Power Nullify Questions

[Jeff K]

 Hey all,

 

A PC of mine wants to have a character with Power Nullification with Variable Effect built into a focus.  This is a second set of powers that build on my earlier post “How to Build a Better Demonic Soul-Sucking Whip.”

 

Here is the set of Miracles so far (in addition to those listed in the other post):

 

Bind:

            U (+2)

            Capacity: Range, Mass

            Power Capacity: Mass (+2)

            Total Focus Modifier (-0)

            Obvious (-1)

            Endless (+3)

Fragile (-1)

If/Then [Whip must remain in contact with Target] (-1)

Reduced Capacity [Range only 320 yds to 3.2 yds] (-1)

 

Special: Target may use Brawl to try and escape once per round

 

Nullify:

U (+2)

Capacity: Range

Variable Effect (+4)

If/Then [Variable Effect is only Nullify] (-1)

Duration (+2)

Total Focus Modifier (-0)

Attached to Bind (-2)

If/Then [Target must remain bound by whip] (-1)

Obvious (-1)

Go Last (-1)

 

Special: Mandatory Willpower Investment

            Special: The target can attempt to avoid Nullify with a defense roll as if they were attacked.

 

 

Any words of wisdom on using Nullify?

 

Does anyone else think that Nullify is a bit over powered?  After reading Progenitor and what happens to Zipperneck, a Tier 3, by a Tier 10, I think maybe it is.

 

How do you use/manage it in your game?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Daniel Kane]

Remember, Variable Effect works this way:

1. Miracle with Variable Effect rolls as an action, succeeds, you dedicate dice to emulated effect
2. You declare an action for your emulated effect and roll for it (if applicable)

If you want step 1 to not require a declared action and a set, it needs to be Permanent so it can go off "automatically" when the Attached condition is met, without a declared action (and accompanying set).

~Daniel

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[Hotjets]

Any words of wisdom on using Nullify?

 

Does anyone else think that Nullify is a bit over powered?  After reading Progenitor and what happens to Zipperneck, a Tier 3, by a Tier 10, I think maybe it is.

 

How do you use/manage it in your game?

Strictly from a rules standpoint, Zipperneck should not have been affected by the relatively weak Nullify that resulted in his death. I don't have Progenitor handy, but the Nullify was, IIRC, 2hd. Zipperneck, according to the rules for Nullify should have resisted with his (best) defense, which was, what, 10hd in HA? No way that 2hd Nullify beats that! And the range was, what, 20 yards? Was Zipperneck really only 60 feet away?

If the target can resist with their best defense, Nullify shouldn't be that much of a problem, unless it has loads of hard and/or wiggle dice. 

I love Progenitor as a setting, and the art is very evocative, and the writing is a pleasure, but I have issues with some of the power builds there.
 
Hotjets    

 

Thanks in advance.

[Jeff K]

Daniel,

 

So let me see if I’m following your line of reasoning.

 

Round 1:  The PC declares to use Bind to bind the target, then rolls and succeeds

Round 2:  The PC declares to use Variable Effect to Nullify the Target’s Source whatever it may be, then rolls and succeeds

Round 3:  The PC declares and rolls the Nullify dice pool to see if it works.

 

Now of course I’m removing all of the targets actions and their possibility of escape, but does that look correct?

 

You also mention using “Permanent so it can go off "automatically" when the Attached condition is met, without a declared action (and accompanying set).”  My question is how do you differentiate that use of Permanent versus a Permanent Nullification?

[Jeff K]

Hotjets,

 

It was my interpretation that when the rules stated “The target can attempt to avoid Nullify with a defense roll as if you were attacking,” I took defense to mean Dodge, Block or Defending with a Power, but not a passive defense like LAR or HAR.  I also took “avoid” to not get hit or touched by the Nullify at all.

 

Maybe Mr. Stolze and Mr. Ivey could shed some light on this.

 

PS – Mr. Ivey, you still owe me a post for Audrey “Powerhound” O’Niel.  Thanks!

[Hotjets]

 

Hotjets,

 

It was my interpretation that when the rules stated “The target can attempt to avoid Nullify with a defense roll as if you were attacking,” I took defense to mean Dodge, Block or Defending with a Power, but not a passive defense like LAR or HAR.  I also took “avoid” to not get hit or touched by the Nullify at all.

In the WT EE rules, "avoid" is used as a general term for any defense, including LAR and HAR.  Nullify would be pretty powerful if it automatically bypassed HAR, since that seems to be a very common sort of defense. It would be giving Nullify the equivalent of the Non-Physical Extra. See the first sentence in the following sentence from page  120:

"The Defends quality ordinarily lets you roll the power’s dice pool to block or avoid an attack against you. There are several ways to change the Defends quality using Extras and Flaws."

"If you want your power to give you a Light Armor Rating, take the Armored Defense Flaw for –2 Points per die. When you activate the power it gives you width in LAR to every hit location. Armored Defense makes the defense vulnerable to weapon Penetration (page 82) unless you also take the Hardened Defense Extra for +1 per die."

Based on the above, LAR, for example, can be used to avoid an attack against you. Passive defenses don't seem to be excluded. 

Hotjets  

[Daniel Kane]

Extras and Flaws on a Quality with Variable Effect do not carry over to the emulated power!  They only apply to the meta-power.

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[Daniel Kane]

Nullify isn't an attack, it's a Useful Quality.  If HAR applied to non-attacks, there would be not point to Immunity.

I think Zipperneck has Immunity as well, which is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

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[Shane Ivey]

It was my interpretation that when the rules stated “The target can attempt to avoid Nullify with a defense roll as if you were attacking,” I took defense to mean Dodge, Block or Defending with a Power, but not a passive defense like LAR or HAR.  I also took “avoid” to not get hit or touched by the Nullify at all.

Right. Nullify is not a physical attack, it's a Useful effect. You can try to avoid its effects by getting out of the way or resisting it with your hyperbrainpower or whatever fits the situation. But unless I'm misremembering something, I probably wouldn't apply armor to it.

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[Jeff K]

Shane,

 

When you say "resisting" do you mean having a Resistance Roll?  I think that would definitely balance things out.

[Shane Ivey]

When you say "resisting" do you mean having a Resistance Roll?  I think that would definitely balance things out.

Right.

[Jeff K]

Daniel,

 

So to make the Variable Effect Nullify last you would have to spend Willpower to do so.  That also really limits the all encompassing nature of a Variable Effect Nullify Miracle.

 

Thanks!

[Daniel Kane]

Or cancel out the Permanent Extra with four points of Flaws on the emulated power!

~Daniel

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