Problems with IMAP Server and Thunderbird

[Neale D. Hind]

I clicked the IMAP server setting in TP Connect, running in my Virtual
Machine, and was able to connect immediately using Outlook on my host
machine. I could subscribe to the folders and just copy all my TP mail
across to Outlook folders.

I thought I was home and dry for migrating from TP to Outlook .... until
I realised that Outlook doesn't support personalities with automated
adjustment of the reply-to addresses.

So I thought I would try Thunderbird to see if its 'Identities' features
met my needs. But I'm damned if I can see how to set TB up to access the
TP IMAP Server. It seems to be hard coded to demand a 'real' ISP with
user names of the form something@somewhere and won't play nicely with my
IMAP server whose name is of the form 'company-#######' and my simple
username 'Neale' that doesn't require a password.

Has anyone gotten this to work for TB and if so how?

Cheers,
--
Neale
Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

[Bernard Peek]

On 21/10/13 16:13, Neale D. Hind wrote:

> So I thought I would try Thunderbird to see if its 'Identities' features
> met my needs. But I'm damned if I can see how to set TB up to access the
> TP IMAP Server. It seems to be hard coded to demand a 'real' ISP with
> user names of the form something@somewhere and won't play nicely with my
> IMAP server whose name is of the form 'company-#######' and my simple
> username 'Neale' that doesn't require a password.
>
> Has anyone gotten this to work for TB and if so how?

There are two stages to setting up a new account. The first stage asks
for the email address you want to use. The next stage allows you to
change the login and password for the server. The login does not have to
be the same as the email address.

--
b...@shrdlu.com

[Neale D. Hind]

In message <bcleuk...@mid.individual.net>, Bernard Peek
<b...@shrdlu.com> writes

Still doesn't work though.

First I set up TB for my real email A/c. I could then edit the Server
settings for my TP IMAP server (I set a password on my TP A/c as TB
wouldn't accept a blank password).

It did look as though TB was trying to connect with the TP IMAP server,
but returned an 'Access Denied' error.

Frustrating that it was so easy to set up in Outlook but so impossible
in TB :-(

[Bernard Peek]

On 21/10/13 23:13, Neale D. Hind wrote:

>> There are two stages to setting up a new account. The first stage asks
>> for the email address you want to use. The next stage allows you to
>> change the login and password for the server. The login does not have
>> to be the same as the email address.
>
> Still doesn't work though.
>
> First I set up TB for my real email A/c. I could then edit the Server
> settings for my TP IMAP server (I set a password on my TP A/c as TB
> wouldn't accept a blank password).
>
> It did look as though TB was trying to connect with the TP IMAP server,
> but returned an 'Access Denied' error.
>
> Frustrating that it was so easy to set up in Outlook but so impossible
> in TB :-(
>

It's a long time since I did this but I don't recall any problems with
it. Do any of the systems have firewalls?

[Wm]

Perhaps it is something to do with the VM ?

In TB the Server Settings for the account to access TP via IMAP (a
*separate* a/c to any real e-mail address, I used Wm@localhost) should
be something like

===
server name: localhost
port: 143
username: [whatever username you use to log in to TP]
connection security: none
authentication method: passwd, trans insec
===

don't think anything else is significant and, Neale, loads of people
have done it, it is certainly not impossible.

--
Wm...

[Neale D. Hind]

In message <Twz9u.184923$RZ.1...@fx08.fr7>, Wm
<tcn...@tarrcity.demon.co.uk> writes

>On 22/10/2013 11:00, Bernard Peek wrote:
>> On 21/10/13 23:13, Neale D. Hind wrote:
>>
>> >> There are two stages to setting up a new account. The first stage asks
>>>> for the email address you want to use. The next stage allows you to
>>>> change the login and password for the server. The login does not have
>>>> to be the same as the email address.
>>>
>>> Still doesn't work though.
>>>
>>> First I set up TB for my real email A/c. I could then edit the Server
>>> settings for my TP IMAP server (I set a password on my TP A/c as TB
>>> wouldn't accept a blank password).
>>>
>>> It did look as though TB was trying to connect with the TP IMAP server,
>>> but returned an 'Access Denied' error.
>>>
>>> Frustrating that it was so easy to set up in Outlook but so impossible
>>> in TB :-(
>>>
>>
>> It's a long time since I did this but I don't recall any problems with
>> it. Do any of the systems have firewalls?

