Let's compare hobbies!

[Thomas E.]

Alan Baker, MRP racing, May 1 to July 21 2015

May 30, OW Race 1, 21 minutes
May 31, OW Race 2, 20 minutes
May 31, OW Race 2, 20 minutes

June 27, OW Race 1, 21 minutes
June 28, OW Race 2, DNS
June 28, OW Race 3, 21 minutes

July 18, OW Race 1, No Show!
July 19, OW Race 2, No Show!
July 19, OW Race 3, No Show! (Afraid of that car?)

Total time driving in competition 1:43

Tom Elam, Flying, May 1 to July 21 2015

Sortie Date Type Start End Hours Pilot
---------- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----------------
5/6/2015 C172 1200.8 1203.8 3.0 Elam , Thomas E
5/7/2015 C172 1203.8 1206.9 3.1 Elam , Thomas E
5/8/2015 C182 2487.1 2487.9 0.8 Elam , Thomas E
5/12/2015 C172 1209.4 1210.4 1.0 Elam , Thomas E
5/12/2015 C172 1210.4 1211.6 1.2 Elam , Thomas E
5/13/2015 C172 1211.6 1212.1 0.5 Elam , Thomas E
5/13/2015 C172 1212.1 1212.8 0.7 Elam , Thomas E
5/13/2015 C172 1212.8 1213.3 0.5 Elam , Thomas E
5/13/2015 C172 1213.3 1213.9 0.6 Elam , Thomas E
5/13/2015 C172 1213.9 1214.6 0.7 Elam , Thomas E
5/13/2015 C172 1214.6 1215.2 0.6 Elam , Thomas E
5/13/2015 C172 1215.2 1215.6 0.4 Elam , Thomas E
5/13/2015 C172 1215.6 1216.7 1.1 Elam , Thomas E
5/13/2015 C172 1216.7 1218.0 1.3 Elam , Thomas E
5/14/2015 C172 1218.0 1218.4 0.4 Elam , Thomas E
5/14/2015 C172 1218.4 1219.1 0.7 Elam , Thomas E
5/14/2015 C172 1219.1 1219.8 0.7 Elam , Thomas E
5/14/2015 C172 1219.8 1220.5 0.7 Elam , Thomas E
5/14/2015 C172 1220.5 1221.2 0.7 Elam , Thomas E
5/14/2015 C172 1221.2 1222.0 0.8 Elam , Thomas E
5/14/2015 C172 1222.0 1222.4 0.4 Elam , Thomas E
5/19/2015 C172 1222.4 1225.9 3.5 Elam , Thomas E
5/21/2015 C172 1225.9 1229.0 3.1 Elam , Thomas E
5/22/2015 C182 2488.9 2491.0 2.1 Elam , Thomas E
5/27/2015 C172 1229.0 1230.3 1.3 Elam , Thomas E
5/27/2015 C172 1230.3 1232.8 2.5 Elam , Thomas E
5/27/2015 C172 1232.8 1234.2 1.4 Elam , Thomas E
5/29/2015 C172 1235.0 1238.4 3.4 Elam , Thomas E
6/2/2015 C172 1239.6 1241.0 1.4 Elam , Thomas E
6/2/2015 C172 1241.0 1243.1 2.1 Elam , Thomas E
6/2/2015 C172 1243.1 1244.5 1.4 Elam , Thomas E
6/4/2015 C182 2497.9 2499.0 1.1 Elam , Thomas E
6/4/2015 C182 2499.0 2501.5 2.5 Elam , Thomas E
6/4/2015 C182 2501.5 2502.1 0.6 Elam , Thomas E
6/4/2015 C182 2502.1 2503.0 0.9 Elam , Thomas E
6/6/2015 C182 2506.2 2506.9 0.7 Elam , Thomas E
6/6/2015 C182 2506.9 2507.7 0.8 Elam , Thomas E
6/6/2015 C182 2507.7 2508.3 0.6 Elam , Thomas E
6/6/2015 C182 2508.3 2509.0 0.7 Elam , Thomas E
6/6/2015 C182 2509.0 2509.7 0.7 Elam , Thomas E
6/6/2015 C182 2509.7 2510.6 0.9 Elam , Thomas E
6/6/2015 C182 2510.6 2511.1 0.5 Elam , Thomas E
6/9/2015 C182 2511.1 2511.8 0.7 Elam , Thomas E
6/9/2015 C182 2511.8 2514.5 2.7 Elam , Thomas E
6/9/2015 C172 2514.5 2515.3 0.8 Elam , Thomas E
6/12/2015 C172 1244.5 1245.3 0.8 Elam , Thomas E
6/12/2015 C172 1245.3 1247.4 2.1 Elam , Thomas E
6/12/2015 C172 1247.4 1248.1 0.7 Elam , Thomas E
6/13/2015 C172 4177.0 4177.9 0.9 Elam , Thomas E
6/13/2015 C172 4177.9 4179.0 1.1 Elam , Thomas E
6/13/2015 C172 4179.0 4179.7 0.7 Elam , Thomas E
6/17/2015 C172 1248.1 1249.7 1.6 Elam , Thomas E
6/17/2015 C172 1249.7 1252.4 2.7 Elam , Thomas E
6/17/2015 C172 1252.4 1253.7 1.3 Elam , Thomas E
6/18/2015 C172 4185.2 4186.6 1.4 Elam , Thomas E
6/18/2015 C172 4186.6 4187.1 0.5 Elam , Thomas E
6/18/2015 C172 4187.1 4188.7 1.6 Elam , Thomas E
6/18/2015 C172 4188.7 4189.1 0.4 Elam , Thomas E
6/18/2015 C172 4189.1 4190.4 1.3 Elam , Thomas E
6/19/2015 C172 4190.4 4191.8 1.4 Elam , Thomas E
6/19/2015 C172 4191.8 4194.2 2.4 Elam , Thomas E
6/19/2015 C172 4194.2 4195.6 1.4 Elam , Thomas E
6/20/2015 C172 4195.6 4197.2 1.6 Elam , Thomas E
6/23/2015 C172 4197.2 4197.5 0.3 Elam , Thomas E
6/23/2015 C172 4197.5 4198.1 0.6 Elam , Thomas E
6/23/2015 C172 4198.1 4198.7 0.6 Elam , Thomas E
6/24/2015 C182 2525.0 2526.2 1.2 Elam , Thomas E
6/24/2015 C182 2526.2 2528.9 2.7 Elam , Thomas E
6/24/2015 C182 2528.9 2530.0 1.1 Elam , Thomas E
6/25/2015 C182 2530.0 2531.4 1.4 Elam , Thomas E
6/25/2015 C182 2531.4 2533.6 2.2 Elam , Thomas E
6/25/2015 C182 2533.6 2534.8 1.2 Elam , Thomas E
6/27/2015 C172 4199.4 4200.7 1.3 Elam , Thomas E
6/27/2015 C172 4200.7 4201.6 0.9 Elam , Thomas E
6/27/2015 C172 4201.6 4202.7 1.1 Elam , Thomas E
6/30/2015 C172 4203.6 4205.7 2.1 Elam , Thomas E
6/30/2015 C172 4205.7 4207.3 1.6 Elam , Thomas E
7/10/2015 C172 4209.0 4210.0 1.0 Elam , Thomas E
7/10/2015 C172 4210.0 4212.2 2.2 Elam , Thomas E
7/10/2015 C172 4212.2 4213.2 1.0 Elam , Thomas E
7/11/2015 C182 2537.7 2539.1 1.4 Elam , Thomas E
7/11/2015 C182 2539.1 2539.5 0.4 Elam , Thomas E
7/11/2015 C182 2539.5 2542.3 2.8 Elam , Thomas E
7/11/2015 C182 2542.3 2542.7 0.4 Elam , Thomas E
7/11/2015 C182 2542.7 2543.8 1.1 Elam , Thomas E
7/15/2015 C182 2546.3 2547.1 0.8 Elam , Thomas E
7/15/2015 C182 2547.1 2547.7 0.6 Elam , Thomas E
7/15/2015 C182 2547.7 2548.3 0.6 Elam , Thomas E
7/15/2015 C182 2548.3 2548.8 0.5 Elam , Thomas E
7/15/2015 C182 2548.8 2549.4 0.6 Elam , Thomas E
7/15/2015 C182 2549.4 2550.0 0.6 Elam , Thomas E
7/15/2015 C182 2550.0 2550.6 0.6 Elam , Thomas E
7/15/2015 C182 2550.6 2551.1 0.5 Elam , Thomas E
7/16/2015 C182 2551.1 2551.7 0.6 Elam , Thomas E
7/16/2015 C182 2551.7 2552.4 0.7 Elam , Thomas E
7/16/2015 C182 2552.4 2553.1 0.7 Elam , Thomas E
7/16/2015 C182 2553.1 2553.7 0.6 Elam , Thomas E
7/16/2015 C182 2553.7 2554.6 0.9 Elam , Thomas E
7/16/2015 C182 2554.6 2555.6 1.0 Elam , Thomas E
7/16/2015 C182 2555.6 2556.1 0.5 Elam , Thomas E
7/20/2015 C182 2556.1 2557.1 1.0 Elam , Thomas E
7/20/2015 C182 2557.1 2560.1 3.0 Elam , Thomas E
7/20/2015 C182 2560.1 2561.2 1.1 Elam , Thomas E
7/21/2015 C182 2561.2 2562.2 1.0 Elam , Thomas E
7/21/2015 C182 2562.2 2566.0 3.8 Elam , Thomas E
7/21/2015 C182 2566.0 2566.7 0.7 Elam , Thomas E


Total air operations 106
Total Hobbs hours 129.2

Before you get all out of sorts about the ending and beginning Hobbs times not matching these are in some cases different aircraft. In particular, there are 2 172's flown, one much older than the other. The report is taken directly off the CAP mission records system. And no, you cannot get access unless you are a CAP member and CAP pilot.

