Free Updates ? (Was Re: Questions about HPUX 8.0, X11R4, HP policy)
Toerless Eckert
...
> Most software updates include new commands, new facilities and performance
> or compatibility improvements which are worth actually paying for. And
> remember that much of the code in HP-UX wasn't actually written by HP
> at all. When was the last time you had to debug a two million line package
> you didn't write?
>
>>It is unfair.
>
> No, it isn't. Name any commercial vendor who will provide on-going
> support and updates completely free of charge.
On a demonstration at out university the european director of NeXT told
us, that software updates of NeXT's operating system are for free except
for handling charges for a lifetime of every NeXT system that you buy.
I don't know how the'll manage to do this, and as i don't normally read
comp.sys.next nor do have other experience with NeXT, this is just
a reflection of what i've been told. And "No", it seems to be a real
"handling fee" only, unlike SMI's $995 offer for OpenWindows, as you
may copy you're new NeXT OS from a friend who has got the media !!
Is this really true ?
--
Toerless Eckert | /C=de/A=dbp/P=uni-erlangen/OU=informatik/S=eckert
50GB/M limit: NO MERCY | X.400 ^ Internet> eck...@informatik.uni-erlangen.de
Kenneth K.F. Lui
>us, that software updates of NeXT's operating system are for free except
>for handling charges for a lifetime of every NeXT system that you buy.
>a reflection of what i've been told. And "No", it seems to be a real
>"handling fee" only, unlike SMI's $995 offer for OpenWindows, as you
>may copy you're new NeXT OS from a friend who has got the media !!
Yes, it's true. NeXT owners are fortunate enough to receive
updates to NeXTstep and any bundled programs for the cost of
media. One will pay roughly $200 or so. Anyone who owns a NeXT
has the right to use all items that are included in Extended
editions (those who bought NeXTstations with the 105MB disk who
can't possibly fit all of NeXTstep 2.0 can, as an option, go to
anyone who has the Extended Edition and copy it on OD, magnetic
disk, or floppy disk, as well as purchase it from NeXT). Source
code is a separate item and costs roughly $125 from a separate
vendor because most of what's out there is from GNU. Word has it
that NeXT will make _almost_ all source available: the interface
builder, the Mach kernel, its <Objective-C, C++, and C> compiler,
_but_not_AppKit_ from what I've heard. I don't know for sure,
since this was from comp.sys.next, but I have doubts about the
Objective-C being included because it's from StepStone.
NeXT is no different from Apple in the sense of distributing the
operating system for free--essentially; however, Apple makes you
pay for documentation while NeXT provides it online.
Ken
______________________________________________________________________________
tem...@ecst.csuchico.edu, tem...@walleye.ecst.csuchico.edu,|Kenneth K.F. Lui|
tem...@sutro.sfsu.edu, tem...@wet.UUCP |________________|
Mark Riordan
On a demonstration at out university the european director of NeXT told
>us, that software updates of NeXT's operating system are for free except
>for handling charges for a lifetime of every NeXT system that you buy.
My NeXT salesman told me (in October) that there is indeed a license fee for
the 1.0 -> 2.0 upgrade, not just a media fee. Something to do with additional
royalties to AT&T. But the upgrade is priced at $195 list for license + optical
disk media. That's about the cost of just an optical, so I wonder if he was wrong.
Anyway, the salesman said that he would look into a deal to unbundle the
license fee part, since we really don't need all those copies of the optical.
Mark Riordan Michigan State Univ. rior...@clvax1.cl.msu.edu
Robert Minich
| ............. Name any commercial vendor who will provide on-going
| support and updates completely free of charge.
I haven't paid a penny for system software since buying my Mac in 1984.
The "support" isn't great but the price is right.
--
|_ /| | Robert Minich |
|\'o.O' | Oklahoma State University| "I'm a newcomer here, but does the
|=(___)= | min...@d.cs.okstate.edu | net ever lay any argument to rest?"
| U | - Ackphtth | -- dan herrick
Michael D Mellinger
I haven't paid a penny for system software since buying my Mac in 1984.
The "support" isn't great but the price is right.
--
I think 10 years of system software support is built into Apple's
pricing scheme for new computer purchases and hardware upgrades.
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
-Mike
Eric P. Scott
tem...@walleye.UUCP (Kenneth K.F. Lui) writes:
>NeXT is no different from Apple in the sense of distributing the
>operating system for free--essentially; however, Apple makes you
>pay for documentation while NeXT provides it online.
NeXT is charging us $65 per "old" machine as a license fee
("right to copy") to upgrade from 1.0a to 2.0--they wouldn't let
us order one copy of the media, we had to order N-1 additional
licenses.
Apple's system software has been available by anonymous FTP
since version 6.0.5 "for free."
-=EPS=-
Gary Lang
>pricing scheme for new computer purchases and hardware upgrades.
>Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Then we ought to get 20 years no?
Sorry I couldn't resist either. It's a joke; I am convinced that the
cube is the best bargain going in computers today.
Actually another ripost would be "well, you get what you pay for"...
--
Gary T. Lang (415)332-2344 x2702
Autodesk, Inc.
