Alternate editor to VI
Waldron
: I am looking out for a "user friendly" editor which would replace VI on
: our SUN machine running Solaris 2.
: If anyone knows of such an editor please send mail to me at the address below.
: Thanking you in advance for your assistance.
: =========================================================================
: G E O R G E B R O W N - T H E C I T Y C O L L E G E
: =========================================================================
: Rashid Bawa \ / George Brown College
: System Administrator || 146 Kendal Ave.
: || Toronto, Ontario
: Phone: (416) 944-4591 || Canada
: E-Mail: rb...@gbrownc.on.ca || M5R 1M3
: --------------------------------------------------------------------------
:
You might want to try pico. It is a nice general editor. It's available
on wuarchive and from University of Washington (the authors)
Good Luck:
--
Bob Waldron
USBM, Branch of Information Svcs
wald...@miner.usbm.gov
frank segner
:
: our SUN machine running Solaris 2.
:
: If anyone knows of such an editor please send mail to me at the address below.
:
: Thanking you in advance for your assistance.
:
with the mail agent 'pine' (stands for 'pine is not elm' or so) comes an editor
named pico.
i think that's what you are looking for.
it's even usable by professors ;) (so, 100 % idiot proofed)
the editor runs 'stand-alone' (without mail agent) and is distributed with pine
(i think (not 100% shure)) by the university of washington.
i prefer vi or emacs, but i'm not no novice ;-)
for 'editor-beginners' i certainly would recommend pico...
so long,
frank
--
"We have reason to believe that man first walked upright |fr...@martha.utk.edu
to free his hands for masturbation." -Lily Tomlin- |fr...@ifan.knox.tn.us
Rashid Bawa
I am looking out for a "user friendly" editor which would replace VI on
our SUN machine running Solaris 2.
If anyone knows of such an editor please send mail to me at the address below.
Thanking you in advance for your assistance.
=========================================================================
Scott G. Hall
Rashid Bawa <rb...@gbc.gbrownc.on.ca> wrote:
>I am looking out for a "user friendly" editor which would replace VI on
>our SUN machine running Solaris 2.
I have a cdrom of UUNET's comp.unix.sources archive, and it contains the
following listings:
CRISP.TAR
A clone of the BRIEF editor which runs under UNIX and VMS.
Version 1.9.
Contributor: <f...@marlow.uucp>
EAMCSVTK.TAR
Key bindings for VT100-style keyboards. Requires UNIPRESS (Gosling)
EMACS Version 2.
Contributor: Bill McKeeman <mcke...@wanginst.uucp>
JOVE.TAR
The JOVE (Jonathan's Own Version of EMACS) text editor, version 4.9.
This is an EMACS editor without the Lisp interpreter. It is very
close to ITS and TOPS-20 EMACS. It runs on PDP-11's under V7 and
2.xBSD; almost anything under 4.xBSD, System V, and MS-DOS. There
is also code to make it run on a Macintosh with menus and the whole
deal. This version is *newer* than the one on the 4.3BSD distribution.
Contributor: Jonathan Payne <jpa...@cs.rochester.edu>
RSED.TAR
A simple text editor originally used for editing mail messages.
Puts the whole file into an in-core linked list; no temp files.
Contributor: Doug Davis <do...@letni.uucp>
SCAME.TAR
Yet another EMACS clone; this one is supposed to look like TOPS-20
EMACS and AMIS on TOPS-10 and VMS.
Contributor: Leif Samuelsson <le...@erix.uucp>
SE.TAR
The Georgia Tech "se" screen editor. Works on 4.xBSD and System V;
understands window size changes in 4.3BSD and the UNIX-PC.
Contributor: Arnold D. Robbins <arn...@emoryu1.uucp>
TECO.TAR
An implementation of TECO for Berkeley UNIX. Note that the TECO
here is basically like DEC Standard TECO. Does not use termcap
or curses.
Contributor Matt Fichtenbaum <m...@genrad.uucp>
TVX.TAR
A full screen editor from the U. of New Mexico. Portable to 4.xBSD,
PC-DOS, MS-DOS, CP/M-80, and the Atari ST.
Contributor: Bruce Wampler <wam...@unmvax.uucp>
UEMACS3B.TAR
Micro Emacs version 3.8b. An EMACS editor for microcomputers.
Contributor: Daniel Lawrence <lawr...@duncan.uucp>
You have already been told about PICO, and of course there's always GNU
EMACS.
--
- sgh Klingon Mantra: It is a good day to die!
Scott G. Hall
AT&T Bell Labs, Columbus, OH, USA
Scott Hagie
: I am looking out for a "user friendly" editor which would replace VI on
Sigh.
A) Cut down on the sig, four lines is more than enough for anything.
B) Cut down on the number of cross-posts. 7 is just plain ridiculous.
C) While several people have suggested Pico, it is a bit limited in it's
features. A very good, but very underrated editor is Joe. It uses mostly
Wordstar commands, is very configurable, and is very easy to use.
Scott
--
Scott Hagie - ha...@netcom.com - Sierra Madre, Ca.
Open mouth, Insert foot, post Internationally.
Simon Mark Arthur
editor is probably ez, from the Andrew package. I know it runs under Linux,
but I'm not sure if it works on Suns.
--
Very Truly Yours,
SIMON
Peter da Silva
Boy, kids today just don't know what a really hostile editor is like!
--
Peter da Silva `-_-'
Network Management Technology Incorporated 'U`
1601 Industrial Blvd. Sugar Land, TX 77478 USA
+1 713 274 5180 "Hast Du heute schon Deinen Wolf umarmt?"
Jerry Leslie
: I am looking out for a "user friendly" editor which would replace VI on
: our SUN machine running Solaris 2.
: If anyone knows of such an editor please send mail to me at the address below.
: Thanking you in advance for your assistance.
{Per the author's request, the following was e-mailed}
'ed' is a public domain editor patterned after DEC VMS' EDT editor,
but with many extensions, such as box-mode cut-and-paste, editing of
binary files, remote editing via ftp. It also includes keystroke-
level journaling, so a system crash/power outage doesn't lose hours
of editing.
'ed' runs on: MS-DOS, OS/2, Windows-NT, VMS VAX, VMS AXP. It runs on
every Unix the co-author could get access to: AIX, HP-UX, OSF/1, NeXT,
BSD/386, Linux, Ultrix, SunOS.
'ed' can be imbedded in elm and tin, where it's being used to write
this post. 'ed' includes online help, for those who need some reminders.
'ed' should not be confused with the ed line-mode editor on some dialects
of Unix. It can be installed with any name desired; e.g., edt, dwim
A copy of the email announcement follows.
--Gerald (Jerry) R. Leslie
Staff Engineer
Dynamic Matrix Control Corporation (my opinions are my own)
P.O. Box 721648 9896 Bissonnet
Houston, Texas 77272 Houston, Texas, 77036
713/272-5065 713/272-5200 (fax)
gle...@isvsrv.enet.dec.com
jle...@dmccorp.com
=============================================================================
"This note is being sent to you since you have stated interest in ED or are a
current user. If you would like to be removed from this list or have someone
added, let me know.
V1.5.7 of ED fixes many bugs and adds a few enhancements requested by you,
the user group, of ED. The primary FTP site remains riceng.rice.edu,
username rhrsoft, password rhrsoft. The DOS binary distribution and the
source distribution (which builds everywhere) as also been installed on
Simtel mirrors (Oak.Oakland.edu for example) in ZIP format as
pub/msdos/editor/edrhr15*.zip for those of you needing anonymous FTP or a
well known site. Below is the announcement from the Simtel update.
ED v1.5.7 is an editor with a VMS/EDT like user interface, but provides
significantly enhanced features. Multiple windows allow you to display
many files on the screen simultaneously. Additional enhancements
include a file manager interface, ability to save key definitions,
editing by wildcards, an imbedded calculator, automatic program
identation, parenthesis matching, box/column editing features,
insert/overstrike modes, and sorting functions. ED has no file size
limits and can edit binary files also. The source distribution will
build on virtually any platform, which allows you to have the same
editor on all systems. ED can be used immediately without training by
EDT users, and they can use the enhanced features at their own pace.
For systems with a supported TCP/IP package, ED can be used as a file
manager and editor across the network to remote nodes. There is also
a simple, fast imbedded news reader included with TCP/IP support."
l...@light-house.uucp
: I am looking out for a "user friendly" editor which would replace VI on
: our SUN machine running Solaris 2.
: If anyone knows of such an editor please send mail to me at the address below.
: Thanking you in advance for your assistance.
I recommend "joe". Fast, uses adavanced features such as virtual memory,
folding windows, and comes with online help screens. It also runs on DOS,
if that's what you need.
It was written by Joseph Hallen, and I believe it is available at
ftp.netcom.com:/pub/jhallen/joe-*
: =========================================================================
: G E O R G E B R O W N - T H E C I T Y C O L L E G E
: =========================================================================
: Rashid Bawa \ / George Brown College
: System Administrator || 146 Kendal Ave.
: || Toronto, Ontario
: Phone: (416) 944-4591 || Canada
: E-Mail: rb...@gbrownc.on.ca || M5R 1M3
: --------------------------------------------------------------------------
:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keyboard error: keyboard not detected. Press F1 to continue
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Woody Jin
>In article <3191cn$n...@sand.cis.ufl.edu>,
>Simon Mark Arthur <si...@reef.cis.ufl.edu> wrote:
>> Just about any editor is more friendly than vi.
>
>Boy, kids today just don't know what a really hostile editor is like!
How true !
Even my 6 yr old kid is using vi. I just don't understand
when people are saying vi is not user-friendly.
Woody
Seth Arnold
: In article <id.DRN...@nmti.com>, Peter da Silva <pe...@nmti.com> wrote:
: >In article <3191cn$n...@sand.cis.ufl.edu>,
: Even my 6 yr old kid is using vi. I just don't understand
: when people are saying vi is not user-friendly.
Hey, this might not be the right place, but... Is there a port of vi to
DOS? I like it enough to want it for my own computer... ;-)
--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| hid...@agora.rdrop.com | "If you can read this |
| Seth Arnold | then you are literate." -Britt Klein |
|________________________|______________________________________________|
Charles Stephens
: I am looking out for a "user friendly" editor which would replace VI on
: our SUN machine running Solaris 2.
: If anyone knows of such an editor please send mail to me at the
: address below.
