Wild Talents: Getting over the hump

[Shane Ivey]

Folks,

The most recent episode of Role Playing Public Radio featured an in-depth discussion of the pros and cons of Wild Talents based on an extended campaign. 

http://slangdesign.com/rppr/2012/03/podcast-episode/rppr-episode-71-youve-got-wild-talents/

One of the things that piqued my interest -- and it's something that's come up before -- was the observation that while WT is easy to run and allows for great flexibility in creating characters and powers, it takes a lot of effort for new players to really get it.

I would like to put together a brief primer for the blog and for free download (well, really I'd like Greg to put it together because he's better at that kind of thing, but that'll depend on his schedule) to help new players get the system immediately, so they don't have to do so much work before the light clicks on and they start enjoying it.

So, gamers who have played Wild Talents with newbies, give us your thoughts. Where were the stumbling blocks?

--
Shane Ivey, Arc Dream Publishing
Cthulhu Mythos gaming, every quarter: TheUnspeakableOath.com

Now on Kickstarter -- Call of Cthulhu in Lovecraft's Dreamlands: http://kck.st/GZJWUi

[Matt]

The concept of initiative is something ingrained in many a gamer and the ORE "when did it happen" system takes a while to click.

Building "flexible powers" with Augment or Variable Effect is also hard since most players don't seem to have the seemingly infinite reserves of willpower needed to make those powers shine.

-Matt Conlon

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[Viktor Eikman]

On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 9:40 PM, Shane Ivey <shane...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So, gamers who have played Wild Talents with newbies, give us your thoughts.
> Where were the stumbling blocks?

The major stumbling block is the cyclomatic complexity of character
creation. The wealth of interconnecting options, in itself, is
discouraging to a normal person.

I'm running a long Kerberos campaign (started in 1798, it's now 1822),
where three players out of five (all newbies) have opted not to
possess substantial superhuman powers. That's great for the setting,
and a valid exercise of player freedom. Being forced to make a choice
in a context one does not understand would be boring. Just inventing
their own Skills was taxing enough for some of these people. A sixth
gave up.

I get the feeling Wild Talents was built on the microeconomic view of
people as rational optimizers. In reality, Herbert Simon's theory of
bounded rationality is closer to the mark. You stumble when you get
the feeling there is too much to take in, the impression that building
something you should be proud of would take work, and you would risk
embarrassment by trying. If you make a choice in that mindset, you
will always be disappointed.

http://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_on_the_paradox_of_choice.html

The solution, in writing a primer, would probably be to use a prefab
archetype, introduce a _short_ list of Extras and Flaws as if there
were no more, build a _complex_ character with them (graphics showing
connections), and then reveal there are more building blocks. Keep it
brief. Show unnecessary technical definitions in pop-ups.

You can't change the problem, because it is the total complexity of
the product of you're selling, and that is also a selling point, once
they're past the hurdles. Just know your audience: Novices, non-GMs,
more or less ordinary people who do not spontaneously plow through RPG
hardbacks for entertainment, but may one day master and love what
bores or frightens them now, because it is new and requires more
choice than race/class/alignment.

Viktor

[Jakob Pape]

This has been my experience, too. Flexible powers are difficult for some people to build, and then use well.

There is also the choice of what kind of dice to use, and when. I never had any difficulty, but several new players have taken some time to grasp that some powers are best bought as 2HD, for example, rather than 1d+1WD - since the second option is more expensive, it is expected to be more effective, when 2HD is far better in almost all situations.

[matt]

I agree with the 'initiative' being a bit of a stumbling block for new
players along with when actions resolve.
I haven't had a problem with explaining building powers to new players
because 1) I come from a Champions background and Wild Talents is
easier than that 2) I give player premade characters.

A primer would be awesome. Bringing it to 4 page pdf would be sweet!
Or some kind of quick start.

For me, from what I've seen, the biggest rule confusion is how/when to
use willpower. May times they players avoid it due to confusion.
(Which I have only found out after the game so I wasn't able to
address it in game.)