[Alan Baker]

On 2015-07-22 02:24:00 +0000, Thomas E. said:

> Alan Baker, MRP racing, May 1 to July 21 2015
>
> May 30, OW Race 1, 21 minutes

Plus practice and qualifying...

<http://www.sccbc.net/racers/results/?mylaps=type,run,runid,3528296>
<http://www.sccbc.net/racers/results/?mylaps=type,run,runid,3528297>

...but if you went looking for this, you knew that and omitted it
deliberately...

...because they're right there on the same page...

<http://www.sccbc.net/racers/results/?mylaps=type,event,eventid,1152319>

...right, Liar-boy?

> May 31, OW Race 2, 20 minutes
> May 31, OW Race 2, 20 minutes

Plus qualifying.

>
> June 27, OW Race 1, 21 minutes

Plus practice and qualifying.

> June 28, OW Race 2, DNS
> June 28, OW Race 3, 21 minutes

Plus qualifying.

But the car wasn't running right, so I did miss the second race.

We discussed this already, Liar-boy: I had an air leak that made it run
lean, remember? It was when you tried to show how smart you were about
carbs and got your ass handed to you.

>
> July 18, OW Race 1, No Show!
> July 19, OW Race 2, No Show!
> July 19, OW Race 3, No Show! (Afraid of that car?)

What car, Liar-boy? What car would I be afraid of: my own?

Why?

The simple fact is that right before the weekend (the Thursday before)
I did a dyno session and after the session discovered bearing material
in the oil. That automatically meant that I'd be missing the weekend.

>
> Total time driving in competition 1:43

Total driving time, more like 3:40 (5 20 minute sessions, give or take.

Why would I care?

This is all more evasion on your part.

:-)

[Thomas E.]

None of my flying was "practice." The 22 May flight was with an instructor check pilot, and was needed to keep my CAP instrument pilot status active. That was not "practice." I did not need to "practice" to get ready to perform that checkride.

Bearing material, huh? Another excuse, no proof supplied. Liar until proven innocent.

[-hh]

On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 10:24:01 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
> [...]
> Total ... hours 129.2


Where "hours" is the only metric of goodness you can think of?

Or is it merely the one which is of greatest benefit to your attempt
to define yourself as the "Winner"?


-hh

[Walter Myer]

On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 10:24:01 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

> Alan Baker, MRP racing, May 1 to July 21 2015
>

>

> July 18, OW Race 1, No Show!
> July 19, OW Race 2, No Show!
> July 19, OW Race 3, No Show! (Afraid of that car?)

IT claimed IT "was racing".

IT probably DNQ

[Alan Baker]

And racing isn't flying. Wow.

And this is all still evasion on your part.

>
> Bearing material, huh? Another excuse, no proof supplied. Liar until
> proven innocent.

Yup. Shiny, non-ferrous metal inside the oil filter. Would you like video?

:-)

[Alan Baker]

I would have been racing if I hadn't found bearing material in the oil filter.

>
> IT probably DNQ

LOL

[Thomas E.]

No, the DNS attendees are listed. I think if you show up you qualify as long as the car meets the class specs, passes the safety inspection, and can actually make it around the track. Some of those starters are WAY behind the fastest time.

If he has bearing material in the oil filter that is likely going to mean an engine teardown and rebuild. $$$$$! Going to be interesting to see how long the car is out of action.

[Thomas E.]

Not only the flying hours metric, also total days and hours devoted to program participation. For every hour flown I give about another hour or so for my own flight prep and coordinating 35-40% of the state's total flying hours. That's about 650-750 annual flying hours. On the average flying day I leave the house at 7:30 am and get home at 4-5 pm. I just spent most of the morning putting my own August flights into the scheduling system that spit out the table above plus coordinating this month's schedule and next with law enforcement. No flying for me today, but tomorrow it starts up again.

For August I am coordinating pilot and aircrew participation for 87 Law enforcement assignment requests. I doubt that Alan has any volunteer management job at the race course. He probably just shows and goes.

My "winnings" are the satisfaction I get from both my own flying and the program management dimension. The effort involves not only my own pilot skills, but managing relationships with our own crews and our law enforcement partner.

A race weekend a month over the summer? Whoopee. Glad he enjoys it.

[Alan Baker]

On 2015-07-22 15:26:09 +0000, Thomas E. said:

> On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 7:46:36 AM UTC-4, Walter Myer wrote:
>> On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 10:24:01 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
>>> Alan Baker, MRP racing, May 1 to July 21 2015
>>>
>>
>>>
>>> July 18, OW Race 1, No Show!
>>> July 19, OW Race 2, No Show!
>>> July 19, OW Race 3, No Show! (Afraid of that car?)
>>
>> IT claimed IT "was racing".
>>
>> IT probably DNQ
>
> No, the DNS attendees are listed. I think if you show up you qualify as
> long as the car meets the class specs, passes the safety inspection,
> and can actually make it around the track. Some of those starters are
> WAY behind the fastest time.

Yup.

That's the nature of club racing.

>
> If he has bearing material in the oil filter that is likely going to
> mean an engine teardown and rebuild. $$$$$! Going to be interesting to
> see how long the car is out of action.

What's already "interesting" is your attitude.

:-)

[Alan Baker]

On 2015-07-22 16:06:17 +0000, Thomas E. said:

> On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 6:46:40 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
>> On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 10:24:01 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> Total ... hours 129.2
>>
>>
>> Where "hours" is the only metric of goodness you can think of?
>> Or is it merely the one which is of greatest benefit to your attempt>
>> to define yourself as the "Winner"?
>>
>> -hh
>
> Not only the flying hours metric, also total days and hours devoted to
> program participation. For every hour flown I give about another hour
> or so for my own flight prep and coordinating 35-40% of the state's
> total flying hours. That's about 650-750 annual flying hours. On the
> average flying day I leave the house at 7:30 am and get home at 4-5 pm.
> I just spent most of the morning putting my own August flights into the
> scheduling system that spit out the table above plus coordinating this
> month's schedule and next with law enforcement. No flying for me today,
> but tomorrow it starts up again.
>
> For August I am coordinating pilot and aircrew participation for 87 Law
> enforcement assignment requests. I doubt that Alan has any volunteer
> management job at the race course. He probably just shows and goes.

As usual, you're doubts are utterly unfounded, Liar-boy.

Despite not having a car to race, I spent my weekend at the track...
...volunteering.

:-)

[Thomas E.]

Prove it liar-boy, otherwise it's just your word.

Here's my proof that I have held several state and local squadron level CAP leadership offices:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxuJGTDTmSZ1MkllamV0RmJPZ0E/view?usp=sharing

Now before you get all bent out shape on the dates, the short 2011 stint as DoF was to fill in that office position that was vacant at the time for National Headquarters paperwork and periodic audit purposes. The short 2011 wing level DO appointment was a clerical error. I never held that position at the Indiana HQ level. As soon as I saw the appointment show up I had it removed, but it's still on the records.

I have rotated through 3 DoF assignments, one local and two at the state level, giving up the last one in April 2013 because of the Counterdrug Director appointment earlier that year. Note that I am still on the Finance Committee, and serve as Assistant Finance Officer. Basically that means I watch the monthly statements and sign checks. I have recruited my replacement for Counterdrug, and plan to rotate into another state level position next fiscal year.

And, BTW, I was recruited by state and local leadership for all of these positions except the first local squadron DoF position.

What are your leadership positions at SCCBC? Don't see your name listed anywhere, but maybe the site is out of date? There are 3 open positions listed on the website, go for it!

[Thomas E.]

What's interesting is to see how long it takes you get an old, simple, engine rebuilt. Good thing you caught it when you did or it could have been a lot more expensive. Let us know what they found on the teardown. Likely a crankshaft main or con-rod. Maybe it would have helped if you put oil in it.

[Alan Baker]

It is what it is, Liar-boy.

> Here's my proof that I have held several state and local squadron level
> CAP leadership offices:
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxuJGTDTmSZ1MkllamV0RmJPZ0E/view?usp=sharing
>
> Now before you get all bent out shape on the dates, the short 2011
> stint as DoF was to fill in that office position that was vacant at the
> time for National Headquarters paperwork and periodic audit purposes.
> The short 2011 wing level DO appointment was a clerical error. I never
> held that position at the Indiana HQ level. As soon as I saw the
> appointment show up I had it removed, but it's still on the records.
>
> I have rotated through 3 DoF assignments, one local and two at the
> state level, giving up the last one in April 2013 because of the
> Counterdrug Director appointment earlier that year. Note that I am
> still on the Finance Committee, and serve as Assistant Finance Officer.
> Basically that means I watch the monthly statements and sign checks. I
> have recruited my replacement for Counterdrug, and plan to rotate into
> another state level position next fiscal year.
>
> And, BTW, I was recruited by state and local leadership for all of
> these positions except the first local squadron DoF position.
> What are your leadership positions at SCCBC? Don't see your name listed
> anywhere, but maybe the site is out of date? There are 3 open positions
> listed on the website, go for it!

Where did I say I was in a "leadership position", Liar-boy?

And have you yet come up with an answer about why you didn't list all my times?

And have you come up with any explanation of why this thread exists
other than to evade the questions you so very much don't want to answer?

"How does you simply demonstrating knowledge of the mere EXISTENCE of a
settlement involving Tyson Foods prove anything about what SIDE you
were on?"

Well, Liar-boy?

[Alan Baker]

On 2015-07-22 22:38:15 +0000, Thomas E. said:

> On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 12:36:23 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2015-07-22 15:26:09 +0000, Thomas E. said:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 7:46:36 AM UTC-4, Walter Myer wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 10:24:01 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
>>>>> Alan Baker, MRP racing, May 1 to July 21 2015
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> July 18, OW Race 1, No Show!
>>>>> July 19, OW Race 2, No Show!
>>>>> July 19, OW Race 3, No Show! (Afraid of that car?)
>>>>
>>>> IT claimed IT "was racing".
>>>>
>>>> IT probably DNQ
>>>
>>> No, the DNS attendees are listed. I think if you show up you qualify
>>> as> > long as the car meets the class specs, passes the safety
>>> inspection,> > and can actually make it around the track. Some of those
>>> starters are> > WAY behind the fastest time.
>>
>> Yup.
>>
>> That's the nature of club racing.
>>
>>>
>>> If he has bearing material in the oil filter that is likely going to> >
>>> mean an engine teardown and rebuild. $$$$$! Going to be interesting to>
>>> > see how long the car is out of action.
>>
>> What's already "interesting" is your attitude.
>>
>> :-)
>
> What's interesting is to see how long it takes you get an old, simple,
> engine rebuilt.

