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An open message for the "heads" (for the lack of a better word) at Grogheads
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Vincenzo Beretta
Jan 21, 2015, 9:41:41 AM1/21/15
to
As I wrote earlier, I was recently banned from Grogheads - the site that "no, we are not the Wargamer".
Of course when you are banned you get a brief rant about the why and the INABILITY TO ANSWER - because who bans you is "God, your Lord and owner of the site". Sorry, Grogheads, but your being God is a total different thing, and your delusional belief only a Big Fail - and for once I will not allow to moronic "superiority" to go unchallenged.
- To clarify:
- Out of curiosity, did the guy who falsely accused Herman of being a thief and then fell silent when asked for proof get a "yellow card" too?
That's absolutely none of your business.
- It is absolutely all of my business: it is a measure of your fairness/hypocrisy. Anyway I guess I got an answer.
- This is my opinion: my highest court of appeal. My brain ownership is expressing his right to freedom of speech, not some low level drone dispatched to deliver news you will not like - and I have no fear of shy away from facing the consequences.
You have the right to not be censored by the government. We aren't the government and we have a right to include or exclude whoever we choose at our site.
- Who named the government? What I wrote is a-political. It is just my thought on the matter. Exclude who you want: it is your free prerogative - which in turn express the way you exercise your free will.
- I''m Charlie
No. No you're not.
- No? Let's see:
- I'm a comic book writer (check on the internet) currently in Paris (check the IP) who was almost taken in the crossfire. I lost a close friend in the Assault to Charlie Hebdo.
- The magazine will be regular on the newsstands printed in ONE MILLION COPIES. I sent a cartoon (pro bono, of course). It was accepted.
- Meanwhile, I get banned for defending another member. Why? Because (whine)we don't like your way of expressing yourself and your tone(/whine). This, at large, leads to outlets of the "land of freedom and courage" to publish the French cartoons with the offending parts blurred out. I will concede one thing to you: stupidity on the internet is not accompanied with a Kalashnikov - mostly.
- Freedom of speech is not something to pin on your breast and go around propagandising. Freedom of speech means danger - even of a simple ban. Do you think that my ban was unexpected? Think again. I still stand BEHIND EACH AND EVERY WORD I WROTE. Did I make myself clear?
You've got a 30-day vacation.
- From what? The Disneyland of the wargamers? The Son of Wargamer? For what I care, feel free to increase the vacation to 2050. I don't care to visit ISIL, Burma, Cuba, or North Korea, either.
Have a nice Superiority Complex,
Vincenzo
Of course when you are banned you get a brief rant about the why and the INABILITY TO ANSWER - because who bans you is "God, your Lord and owner of the site". Sorry, Grogheads, but your being God is a total different thing, and your delusional belief only a Big Fail - and for once I will not allow to moronic "superiority" to go unchallenged.
- To clarify:
- Out of curiosity, did the guy who falsely accused Herman of being a thief and then fell silent when asked for proof get a "yellow card" too?
That's absolutely none of your business.
- It is absolutely all of my business: it is a measure of your fairness/hypocrisy. Anyway I guess I got an answer.
- This is my opinion: my highest court of appeal. My brain ownership is expressing his right to freedom of speech, not some low level drone dispatched to deliver news you will not like - and I have no fear of shy away from facing the consequences.
You have the right to not be censored by the government. We aren't the government and we have a right to include or exclude whoever we choose at our site.
- Who named the government? What I wrote is a-political. It is just my thought on the matter. Exclude who you want: it is your free prerogative - which in turn express the way you exercise your free will.
- I''m Charlie
No. No you're not.
- No? Let's see:
- I'm a comic book writer (check on the internet) currently in Paris (check the IP) who was almost taken in the crossfire. I lost a close friend in the Assault to Charlie Hebdo.
- The magazine will be regular on the newsstands printed in ONE MILLION COPIES. I sent a cartoon (pro bono, of course). It was accepted.
- Meanwhile, I get banned for defending another member. Why? Because (whine)we don't like your way of expressing yourself and your tone(/whine). This, at large, leads to outlets of the "land of freedom and courage" to publish the French cartoons with the offending parts blurred out. I will concede one thing to you: stupidity on the internet is not accompanied with a Kalashnikov - mostly.
- Freedom of speech is not something to pin on your breast and go around propagandising. Freedom of speech means danger - even of a simple ban. Do you think that my ban was unexpected? Think again. I still stand BEHIND EACH AND EVERY WORD I WROTE. Did I make myself clear?
You've got a 30-day vacation.
- From what? The Disneyland of the wargamers? The Son of Wargamer? For what I care, feel free to increase the vacation to 2050. I don't care to visit ISIL, Burma, Cuba, or North Korea, either.
Have a nice Superiority Complex,
Vincenzo
eddys...@hotmail.com
Jan 21, 2015, 9:54:23 AM1/21/15
to
On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 at 3:41:41 PM UTC+1, Vincenzo Beretta wrote:
> - Freedom of speech is not something to pin on your breast and go around propagandising. Freedom of speech means danger - even of a simple ban. Do you think that my ban was unexpected? Think again. I still stand BEHIND EACH AND EVERY WORD I WROTE. Did I make myself clear?
Only raving lunatics and people who post stuff which hits home too close get banned. The trick is to belong to the latter category :)
> - Freedom of speech is not something to pin on your breast and go around propagandising. Freedom of speech means danger - even of a simple ban. Do you think that my ban was unexpected? Think again. I still stand BEHIND EACH AND EVERY WORD I WROTE. Did I make myself clear?
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Thewood
Jan 21, 2015, 5:33:44 PM1/21/15
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Giftzwerg
Jan 21, 2015, 6:35:03 PM1/21/15
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In article <676cd44c-89f1-4041...@googlegroups.com>,
rec...@hotmail.com says...
--
Giftzwerg
***
"As Barack 'Eldrick' Obama approaches his 200th round of golf since his
election as president, here?s a fact to put that into perspective: Since
January 2009, Tiger Woods has played 269 rounds of golf."
- Washington Times
rec...@hotmail.com says...
>
> As I wrote earlier, I was recently banned from Grogheads - the site that "no, we are not the Wargamer".
Let's see the post.
> As I wrote earlier, I was recently banned from Grogheads - the site that "no, we are not the Wargamer".
--
Giftzwerg
***
"As Barack 'Eldrick' Obama approaches his 200th round of golf since his
election as president, here?s a fact to put that into perspective: Since
January 2009, Tiger Woods has played 269 rounds of golf."
- Washington Times
Giftzwerg
Jan 21, 2015, 6:36:13 PM1/21/15
to
In article <c155b09a-a19f-4fb6...@googlegroups.com>,
kpro...@gmail.com says...
> > Have a nice Superiority Complex,
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Good post.
kpro...@gmail.com says...
> > Have a nice Superiority Complex,
> You got banned for defending an idiot with OCD about wargames. Humjob
got warned several times about his bullshit and you stepped in to defend
him...freedom to run your own website the way you want.
***
got warned several times about his bullshit and you stepped in to defend
him...freedom to run your own website the way you want.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Good post.
Herman Hum
Jan 21, 2015, 8:07:46 PM1/21/15
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Are you sure that was GrogHeads and not GodHeads? ;-)
"Vincenzo Beretta" <rec...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:676cd44c-89f1-4041...@googlegroups.com...
"Vincenzo Beretta" <rec...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:676cd44c-89f1-4041...@googlegroups.com...
Vincenzo Beretta
Jan 22, 2015, 12:55:31 AM1/22/15
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So, I basically got banned for defending someone with medical problems (OCD is a medical condition) from mobbers? Way to go Grogheads.
Anyway, fair is fair: next time I'll be banned for helping you to overcome your inability to analyse and understand simple situations.
Anyway, fair is fair: next time I'll be banned for helping you to overcome your inability to analyse and understand simple situations.
Vincenzo Beretta
Jan 22, 2015, 1:19:53 AM1/22/15
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>> Quote from: Herman Hum on January 08, 2015, 07:03:47 PM
>> Chill out. I am saying that Flashpoint is doing the same thing that made Steam and Iron successful; they are fixing their bugs and not hiding them behind a wall of bluster, the way other developers do.
> Quote from: a random dude
> Why couldn't you just say that in the first place?
Quote from: me of course
Because it was obvious to the average mind?
And, no, they are not "cheap shots". More like opportunity fire against posts which deserve the shot.
90% of the whines in this thread are the typical answer one hears when he finds his girlfriend in bed with his best friend and gets a bit miffed. Girlfriend: "But... but... Your tone is not being CONSTRUCTIVE... Sniff" ::)
A random Mod arrives via PM and *thinks* that he will give me the MOTHER OF ALL FINGER-WAGGINGS. When he flopped miserably (see my previous post here) BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Insta-BAN.
Which, after suggesting the kind of professional help TheWood should seek, could allow me to helpModHead in anger management. There is a career here!