: Thanking you in advance for your assistance.
ATTENTION!!! READ BEFORE READING!!!
The following is satire. Satire is defined by my highly illegal
electronic copy of Webster's New World Dictionary (c) 1967? :
Cross references:
1. wit
sat.ire or sa.tir.i.cal \'sa-.ti-(*)r\ \s*-'tir-ik\ \-i-k*l\ \-i-k(*-)le-\
n [MF, fr. L satura, satira, fr. (lanx) satura full plate], medley, fr.
fem. of satur sated; akin to L satis enough - more at SAD 1: a literary
work holding up human vices and follies to ridicule or scorn 2: trenchant
wit, irony, or sarcasm used to expose and discredit vice or folly -
sa.tir.i.c aj
Now, for something completely different...
People, people, people. I should smite thee for blasphemy against The
One True Editor (sm). Emacs is the end all and be all of editors,
word processors, mail user agents, news readers, archie clients, file
managers, calendars, etc, etc, etc. It is so easy to use, even a
child can use it (a child on Jupiter that is).
Heck, I even have Emacs groom my pets, make my coffee and render
pictures of pretty blondes.
Emacs can even emulate vi! What else do you want?
M-x praise-be-to-emacs
[Some restrictions apply. Must have a UNIX operating system or 100%
compatable running at 100MHz and 256MB of physical memory with 1.2GB
of virtual memory. Parallel processors are optional. Milage may
vary. If rash persists after 7 days, discontinue use. For external
use only. If ingested, consult a physican.]
cfs
--
/-------------------\ Charles Stephens, c...@mathcs.emory.edu
| HELLO, my name is | 72322...@compuserve.com
|-------------------| This space has been intentionally left blank.
| | Do not remove under penalty of law.
| Charles Stephens | Please place your trays in the upright position.
| | **PGP2.3 Public key is available by fingering me at**
\-------------------/ **c...@mathcs.emory.edu or email me your public key.**
Simon Mark Arthur
|> In article <3191cn$n...@sand.cis.ufl.edu>,
|> Simon Mark Arthur <si...@reef.cis.ufl.edu> wrote:
|> > Just about any editor is more friendly than vi.
|> Boy, kids today just don't know what a really hostile editor is like!
Tell us about the old days, Uncle Peter.
Simon Mark Arthur
wj...@moocow.cs.uh.edu (Woody Jin) writes:
|> How true !
|> Even my 6 yr old kid is using vi. I just don't understand
|> when people are saying vi is not user-friendly.
|> Woody
Getting a 60-year-old to learn it on her own would be more impressive.
Here's why its hard to learn:
4. Screen is presented in an unusual way. What are all those tilde's doing
there? Also, the command line shares space with the editing window.
3. No online help or reference. The man page (at least on SunOS, the only page
I have access to) is totally inadequate and is written in the style of the man
page. No help to beginners at all.
2. No way to specify commands by name (this goes with #0). Emacs and work-alikes
are generally the only ones that have this, and I find that I miss it in WP
Windows and such where I have to hunt through menus in order to get the function
I want. Their hypertext help is usually pretty good, as I can search for the
function by name.
Long live the command line!
1. User input does not behave in the expected way. Simply typing in vi does not
cause characters on the screen. ^C is trapped by vi, so that doesn't get you out,
either. ^Z works, fortunately.
0. It does nothing to reduce the (human) memory load required to use it. There
are no prompts, all commands must be memorized. Of course, the only one I've
bothered to memorize is ":q".
I cannot comment on its functionality, or guru-friendliness, but I doubt it
surpasses that of other editors, such as MS-DOS Edit or Emacs, both of which
are easier to learn.
Followups limited to comp.unix.user-friendly.
Petteri Jäntti
editor. There's nothing wrong with vi. It is fun, it is less filling and
starts easily an editor flame war.
--
Petteri Jantti \ GEEK CODE 2.1: GCM/CS/E d- H+ p2+ au+ a- w+ v
Hirsipadontie 3 E 25 \ C++(++++) US/UU++++$ P+>+++ L- 3 E---(E) N+++>N+
FIN-00640 Helsinki Finland \ K+ W--- M-- V-- -po+ Y+ t+ !5 j- R- G? tv+@
email: p...@ichaos.nullnet.fi \ b+>++ !D B? e* u+ h+(*)>h++ f r+ n---- y++
Matthew B Cravit
: I am looking out for a "user friendly" editor which would replace VI on
: our SUN machine running Solaris 2.
: If anyone knows of such an editor please send mail to me at the address below.
Another editor which is sorta limited in features, but usable by about
anyone with more than 14 brain cells is called "ce". It is used here
at MSU on all the student mail accounts, and most people can figure it
out, so it must be really easy. It also produces a quite small
executable. It is available somewhere on ftp.msu.edu. There is not a
lot there, so you should be able to find it fairly easily.
/Matthew
--
Matthew Cravit, N9VWG | A child of five could solve
Michigan State University | this problem...quick, fetch
E-Mail: crav...@cps.msu.edu | me a child of five!
PGP 2.3 public key available from http://web.cps.msu.edu/~cravitma
Tony Porczyk
>Hey, this might not be the right place, but... Is there a port of vi to
>DOS? I like it enough to want it for my own computer... ;-)
Absolutely. The name of it Elvis, and it is available on most large
ftp sites. I use it all the time, it is very close to the "real vi".
Tony
----------------------------------------------------------------
Technology Instructor - Wave Technologies International
tpor...@netcom.com - 1-800-828-2050
----------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick J. Horgan
to use textedit on the Suns. I'm a vi bigot myself, but my vi class is about
a half day class, and I don't fit it into my other classes. Right now
I'm teaching a "System Programming Using C++," class and have a couple of
people using textedit.
Patrick
--
These opinions are mine, and not Amdahl's (except by coincidence;).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
/ | | (\ \
| Patrick J. Horgan | Amdahl Corporation | \\ Have |
| pj...@eng.amdahl.com | 1250 East Arques Avenue | \\ _ Sword |
| Phone : (408)992-2779 | P.O. Box 3470 M/S 201 | \\/ Will |
| FAX : (408)773-0833 | Sunnyvale, CA 94088-3470 | _/\\ Travel |
\ | | \) /
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jerry Leslie
: In article <31gic6$k...@masala.cc.uh.edu>,
Here's a case study on why people chose 'vi' ;-)
--Gerald (Jerry) R. Leslie
Staff Engineer
Dynamic Matrix Control Corporation (my opinions are my own)
P.O. Box 721648 9896 Bissonnet
Houston, Texas 77272 Houston, Texas, 77036
713/272-5065 713/272-5200 (fax)
gle...@isvsrv.enet.dec.com
jle...@dmccorp.com
============================================================================
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.admin
From: "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <dmi...@parsy.spb.su>
Subject: More & more people choose `vi'
X-Return-Path: gsp!parsy!dmitry
Organization: unknown
Distribution: su
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 1994 16:53:25 GMT
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9406011734.A17295-0100000@parsy>
Sender: news-s...@arcom.rcom.spb.su
Lines: 61
MORE AND MORE PEOPLE CHOOSE `VI'. CASE OF STUDY
This article is just a part of a fundamental opus devoted to investi-
gation of UNIX. Scientists of the future will read UNIX's manual pages
with the same feel of a light perplexity that comes to us when we turn
the pages of `Witch Hammer' (some people feel it right now). This work
should help them in their heavy task.
Let us consider a very obscure question - why people like `vi' and
why it looks like `vi'. Certainly, there must be lots of convincing rea-
sons in deleting a character by pressing three keys `ESC', `x', `i' in-
stead of single `del'. We should immediately reject opinions like `peo-
ple search for obstacles to overwhelm them' as unscientific ones. Con-
sidering this issue more thoroughly we can find at least four approaches
to it.
(o) Astronomical point of view. As we know most of programmers work
putting their legs on the system block. (If you have a `tower'
just move it from your table to the floor, you'll feel the
difference!). To achieve maximal comfort legs should be arranged
along the magnetic lines. Well, let us take a look on the key-
board laying over your mmmm... stomach. In this position a line
connecting keys `x' and `ESC' points right to the North star. At
the same time `x' - `i' axis indicates the equinoctial point.
(o) Magical approach. After active usage of described above `ESC',
`x', `i' key sequence everybody comes to the conclusion that
SOMETHING'S WRONG and enters another sequence - `ESC', `:', `q',
`!'. As we know `ESC' abbreviates the word `escutcheon'. If we
consider keys `x', `i', `:', `q' and `!' we can notice that they
organize a magic pentagram. It is clear that multiple drawing
the pentagram protects us from the cruel daemons hidding in the
CPU.
(o) Medical reasons. Clinical researches show that using `vi' keeps
tonus of your fingers at the level of a violonist, that prevents
a gout. However, you should be careful working at home. Be shure
that the door to the chield room is tightly closed unless you
want to hear from your son the sentences you usually address to
`vi'.
(o) Psycho-analysis. Sexual instinct...
******
(for specialists only)
In conclusion I would like to state that we are currently at the very
beginning of understanding deep laws ruling over the world. Some impor-
tant questions remain unexplored. For example, why are we using `ESC',
`d', `d', `i' to delete a line rather than handy `ESC', `f', `d', `h',
`s', `t', `h', `n', `v', `b', `i'?
Never mind, `vi' should overcome some day!
[__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__]
[][__][ Dmitry A.Kazakov ][__][__][__ What is mind? - No matter. ][__][]
[__][__ Parsytec Petersburg [__][_ What is matter? - Never mind. __][__]
[][__][ dmi...@parsy.spb.su _][__][__][__][ -- Bertrand Russell _][__][]
[__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__]
John Martinez
% pe...@nmti.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
% |> In article <3191cn$n...@sand.cis.ufl.edu>,
% |> Simon Mark Arthur <si...@reef.cis.ufl.edu> wrote:
% |> > Just about any editor is more friendly than vi.
% |> Boy, kids today just don't know what a really hostile editor is like!
%
% Tell us about the old days, Uncle Peter.
%
% --
% Very Truly Yours,
% SIMON
Oh come now. I'm a younger guy, and I ONLY use vi. I hate emacs. Sure it can
do a lot of things, but it is soooooo heavy!
john@vi_and_staying_that_way
--
John Martinez * mart...@bats.com * UNIX Consultant, BATS, Inc. San Jose, CA
On Mosaic http://www.rahul.net/martinez
require 'standard_disclaimer.pl';
Richard Mauri
about the upgrade from EA1 hanging immediately. The proposed solution,
deleting some files under /var/pkg, broke that logjam and the upgrade
proceeds up to the point where it was checking for sufficient disk space.