On Apr 2, 9:26 am, Jakob Pape <chaoman...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This has been my experience, too. Flexible powers are difficult for some
> people to build, and then use well.
>
> There is also the choice of what kind of dice to use, and when. I never had
> any difficulty, but several new players have taken some time to grasp that
> some powers are best bought as 2HD, for example, rather than 1d+1WD - since
> the second option is more expensive, it is expected to be more effective,
> when 2HD is far better in almost all situations.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 2:34 AM, Matt <moeh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The concept of initiative is something ingrained in many a gamer and the
> > ORE "when did it happen" system takes a while to click.
>
> > Building "flexible powers" with Augment or Variable Effect is also hard
> > since most players don't seem to have the seemingly infinite reserves of
> > willpower needed to make those powers shine.
>
> > -Matt Conlon
>

> > On Apr 1, 2012, at 9:40 AM, Shane Ivey <shane.i...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Folks,
>
> > The most recent episode of Role Playing Public Radio featured an in-depth
> > discussion of the pros and cons of Wild Talents based on an extended
> > campaign.
>

> >http://slangdesign.com/rppr/2012/03/podcast-episode/rppr-episode-71-y...

>
> > One of the things that piqued my interest -- and it's something that's
> > come up before -- was the observation that while WT is easy to run and
> > allows for great flexibility in creating characters and powers, it takes a
> > lot of effort for new players to really get it.
>
> > I would like to put together a brief primer for the blog and for free
> > download (well, really I'd like Greg to put it together because he's better
> > at that kind of thing, but that'll depend on his schedule) to help new
> > players get the system immediately, so they don't have to do so much work
> > before the light clicks on and they start enjoying it.
>
> > So, gamers who have played Wild Talents with newbies, give us your
> > thoughts. Where were the stumbling blocks?
>
> > --

> > *Shane Ivey, Arc Dream Publishing*
> > Cthulhu Mythos gaming, every quarter: TheUnspeakableOath.com<http://www.theunspeakableoath.com>

[Darryl Green]

The biggest problem my players had in game one was they built powers
that were far too complex. They saw all of the options, built their
own characters, and then handed me powers that had so many extras and
flaws on them that each of them had to read a paragraph to remember
all the restrictions they had before they chose to use the power. I
think it was because they saw all of the options and felt that they
should use them if they are there. Something telling new players
"simple powers are okay" is what I would suggest.

I don't know if this is intending to include new GM's, also, but if it
does, I had the most trouble wrapping my head around archetypes and
permissions.

On Apr 1, 2:40 pm, Shane Ivey <shane.i...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Folks,
>
> The most recent episode of Role Playing Public Radio featured an in-depth
> discussion of the pros and cons of Wild Talents based on an extended
> campaign.
>

> http://slangdesign.com/rppr/2012/03/podcast-episode/rppr-episode-71-y...

>
> One of the things that piqued my interest -- and it's something that's come
> up before -- was the observation that while WT is easy to run and allows
> for great flexibility in creating characters and powers, it takes a lot of
> effort for new players to really get it.
>
> I would like to put together a brief primer for the blog and for free
> download (well, really I'd like Greg to put it together because he's better
> at that kind of thing, but that'll depend on his schedule) to help new
> players get the system immediately, so they don't have to do so much work
> before the light clicks on and they start enjoying it.
>
> So, gamers who have played Wild Talents with newbies, give us your
> thoughts. Where were the stumbling blocks?
>
> --

> *Shane Ivey, Arc Dream Publishing*

> Cthulhu Mythos gaming, every quarter:

> TheUnspeakableOath.com<http://www.theunspeakableoath.com>

[Kevin L. Nault]

I've had people get pretty confused by the building-block approach to powers, too.  They often come in from another game where attack and defense powers are listed differently, and are confused by the fact that a single power can throw fire at others, raise a fire shield that defends them, and light candles or a camp fire.  More importantly, they miss that it is possible, and end up with three separate powers before I have to talk them down from the ledge.

I don't want to say that the primer shouldn't have the cafeteria powers, but maybe it should only have them in sample builds, to emphasize the point about not needing to take, e.g., Block or Heavy Armor to have some defense capabilities.

