Re: [DIYbio] Commercial DNA capsules - any experience? Useful or snake oil?

[Dakota Hamill]

Looks like a rip off at $400.  I could spit all over my walls and have enough DNA left over for future testing for years to come.

[Dakota Hamill]

god I really hope no one has bought one of those...

[Avery louie]

All they do is put extract it, dry it, and put it in a box with a desiccant...sounds like snake oil.  For that money, you can have it sequenced and put on an SSD and have change left over, if not now, in a few years (I dont keep up with the price).

--A

On Feb 24, 2013 8:21 PM, "Dakota Hamill" <dko...@gmail.com> wrote:

god I really hope no one has bought one of those...

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[Jiri Dluhos]

On Monday, February 25, 2013 4:13:16 AM UTC+1, Avery wrote:

All they do is put extract it, dry it, and put it in a box with a desiccant...sounds like snake oil.  For that money, you can have it sequenced and put on an SSD and have change left over, if not now, in a few years (I dont keep up with the price).

Well, I understand, but if their dessicant really guarantees that the stored DNA keeps unchanged for years, it's not that bad...

Full-genome sequencing costs still about $5400, not a negligible amount :-(

Best regards,

    Jiri Dluhos

[Jeswin]

On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Jiri Dluhos
<jiri.blueb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Well, I understand, but if their dessicant really guarantees that the stored
> DNA keeps unchanged for years, it's not that bad...
>
> Full-genome sequencing costs still about $5400, not a negligible amount :-(
>

I think they get high profit margin off this. Extraction is cheap and
it looks like they lyophilize the DNA and stick it in a sealed tube in
a steel cylinder.

The target customers are those who probably think they can clone
people in the future. Or maybe use the DNA for sequencing in the near
future (when prices go way down) to determine any genetic diseases.

[Josiah Zayner]

As Dakota said, DNA is really stable. Usually in the > 100,000 year range on ice with nothing special added.
People have tested this by calculating a rate of hydrolysis and extrapolating.

[Jiri Dluhos]

Thanks everyone for information! :-)

However, now I am back on square one: if the commercial DNA capsules are not an answer, how should I archive DNA samples provided that they are precious? Freezing is only a partial answer because it needs constant feed of energy, and every thaw-refreeze cycle can lower the quality. :-(

(Creating a new thread for this question so it does not get lost when someone else needs it...)

On Monday, February 25, 2013 6:09:44 PM UTC+1, Josiah Zayner wrote:

As Dakota said, DNA is really stable. Usually in the > 100,000 year range on ice with nothing special added.
People have tested this by calculating a rate of hydrolysis and extrapolating.

I have no doubt that DNA is stable, but I have also read many warnings about hydrolysis; some texts I stumbled upon even recommend only few days (!) of storage on ice. :-(

Best regards,

    Jiri Dluhos

[Dakota Hamill]

I imagine lyophilized (freeze dried) DNA would last quite some time at room temperature in a vessel impervious to light, or at least out of direct sunlight, and away from temperature extremes.  

[Thomas Landrain]

I think the capsule service that the company Imagene.fr sell is only few euros. To check though...

For ultra-durability, DNA needs to be conserved in an inert atmosphere since oxygen species react easily with the DNA chain. 

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[Cory Tobin]

> However, now I am back on square one: if the commercial DNA capsules are not
> an answer, how should I archive DNA samples provided that they are precious?
> Freezing is only a partial answer because it needs constant feed of energy,
> and every thaw-refreeze cycle can lower the quality. :-(

The ATCC offers cryogenic storage as a service. I'm sure it's
expensive, but if cost isn't the issue then this could be a good
option.

https://www.atcc.org/en/Services/Deposit_Services/Safe_Deposit.aspx

-cory

[Cathal Garvey]

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I remember watching an entertaining yet bothersome TED talk by a guy
who was discussing attempts to extract Dinosaur DNA from bones, and
the "challenges" they faced. Apparently they tried to dissolve the
bones to release the DNA with hot acid, suggesting they never
consulted with a molecular biologist first to learn about acid
hydrolysis. >_<

But yea, the proof is in the archaeology: DNA survives a long time
under pretty harsh conditions, so if you provide something remotely
cushy, you'll have DNA to spare.

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[Myles O'Neill]

Very much snake oil, and highly marked up as others have said.

If you insist on going down this route for whatever reason a (very slightly) cheaper alternative is: http://www.dnacapsule.com

The best long-term storage method is probably to just sequence it. Then you can recreate it whenever you need to.

On Monday, February 25, 2013 9:21:54 AM UTC+11, Jiri Dluhos wrote:

Hello colleagues,

please, does anyone have any experience with the commercial DNA capsule services, like DNAcapsule.com or securigene.com?

Are their methods of DNA preservation sound? Isn't it just snake oil?

I am very tempted to use them for DNA archiving because they don't require constant freezing, but I'm not sure whether the companies really provide what they say. Would I be able to find a difference if they sent me back a vial of salt water in iron case?

I will be glad for any opinion.

Best regards,

    Jiri Dluhos

[Patrik D'haeseleer]

Also, does anyone have experience using Biomatrica's DNA/RNA preservation products? Seems very simple and not nearly as expensive. Apparently their technology has been adopted by the California Dept. of Justice for storing forensic samples.

Water Bear Inspires Refrigeration-free Storage

Lee, et. al., Assessing a novel room temperature DNA storage medium for forensic biological samples. Forensic Science International - Genetics, Jan 2012.

Allen Hall and D. McNevin. Human Tissue Preservation for disaster victim identification (DVI) in tropical climates, Forensic Science International - Genetics, Jan 2012.

Patrik

[Patrik D'haeseleer]

Nice. Looks pretty straightforward:

"By way of example, a particularly preferred solid medium according to this aspect of the invention comprises an absorbent cellulose-based paper such as filter paper having a minimal loading, per sq.cm. of paper, as follows:

(a) EDTA: 0.5 micromols (146.1 mg of free acid)
(b) Tris: 8 micromols (968.8 mg of free base)
(c) SDS: 1 mg; and optionally
(d) uric acid: 2 micromols (336.24 mg of acid)."

They also mention coating the cards with polystyrene for long-term storage.

Patrik

On Saturday, March 9, 2013 1:41:24 PM UTC-8, Mitch Day wrote:

I have used the Biomatrica DNA storage system for plasmids and bacterial genomic DNA. Yes, it is very over-priced, but it also works well enough. There have been some decent studies that show it is an improvement over desiccated naked DNA or -80C storage.

Another option is FTA paper (Whatman). These are just chemically-treated paper cards. One can apply naked DNA in solution or whole cells to the paper and then recover enough DNA for transformation or PCR. http://www.whatman.com/FTANucleicAcidCollectionStorageandPurification.aspx

There has been a lot more research on FTA paper because it is such a cheap and stable medium. It is still on patent, but not for long.

The patent is informative. http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN/5496562

MY $0.02(USD),

Mitch