Z88?
Roderick McCall
nice. THen about 2 years ao I tried to conatact Cambridge computer no response.
Did they ever sell the 'new machine' that was allegedly under development?
Rod McCall
--
===============================================================================
| Roderick McCall, 2nd Year Computing, Dundee University, Scotland |
| |
| Email addresses: rmc...@mcs.dunnd.ac.uk |
| rmc...@cix.compulink.co.uk |
===============================================================================
Mark Anderson
> Is the Z88 still in production, I remeber using it about 6 years ago and it was quite
> nice. THen about 2 years ao I tried to conatact Cambridge computer no response.
> Did they ever sell the 'new machine' that was allegedly under development?
> Rod McCall
I don't think the Z88 is still in production, but the Amstrad NC-100 is
_very_ similar!
Mark
Adam David
>Roderick McCall (rmc...@mcs.dundee.ac.uk) wrote:
>> Is the Z88 still in production, I remeber using it about 6 years ago and it was quite
>> nice. THen about 2 years ao I tried to conatact Cambridge computer no response.
Cambridge Computer moved to Scotland a few years back, they still exist.
>I don't think the Z88 is still in production, but the Amstrad NC-100 is
>_very_ similar!
About as similar as eggs and oranges. Let's just say the Z88 is more versatile
powerful and interesting, but people who like colour-coded keyboards and
rolodex gadgets might disagree.
--
Adam David <ad...@veda.is>
Mark Anderson
> ma...@csc.liv.ac.uk (Mark Anderson) writes:
> About as similar as eggs and oranges. Let's just say the Z88 is more versatile
> powerful and interesting, but people who like colour-coded keyboards and
> rolodex gadgets might disagree.
Sorry. I just would have thought that both machines using the Z80, both
being portable word processors (OK, different s/ware), both having BBC Basic,
etc would have made them similar.
I would have to agree about the keyboard, though. It's that "Noddy"
look which would really put me off getting one.
I must confess to being a little ignorant about the Z88, so in what way is
it more versatile and powerful than the NC100?
Mark.
Greg Harewood
Mark Anderson <ma...@csc.liv.ac.uk> wrote:
>Adam David (ad...@veda.is) wrote:
>> ma...@csc.liv.ac.uk (Mark Anderson) writes:
>
>> About as similar as eggs and oranges. Let's just say the Z88 is more versatile
>> powerful and interesting, but people who like colour-coded keyboards and
>> rolodex gadgets might disagree.
>I must confess to being a little ignorant about the Z88, so in what way is
>it more versatile and powerful than the NC100?
The Z88 is expandible. The NC100 has a key for each main application, the
Z88 has a front page with an application menu and a list of suspended
tasks paged out. The Z88's CLI can be operated from BASIC, so you can
control everything happening. The alarm can operate a cli script, which can
run a basic program. An eprom can have a boot file on to run in case of
a reset. The screen is larger than the NC100 (unless things have changed),
it's 8 lines by 96 characters; you can use up to 94 of those and the other
two show OS details; pipedream (the wp/speadsheet) uses the righthand
end of the screen as a bitmap for the current page, 1pixel per character
so you can see where you are. The left hand end of the screen displays a
consistent menu system which perates for all programs. You have full
control over the windowing system from basic.
It's SO well thought out. It's 5-6 years old and still wins in it's niche.
Q... so what are CC doing, why aren't they even marking this model and how
come the Z89 hasn't come out in all the 5 years we've been discussing
it's features?
The is still very much a niche for this sort of thing; A4, real keyboard
(the Z88 keyboard is very good to my mind, it's laid out beautifully,
types well, cleans well and takes coffee well), all the apps you need,
programmable in a language which you might ever see elsewhere, and under
200 pounds.
Key features missing in today's market...
1. Needs 512k+ of memory. Nothing at today's prices.
2. Would be nice if it could run C - a standard cross compiling environment
would be cool.
3. Needs Zmodem, kermit and vt100 native.
4. Needs transparent translation to other file formats.
5. Totally hi-res screen. (currently only up to 1/2 can be mapped - memory)
Anything else depends on the market it being aimed at. A mouse an other
trappings of the dsktop should be ignored, the Z88 is defines itself.