Well while the engine might be simple, very little of it is old. Pretty
much all the parts for it are available in new, updated forms. New
block, new crank, forged connecting rods, and so on. I'll have it out
of the car tomorrow and my engine guy will be looking at it Thursday or
Friday (after he gets back in town).

> Good thing you caught it when you did or it could have been a lot more
> expensive. Let us know what they found on the teardown. Likely a
> crankshaft main or con-rod. Maybe it would have helped if you put oil
> in it.

There was plenty of oil in it, Liar-boy. Trust a simpleton about this
stuff such as yourself to think the only possible problem was low oil
level. Next thing you know you'll be telling me to check the dipstick...

...that a dry sump engine doesn't have. :-)

The most likely scenario that I've been given so far is that when the
engine was running lean and hot, a very small amount of detonation (and
the concomitant cylinder over-pressurization) probably resulted in a
journal being forced through the oil film when the oil was also very
thin (these cars typically idle back to the pits after a race with oil
pressures under 10psi).

[Walter Myer]

IT wouldn't know. Just look at the bullshit IT'S handing out. Jack-off of all trades..... We've been down these roads before.

[Thomas E.]

I never said you were in a leadership position at the track. That was the whole point. It takes time and effort, lots of it, to organize complex and potentially dangerous activities. Self-centered egotists like you seldom lead, all you want to do is play and have fun.

As for the settlement, I offered to give you the contact information for the MD&D person I reported to in Boston. You refused to call him. You are the one who is being evasive. I absolutely cannot give you access to any of the hundreds of pages of confidential Tyson business records we obtained in discovery or any of my work, or MD&D's work. You have apparently never worked on expert opinion, a tort case, been deposed, or testified.

[Thomas E.]

In that case you will find significant detonation signs on the piston tops

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=detonation+signs+on+piston&id=304859781A55876180270E8751845E683A582900&FORM=IQFRBA

Minor detonation would not likely cause a main bearing or rod bearing failure in an otherwise healthy engine. Major detonation that damages pistons, valves and heads could. In fact, detonating engines have been known to burn holes in piston tops before the bottom end is damaged by the pistons' metal fragments that get into the oil. Your "minor detonation" theory is bunk, and shows just how little you know about your car. The very fact that you were "given" that scenario confirms you don't know much about engines, nor does the person that told you that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking

If the engine is idling it's probably not going to detonate, and cylinder pressures are low. Try advancing the timing and try to make it detonate at idle. You will hear the characteristic pinging if it does not stop running first.

Running too hot in the top end at high RPM could cause a bottom end bearing failure if the oil over-temped and coked up in the galleys, reducing flow. Volume of oil pumped is as important as pressure. You could also have an oil pump going bad. Or maybe your fuel octane is too low? You really can't tell a thing until it's apart and inspected.

Also, how many hours does the engine have on it since the last overhaul? Just normal wear and tear?

You don't sound like much of a hands on driver. Don't like getting your hands dirty? Don't want to learn what makes it tick?

The oil comment was a joke. I fully expected that reaction. Thanks for confirming my already low opinion of you once again.

[Thomas E.]

IT was "given" a reason for the metal in the oil. IT has no knowledge of what happened without seeking outside help. Some driver! No dirty hands for him!

[Alan Baker]

No. That's not necessarily so.

The guy who explained the scenario has years and years of experience
with these engines...

...and saw the piston tops in question before suggesting the possibility.

>
> https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=detonation+signs+on+piston&id=304859781A55876180270E8751845E683A582900&FORM=IQFRBA
>
>
> Minor detonation would not likely cause a main bearing or rod bearing
> failure in an otherwise healthy engine. Major detonation that damages
> pistons, valves and heads could. In fact, detonating engines have been
> known to burn holes in piston tops before the bottom end is damaged by
> the pistons' metal fragments that get into the oil. Your "minor
> detonation" theory is bunk, and shows just how little you know about
> your car. The very fact that you were "given" that scenario confirms
> you don't know much about engines, nor does the person that told you
> that.

LOL!

The guy who laid it out:

Has owned and operated an auto service business for at least 30 years.

Builds racing engines.

Builds Formula Ford "Kent" racing engines; the same kind as mine has.

>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking
>
> If the engine is idling it's probably not going to detonate, and
> cylinder pressures are low. Try advancing the timing and try to make it
> detonate at idle. You will hear the characteristic pinging if it does
> not stop running first.

I have an engine showing signs of bearing failure and you're suggesting
I RUN it AND make it detonate...

...and you have the temerity to suggest that /I/ don't know what I'm
doing, Liar-boy?

>
> Running too hot in the top end at high RPM could cause a bottom end
> bearing failure if the oil over-temped and coked up in the galleys,
> reducing flow. Volume of oil pumped is as important as pressure. You
> could also have an oil pump going bad. Or maybe your fuel octane is too
> low? You really can't tell a thing until it's apart and inspected.

No! Really?

>
> Also, how many hours does the engine have on it since the last
> overhaul? Just normal wear and tear?

The engine has only about 2 race weekends and 2 dyno session since NEW,
Liar-boy.

>
> You don't sound like much of a hands on driver. Don't like getting your
> hands dirty? Don't want to learn what makes it tick?

Actually, I like very much learning what makes things tick...

...but I can't afford to fool around with an engine that cost about $7K.

:-)

>
> The oil comment was a joke. I fully expected that reaction. Thanks for
> confirming my already low opinion of you once again.

Sure.

[Alan Baker]

You think that being a driver REQUIRES you work on your engines, Liar-boy?

I do lots of work on my car... ...I just know that I'm not an engine
builder. I have neither the knowledge, nor the specialized tools.

LOL

[Alan Baker]

You think that all it takes is leaders, Liar-boy?

I was making the racing possible by spending my days in a turn
marshall's station flagging the races for others. I've also volunteered
for the work parties that keep the track maintained.

How exactly does that fit with your claim of me being a "self-centred egotist"?

>
> As for the settlement, I offered to give you the contact information
> for the MD&D person I reported to in Boston. You refused to call him.
> You are the one who is being evasive. I absolutely cannot give you
> access to any of the hundreds of pages of confidential Tyson business
> records we obtained in discovery or any of my work, or MD&D's work. You
> have apparently never worked on expert opinion, a tort case, been
> deposed, or testified.

Why won't you answer my simple, logical question, Liar-boy? I'm not
asking for any of your evasions. Just an answer.

[-hh]

On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 6:46:40 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

Hmmm.... still just silence.

Weren't we just told by Tom that that means something?


-hh

[Walter Myer]

How touching. The Chimp rushes to the aid of his Butt Buddy.

[Thomas E.]

It means I have been very busy flying 5 hours a day, with paperwork to file.

[Alan Baker]

Riiiiiiight.

So we get the excuse from the Liar-boy about why he hasn't answered the
question...

...but no actual answer TO the question.

Seems familiar somehow.

:-)

[Thomas E.]

So how do you think they got those pictures of pistons with holes in them if the engine did not run to destruction?

Question, is the person inspecting this engine the same one who built it? Just wondering.

[Thomas E.]

Says the man with a loose carburetor.

[Thomas E.]

Prove it to the same standard you hold others to. I want to see movies of you in action.

I did answer your question. I worked for the insurance side through a forensic accounting firm. Think about that. Why would Tyson need a forensic accountant for discovery? They have their own records,and don't need to inspect the insurance company's. We dug up thousands of useful Tyson data points that when put together and the dots connected showed most of the claim was not valid.

[Alan Baker]

Evaded.

>>
>>>
>>> Running too hot in the top end at high RPM could cause a bottom end
>>> bearing failure if the oil over-temped and coked up in the galleys,
>>> reducing flow. Volume of oil pumped is as important as pressure. You
>>> could also have an oil pump going bad. Or maybe your fuel octane is too
>>> low? You really can't tell a thing until it's apart and inspected.
>>
>> No! Really?
>>
>>>
>>> Also, how many hours does the engine have on it since the last
>>> overhaul? Just normal wear and tear?
>>
>> The engine has only about 2 race weekends and 2 dyno session since NEW,
>> Liar-boy.
>>
>>>
>>> You don't sound like much of a hands on driver. Don't like getting your
>>> hands dirty? Don't want to learn what makes it tick?
>>
>> Actually, I like very much learning what makes things tick...
>>
>> ...but I can't afford to fool around with an engine that cost about $7K.
>>
>> :-)
>>
>>>
>>> The oil comment was a joke. I fully expected that reaction. Thanks for
>>> confirming my already low opinion of you once again.
>>
>> Sure.
>
> So how do you think they got those pictures of pistons with holes in
> them if the engine did not run to destruction?
>
> Question, is the person inspecting this engine the same one who built
> it? Just wondering.

Wow. You really can't do basic logic, can you?

You are engaging in the classic logical fallacy of "affirming the
consequent". Yes: I DID have to look up the NAME, but I understood it
perfectly well without knowing what it was called.

"affirming the consequent -- A fallacy of the form "if A, then B; B,
therefore A". Example: "If Smith testifies against Jones in court,
Jones will be found guilty. Jones was found guilty. Therefore, Smith
must have testified against him." {Jones could have been found guilty
without Smith's testimony.}"

<http://www.philosophicalsociety.com/logical%20fallacies.htm>

In your case, you've just argued that:

if A(holes in the pistons), then B(detonation); B(detonation),
therefore A(holes in the pistons).