>> Chill out. I am saying that Flashpoint is doing the same thing that made Steam and Iron successful; they are fixing their bugs and not hiding them behind a wall of bluster, the way other developers do.
> Quote from: a random dude
> Why couldn't you just say that in the first place?
Quote from: me of course
Because it was obvious to the average mind?
And, no, they are not "cheap shots". More like opportunity fire against posts which deserve the shot.
90% of the whines in this thread are the typical answer one hears when he finds his girlfriend in bed with his best friend and gets a bit miffed. Girlfriend: "But... but... Your tone is not being CONSTRUCTIVE... Sniff" ::)
A random Mod arrives via PM and *thinks* that he will give me the MOTHER OF ALL FINGER-WAGGINGS. When he flopped miserably (see my previous post here) BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Insta-BAN.
Which, after suggesting the kind of professional help TheWood should seek, could allow me to helpModHead in anger management. There is a career here!
Herman Hum
Jan 22, 2015, 1:24:55 AM1/22/15
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Fixed that for you.
news:b872ccfe-3e89-4945...@googlegroups.com...
news:b872ccfe-3e89-4945...@googlegroups.com...
> So, I basically got banned for defending someone with medical problems
> (OCD is a medical condition) from MODders?
eddys...@hotmail.com
Jan 22, 2015, 2:59:56 AM1/22/15
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On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 at 11:33:44 PM UTC+1, Thewood wrote:
> You got banned for defending an idiot with OCD about wargames.
Are you saying those that didn't want to read that "OCD idiot's" post were not clever enough to killfile him or that the forum owners weren't clever enough to put a killfile function in there ?
> You got banned for defending an idiot with OCD about wargames.
Clearly, Mr Beretta's penchant for being non-offensive and following arbitrary rules imposed on him from external authority clearly only extends to religions, so maybe the owners could declare GrogHead a religion, that way Mr Beretta is sure to follow all the rules.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Vincenzo Beretta
Jan 22, 2015, 5:43:52 AM1/22/15
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In D&D exist both the "Neutral Good" alignment ("Neither total law nor total chaos, but whatever works") and the Gods embodying it, you know ? :^D
And, BTW, I don't strictly follow a religion of peace. I have no problems at launching jihads against stupidity.
And, BTW, I don't strictly follow a religion of peace. I have no problems at launching jihads against stupidity.
eddys...@hotmail.com
Jan 22, 2015, 5:59:09 AM1/22/15
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On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 11:43:52 AM UTC+1, Vincenzo Beretta wrote:
> In D&D exist both the "Neutral Good" alignment
I'm only up to date on Pathfinder where we just finished a campaign in which I was a cleric to Abadar which was Lawful Neutral - the characters wishy-washy moral stance on everything annoyed the hell out of the other characters in the party - which was perfect and as intended, but annoys the hell out of me IRL.
> In D&D exist both the "Neutral Good" alignment
> And, BTW, I don't strictly follow a religion of peace. I have no problems at launching jihads against stupidity.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Vincenzo Beretta
Jan 22, 2015, 7:46:10 AM1/22/15
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You are mistaking "stupidity" with "low IQ". I cannot blame someone for the latter, of course, but I *will* blame someone for laziness in thinking - no matter the IQ.
eddys...@hotmail.com
Jan 22, 2015, 8:41:20 AM1/22/15
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On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 1:46:10 PM UTC+1, Vincenzo Beretta wrote:
> You are mistaking "stupidity" with "low IQ". I cannot blame someone for the latter, of course, but I *will* blame someone for laziness in thinking - no matter the IQ.
What you're not getting is that religion - and all the hang-ups that come with it - are a person's personal choice.
> You are mistaking "stupidity" with "low IQ". I cannot blame someone for the latter, of course, but I *will* blame someone for laziness in thinking - no matter the IQ.
What a person cannot choose is whether or not to crank up his IQ by a few points.
Therefore you can't blame somebody for being stupid, or not thinking things through, but you *can* blame someone for being a member of a murderous cult.
But you seem to blame the former and excuse the latter - in essence : you're not getting it - but I don't blame you for this :)
Incidentally : the medical definition of an idiot is having an IQ < 30
"In the early 1900s, Dr. Henry H. Goddard proposed a classification system for intellectual disability based on the Binet-Simon concept of mental age. Individuals with the lowest mental age level (less than three years) were identified as idiots; imbeciles had a mental age of three to seven years, and morons had a mental age of seven to ten years. The term "idiot" was used to refer to people having an IQ below 30" - Rapley, Mark (2004), The Social Construction of Intellectual Disability, Cambridge University Press, p. 32, ISBN 978-0-521-00529-6.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Vincenzo Beretta
Jan 22, 2015, 10:47:23 AM1/22/15
to
> Therefore you can't blame somebody for being stupid, or not thinking things through, but you *can* blame someone for being a member of a murderous cult.
Whoa! So, I can blame the American administration circa 2003 and all those who supported them?? The IQ of this newsgroup just jumped up.
BTW, which is the percentage of Muslims who are believed to be nutjobs? And the percentage of Righteous Christians who supported the futile Crusade - still circa 2003? And the number of innocent Musilms civilians killed either during the initial attacks or as a fallout of the farcical "post-war plan"?
I'm still waiting not for the factual data, but for an *analysis* of these data.
Vincenzo Beretta
Jan 22, 2015, 3:07:54 PM1/22/15
to
No. You failed to see the key point of my answer: I knew I would be banned. I still defended who I felt was deserving to be defended. Go Charlie. Really: it is not more complicated than that.
Random question: how many people are now helping Captn. Darwin and his team to find fix and fix bugs in Red Storm. Answer: none. I already posted elsewhere my opinion about when you willingly let your IQ to fall under 30.
Random question: how many people are now helping Captn. Darwin and his team to find fix and fix bugs in Red Storm. Answer: none. I already posted elsewhere my opinion about when you willingly let your IQ to fall under 30.
Thewood
Jan 22, 2015, 5:34:30 PM1/22/15
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On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 3:07:54 PM UTC-5, Vincenzo Beretta wrote:
> No. You failed to see the key point of my answer: I knew I would be banned. I still defended who I felt was deserving to be defended. Go Charlie. Really: it is not more complicated than that.
>
> Random question: how many people are now helping Captn. Darwin and his team to find fix and fix bugs in Red Storm. Answer: none. I already posted elsewhere my opinion about when you willingly let your IQ to fall under 30.
Well fucknuts...I count a dozen or so.
> No. You failed to see the key point of my answer: I knew I would be banned. I still defended who I felt was deserving to be defended. Go Charlie. Really: it is not more complicated than that.
>
> Random question: how many people are now helping Captn. Darwin and his team to find fix and fix bugs in Red Storm. Answer: none. I already posted elsewhere my opinion about when you willingly let your IQ to fall under 30.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=1294
And some of them are the same ones Humdick was talking about.
Giftzwerg
Jan 22, 2015, 6:05:49 PM1/22/15
to
In article <ef276897-4c3e-4df1...@googlegroups.com>,
rec...@hotmail.com says...
about it.
rec...@hotmail.com says...
>
> No. You failed to see the key point of my answer: I knew I would be banned. I still defended who I felt was deserving to be defended. Go Charlie. Really: it is not more complicated than that.
>
> Random question: how many people are now helping Captn. Darwin and his team to find fix and fix bugs in Red Storm. Answer: none. I already posted elsewhere my opinion about when you willingly let your IQ to fall under 30.
So. Enjoy your banning, Mr. Principled and Courageous. Stop whining
> No. You failed to see the key point of my answer: I knew I would be banned. I still defended who I felt was deserving to be defended. Go Charlie. Really: it is not more complicated than that.
>
> Random question: how many people are now helping Captn. Darwin and his team to find fix and fix bugs in Red Storm. Answer: none. I already posted elsewhere my opinion about when you willingly let your IQ to fall under 30.
about it.
Giftzwerg
Jan 22, 2015, 6:06:49 PM1/22/15
to
In article <c2e87fe3-f9d6-4f19...@googlegroups.com>,
eddys...@hotmail.com says...
eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> > And, BTW, I don't strictly follow a religion of peace. I have no problems at launching jihads against stupidity.
>
> Stupidity is not a choice, a religion is.
>
>
Consider that sentence stolen.
>
> Stupidity is not a choice, a religion is.
>
>
Giftzwerg
Jan 22, 2015, 6:12:59 PM1/22/15
to
In article <3e2bc7d3-ebd6-49b0...@googlegroups.com>,
eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> Incidentally : the medical definition of an idiot is having an IQ < 30
Nowadays, the definition of an idiot is any drooling, pants-wetting dolt
who imagines that Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists, and Hindus are
equivalently murderous as ragheads.
eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> Incidentally : the medical definition of an idiot is having an IQ < 30
who imagines that Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists, and Hindus are
equivalently murderous as ragheads.
