brief quote from Wright on the atonement

[George Demetrion]

Colleagues, after I posted that lengthy message, I also noticed the following passage from Wax's article on Wright, which provides a very apt summary of his position:

Perhaps the best understanding of Wright’s view of the atonement is found in his contribution to the New Dictionary of Theology. History and theology come together at the cross. After several pages of historical research regarding Jesus’ life and ministry, Wright states:

“[Jesus] would carry out Israel’s task: and, having pronounced Israel’s impending judgment in the form of the wrath of Rome which would turn out to be the wrath of God, he would go ahead of her and take that judgment on himself, drinking the cup of God’s wrath so that his people might not drink it. In his crucifixion, therefore, Jesus identified fully (if paradoxically) with the aspirations of his people, dying as ‘the king of the Jews’, the representative of the people of God, accomplishing for Israel (and hence the world) what neither the world nor Israel could accomplish for themselves.”

Again placing Jesus’ death in historical context and the overarching biblical narrative, Wright adds: “As the story of the exodus is the story of how God redeemed Israel, so the story of the cross is the story of how God redeemed the world through Israel in person, in Jesus, the Messiah.”

George

[WILLIAM RADER]

George and All,

First, congratulations, George, on the publication of your book  The Historical Jesus and the Christ of Faith.  And now thank you for calling our attention 

to the book by Wright on the atonement.  I've been working my way through it, mostly agreeing with his conclusions. I'm also working on Fleming Rutledge's book

 Crucifixion.  Your call to these crucial issues is valuable and appreciated. 

Gratefully,

Bill 

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[Herb Davis]

Dear Bill,  I am working thru Rutledge’s Crucifixion and working thru is a good word. Thanks for your notes on Thurs.  Sorry we didn’t follow them more closely.  I am probably the problem. Herb

[George Demetrion]

Thank you Bill,

Many years ago, in response to a pastor who insisted that Christ died for our sins, i said to him, "Do you know why Christ died, he was executed."  

From a faith-based perspective, both are true and need to be accounted for.  Wright has dome yeoman service in fleshing out some of the nearer term explanations of Jesus' ministerial focus within the context of Second Temple Judaism in relation to the crucifixion and the resurrection sightings, which he addresses in his two mighty tombs,  Jesus and the Victory of God and The Resurrection of the Son.

Perhaps there is a critical bridge between my view (which was obviously and intentionally reductionist) and that of my pastor's (whose view was perhaps unintentionally reductionist) through the passage I previously cited by Wright:

“[Jesus] would carry out Israel’s task: and, having pronounced Israel’s impending judgment in the form of the wrath of Rome which would turn out to be the wrath of God, he would go ahead of her and take that judgment on himself, drinking the cup of God’s wrath so that his people might not drink it. In his crucifixion, therefore, Jesus identified fully (if paradoxically) with the aspirations of his people, dying as ‘the king of the Jews’, the representative of the people of God, accomplishing for Israel (and hence the world) what neither the world nor Israel could accomplish for themselves.”

Assuming Wright is reasonably on the mark here, what Jesus of Nazareth did and what he thought he was doing may have been simply interpreted as an interesting, but unimportant first-century incident at the outpost of the Roman empire within one of the religious cults that had long since disappeared. Assuming Wright is accurate here, the more intriguing and existentially important matter is how we got from that first-century episode in ancient Judaism to the incarnate vision of the pre-existing Christ, the Second Person of the Trinity.

That story has been narrated primarily from the perspective from the history of Jesus of Nazareth to the Christ of Faith. Continuing research is further fleshing out that trajectory remains critical. What hasn't been so much narrated is the trajectory in the other direction. If one starts with the hermeneutical assumption that God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself (2 Cor 5:19) from before the foundation of time--if one accepts this as the foundational truth claim of the Christian faith and works backwards in search of its temporal roots in the life and ministry of Jesus of Nazareth within the context of Second Temple Judaism, the historical search may require another set of questions than those posed by Wright based on another set of hypothetical constructs than those posed by Wright. 

In the spirit of Wright, I find both directions (from history to faith and from faith to history) valid, one that can expand our appreciation of the incarnational significance of, as I would like to put it, the Christ of faith (as starting point) and the Jesus of history.

Perhaps it need not be said is that what I propose is well beyond any research project that I could conceivably carry out.

George

[Herb Davis]

Dear George,  How is your suggestion that we start at 2 Cor 5 and go back different than what Wright has done?  I thought that he was taking Second Temple Judaism as the pre history to Jesus’s death and resurrection to understand the incarnation, so that the incarnation was not rooted in the Christ of faith but in the Old Testament. I think your question of depending too much on history is valid but I think Wright is close on history. Help me here if you get this post.  Herb

 

From: George Demetrion

Sent: Monday, March 13, 2017 11:01 AM

To: Confessing Christ Open Forum

Subject: Re: brief quote from Wright on the atonement

 

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[George Demetrion]

Greetings Herb,

in fact, I did receive your message in my email.  Happy days are here again!