Only any Windows standard ones. And they don't prevent Outlook from
connecting to the TP server.

>Perhaps it is something to do with the VM ?

I think it must be, somehow TB doesn't like the VM.

>In TB the Server Settings for the account to access TP via IMAP (a
>*separate* a/c to any real e-mail address, I used Wm@localhost) should
>be something like
>
>===
>server name: localhost
>port: 143
>username: [whatever username you use to log in to TP]
>connection security: none
>authentication method: passwd, trans insec
>===
>
>don't think anything else is significant and, Neale, loads of people
>have done it, it is certainly not impossible.

Maybe you're right about it being the virtual machine. I've tried all
manner of settings combinations (including the ones you suggest above)
and the best result I ever got was 'Access Denied' - which at least
suggested a connection was trying to be made. I can't unfortunately
repeat that though.

Plus with Thunderbird I've never even seen TP Connect servers status as
anything but 'Idle' whereas is springs to life instantly with Outlook
2010 showing four connections.

I'll download an older TB version from OldApps and see if it works any
better with that.

Thanks for the suggestions, it confirmed that the port number and
password settings I was using were right. All further suggestions
gratefully received.

[Neale D. Hind]

In message <Xcz5HkA3...@127.0.0.1>, Neale D. Hind
<nos...@127.0.0.1> writes

>I'll download an older TB version from OldApps and see if it works any
>better with that.

OK. Now running Thunderbird 13.0.1 (from June 2012) and that has
connected to the TP Server straightaway (although I had to set a
password for my TP user - Thunderbird doesn't seem to work well with an
empty password).

I'll have a play around with it now and see if identities work for me.

[Neale D. Hind]

In message <iMr0D+AW...@127.0.0.1>, Neale D. Hind

<nos...@127.0.0.1> writes
>In message <Xcz5HkA3...@127.0.0.1>, Neale D. Hind
><nos...@127.0.0.1> writes
>>I'll download an older TB version from OldApps and see if it works any
>>better with that.
>
>OK. Now running Thunderbird 13.0.1 (from June 2012) and that has
>connected to the TP Server straightaway (although I had to set a
>password for my TP user - Thunderbird doesn't seem to work well with an
>empty password).

Really weird stuff and, I think, the problems are with Thunderbird.
Sticking with v13 I was able, in Turnpike, to reset my password to blank
and set auto login. Thunderbird 13 asked for my new password and would
then accept a blank.

I then installed Thunderbird 24 over Thunderbird 13. I could now see it
connecting but sticking at sending logon information. So I again set a
password for my account in Turnpike and entered it into Thunderbird 24
and all now appears to be working. But the really annoying part is when
I look at server settings in TB 24, they are identical to the settings
I've been trying over the last few days. I can only guess there is
something in a hidden Thunderbird settings file that worked for TB13,
but not TB24.

Ah well, live & learn. Yet again www.oldapps.com comes to the rescue :-)

One final irritation though - the toolbar in my XP Virtual Machine is
now filling up with Turnpike 'IMAP Server' logging dialogs - I didn't
get these when connecting via Outlook so I don't know why they're there
with Thunderbird.

[Neale D. Hind]

In message <ns417yBY...@127.0.0.1>, Neale D. Hind

<nos...@127.0.0.1> writes
>In message <iMr0D+AW...@127.0.0.1>, Neale D. Hind
><nos...@127.0.0.1> writes
>>In message <Xcz5HkA3...@127.0.0.1>, Neale D. Hind
>><nos...@127.0.0.1> writes
>>>I'll download an older TB version from OldApps and see if it works
>>>any better with that.
>>
>>OK. Now running Thunderbird 13.0.1 (from June 2012) and that has
>>connected to the TP Server straightaway (although I had to set a
>>password for my TP user - Thunderbird doesn't seem to work well with
>>an empty password).
>
>
>Really weird stuff and, I think, the problems are with Thunderbird.

I don't think I'm going to continue with Thunderbird for an IMAP
connection to Turnpike. It fills up my Virtual XP taskbar with IMAP
logging windows that don't clear, even after exiting Thunderbird on the
host.

Then, even after closing Thunderbird on the host, it proves impossible
to close connect, or indeed do anything with Turnpike, in the virtual
machine.