And just as above:

You can have detonation without putting holes in the piston, Liar-boy.

Just HOW did you ever end up with a Ph.D.?



And the engine was inspected by BOTH the engine builder AS WELL as the
guy how suggested what might have happened. They also happen to be good
friends who've worked on projects and done work for each other for
many, many years, Liar-boy.

[Alan Baker]

Yup. That was a total miss on my part.

I've never pretended to be perfect, Liar-boy.

:-)

[Alan Baker]

Riiiight. Because at a race track, they take so many pictures of the
corner workers...

However, there is a picture of me enjoying a popsicle with my fellow
turn-workers...

...and some photos I was able to take the day I worked turn 6 station
solo on the day when the drivers gave back and loaned our cars and our
time so that the folks who worked the turns could try driving a race
car; many for the first time (organized by my good friend who gave me
the engine scenario, BTW)....

...and I've got a picture of the turn 9 station I worked during a
driver training weekend immediately following the Friday Worker
Appreciation Day.

<https://www.flickr.com/photos/23487697@N07/sets/72157656275862405/with/19333848873/>


<http://www.sccbc.net/calendar/schedule/2014-season-schedule/>

One of the reasons I won Novice of the Year after the 2013 season was
that the club recognized that I was doing more than showing up when I
could drive my race car.

Oh, but none of this fits your pre-conceived and utterly unsupported
notions, does it, Liar-boy?

:-)

>
> I did answer your question. I worked for the insurance side through a
> forensic accounting firm. Think about that. Why would Tyson need a
> forensic accountant for discovery? They have their own records,and
> don't need to inspect the insurance company's. We dug up thousands of
> useful Tyson data points that when put together and the dots connected
> showed most of the claim was not valid.

No. You have not answered MY question.

"How does you simply demonstrating knowledge of the mere EXISTENCE of a
settlement involving Tyson Foods prove anything about what SIDE you
were on?"

But you go right on evading it, Liar-boy.

;-)

[Thomas E.]

Alan, the photos prove nothing. They are undated and could have been taken by anyone, and posted on your account.

And I'm mot evading anything. Call MD&D.

[Thomas E.]

And that is not the only thing loose here, your screws are still pretty sloppy.

[Thomas E.]

You miss the whole point. What I said was than lower ends have survived severe detonation. Not all those pistons had holes in them.

The real point here is that you do not really know what caused an almost newly built engine to shed bearing metal into the oil. It could be any one of many things, including the builder screwing up something.

Try these:

Clogged oil gallery
Defective oil pump relief spring
Defective oil pump
Miss-sized crankshaft main bearing
Miss-sized rod bearing
Defective parts
Overheating top end that caused a camshaft bearing to bind

You won't know until it's torn down. Please report the findings.

I was not suggesting that you try running the damaged engine to test advancing the spark at idle. I just suggested you try it. Do that after the rebuild.

[Thomas E.]

Actually I did answer the question. It just took a while.

[Thomas E.]

Where does anything posted here prove you won any award?

[-hh]

On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 12:06:18 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 6:46:40 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 10:24:01 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
> > > [...]
> > > Total ... hours 129.2
> >
> >
> > Where "hours" is the only metric of goodness you can think of?
> >
> > Or is it merely the one which is of greatest benefit to your attempt
> > to define yourself as the "Winner"?
>

> Not only the flying hours metric, also total days and hours devoted to
> program participation. For every hour flown I give about another hour
> or so for my own flight prep and coordinating 35-40% of the state's
> total flying hours. That's about 650-750 annual flying hours.

Roughly a 1:1 ratio for planning versus doing? Glad I didn't bother taking
up flying.

> On the average flying day I leave the house at 7:30 am and get home at 4-5 pm.

So then a traceback of 1 May to July will reveal essentially zero hours posting during
the day, right?

> My "winnings" are the satisfaction I get from both my own flying and the
> program management dimension.

Except if that were actually true, then this thread would never have had been started.

> A race weekend a month over the summer? Whoopee. Glad he enjoys it.

Demeaning the personal choices of others: how "classy" of you, Tom.


-hh

[Alan Baker]

Actually:

1. A photo of me working a turn station does prove I was... ...working
a turn station.

2. They are dated by their metadata.

3. People can't post to MY Flickr account.

>
> And I'm mot evading anything. Call MD&D.

You are evading it.

Answer my question:

[Alan Baker]

LOL

[Alan Baker]

> Where does anything posted here prove you won any award?

You want proof?

<http://www.sccbc.net/data/2013/2013_awards_annual_record.pdf>

Let me help:

'Novice Driver of the Year -
Donated by Gordon 77 McMillian
chosen by RDC' [the "Race Drivers Committee; the club's most senior drivers]

...

2013 Alan Baker'

If that's not sufficient, I can take a picture of the small plaque I
got to keep, as well as already having a picture of me with the full
trophy.

:-)


Oh, and while I was searching for that:

'SCCBC Club Meeting July 9, 2014 7:30 p.m. - 9:00 p.m.

...

Correspondence
E-mail from Family Affair Racing Team thanking

CACC, SCCBC, Mazda Canada.

John Gillespie, Malcolm Curtis and Gayle Baird for lending the closed
wheel cars.

Jim McAdie, Al Ores, James Dallimore and Gayle Baird for lending their
open wheel cars.

The senior drivers that came out to work corners – Alan Baker, Lisa
Chen, Jim McAdie, James Dallimore, Gayle Baird, Ross Baillie, Malcolm
Curtis, John and Ellen Gillespie and Novice Metros Makrides.

Dallas Smith for manning the Safety Truck, Al and Ann Ores for driving
the Pace Car, Al Harvey for driving Chase Car.

We wish everyone could have seen the smiles on the faces of the workers
after the helmets came off. It was priceless…grins from ear to ear!
Everyone was eager to get back onto the track when their session was
over. The brief rain shower we had didn’t dampen anyone’s spirits.

Our dear workers stand out on the corners in the blazing heat of the
sun to the freezing cold rain and everything in-between that Mother
Nature throws at them. This weekend was to show them that we appreciate
their dedication in allowing drivers to fulfill their Need for Speed!
We expect some of them to be taking Driver’s Training in the near
future….'

<http://www.sccbc.net/data/2014/minutes/Jul_09_2014.pdf>

Game, set and match...

..and you lose...

...again.

:-)

[Alan Baker]

No, actually.

You have never answer the question of how mere knowledge of a civil
action proves that you were on one side and not the other.

Still waiting on that, Liar-boy.

[Thomas E.]

Somebody else could have taken the pictures and sent them to you.

Anyway, so you won and award. Whoopee.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxuJGTDTmSZ1dVNybVhlRkh1YVU/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxuJGTDTmSZ1cFBLenFIdXdmb2s/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxuJGTDTmSZ1M3MySTNkWFRaS0E/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxuJGTDTmSZ1dGZKOGhlRkF6ZUE/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxuJGTDTmSZ1RE5lWERoRExsZjA/view?usp=sharing

The first one is a national level award. That's 7 awards in 8 years. I would have won Top Prop for 2013 and 2014 too, but as state program director I'm no longer eligible. I missed out on flying for most of 2008 and quite a bit of 2009 due to time conflicts with the consulting business. In 2011 I had cataract surgery in both eyes that cost me 6 months of summer flying.

[Alan Baker]

Someone could have I suppose...

...but no one did.

And it wouldn't change the fact that there is a photo there... ...of me
working a turn.

As well as there is that other post where I quote from the club minutes
that supports my photos up and down the line.

:-)

>
> Anyway, so you won and award. Whoopee.
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxuJGTDTmSZ1dVNybVhlRkh1YVU/view?usp=sharing
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxuJGTDTmSZ1cFBLenFIdXdmb2s/view?usp=sharing
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxuJGTDTmSZ1M3MySTNkWFRaS0E/view?usp=sharing
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxuJGTDTmSZ1dGZKOGhlRkF6ZUE/view?usp=sharing
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxuJGTDTmSZ1RE5lWERoRExsZjA/view?usp=sharing
>
> The first one is a national level award. That's 7 awards in 8 years. I
> would have won Top Prop for 2013 and 2014 too, but as state program
> director I'm no longer eligible. I missed out on flying for most of
> 2008 and quite a bit of 2009 due to time conflicts with the consulting
> business. In 2011 I had cataract surgery in both eyes that cost me 6
> months of summer flying.

Keep evading, Liar-boy:

[Thomas E.]

Your second link is the 2014 race schedule. Evasion. What's the 2014 schedule go to do with a 2015 race in July? Supply that link to the club minutes.

[Thomas E.]

A photo of you(?) eating a flavored ice supports nothing about participation. Where is the picture of you doing anything useful. Looks to me like all you did was show up and enjoy the day. Where is there a mention of you in the minutes? I pulled up all the SCCBA minutes since 2013 and no mention of the word Baker in any of them. Please post a picture of your novice of the year award.

If it is you, and I doubt that because none closely resemble the driver in a YouTube video you supposedly posted, which person? The goofy look-alike to the Caddyshack greenskeeper, the bald old guy, or the gal(?) in white on the right?

[Alan Baker]

Sorry, I mean to post the club minutes that I've now posted in another place.

Now keep evading, Liar-boy:

"How does you simply demonstrating knowledge of the mere EXISTENCE of a

settlement involving someone prove anything about what SIDE you
were on?"

It's a simple question of logic, Liar-boy. I've even re-cast it to make
more hypothetical.

So why won't you answer, Liar-boy?

[Alan Baker]

1. The turn work I did that I was showing you was in 2014.

2. And I posted a link to the 2014 minutes where we were thanked for our time.

3. I posted a link to the club's list of its annual rewards and their
recipients.

4. I posted both of those in another reply in this thread, but you
didn't reply.

5. I guess that's "interesting" by your standards, right, Liar-boy?

>
> If it is you, and I doubt that because none closely resemble the driver
> in a YouTube video you supposedly posted, which person? The goofy
> look-alike to the Caddyshack greenskeeper, the bald old guy, or the
> gal(?) in white on the right?