The console window says I have insufficient disk space and prints out
a disk slice allocation table of the current and minimum sizes.
All partitions are way over the minimum suggested except for /
which has current == minimum (14333kb for full install)
I guess / needs more than the minimum. I guess that when they recommend
a min size that's not considering that an upgrade requires more.
After this table is displayed an error msg "Can't perform realloc"
appears and the upgrade window exits.
SO, UPGRADE ATTEPT #2 FAILS.
How much disk space do I need to perform the upgrade?
The upgrade should not fail with a memory allocation error, because
I am using a perfectly reasonable/usable configuration.
HELP SUNSOFT!
(I guess this is what to expect from Beta releases...)
Rich
Julii Brainard#
In article <31ksq3$n...@uuneo.neosoft.com> jle...@dmccorp.com (Jerry Leslie) writes:
>Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.admin
>From: "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <dmi...@parsy.spb.su>
>Subject: More & more people choose `vi'
>....
> Let us consider a very obscure question - why people like `vi' and
>why it looks like `vi'. Certainly, there must be lots of convincing rea-
>sons in deleting a character by pressing three keys `ESC', `x', `i' in-
>stead of single `del'. We should immediately reject opinions like `peo-
And why do people choose to type ctrl-u-3-5-ctrl-n instead of esc-3-5-j ?
or ctrl-x ctrl-f filename for esc-:-r-filename ? Which causes *you* to
jump around the keyboard more?
> (o) Astronomical point of view. As we know most of programmers ...
> ...Well, let us take a look on the key-
> board laying over your mmmm... stomach. In this position a line
> connecting keys `x' and `ESC' points right to the North star. At
> the same time `x' - `i' axis indicates the equinoctial point.
Brownie points awarded in emacs heaven to the each person able to figure
out without help which was the Meta key on *their* keyboard
> (o) Magical approach. After active usage of described above `ESC',
> `x', `i' key sequence everybody comes to the conclusion that
> SOMETHING'S WRONG and enters another sequence - `ESC', `:', `q',
Only if they're blind and can't see the changes on the screen.
> (o) Medical reasons. Clinical researches show that using `vi' keeps
> tonus of your fingers at the level of a violonist, that prevents
> a gout. However, you should be careful working at home. Be shure
> that the door to the chield room is tightly closed unless you
> want to hear from your son the sentences you usually address to
> `vi'.
Not like all those ctrl and meta prefixed commands didn't require
piano-trained fingers.
>tant questions remain unexplored. For example, why are we using `ESC',
>`d', `d', `i' to delete a line rather than handy `ESC', `f', `d', `h',
>`s', `t', `h', `n', `v', `b', `i'?
As if Meta-0 Ctrl-k were somehow more intutitive.
> (o) Psycho-analysis. Sexual instinct...
Isn't that what drives everything?
:)
--
---- Julii Brainard, Environmental Sciences, University of East Anglia
Norwich NR4 7TJ, UK. phone +44-603-593127. email: j.bra...@uea.ac.uk ---
Dan Mercer
[ DELETED MATERIAL ]
Gee, I always use delete:
:map
^? ^? ^[lxi
To map the delete key to do a forward delete (from ~/.exrc):
map! lxi
map x
entered as
map <CTRL-V><DEL> x
map! <CTRL-V><DEL> <CTRL-V><ESC>lxi
Must be why I like vi: so configurable
: [__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__]
: [][__][ Dmitry A.Kazakov ][__][__][__ What is mind? - No matter. ][__][]
: [__][__ Parsytec Petersburg [__][_ What is matter? - Never mind. __][__]
: [][__][ dmi...@parsy.spb.su _][__][__][__][ -- Bertrand Russell _][__][]
: [__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__][__]
--
Dan Mercer Applications + Plus
Reply To: dame...@mmm.com "The Mad Pedant"
======================================================================
All opinions expressed are my own and do not reflect the opinions of
my employer or my employer's clients, in particular 3M Company.
All advice or software offered or presented is provided As Is with no
warranty either expressed or implied. Follow at your own risk.
Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear.
Dr. Charles E. Campbell Jr.
>Yes there is a vi version for DOS. I have it. I got it from my brother and I am
>not sure where he bought it from.
>
>
>Srikanth
For those who want vi, instead of pushing meta sequences around...
You might want to check out ViM 2.0, available on
ftp.cdrom.com : pub/aminet/util/edit =as= vim-2.0-src.lha
Its really a vi superset; has unlimited undo, for example -- uses ctrl-R to
undo the undos.
It compiles on Unix, AmigaDos, and MiSeryDos!
Unix : You need to compile it with C.
AmigaDos: You need to compile it with Lattice or Manx C.
MSDOS : You need to compile it with Turbo C.
--
Charles E Campbell, Jr, PhD _ __ __
Guidance and Controls Branch (712) / /_/\_\_/ /
Goddard Space Flight Center /_/ \/_//_/
c...@gryphon.gsfc.nasa.gov `-( .....
A.K.Srikanth
not sure where he bought it from.
Srikanth
---
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#include "std/disclaimer.h"
Ayikudy K. Srikanth Software Engineer Wellfleet Communications Inc.
srik...@wellfleet.com 2,Federal Street
Ph: (508) 436-8226 Fax : (508) 670-8760 Billerica, MA 01821
The Higher Power
: In article <31gic6$k...@masala.cc.uh.edu>,
: Woody Jin <wj...@moocow.cs.uh.edu> wrote:
: >In article <id.DRN...@nmti.com>, Peter da Silva <pe...@nmti.com> wrote:
: >>In article <3191cn$n...@sand.cis.ufl.edu>,
: >>Simon Mark Arthur <si...@reef.cis.ufl.edu> wrote:
: >>> Just about any editor is more friendly than vi.
: >>
: >>Boy, kids today just don't know what a really hostile editor is like!
: >
: >How true !
: >Even my 6 yr old kid is using vi. I just don't understand
: >when people are saying vi is not user-friendly.
: >
: Then again, most of kids today probably wouldn't survive non-fullscreen
: editor. There's nothing wrong with vi. It is fun, it is less filling and
: starts easily an editor flame war.
Editors more hostile than VI? Of course, there are/used to be plenty of
them. But, mostly, that's all in the past now, with of course the
exception of VI which unfortunately still exists. I'm sorry, perhaps I
should be more direct: VI ABSOLUTELY SUX!
--
Slaytz
-Christian
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
\ "Television, the idiot tube, helps to raise our children as /
/ fools. Watch the news, see what they want you to see, our \
\ awareness is limited by network VP's. Moronic sit-coms and /
/ one-sided news alter your feelings, gives you conformist /
\ views." - Nuclear Assault: Survive \
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
t h r e n o d y @ a s t r o . o c i s . t e m p l e . e d u
WHY?
Robert Payne
: Hey, this might not be the right place, but... Is there a port of vi to
: DOS? I like it enough to want it for my own computer... ;-)
Actually there are several. There is a PD version called Stevie
and then there is the version supplied with the MKS toolkit, to
name a couple.
I'd recommend getting the MKS toolkit since then ya get lottsa
other UNIX goodies.
--
Robert Payne
Ian McCloghrie
>hid...@agora.rdrop.com (Seth Arnold) writes:
>>Hey, this might not be the right place, but... Is there a port of vi to
>>DOS? I like it enough to want it for my own computer... ;-)
>Absolutely. The name of it Elvis, and it is available on most large
>ftp sites. I use it all the time, it is very close to the "real vi".
The only problem with elvis, I find is that it "wraps wrong". That
is, lines which are > 80 chars in length are wrapped horizontally, off
the edge of the screen, instead of vertically, onto the next line, the
way "real" vi does it.
nvi, the 4.4BSD vi (which is, I believe, derived from the elvis code),
fixes this, and it's what I use most places that don't have a "real"
vi with them.
--
____
\bi/ Ian McCloghrie | FLUG: FurryMUCK Linux User's Group
\/ email: i...@ucsd.edu | Card Carrying Member, UCSD Secret Islandia Club
GCS (!)d-(--) p c++ l++(+++) u+ e- m+ s+/+ n+(-) h- f+ !g w+ t+ r y*
The above represents my personal opinions and not necessarily those
of my employer, Qualcomm Inc.
Yuliang Ma
>Hey, this might not be the right place, but... Is there a port of vi to
>DOS? I like it enough to want it for my own computer... ;-)
There is a good one called ELVIS, which can be found in many places.
There is also another one called VILE, which can be found in
ftp.cayman.com in /pub directory. This one, like EMACS, can edit a
file with lines longer than 1000 characters.
--
Yuliang (Frank) Ma E-Mail: m...@cshl.org
Peter da Silva
Jerry Leslie <jle...@dmccorp.com> wrote:
> Certainly, there must be lots of convincing rea-
> sons in deleting a character by pressing three keys `ESC', `x', `i' in-
> stead of single `del'.
Gee, what *am* I doing wrong? I just press "backspace".
Peter da Silva
everything will become perfectly clear.
The key?
There is no such thing as "insert mode" in VI.
Oh, all the documents describe this mysterious mode, but it's not there. Rather
than an insert mode, there is an insert command.
An insert command? Like in TECO?
Exactly. VI is pretty much a full screen version of TECO that provides fast
feedback by giving up the ability to edit commands. It even uses the same
command for insertion: "i<text><ESC>"!
I don't get it. It seems like such a subtle distinction.
It is, but it's an important one. It's got all SORTS of ramifications. It's
why you can't backup before the beginning of an insert. It's why you can't
move the cursor in an insertion (yes, it looks like you can, but it's actually
implemented by ending the insert command, moving, and starting a new one. It's
why backspace works funny (it looks nondestructive, but isn't). It's why you
can hit "." to repeat an insertion. It's why UNDO works the way it does.
That's weird.
It's different. I happen to like it this way, myself, but I can see why it
bothers people. Especially when they think they're in some magical insert
mode that doesn't really exist. Just embrace this paradigm shift and you'll
be a lot happier with VI.