I have to shut down and restart the virtual machine. But then starting
Turnpike produces an invalid data file error message and wants to
rebuild the database. Prudently I copied my email folders before
starting these Thunderbird tests.

Again, I'm really surprised how easy this was for Outlook and how flaky
(and data dangerous) the Thunderbird experience has been. Maybe (another
day) I'll try TP as a POP3 server and see how TB gets on with that. But
for the moment - I'm exhausted by the TB hoops I've been through.

[Wm]

On 23/10/2013 18:35, Neale D. Hind wrote:
> In message <Xcz5HkA3...@127.0.0.1>, Neale D. Hind
> <nos...@127.0.0.1> writes
>> I'll download an older TB version from OldApps and see if it works any
>> better with that.
>
> OK. Now running Thunderbird 13.0.1 (from June 2012) and that has
> connected to the TP Server straightaway (although I had to set a
> password for my TP user - Thunderbird doesn't seem to work well with an
> empty password).

It is Turnpike that needs a password set for IMAP access, it says so in
the help. TB doesn't care. Why are you blaming TB for TP's security
requirement?

--
Wm...

[Wm]

On 23/10/2013 22:57, Neale D. Hind wrote:
> In message <ns417yBY...@127.0.0.1>, Neale D. Hind
> <nos...@127.0.0.1> writes
>> In message <iMr0D+AW...@127.0.0.1>, Neale D. Hind
>> <nos...@127.0.0.1> writes
>>> In message <Xcz5HkA3...@127.0.0.1>, Neale D. Hind
>>> <nos...@127.0.0.1> writes
>>>> I'll download an older TB version from OldApps and see if it works
>>>> any better with that.
>>>
>>> OK. Now running Thunderbird 13.0.1 (from June 2012) and that has
>>> connected to the TP Server straightaway (although I had to set a
>>> password for my TP user - Thunderbird doesn't seem to work well with
>>> an empty password).
>>
>>

From TP help
===
Access to POP3 or IMAP Server

Copyright (c) 1995-2002 Thus plc.
===
To use the server, Connect must be running. Also there must be a live
TCP/IP connection between the machine on which Connect is running and
the machine from which the account is accessed.

Because this will open a route whereby anybody could potentially access
users’ mail, each individual user who is allowed to access mail in this
way must:

be given Access POP3 permission

enter a valid Turnpike username & password

Ensure that any users for whom this facility is turned on do not have a
blank password. If the password is blank, it will be too easy for
unauthorised users to gain access.



Copyright (c) 1995-2002 Thus plc.
===
TP wants the password not TB

>> Really weird stuff and, I think, the problems are with Thunderbird.

Why?

>
> I don't think I'm going to continue with Thunderbird for an IMAP
> connection to Turnpike. It fills up my Virtual XP taskbar with IMAP
> logging windows that don't clear, even after exiting Thunderbird on the
> host.
>
> Then, even after closing Thunderbird on the host, it proves impossible
> to close connect, or indeed do anything with Turnpike, in the virtual
> machine.
>
> I have to shut down and restart the virtual machine. But then starting
> Turnpike produces an invalid data file error message and wants to
> rebuild the database. Prudently I copied my email folders before
> starting these Thunderbird tests.
>
> Again, I'm really surprised how easy this was for Outlook and how flaky
> (and data dangerous) the Thunderbird experience has been. Maybe (another
> day) I'll try TP as a POP3 server and see how TB gets on with that. But
> for the moment - I'm exhausted by the TB hoops I've been through.

It is not TB, it is the VM.

IIRC TPE is the bit that needs the VM not TPC. So, close down the VM.
Start TPC on the native OS. Connect from Connect (big telephone), this
will put you in Browse mode rather than Deliver mode so the connection
won't keep on being closed, which I think may be one reason you are
getting the repeat IMAP windows.

I am pissed off with you saying this is all TB's fault when I know it isn't.

Try Connect outside the VM with a better understanding of what you are
doing is my advice. Ask if you get stuck.

Getting the two joined together is worth the effort, moving stuff from
one folder to another inside T, not having to run the VM at all and
keeping TP running if that is what you want to do and I am right about
Connect working outside the VM.

I just tested things locally including firing up TP to remind myself and
it just works so *don't* diss TB until you know what you are talking
about, please.


--
Wm...