Vincenzo Beretta
Jan 23, 2015, 3:39:56 PM1/23/15
to
Tourette syndrome. Now i'm getting a bit worried..
Out of curiosity, who is playing FIFTEEN Games of Red Storm at the same time, writing down all the bugs and the disruptive units behavior he finds - but he will never ever help Captn. Darwin and Mad Russian on Grogheads because the mental challenged who run the site decided to ban him?
We have a full list of bugs and disruptive behaviors ready to go. But some people *think* that they are intelligent because they have the power. History teach that it never ended well. History of the fora teaches that we are facing the current wargame quality crisis - and BTW being both banned will exclude us! When people think that "Command" is the wargame of the year, and no one actually examined with a bit of salt the "orgasmic" database, you know all you need to know.
Using this knowledge in a constructive manner to rebuild a declining hobby - now, that's the challenge. But when people like more a ban than the truth... Thanks god for Avalanche Press and its board games, even if all ambiguities in their rule books (easily solved with an enquiry on ConSimWorld). I'm now playing "The Road to Berlin". Meanwhile, in the digital world, Crusader King Ii plus expansions sold SEVEN MILLION COPIES. Let the ban make some people happy ("they are banned from all the important sites!") True: the ship has already abandoned the sinking rats.
Out of curiosity, who is playing FIFTEEN Games of Red Storm at the same time, writing down all the bugs and the disruptive units behavior he finds - but he will never ever help Captn. Darwin and Mad Russian on Grogheads because the mental challenged who run the site decided to ban him?
We have a full list of bugs and disruptive behaviors ready to go. But some people *think* that they are intelligent because they have the power. History teach that it never ended well. History of the fora teaches that we are facing the current wargame quality crisis - and BTW being both banned will exclude us! When people think that "Command" is the wargame of the year, and no one actually examined with a bit of salt the "orgasmic" database, you know all you need to know.
Using this knowledge in a constructive manner to rebuild a declining hobby - now, that's the challenge. But when people like more a ban than the truth... Thanks god for Avalanche Press and its board games, even if all ambiguities in their rule books (easily solved with an enquiry on ConSimWorld). I'm now playing "The Road to Berlin". Meanwhile, in the digital world, Crusader King Ii plus expansions sold SEVEN MILLION COPIES. Let the ban make some people happy ("they are banned from all the important sites!") True: the ship has already abandoned the sinking rats.
Herman Hum
Jan 23, 2015, 6:20:33 PM1/23/15
to
GrogHeads (a.k.a. Son of Wargamer) can pander to hooligans who cannot and
will not help improve the game. That is their prerogative. As a result,
they have absolutely no meaningful discussion whatsoever regarding the game.
news:eb574946-a11f-46c2...@googlegroups.com...
will not help improve the game. That is their prerogative. As a result,
they have absolutely no meaningful discussion whatsoever regarding the game.
news:eb574946-a11f-46c2...@googlegroups.com...
smr
Jan 24, 2015, 11:40:02 PM1/24/15
to
On 1/23/15 5:20 PM, Herman Hum wrote:
> GrogHeads (a.k.a. Son of Wargamer) can pander to hooligans who cannot
> and will not help improve the game. That is their prerogative. As a
> result, they have absolutely no meaningful discussion whatsoever
> regarding the game.
What the shit is this fuck? So, if I don't meticulously set up edges and
> GrogHeads (a.k.a. Son of Wargamer) can pander to hooligans who cannot
> and will not help improve the game. That is their prerogative. As a
> result, they have absolutely no meaningful discussion whatsoever
> regarding the game.
try to break a game engine and document it all down like some kinda
Spectrum Warrior Sperglord, I'm a "hooligan" who can't discuss the game?
Fuck you, pal, my only obligation as a game-player to the developer is
to pay him for it if there's a cost attached. It's not my fuckin' job to
help him improve it or fix bugs or even PLAY it if that's my desire.
--
smr
The Plodder
Jan 25, 2015, 10:33:51 AM1/25/15
to
eddys...@hotmail.com
Jan 26, 2015, 2:43:16 AM1/26/15
to
On Sunday, January 25, 2015 at 4:33:51 PM UTC+1, The Plodder wrote:
> If you really cared about the game and not just about grandstanding then you could just email them your findings.
Yeah, sure, setting up edge cases and trying to break the engine might not sound fair to the average gamer, but it's confronting the developers with the fact that *they* should have considered those edge cases and taken care of it . I'm a programmer and creating stable apps is all about the edge cases and that's what you test to the point where I've encountered it several times that a program was tested and working for the edge cases, but failed in the general case.
> If you really cared about the game and not just about grandstanding then you could just email them your findings.
Now the question is whether to do that publicly or privately. At this point in time the last thing pc wargaming needs is even more developers who remain aloof in their ivory towers, far removed from public criticism and protected by a moat of fanboys.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
The Plodder
Jan 26, 2015, 3:30:34 AM1/26/15
to
eddys...@hotmail.com
Jan 26, 2015, 4:22:18 AM1/26/15
to
Pc wargaming design these days is more akin to Haig coming up with grandiose attack plans than anything else, hence my remark about ivory towers which may or may not apply to the specific designers in this particular case - i.e. it was a general remark, not targeted at anyone specific.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Herman Hum
Jan 26, 2015, 6:25:15 AM1/26/15
to
The tale is nothing new. Just the usual story of fanbois trying to distract
and deflect attention away from the bugs and, instead, personally attacking
those who actually find the bugs and diverting (read stopping) *all*
discussion of the game. It happened with Harpoon and MNO and will most
certainly happen again.
<eddys...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a12107fc-fcce-4437...@googlegroups.com...
and deflect attention away from the bugs and, instead, personally attacking
those who actually find the bugs and diverting (read stopping) *all*
discussion of the game. It happened with Harpoon and MNO and will most
certainly happen again.
<eddys...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a12107fc-fcce-4437...@googlegroups.com...
Vincenzo Beretta
Jan 26, 2015, 6:33:08 AM1/26/15
to
> On Monday, January 26, 2015 at 9:30:34 AM UTC+1, The Plodder wrote:
> Vincenzo got banned for getting caught being a dick *again*.
I.e. For deserving my "I'm Charlie" medal.
Some knucklehead accused Herman to be a thief. I asked for proof and things went south (against me) fast. Advisory: *Never* ask for proof when someone is accused of bad behaviour or a crime - especially if he is Herman: you "will be a dick" and banned. My "ban letter" is in this very thread. Be careful: reading Groghead's "reasoning" can lower your IQ.
snuts
Feb 22, 2015, 2:48:58 PM2/22/15
to
On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 4:12:59 PM UTC-7, Giftzwerg wrote:
> Nowadays, the definition of an idiot is any drooling, pants-wetting dolt
> who imagines that Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists, and Hindus are
> equivalently murderous as ragheads.
>
Bah. How soon we forget the IRA. Assholes of any stripe can wrap themselves in religion.
> Nowadays, the definition of an idiot is any drooling, pants-wetting dolt
> who imagines that Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists, and Hindus are
> equivalently murderous as ragheads.
>
eddys...@hotmail.com
Feb 23, 2015, 2:52:37 AM2/23/15
to
I'm sure that if you try really, really well you will find some murderous non-Islamic cult. Then tell yourself that's exactly the same as what's happening now in the ME.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
Feb 23, 2015, 4:36:30 PM2/23/15
to
In article <d2b7173a-9c35-4143...@googlegroups.com>,
sush...@gmail.com says...
Yeah. The IRA. They were *awful*:
http://www.tpnn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Beheaded-Arab-Men.jpg
sush...@gmail.com says...
http://www.tpnn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Beheaded-Arab-Men.jpg
Giftzwerg
Feb 23, 2015, 4:44:25 PM2/23/15
to
In article <4f6cd501-a860-484d...@googlegroups.com>,
eddys...@hotmail.com says...
Sweet!
eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> >
> > > Nowadays, the definition of an idiot is any drooling, pants-wetting dolt
> > > who imagines that Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists, and Hindus are
> > > equivalently murderous as ragheads.
> > >
> >
> > Bah. How soon we forget the IRA. Assholes of any stripe can wrap themselves in religion.
>
> Funny then that they named themselves Irish Republican Army - not Catholic Republican Army - in sharp contrast to IS. And their beef was with non-Catholics in general or just with the British, no matter their religion ?
>
> I'm sure that if you try really, really well you will find some murderous non-Islamic cult. Then tell yourself that's exactly the same as what's happening now in the ME.
I hope they all murder each other. Keep going, ISIS. Keep choppin'.
> > > Nowadays, the definition of an idiot is any drooling, pants-wetting dolt
> > > who imagines that Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists, and Hindus are
> > > equivalently murderous as ragheads.
> > >
> >
> > Bah. How soon we forget the IRA. Assholes of any stripe can wrap themselves in religion.