It needs communication; a card slot so you can choose between a cellnet
modem, a pager, a coupler for public phones, an ethernet card, a localtalk
connection or some such. For me it would be nice to be able to pop it on
the ethernet and have it run NFS and translate file formats on the fly
so I can plug it in, mount it, and just drag a file onto another drive
into MS Word format or whatever.
If CC really still exist then I don't understand. Why? They're not doing
anything. There was so much they could have done with this product. I wish
they'd sold it to a real computer company.
Greg
--
Greg Harewood
NMR Physics, UKC.
Richard Hesketh
>In article <CL9E5...@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk>,
>>I must confess to being a little ignorant about the Z88, so in what way is
>>it more versatile and powerful than the NC100?
>
>The Z88 is expandible.
Certainly is .. a PCMCIA slot would be nice though 8-).
>It's SO well thought out. It's 5-6 years old and still wins in it's niche.
>
>Q... so what are CC doing, why aren't they even marking this model and how
> come the Z89 hasn't come out in all the 5 years we've been discussing
> it's features?
The Z89 never made it although CC supposedly seriously thought about
it (I bet). What did make it out was Version 4.0 of the ROM.
This is available from the user's group for 24.95 pounds and
fixes many annoying bugs .. such as not being able to use 9600 BAUD
and XON/XOFF!
A third party disk drive is available .. a bit on the expensive side
but we are talking vertical markets here.
>Key features missing in today's market...
It needs better battery backup .. changing batteries without losing
data can be fun .. its a game of brinkmanship .. how long can you take
to fumble around with the AA cells before the capacitor fails ..
I've managed over 2 minutes with 1 Meg RAM card and EPROM cards
installed 8-).
>1. Needs 512k+ of memory. Nothing at today's prices.
You can upgrade the onboard RAM to 512k for 49.95 pounds from the user's
club. External 1 Meg RAM cards cost about 160 pounds.
>2. Would be nice if it could run C - a standard cross compiling environment
> would be cool.
>3. Needs Zmodem, kermit and vt100 native.
You can get an application on EPROM which will give you good comms
connections called ZTERM.
>4. Needs transparent translation to other file formats.
The RangerDisk disk drive gives some file translations.
>It needs communication; a card slot so you can choose between a cellnet
>modem, a pager, a coupler for public phones, an ethernet card, a localtalk
>connection or some such.
A wireless connection and base station would be nice. CC tried pushing
the Z88 as an extension of your PC or Macintosh .. for use on the
train, in libraries (silent if squiggy keyboard).
I plug my Z88 into the serial port of my X terminal, works a treat
with a small C program as the transfer agent 8-).
>If CC really still exist then I don't understand. Why? They're not doing
>anything. There was so much they could have done with this product. I wish
>they'd sold it to a real computer company.
Cambridge Computer have been relaunched! I cannot remember their new
name but it does not have "Computer" in the title .. which shows where
their emphasis is being placed! They still sell the Z88 but many
retailers have dropped it. Ranger Computers seem the only people
that do anything with Z88s (you can buy rugged and international
versions).
I like mine, especially when I can walk up to a phone box and rest
it neatly on that black shelf whilst I dial up the internet! 8-}
Richard
Paul Kinsler
: Key features missing in today's market...
: 1. Needs 512k+ of memory. Nothing at today's prices.
: 2. Would be nice if it could run C - a standard cross compiling environment
: would be cool.
: 3. Needs Zmodem, kermit and vt100 native.
: 4. Needs transparent translation to other file formats.
: 5. Totally hi-res screen. (currently only up to 1/2 can be mapped - memory)
: Anything else depends on the market it being aimed at. A mouse an other
: trappings of the dsktop should be ignored, the Z88 is defines itself.
: It needs communication; a card slot so you can choose between a cellnet
: modem, a pager, a coupler for public phones, an ethernet card, a localtalk
: connection or some such. For me it would be nice to be able to pop it on
: the ethernet and have it run NFS and translate file formats on the fly
: so I can plug it in, mount it, and just drag a file onto another drive
: into MS Word format or whatever.
: If CC really still exist then I don't understand. Why? They're not doing
: anything. There was so much they could have done with this product. I wish
: they'd sold it to a real computer company.
Actually, what it really needs is static ram. Or any other sort of r/w
nonvolatile memory (can they geta hard disk in there?). Anyone else ever loose
"vital" programs while it was sitting in your hand luggage on an international
flight because of battery failure?