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In article <cNsau.169144$gu5....@fx05.fr7>, on Fri, 25 Oct 2013, Wm
<tcn...@tarrcity.demon.co.uk> wrote

That implies TP _will_ work with (them having) a blank password, they
just think it's a Really Bad Idea on security grounds. Which, of course,
for the current purpose,, isn't relevant.
>
Neale said that it appeared to be TB, not TP, that didn't seem to like
it being blank.

>
>Copyright (c) 1995-2002 Thus plc.
>===
>TP wants the password not TB

It may, but that's not what the help text you've quoted implies: "If ...
blank, it will be too easy ... to gain access" implies to me that it
_can_ be blank.

>
>>> Really weird stuff and, I think, the problems are with Thunderbird.
>
>Why?

[]

>> Again, I'm really surprised how easy this was for Outlook and how flaky
>> (and data dangerous) the Thunderbird experience has been. Maybe (another
>> day) I'll try TP as a POP3 server and see how TB gets on with that. But
>> for the moment - I'm exhausted by the TB hoops I've been through.

(I didn't know TP could be a POP3 server - can it? I thought it could
only be an IMAP one.)

>
>It is not TB, it is the VM.
>
>IIRC TPE is the bit that needs the VM not TPC. So, close down the VM.

(If true, that would make sense, as it's TPE that operates as an
explorer shell extension.)

>Start TPC on the native OS. Connect from Connect (big telephone), this

Would he have to install TP(C) on the host in order to do this? (I'm
assuming yes.)

>will put you in Browse mode rather than Deliver mode so the connection
>won't keep on being closed, which I think may be one reason you are
>getting the repeat IMAP windows.
>
>I am pissed off with you saying this is all TB's fault when I know it isn't.
>
>Try Connect outside the VM with a better understanding of what you are
>doing is my advice. Ask if you get stuck.
>
>Getting the two joined together is worth the effort, moving stuff from
>one folder to another inside T, not having to run the VM at all and

(I take it you mean TB there.)

>keeping TP running if that is what you want to do and I am right about
>Connect working outside the VM.
>
>I just tested things locally including firing up TP to remind myself
>and it just works so *don't* diss TB until you know what you are
>talking about, please.
>

It does sound as if _you_ weren't sure until just not when you tried it,
so cut him some slack (-:!
>
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If something works, thank an engineer. (Reported seen on a bumper sticker.)

[Wm]

Why are you picking on the person helping? Why don't you try it
yourself? I wouldn't have looked if I wasn't asked. I can say the IMAP
expectations are particular.

>>>> Really weird stuff and, I think, the problems are with Thunderbird.
>>
>> Why?
> []
>>> Again, I'm really surprised how easy this was for Outlook and how flaky
>>> (and data dangerous) the Thunderbird experience has been. Maybe (another
>>> day) I'll try TP as a POP3 server and see how TB gets on with that. But
>>> for the moment - I'm exhausted by the TB hoops I've been through.
>
> (I didn't know TP could be a POP3 server - can it? I thought it could
> only be an IMAP one.)

If you know so little ...

>> It is not TB, it is the VM.

>>ou

>> IIRC TPE is the bit that needs the VM not TPC. So, close down the VM.
>
> (If true, that would make sense, as it's TPE that operates as an
> explorer shell extension.)

What are you for? Try it.

>> Start TPC on the native OS. Connect from Connect (big telephone), this
>
> Would he have to install TP(C) on the host in order to do this? (I'm
> assuming yes.)

I have no fucking idea, I was trying to help him. I don't even know if
he installed TB on the VM or the native side as he didn't say.

>> will put you in Browse mode rather than Deliver mode so the connection
>> won't keep on being closed, which I think may be one reason you are
>> getting the repeat IMAP windows.
>>
>> I am pissed off with you saying this is all TB's fault when I know it
>> isn't.
>>
>> Try Connect outside the VM with a better understanding of what you are
>> doing is my advice. Ask if you get stuck.
>>
>> Getting the two joined together is worth the effort, moving stuff from
>> one folder to another inside T, not having to run the VM at all and
>
> (I take it you mean TB there.)

Y

>> keeping TP running if that is what you want to do and I am right about
>> Connect working outside the VM.
>>
>> I just tested things locally including firing up TP to remind myself
>> and it just works so *don't* diss TB until you know what you are
>> talking about, please.
>>
> It does sound as if _you_ weren't sure until just not when you tried it,
> so cut him some slack (-:!