I'm the guy on the left.

Oh, and there is no just "showing up and enjoying the day" out at the
turn stations. You're only allowed to be out there if you're working
the turn. The popsicle was during a 5 minute afternoon break. :-)

[Alan Baker]

[Thomas E.]

> The senior drivers that came out to work corners - Alan Baker, Lisa

> Chen, Jim McAdie, James Dallimore, Gayle Baird, Ross Baillie, Malcolm
> Curtis, John and Ellen Gillespie and Novice Metros Makrides.
>
> Dallas Smith for manning the Safety Truck, Al and Ann Ores for driving
> the Pace Car, Al Harvey for driving Chase Car.
>
> We wish everyone could have seen the smiles on the faces of the workers

> after the helmets came off. It was priceless...grins from ear to ear!

> Everyone was eager to get back onto the track when their session was
> over. The brief rain shower we had didn't dampen anyone's spirits.
>
> Our dear workers stand out on the corners in the blazing heat of the
> sun to the freezing cold rain and everything in-between that Mother
> Nature throws at them. This weekend was to show them that we appreciate
> their dedication in allowing drivers to fulfill their Need for Speed!
> We expect some of them to be taking Driver's Training in the near

> future....'

>
> <http://www.sccbc.net/data/2014/minutes/Jul_09_2014.pdf>
>
> Game, set and match...
>
> ..and you lose...
>
> ...again.
>
> :-)

How many novices were there? More than one? And how many gophers have you chased from the course today?

[Alan Baker]

I don't know... ...probably half a dozen; maybe a few more than that.

The POINT, Liar-boy, was that the award is given as much for how you
volunteer at the track...

...something you claimed (based on absolutely nothing, let's be clear)
that I wouldn't do.

And the email from the minutes was about those of us who volunteered to
give back something to the turn workers.

[Thomas E.]

Big whoop. One award in 3 years.

[Alan Baker]

I was never mentioning the award for the award itself, Liar-boy.

I was mentioning to further the refutation of your nonsensical and
utterly baseless accusation that I don't get out there and help.

"I doubt that Alan has any management job at the race course. He

probably just shows and goes."

And I just showed that I DON'T just "show and go", Liar-boy.

You... ...lose.

[Thomas E.]

Really? One weekend your car is broken and you help out - because your car is broken. What about the weekends when you are racing?

[-hh]

On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 9:58:00 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2015-07-27 01:44:24 +0000, Thomas E. said:
> > On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 9:07:00 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:

> >> [...]

> >>
> >> The POINT, Liar-boy, was that the award is given as much for how you
> >> volunteer at the track...
> >>
> >> ...something you claimed (based on absolutely nothing, let's be clear)
> >> that I wouldn't do.
> >>
> >> And the email from the minutes was about those of us who volunteered to
> >> give back something to the turn workers.
> >
> > Big whoop. One award in 3 years.
>
> I was never mentioning the award for the award itself, Liar-boy.
>
> I was mentioning to further the refutation of your nonsensical and
> utterly baseless accusation that I don't get out there and help.
>
> "I doubt that Alan has any management job at the race course. He
> probably just shows and goes."
>
> And I just showed that I DON'T just "show and go", Liar-boy.

Tom's just dragging the goal posts around with snarky comments.
Its clear from the start that he was seeking to pump up his own ego
and observations to the contrary weren't going to be heeded.

Besides, he also revealed on Lloyd's "Some new toys, yippee!! ;)" thread
an interesting element as well, when Lloyd was suggesting to him to
try a Toshiba Chromebook 2 such as Lloyd had done. Tom's response was:

TE "I would need to do a lot of checking before taking that plunge."

Where "taking that plunge" is referring to what is only a $300 device

Getting back to Tom's flying "hobby", he's already admitted that he doesn't
actually own any of the airplanes he flies, plus those 'pot-sniffing-dog'
CAP hours he flies are subject to reimbursement (such as fuel expenses).

Yeah, all of us can burn lots of retirement hours in some 'hobby' when
someone else is paying for it.

Heaven forbid one asks how little Tom pays when he's traveling to DC
when its all coming out of his own pocket rather than being tax-deductible
and/or paid for by someone else.

Which is why I asked before about why "hours" was picked as a supposed
metric for this discussion - - particularly since we all know that if Tommy
had actually been paying his own way that he could have chosen dollars.

So along those lines, and getting back to

"Total air operations 106
Total Hobbs hours 129.2"

... just what was the total cost of that advocation activity, and how much
(little) of it was actual out-of-pocket expenses incurred by Tom?

Time for Tommy to show that he put his money where his mouth is.


-hh

[Thomas E.]

On Saturday, July 25, 2015 at 5:42:45 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 12:06:18 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
> > On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 6:46:40 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 10:24:01 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
> > > > [...]
> > > > Total ... hours 129.2
> > >
> > >
> > > Where "hours" is the only metric of goodness you can think of?
> > >
> > > Or is it merely the one which is of greatest benefit to your attempt
> > > to define yourself as the "Winner"?
> >
> > Not only the flying hours metric, also total days and hours devoted to
> > program participation. For every hour flown I give about another hour
> > or so for my own flight prep and coordinating 35-40% of the state's
> > total flying hours. That's about 650-750 annual flying hours.
>
> Roughly a 1:1 ratio for planning versus doing? Glad I didn't bother taking
> up flying.
>

That 1:1 includes the time I spend as state director coordinating other pilot's flying. Otherwise it's a lot less. Still, CAP flying involves significantly more non-flying activity than the typical pilot does.

Be really glad you did not take up racing. Alan spends two days at the race course for about 1 hour racing 3 sessions at 20 minutes each. I used to spend a day at the drag strip for 1-5 runs lasting 11-12 seconds each!

Golf is even worse. Almost all your on-course time is spent walking to, and sometimes finding, the ball.

>
> > On the average flying day I leave the house at 7:30 am and get home at 4-5 pm.
>
> So then a traceback of 1 May to July will reveal essentially zero hours posting during
> the day, right?
>

I don't fly every day. You can tell when I do, you will see nothing between about 7 am and 4-5 pm EDT. That would include today.

>
> > My "winnings" are the satisfaction I get from both my own flying and the
> > program management dimension.
>
> Except if that were actually true, then this thread would never have had been started.
>
>
> > A race weekend a month over the summer? Whoopee. Glad he enjoys it.
>
> Demeaning the personal choices of others: how "classy" of you, Tom.
>

Alan and other Maccies demean others choice of computer and mobile device platforms. That's how it all got started, a long, long, time ago. Really classy of you too.

>
> -hh

[Thomas E.]

OK, good questions. Actually, the CAP flying I do is paid for by CAP. The whole thing, it costs me nothing out of pocket to fly the airplane. Well, gas to get to the airport and any meals are on me, typically about $10 a day. I also pay for uniforms and my own flying equipment. This year I bought 2 new Lightspeed ANC headsets, about $1200 out-of-pocket.

On the other hand, it means that I am not paying full attention to the consulting business. My opportunity costs could, and likely are, be considerable.

CAP even pays for most of my training flights.

Direct costs I pay are not all that much, but indirectly it's likely foregone income.

And just BTW, the consulting business has already hit 6 figures in net income this year. It's more than a hobby.

[Sandman]

In article <49078ffc-9c0c-4f59...@googlegroups.com>, Thomas E.

wrote:

> Alan Baker, MRP racing, May 1 to July 21 2015

> Tom Elam, Flying, May 1 to July 21 2015

Vehicles purchased to pursue hobby:

Alan: 1
Tom: 0




--
Sandman

[Sandman]

In article <c3fb71fe-cc3d-4e47...@googlegroups.com>, Thomas E.
wrote:

> > -hh:

> > Demeaning the personal choices of others: how "classy" of you,
> > Tom.
>
> Alan and other Maccies demean others choice of computer and mobile
> device platforms.

Well then. I suppose you have some really snazzy quotes to show for that claim,
don't you?

No?

Huh, figures.

--
Sandman

[-hh]

On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 7:07:12 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
> On Saturday, July 25, 2015 at 5:42:45 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
> > On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 12:06:18 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 6:46:40 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 10:24:01 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
> > > > > [...]
> > > > > Total ... hours 129.2
> > > >
> > > > Where "hours" is the only metric of goodness you can think of?
> > > >
> > > > Or is it merely the one which is of greatest benefit to your
> > > > attempt to define yourself as the "Winner"?
> > >
> > > Not only the flying hours metric, also total days and hours devoted to
> > > program participation. For every hour flown I give about another hour
> > > or so for my own flight prep and coordinating 35-40% of the state's
> > > total flying hours. That's about 650-750 annual flying hours.
> >
> > Roughly a 1:1 ratio for planning versus doing? Glad I
> > didn't bother taking up flying.
> >
>
> That 1:1 includes the time I spend as state director coordinating
> other pilot's flying. Otherwise it's a lot less. Still, CAP
> flying involves significantly more non-flying activity than
> the typical pilot does.

Afterall, there's paperwork to get your AvGas paid for.

> Be really glad you did not take up racing. Alan spends
> two days at the race course for about 1 hour racing 3
> sessions at 20 minutes each.

It is still personal choice...and "hours" still remains
a pretty arbitrary choice of a metric.

> I used to spend a day at the drag strip for 1-5 runs
> lasting 11-12 seconds each!

A type of racing which has no corners... So then
you have no actual personal experience before you
chose to 'express doubt'.

> Golf is even worse. Almost all your on-course time
> is spent walking to, and sometimes finding, the ball.

Yet the entire time spent is considered to be "golfing",
and people still choose to do it. Sometimes a walk is
just a walk, and sometimes there's something else to do
along the way ;-)

> > > On the average flying day I leave the house at 7:30am
> > > and get home at 4-5 pm.
> >
> > So then a traceback of 1 May to July will reveal
> > essentially zero hours posting during the day, right?
>
> I don't fly every day. You can tell when I do, you will
> see nothing between about 7 am and 4-5 pm EDT. That would
> include today.

