thingy for gitit or
ikiwiki if you think it's such a huge problem. But I'm not about to
start pushing code commits to a mediawiki RCS.
> that can be tapped (OpenWetWare) it might be a better choice then
> something that has a technical advantage that might matter further
why can't diybio have its own toolchain instead of depending on OWW?
> down the road or only to a small fraction of the community (I don't
> know if this characterizes instiki, don't know much about it). Good
> luck, it's not easy to choose the right platform to inspire
> contribution as anyone who has tried to get an online community off
> the ground knows.
Maybe you should use tools that contributors are using.
Heath Matlock
>day was because they are about the only two options for wikis that use
>"real" revision control systems under the hood, not something customly
>integrated or whatever.
http://github.com/sr/git-wiki/tree/master
http://gitorious.org/phedders/git-wiki
http://el-tramo.be/software/wigit
http://ygingras.net/gazest
Heath Matlock
Heath Matlock
s/Examples of other wikis using git data storage/Examples of other git-based wikis
Jason Bobe
Thanks,
Jason
Jason Bobe
Thanks,
Jason
JonathanCline
>
> Well, the reason why we were talking about gitit and ikiwiki the other
> day was because they are about the only two options for wikis that use
> "real" revision control systems under the hood, not something customly
> integrated or whatever.
popular for intranets at engineering companies due to the power of the
s/w & plugin design.
## Jonathan Cline
## jcl...@ieee.org
## Mobile: +1-805-617-0223
########################
Bryan Bishop
> Personally, I'm in favor of taking advantage of all the great free
> infrastructure that OpenWetWare provides. This doesn't preclude others from
> using whatever tools they like. If other tools become more successful, more
> useful, more heavily used than OWW, then the decision to migrate will be
> more obvious than it is currently.
OWW doesn't really provide the infrastructure that diybio is
interested in developing. Development tools are development tools, and
a wiki is a wiki. These other tools provide the best of both worlds.
Jason, I am wondering whether or not you do any programming, and if
so, have you ever collaborated with others by pasting code on to a
wiki? And how did that work out for you?
Bryan Bishop
> On Jun 21, 3:08 pm, Bryan Bishop <kanz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Well, the reason why we were talking about gitit and ikiwiki the other
>> day was because they are about the only two options for wikis that use
>> "real" revision control systems under the hood, not something customly
>> integrated or whatever.
>
> Twiki wiki uses svn for content revision control. It's also the most
> popular for intranets at engineering companies due to the power of the
> s/w & plugin design.
Really? I have never heard of an engineering company using svn before.
That's neat. I haven't ever configured twiki, although I have used it
on various different servers, is the backend somewhere that it would
be easy enough to just dump files and incorporate that into a make
system?
JonathanCline
> > On Jun 21, 3:08 pm, Bryan Bishop <kanz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Well, the reason why we were talking about gitit and ikiwiki the other
> >> day was because they are about the only two options for wikis that use
> >> "real" revision control systems under the hood, not something customly
> >> integrated or whatever.
>
> > Twiki wiki uses svn for content revision control. It's also the most
> > popular for intranets at engineering companies due to the power of the
> > s/w & plugin design.
>
> Really? I have never heard of an engineering company using svn before.
> That's neat. I haven't ever configured twiki, although I have used it
> on various different servers, is the backend somewhere that it would
> be easy enough to just dump files and incorporate that into a make
> system?
use the command line to access/edit/update the wiki data. Since it is
pure perl and plugins can access the API, you can write perl to do
whatever you want. The wiki words & file attachments are stored as
individual files per topic for ease of developer access (not in an SQL
DB).
Bryan Bishop
I wouldn't mind trying out twiki either, then. Maybe we should set up
/sandbox/wikis/ on the server for a few testbeds to see if we can
commit and checkout between each other on the diybio.org server, or
something, and try out at least two or three different wikis (I'd be
willing to set them up).