Religion, or the duty which we owe our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force and violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience.
  -- James Madison

[Matt]

The issue I've run into with multiaspect powers (A,D,U) is that some players want the Utility to be reliable, versatile but relatively minor. 

Using the fire starter as an example a 2hd "Ignition" power costs 4-8pts but tacking that to a 10d attack and defense power is 20pts.

In general a Xhd defense is more reliable than a multipower so I'm always hard pressed to decide which way to go. 

-Matt Conlon

[Bruce Turner]

Just as there's no requirement to build multiple attack, defense and utility powers, there is no rule saying that you can't do that. Have the 10d power as AD only, then add on a cheap U-only power with many fewer dice for the minor utility effects. 4d with only U could be as cheap as 8 pts.

BRT

Sent from my iPad

[Hotjets]

To what degree does logic trump powers? For example, let’s say that a
talent has 10HD in invisibility with the defends and useful qualities.
He’s visible and gets into a very small elevator, and turns invisible
as the doors slowly close. An enemy talent with flame powers sees Mr.
10HD go into the elevator and fade out. Fire Guy shoots a 5hd blast of
fire into the elevator just before the doors close. If the defends
quality of invisibility is based on being hard to see, do the narrow
quarters basically nullify the invisibility’s defense? You don’t
really have to see the target to hit them if you know where they are,
right? But from a rules standpoint, it should be impossible to hit the
invisible character. What happens in situations like this, where the
mechanics say one thing and reason another? What if someone stuck an
automatic shotgun between the doors as they closed and pulled the
trigger a few times? What if fire guy's attack had the engulfs extra?

Do defenses accumulate, or do the best take precedent? FREX, a PC has
3HD in defends related to flight and another 5d based on permanent,
always on precognition. What is their total defense if they are
flying? Clearly, invulnerability allows both heavy armor and light
armor to work during the same turn, so what about other sorts of
defenses?

In the rulebook, invulnerability that acts against all sources, like
other variable effects, is not bought with any capacity. In
Progenitor, sometimes it is bought with self only and sometimes it
isn’t. It seems very cheap for such a comprehensive power to get a -3
self only discount.

How do you gain base will through character advancement? How much does
it cost? Do you need to spend a point of base will when you buy it?

I’d like to see examples of how to apply Alternate Form or other
“shift dice around“ or “alter your powers” shapeshifting powers.

Could one buy the defends quality and specify that its dice are
constant, but that the defends quality’s flavor shifts based on the
power you use? FREX, a PC has invisibility, flight, and telekinesis.
Can they just buy 5hd in defense with If/Then (only if one or more of
these powers is active) and simply say that that is how the defense is
working? This, as opposed to buying defends three separate times?

I have harm with the duration extra. Let’s say that it involves firing
matter eating nanobots. An attacks power with duration (or endless or
permanent) automatically launches the same attack every turn as long
as the scene goes on. I attack and hit bad guy 1 on turn 1, 2 on turn
2, and 3 on turn 3. Does this attack continue against all of them
automatically, or is my attack slot committed and exclusive, only
repeating against one target during that encounter?

[Marco Subias]

To what degree does logic trump powers? For example, let’s say that a
talent has 10HD in invisibility with the defends and useful qualities.
He’s visible and gets into a very small elevator, and turns invisible
as the doors slowly close. An enemy talent with flame powers sees Mr.

10HD go into the elevator and shoots a 3hd blast of fire into the

elevator just before the doors close. If the defends quality of
invisibility is based on being hard to see, do the narrow quarters
basically nullify the invisibility’s defense? You don’t really have to
see the target to hit them if you know where they are, right? But from
a rules standpoint, it should be impossible to hit the invisible
character. What happens in situations like this, where the mechanics

say one thing and reason another? What if fire guy's attack had the
engulfs extra? What if a normal guy just shoved an automatic shotgun
into the elevator as the doors closed and pulled the trigger a few
times?

Do defenses accumulate, or does the best take precedent? FREX, a PC

has 3HD in defends related to flight and another 5d based on
permanent, always on precognition. What is their total defense if they
are flying? Clearly, invulnerability allows both heavy armor and light

armor to work during the same turn, so what about other defenses?