14033-R.SCHREIBMAIER(MT5655)1223MT
> In article <31ksq3$n...@uuneo.neosoft.com>,
> Jerry Leslie <jle...@dmccorp.com> wrote:
>> Certainly, there must be lots of convincing rea-
>> sons in deleting a character by pressing three keys `ESC', `x', `i' in-
>> stead of single `del'.
>
> Gee, what *am* I doing wrong? I just press "backspace".
On my system, you just press 'x' to delete a character. What's this
'ESC', 'x', 'i'?
--
----------------------------------------------------
Bob Schreibmaier K2PH | UUCP: ...!att!mtdcr!bob
AT&T Bell Laboratories | Internet: b...@mtdcr.att.com
Middletown, N.J. 07748 | ICBM: 40o21'N, 74o8'W
Thomas Wolf
: From article <id.QYR...@nmti.com>, by pe...@nmti.com (Peter da Silva):
: > In article <31ksq3$n...@uuneo.neosoft.com>,
: > Jerry Leslie <jle...@dmccorp.com> wrote:
: >> Certainly, there must be lots of convincing rea-
: >> sons in deleting a character by pressing three keys `ESC', `x', `i' in-
: >> stead of single `del'.
: >
: > Gee, what *am* I doing wrong? I just press "backspace".
: On my system, you just press 'x' to delete a character. What's this
: 'ESC', 'x', 'i'?
I think this guy was desparate to come up with "vi'isms". IMHO an editor is
like a good pair of jeans - they may not fit perfectly initially, but they
eventually become the most comfortable thing in your wardrobe - and everyone
likes THEIR pair of jeans.
First semester at school, I was forced to use a line editor. In the second
semester, I thought I had seen the light - and it was Emacs (some non-GNU
version of it that is). The semester thereafter, I had to work on a machine
that didn't have Emacs (I didn't carry Emacs source around) - but it had vi.
Thereafter, I stuck with vi - since it was full-screen AND it was available on
all the UNIX boxes I worked on thereafter. Since then, I've tried a couple
times to go back to Emacs, but have found the attempts hopeless. My pinkey,
it seems, is no longer flexible enough to constantly reach for that CTRL
key and my mind is no longer flexible enough to remember those weird META
sequences to do stuff. Further, I don't think I need much of the functionality
available under Emacs - I don't even use all the functionality in VI...all
I need from an editor is to let me move about a file, and edit/save it, do
some substitutions on expressions - that's about it. For these basic tasks,
I'll venture to guess that a seasoned VI user is as efficient (if not more
efficient?) than an Emacs user...of course, once you move beyond this
functionality subset, Emacs will win hands-down.
Over the years, the only features I've consistently looked for in VI (and,
someone, please let me know if you've found a VI clone that has them):
1. Language-dependent, color-coded text (e.g. comments in a different
color from code.)
2. Graphical (X-Windows-based) multi-window support (i.e. a separate
X Window for each file being edited.)
3. A way of positioning the cursor with a mouse.
GNU Emacs can do all the above, possibly even in its "vi emulation" mode, but
the emulator is not complete and doing it would defeat the purpose of using
a small, simple, fast editor (all relative, of course :-) in the first place.
Just my $.02,
Tom
--
+------------------------------------------+
| Thomas Wolf | (908) 957-3955 |...Still can't think of anything
| Bell Labs, NJ | wo...@merlin.mt.att.com | original to put in my sig...
| MT 4D-213 | wo...@jolt.mt.att.com |...So this valuable real-estate
+------------------------------------------+ is for sale...
Disclaimer: These are my opinions and not necessarily those of my employer.
David Fox
] Oh come now. I'm a younger guy, and I ONLY use vi. I hate emacs. Sure it can
] do a lot of things, but it is soooooo heavy!
You kids don't know what a heavy editor is. Back in the early
70s editors had to be bolted down to specially reinforced floors...
--
David Fox xoF divaD
NYU Media Research Lab baL hcraeseR aideM UYN
Leslie Mikesell
>Oh, all the documents describe this mysterious mode, but it's not there. Rather
>than an insert mode, there is an insert command.
But the problem is that people don't pay attention to whether they are
executing an insert (or append) command or not. However it doesn't really
matter since the character to end these commands is harmless by itself
if you don't mind the beep. What you need is a command list that
shows every command starting with <esc> so it doesn't matter what you
are doing when you type them. Then vi becomes almost modeless and
the command set becomes almost as ugly as emacs'.
Les Mikesell
l...@mcs.com
Jerry Leslie
: From article <id.QYR...@nmti.com>, by pe...@nmti.com (Peter da Silva):
That was from an article someone had emialed me, which I posted that was
a humorous treatise on 'vi'. It was posted to lighten up the thread.
Editors, operating systems, programming languages are 'religions' for
some folks, not open for discussion about alternatives to the "one
true faith".
With most editors being ported to other operating systems, those who's
knowledge of their favorite editor is imbedded in their finger tips can
function on alien operating systems. That's why there are 'vi' and 'emacs'
ports for VMS.
So we almost have vendor-insensitive editors, discounting IBM 026 key
punches.
Bob Kitzberger
: 0. It does nothing to reduce the (human) memory load required to use it. There
: are no prompts, all commands must be memorized. Of course, the only one I've
: bothered to memorize is ":q".
I swear, if you use it long enough, then the memory/mind load is offloaded
to synapses along your arms and fingers -- your mind passes the command
"filter this marked region through a Unix shell to obtain only the
first column" to your fingers, and your finger synapses interpret this
and type 1G!Gawk '{print $1}'. ;-)
Personally, I use vi when I want the editor to come up quickly so I
can make a trivial change to a file... and emacs for everything
of significance.
.Bob.
--
Bob Kitzberger
Rational Software Corp. 10565 Brunswick Rd. #11, Grass Valley, CA 95945 USA
Dennis Heltzel
: Certainly Emacs has a lot of functionality, but byte for byte, nothing
: comes close to vi, although various other editors like teco might be the
: ultimate in functionality. Edit can't even come close to the power of
: vi.
I agree, vi is great! And contrary to popular opinion, vi is very user
friendly, it's just choosy about who it's friends are ;)
Dennis
Superuser
Lets be sensible here!
Has anybody tried joe? It is a pc type editor i.e easy to use
It is available from a number of ftp archives
John
Colin Campbell
: > Just about any editor is more friendly than vi.
: Boy, kids today just don't know what a really hostile editor is like!
For a minute there I thought I heard someone whisper `teco' :-)
Colin
eclipse
: Lets be sensible here!
: Has anybody tried joe? It is a pc type editor i.e easy to use
: It is available from a number of ftp archives
: John
There are dozens of these. I expect you could even write one inside
of emacs (well, I'm sure you could, I'm just not sure why you'd want to).
There are two main points I'd like to make about using pico (which is by
far the most popular), or nedit (for Motif) or any of these other editors.
They're nice, but they're nonstandard - learn at least one standard editor.
VI is incredibly handy once you get the knack. EMACS is great for LISP
(obviously; it *is* a LISP interpreter) and as a user shell. Before you
give up on either of these, learn to use them (what will you lose?) so
you know what they can do, and why they haven't been replaced. pico and
the others are there to provide editors for non-UNIX users who shouldn't
have to learn anything about computers (because they are only users).
They only want a typewriter with the best backspace on the planet.
)* eclipse
Mark Galbraith
In article <31lo1e$l...@paperboy.wellfleet.com> asri...@wellfleet.com (A.K.Srikanth) writes:
A> Yes there is a vi version for DOS. I have it. I got it from my brother and I am
A> not sure where he bought it from.
^^^^^^
You mean you didn't pay the license fee for a comercial program!? Shame
on you. ;-)
Remember, "Don't copy that floppy." (from the brochures put out by the
Association of Software Professionals -- ASP)
--
--
Mark Galbraith Voice: +1 510 449 0606 x6513
Senior Software Engineer/Postmaster FAX: +1 510 373 9611
Triad Systems Corporation E-mail: m...@triad.com
Livermore, California "#include <std/disclaimer>"
Kurt Swanson
>In article <31palr$e...@citecub.citec.qld.gov.au>,
>sgc...@citecub.citec.qld.gov.au (Colin Campbell) wrote:
>[excerpt]
>> For a minute there I thought I heard someone whisper `teco' :-)
>Do you remember the full-screen version of TECO?
>I liked TECO a lot, especially the way it could handle large files that
>other editors couldn't.
>And TECO macros,... You hadn't lived until you used those a few times.
>Reminds me of "Real programmers don't use higher order languages; they
>program on the bare metal." Also, TECO's elegant if-then-else construct.
>I tried teaching TECO to the "younger generation," but unfortunately they
>had no patience or desire for it. They agreed with the statement that TECO
>commands look a lot like "line noise."
<ESC><ESC>$<ESC><ESC><ESC>$$<ESC><ESC><ESC><ESC>$$$ ... ad infinitum ...
... no thank you, still it beat the pants off of DEC old "SOS"...
--
Kurt Swanson, Dept. of Computer Science,
Lund University. Kurt.S...@dna.lth.se (http://www.dna.lth.se/EHP/kurt.html)
Scott Hagie
to bother the admin group with this crap for instance]
eclipse (ecl...@clark.net) wrote:
: Superuser (j...@glacc.foremost.co.uk) wrote:
: : Has anybody tried joe? It is a pc type editor i.e easy to use
: There are dozens of these. I expect you could even write one inside
: of emacs (well, I'm sure you could, I'm just not sure why you'd want to).
: There are two main points I'd like to make about using pico (which is by
: far the most popular), or nedit (for Motif) or any of these other editors.
: They're nice, but they're nonstandard - learn at least one standard editor.
: VI is incredibly handy once you get the knack. EMACS is great for LISP
: (obviously; it *is* a LISP interpreter) and as a user shell. Before you
: give up on either of these, learn to use them (what will you lose?) so
: you know what they can do, and why they haven't been replaced. pico and
: the others are there to provide editors for non-UNIX users who shouldn't
: have to learn anything about computers (because they are only users).
: They only want a typewriter with the best backspace on the planet.
I agree with some of that, but not all. While I agree you should know Vi,
just because it's standard, you'll find that is becoming less important, as
more machines come included with Pico and even Joe. Almost all full service
providers provide Joe, and even Linux does. But it's just a matter of speed,
and Vi and Emacs are not very user-oriented, and very hard to use, even when
you are used to it. They don't make full use of the keyboard, the commands
are long and cryptic (you want to do a search-and-replace in Vi? Good luck
remebering what the command is), and you don't gain anything for putting up
with it's non-intuitive interface.