Sausalito, CA.
MCI: 370-0730
Kenneth K.F. Lui
>NeXT is charging us $65 per "old" machine as a license fee
>("right to copy") to upgrade from 1.0a to 2.0--they wouldn't let
>us order one copy of the media, we had to order N-1 additional
>licenses.
>
this thread said it was for AT&T stuff. If this is the case,
does it mean some AT&T tools are included...like ksh?
>Apple's system software has been available by anonymous FTP
>since version 6.0.5 "for free."
>
Even before 6.0.5, people could go into "reasonable Apple
dealers" and get a copy of the new system software on disk.
Dealers don't provide disks unless you pay for them, of course.
Toerless Eckert
> disk, or floppy disk, as well as purchase it from NeXT). Source
> code is a separate item and costs roughly $125 from a separate
> vendor because most of what's out there is from GNU. Word has it
> that NeXT will make _almost_ all source available: the interface
> builder, the Mach kernel, its <Objective-C, C++, and C> compiler,
....
We've been told by the NeXT people, that source for the Mach OS will not
be available from NeXT, which, in my opinion is a bad move from NeXT.
The argumentation was something like "we don't want people to tinker around
in the kernel, probably making it so incompatible that sone software won't
run anymore". I don't think this argument counts for academic sites,
who would not release what they've changed, but rather use it for education.
I for once don't know another real life system that uses mach, so the NeXT
would be quite a good system for the purpose of looking into a mach
system.
Sorry if this has been discussed already in this group, i don't normally
read it. Can someone comment on this ?
Izumi Ohzawa
>
>My NeXT salesman told me (in October) that there is indeed a license fee for
>the 1.0 -> 2.0 upgrade, not just a media fee.
This is correct. I got the following over the phone from NeXT
TeleBusiness:
N5516 Software Release 2.0 Upgrade License
Price for this varies from $50 - $65 for educational institutions,
so you have to contact your NeXT rep for that.
But, note that the price for 2.0 Extended on OpticalDisk is
only $15 more than the BLANK Optical Disk (for UC Berkeley Dept'l
purchase). This means that it will cost more for you
if you buy blank OD's and separate No-media 2.0 licenses from
NeXT.
Izumi Ohzawa, iz...@violet.berkeley.edu
Ronald C.F. Antony
price tag though. This is most probably due to the AT&T licencing
required to distribute the source...
Anyone got 10k$ to spend?
Ronald
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists
in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the
unreasonable man." G.B. Shaw | r...@cs.brown.edu or ant...@browncog.bitnet
Chuck Herrick
no.
--
_-_-_-_-_
-_-_-_-_-Chuck Herrick <cnh...@calvin.tamu.edu>
The opinions expressed herein are mine and are in no way attributed
to any of the many people for whom I work. Who they are is irrelevant.
Eric P. Scott
iz...@fugitive.berkeley.edu (Izumi Ohzawa) writes:
>N5516 Software Release 2.0 Upgrade License
>
>Price for this varies from $50 - $65 for educational institutions,
UPDATE:
When we first called NeXT, they quoted us $65. The P.O. on file
shows we actually paid $42 each.
MEA CULPA:
It wasn't fair for me to compare Apple's free 6.0.5/6.0.7 updates
with NeXT; I should have compared A/UX, whose 2.0 upgrades under
comparable terms cost us FIVE times as much as NeXT's--and that's
not including Apple's X Window System upgrade fee (NextStep, of
course, being bundled with the NeXT Software Release).
-=EPS=-
--
I really don't know why we're paying Apple for X. We don't use
it, it's not the native windowing system for *any* SFSU CS machine
that runs it, we don't split X client/server across platforms, we
have no X terminals, and no plans to acquire any.
Bob Sutterfield
the NeXT would be quite a good system for the purpose of looking
into a mach system.
Several companies sell "real life" systems running Mach. BBN ships
Mach on their Butterfly, as does Encore on their MultiMax. MtXinu has
been selling it to folks with VAXen and Sun-3s. And, beginning in
late January, they'll ship a binary distribution for AT-bus 386 boxes.
That's just off the top of my head, and I likely forgot some.
As far as I know, all the other Mach vendors besides NeXT at least
offer the option of a source license, albeit for a hefty fee if you're
not an educational institution.
Izumi Ohzawa
b...@MorningStar.Com (Bob Sutterfield) writes:
>
>As far as I know, all the other Mach vendors besides NeXT at least
>offer the option of a source license, albeit for a hefty fee if you're
>not an educational institution.
The following is from a price list generated by NeXT for
UC Berkeley departmental purchases (dated Sep 28, 1990 15:52):
Product# Desc List Price UCB Price
N5514 NeXT 2.0 GNU Source Code $150 (Q1) $98
on Floppies
(not in Fall 90 list prices)
N5515 NeXT 2.0 Mach Source Release $10,000 (Q1) $5,000
on Floppies
(not in Fall 90 list prices)
The fee is quite hefty even for the educational institution, but
at least NeXT seems to be offering it.
Izumi Ohzawa, iz...@violet.berkeley.edu