In the rulebook, immunity that acts against all sources, like other
variable effects, is not bought with any capacity. In Progenitor, this
doesn't seem to be the case, and self only is generally included,
making broad-spectrum immunity very cheap. Also, in the rules, any
appropriate immunity, even 2HD worth, nullifies any and all non-
physical attacks. In Progenitor, it seems to imply that immunity only
gobbles such things, and many characters have many HD in immunity.
This should be clarified.

How do you gain base will through character advancement? How much does

it cost? Do you need to spend a point of base will to do this?

I’d like to see examples of how to apply Alternate Form or other
“shift dice around“ or “alter your powers” shapeshifting powers.

Could one buy the defends quality and specify that its dice are
constant, but that the defends quality’s flavor shifts based on the
power you use? FREX, a PC has invisibility, flight, and telekinesis.
Can they just buy 5hd in defense with If/Then (only if one or more of
these powers is active) and simply say that that is how the defense is
working? This, as opposed to buying defends three separate times?

I have harm with the duration extra. Let’s say that it involves firing

matter eating nanobots. An attacks power with duration automatically

launches the same attack every turn as long as the scene goes on. I
attack and hit bad guy 1 on turn 1, 2 on turn 2, and 3 on turn 3. Does
this attack continue against all of them automatically, or is my
attack slot committed and exclusive, only repeating against one target
during that encounter?

Hotjets

[Marco Subias]

To what degree does logic trump powers? For example, let’s say that a
talent has 10HD in invisibility with the defends and useful qualities.
He’s visible and gets into a very small elevator, and turns invisible
as the doors slowly close. An enemy talent with flame powers sees Mr.
10HD go into the elevator and shoots a 3hd blast of fire into the
elevator just before the doors close. If the defends quality of
invisibility is based on being hard to see, do the narrow quarters
basically nullify the invisibility’s defense? You don’t really have to
see the target to hit them if you know where they are, right? But from
a rules standpoint, it should be impossible to hit the invisible
character. What happens in situations like this, where the mechanics

say one thing and reason another? What if someone stuck an automatic

shotgun between the doors as they closed and pulled the trigger a few
times? What if fire guy's attack had the engulfs extra/

Do defenses accumulate, or do the best take precedent? FREX, a PC has

3HD in defends related to flight and another 5d based on permanent,
always on precognition. What is their total defense if they are
flying? Clearly, invulnerability allows both heavy armor and light
armor to work during the same turn, so what about other defenses?

In the rulebook, invulnerability that acts against all sources, like

other variable effects, is not bought with any capacity. In

Progenitor, sometimes it is bought with self only and sometimes it
isn’t.

How do you gain base will through character advancement? How much does

it cost? Do you need to spend a point of base will when you buy it?

I’d like to see examples of how to apply Alternate Form or other
“shift dice around“ or “alter your powers” shapeshifting powers.

Could one buy the defends quality and specify that its dice are
constant, but that the defends quality’s flavor shifts based on the
power you use? FREX, a PC has invisibility, flight, and telekinesis.

Can they just buy 5hd in defense with IF/Then (only if one or more of

[matt]

I would rule it...
For the fire blast vs elevator:
The defense wouldn't work if the fire blast was an area effect, if the
fire blast was a 'beam' then it would work.

precog + flight:
They are both separate defenses. It isn't lists that the flight
defense is permanent but I'd take the higher of the two powers as
defense.

[Hotjets]

Sorry about the multiple posts. The posts kept not showing up so I re-
posted.

Matt, I posted not just to ask rules questions, but to bring up points
that could be confusing to "get over the hump" so that one could
understand how Wild Talents is played. The elevator question, FREX, is
not just a question about that specific situation, but about the
degree to which mechanics may take a back seat to the situation in the
story. This is not clear and does not seem to really be discussed at
all in the rules. As such, a player has every right to say something
like "look, I bought X defense and no matter what the situation is or
how my power works, I shouldn't be hittable because he has X-1
attacks." Many gamers would be quick to say that they rules are on
their side and that they didn't by a defense that was useless in a
particular situation, and that if they did want that, they would have
bought the power with an appropriate if/then.

