JA2 & Sierra Leone rebels
Kevin McGuire
are using the output of captured diamond mines to fund their efforts to
overthrow the government (not to mention hammering the blue helmets).
Gosh, maybe these games are getting too realistic.
--
Kevin McGuire
University of Pennsylvania
http://www.theenergyco-op.com/ <-- 100% Green Electricity in PA!
Matthew Levy
>An interesting report on NPR tonight on how the rebels in Sierra Leone
>are using the output of captured diamond mines to fund their efforts to
>overthrow the government (not to mention hammering the blue helmets).
>
>Gosh, maybe these games are getting too realistic.
>
And a temp named Fatima just started in my office. She keeps looking
at me like an idiot when I say "Faateemaa"
-Levy
John DeLaGarza
>are using the output of captured diamond mines to fund their efforts to
>overthrow the government (not to mention hammering the blue helmets).
>
>Gosh, maybe these games are getting too realistic.
You know, I bet that they are also going from town to town training
militias, too.
John DeLaGarza
Michael McGarvie
McGuire) wrote:
>An interesting report on NPR tonight on how the rebels in Sierra Leone
>are using the output of captured diamond mines to fund their efforts to
>overthrow the government (not to mention hammering the blue helmets).
>
>Gosh, maybe these games are getting too realistic.
Yes, but unlike the mercenaries of JA2, the RUF (the rebels) in Sierra
Leone, are only getting anywhere because everyone keeps
underestimating their leader, Sankoh. Frankly, the UN deserved to get
fucked up for wasting 8 years while this shit was going on.
I mean, I know I shouldnt laugh, but I really cant help laughing at
the UN. What, did they think they'd just step in and the RUF would
just suddenly start abiding by a peace treaty? Ha ha, most amusing.
How many have they broken all ready? I've lost count.
And also, unlike the mercs of JA2, the RUF is a really pathetic
military force - whenever they meet a professional force, they are
usually routed - actually, a mercenary army - Executive Outcomes -
absolutely slaughtered them, but unfortunately were forced to leave
before they could finish the job. Of course, the RUF also had some
trouble with the local itinerant farmers, the kamajors - who basically
got the witch doctors to bless them, making them immune to bullets. It
worked, and they beat the RUF up.
Of course, when you think about that, it really makes a whole mockery
of the UN, doesnt it? Or rather, their peacekeeping forces.
Sorry for the semi-rant. I lived there until the rebels forced me (or
rather my family) to leave. Im personally involved :)
Mike - Cant decide which is worse - RUF, or the UN.
shadows
[snip]
>before they could finish the job. Of course, the RUF also had some
>trouble with the local itinerant farmers, the kamajors - who basically
>got the witch doctors to bless them, making them immune to bullets. It
>worked, and they beat the RUF up.
Sir-Tech pay attention: witch doctors in Arulco should make mercs
immune to bullets. Like a mini quest or something.
[snip]
--
Thamer Al-Herbish <URL http://www.whitefang.com/>
-Buccaneer Heroes- Coming soon. <URL: http://www.whitefang.com/bh/>
There's only one reason not to release source: magic number embarrassment.
Nexus
McGarvie) wrote:
>On 11 May 2000 23:09:26 GMT, kevi...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu (Kevin
>McGuire) wrote:
>
>>An interesting report on NPR tonight on how the rebels in Sierra Leone
>>are using the output of captured diamond mines to fund their efforts to
>>overthrow the government (not to mention hammering the blue helmets).
>>
>>Gosh, maybe these games are getting too realistic.
>
>Yes, but unlike the mercenaries of JA2, the RUF (the rebels) in Sierra
>Leone, are only getting anywhere because everyone keeps
>underestimating their leader, Sankoh. Frankly, the UN deserved to get
>fucked up for wasting 8 years while this shit was going on.
>
>I mean, I know I shouldnt laugh, but I really cant help laughing at
>the UN. What, did they think they'd just step in and the RUF would
>just suddenly start abiding by a peace treaty? Ha ha, most amusing.
>How many have they broken all ready? I've lost count.
>
>And also, unlike the mercs of JA2, the RUF is a really pathetic
>military force - whenever they meet a professional force, they are
>usually routed - actually, a mercenary army - Executive Outcomes -
>absolutely slaughtered them, but unfortunately were forced to leave
>before they could finish the job. Of course, the RUF also had some
>trouble with the local itinerant farmers, the kamajors - who basically
>got the witch doctors to bless them, making them immune to bullets. It
>worked, and they beat the RUF up.