...as well as the list of dates provided in the OP.

> > > My "winnings" are the satisfaction I get from both
> > > my own flying and the program management dimension.
> >
> > Except if that were actually true, then this thread
> > would never have had been started.
> >
> >

Hmm...no clever retort from Tom.

> > > A race weekend a month over the summer? Whoopee.
> > > Glad he enjoys it.
> >
> > Demeaning the personal choices of others: how "classy"
> > of you, Tom.
>
> Alan and other Maccies demean others choice of computer

> and mobile device platforms...

Unsubstantiated claim: cites pleae.



-hh

[-hh]

Sandman wrote:
> Thomas E. wrote:
>
> > Alan Baker, MRP racing, May 1 to July 21 2015
>
> > Tom Elam, Flying, May 1 to July 21 2015
>
> Vehicles purchased to pursue hobby:
>
> Alan: 1
> Tom: 0

Yup, that's another metric, and just as valid.



-hh


BTW, any suggestions for sightseeing in the Stockholm area?
If memory serves, you're in one of the other cities.

[Sandman]

In article <e6cbb179-e223-45b2...@googlegroups.com>, -hh wrote:

> > > Thomas E.:

> > > Alan Baker, MRP racing, May 1 to July 21 2015 Tom Elam, Flying,
> > > May 1 to July 21 2015
> >

> > Sandman:

> > Vehicles purchased to pursue hobby: Alan: 1 Tom: 0
>
> Yup, that's another metric, and just as valid.

> -hh

> BTW, any suggestions for sightseeing in the Stockholm area? If
> memory serves, you're in one of the other cities.

I'm in Västerås, about 12 (metric) miles from Stockholm.

Stockholm has some great places to be in. Old Town (Gamla Stan) is really cozy
and filled with nice restaurants, small shops and cafés.

Djurgården is where most of the sightseeing things are:

The Wasa museum
A museum about the shipwrecked (and later salvaged) warship Wasa that tipped over
after just a few kilometers of travel, still inside the Stockholm harbor.

Skansen
It's the oldest open air museum in the world. It contains buildings and
structures that dates back hundreds and sometimes thousands of years from all
over Sweden. It's also the place of the Stockholm zoo if you're in to that kind
of things.

Aquarium
It's been a while since I was there. But they have a "rain forest simulator" in a
temperated zone. I suppose it's fun if you've never been to the rain forest :)

Gröna Lund
Sweden's second largest amusement park (nowhere near the size of the
Disney/universal parks, but still nice).

But, just walking along the water line, dining somewhere nice (no Taco Bell's!)
and taking some nice photos is really nice, especially at night if the weather is
nice. When are you coming here? This summer has been a bit crappy but the
prognosis shows some more sun towards the weekend.



--
Sandman

[-hh]

Sandman wrote:

> -hh wrote:
> >
> > BTW, any suggestions for sightseeing in the Stockholm area?
> > If memory serves, you're in one of the other cities.
>
> I'm in Västerås, about 12 (metric) miles from Stockholm.
>
> Stockholm has some great places to be in.

Yes, that's what I recall from my all-too-brief visit there,
and why its on the radar to spend some more time.

> Old Town (Gamla Stan) is really cozy and filled
> with nice restaurants, small shops and cafés.

IIRC, a good place to keep on walking off the jet lag ;-)

> Djurgården is where most of the sightseeing things are:
>

> The Wasa museum..

Yup, want to go back with a good camera this time.
Its a bit dark for "jetlag recovery", but might also
be a possibility, as IIRC its just a couple of hours.

> Skansen
> It's the oldest open air museum in the world.

Hadn't seen this the other time; has high promise.
Is this a full day/half day/2 hrs..?

> It's also the place of the Stockholm zoo if
> you're in to that kind of things.

Maybe.

> Aquarium
> It's been a while since I was there. But
> they have a "rain forest simulator" in a
> temperated zone. I suppose it's fun if
> you've never been to the rain forest :)

Stuff like this is best saved for a bad weather day.

> Gröna Lund
> Sweden's second largest amusement park..

Probably not. Would be more interested in
a nice dayhike to some waterfalls, etc.

> When...?

Offline note sent.


-hh

[Alan Baker]

Still evading...

Answer the question:

How does demonstrating knowledge of the EXISTENCE of a civil case show
which side one was on?

[-hh]

On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 7:17:39 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
> On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 7:06:16 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
> >
> > Getting back to Tom's flying "hobby", he's already
> > admitted that he doesn't actually own any of the
> > airplanes he flies, plus those 'pot-sniffing-dog'
> > CAP hours he flies are subject to reimbursement
> >(such as fuel expenses).
> >
> > Yeah, all of us can burn lots of retirement hours
> > in some 'hobby' when someone else is paying for it.

> > ....

> > Which is why I asked before about why "hours" was

> > picked as a supposed metric for this discussion...
> > So along those lines, .... just what was the total

> > cost of that advocation activity, and how much
> > (little) of it was actual out-of-pocket expenses

> > incurred by Tom? ...

>
> OK, good questions. Actually, the CAP flying I do
> is paid for by CAP. The whole thing, it costs me
> nothing out of pocket to fly the airplane. Well,
> gas to get to the airport and any meals are on me,
> typically about $10 a day.

$10/day is background noise, as you need to live anyway.

> I also pay for uniforms and my own flying equipment.
> This year I bought 2 new Lightspeed ANC headsets,
> about $1200 out-of-pocket.

"ANR" (Noise Reduction, not Cancellation), which
at ~$600 each means just their 'Sierra' model.

Even though such gear will be "maintained" through
replacement, it isn't disposable but will have a
reasonably long lifespan to effectively amortized
its cost over. So for a headset, how long do you
expect it will last? Five years? Ten years?

Point being that even $600 isn't necessarily all
that costly, even for a hobby, when it gets
amortized over 5-10 years (eg, $600/10 = $60/year).

Particularly since many people spend as much just
for the inkjet ink in their home PC each year ;-)

> On the other hand, it means that I am not paying

> full attention to the consulting business...My
> opportunity costs could...

Since this is a OT thread on OT hobbies, irrelevant.


-hh

[Sandman]

In article <f69196eb-bee9-4626...@googlegroups.com>, -hh wrote:

> > > -hh:

> > > BTW, any suggestions for sightseeing in the Stockholm area? If
> > > memory serves, you're in one of the other cities.
> >

> > Sandman:
> > I'm in Vasteras, about 12 (metric) miles from Stockholm.

> > Stockholm has some great places to be in.
>
> Yes, that's what I recall from my all-too-brief visit there, and why
> its on the radar to spend some more time.

> > Sandman:

> > Old Town (Gamla Stan) is really cozy and filled with nice
> > restaurants, small shops and cafés.
>
> IIRC, a good place to keep on walking off the jet lag ;-)

Haha, most certainly :)

> > Sandman:
> > Djurgarden is where most of the sightseeing things are:

> >
> > The Wasa museum..
>
> Yup, want to go back with a good camera this time. Its a bit
> dark for "jetlag recovery", but might also be a possibility, as IIRC
> its just a couple of hours.

Indeed.

> > Sandman:

> > Skansen It's the oldest open air museum in the world.
>
> Hadn't seen this the other time; has high promise. Is this a full
> day/half day/2 hrs..?

You can totally spend a full day there, depends on how interesting you think it
is of course. It's pretty large and filled with both animals and structures
that are interesting if you're in to history.

> > Sandman:

> > It's also the place of the Stockholm zoo if you're in to that
> > kind of things.
>
> Maybe.

> > Sandman:

> > Aquarium It's been a while since I was there. But they have a
> > "rain forest simulator" in a temperated zone. I suppose it's
> > fun if you've never been to the rain forest :)
>
> Stuff like this is best saved for a bad weather day.

Yeah, unfortunately we've had a slew of those lately this summer. It's been a
bit of a crap summer this year.

> > Sandman:
> > Grona Lund Sweden's second largest amusement park..

>
> Probably not. Would be more interested in a nice dayhike to some
> waterfalls, etc.

Whoa, not much water falls in Sweden, and especially not in this area
(mid/east), it's flat as Florida, pretty much.

> > Sandman:
> > When...?
>
> Offline note sent.

Ok, based on some of the comments in that one, I suggest "Fotografiska", which
is a photo exhibit "museum".

And you're probably going to find some water falls in some of your other
locations (hint: Bergen) :-D


--
Sandman

[Thomas E.]

One is a Sierra, the other a Zulu. I use the Zulu, the other is for the right seat. The Zulu cost is net of an older Lightspeed I traded in. That one was actually not working, but they said they can use the parts.

Let's talk about hobby #2, downhill skiing. About $4-5 grand a year for 2 Epic unlimited passes, accommodation, transportation and food. We ski at Beaver Creek 2-3 weeks every year now. Love that place. This year we bought new skis too, some of the new hybrid rocker technology. And do they ever rock! My new Head Rev 85s are incredible. Can't wait to get back out there in February. I got them at the end of the stay this year and only have 3 or 4 days on them. Did not try them on the race course, will do that next year.

http://www.onthesnow.com/gear/a/2260/2015-men-s-all-mountain-front-ski-buyers--guide-/head/rev-85-pro

And yes, I do go down the BC race course every now and then.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxuJGTDTmSZ1SnRBaXZFa29pcEU/view?usp=sharing

[Thomas E.]

Here are the 40 days I have flown as PIC since Jan 1. Note that most are May onwards. Winter is pretty slow for GA flying in the Midwest. Check away to your heart's content.