>
> Funny then that they named themselves Irish Republican Army - not Catholic Republican Army - in sharp contrast to IS. And their beef was with non-Catholics in general or just with the British, no matter their religion ?
>
> I'm sure that if you try really, really well you will find some murderous non-Islamic cult. Then tell yourself that's exactly the same as what's happening now in the ME.
Sweet!
Climate Change
Feb 24, 2015, 6:17:34 AM2/24/15
to
On 24/02/2015 7:36 AM, Giftzwerg wrote:
> In article <d2b7173a-9c35-4143...@googlegroups.com>,
> sush...@gmail.com says...
>>
>> On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 4:12:59 PM UTC-7, Giftzwerg wrote:
>>
>>> Nowadays, the definition of an idiot is any drooling, pants-wetting dolt
>>> who imagines that Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists, and Hindus are
>>> equivalently murderous as ragheads.
>>>
>>
>> Bah. How soon we forget the IRA. Assholes of any stripe can wrap themselves in religion.
>
> Yeah. The IRA. They were *awful*:
>
> http://www.tpnn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Beheaded-Arab-Men.jpg
>
I count 8 people there.
> In article <d2b7173a-9c35-4143...@googlegroups.com>,
> sush...@gmail.com says...
>>
>> On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 4:12:59 PM UTC-7, Giftzwerg wrote:
>>
>>> Nowadays, the definition of an idiot is any drooling, pants-wetting dolt
>>> who imagines that Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists, and Hindus are
>>> equivalently murderous as ragheads.
>>>
>>
>> Bah. How soon we forget the IRA. Assholes of any stripe can wrap themselves in religion.
>
> Yeah. The IRA. They were *awful*:
>
> http://www.tpnn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Beheaded-Arab-Men.jpg
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles
They still have 3522 to go.
Or 905 more to catch up to this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown
eddys...@hotmail.com
Feb 24, 2015, 6:49:33 AM2/24/15
to
Let's have a look at those who do threaten me here and now :
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/10/us-religion-atheists-idUSBRE9B900G20131210
"A first survey of 60 countries last year showed just seven where death, often by public beheading, is the punishment for either blasphemy or apostasy - renouncing belief or switching to another religion which is also protected under U.N. accords.
But this year's more comprehensive study showed six more, bringing the full list to Afghanistan, Iran, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates and Yemen."
If only some smart guy could figure out the common denominator among them ...
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
Feb 24, 2015, 8:16:06 PM2/24/15
to
In article <mchmka$avq$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, climate...@itsafact.com
says...
Hey, fuckmonkey. Do you imagine I can't build on 9/11 and come up with
a metric fuck-ton of dead people at the hands of ragheads that will make
your silly, dopey, pathetic, weak-dick "argument" go, "wee-wee-wee" all
the way home?
says...
a metric fuck-ton of dead people at the hands of ragheads that will make
your silly, dopey, pathetic, weak-dick "argument" go, "wee-wee-wee" all
the way home?
Giftzwerg
Feb 24, 2015, 8:20:36 PM2/24/15
to
In article <de28181f-6afb-4f51...@googlegroups.com>,
eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> > > Yeah. The IRA. They were *awful*:
> > >
> > > http://www.tpnn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Beheaded-Arab-Men.jpg
> > >
> >
> > I count 8 people there.
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles
> >
> > They still have 3522 to go.
> >
> >
> > Or 905 more to catch up to this one:
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown
>
> Here's the key difference : none of the above is threatening or has ever threatened the likes of me.
>
> Let's have a look at those who do threaten me here and now :
>
> http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/10/us-religion-atheists-idUSBRE9B900G20131210
>
> "A first survey of 60 countries last year showed just seven where
death, often by public beheading, is the punishment for either blasphemy
or apostasy - renouncing belief or switching to another religion which
is also protected under U.N. accords.
***
Could be worse. You could be gay. Or a Jew.
> But this year's more comprehensive study showed six more, bringing the full list to Afghanistan, Iran, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates and Yemen."
>
> If only some smart guy could figure out the common denominator among them ...
That rag on their heads? Or the black mask on their faces?
But hey, Eddy, at least this lackwit isn't picking Torquemada (1492) or
the Crusades (1095) as his examples of the ruthless barbarity of non-
towelheads.
eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> > > Yeah. The IRA. They were *awful*:
> > >
> > > http://www.tpnn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Beheaded-Arab-Men.jpg
> > >
> >
> > I count 8 people there.
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles
> >
> > They still have 3522 to go.
> >
> >
> > Or 905 more to catch up to this one:
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown
>
> Here's the key difference : none of the above is threatening or has ever threatened the likes of me.
>
> Let's have a look at those who do threaten me here and now :
>
> http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/10/us-religion-atheists-idUSBRE9B900G20131210
>
> "A first survey of 60 countries last year showed just seven where
death, often by public beheading, is the punishment for either blasphemy
or apostasy - renouncing belief or switching to another religion which
is also protected under U.N. accords.
Could be worse. You could be gay. Or a Jew.
> But this year's more comprehensive study showed six more, bringing the full list to Afghanistan, Iran, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates and Yemen."
>
> If only some smart guy could figure out the common denominator among them ...
But hey, Eddy, at least this lackwit isn't picking Torquemada (1492) or
the Crusades (1095) as his examples of the ruthless barbarity of non-
towelheads.
Climate Change
Feb 25, 2015, 5:38:54 AM2/25/15
to
On 25/02/2015 11:16 AM, Giftzwerg wrote:
>>
>> I count 8 people there.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles
>>
>> They still have 3522 to go.
>>
>>
>> Or 905 more to catch up to this one:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown
>
> Hey, fuckmonkey. Do you imagine I can't build on 9/11 and come up with
> a metric fuck-ton of dead people at the hands of ragheads that will make
> your silly, dopey, pathetic, weak-dick "argument" go, "wee-wee-wee" all
> the way home?
>
Keep going.. have you got a number into the millions yet?
>>
>> I count 8 people there.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles
>>
>> They still have 3522 to go.
>>
>>
>> Or 905 more to catch up to this one:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown
>
> Hey, fuckmonkey. Do you imagine I can't build on 9/11 and come up with
> a metric fuck-ton of dead people at the hands of ragheads that will make
> your silly, dopey, pathetic, weak-dick "argument" go, "wee-wee-wee" all
> the way home?
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Ottoman_Muslims
If you want, I can restrict it to just 1 country.. can you beat 500000?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
I can even restrict it further, to just the children in 1 country
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/12/01/world/iraq-sanctions-kill-children-un-reports.html
Now let's see.. what was your example? Ah yes..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks
3000 people - a long way behind.
eddys...@hotmail.com
Feb 25, 2015, 6:43:37 AM2/25/15
to
On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 11:38:54 AM UTC+1, Climate Change wrote:
>
> 3000 people - a long way behind.
Crikey - it sure looks like we're at war with them - and we're winning !
>
> 3000 people - a long way behind.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
Feb 25, 2015, 5:50:42 PM2/25/15
to
In article <mck8nr$k3m$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, climate...@itsafact.com
says...
> > Hey, fuckmonkey. Do you imagine I can't build on 9/11 and come up with
> > a metric fuck-ton of dead people at the hands of ragheads that will make
> > your silly, dopey, pathetic, weak-dick "argument" go, "wee-wee-wee" all
> > the way home?
> >
>
> Keep going.. have you got a number into the millions yet?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Ottoman_Muslims
Started in 1683.
> If you want, I can restrict it to just 1 country.. can you beat 500000?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
How many were beheaded by US troops? Can you beat "zero?
> I can even restrict it further, to just the children in 1 country
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/1995/12/01/world/iraq-sanctions-kill-children-un-reports.html
Hmmm. Who was president then, again? Was it that bad man Bush?
> Now let's see.. what was your example? Ah yes..
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks
>
> 3000 people - a long way behind.
Not really:
https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/06/19/muslims-have-killed-
over-590-million-non-muslims-since-the-birth-of-mohammed/
590 million. About 450,000 per year over the last 1,300 years.
And, please note, these figures only include *non-Muslim* murder
victims. The number of Muslims slaughtered by their co-religionists is
absolutely unknown*.
Thanks for playing, Honeybunch.
* Not that I give a flying fuck how many ragheads are kakked out by
towelheads. I consider that a boon to civilization, and hope the
numbers stay high.
says...
> > Hey, fuckmonkey. Do you imagine I can't build on 9/11 and come up with
> > a metric fuck-ton of dead people at the hands of ragheads that will make
> > your silly, dopey, pathetic, weak-dick "argument" go, "wee-wee-wee" all
> > the way home?
> >
>
> Keep going.. have you got a number into the millions yet?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Ottoman_Muslims
> If you want, I can restrict it to just 1 country.. can you beat 500000?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
> I can even restrict it further, to just the children in 1 country
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/1995/12/01/world/iraq-sanctions-kill-children-un-reports.html
> Now let's see.. what was your example? Ah yes..