The points that I raised are, I think, ones that need better official
clarification.

Hotjets

[Daniel Kane]

On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 8:30 AM, Hotjets <Hot...@verizon.net> wrote:

To what degree does logic trump powers? For example, let’s say that a
talent has 10HD in invisibility with the defends and useful qualities.
He’s visible and gets into a very small elevator, and turns invisible
as the doors slowly close. An enemy talent with flame powers sees Mr.
10HD go into the elevator and fade out. Fire Guy shoots a 5hd blast of
fire into the elevator just before the doors close. If the defends
quality of invisibility is based on being hard to see, do the narrow
quarters basically nullify the invisibility’s defense? You don’t
really have to see the target to hit them if you know where they are,
right? But from a rules standpoint, it should be impossible to hit the
invisible character. What happens in situations like this, where the
mechanics say one thing and reason another? What if someone stuck an
automatic shotgun between the doors as they closed and pulled the
trigger a few times? What if fire guy's attack had the engulfs extra?

My approach is more that 10hd in an invisibility-based D quality can't just be "I stand still and they don't shoot me 'cause I'm invisible," so if it's possible for the attack to miss the D quality applies.  On the other hand, if the power has enough Radius to fill the space, invisibility can't possibly help.  If it has area dice, those will apply normally (even if the attack itself misses).  If the power creates an environmental hazard (i.e. U (create flaming napalm)) then it would be resisted with an appropriate non-physical defense like Immunity, and it's not a matter of A vs. D opposition.
 

Do defenses accumulate, or do the best take precedent? FREX, a PC has
3HD in defends related to flight and another 5d based on permanent,
always on precognition. What is their total defense if they are
flying? Clearly, invulnerability allows both heavy armor and light
armor to work during the same turn, so what about other sorts of
defenses?

Armored Defense qualities and/or Interference+Duration will stack, because they ignore timing and just pile up gobble dice.

I'm going to reverse your example to sidestep the "what do I do with normal dice in a duration power?" problem and say you have a permanent 3HD precog-based defense and 5d in Coord + Dodge or whatever.  If the 3HD doesn't have Interference, then it gives you a 3x10 gobble set every round.  If you roll a 2x6 on your defense roll, you then have 3x10 and 2x6 gobble sets, each of which takes effect on its own initiative.  Even if your defense roll was hard dice or you rolled a x10 set, you would have two D sets, not one super-set.
 

In the rulebook, invulnerability that acts against all sources, like
other variable effects, is not bought with any capacity. In
Progenitor, sometimes it is bought with self only and sometimes it
isn’t. It seems very cheap for such a comprehensive power to get a -3
self only discount.

Progenitor does indeed do weird stuff with Flaws sometimes.
 

How do you gain base will through character advancement? How much does
it cost? Do you need to spend a point of base will when you buy it?

I’d like to see examples of how to apply Alternate Form or other
“shift dice around“ or “alter your powers” shapeshifting powers.

You make Dr. Jurassic sad.  Or would you prefer an example of a character with *multiple* alternate forms, each with different powers?
 

Could one buy the defends quality and specify that its dice are
constant, but that the defends quality’s flavor shifts based on the
power you use? FREX, a PC has invisibility, flight, and telekinesis.
Can they just buy 5hd in defense with If/Then (only if one or more of
these powers is active) and simply say that that is how the defense is
working? This, as opposed to buying defends three separate times?

This kind of ties back in to how the unstatted "fluff" of powers affects their utility.  Should an Invisibility power with a D quality specify If/Then (ineffective against attacks with Radius), or should that be inferred by the GM?  Are all D Qualities with the same Source and no Extras entirely redundant?
 

I have harm with the duration extra. Let’s say that it involves firing
matter eating nanobots. An attacks power with duration (or endless or
permanent) automatically launches the same attack every turn as long
as the scene goes on. I attack and hit bad guy 1 on turn 1, 2 on turn
2, and 3 on turn 3. Does this attack continue against all of them
automatically, or is my attack slot committed and exclusive, only
repeating against one target during that encounter?