2/6/2015
2/10/2015
4/14/2015
5/6/2015
5/7/2015
5/12/2015
5/13/2015
5/13/2015
5/14/2015
5/18/2015
5/19/2015
5/21/2015
5/22/2015
5/22/2015
5/27/2015
5/29/2015
6/2/2015
6/4/2015
6/6/2015
6/9/2015
6/12/2015
6/13/2015
6/17/2015
6/18/2015
6/19/2015
6/20/2015
6/23/2015
6/24/2015
6/25/2015
6/27/2015
6/30/2015
7/10/2015
7/11/2015
7/15/2015
7/16/2015
7/20/2015
7/21/2015
7/23/2015
7/24/2015
7/27/2015
7/28/2015

>
> > > > My "winnings" are the satisfaction I get from both
> > > > my own flying and the program management dimension.
> > >
> > > Except if that were actually true, then this thread
> > > would never have had been started.
> > >
> > >
>
> Hmm...no clever retort from Tom.

Too busy flying.

>
>
> > > > A race weekend a month over the summer? Whoopee.
> > > > Glad he enjoys it.
> > >
> > > Demeaning the personal choices of others: how "classy"
> > > of you, Tom.
> >
> > Alan and other Maccies demean others choice of computer
> > and mobile device platforms...
>
> Unsubstantiated claim: cites pleae.

Get a system-wide spellchecker, pleae (sic)

[-hh]

> One is a Sierra, the other a Zulu. I use the Zulu,
> the other is for the right seat. The Zulu cost is
> net of an older Lightspeed I traded in. That one
> was actually not working, but they said they can
> use the parts.

And their expected livespan is... (forget that part?)

> Let's talk about hobby #2, downhill skiing.

Because bragging about the flying didn't pan out.

> About $4-5 grand a year for 2 Epic unlimited
> passes, accommodation, transportation and food.
> We ski at Beaver Creek 2-3 weeks every year now.

Epic unlimited: $769/person

<http://www.vail.com/plan-your-trip/season-passes/season-passes-explorer.aspx>

$5K for 20 days = $250/day...a good value.

> This year we bought new skis too, some of
> the new hybrid rocker technology. And do

> they ever rock! My new Head Rev 85s ...

Looks like that pair of Head skis are ~$500
and that's another example of gear which
is expected to last for multiple years.


-hh

[Alan Baker]

So as usual.. ...you didn't tell the whole story.

>
> Let's talk about hobby #2, downhill skiing. About $4-5 grand a year for
> 2 Epic unlimited passes, accommodation, transportation and food. We ski
> at Beaver Creek 2-3 weeks every year now. Love that place. This year we
> bought new skis too, some of the new hybrid rocker technology. And do
> they ever rock! My new Head Rev 85s are incredible. Can't wait to get
> back out there in February. I got them at the end of the stay this year
> and only have 3 or 4 days on them. Did not try them on the race course,
> will do that next year.

Let's move to a new evasion!

>
> http://www.onthesnow.com/gear/a/2260/2015-men-s-all-mountain-front-ski-buyers--guide-/head/rev-85-pro
>

Bully for you! You spent money for what you consider a quality product.

>
> And yes, I do go down the BC race course every now and then.
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxuJGTDTmSZ1SnRBaXZFa29pcEU/view?usp=sharing

Wow... I bet you could be a ski instructor, Liar-boy!

[Thomas E.]

Depends, but 5-10 years is my experience.

>
>
> > Let's talk about hobby #2, downhill skiing.
>
> Because bragging about the flying didn't pan out.
>

It did pan out. I love flying. Just because I found a way to do it with little out-of-pocket cost does not mean it's not a hobby. I don't get paid to fly. In fact, I only have a private license.

My flying is no different from someone serving at a hospital or a church.

>
> > About $4-5 grand a year for 2 Epic unlimited
> > passes, accommodation, transportation and food.
> > We ski at Beaver Creek 2-3 weeks every year now.
>
> Epic unlimited: $769/person
>
> <http://www.vail.com/plan-your-trip/season-passes/season-passes-explorer.aspx>
>
> $5K for 20 days = $250/day...a good value.

It is a good value. We stay at a reasonably priced condo place, cook some of our own meals, and take a sack lunch on the mountain about half the time. We even drive out to Beaver Creek, avoiding airline and rental car costs.

>
>
> > This year we bought new skis too, some of
> > the new hybrid rocker technology. And do
> > they ever rock! My new Head Rev 85s ...
>
> Looks like that pair of Head skis are ~$500
> and that's another example of gear which
> is expected to last for multiple years.
>

In season with Solomon bindings about $700 + tax. I get new skis about every 3-4 years. They are still getting better every year. The wife's new K2's were about $600.

The annual cost does not include equipment. That Descente ski suit pictured on the Epic Pass site link is almost 30 years old! Yes, I still wear a one-piece. Cannot seem to wear the thing out. It has well over a year's use on it, and still looks good. People comment on it all the time, in a good way, mostly. Wish skis would last that long.

:)

[Alan Baker]

What I find hilarious are the number of trolls here who denigrate those
who use Macs for the fact that they cost more, who then turn around and
brag about the expensive things that THEY buy.

I find it particularly amusing that I'm both supposedly a fool for
spending too much buying Macs and iPhones...

...as well as for making a solid economic choice to keep my Miata going.

:-)

[Thomas E.]

Actually thought about it once. Bought the PSIA instructor books, talked to the head instructor at Breck, and then never pursued it. I taught the kids and the wife, and they are excellent skiers. It was sort of like you and flying in a way I suppose.

Did I read somewhere that you instruct?

[Alan Baker]

I have, but I'm not right now. Unfortunately, the only local mountain
worth working for changed their rules about part-time instructors and
the benefits aren't worth the costs anymore.

[Alan Baker]

On 2015-07-29 01:17:38 +0000, Thomas E. said:

>>> One is a Sierra, the other a Zulu. I use the Zulu,
>>> the other is for the right seat. The Zulu cost is> > net of an older
>>> Lightspeed I traded in. That one> > was actually not working, but they
>>> said they can> > use the parts.
>>
>> And their expected livespan is... (forget that part?)
>
> Depends, but 5-10 years is my experience.
>
>>
>>
>>> Let's talk about hobby #2, downhill skiing.
>>
>> Because bragging about the flying didn't pan out.
>>
>
> It did pan out. I love flying. Just because I found a way to do it with
> little out-of-pocket cost does not mean it's not a hobby. I don't get
> paid to fly. In fact, I only have a private license.
> My flying is no different from someone serving at a hospital or a church.

Riiiiight.

You get your flying for free. You've already expressed that flying is
worthwhile to you on its own merit, so you're getting a benefit...
...for free.

That's not quite as altruistic as you painted it, now is it, Liar-boy?

[-hh]

So roughly $75/year at the midpoint.

> > > Let's talk about hobby #2, downhill skiing.
> >
> > Because bragging about the flying didn't pan out.
>
> It did pan out.

Not as a "look at me!" brag for what you've invested in it, for as you point out, you've
found a way to have others pay your way.

> > > About $4-5 grand a year for 2 Epic unlimited
> > > passes, accommodation, transportation and food.
> > > We ski at Beaver Creek 2-3 weeks every year now.
> >
> > Epic unlimited: $769/person
> >
> > <http://www.vail.com/plan-your-trip/season-passes/season-passes-explorer.aspx>
> >
> > $5K for 20 days = $250/day...a good value.
>
> It is a good value. We stay at a reasonably priced condo place,
> cook some of our own meals, and take a sack lunch on the
> mountain about half the time. We even drive out to Beaver
> Creek, avoiding airline and rental car costs.

I have a colleague who does a similar thing; he goes to Vail.
Difference from NJ and work vacation time is that the typical
three trips they make each season add another $400/pp-RT
for air, plus a rental, which adds another $3.5K or so to the
total ... plus they tend to eat out most nights.

> > > This year we bought new skis too, some of
> > > the new hybrid rocker technology. And do
> > > they ever rock! My new Head Rev 85s ...
> >
> > Looks like that pair of Head skis are ~$500
> > and that's another example of gear which
> > is expected to last for multiple years.
>
> In season with Solomon bindings about $700 + tax.

Still cheap in comparison to other pursuits.

> I get new skis about every 3-4 years. They are still
> getting better every year. The wife's new K2's were about $600.

$700 by 3.5 years = $200/year .. about the same as how much
a good midrange dive computer will cost out at (i.e., $1K/5 year).

> The annual cost does not include equipment.

Except that the above is pretty much what is being done by simply
dividing purchase cost by expected lifespan.

Overall, with your sticks at $200/yr, then boots, poles, gloves, misc...
probably +$200/yr for them and a grand total of only ~$400/yr for
all of your ski gear stuff's upkeep, on top of your actual trip expenses.


-hh

[Thomas E.]

Giving entire days to a worthy cause is very altruistic.

From 1967 to 2005 my 1100 hours was all on me. Are you saying that I kept it up all those years, spending all that money, because I didn't enjoy the flying? Since 2005 most of the flying has been with CAP. Now that I have combined public service with something I enjoy doing anyway it has become even MORE enjoyable.

[Thomas E.]

The equipment is cheaper to own than rent, and you get the advantage of having something consistent from year-to-year. Especially the boots. How people rent those I have no idea. Kids I understand, buying would be stupid for a week a year. Overall the gear is a very small part of the overall costs. Most sports are like that. What's the big deal?

[Thomas E.]

Which

You don't get a big kick out of getting people going a sport you enjoy? That's a big part of my CAP flying. Taking kids up and letting them fly the airplane for 30 minutes is serious fun. Some of them are in the air for the first time in their lives. The smiles are priceless. I love sharing that experience with them.

I think I realized that working as a part-time ski instructor was not realistic unless I wanted to work at one of 2 local hills. A friend works at one on weekends, and really enjoys it. But with only 250 feet of vertical and man-made snow it's just not the same as Colorado. No Cypress, Grouse or Seymour 30 or so minutes away from here!