------------------------------+soluble fish+------------------------------
"You people, you do not see the grandeur in the wind and stone and stars,
in the blood and fire and iron - but paint only the flowers."
Mark Crawford
: In article <50...@raven.ukc.ac.uk>, Greg Harewood <g...@ukc.ac.uk> wrote:
: >In article <CL9E5...@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk>,
: >1. Needs 512k+ of memory. Nothing at today's prices.
: You can upgrade the onboard RAM to 512k for 49.95 pounds from the user's
: club. External 1 Meg RAM cards cost about 160 pounds.
If someone could mail me the address of the users' club, I'd be delighted.
If someone could offer me a 512K card for less than UKP50, I'd be ecstatic.
Thanks in advance,
Mark
--
Mark Crawford School of TV & Imaging DJCA/Uni of Dundee Scotland
email mrcr...@dux.dundee.ac.uk ph 44.382.23261x334 fax 44.382.27304
======================================================================
Fabio Fontana
Anderson) writes:
# Adam David (ad...@veda.is) wrote:
# > ma...@csc.liv.ac.uk (Mark Anderson) writes:
#
# > About as similar as eggs and oranges. Let's just say the Z88 is more
versatile
# > powerful and interesting, but people who like colour-coded keyboards and
# > rolodex gadgets might disagree.
#
# Sorry. I just would have thought that both machines using the Z80, both
# being portable word processors (OK, different s/ware), both having BBC
Basic,
# etc would have made them similar.
#
# I would have to agree about the keyboard, though. It's that "Noddy"
# look which would really put me off getting one.
#
# I must confess to being a little ignorant about the Z88, so in what way is
# it more versatile and powerful than the NC100?
#
# Mark.
On the subject, can someone tell me their experiences with the NC200?
Fabio
Fabio Fontana
[...]
# A third party disk drive is available .. a bit on the expensive side
# but we are talking vertical markets here.
how much does it cost?
# >Key features missing in today's market...
#
# It needs better battery backup .. changing batteries without losing
# data can be fun .. its a game of brinkmanship .. how long can you take
# to fumble around with the AA cells before the capacitor fails ..
# I've managed over 2 minutes with 1 Meg RAM card and EPROM cards
# installed 8-).
How long do the batteries actually last though?
[...]
# Cambridge Computer have been relaunched! I cannot remember their new
# name but it does not have "Computer" in the title .. which shows where
# their emphasis is being placed! They still sell the Z88 but many
# retailers have dropped it. Ranger Computers seem the only people
# that do anything with Z88s (you can buy rugged and international
# versions).
Really, how much does it sell for? Adresses?
# I like mine, especially when I can walk up to a phone box and rest
# it neatly on that black shelf whilst I dial up the internet! 8-}
#
# Richard
What is the word processor like? Does it have a spellchecker like the NC*00?
Fabio
Richard Hesketh
Fabio Fontana <fab...@aifh.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>In article <78...@eagle.ukc.ac.uk>, r...@ukc.ac.uk (Richard Hesketh) writes:
>[...]
># A third party disk drive is available .. a bit on the expensive side
># but we are talking vertical markets here.
>
>how much does it cost?
269 pounds including VAT + UK delivery. Its an MSDOS compatible, 1.44 Meg
3.5 floppy drive, which plugs into the serial line and comes complete
with application on EPROM. It runs at 9600 BAUD and gave my Z88 a
new lease of life 8-).
>How long do the batteries actually last though?
Difficult to say, supposedly 20 hours but I mostly use mine on AC
adaptor or via an external 5 cell nicad battery pack (which gives
4 or 5 hours continuous use). The battery life is also said to
depend upon how much RAM you have in the card slots.
With the Z88 switched off a new set of alkalines are supposed to last
one year .. I have never tried this though 8-).
>Really, how much does it sell for? Adresses?
I cannot remember the price but Ranger's address is:
Ranger Computers Ltd
Ranger House,
2 Meeting Lane,
Duston,
Northampton,
NN5 6JG
United Kingdom
Phone: +44 604 589200
FAX: +44 604 589205
>What is the word processor like? Does it have a spellchecker like the NC*00?
Pipedream (which you can get for some other micros, notably the
Archimedes(sp?)) is a combined word processor (with some WYSIWYG output)
and spreadsheet and works very well. It has this a nice feature in that
you can see the layout of the page on the right hand side of the screen
as a small "map". It is simple to use (always a big plus in my opinion)
and uses the programmable printer driver to print out bold, italic,
underline, super and subscripts and device dependent fonts/characters.