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks
>
> 3000 people - a long way behind.
https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/06/19/muslims-have-killed-
over-590-million-non-muslims-since-the-birth-of-mohammed/
590 million. About 450,000 per year over the last 1,300 years.
And, please note, these figures only include *non-Muslim* murder
victims. The number of Muslims slaughtered by their co-religionists is
absolutely unknown*.
Thanks for playing, Honeybunch.
* Not that I give a flying fuck how many ragheads are kakked out by
towelheads. I consider that a boon to civilization, and hope the
numbers stay high.
eddys...@hotmail.com
Feb 26, 2015, 2:47:33 AM2/26/15
to
On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 11:50:42 PM UTC+1, Giftzwerg wrote:
> Thanks for playing, Honeybunch.
I do hope he brings up colonialism because I've got some nice statistics on the number of Europeans enslaved by muslims as well.
Trap set. Waiting :)
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
> Thanks for playing, Honeybunch.
I do hope he brings up colonialism because I've got some nice statistics on the number of Europeans enslaved by muslims as well.
Trap set. Waiting :)
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Climate Change
Feb 26, 2015, 5:31:35 AM2/26/15
to
On 26/02/2015 8:50 AM, Giftzwerg wrote:
> https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/06/19/muslims-have-killed-
> over-590-million-non-muslims-since-the-birth-of-mohammed/
>
> 590 million. About 450,000 per year over the last 1,300 years.
You're complaining about my link going back to 1683 and then you link
> https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/06/19/muslims-have-killed-
> over-590-million-non-muslims-since-the-birth-of-mohammed/
>
> 590 million. About 450,000 per year over the last 1,300 years.
back 1300 years? Ok..
And that website - wow. That guy is seriously obsessed with Muslims,
and not in a healthy way.
"End the entire oil trade with the Muslims." Yes I'm sure that will
work well.
eddys...@hotmail.com
Feb 26, 2015, 5:50:23 AM2/26/15
to
On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 11:31:35 AM UTC+1, Climate Change wrote:
> "End the entire oil trade with the Muslims." Yes I'm sure that will
> work well.
As sure as you are about Global Warming no doubt.
> "End the entire oil trade with the Muslims." Yes I'm sure that will
> work well.
I've been saying for years we should convert our society to a nuclear/liquid hydrogen economy asap and stop using oil except for lubricants and plastics. And we've got enough reserves for that that we won't need to import anything. That way the ME will return to the status of backwater nobody gives a shit about and they'll be too poor to worry about anything except where their next meal will come from.
It's that or the Ripley Solution.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Climate Change
Feb 26, 2015, 6:21:23 AM2/26/15
to
On 26/02/2015 5:47 PM, eddys...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> Thanks for playing, Honeybunch.
>
> I do hope he brings up colonialism because I've got some nice statistics on the number of Europeans enslaved by muslims as well.
>
> Trap set. Waiting :)
>
> Greetz,
>
> Eddy Sterckx
>
Sounds good. Perhaps you can add in a link to another nutcase's website
>> Thanks for playing, Honeybunch.
>
> I do hope he brings up colonialism because I've got some nice statistics on the number of Europeans enslaved by muslims as well.
>
> Trap set. Waiting :)
>
> Greetz,
>
> Eddy Sterckx
>
like that last one by Giftzwerg - that was good for a laugh.
Oh wait, I did a quick "google" and found one for you. Mostly a pile of
total bullshit, but just as believable as that "muslim issue" one.
http://www.islam101.com/terror/christianViolence.htm
It even mentions your "colonialism". :-)
(for every crazy "I hate Islam" website, there is a just as crazy "I
hate Christians" website. The truth is somewhere in the middle..)
Climate Change
Feb 26, 2015, 6:28:36 AM2/26/15
to
On 26/02/2015 8:50 PM, eddys...@hotmail.com wrote:
> the ME will return to the status of backwater nobody gives a shit about
There may be one country in that region not happy about it returning to
> the ME will return to the status of backwater nobody gives a shit about
a status of backwater nobody.
eddys...@hotmail.com
Feb 26, 2015, 7:32:17 AM2/26/15
to
On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 12:21:23 PM UTC+1, Climate Change wrote:
> (for every crazy "I hate Islam" website, there is a just as crazy "I
> hate Christians" website. The truth is somewhere in the middle..)
Oh, shit, another cultural relativist.
> (for every crazy "I hate Islam" website, there is a just as crazy "I
> hate Christians" website. The truth is somewhere in the middle..)
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
eddys...@hotmail.com
Feb 26, 2015, 7:35:13 AM2/26/15
to
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Vincenzo Beretta
Feb 26, 2015, 1:23:06 PM2/26/15
to
AFGHANISTAN????? That place where USAnian started their campaign of "bring democracy over there"????? (we are still waiting for the result) Now I'm amazed.
Carl Alex Friis Nielsen
Feb 26, 2015, 1:36:12 PM2/26/15
to
On 26-02-2015 12:21, Climate Change wrote:
> Sounds good. Perhaps you can add in a link to another nutcase's website
> like that last one by Giftzwerg - that was good for a laugh.
Nutcase?
> Sounds good. Perhaps you can add in a link to another nutcase's website
> like that last one by Giftzwerg - that was good for a laugh.
Its a historic FACT the more Europeans were traded in the African slave
trade than negroes traded to the US or the 13 colonies the US was
created from.
Europeans were captured into slavery as far north as Iceland - and it
were Mohamedans who did the capturing and trading.
Vincenzo Beretta
Feb 26, 2015, 1:37:17 PM2/26/15
to
>> If you want, I can restrict it to just 1 country.. can you beat 500000?
>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
> How many were beheaded by US troops? Can you beat "zero?
This must be a new record in stupidity even for Giftzy.
>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
> How many were beheaded by US troops? Can you beat "zero?
Vincenzo Beretta
Feb 26, 2015, 1:41:11 PM2/26/15
to
> They can get with the program and adopt our Western way of life or continue to happily live their prefered Stone Age lives.
The ones with golden faucets?
Giftzwerg
Feb 26, 2015, 5:18:14 PM2/26/15
to
In article <mcmsm3$mnr$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, climate...@itsafact.com
says...
stupid).
> And that website - wow. That guy is seriously obsessed with Muslims,
> and not in a healthy way.
Unlike the "healthy" obsession ISIS appears to have with Jews,
Christians ... pretty much anyone who isn't wearing a black mask over
their faces.
You're off your fucking chump. This guy makes war with *words*, not
knives.
says...
>
> On 26/02/2015 8:50 AM, Giftzwerg wrote:
> > https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/06/19/muslims-have-killed-
> > over-590-million-non-muslims-since-the-birth-of-mohammed/
> >
> > 590 million. About 450,000 per year over the last 1,300 years.
>
> You're complaining about my link going back to 1683 and then you link
> back 1300 years? Ok..
My point is that your "numbers" game is just dishonest (as well as
> On 26/02/2015 8:50 AM, Giftzwerg wrote:
> > https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/06/19/muslims-have-killed-
> > over-590-million-non-muslims-since-the-birth-of-mohammed/
> >
> > 590 million. About 450,000 per year over the last 1,300 years.
>
> You're complaining about my link going back to 1683 and then you link
> back 1300 years? Ok..
stupid).
> And that website - wow. That guy is seriously obsessed with Muslims,
> and not in a healthy way.
Christians ... pretty much anyone who isn't wearing a black mask over
their faces.
You're off your fucking chump. This guy makes war with *words*, not
knives.
Giftzwerg
Feb 26, 2015, 5:19:14 PM2/26/15
to
In article <19529352-8c2e-4fde...@googlegroups.com>,
rec...@hotmail.com says...
> > How many were beheaded by US troops? Can you beat "zero?
>
> This must be a new record in stupidity even for Giftzy.
You have a better number? Cite?
rec...@hotmail.com says...
> > How many were beheaded by US troops? Can you beat "zero?
>
> This must be a new record in stupidity even for Giftzy.
Giftzwerg
Feb 26, 2015, 5:21:04 PM2/26/15
to
In article <54ef679b$0$23649$edfa...@dtext02.news.tele.dk>,
ca...@mail.dk says...
Don't confuse him with facts. Anyone who styles himself "Climate
Change" (he probably started out with "Global Warming," but everyone
just laughed...) is *a priori* incapable of understanding ... well,
anything.
ca...@mail.dk says...
Change" (he probably started out with "Global Warming," but everyone
just laughed...) is *a priori* incapable of understanding ... well,
anything.
eddys...@hotmail.com
Feb 27, 2015, 4:06:24 AM2/27/15
to
On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 11:21:04 PM UTC+1, Giftzwerg wrote:
> Anyone who styles himself "Climate Change"
You're just jealous the terrible scourge of Good Weather is more prevalent on this side of the Atlantic. Just 3 weeks to Spring and so far we've had maybe an inch of snow all winter. Looking around me I see colleagues in T-shirts - in February !