That doesn't seem to jive with most news reports. Those have
consistently indicated that the govt was getting beaten badly and
basically forced into a peace treaty with the rebels to prevent an
outright rebel victory.
Michael McGarvie
>That doesn't seem to jive with most news reports. Those have
>consistently indicated that the govt was getting beaten badly and
>basically forced into a peace treaty with the rebels to prevent an
>outright rebel victory.
Depends on which news reports you are listening - if you are listening
to world media - dont. They have ignored the situation for 9 years,
and arent doing too great a job now. Bastards! No, I dont have issues
with them *grin*
But yes, you are correct. Basically, the government has no army - most
of them left to join the rebels back in the early 90's (92-93 as I
recall - though my recollection is somewhat hazy) and so yes, the
government was practically forced into signing the peace accord to
keep the rebels from taking over (this being after they had forced
Executive Outcomes to leave, mores the pity).
However, in relation to the kamajors - they did beat the RUF forces
quite handily, and they were helping the government - but they are
tribesman/farmers and such - and arent exactly willing to leave their
families to go protect some stinky capital miles away. And after
having seen what the RUF likes to do to children they find, well - I
wouldnt leave my family either. There arent that many kamajors,
either.
Mike
Michael McGarvie
wrote:
>Michael McGarvie kes...@echidna.id.au wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>>before they could finish the job. Of course, the RUF also had some
>>trouble with the local itinerant farmers, the kamajors - who basically
>>got the witch doctors to bless them, making them immune to bullets. It
>>worked, and they beat the RUF up.
>
>Sir-Tech pay attention: witch doctors in Arulco should make mercs
>immune to bullets. Like a mini quest or something.
Well, rather than making them actually immune to bullets, the witch
doctors made it such that they just couldnt be hit. Bullets would fly
by them, but not actually hit. And the really spooky thing is that
these guys, with no real training, armed with shotguns and other such
simpel weaponry, were able to really put the boot into these rebels
whenever they encountered them. For a time, the RUF was really quite
nervous of them.
But yes, I can see it now - Jagged Alliance 3: Executive Outcomes -
you take control of the EO forces in the country of Sierra Leone - and
your mission is to wipe out the RUF forces. Sierra Leone is an
EXTREMELY mineral rich country, so the mines would be perfect cash
collectors (with the differing types of mine earning different amounts
of cash and so on)
The game could be set back in 96 or so, when the RUF actually did
completely take control of the country. They looted Freetown, the
capital, released all the people in the jail, and so on.
The game would end when you take Freetown, and execute Major Johnny
Paul Koroma, and Foday Sankoh.
Heh, it would be fun having an official mercenary force backing the
game :) Bizarre, certainly.
Mike
Derek Smart
You did? What part of the country did you live in? Freetown? (the
capital). I was there back in the mid-eighties. Went between there and
Liberia (neighboring country), which also got royally fucked by a
civil war soon after.
Derek Smart Ph.D.
Designer/Lead Developer
The Battlecruiser Series
www.3000ad.com
"Battlecruiser Millennium - If you're not in the game...
get in the game!"
taylor
Matthew Levy <me...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:391b1baa...@news.mindspring.com...
> kevi...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu (Kevin McGuire) wrote:
>
> >An interesting report on NPR tonight on how the rebels in Sierra Leone
> >are using the output of captured diamond mines to fund their efforts to
> >overthrow the government (not to mention hammering the blue helmets).
> >
> >Gosh, maybe these games are getting too realistic.
> >
> at me like an idiot when I say "Faateemaa"
>
> -Levy
Forget lenny bruce & bill hicks, Mathew levy has now entered the building.
I'd be careful if i was you, temps have a nasty habit of taking revenge on
the people who make their lives miserable.
shadows
>Well, rather than making them actually immune to bullets, the witch
>doctors made it such that they just couldnt be hit. Bullets would fly
>by them, but not actually hit. And the really spooky thing is that
>these guys, with no real training, armed with shotguns and other such
>simpel weaponry, were able to really put the boot into these rebels
>whenever they encountered them. For a time, the RUF was really quite
>nervous of them.
Probably placebo. They believed themselves invicible and took great
risks. Primitive pattern recognition would cause them to believe
they are blessed rather than recognizing that they were using bold
but effective tactics.
I'm just guessing of course. I wasn't there with them to know if the
blessing worked.
[snip JA3 in Sierra Leone ]
>The game could be set back in 96 or so, when the RUF actually did
>completely take control of the country. They looted Freetown, the
>capital, released all the people in the jail, and so on.
>
>The game would end when you take Freetown, and execute Major Johnny
>Paul Koroma, and Foday Sankoh.
