[Hardware] Spindle and power supply

[Herwig D-Punkt]

Hello,

I've bought a 400W spindle from ebay: 48V 8.3A no. ER11.

I think that's the spindle most of you use. Is it possible to drive the spindle @ 12V with less current?

I think the 400W are a bit overpowered when it comes down to mill some µm of copper.

Just in case I've ordered a 400W powersupply from Meanwell which meets the requirements of the spindle, but I allready have a small 150W powersupply which can handle up to 6.7A so I just wanted to ask, if I can hook this little bastard up and have a go with it because I just can't wait :-D 

Merry X-Mas!!!!!

Herb

[Yiannis Mandravellos]

Hi Herb,

I have the same one and at 24V it draws (less than) ~1.8A of current, so it's less than 50W :)

Merry Christmas to you too!

Yiannis.

[Herwig D-Punkt]

Hi Yiannis,

thank you very much for your quick reply!!!

again Merry Christmas :-D

[Herwig D-Punkt]

So today I hooked up the 24V powersupply and tada it spinns :) The spindle just  drew 0.4A @ 24V is there something wrong?
I also did a simple drill test:
1: move with pronterface to a random position on the pcb
2: lowered the head manually until the hole was drilled.

But here is the problem: the drill bit hits the pcb and I lowered and lowered the head but nothing happened. Suddently the hole was cut and the head fell down.
The drill bit is a HSS-R 3.2 mm. Is there a problem about the spindle speed@ 24V or is the head not heavy enough, or is it simply not possible to drill with the type of bit I've used?
Hope someone can help me solving the problem :-)

Merry Christmas
Herb

[Carlos García]

Hi Herb,

Nice that you got that spindle working!
I just wanted to point out that the consumption will rise when the tool is under load.

For that type of drill bit it may be better to first use thinner drills to give the tool a chance to grip. The 2-3mm drills I use are actually endmills with sharp point.

Thanks for reporting the tests!!

Merry Christmas to you as well.

Cheers,
Carlos

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[Yiannis Mandravellos]

About the spindle current, sounds about right without any load :)

[Herwig D-Punkt]

Hello, it's alife!!! YEAHHH :-D
First of all, thank you all very much for design and help. You are a great community!

The milling went good, but maybe something went very wrong @ endmill ;)
Do I have to run the endmill process more than 1 time and go deeper every time instead of milling
through the whole pcb at once? Sorry for that questions, but I've never done anything with cnc.

This is the endmill I used:http://www.amazon.de/Titanium-Coated-Hartmetall-Bit-Gravur-Maschinen/dp/B00H9316QS

                         The Good                                                                                                                                                                                  The Bad&Ugly

[Carlos García]

Congratulations on the birth! :D

Yes the edge should be made with multiple passes.

Check if your spindle motor is slipping down because of heat (it seems that the traces are deeper and deeper, particularly at the Y in Factory).

Also, did you level the routing tool after changing it?

Cheers,
Carlos

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[Herwig D-Punkt]

Thank you for your quick reply Carlos! Yes I've leveled the bed after the tool change. I've also reprinted the Spindler holder in Abs to cope with softening of the material. Maybe I will put some rubber berween the holder and the spindle to prevent slipping. During the holidays I will have a crashcourse in eagle so I can do some sensefull stuff xD

Thanks alot
Herb

[Joco]

NICE! Keep us informed of progress as we can all learn from what others discover.

[Joco]

There are like a million such spindle's on eBay and you clearly sourced one that seems to be working, despite some heat challenges.   Are you able to post a ink to the spindle/supplier you sourced?

[Carlos García]

Yeah very nice! I hope ABS will fix that for you. I had to tighten the mechanism a LOT for the first version.

With the Dremel tool that simply doesn't happen:

- It is well ventilated (keeps cool)

- It is made of plastic (which increases friction)

- It has a plastic tab that basically prevents the drill from falling down

Plus you don't need more power supplies, it is much cheaper and reliable in the end.

So that's why I'm keeping it as the default for Cyclone. I'd recommend anyone new to go for the Dremel :)

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[Joco]

Good perspective Carlos and looking at the prices of getting a spindle and a power source a Dremel is cheaper. Even the 4000 series is about the same as the spindle/power-supply combo.   The only benefit I can see in the spindle approach is that you do have the option to put a PWM controller in the mix and control the RPM via G-Code.  I think that is possible.  Depending on the firmwares support of course.

[Herwig D-Punkt]

Hi, @Joco this is the source of my spindle: http://m.ebay.de/itm/281494093770?_mwBanner=1 I swapped the spindle with a dremel and there was no more slipping.
(the small bits in the upper left corner of the "Y" and in the bottom of the logo are because of milling on both sites).

[Carlos García]

That's awesome, congratulations!

Can you post a picture of your build? :-P

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[Joco]

@Herwig D-Punkt very nice milling.  Looks like you are off to a flying start.   As I am experimenting with PCB milling now.  Could you share what milling bits you are using and a few other key details?