A Useful quality certainly continues against all of them.  I want to say Attacks is committed and exclusive (Facebook official!), but I'm not sure there's actually text in the book to back that up.


Things my players stumbled with:

Power options, like everyone else.  Specifically, they had trouble using Extras and Flaws to tinker with a Cafeteria power that wasn't *quite* what they wanted.

Also, the Willpower economy is pretty downplayed, at least when compared to Godlike.  Very few Cafeteria powers interact with Willpower, and despite having more word count devoted to it in character creation than anything but powers, my players completely forgot about it unless reminded.

The capacity chart is the most important thing that isn't in the quick reference section in the back, and something that comes up a lot in play.  "Wait... how fast can I fly while carrying the body?"  Speaking of capacities, it's sometimes unclear how capacities interact (or not) with Augments or Variable Effect.

All I'm thinking of at the moment!

Cheers,
Daniel

[matt]

Hotjets,
Ah... I understand now. I agree with what you said about them needing
to be clarified too.

Daniel has a point. I'm always references the Capacities chart. (I
have a sticky to bookmark the page.) It really is an important chart.
[Makes note to print it out for the next game...]

[Hotjets]

Maybe any update should offer the GM and his players two options. It
could be stated that Wild Talents can be played in a way that is
rather flexible and that attacks, defenses and useful actions should
be considered in context, and that even if a player bought a power
that works mechanically one way, that the GM - the final word - should
waive its application if logic dictates against it. The second option
would be that the game be played solidly in line with the rules so
that there is no ambiguity. Either way, this should be agreed on
before play by all involved.

The capacities chart is easy to understand, unless you mix capacities.
That certainly needs clarification.

I'd also like to see an expanded chart listing weight and defenses for
everyday objects and military and civilian vehicles.

Hotjets

[Hotjets]

And, especially for beginners, give examples of situations that would
be equivalent to the various difficulty numbers. I can guesstimate
fine for my purposes, but for someone new to the system, there should
be more guidance. Ditto for how many dice are done in K and/or S for a
variety of natural hazards.

As long as I'm writing a wish list, I'd like some more stats for
animals, including a few poisonous or exotic ones, such as electric
eels, spitting cobras, and piranhas.

Hotjets

[Hotjets]

As if I haven't posted enough already...

Any new version should have a dozen or so example vehicles, much like
EE has animals listed and statted out. They should list the name,
weight, wound boxes, speed, armor and that sort of thing, showing how
the rules fits with the vehicle designs. This also would help new and
old GMs better understand if a PC can destroy, for example, an SUV
with one punch.

Hotjets

[Christopher Loree]

What would be really good are resources showing lots of pre-statted characters, powers, devices, etc.

I've actually been looking around online a lot, trying to find ORE character write-ups that people have done and posted on various forums. I hear about them all the time on various podcasts I listen to and I can never find these mythical write-ups. 

[Christopher Loree]

There are a few great examples I can remember. One was a character that Greg Stolze posted on RPG.net called "Tuumblor Prince of Space" that really opened my eyes early-on to just how ungodly flexible ORE can be and how much potential there is for truly creative powers and abilities. Seeing things put together I think goes a very long way toward getting it through to people how ORE works. There are, I've found two general types of people concerning ORE; 1) People who understand how it works (and hence, Love it.) and 2) People who don't grasp it and hence still wander the night looking for a truly flexible system (like Hero or GURPS) that doesn't require the constant load of bookkeeping that those systems usually chain you to, without realizing that they've already found it, in ORE but didn't grasp it, so they missed it and moved on.

Describing how the various Extras and Flaws and Capacities etc. work is great. But, I really feel there needs to be a lot more *showing it work*, seeing it in action, if you will. After the Miracle Cafeteria in the Essential Edition, there are a handful of really useful little power write-ups that show just a touch of what can be done with a firm grasp of the internal logic of the system. We need more of *that.* IMHO.

[Daniel Kane]

Ooh.  A couple step-by-step tutorials on the process of designing a more complex power would be awesome, especially if they highlighted coming up with a new Extra or Flaw if the ready-to-play ones feel like a stretch.