Scott
--
Scott Hagie - ha...@netcom.com - Sierra Madre, Ca.
ACME Exploding Signature...5....4....3...<BOOM!>..
Leslie Mikesell
>
>> But the problem is that people don't pay attention to whether they are
>> executing an insert (or append) command or not.
>
>always hitting esc after you're done typing*, so unless you're currently
>editing text you're always in quote command mode unquote.
Yes, you also need to remember that <esc> *completes* the command unlike
just about everything else you are likely to use. Ever do something like
:!rm * <esc> in vi?
Les Mikesell
l...@mcs.com
Harald Eikrem
! j...@glacc.foremost.co.uk said:
! ! Lets be sensible here!
! !
! ! Has anybody tried joe? It is a pc type editor i.e easy to use
!
! I have, and I found it downright useless. The worst things about it is that
! the command bindings are horrible (ctrl-K prefix for everything you want to
! do --- Wordstar-like, huh?), and that there isn't a repeat function suitable
! for use within macros (i.e. it's impossible to build powerful macros.)
I forgot to tell the foremost flaw about "joe":
It's totally dependent on a fairly complete .joerc file (like the one
that's distributed), it won't work at all without it since it takes all
command bindings from .joerc. Not a single keyboard command is preloaded.
~~h
Timothy Allen
sgc...@citecub.citec.qld.gov.au (Colin Campbell) wrote:
[excerpt]
Bruce Barnett
1) start the editor
2) type your name
If you get several beeps, and a core dump ... you win!
:-)
--
Bruce Barnett <bar...@crd.ge.com> uunet!crdras!barnett
Michael Lemke
Timothy Allen <tja...@mbunix.mitre.org> wrote:
>In article <31palr$e...@citecub.citec.qld.gov.au>,
>sgc...@citecub.citec.qld.gov.au (Colin Campbell) wrote:
>[excerpt]
>> For a minute there I thought I heard someone whisper `teco' :-)
>
>
>Do you remember the full-screen version of TECO?
>
No, unfortunately not. It this still available somewhere? I'd like to
try as instead of being forced to use vi (btw. it's commands look like
TECO's, i.e. line noise) I would rather use the real thing. And the
only thing I didn't like about TECO was that I had to have the screen in
my mind.
>I liked TECO a lot, especially the way it could handle large files that
>other editors couldn't.
Right. And not just text. Any file. You can patch executable with it.
Michael
--
Michael Lemke
Institute of Astronomy, Cambridge UK
(mic...@io.as.utexas.edu or UTSPAN::UTADNX::IO::MICHAEL [SPAN])
Michael Lemke
David Barr <ba...@pop.psu.edu> wrote:
>In article <31rhhd$q...@Mercury.mcs.com>, Leslie Mikesell <l...@MCS.COM> wrote:
>>Yes, you also need to remember that <esc> *completes* the command unlike
>>just about everything else you are likely to use. Ever do something like
>>:!rm * <esc> in vi?
>
><esc> completes commands, even command-line (ex) commands.
>
Like in TECO.
Harald Eikrem
I have, and I found it downright useless. The worst things about it is that
the command bindings are horrible (ctrl-K prefix for everything you want to
do --- Wordstar-like, huh?), and that there isn't a repeat function suitable
for use within macros (i.e. it's impossible to build powerful macros.)
I mostly use to vi, but frankly, I find myself a little helpless without the
100 or so `map'pings that's in my ~/.exrc (actually I load them into $EXINIT
from a ~/.exinit file, then they'll work across `su' commands.....)
~~h
Stuart Herbert
: I am looking out for a "user friendly" editor which would replace VI on
: our SUN machine running Solaris 2.
JED. Full screen editor, completely customisable (I have it set up to
work on the same keybindings as Borland's IDE), syntax highlighting, even
has a TeX mode (not that I've used it). Oh, all this is available for
normal terminals and X11 as well.
Stuart
--
Stuart Herbert -- S.He...@shef.ac.uk
Peter da Silva
The Higher Power <thre...@astro.ocis.temple.edu> wrote:
> Editors more hostile than VI? Of course, there are/used to be plenty of
> them. But, mostly, that's all in the past now, with of course the
> exception of VI which unfortunately still exists. I'm sorry, perhaps I
> should be more direct: VI ABSOLUTELY SUX!
Compared to DEC's "now let's see how does the keypad mapping work on THIS
terminal" EDT?
Peter da Silva
> In article <id.1ZR...@nmti.com>, Peter da Silva <pe...@nmti.com> wrote:
> >Oh, all the documents describe this mysterious mode, but it's not there. Rather
> >than an insert mode, there is an insert command.
> But the problem is that people don't pay attention to whether they are
> executing an insert (or append) command or not.
Ah, but that's the *magic*. Since it's a command you get in the habit of
always hitting esc after you're done typing*, so unless you're currently
editing text you're always in quote command mode unquote.
Amit W Kumar
14033-R.SCHREIBMAIER(MT5655)1223MT <b...@mtdcr.att.com> wrote:
%From article <id.QYR...@nmti.com>, by pe...@nmti.com (Peter da Silva):
%> In article <31ksq3$n...@uuneo.neosoft.com>,
%> Jerry Leslie <jle...@dmccorp.com> wrote:
%>> Certainly, there must be lots of convincing rea-
%>> sons in deleting a character by pressing three keys `ESC', `x', `i' in-
%>> stead of single `del'.
%>
%> Gee, what *am* I doing wrong? I just press "backspace".
%
%On my system, you just press 'x' to delete a character. What's this
%'ESC', 'x', 'i'?
%
Assuming you're in the "insert" mode, and assuming ^H and the Backspace
and Del keys did not work, you'd still need Esc-x-a, not Esc-x-i. This
of course presuming you've not mapped some key to do this.
For the record: emacs doesn't suck -- it bites!
(I'll make my coffee myself, thank you. :)
Amit
Amit W Kumar
Kinda stupid replying to my own article, but I just realized that
helluva lot of keyboards don't even have an "Esc" key. So, it's going
to have to be ^[ - x - a to be really independent of the system you're
working on.
Amit
P.S.: I have a couple of vi ref. card type of files that I ftp'ed from
someplace I can't remember. If there's any interest, I could post
them here.
Matthew Aaron Armstrong
: Certainly Emacs has a lot of functionality, but byte for byte, nothing
: comes close to vi, although various other editors like teco might be the
: ultimate in functionality. Edit can't even come close to the power of
: vi.
Where can one find out about all the vi functionality? Is there a
good book that you have used, or is it word of mouth looking over
someone's shoulder knowledge?
I've read the man page completely and still have no clue how to do
search and replace in vi, and have no clue whether vi even has a macro
capability, can set tab expansion size, etc, etc, .. in other words, I
don't know how to do very basic things in vi and I don't think I
should have to buy a big book to find out.
I should admit, however, that I'm in vi editing this document. I
love the b and w commands, and use cw a lot. I can tell there is a lot
of power in vi, and that it all makes sense in a strange way, but am
wondering how to get at it.
-Matt
Gary L. Burnore
Thomas Wolf <wo...@merlin.mt.att.com> wrote:
>I'll venture to guess that a seasoned VI user is as efficient (if not more
>efficient?) than an Emacs user...of course, once you move beyond this
>functionality subset, Emacs will win hands-down.
I'd pit speed/proficiency in vi against emacs anyday. I used vi then
emacs, now I'm back to vi. Simple elegance. I can do more with it than
I could ever do in emacs. And besides, I have enough to deal with on a
day to day basis without the hassles of switching between editors because
some don't have emacs. If a machine doesn't have vi, goodbye. (Hey, I
made another rhyme).
All in all though, to be fair to all the emacs users out there, with the
exception of wordstar, the first editor you use is usually the one you'll
like best.
--
gbur...@garys.arasmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How you look depends on where you go.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Director, Programming & Development | нлГКнГоГКнГнлГКнГоГКнГнГоГКнГннлл
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===============================================================================
Bryan Cantrill
>all the UNIX boxes I worked on thereafter.
Huzza, huzza. Someone has finally hit on the reason why I (and many people,
I believe) use vi over emacs: no matter where I go in my life, I will
always be able to find vi. It is a tight, simple, powerful, and yes,
easy-to-use editor. As has been overheard around here, any moron can
sit down and learn vi in 15 minutes. Many people go years without knowing
anything more than "i", "x" and "w" or whatever.
>I'll venture to guess that a seasoned VI user is as efficient (if not more
>efficient?) than an Emacs user...of course, once you move beyond this
>functionality subset, Emacs will win hands-down.
Will they? I've seen some people who've dedicated far too much of their
lives to becoming one with emacs (JonMon, if you're out there, this means
you), and I don't believe that the seasoned vi users I've come across are
any less efficient....
I tried to resist adding to this thread...in retrospect, I don't know
why I did it...some emacs weirdo is probably going to do a M-x mail-bomb...
- Bryan
Bryan Cantrill email: br...@qnx.com
QNX Software Systems, Ltd. mail : 175 Terence Matthews
(613) 591-0931 x144 (voice) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8
Thomas Fletcher
A whole bunch of great folks wrote:
>: % |> Boy, kids today just don't know what a really hostile editor is like!
>: % Tell us about the old days, Uncle Peter.
>
>: do a lot of things, but it is soooooo heavy!
>
>Has anybody tried joe? It is a pc type editor i.e easy to use
>It is available from a number of ftp archives
>
I think that is is in everybody's best interest to be as *familiar*
as possible with a number of editors. I use VI for most of my
tasks since it is defacto standard for Unix systems. At home on
my PC with Linux/Ms-Dos I use Joe on the Linux partition for most
of my tasks. I like it since I have grown up with WordStar right
from the days when we ran it off an apple II running CP/CPM, and
it is very much like that program. Pico might also be another
alternative ... it is smooth easy to use but it is very simple.
As ugly as VI, Emacs are you can't argue the fact that they
are powerfull once you get familiar with them ... despite what
may be for PC users a steep learning curve.
That is my two bits ...
tf
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Thomas Fletcher Library Systems Office Co-op Student (Engineering)
McPherson Library Rm. 318 (Study Carrel)
Office (604) 721-8263
tfle...@malahat.library.uvic.ca
tfle...@engr.uvic.ca
Supervisor:
Simon Churchill Library Systems Consultant
McPherson Library 4th floor Administration
Office: (604)721-7623 FAX: (604) 721-8215
schu...@sol.uvic.ca
adam.v.reed
>> and have no clue whether vi even has a macro
>> capability,
>You're supposed to use regular expression substitutions for anything more
>complex.