[-hh]

On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 5:55:25 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 28, 2015 at 10:27:43 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

> > > [big snip]

> > Still cheap in comparison to other pursuits.
> >
> > > I get new skis about every 3-4 years. They are still
> > > getting better every year. The wife's new K2's were about $600.
> >
> > $700 by 3.5 years = $200/year .. about the same as how much
> > a good midrange dive computer will cost out at (i.e., $1K/5 year).
> >
> >
> > > The annual cost does not include equipment.
> >
> > Except that the above is pretty much what is being done by simply
> > dividing purchase cost by expected lifespan.
> >
> > Overall, with your sticks at $200/yr, then boots, poles, gloves, misc...
> > probably +$200/yr for them and a grand total of only ~$400/yr for
> > all of your ski gear stuff's upkeep, on top of your actual trip expenses.
>

> The equipment is cheaper to own than rent, and you get the advantage
> of having something consistent from year-to-year. Especially the boots.
> How people rent those I have no idea. Kids I understand, buying would
> be stupid for a week a year.

It is predicated on if the gear gets used enough times per {season, year}.

> Overall the gear is a very small part of the overall costs.
> Most sports are like that. What's the big deal?

But if its now supposedly not a big deal, then precisely why have you just
told everyone about that you just spent $1200, $4-5K, $700 & $600?

All of which was in response for having to admit that your dozens of flight
hours cost you effectively nothing.

Busted yet again.


BTW, before you head out I'll give you the following hypothetical "First World
Problem" to mull over on your Wednesday morning drive and post your
decision: today's weather report is calling for a hot/humid day in the 90's,
so which car should one choose to drive this AM? The choices are a classic old
air-cooled Porsche 911 from a year where their A/C systems were weak by USA
standards, but its fun to ride in with the windows down/sunroof open, or to take
the new water-cooled Porsche which isn't as engaging, but who's A/C is strong.

Which one? Purely a hypothetical, of course...


-hh

[Alan Baker]

You made my point for me, Liar-boy.

You fly because you enjoy flying, and now you've found a way to do it
that is a lot less expensive. That's not altruistic in the least,
because if you could afford to, it's what you'd be doing anyway.

[Thomas E.]

Neither. The 2015 Civic that gets 40 MPG, is fun to drive, and has a great AC system. Different strokes.

[Thomas E.]

Are you saying that if someone gave you a very nice race car to drive, newer, faster and different from your FF, and paying all expenses, you would not drive it, and therefore race more often?

[Thomas E.]

On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 7:14:32 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

Got there by just saying that I had also bought skis this year. Then you turn it a big deal. Rotten apples.

[Alan Baker]

Of course I would...

...but I wouldn't consider it to be altruistic volunteering, Liar-boy.

[-hh]

On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 6:00:36 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

> -hh wrote:
> > BTW, before you head out I'll give you the following hypothetical "First World
> > Problem" to mull over on your Wednesday morning drive and post your
> > decision: today's weather report is calling for a hot/humid day in the 90's,
> > so which car should one choose to drive this AM? The choices are a classic old
> > air-cooled Porsche 911 from a year where their A/C systems were weak by USA
> > standards, but its fun to ride in with the windows down/sunroof open, or to take
> > the new water-cooled Porsche which isn't as engaging, but who's A/C is strong.
> >
> > Which one? Purely a hypothetical, of course...
>

> Neither. The 2015 Civic that gets 40 MPG, is fun to drive, and has a
> great AC system. Different strokes.

Are you saying that if someone gave you a very nice (and 'racy') car to drive,
older or newer, definitely faster and different from your Civic and just because
of the cost of a mere quarter tank of gas, you would not drive it...?

Yeah, right.

-hh

[-hh]

> > ...

>
> Got there by just saying that I had also bought skis this year. Then you turn
> it a big deal.

After you said that you bought aviation headsets - - to which it was
shown to be merely a 'durable good'. Plus it was also an obvious knee-jerk
ego defense response to another comment.

> Rotten apples.

Sorry, but I've owned my own ski gear as well, and know how it goes. As I had
already pointed out, skiing is "Still cheap in comparison to other pursuits",
despite your attempts to play it up such as by including total vacation costs.


-hh

[Alan Baker]

On 2015-07-26 02:06:38 +0000, Alan Baker said:

> On 2015-07-25 21:11:05 +0000, Thomas E. said:
>
>> On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 7:02:23 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
>>> On 2015-07-23 23:00:23 +0000, Thomas E. said:

>>>
>>>> On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 7:37:05 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 6:46:40 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 10:24:01 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>> Total ... hours 129.2
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where "hours" is the only metric of goodness you can think of?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or is it merely the one which is of greatest benefit to your attempt
>>>>>> to define yourself as the "Winner"?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>

>>>>> Hmmm.... still just silence.
>>>>>
>>>>> Weren't we just told by Tom that that means something?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -hh
>>>>
>>>> It means I have been very busy flying 5 hours a day, with paperwork to file.
>>>
>>> Riiiiiiight.
>>>
>>> So we get the excuse from the Liar-boy about why he hasn't answered the
>>> question...
>>>
>>> ...but no actual answer TO the question.
>>>
>>> Seems familiar somehow.
>>>
>>> :-)
>>
>> Actually I did answer the question. It just took a while.
>
> No, actually.
>
> You have never answer the question of how mere knowledge of a civil
> action proves that you were on one side and not the other.
>
> Still waiting on that, Liar-boy.

And still waiting...

"Interesting" that this question scares you so, Liar-boy, don't you think?

[Alan Baker]

On 2015-07-26 16:53:55 +0000, Alan Baker said:

>>> Keep evading, Liar-boy:

>>>
>>>
>>> "How does you simply demonstrating knowledge of the mere EXISTENCE of a
>>> settlement involving Tyson Foods prove anything about what SIDE you
>>> were on?"
>>

>> Your second link is the 2014 race schedule. Evasion. What's the 2014
>> schedule go to do with a 2015 race in July? Supply that link to the
>> club minutes.
>
> Sorry, I mean to post the club minutes that I've now posted in another place.
>
> Now keep evading, Liar-boy:

>
> "How does you simply demonstrating knowledge of the mere EXISTENCE of a

> settlement involving someone prove anything about what SIDE you
> were on?"
>
> It's a simple question of logic, Liar-boy. I've even re-cast it to make
> more hypothetical.
>
> So why won't you answer, Liar-boy?

Well?

Don't you find your reticence to answer this question "interesting", Liar-boy?

[Alan Baker]

Of course I get a kick out of that. My particular favorite was the
girlfriends of skiers who were left with me to instruct while their
already capable partners went on up the mountain. Many of them were
nervous if not outright scared of the prospect, and when I was able to
get them to the point where they were happily wondering when they too
could move up at least to the blue runs it was immensely gratifying.

But the deal used to be that we part-timers had to work one shift a
week or two half shifts, and that became that it had to be a full
shift. Not good for a freelance computer consultant. We also used to
get a staff pass that let us ski any time we liked as well as a free
day pass for every shift we instructed. That got knocked back to one
day pass only, which meant that the chief advantage of being able to
take any free time as an opportunity to ski went away. Combined with
the other minor annoyances of the way the job already was (such as
needing to physically check in at the ski instructor's hut every two
hours to see if there was a need for my services when the hut was as
far as possible from the good skiing as could be and there was cell
phone service on the mountain which could have been used instead) all
just made the job worth it.

[Thomas E.]

Of course not, because the racing is all about YOU, and YOU alone. It's about your adrenalin rush. It's about the bragging rights when you do well. It's about the satisfaction YOU get from it.

I take people with me, and as a team we perform missions in the public interest. It's NOT all about me. It's about the service I can perform for others too, including all the behind the scenes coordination. It's about using my life skills to do something bigger than myself. And yes, of course I enjoy the time in the air too.

That is a whole other dimension that racing and golf do not have. You would probably race if there were no spectators.

And for that matter, our skiing is pretty selfish too. However I had to take it down a notch when the wife got involved. A normal day that was 35-40k vertical feet that was just me, or me and the kids, became 10-25k. But it's a lot more fun in many ways. It took her about 10 weeks to really get into carving, but now she's pretty good.

Learn, earn, return. Maybe you will get it some day.

[Thomas E.]

I'll make you a deal. I'll excerpt something from my opinion if you'll admit that Chris Baker is a relative.

[Alan Baker]

No, Liar-boy.

Altruism is about doing things for others WITHOUT benefit to yourself.

You aren't doing that. You are deriving a large benefit: the ability to
engage in an activity you enjoy at little or no cost.

>
> I take people with me, and as a team we perform missions in the public
> interest. It's NOT all about me. It's about the service I can perform
> for others too, including all the behind the scenes coordination. It's
> about using my life skills to do something bigger than myself. And yes,

> of course I enjoy the time in the air too.That is a whole other

> dimension that racing and golf do not have. You would probably race if
> there were no spectators.

You're taking advantage of an opportunity that benefits you, and
there's nothing wrong with that, but you don't get to claim it is
altruistic.

'altruistic |ˌaltro͞oˈistik|
adjective

showing a disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of
others; unselfish:

"it was an entirely altruistic act. I question how altruistic his
motives were."'


Something isn't altruistic if it isn't "all about you", Liar-boy. It's
altruistic if it is essentially not about you at all. You aren't
"disinterested" or "selfless" in choosing to let someone else pay for
your hobby, Liar-boy.

> And for that matter, our skiing is pretty selfish too. However I had to
> take it down a notch when the wife got involved. A normal day that was
> 35-40k vertical feet that was just me, or me and the kids, became
> 10-25k. But it's a lot more fun in many ways. It took her about 10
> weeks to really get into carving, but now she's pretty good.
>
> Learn, earn, return. Maybe you will get it some day.

LOL

There is more altruism in my volunteering for my fellow racers than in
all of your flying, Liar-boy.

[Alan Baker]

Fascinating how you want to keep evading and how you'll break your
agreement (pardon me: the agreement you claim binds you) if it suits
you.

Answer my simple question:

How does mere knowledge of the EXISTENCE of a suit (which is all you
have demonstrated) support your claim of being on a particular side OF
that suit?

[-hh]

[-hh]

Hmmm.... still just silence.

Weren't we just told by Tom that that means something?

(although this one was at least rhetorical).


-hh