It occurs to me that I never actually finished statting up The Girl Who Cannot Possibly Be Harmed, including her quirky "I brace myself and locomotive goes squish" collision damage effect.  I should do that.

~me

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[Gwerny]

I'd like to see examples of powers with various extras & flaws with an explanation of why they suit the power, a lot are easy to understand but some are just confusing.

the one that comes to mind is the healing power from the main book, it has the touch capacity but it's got the flaw touch only as well. it doesn't seem to make the power more limited beyond what it already was.

i think there are a few self only flaws on power capacity self powers too.

 

[Daniel Kane]

A Quality has the Touch Capacity *because* it has Touch Only.  Normally it would have a Range, Mass, or Speed Capacity, but the Flaw reduces it to Touch.

~me

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[Daniel Kane]

Addendum: unless it's Defends, in which case the Extra Capacity Extra may expand its Self Capacity to Touch.

[Gwerny]

Thats what i mean it's confusing.

from the power capacities section you get.

The Power Capacities are Mass, Range, Speed, Touch, and Self.

A power with the Touch capacity affects things apart from your own body, but only if you can touch them.

And from the Flaws section under Touch only

You cannot take this Flaw on a Power Quality that already is limited to the "touch" or "self" Power Capacities

Yet on the healing miracle example you have

Capacities: Touch. Extras and flaws: Touch only -2.

And thats not the only one there is Insubstantiality too. 

and there is a lot of, Capacity Self with Self Only flaw, Custom hit locations, Extra tough, Immunity, Invisibility, Multiple actions, regeneration, and more.

It might be that these flaws are used to make the power cost what they think its worth rather than for the flaw itself, that makes sense but it's not said, hense the confusion.

[Daniel Kane]

The Capacity (or Capacities) shown with the power writeups is the final Capacity *after* taking the Flaw into account, not before.

Useful (Healing): Touch Only -2, Capacity: Touch is just a variant on:
Useful (Healing): Capacity: Range
Useful (Healing): Self Only -3, Capacity: Self

Without Extras or Flaws:

Range Qualities always have Mass or Range
Useful Qualities always have Mass, Range, or Speed
Defends Qualities always have Self

Does that help?

~Daniel

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[Unlikely Lass]

While Greg Stolze's rpgnet thread is fantastic, I think a really good
primer would involve explicit writeups of the 'standard cliche
heroes'.

That is, generate two or three writeups each for a Flying Brick, a
Mentalist/Psychic/Whatever, a Martial Artist, and an Energy Blaster,
or whatever.

Each writeup should be distinct. That is, do a Flying Brick using
Gourmet Miracles. Then do another one using only Cafeteria miracles.
Then do one that has strange baroque abilities (like the "Do something
awesome with my eyebeams" power that Greg gave Cyclops) but is still
obviously a Flying Brick.

Do that same kind of conceptual breakdown of each of the cliche
superhero types, and make the costing of the powers and abilities
explicit. You could probably even assemble it from characters that
have already been stated in your existing books.

I think this could really help people 'grok' how the character system
and powers work.

Dunno.

On Apr 30, 7:48 pm, Daniel Kane <daniel.m.k...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Addendum: unless it's Defends, in which case the Extra Capacity Extra may
> expand its Self Capacity to Touch.
>

> On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Daniel Kane <daniel.m.k...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > A Quality has the Touch Capacity *because* it has Touch Only.  Normally it
> > would have a Range, Mass, or Speed Capacity, but the Flaw reduces it to
> > Touch.
>
> > ~me
>

[Gwerny]

Ah! yes, and finding the section on page 110 that i'd obviously missed before explains everything, thank you.

[Daniel Enoch Tobin]

Was this primer ever made?

[Jesse Denos]

I'm not sure why, but the flexible nature of the rules is what's given me the problem. Players are either a little scared, or intimidated to dive in. This has been the case in Reign, Godlike and Wild Talents...so the rules strength is its biggest hurdle.

I generally have a player who grasps it and can get all up to speed, but the first session or two is a slog.

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[Simeon Cogswell]

Here you go

http://arcdream.com/home/2012/07/wild-talents-made-easy-the-simple-path-to-ultimate-power-part-1/