That is not exactly accurate. Vi macros allow the filtering of
any buffer, or of selected lines from the main buffer, through
arbitrary filters. The filters are, typically, shell or awk
scripts. I have written vi macros for spelling correction, and
for editor-guided execution and debugging, using the conditional
and other facilities of ksh, awk etc. I have also written a vi
macro pair for editing binary files, with a simple compiled (C)
filter. I have never encountered anything that one can do with
Emacs that could not be done with vi, or, for that matter, vice
versa. That's my programmer hat.
Now for my psychologist hat. Editing skills are highly
overlearned, so switching editors in *unavoidably*
anti-productive because of negative transfer. It does not matter
which editor you switch to or from. The best editor is *always*
the one you have used the most, or a proper superset of it.
That, by the way, was the advice Dave Korn got from Jim Farber
and myself back when he was first designing ksh. And I think the
world is better for it. Regards,
Adam_...@ATT.com
Nikos George
Matthew Aaron Armstrong <arms...@cs.ucdavis.edu> wrote:
>David E. Fox (ro...@belvedere.sbay.org) wrote:
> Where can one find out about all the vi functionality? Is there a
>good book that you have used, or is it word of mouth looking over
>someone's shoulder knowledge?
The *absolutely* best (IMHO) book on vi is
"The Ultimate guide to the vi and ex text editors" ,
Hewlett Packard Company 1990
You can also get the O'Reilly book but the above can teach you more of the
non-obvious things.
/Nikos
Logan Shaw
> For those who want vi, instead of pushing meta sequences around...
>
> You might want to check out ViM 2.0, available on
>
> ftp.cdrom.com : pub/aminet/util/edit =as= vim-2.0-src.lha
>
> Its really a vi superset; has unlimited undo, for example -- uses ctrl-R to
> undo the undos.
>
> It compiles on Unix, AmigaDos, and MiSeryDos!
This is the best vi clone I've seen. I've used elvis, stevie, and
probably a few others, including emacs 'vi-mode', which, I have to say,
doesn't seem to support -really- simple things).
However, I'd like to multi-undo done different. I'm in the habit of
relying on 'u' to be both undo and redo, which it's not in vim. I don't
mind having multi-undo, but I just don't like the function of 'u' to
change. (There might be some kind of option for this that I don't know
about.)
Also, most people using Unix (or MS-DOS) systems aren't going to be able
to decode a '.lha' file. A tar-ed and compress-ed version and maybe a
pkzip-ed version would be nice.
Adios,
Logan
--
The genius of France can be seen at a glance
And it's not in their fabled fashion scene
It's not that they're mean, or their wine, or cuisine
I refer of course to the guillotine
(the French knew how to lynch)
T Bone Burnett, "I Can Explain Everything"
Peter da Silva
> good book that you have used, or is it word of mouth looking over
> someone's shoulder knowledge?
The best document on VI is "an introduction to display editing with vi",
straight from the horses mouth.
It used to be hard to get ahold of, but now you can hie thee to the nearest
*BSD FTP site and extract it from... let me recall...
/usr/src/share/doc/*
There's a lot of other good stuff in there as well.
> I've read the man page completely and still have no clue how to do
> search and replace in vi,
:/original/s//new/^M
> and have no clue whether vi even has a macro
> capability,
Three limited ways of executing simple sequences of commands. No conditionals.
You're supposed to use regular expression substitutions for anything more
complex.
> can set tab expansion size,
:se sw=<n> ts=<n>^M
Stephen Hebditch
<whome!light-house!l...@planix.com> wrote:
> I recommend "joe". Fast, uses adavanced features such as virtual memory,
> folding windows, and comes with online help screens. It also runs on DOS,
> if that's what you need.
Does anyone know if there is a version of joe newer than 1.0.8, and if
yes, where it can be found?
Although joe is my editor of choice, it does have a few bugs in its
memory handling - occasionally crashing after being in use for a long
time and sucking up vast amounts of memory when trying to use regular
expression searching functions.
Jacques Legare
>and Vi and Emacs are not very user-oriented, and very hard to use, even when
>you are used to it. They don't make full use of the keyboard, the commands
>are long and cryptic (you want to do a search-and-replace in Vi? Good luck
>remebering what the command is), and you don't gain anything for putting up
>with it's non-intuitive interface.
I _do_ gain something from using vi. I find that most of the pc like editors
are completely useless. I remember a workmate of mine (who likes to
sneer at my use of vi) saying something like, ``oh shit I have to find
all the occurences of LINE_BUF that _aren't_ preceeded by '_'.'' He
couldn't do it in his _superior_ pc editor, he
had to do it by hand in a 90K source file! I guess vi must _really_
suck huh, I just use a regexp and the job is done!
I also find it funny that the programmers at my shop (we do OS/2 apps)
find an MLE to be acceptable as a programming editor. I think MLE's
are complete garbage. The designers of these things seem to think
that cutting and pasting, mousing around and brain dead no regexp
search and replace facilities are acceptable, and sadly most
programmers seem to think so too. I would expect naive users to find
this acceptable but programmers, they should know that better things
exist.
Basically if an editor does not have regexps and relies heavily on
menus and mousing around I will not use it.
Take it from someone who actually knows and uses 80% of the
commands in vi. You do gain something from learning the relatively
simple commands. An increase in power sometimes does come at the
expense of simplicity, and sadly vi may be a little more cryptic that
it needs to be. I find that with a few weeks practice these things
stop bothering you and that you don't have to do so many things by
hand.
Leslie Mikesell
>>Yes, you also need to remember that <esc> *completes* the command unlike
>>just about everything else you are likely to use. Ever do something like
>>:!rm * <esc> in vi?
>
>I don't understand, that a _consitency_ in vi, not an inconsistency.
><esc> completes commands, even command-line (ex) commands.
It just shows the program's age. It belongs to a time when there
weren't any standards for the user interface and using a particular
computer program was considered important enough that humans should
devote a large amount of time to learn it. These days people
expect some consistency with other things, like <enter> meaning
"do it" and <escape> meaning "forget it", and the computer is expected
to help the user along.
Les Mikesell
l...@mcs.com
Clive Roberts
Eric J. Schwertfeger
: Also, most people using Unix (or MS-DOS) systems aren't going to be able
: to decode a '.lha' file. A tar-ed and compress-ed version and maybe a
: pkzip-ed version would be nice.
Sure they are, they just need to rename the file to an .lzh extension, and
use LHA 2.13 to decode it, which originated on MS-Dos, and compatible
(de)compressors have been written for Unix. I don't know why the Amiga LHA
defaults to .lha and everything else defaults to .lzh, though.
Henry Schofield Noble
: It just shows the program's age. It belongs to a time when there
: weren't any standards for the user interface and using a particular
: computer program was considered important enough that humans should
: devote a large amount of time to learn it. These days people
: expect some consistency with other things, like <enter> meaning
: "do it" and <escape> meaning "forget it", and the computer is expected
: to help the user along.
Right on target.
There has been a slew of messages in this conference setting forth the
authors' opinions as to what is the "best" editor, without any real
attention to the question: Best for what?
Best for writing programs in C? Best for writing programs in LISP? Best
for writing a man page?
How about best for people who don't devote their lives to Unix?
Given that the focus of this newsgroup is supposed to be on user-friendly,
it seems to me that the discussion should be about editors that don't take
weeks or years of study and practice to deliver results. Pico is user-
friendly, at least in the Unix context. Sure it doesn't have the raw
power of some other editors, but with Pico a new user can quickly create a
.plan file or edit the .newsrc file.
Is there any Unix editor that is easier to use than is Pico? If so,
let's hear about it.
William Chris Graham
:> Is there any Unix editor that is easier to use than is Pico? If so,
:> let's hear about it.
I've heard an awful lot of talk about PICO, recommendations of it
as "the editor to use 'cuz it's so easy". I think it is wrong to
recommend PICO as an all-purpose editor.
Don't get me wrong, PICO is a godsend. I'm responsible for
getting novice users going with their accounts, and if they had
to use EMACS, I wouldn't have time for much else. :-) But from
what I know, PICO is a -message- editor. Line wrap, spelling,
and paragraph formatting are right there ready to be used. What
about doing a search and replace? Can you? Maybe we just have
an odd version, but I can't find it anywhere, and that isn't just
a programmer's feature. There are some other document-editing
features that are conspicuously missing, but I can't remember
them right now.
Another thought: forgive me for being such a UNIX nerd, but I
really like customizing things, especially to get things running
smoothly on users' accounts. It doesn't seem like there's much I
can do with PICO (besides "-t", of course, which is great). Am I
missing something?
OH! Question! (wrong newsgroup[s], undoubtedly):
[use reply mail if you think so]
Where the heck do I specify the editor for TIN?
If this is too obvious, don't kill me, I haven't started
hunting seriously yet; the first few things I've tried haven't
worked.
Chris
David Lehmann
> A> not sure where he bought it from.
Maybe MKS toolkit?
-David
Peter da Silva
adam.v.reed <a...@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> wrote:
> In article <id.ABV...@nmti.com> pe...@nmti.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
> >> and have no clue whether vi even has a macro
> >> capability,
> >Three limited ways of executing simple sequences of commands. No conditionals.
> >You're supposed to use regular expression substitutions for anything more
> >complex.
> That is not exactly accurate. Vi macros allow the filtering of
> any buffer, or of selected lines from the main buffer, through
> arbitrary filters.
That is a separate issue from macros. Saying that "vi macros" allow that
implies that you can't do it interactively. You can, of course. I should
have added a comment on filters, but not as part of macros.
Bruce Jackson
>Someone has finally hit on the reason why I (and many people,
>I believe) use vi over emacs: no matter where I go in my life, I will
>always be able to find vi. It is a tight, simple, powerful, and yes,
>easy-to-use editor. As has been overheard around here, any moron can
>sit down and learn vi in 15 minutes. Many people go years without knowing
>anything more than "i", "x" and "w" or whatever.
People used the same argument as an argument against vi years ago. Vi
is nice but ed is on every UNIX system. You might as well learn the
editor that you can count on being everywhere instead of some newfangled
editor with features you can get along without.