There is a separate spellchecker called Spellmaster which costs around
50 pounds, it includes a separate text editor (which is very good as a
basic editor), a 60,000 word dictionary (which can be expanded). In
the text editor you can turn on spelling checking as you type (beep ..
wrong word!).
Richard
Scott Telford
> If CC really still exist then I don't understand. Why? They're not doing
> anything. There was so much they could have done with this product. I wish
> they'd sold it to a real computer company.
CC sold the rights to the Z88 to SCI (I think that's what they're
called), who were originally subcontracted to manufacture the Z88,
round about 1990, I think. As far as I know, SCI has done very little
to nothing about marketing or developing the Z88. There was an
inteview with Clive in Sinclair User a while back (1989?) where he
talked about a notebook PC-compatible project called Sterling, but
this was just before everybody else brought out notebook PCs - I
expect Clive decided the competition would drown it, so it was canned.
I doubt Cambridge Computer still exists as a company, since the Z88
was their only product.
--
Scott Telford, Edinburgh Parallel Computing Centre, <s.te...@ed.ac.uk>
University of Edinburgh, Mayfield Rd, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK. (+44 31 650 5978)
-- "We do want to tour again, we will tour again" - Kate Bush, Munich, 1980. --
jlr
>
> Cambridge Computer have been relaunched! I cannot remember their new
> name but it does not have "Computer" in the title .. which shows where
> their emphasis is being placed! They still sell the Z88 but many
> retailers have dropped it. Ranger Computers seem the only people
> that do anything with Z88s (you can buy rugged and international
> versions).
>
After these great descriptions of the Z88, this is good news!
Does anybody know the coords of Ranger Computers, or of any other company
that still sells this machine?
Thanks
Sebastien Bauer
Richard Hesketh
>I doubt Cambridge Computer still exists as a company, since the Z88
>was their only product.
Cambridge Computer Ltd has been relaunched as Cambridge Industries.
The Z88 was not their only product as they make and sell satellite products,
and it is these that they are now concentrating on (so I hear).
Richard
Adam David
>Sorry. I just would have thought that both machines using the Z80, both
>being portable word processors (OK, different s/ware), both having BBC Basic,
>etc would have made them similar.
Pipedream, being both word processor and spreadsheet is an obvious advantage.
I didn't realise the Amstrad machine had BBC basic. It seems that 3rd-party
applications are better catered for on the Z88. How expandable is the Amstrad
machine? The Z88 can easily handle 1.5 MB RAM, and even more with certain
restrictions. I'm sure there are more differences, but I really don't know
much about the Amstrad machine.
--
Adam David <ad...@veda.is>
Adam David
>1. Needs 512k+ of memory. Nothing at today's prices.
You can do this yourself, if you have soldering skills.
>5. Totally hi-res screen. (currently only up to 1/2 can be mapped - memory)
You mean bitmapped graphics? The hardware can support 640*64 pixels, but
the character-oriented design means you have to build the graphics using
custom characters. The pipedream map (BBC basic graphics area?) is limited
to 256*64 pixels. If the full size of this map is allocated, it is still
possible to use a 512*64 pixel graphics area in another application. If
the Pipedream map area is limited to a smaller width, there is enough space
for another application to have a full 640*64 pixel display. Each application
using such a display will keep its own pointer to the HIRES0 font and update
the screen if necessary after being woken up. Therefore multiple applications
can use a full graphics screen. This is fairly simple so long as the Pipedream
map does not exceed 128 pixels width, but is just as possible though a little
more complicated with wider pipedream maps. It might conflict with the BASIC
patch that provides graphics support, but that is in need of a rewrite anyway
(at least it only used to work on English 3.0 ROMs or equivalent).
--
Adam David <ad...@veda.is>
Mark Anderson
> --
> Adam David <ad...@veda.is>
To be honest, I didn't realise you could still buy the Z88, otherwise I would
have got one of those in a flash when I needed a portable. The Amstrad machine
also has a spreadsheet. The Amstrad is expandable up to at least 1Mb through
a PCMCIA port. I think the Z88 is better catered for 3rd party, and as was
pointed out to me, it is more expandable - having three expansion slots. The
only ports that the Amstrad has are a serial port, parallel port and the PCMCIA
port.
Mark.