Three Case Studies on Joint Ventures with Landlords

[Jamie Russo]

LEXC (League of Extraordinary Coworking Spaces) is hosting a webinar on joint ventures with landlords starting at 3 pm CST today.

Please join  us!

Meeting ID: 27252294

Join Online Meeting: http://fuze.me/27252294

    Join by phone:

    Dial phone number and enter the Meeting ID when prompted

        - Toll: +1 201-479-4595

[Ramon Suarez]

I found out about it too late. Did you guys record it?

[Tabari Brannon]

I missed it as well, is there a recording?

[Jerome Chang]

Hi all.

The webinar is available on the event listing.

http://lexc.org/event/lexc-webinar-joint-ventures-wlandlords/?instance_id=91

(link is at the bottom of the page)

JEROME CHANG

WEST: Santa Monica
1450 2nd Street (@Broadway) | Santa Monica CA 90401 
ph: (310) 526-2255 

CENTRAL: Mid-Wilshire
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) | Los Angeles CA 90036 
ph: (323) 330-9505

EAST: Downtown
529 S. Broadway, Suite 4000 (@Pershing Square) | Los Angeles CA 90013 
ph: (213) 550-2235

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[Ramon Suarez]

Thanks Jerome :) 

Ramon Suarez
Serendipity Accelerator, Betacowork
Author: http://coworkinghandbook.com
email & hangouts: ra...@betacowork.com

Phone: +3227376769

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Twitter:http://twitter.com/ramonsuarez
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[Christian M. Macy]

Jaime,

We've been doing a pretty interesting venture here in Boulder which might fit really well with the conversation on joint ventures.

I realize this was a few days ago, but if you're still looking for info/examples I'd be glad to share what we're doing at The Riverside.

[Loren Tripp]

Thank you to everyone who participated in this webinar- it was a great introduction to the idea of joint-venturing with a landlord. It also shed some light on how the large spaces in NYC and Santa Monica may afford to run out of those gorgeous buildings.

I've been building my community for CoStudio Pasadena for a few years and for this cooperative art studio concept to work I'll need a lot of space. I have a historic building in mind with 15,000 sq ft of glorious warehouse space- the landlord is on board with my idea, the rent is good for this expensive city ($2sf/month), and he will even let me runway the build-out; but no matter how I finesse my P&L estimates, it's just too dang much rent. (By my cautious P&L estimate, rent would be 2/3rds of my revenue! One bad month and I'd be in big trouble.) It didn't occur to me to actually partner with him.

So here are my questions:

How does the 50/50 partnership actually work- would I really propose he give me the space rent-free in exchange for half my revenues?  How could I pitch this to him knowing it will take a year+ to get to capacity and for him to actually get any revenue?  Are there any examples of contracts with landlords that someone could share? Problems to look out for? (ie: My potential landlord prefers month-to-month- is that a big risk or a good escape route?)  Finally, I keep reading in this group about nice big spaces in suburbs and smaller cities with rents that run $2,000 to $5,000, which would cover a small office here; are there any coworking places that pay more like $20,000 and up per month and how does that formula work?

Many thanks for the webinar and the ideas!

~Loren

[Jerome Chang]

Hi Loren.

I see you’ll be @GCUC - great!

FYI, I don’t think any of the SM spaces have joint ventures - all are standard lease arrangements, including ours.

It would take more info to understand if the 50/50 would work. Off the cuff, if you’re operating expenses don’t total the same as the rent, then the 50/50 wouldn’t be fair. As you currently have it, the landlord should earn 2/3 of your upside profit. That said, regardless of the split, your landlord would indeed earn some rent, as long as you have incoming revenue - that rent would likely not be the full rent until a year.

I believe Regus forecasts 1-3 month to break-even on an operating basis.

Coworking spaces seem to forecast 6-12 months, based on anecdotal evidence.

12 months is conservative, but not sexy - find a way to be closer to 6 months.

As for rents, keep in mind that most other cities use annual rates, so your $2/sf/mo would be $24/year, to compare apples-to-apples with others.

15k sf is a large space, so $30k is just what the math yields.

SM spaces are much more, so yes, we all pay proportionally…and list proportional rates on our end. There is a reason that most metro cities on the East and Left Coasts charge about $500/mo per desk.

As for the contract, I would not trust any template. Any biz lawyer can draft this up - get one w/ lease experience. Keep it simple: the landlord provides the hardware (space), you provide the software (community).

JEROME CHANG

WEST: Santa Monica
1450 2nd Street (@Broadway) | Santa Monica CA 90401 
ph: (310) 526-2255 

CENTRAL: Mid-Wilshire
5405 Wilshire Blvd (2 blocks west of La Brea) | Los Angeles CA 90036 
ph: (323) 330-9505

EAST: Downtown
529 S. Broadway, Suite 4000 (@Pershing Square) | Los Angeles CA 90013 
ph: (213) 550-2235

[Loren Tripp]

Thank you Jerome, this is really helpful! 

I've run a few versions of a P&L with a 50/50, 30/70 and other scenarios that work (or don't) and I have enlisted a commercial agent and attorney to keep me tethered to reality. Now I have to put a pitch together and see what happens.  In the mean time, Cross Campus is opening a spectacular location here in a few weeks and I'm looking forward to them introducing coworking to Pasadena!

~Loren

[Jeannine]

Brace yourself for radicality. :-)

I have one space which is a sharing arrangement with a landlord (sorry, the words joint venture and partnership make me twitch, as I am a lawyer and those words have specific meanings to us, and this is not that) and one which is a shop-in-shop arrangement with an executive office/flexoffice.  I hope to be launching two more in the first quarter 2015.  One is with one of my coworkers who graduated to a larger space, the other is with another flexoffice.

The arrangement in both is that I handle the coworking, they make the space available and open the door,  I pay the costs from the income and then we split what is left.  The splitting varies, in one location it is half, in the other it is 80/20 (their favor).  Certain charges they get 100% of, they are the ones for which I don't do anything.  For the Executive office, if a coworker steps over to a permanent rental or virtual office, I get the first month's rent.

This requires a landlord who is already on site, not a landlord who is getting paid for an empty building.  An existing business with extra space is perfect.  It als requires a landlord with a gambling turn of mind (less money in the beginning, more at the backend).

Getting the model right and the sharing right has been....an adventure.  :-)  But at this moment I am feeling very good about its sustainabliity.  

I have a contract lying here, it is in Dutch.  i think i may have one lying around which I made up for a space in Italy that didn't go anywhere, if you want me to dig it up let me know.  (Shameless plug:  I am actively looking for partners in Europe and the UK. The Dutch love to do business overseas).  It is a long term contract but has a 30 day termination clause for any reason, because everybody is afraid of a new model and wants an out if it goes south.  And it's a principle thing with me, I am for no-fault divorce and no fault termination of contracts usually. :-)

Fire away.

Cheers,

Jeannine

[Tim Gummer]

I'm picking up on this very late jeannine - but if you still have any 'JV' CW  type contracts handy I'd be really interested.  Am potentially developing a space for an organisation with will want to limit it's exposure, anyone knows of any working links to the old webinar that would be great.

Thanks - tim 

[Jeannine van der Linden]

Drop me an email.  I can probably write you one up easier than translating it.  I think mine will not help you as 1) it's in Dutch and 2) it specifically says it is not a JV.  

Jeannine dot vdlinden at gmail dot com.  :-)