> Anyone who styles himself "Climate Change"
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Big Salad
Feb 27, 2015, 1:44:09 PM2/27/15
to
of carbon credits ought to put a chill in the air.
eddys...@hotmail.com
Feb 28, 2015, 3:51:47 AM2/28/15
to
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
Feb 28, 2015, 6:51:41 AM2/28/15
to
In article <b1603bd0-0006-4332...@googlegroups.com>,
eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> > >> Anyone who styles himself "Climate Change"
> > >
> > > You're just jealous the terrible scourge of Good Weather is more
> > > prevalent on this side of the Atlantic. Just 3 weeks to Spring and so
> > > far we've had maybe an inch of snow all winter. Looking around me I see
> > > colleagues in T-shirts - in February !
> >
> >
> > Sounds to me like your taxes are too low. 1000 Euro more a head worth
> > of carbon credits ought to put a chill in the air.
>
> It's amazing how you are able to predict our politician's reaction to the "problem" :)
If things keep going the way they are this winter, we're going to be
burning all those trees Al Gore planted for firewood.
eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> > >> Anyone who styles himself "Climate Change"
> > >
> > > You're just jealous the terrible scourge of Good Weather is more
> > > prevalent on this side of the Atlantic. Just 3 weeks to Spring and so
> > > far we've had maybe an inch of snow all winter. Looking around me I see
> > > colleagues in T-shirts - in February !
> >
> >
> > Sounds to me like your taxes are too low. 1000 Euro more a head worth
> > of carbon credits ought to put a chill in the air.
>
> It's amazing how you are able to predict our politician's reaction to the "problem" :)
burning all those trees Al Gore planted for firewood.
eddys...@hotmail.com
Feb 28, 2015, 11:40:00 AM2/28/15
to
On Saturday, February 28, 2015 at 12:51:41 PM UTC+1, Giftzwerg wrote:
> In article <b1603bd0-0006-4332...@googlegroups.com>,
> eddys...@hotmail.com says...
>
> > > >> Anyone who styles himself "Climate Change"
> > > >
> > > > You're just jealous the terrible scourge of Good Weather is more
> > > > prevalent on this side of the Atlantic. Just 3 weeks to Spring and so
> > > > far we've had maybe an inch of snow all winter. Looking around me I see
> > > > colleagues in T-shirts - in February !
> > >
> > >
> > > Sounds to me like your taxes are too low. 1000 Euro more a head worth
> > > of carbon credits ought to put a chill in the air.
> >
> > It's amazing how you are able to predict our politician's reaction to the "problem" :)
>
> If things keep going the way they are this winter, we're going to be
> burning all those trees Al Gore planted for firewood.
Just to rub it in some more : I just got back from a sunny hike with the little dog while wearing my summer jacket
> In article <b1603bd0-0006-4332...@googlegroups.com>,
> eddys...@hotmail.com says...
>
> > > >> Anyone who styles himself "Climate Change"
> > > >
> > > > You're just jealous the terrible scourge of Good Weather is more
> > > > prevalent on this side of the Atlantic. Just 3 weeks to Spring and so
> > > > far we've had maybe an inch of snow all winter. Looking around me I see
> > > > colleagues in T-shirts - in February !
> > >
> > >
> > > Sounds to me like your taxes are too low. 1000 Euro more a head worth
> > > of carbon credits ought to put a chill in the air.
> >
> > It's amazing how you are able to predict our politician's reaction to the "problem" :)
>
> If things keep going the way they are this winter, we're going to be
> burning all those trees Al Gore planted for firewood.
Remember : your cold is just weather, my lovely sunshine is climate :)
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Vincenzo Beretta
Mar 2, 2015, 2:15:49 PM3/2/15
to
Actually no one has "better numbers" about how many innocent people lost life and limb (heads included) in the bombings who opened the "Crusade for a Better Iraq - No, really!!!!!" ALONE. But I guess...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NktsxucDvNI
...That the total sum is little more than "zero".
Of course committing the act by pressing a button absolves you by any responsibility (doesn't it?) and allows all of us to enjoy the show on CNN while applauding the fireworks. A sword insyead is SO middle-ages.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NktsxucDvNI
...That the total sum is little more than "zero".
Of course committing the act by pressing a button absolves you by any responsibility (doesn't it?) and allows all of us to enjoy the show on CNN while applauding the fireworks. A sword insyead is SO middle-ages.
Vincenzo Beretta
Mar 2, 2015, 2:19:01 PM3/2/15
to
I heard that Inuits are making a shitload of money by exporting Annuraaq in the SW United States...
Vincenzo Beretta
Mar 2, 2015, 3:32:11 PM3/2/15
to
Are you telling us that the normal weather patterns are disrupted? Hmm...
BTW, Paris had one of the coldest winters in the last 20 years - of course when I had to spend the winter there.
Which, one evening, led to a simple question to a guy in my hotel who was keeping a talkfest against weather warming. After three hours and forty minutes he had to stop to inhale and I asked "Do you know why downwind a mountain range you usually find a desert? (see Nevada, Southern South America...) He of course sputtered and then asked what it had to do with his rant. Everything, of course, but I limited myself to point out "your ignorance".
BTW, Paris had one of the coldest winters in the last 20 years - of course when I had to spend the winter there.
Which, one evening, led to a simple question to a guy in my hotel who was keeping a talkfest against weather warming. After three hours and forty minutes he had to stop to inhale and I asked "Do you know why downwind a mountain range you usually find a desert? (see Nevada, Southern South America...) He of course sputtered and then asked what it had to do with his rant. Everything, of course, but I limited myself to point out "your ignorance".
Giftzwerg
Mar 2, 2015, 5:20:10 PM3/2/15
to
In article <dc72c611-e1f3-41b4...@googlegroups.com>,
eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> > If things keep going the way they are this winter, we're going to be
> > burning all those trees Al Gore planted for firewood.
>
> Just to rub it in some more : I just got back from a sunny hike with the little dog while wearing my summer jacket
>
> Remember : your cold is just weather, my lovely sunshine is climate :)
Today's low was -3F. The high? 18F. Thus far, every single day of
February has featured a low of zeroF or lower.
What, what? February is over.
eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> > If things keep going the way they are this winter, we're going to be
> > burning all those trees Al Gore planted for firewood.
>
> Just to rub it in some more : I just got back from a sunny hike with the little dog while wearing my summer jacket
>
> Remember : your cold is just weather, my lovely sunshine is climate :)
February has featured a low of zeroF or lower.
What, what? February is over.
Giftzwerg
Mar 2, 2015, 5:23:11 PM3/2/15
to
In article <196a3151-dac8-41a0...@googlegroups.com>,
rec...@hotmail.com says...
Do you really not see the difference between collateral damage on a
military target and standing behind a bound, masked, kneeling human
being and cutting off his head to spread Islam?
No. Of course you don't. You're just not that bright.
rec...@hotmail.com says...
military target and standing behind a bound, masked, kneeling human
being and cutting off his head to spread Islam?
No. Of course you don't. You're just not that bright.
Giftzwerg
Mar 2, 2015, 5:24:10 PM3/2/15
to
In article <06084b96-edb9-4c92...@googlegroups.com>,
rec...@hotmail.com says...
everyone.
rec...@hotmail.com says...
>
> I heard that Inuits are making a shitload of money by exporting Annuraaq in the SW United States...
You, in sharp contrast, make nothing exporting abject bullshit to
> I heard that Inuits are making a shitload of money by exporting Annuraaq in the SW United States...
everyone.
Vincenzo Beretta
Mar 2, 2015, 6:48:31 PM3/2/15
to
Yes, you nailed it: I'm not bright enough to understand the difference with *willingly* bombing a city and calling the dismembered civilians "collateral damage". I only have the wattage for arriving to "hypocrisy".
Vincenzo Beretta
Mar 2, 2015, 6:49:55 PM3/2/15
to
Whereas your bullshit is worth...? Just curious.
Holdit
Mar 2, 2015, 6:56:38 PM3/2/15
to
In article <7fef21f1-ed49-4afe...@googlegroups.com>,
rec...@hotmail.com says...
Doesn't Italian law differentiate between manslaughter and murder?
Holdit
rec...@hotmail.com says...
Holdit
eddys...@hotmail.com
Mar 3, 2015, 2:20:26 AM3/3/15
to
On Monday, March 2, 2015 at 9:32:11 PM UTC+1, Vincenzo Beretta wrote:
> Are you telling us that the normal weather patterns are disrupted? Hmm...
No, I'm just making fun of "True Believers" like you who, in here, explained at length that "Global Warming" meant that *my* climate would get colder and wetter (i.e. worse)
> Are you telling us that the normal weather patterns are disrupted? Hmm...
Need a cite ?
> BTW, Paris had one of the coldest winters in the last 20 years - of course when I had to spend the winter there.