No, no slack, start at the beginning of the thread and see if a
presumption wasn't already present.


--
Wm...
Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days

[Neale D. Hind]

In message <Evsau.153490$eg1....@fx18.fr7>, Wm
<tcn...@tarrcity.demon.co.uk> writes

Been away for a while, so just catching up.

The help file must be wrong. Empirically no password is required for TPs
IMAP server because my Outlook 2010 (running on the host) connects
without a password directly to the TP IMAP server running in the VM.

It is Thunderbird (running on the host), and an old version at that,
that cannot connect to the TP IMAP server on the VM unless a password is
supplied. The most recent version of Thunderbird, running on the host,
won't connect to the TP IMAP server running on the VM at all, with or
without a password.

[Neale D. Hind]

In message <cNsau.169144$gu5....@fx05.fr7>, Wm
<tcn...@tarrcity.demon.co.uk> writes
>From TP help
>===
<Snip>

>If the password is blank, it will be too easy for unauthorised users to
>gain access.

I think this confirms my experience that the IMAP server DOES work with
a blank password, the use of a password for TP's IMAP server is ONLY a
recommendation not a requirement.

>I am pissed off with you saying this is all TB's fault when I know it isn't.

I'm pleased that it works for you. My experience, in a sample size of
two (Outlook 2010 and Thunderbird) is that Outlook works instantly and
Thunderbird has caused me no end of aggravation, including the
corruption of mspool.

>Try Connect outside the VM with a better understanding of what you are
>doing is my advice. Ask if you get stuck.

I'm still keen to retain personalities (TB Identities) so I'm not done
trying to get it working yet.

>
>Getting the two joined together is worth the effort, moving stuff from
>one folder to another inside T, not having to run the VM at all and
>keeping TP running if that is what you want to do and I am right about
>Connect working outside the VM.

>I just tested things locally including firing up TP to remind myself
>and it just works so *don't* diss TB until you know what you are
>talking about, please.

In the interests of accuracy I'm only 'dissing' (your words) TB because
it is proving so much harder to get working *** with Connect running in
the VM *** than Outlook and has caused the corruption of my mspool. If
nothing else, I hope that this thread ensures that anyone else going the
TB / IMAP route ensures they have a backup of their TP email first.

Connect running on the host is not the scenario I have, although it may
be that that is the route I will end up taking as you your advice is
that it should then work.

[Wm]

On 03/11/2013 21:38, Neale D. Hind wrote:
> In message <Evsau.153490$eg1....@fx18.fr7>, Wm
> <tcn...@tarrcity.demon.co.uk> writes
>> On 23/10/2013 18:35, Neale D. Hind wrote:
>>> In message <Xcz5HkA3...@127.0.0.1>, Neale D. Hind
>>> <nos...@127.0.0.1> writes
>>>> I'll download an older TB version from OldApps and see if it works any
>>>> better with that.
>>>
>>> OK. Now running Thunderbird 13.0.1 (from June 2012) and that has
>>> connected to the TP Server straightaway (although I had to set a
>>> password for my TP user - Thunderbird doesn't seem to work well with an
>>> empty password).
>>
>> It is Turnpike that needs a password set for IMAP access, it says so
>> in the help. TB doesn't care. Why are you blaming TB for TP's
>> security requirement?
>
> Been away for a while, so just catching up.
>
> The help file must be wrong. Empirically no password is required for TPs
> IMAP server because my Outlook 2010 (running on the host) connects
> without a password directly to the TP IMAP server running in the VM.

If that is so it is because you have told TP not to use that control OR
you have told Outlook what the login details are. It can't know them
magically!

> It is Thunderbird (running on the host), and an old version at that,
> that cannot connect to the TP IMAP server on the VM unless a password is
> supplied. The most recent version of Thunderbird, running on the host,
> won't connect to the TP IMAP server running on the VM at all, with or
> without a password.

Which suggests to me Outlook knows the password (because you told it)
and uses it and TB doesn't so can't and asks you for it.

Simple question: does your TP have user/password control or not?

--
Wm...

[Neale D. Hind]

In message <Iuahu.64292$7k6....@fx30.fr7>, Wm

No. I never needed to enter a password to Outlook because I don't have
one in Turnpike.

>and uses it and TB doesn't so can't and asks you for it.
>
>Simple question: does your TP have user/password control or not?

No it doesn't.