You raise an important point in inferring that my hermeneutical reliance on 2 Corinthians 5:19 (God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself) is more or less synonymous with Wright's depiction of Jesus in which, through living out his messianic calling, he was enacting what Paul describes.  On that, there are a few things to consider:

• On Wright's interpretation that's what Jesus of Nazareth viewed as the ultimate outcome of his path to Jerusalem in which his nearer term objective was to usher in the Jeremiah's new covenant as the true king of the Jews.  While different from other messianic claims within Second Temple Judaism, in itself, it is part of the micro-history of that era, and as such, can be completely explained within its historical context through the third person perspective of the modern historian 2000 years later.  Recall the brief quote that Wright offers, which we I recently highlighted, in which, I argue, there is nothing intrinsically transcendent about it, as it can be read as pure historical description, even as it is a critical part of the story of revelation that finds its apotheosis in the prologue of John:

“[Jesus] would carry out Israel’s task: and, having pronounced Israel’s impending judgment in the form of the wrath of Rome which would turn out to be the wrath of God, he would go ahead of her and take that judgment on himself, drinking the cup of God’s wrath so that his people might not drink it. In his crucifixion, therefore, Jesus identified fully (if paradoxically) with the aspirations of his people, dying as ‘the king of the Jews’, the representative of the people of God, accomplishing for Israel (and hence the world) what neither the world nor Israel could accomplish for themselves.”

• There are many descriptions about how the Jesus of history became viewed as the Christ of faith through the interpretation of the church in the struggle for meaning as Christianity spread during the first few centuries of the common era. Gabe traces this in his insightful analysis of Edward Schilibeeckx's, Jesus: An Experiment in  Christology.  This story of how the Jesus of history became the Christ of faith is a staple narrative of the Jesus Seminar, which clearly marks Borg's understanding. This trajectory of how the church increasingly clarified its understanding of Jesus Christ as the incarnation of God and the Second Person of the Trinity is an essential part of the story in understanding how God, himself became revealed in Christ as "the express image of his person" (Heb 1:3). Yet left at that level we are still dealing, in principle, with pure historical third person description and not revelation.

• My selection of 2 Corinthians 5:19 is to place the emphasis where Paul places it, on the revelation of Christ, in which the proclaimer (of the Kingdom of God) became the proclaimed.  I include an extended discussion of this in footnote # 33, pp. 33-40 of my book, to which I refer you. Keeping the entirety of the New Testament in mind, the Pauline passage allows full scope for all that Wright contends--that Jesus viewed himself as the Jewish messiah, who viewed the impact of hos actions as having ultimate worldwide implications (as pervasive in the description of the Servant in Second Isaiah) while having its immediate impact in bringing ancient Jewish history to its covenental fulfillment--while allowing full scope to the highest Christological claims within the NT as found in John 1:1-18 and 17, Colossians 1:15-20 and in the carious high priest depictions in Hebrews. When these texts are taken into consideration, the most exalted claims about Christ can be integrated with pre-resurrection depictions in the Synoptics that provide an incarnational vision of Christ that has become universal in scope both through the impetus of the church through the centuries, as well as through the indelible work of revelation, itself. 

• The 2 Cor 5:19 passage is meant to give scope to both of these dimensions, in which history and revelation play their roles. This is not radically dissimilar to Wright, but I place more emphasis on the starting point of revelation, where he places considerably more emphasis on history than do I.  I suggest that a fourth quest for the historical Jesus could start here, which would allow historians, theologians, and biblical scholars to take a more fluid approach on the relationship between history and faith in deepening our knowledge of the life of Jesus of Nazareth and the vision of the incarnate Christ within the context of its Trinitarian enfolding.  Such is obviously ongoing work which builds a great deal on what has already been accomplished.
  

George

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[Andy Lang]

Dear friends,

Skye Fackre Gibson is sharing the news that on July 31, Dot and Gabe will be moving from Cape Cod to Oregon to live with family. As you know, Dot has been living for several years with Parkinson's Disease. For many of us attending the Craigville Colloquy this year, this may be our last opportunity to see them. Skye's message is below. 

If you wish to contact Gabe, please write to Skye: Gabe is no longer able to check his email account. 

 

Andy Lang
Cleveland, OH
216-926-6262
lang...@sbcglobal.net
http://facebook.com/andrew.lang

On Saturday, April 15, 2017 8:58 AM, skye gibson <skyeg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello, all,

I posted the note below on Dad's Facebook page this morning. He and mom will be moving to Oregon to live with Gabrielle and Bonnie on July 31st.  Thank you for your prayers and hope.

Please share the news with any and all you think might be interested.  I do not have a comprehensive contact list for everyone. Feel free to email me any time.

Skye

Hello, friends, colleagues, and contacts of my father, Gabe Fackre. Gabe and Dorothy will no longer be living at their home on Cape Cod after July 31st. They will be moving together, God-willing, to live in Oregon with their daughters on the west coast.

Please hold them in your prayers as they anticipate the journey and hold steadfast in the hope and faith of next things.

Please write to them until July 31st at P.O. Box 428, West Hyannisport, MA 02672.

Grace and peace,

Skye Fackre Gibson

[Andy Lang]

As far as I know, Dot and Gabe are leaving tomorrow (Monday) as scheduled for their four-day trip by train to Oregon, where they will move in with daughter Gabrielle and her husband, Tom, both UCC ministers. Please keep them in your prayers during this difficult journey. Dot will be accommodated in a car designed for people with disabilities. 

 

Andy Lang
Cleveland, OH
216-926-6262
lang...@sbcglobal.net
http://facebook.com/andrew.lang

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