BTW : Paris is 250 miles *south* of me, so I highly doubt they had a bad winter given the glorious one we had. I'm even taking the day off tomorrow because the forecast is sunny and 45 degrees Fahrenheit - ideal to do some yard-work.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Vincenzo Beretta
Mar 3, 2015, 7:48:50 AM3/3/15
to
Sadly you can doubt as high as the Tour Eiffel. Check the temperature for any given day in Paris from Dec. 23rd to Feb 5th, ***add the wind chill factor*** (something usually forgotten by who is not there) and you will understand why I had to take a cab to go eat to the bistrot in front of the hotel.
eddys...@hotmail.com
Mar 3, 2015, 8:22:32 AM3/3/15
to
On Tuesday, March 3, 2015 at 1:48:50 PM UTC+1, Vincenzo Beretta wrote:
> Sadly you can doubt as high as the Tour Eiffel. Check the temperature for any given day in Paris from Dec. 23rd to Feb 5th,
I just did.
> Sadly you can doubt as high as the Tour Eiffel. Check the temperature for any given day in Paris from Dec. 23rd to Feb 5th,
http://www.accuweather.com/en/fr/paris/623/january-weather/623
There wasn't a single freezing day in the whole period !
And it was 14 degrees on the 9th and 10th - you sure that was the "coldest winter in 20 years" ? - for you perhaps, but certainly not for Paris.
> ***add the wind chill factor*** (something usually forgotten by who is not there) and you will understand why I had to take a cab to go eat to the bistrot in front of the hotel.
You can always pick-out the tourists from the Med area over here : they're clothed as though if they're on a trip to the arctic, conversely : I got some funny looks last time I was in Spain, walking around in a T-shirt when the locals were still putting on sweaters.
Maybe after this extended stay in Paris you realize why "threatening" us with Global Warming just causes hysterical laughter and cries of "bring it on" :)
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Vincenzo Beretta
Mar 3, 2015, 10:16:17 PM3/3/15
to
See how it is easy to think that you are an expert? :0) Finding the daily temperatures is easy (that site was the one which I actually consulted every day). Finding the wind chill factor not so much (so you didn't factor it in; if you are ignorant about something, it doesn't exists - which is the main line of the climate change deniers). But I omitted a second, crucial, factor, beside wind chill, which made this a terrible winter for Paris - (and, like wind chill, has a key impact on the *perceived* temperature) and my guess is that you aren't even aware about what it is. Let's see if you are able to guess it. Meanwhile I place a bet: if you try to find it you will be none the wiser; and when you fold and I tell you what you missed you will break some fingers on the keyboard while trying to find a counterpoint.
So? Challenge accepted?
So? Challenge accepted?
CaligulasHorse
Mar 4, 2015, 12:39:49 AM3/4/15
to
On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 1:46:17 PM UTC+10:30, Vincenzo Beretta wrote:
> See how it is easy to think that you are an expert? :0) Finding the daily temperatures is easy (that site was the one which I actually consulted every day). Finding the wind chill factor not so much (so you didn't factor it in; if you are ignorant about something, it doesn't exists - which is the main line of the climate change deniers). But I omitted a second, crucial, factor, beside wind chill, which made this a terrible winter for Paris - (and, like wind chill, has a key impact on the *perceived* temperature) and my guess is that you aren't even aware about what it is. Let's see if you are able to guess it. Meanwhile I place a bet: if you try to find it you will be none the wiser; and when you fold and I tell you what you missed you will break some fingers on the keyboard while trying to find a counterpoint.
>
> So? Challenge accepted?
Humidity?
> See how it is easy to think that you are an expert? :0) Finding the daily temperatures is easy (that site was the one which I actually consulted every day). Finding the wind chill factor not so much (so you didn't factor it in; if you are ignorant about something, it doesn't exists - which is the main line of the climate change deniers). But I omitted a second, crucial, factor, beside wind chill, which made this a terrible winter for Paris - (and, like wind chill, has a key impact on the *perceived* temperature) and my guess is that you aren't even aware about what it is. Let's see if you are able to guess it. Meanwhile I place a bet: if you try to find it you will be none the wiser; and when you fold and I tell you what you missed you will break some fingers on the keyboard while trying to find a counterpoint.
>
> So? Challenge accepted?
Or being too frikkn old?
Has to be one or the other.
eddys...@hotmail.com
Mar 4, 2015, 2:01:28 AM3/4/15
to
On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 4:16:17 AM UTC+1, Vincenzo Beretta wrote:
> Finding the wind chill factor not so much (so you didn't factor it in; if you are ignorant about something, it doesn't exists
Are you drunk again ?
> Finding the wind chill factor not so much (so you didn't factor it in; if you are ignorant about something, it doesn't exists
I *live* around these parts. I've forgotten more about "wind chill" than you'll ever learn and I'm telling you this was a nice, warm winter - here and in Paris. Wind chill - ROTFLMAO - no, you're just an Italian freezing to death when living in *my* climate, a climate that could use some "Global Warming" don't you think ?
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
eddys...@hotmail.com
Mar 4, 2015, 2:54:25 AM3/4/15
to
On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 6:39:49 AM UTC+1, CaligulasHorse wrote:
>
> Humidity?
>
> Or being too frikkn old?
>
> Has to be one or the other.
Once this winter is over I'm going to inundate his little frozen Italian ass with cites and quotes of weather websites declaring this a warmer-than-average winter without a single cold-wave or much snow here at 52 degrees latitude.
>
> Humidity?
>
> Or being too frikkn old?
>
> Has to be one or the other.
... and maybe, just maybe, he'll start to understand why Global Warming is as much a threat to me as more rain is to fishes.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Vincenzo Beretta
Mar 4, 2015, 11:53:38 AM3/4/15
to
> Are you drunk again ?
I got drunk once in my whole life (I was 25 or so). I explained you why my inability to get drunk is a problem when I have to take certain kinds of medication (been there, got the T-Shirt with my DNA to prove it). You were too busy bawling tolisten.
> I *live* around these parts.
> I've forgotten more about "wind chill" than
...You'll ever learn...
Dunno. I did one year of Earth Sciences (here in Italy you can study a fiend that interests you, choosing the lessons which teach the basics; of course you can do it for your personal interest - it doesn't beat your EIGHT YEARS ON THE FIELD or such
> and I'm telling yo u this was a nice, warm winter - here and in Paris.
Sorry, Eddy: I was in Paris from mid December to early February. Parisiens agreed with me. If you have to invent something to prove a point, do some research first - like "Maybe he was there, so it is better not to invent how things where in Paris, but limit myself to invent how things were here..."
> Wind chill - ROTFLMAO - no, you're just an Italian freezing to death when living in *my* climate
> a climate that could use some "Global Warming" don't you think ?
eddys...@hotmail.com
Mar 4, 2015, 12:44:18 PM3/4/15
to
On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 5:53:38 PM UTC+1, Vincenzo Beretta wrote:
> Sorry, Eddy: I was in Paris from mid December to early February. Parisiens agreed with me.
They probably did that so you wouldn't feel so bad and/or were making fun of you behind your back. I made some similar sympathetic statements towards a team of visiting Indian engineers at our company last week as well. Those guys were actually freezing *inside* our main building because we keep the windows cracked to allow fresh air to enter - computers and central heating produce a lousy air quality. I could have sworn one of them turned a lighter shade of brown during a meeting.
> Sorry, Eddy: I was in Paris from mid December to early February. Parisiens agreed with me.
Anyway, here's the numbers - from MeteoFrance :
http://www.meteofrance.fr/climat-passe-et-futur/bilans-climatiques/bilan-2014/bilan-climatique-provisoire-de-l-annee-2014#
Then click on the "mois par mois" to get the monthly breakdowns
Then scroll down to November
I'll translate :
"very high temperatures during almost the entire month for the entire country"
December :
"Close to normal until the 10th, after that elevated temperaturs, then below average from the 27th onward" - "the end total averaging 0.7 degrees above normal"
I'll repeat for effect : 0.7 degrees ABOVE NORMAL.
I don't think you realize the region of the Seine, Paris included, has the exact same weather patterns as we have. If it starts to rain in Paris, we get it a couple of hours later, so I bloody well *know* what weather you had down there. The same one we had.
This ain't sunny Italy, this is the cold, rainy and windy North-West. What's pretty decent weather to us is still shitty to you.
> God forbids. Global warming melts the Northern Icecap. The cold waters mix with the warm waters of the Gulf Current causing both a lowering of their positive effect on Western European climate and... yes, humidity.
Ever heard of the placebo effect ? Maybe that nonsense just made you think the current Paris winter is a severe one.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
eddys...@hotmail.com
Mar 4, 2015, 1:39:24 PM3/4/15
to
Just for good measure, the January 2015 data is in as well
http://www.meteo-paris.com/actualites/bilan-meteo-de-janvier-2015-ville-par-ville-07-fevrier-2015.html
Paris : 0.4 degrees above average
... and 28% less rain than normal - there goes the cold and wet theory.