>Will they? I've seen some people who've dedicated far too much of their
>lives to becoming one with emacs (JonMon, if you're out there, this means
>you), and I don't believe that the seasoned vi users I've come across are
>any less efficient....
I wouldn't even voice an opinion here unless I had some data to back
it up. I use emacs 80% of the time but sometimes doing things in vi
is possible with fewer keystrokes so I fire up vi. I also resort to
using ed sometimes. This is mainly when I'm trying to bring up a
cratered system that can't yet run vi or emacs. In general every UNIX
user should know enough vi to build emacs. Every UNIX manager should
know enough ed to be able to bring up a UNIX system when /usr can't be
mounted or there is not enough swap space for vi. After this minimal
amount of knowledge of editors the rest is up to the user. All of
this IMHO natch.
--
Bruce Jackson | Univ. of North Texas | jac...@cs.unt.edu
UNIX Systems Admin. | P. O. Box 13886 | GAB 550E (817)565-2279
Dept. of Computer Sci.| Denton, Tx. 76203-3886 | FAX: (817)565-2799
Craig Nordin
>Henry Schofield Noble (no...@cpcug.digex.net) wrote:
>:> Is there any Unix editor that is easier to use than is Pico? If so,
>:> let's hear about it.
I know of one that would meet your stated objectives but may
fall through your indirect or implied goals.
I have fse (also a curses version) which is dirt-simple. It is
easier than Pico because it has even fewer options.
Some users are confused by all the things that they can do, and
that is when I give them fse ("Full Screen Editor").
It is orphan-ware, apparently written by someone at West Point
Military Academy. The source is about 40K and has compiled
easily for me on SVR3 and SVR4 (and SVR4.2 :).
If anyone wants to try it out, send me email with "send me fse"
in the subject line. I'll pop off a copy of the source to you
(shar'ed).
I've kept this in my figurative back-pocket for the last three
years and the only comment I ever hear about it is someone
eventually saying "Do you have something that can ....", at which
point I usually give them Pico. It is close enough in look
and feel for Pico to provide a smooth transition....
blah blah blah..... sometimes dirt-simple works well, sometimes not.
--
See the Emerald on the Matrix? Baltimore, Maryland Access to the Internet
That's Charm.Net Hon! E-Mail: in...@charm.net Voice:(410) 558.3900
http://www.charm.net/ "guest" login, no password Data:(410) 558.3300
Thomas Kwong
>However, I'd like to multi-undo done different. I'm in the habit of
>relying on 'u' to be both undo and redo, which it's not in vim. I don't
>mind having multi-undo, but I just don't like the function of 'u' to
>change. (There might be some kind of option for this that I don't know
>about.)
According to the "differen.doc" of vim, you can have vi-compatible
undo by setting the variable "undolines" to zero (default=100).
Yes, this is by far the best vi clone (super-clone) I have ever seen.
-Tom
14033-R.SCHREIBMAIER(MT5655)1223MT
> Yes, lot's of them. Some shareware, some not that much.
> But try GNU's Elvis (use archie to search, I don't have an addr at
> hand).
You can always get the latest Elvis from ftp.cs.pdx.edu in the
/pub/elvis directory.
--
----------------------------------------------------
Bob Schreibmaier K2PH | UUCP: ...!att!mtdcr!bob
AT&T Bell Laboratories | Internet: b...@mtdcr.att.com
Middletown, N.J. 07748 | ICBM: 40o21'N, 74o8'W
Peter da Silva
Henry Schofield Noble <no...@cpcug.digex.net> wrote:
> How about best for people who don't devote their lives to Unix?
Xedit, Nedit, or some other X-windows based editor that provides a friendly
mouse-around mode. There's no question but that Window Icon Mouse Pointer
interfaces are easier to use for novices.
But beyond that, if you have to use VI then it really does help to understand
how it works... and not one book or article on it that I have seen has ever
explained *why* vi's "insert mode" is so weird. Just keep in mind that it's
not an insert "mode" at all, and it makes sense.
Antonio Vasconcelos
: are powerfull once you get familiar with them ... despite what
: may be for PC users a steep learning curve.
Oh ya... Last week I have to install DOS 5 on a PC that only have DOS
4.01 in order to edit AUTOEXEC.BAT.
COPY CON: AUTOEXEC.BAT if far more user-friendly than EDLIN.
Anyway, I can't see why all this fuss, anyone remembers of old
computers like ZX Spectrum, TSR-80, Amstrad CPC... Haaaa... They
really had EDITORS !!! (I belive that I like vi just because I used
Devpac's GENs (a ZX-Spectrum assembler) editor a LOT)!
--
regards,
Antonio Vasconcelos
@ The Lisbon $tock Exchange (BVL) require 'std/disclaimer.ph'
<<< This is Marion Barry--<plop>--on drugs. >>>
Steve Willoughby
>>Do you remember the full-screen version of TECO?
>No, unfortunately not. It this still available somewhere? I'd like to
>try as instead of being forced to use vi (btw. it's commands look like
>TECO's, i.e. line noise) I would rather use the real thing. And the
>only thing I didn't like about TECO was that I had to have the screen in
>my mind.
I couldn't find one, so I'm in the middle of writing my own variation of
TECO with all the full-screen commands (interactive edit modes, etc)
I can post it to the net when finished if there's enough interest.
(using it to edit this message, in fact :-)
>>I liked TECO a lot, especially the way it could handle large files that
>>other editors couldn't.
>Right. And not just text. Any file. You can patch executable with it.
Yeah, I've found some surprising cases where I needed to patch a binary
file or do something complicated to a file, and TECO was just the right
tool for the job--sure got some interesting looks from my coworkers,
though!
When I was in high school, some friends of mine and I got hooked on TECO
(okay, I'll show my age here--our school's computing resources consisted
of a pair of DECwriters, some ASR33's and an Altair. Oh, and a PET.)
We were also in an Explorer Post at Tektronix in Beaverton, OR, where we
were quite happy using TECO while hacking on our C programs on their 11/70
--until they decided to "encourage" us to use more "sensible" editors
and started hiding TECO where we couldn't (they thought...hah) get to it.
I still have a few of the large banners and stickers bearing the phrase,
"TECO is better" with which we found various ways to show our feelings at
Tek. Ah, memories :)
--
Steve Willoughby Intel Corporation GCS d-- -p+ c+++
Unix Systems Administrator Microprocessor Prod. Group (MD6) l+ u++ e* m++@
MD6 Unix E-mail Postmaster 2111 NE 25th Ave, M/S JF1-22 s--/+ n++ h- f+
st...@ichips.intel.com Hillsboro, OR 97124 503 696-4736 g+ w+ t+++ r++ y
Philip Homburg
%In article <Cu2p0...@taligent.com> lo...@taligent.com (Logan Shaw) writes:
%>However, I'd like to multi-undo done different. I'm in the habit of
%>relying on 'u' to be both undo and redo, which it's not in vim. I don't
%>mind having multi-undo, but I just don't like the function of 'u' to
%>change. (There might be some kind of option for this that I don't know
%>about.)
%
%According to the "differen.doc" of vim, you can have vi-compatible
%undo by setting the variable "undolines" to zero (default=100).
%Yes, this is by far the best vi clone (super-clone) I have ever seen.
The best vi 'clone' I have seen is the 4.4 BSD nvi. You only have to ignore
extensions like :sp(lit)
Philip Homburg
Antonio Vasconcelos
: Woody Jin (wj...@moocow.cs.uh.edu) wrote:
: : In article <id.DRN...@nmti.com>, Peter da Silva <pe...@nmti.com> wrote:
: : >In article <3191cn$n...@sand.cis.ufl.edu>,
:
:
: : Even my 6 yr old kid is using vi. I just don't understand
: : when people are saying vi is not user-friendly.
:
: Hey, this might not be the right place, but... Is there a port of vi to
: DOS? I like it enough to want it for my own computer... ;-)
Yes, lot's of them. Some shareware, some not that much.
But try GNU's Elvis (use archie to search, I don't have an addr at
hand).
--
Antonio Vasconcelos
: When I teach beginning programming I tell people that don't know an editor
: to use textedit on the Suns. I'm a vi bigot myself, but my vi class is about
: a half day class, and I don't fit it into my other classes. Right now
: I'm teaching a "System Programming Using C++," class and have a couple of
: people using textedit.
[ some folklore ]...
Oh boy, they should love to track errors produced by VERY LONG
LINES, as textedit fakes newlines keeping everything in the some
line if you don't type ENTER at the end of the line. It may happen
like it happened to me, ages ago, trying to help a friend that was
geting strange errors from the BASIC interperter (GW basic, I
think). In the end, BASIC compilers doesn't like that you type
commands, then add spaces until de cursor is column 1 of the next
line... I don't think that C++ compilers like that either... 8-)
Antonio Vasconcelos
: >I tried teaching TECO to the "younger generation," but unfortunately they
: >had no patience or desire for it. They agreed with the statement that TECO
: >commands look a lot like "line noise."
:
: <ESC><ESC>$<ESC><ESC><ESC>$$<ESC><ESC><ESC><ESC>$$$ ... ad infinitum ...
:
: ... no thank you, still it beat the pants off of DEC old "SOS"...
Gosh! Where is the checksum ???
Henry Schofield Noble
: as "the editor to use 'cuz it's so easy". I think it is wrong to
: recommend PICO as an all-purpose editor.
I agree. No editor fits that bill.
I would argue, though, that Pico is the best editor I've seen for novices
and for those who are only intermittent Unix users (defacto novices?).
: Don't get me wrong, PICO is a godsend. I'm responsible for
: getting novice users going with their accounts, and if they had
: to use EMACS, I wouldn't have time for much else. :-) But from
: what I know, PICO is a -message- editor. Line wrap, spelling,
: and paragraph formatting are right there ready to be used. What
: about doing a search and replace? Can you? Maybe we just have
: an odd version, but I can't find it anywhere, and that isn't just
: a programmer's feature. There are some other document-editing
: features that are conspicuously missing, but I can't remember
: them right now.
^W is the code for searching. There is no search-and-replace as yet.
As for document editing features, well, if that's what I need to do I'll
be using WordPerfect.
: Where the heck do I specify the editor for TIN?
I wish I knew, so I could add the -t switch and not have to answer the
damn "Save modified buffer" question each time I want to post.