I'm very interested in:

1. the style and size of milling bit in use.  e.g. V, End Mill, Bull Nose etc
2. What feed rate and RPM are you using?   I suspect from your spindle the rpm is circa 10,000rpm?
3. what milling deep you use?  e.g. 0.05mm, 0.1mm more?
4. assuming you do multiple passes at the same Z level what amount of overlap did you use.  Overlap being impacted by the size of the milling bit.

Cheers.

[Herwig D-Punkt]

Hello,

@Joco:  1. At the moment I've used only 0.2 mm v-shaped 60° bits and 0,06 ", 1.6 mm endmills.
             2. The feedrate is 500 (default, I've not touched it). The rpm are about 10,000 rpm I think(dremel 3000 on max :-D )
             3. I've used 0.2 mm depth when milling the cyclone logo.
             4. I used 3 passes with 0.6 mm depth each.

@Carlos: Some pictures of my current setup. The milled logo below was milled with the flexible shaft installed. I think it cut a little bit deeper than the maintool. Dont know if it's slipping but I don't think it is. Maybe 0.2 mm is now to deep for the flexible shaft.

            

[Joco]

Nice build! Looks very tidy.

With the flexible shaft do you get any heat build up on it?   I have been running at ~30k rpm with the main tool but using the flexible shaft and being able to use the dremel for other duties would be good. I guess 10k rpm is kinder on the shaft from a wear and tear point of view.

500mm/min feedrate?  WOW!   I get heat issues in the bearings on mine at 150mm/min due to the level of lateral loading and have had to back things off to 80mm/min to keep the heat down on the bearings.

Good to know re the 0.2mm.   I had issues with 0.1mm where the auto level compensation wasn't quite enough.  I'm going to experiment some more with refined technique on the level compensation at 0.1mm and 0.15mm.

On the green clamps, are they in PLA or ABS?  Just out of interest since I have done all my printing in PLA to date.

Cheers.   :-)

[Herwig D-Punkt]

Hi joco, everything is printed in PLA except the green clamps, they are printed in ABS to compensate heat issues.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!!!!
Herb

PS: first circuit done. Love the Cyclone ;-)

[Joco]

thanks for that info. I think the key is the 60 degree V bit. I am just not getting a good finish from the 30 degree ones I have. The isolation paths show quite a bit of burring. I'm putting my experiments on hold until I get the rest of the bits I have on order. Just no point in fighting with these 30 degree bits. The do work but leave a bit of a hackish finish.

[Carlos García]

You can use them to engrave wood or plexiglass, they will work just fine for that :)

On 25 Dec 2014 11:14, "Joco" <james...@clear.net.nz> wrote:

thanks for that info. I think the key is the 60 degree V bit.  I am just not getting a good  finish from the 30 degree ones I have. The isolation paths show quite a bit of burring. I'm putting my experiments on hold until I get the rest of the bits I have on order. Just no point in fighting with these 30 degree bits. The do work but leave a bit of a hackish finish.

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[Herwig D-Punkt]

My 6 month old dremel died :-(. So I had to think about my spindle again :-). With
the spindle there comes a nice metal holder. So to prevent the motor from slipping I
tested this holder and with only 1 screw set there is no (seeable slipping). With 4 screws set
it must be bulletproof xD. So I designed a new z-carriage. I know it's a bit bulky, but thats all my
beta stuff. I report back soon, when I tried it.

[Iceflow]

It looks nice, solid and professional!! ;) i always preffer a spindle than a dremmel, call me crazy hehehhe

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[Carlos García]

Sad to hear about that Dremel Herwig :(

On the other hand, the Z carriage now looks really sturdy. Nice spindle holder!!

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[Marc Muntada]

Wow!

this is exactly what I wanted to design for my spindle,as I have the same support.

Would you mind sharing it? It would be really useful!:)

Thanks in advance and happy new year to you all Cyclone users!

[Herwig D-Punkt]

Hi Marc, sure I'll share it with you :-D
But remember it's still beta, and you also have to rearange the milling table, because
the spindle+holde stands away alot in Y-direction.

Happy new Year
and happy milling
Herb

[Marc Muntada]

Thank you very much Herb!

I'll try to print it soon and post the results! :)

happy milling!

El dijous 1 de gener de 2015 15:48:27 UTC+1, Herwig D-Punkt va escriure:

[Herwig D-Punkt]

Hello, I was not a friend of the fact, that the tool pressure on the pcb relys on the gravity of the spindle + holder, so I redesigned the carriage + holder a bit to have
more pressure on the pcb. I did that also, because I had some problems with non milled power tracks allthough the autobed leveling was activated :-D. My first attemp was a little weight which I mounted to the spindle holder (Schwarzenegger would be proud ;-)). The cutting has a lot of burr due to the high center of gravity. After that milling I've cutted down the rods, so it should be a bit better. Also the stepper in Y-direction skipped a bit which you can see in the offset of the holes and the endmill(I think not enough power on the nemas). Next to-do(for me) timing belts :-D.

[Yiannis Mandravellos]

And I thought I was the only one that didn't like the fact that the spindle weight is the only means of pressure.

Nice job Herwig :)

[Iceflow]

Maybe a little semi-soft kind of foam under the pcb would be of help... dont try myself...

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