I think I've now covered the whole period you were in Paris. You sure you were in Paris, France and not in another Paris ?
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
http://www.meteo-paris.com/actualites/bilan-meteo-de-janvier-2015-ville-par-ville-07-fevrier-2015.html
Paris : 0.4 degrees above average
... and 28% less rain than normal - there goes the cold and wet theory.
I think I've now covered the whole period you were in Paris. You sure you were in Paris, France and not in another Paris ?
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
Mar 4, 2015, 5:37:43 PM3/4/15
to
In article <MPG.2f5f08e5b...@news-europe.giganews.com>,
holditREMOVE@indigoTHECAPS.i says...
> > Yes, you nailed it: I'm not bright enough to understand the difference
> > with *willingly* bombing a city and calling the dismembered civilians
> > "collateral damage". I only have the wattage for arriving to
> > "hypocrisy".
>
>
> Doesn't Italian law differentiate between manslaughter and murder?
Of course it does. But neither applies in a war.
holditREMOVE@indigoTHECAPS.i says...
> > Yes, you nailed it: I'm not bright enough to understand the difference
> > with *willingly* bombing a city and calling the dismembered civilians
> > "collateral damage". I only have the wattage for arriving to
> > "hypocrisy".
>
>
> Doesn't Italian law differentiate between manslaughter and murder?
Giftzwerg
Mar 4, 2015, 5:40:53 PM3/4/15
to
In article <a20fdd8a-9003-4c95...@googlegroups.com>,
eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> > Finding the wind chill factor not so much (so you didn't factor it in; if you are ignorant about something, it doesn't exists
>
> Are you drunk again ?
>
> I *live* around these parts. I've forgotten more about "wind chill" than you'll ever learn and I'm telling you this was a nice, warm winter - here and in Paris. Wind chill - ROTFLMAO - no, you're just an Italian freezing to death when living in *my* climate, a climate that could use some "Global Warming" don't you think ?
In any event, "wind chill" is irrelevant, since the Cult of Warmism
doesn't subtract the cooling effects of wind when they label a hot
summer as prima facie evidence of "Global Warming!!!"
eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> > Finding the wind chill factor not so much (so you didn't factor it in; if you are ignorant about something, it doesn't exists
>
> Are you drunk again ?
>
> I *live* around these parts. I've forgotten more about "wind chill" than you'll ever learn and I'm telling you this was a nice, warm winter - here and in Paris. Wind chill - ROTFLMAO - no, you're just an Italian freezing to death when living in *my* climate, a climate that could use some "Global Warming" don't you think ?
doesn't subtract the cooling effects of wind when they label a hot
summer as prima facie evidence of "Global Warming!!!"
eddys...@hotmail.com
Mar 5, 2015, 2:52:08 AM3/5/15
to
On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 11:40:53 PM UTC+1, Giftzwerg wrote:
> In article <a20fdd8a-9003-4c95...@googlegroups.com>,
> eddys...@hotmail.com says...
>
> > > Finding the wind chill factor not so much (so you didn't factor it in; if you are ignorant about something, it doesn't exists
> >
> > Are you drunk again ?
> >
> > I *live* around these parts. I've forgotten more about "wind chill" than you'll ever learn and I'm telling you this was a nice, warm winter - here and in Paris. Wind chill - ROTFLMAO - no, you're just an Italian freezing to death when living in *my* climate, a climate that could use some "Global Warming" don't you think ?
>
> In any event, "wind chill" is irrelevant, since the Cult of Warmism
> doesn't subtract the cooling effects of wind when they label a hot
> summer as prima facie evidence of "Global Warming!!!"
I'm still waiting for an explanation how a December 0.7 degrees above normal and a January 0.4 degrees above normal could possibly become "the coldest winter in 20 years".
> In article <a20fdd8a-9003-4c95...@googlegroups.com>,
> eddys...@hotmail.com says...
>
> > > Finding the wind chill factor not so much (so you didn't factor it in; if you are ignorant about something, it doesn't exists
> >
> > Are you drunk again ?
> >
> > I *live* around these parts. I've forgotten more about "wind chill" than you'll ever learn and I'm telling you this was a nice, warm winter - here and in Paris. Wind chill - ROTFLMAO - no, you're just an Italian freezing to death when living in *my* climate, a climate that could use some "Global Warming" don't you think ?
>
> In any event, "wind chill" is irrelevant, since the Cult of Warmism
> doesn't subtract the cooling effects of wind when they label a hot
> summer as prima facie evidence of "Global Warming!!!"
He was lucky he wasn't here during the 2012-2013 winter when polar bears in the local Zoo were thinking about migrating south :)
I'm always reminded about that carving left behind by a Roman soldier at Hadrian's Wall - that he was thankful they would be leaving this miserably cold and wet place - and that was during the Roman warm period :)
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
Mar 5, 2015, 5:02:26 AM3/5/15
to
In article <338a1c20-0df7-4197...@googlegroups.com>,
eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> I'm still waiting for an explanation how a December 0.7 degrees above normal and a January 0.4 degrees above normal could possibly become "the coldest winter in 20 years".
***
Because "heads they win, tails we lose." 2014 was quite cool in
Vermont. The winter was miserable, both in the Jan-Mar component and
kicking off again in November.
The spring was a bit late, but summer was beautiful; warm, breezy days
and cool nights. There was nothing in the way of bad weather, and I
think I ran my A/C system about three days.
And then we have to read the hysterical fucking headline, "2014 WAS THE
HOTTEST YEAR *EVAH*!!!!!!!!"
> He was lucky he wasn't here during the 2012-2013 winter when polar bears in the local Zoo were thinking about migrating south :)
***
"Weather isn't climate! Weather isn't climaaaaaate!!!!!!!!!!!"
(Until such time as ab Acolyte of the Cult of Warmism points to a hot
summer or a drought; *then* - and only then - weather is climate.)
> I'm always reminded about that carving left behind by a Roman soldier at Hadrian's Wall - that he was thankful they would be leaving this miserably cold and wet place - and that was during the Roman warm period :)
***
Vermonters are all thinking of moving to Baffin Island - you know, where
the polar bears are sweating and dying from swimming around in hot water
from melted glaciers - and moving the bears here.
eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> I'm still waiting for an explanation how a December 0.7 degrees above normal and a January 0.4 degrees above normal could possibly become "the coldest winter in 20 years".
Because "heads they win, tails we lose." 2014 was quite cool in
Vermont. The winter was miserable, both in the Jan-Mar component and
kicking off again in November.
The spring was a bit late, but summer was beautiful; warm, breezy days
and cool nights. There was nothing in the way of bad weather, and I
think I ran my A/C system about three days.
And then we have to read the hysterical fucking headline, "2014 WAS THE
HOTTEST YEAR *EVAH*!!!!!!!!"
> He was lucky he wasn't here during the 2012-2013 winter when polar bears in the local Zoo were thinking about migrating south :)
"Weather isn't climate! Weather isn't climaaaaaate!!!!!!!!!!!"
(Until such time as ab Acolyte of the Cult of Warmism points to a hot
summer or a drought; *then* - and only then - weather is climate.)
> I'm always reminded about that carving left behind by a Roman soldier at Hadrian's Wall - that he was thankful they would be leaving this miserably cold and wet place - and that was during the Roman warm period :)
Vermonters are all thinking of moving to Baffin Island - you know, where
the polar bears are sweating and dying from swimming around in hot water
from melted glaciers - and moving the bears here.
eddys...@hotmail.com
Mar 5, 2015, 6:01:41 AM3/5/15
to
On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 11:02:26 AM UTC+1, Giftzwerg wrote:
> Vermonters are all thinking of moving to Baffin Island - you know, where
> the polar bears are sweating and dying from swimming around in hot water
> from melted glaciers - and moving the bears here.
The polar bears are perfectly fine, even when all the ice would melt. They're just cute poster boys to play on the sentiment of dolts.
> Vermonters are all thinking of moving to Baffin Island - you know, where
> the polar bears are sweating and dying from swimming around in hot water
> from melted glaciers - and moving the bears here.
"Dyck and Kebreab sought to evaluate whether the foods could provide enough energy for the bears to survive longer periods on land. They analyzed existing data regarding the energetic contributions of the food sources and mathematically evaluated if each could contribute sufficient energy to offset the bears' daily loss of body mass. According to their calculations, the researchers found that it is possible for polar bears to maintain their body mass while onshore by feeding on Arctic char and seal blubber and that smaller bears--up to 280 kilograms--(617 pounds) could gain sufficient energy from blueberries. All of these alternative food sources are found in abundance where polar bears range during summer months. "
http://www.wildlifemanagementinstitute.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=369:polar-bears&catid=34:ONB%20Articles&Itemid=54
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
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