Logan Shaw
lharc: command not found
Yes, you're right, there probably -is- a version for Unix somewhere, but
some people don't have time to track down and compile a different freely
distributable tool for each different little format that someone chooses
to use for an archive. If it's Unix software, it's really nice to have
it in tar format (and .Z-ed or gzip-ed).
In other words, the world does not revolve around MS-DOS (at least not
the Unix world), and, as we've seen so clearly lately, it -certainly-
doesn't revolve around the Amiga (which is somewhat unfortunate, since my
Amiga 2000 is now worth barely 1/10th its original purchase price).
Pyramids-R-Us
Timothy Allen <tja...@mbunix.mitre.org> wrote:
>In article <31palr$e...@citecub.citec.qld.gov.au>,
>sgc...@citecub.citec.qld.gov.au (Colin Campbell) wrote:
>[excerpt]
>> For a minute there I thought I heard someone whisper `teco' :-)
TECO TECO!
>
>
>Do you remember the full-screen version of TECO?
>Reminds me of "Real programmers don't use higher order languages; they
>program on the bare metal." Also, TECO's elegant if-then-else construct.
Gee I kinda thought that the looping construct was the
more elegant
>
>I tried teaching TECO to the "younger generation," but unfortunately they
>had no patience or desire for it. They agreed with the statement that TECO
>commands look a lot like "line noise."
Well I am a member of this younger generation (so young I never used
punch cards, but I do know how to load a 9 track tape drive) and I
have started using TECO. After all how can you NOT like a language
that discourages all this pascal-like structured programming. I got
interested in TECO because my Dad kept letting me that it is one of
the best editors ever.
I am using uteco2 (found at ftp://usc.edu/pub/teco) . It have a very
nice scope mode and a very nice initialzation macro.
Dirk Straka
In article <31lpcu$3...@paperboy.gsfc.nasa.gov>, concerning
"Alternate editor to VI", you wrote:
[...]
> You might want to check out ViM 2.0, available on
[...]
I'm using vim too and I'm very lucky with it. But just try this:
Edit a file containing more than one line,
go to the bottom and search for '$' (EOL) backwards (?$).
Result: Segmentation fault (core dumped) :-((
Another curiosity:
Editing my .cshrc with $TERM set to vt100 scrolling up (^U) sometimes
evokes a beep and output garbles. ^R seems to adjust it, but everytime
this beep sounds, vim *decrements* a numeric value in line 666!!
This decrement is absolutely correct - mathematically. :-) If decre-
mented to '0' it continues with '-1', '-2' ... :-))) or :-((( ??
Editing with $TERMCAP of iscreen, $TERM set to screen, everything's fine...
Happened on
- HP9000/700, HP9000/835 running HP-UX9.0x
- IS68K running 4.3BSD-UNIX
- 386/486 running Interactive Unix R3.2 V4.0
Any idea? Is there a fix? Any info about newer version of vim?
--
Greetinx, Dirk \////
( ~ o )
+---------------------------------------------------------oOO-(.)-OOo-----+
| Dirk....@DrB.Insel.DE | Ocean, n.: |
| Voice: +49.30.215081-16 | A body of water occupying two-thirds of |
| DoD#220361 - '90 VFR750F | a world made for man -- who has no gills. |
+--------------- cut here and you'll break your monitor ------------------+
Peter da Silva
Steve Willoughby <st...@ichips.intel.com> wrote:
> I couldn't find one, so I'm in the middle of writing my own variation of
> TECO with all the full-screen commands (interactive edit modes, etc)
> I can post it to the net when finished if there's enough interest.
YES!!!!
I would *love* a good teco for UNIX. There's a "UTECO" but it doesn't have
any screen stuff. I hope you're going to update it a little for the UNIX
environment (like, have it use TERMCAP, but for god's sake NOT TERMINFO).
Dr. James D. Freels
Newsgroups: comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.misc,comp.unix.programmer,comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.solaris,comp.unix.sys5.misc,comp.unix.user-friendly,alt.lang.teco
Path: stc06.CTD.ORNL.GOV!cs.utk.edu!gatech!swrinde!news.uh.edu!uuneo.neosoft.com!nmtigw!peter
From: pe...@nmti.com (Peter da Silva)
Sender: pe...@nmti.com (peter da silva)
Organization: Network/development platform support, NMTI
References: <316g43$q...@gbc.gbrownc.on.ca> <tjallen-04...@allen.mitre.org> <31t6c5$4...@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> <steve.7...@ichips.intel.com>
Distribution: inet
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 1994 17:35:24 GMT
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YES!!!!
For the record, I just got the dosemu to work under Linux. One of the things
I did was make sure some of my "essential" freeware programs worked. I
don't know who wrote tecoc.exe (a teco for MS-DOS), but it also works
under dosemu of Linux. That's one possibility!
David W. Barts
> [edited]
>For the record, I just got the dosemu to work under Linux. One of the things
>I did was make sure some of my "essential" freeware programs worked. I
>don't know who wrote tecoc.exe (a teco for MS-DOS), but it also works
>under dosemu of Linux. That's one possibility!
There is a TECO archive on usc.edu in the directory /pub/teco. It has
the source for TECO-C and several other TECOs. I normally use TECO-C.
TECO-C has some support for termcap which I don't use because it breaks
the standard way TECO handles newlines (instead of ^M^J pairs like TECO
always has used, they become Unix-style ^J newlines). TECO-C would
probably be a good place to start in adding a screen mode (since most
of the work is already done). No sense re-inventing the wheel.
--
David Barts N5JRN UW Civil Engineering, FX-10
dav...@ce.washington.edu Seattle, WA 98195
2056 GMT T: 71 F wind: WSW 0 gust 1 mph P: 1017 mbar
Steve Bellenot
(a repost from many years ago)
Addicted To Vi
(to the tune "Addicted To Love" by Robert Palmer)
Copyright 1989, by Chuck Musciano, Harris Corporation, FLA
You press the keys with no effect,
Your mode is not correct.
The screen blusrs, your fingers shake;
You forgot to press escape.
Can't insert, can't delete,
Cursor keys won't repeat.
You try to quit, but can't leave,
An extra "bang" is all you need.
You think it's neat to type an "a" or an "i"
Oh yeah?
You won't look at emacs, no you'd rather die
You know you're gonna have to face it;
You're addicted to vi!
You edit files one at a time;
That doesn't seem too out of line?
You don't think of keys to bind--
A meta key would blow your mind.
H, J, K, L? You're not annoyed?
Expressions must be a Joy!
Just press "f", or is it "t"?
Maybe "n", or just "g"?
You think it's neat to type an "a" or an "i"
Oh yeah?
You won't look at emacs, no you'd rather die
You know you're gonna have to face it;
You're addicted to vi!
Might as well face it,
You're addicted to vi!
You press the keys without effect,
Your life is now a wreck.
What a waste! Such a shame!
And all you have is vi to blame.
You think it's neat to type an "a" or an "i"
Oh yeah?
You won't look at emacs, no you'd rather die
You know you're gonna have to face it;
You're addicted to vi!
Might as well face it,
You're addicted to vi!
Patrick J. Horgan
|> think). In the end, BASIC compilers doesn't like that you type
|> commands, then add spaces until de cursor is column 1 of the next
|> line... I don't think that C++ compilers like that either... 8-)
Luckily C and C++ compilers cheerfully eat all the white space you can throw
at them:)
Patrick
--
These opinions are mine, and not Amdahl's (except by coincidence;).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
/ | | (\ \
| Patrick J. Horgan | Amdahl Corporation | \\ Have |
| pj...@eng.amdahl.com | 1250 East Arques Avenue | \\ _ Sword |
| Phone : (408)992-2779 | P.O. Box 3470 M/S 201 | \\/ Will |
| FAX : (408)773-0833 | Sunnyvale, CA 94088-3470 | _/\\ Travel |
\ | | \) /
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Juha Laiho
From the man page of tin-1.2PL2:
ENVIROMENT VARIABLES
...
VISUAL This variable has precedence over the default editor (i.e.
vi) that is used in all editing operations within tin
(i.e. posting 'w', replying 'rR', follow-ups 'fF' and bug
reports 'B').
--
Wolf a.k.a. Juha Laiho Helsinki, Finland
(Geek Code 1.0.1) GCS d? p c++ l++ u(-) e+ m+ s+/- n- h(*) f(?) !g w+ t- r y+
"...cancel my subscription to the resurrection!" (Jim Morrison)
Calvin Chi
Does anyone know any other text editor with "box editing featrue"
where you can cut/copy/paste a column easily ? or better yet, cut/copy
/paste from row a-b AND column c-d.
I had that in my apollo station. But I've got "upgraded" to a Sun
and lost that feature.
Calvin Chi
P.S I have logged into riceng.rice.edu (user: rhrsoft, passwd: rhrsoft).
I can see the listing but can't do anything with it.
In article <31af7c$3...@uuneo.neosoft.com>, jle...@dmccorp.com (Jerry
Leslie) wrote:
> 'ed' is a public domain editor patterned after DEC VMS' EDT editor,
> but with many extensions, such as box-mode cut-and-paste, editing of
> binary files, remote editing via ftp. It also includes keystroke-
> level journaling, so a system crash/power outage doesn't lose hours
> of editing.
>
> 'ed' runs on: MS-DOS, OS/2, Windows-NT, VMS VAX, VMS AXP. It runs on
> every Unix the co-author could get access to: AIX, HP-UX, OSF/1, NeXT,
> BSD/386, Linux, Ultrix, SunOS.
>
> 'ed' can be imbedded in elm and tin, where it's being used to write
> this post. 'ed' includes online help, for those who need some reminders.
> 'ed' should not be confused with the ed line-mode editor on some dialects
> of Unix. It can be installed with any name desired; e.g., edt, dwim
< ==== other stuff deleted ======>
> V1.5.7 of ED fixes many bugs and adds a few enhancements requested by you,
> the user group, of ED. The primary FTP site remains riceng.rice.edu,
> username rhrsoft, password rhrsoft. The DOS binary distribution and the
> source distribution (which builds everywhere) as also been installed on
> Simtel mirrors (Oak.Oakland.edu for example) in ZIP format as
> pub/msdos/editor/edrhr15*.zip for those of you needing anonymous FTP or a
> well known site. Below is the announcement from the Simtel update.
tim werner
This thread is silly. Real programmers use 'cat' and 'sed' for editing.
tw