>
>Heh, it would be fun having an official mercenary force backing the
>game :) Bizarre, certainly.
I wouldn't pay a dime if I thought the profits went toward the
killing of people. Sadly we don't have a choice when we pay taxes.
CCF
> Michael McGarvie kes...@echidna.id.au wrote:
>
> >Well, rather than making them actually immune to bullets, the witch
> >doctors made it such that they just couldnt be hit. Bullets would fly
> >by them, but not actually hit. And the really spooky thing is that
> >these guys, with no real training, armed with shotguns and other such
> >simpel weaponry, were able to really put the boot into these rebels
> >whenever they encountered them. For a time, the RUF was really quite
> >nervous of them.
>
> Probably placebo. They believed themselves invicible and took great
> risks. Primitive pattern recognition would cause them to believe
> they are blessed rather than recognizing that they were using bold
> but effective tactics.
>
> I'm just guessing of course. I wasn't there with them to know if the
> blessing worked.
>
Maji Maji Revolt in German SouthEast Africa and the Boxer Rebllion in China
both used similar "magic" to protect thenmsleves from bullets. Apparently the
mojo is better in Sieera Leone than in either of those two places though.
Nexus
So did the Sioux "Ghostdancers" in their uprising - didn't work for
them either.
Juris Baidins
The Sierra Leone rebels had the fortune of facing ill-trained conscripts
with automatic weapons, while the others faced professionals with bolt
actions.
--
Juris Baidins
bai...@udel.edu
Michael McGarvie
wrote:
>On Fri, 12 May 2000 19:09:21 GMT, kes...@echidna.id.au (Michael
>McGarvie) wrote:
>
>
>>Sorry for the semi-rant. I lived there until the rebels forced me (or
>>rather my family) to leave. Im personally involved :)
>>
>>Mike - Cant decide which is worse - RUF, or the UN.
>
>You did? What part of the country did you live in? Freetown? (the
>capital). I was there back in the mid-eighties. Went between there and
>Liberia (neighboring country), which also got royally fucked by a
>civil war soon after.
I lived about 5 hours south-west of Freetown, in a company-owned town,
Mobimbi, from 86 to 91. Not a bad place for a 9 year old boy, let me
tell you. School didnt start till 9, and ended at 1. Oh yeah, I had it
rough. Unfortunately, we had to leave because well - we could see the
writing on the wall. We got out just in time to, as less than a year
later, the town was overrun, and our friends who had stayed behind had
to hide in their houses as the rebels shot the place up. Not exactly
something you like to think of your friends going through.
But yeah, youre right about Liberia. I think to some extent the
situations in both countries fuel the other. Which is a pity, because
from what I saw, West Africa (and in particular, Sierra Leone) is the
most beautiful place on earth.
Mike - Getting all misty now. Thanks Derek!
Derek Smart
McGarvie) wrote:
>I lived about 5 hours south-west of Freetown, in a company-owned town,
>Mobimbi, from 86 to 91.
Never 'eard of it. Then again, I never left the city <g>. I think the
farthest I got into the inner regions, was Bo and I think Makeni and
place called Waterloo. Due to the expatriate companies there at the
time (Bouxite, Diamond, Gold mining etc), there were several company
owned towns like Mobimbi. We lived in Freetown for awhile, on
Liverpool street, a short distance from the UN building. The American
Embassy, at the time, was on the corner of Walpole and Shiaka Stevens
street I think, next to the Roxy cinema. In fact, the American Embassy
is (was?) right across from the city's oldest landmark, called the
Cotton Tree. It was a cotton tree actually <g> The then president's
office, State House, was just up a small hill (down from the Cotton
Tree) and across from the Paramount Hotel, run by some expatriates,
who also ran the Mamy Yoko hotel over on Lumbley Beach (where Cape
Sierra and Bintumani hotels are...or were?) about 2 hours from the
city and over on the coastal area of Lumbley road and Wilkinson road.
One of the scariest trips to Freetown, was going from the city to the
Lungi Int. Airport via ferry <g> That machine was so old, its a wonder
it ever got across, especially when packed with all the buses, cars
etc. Once the country advanced some more and some US company setup a
helo service over at Congo Cross, that was the end of my ferry trips
<g>
My family has a military (marines) background, so, we were all over
Africa. I went back a couple of times on vacation and haven't been
back since. I went once on vacation to Liberia (from the UK) but that
was just before the whole Liberian coup started, with Charles Taylor
and his gang of cronies. Shortly after, the American embassy over at
Mamba Point was evacuated. Sound familiar? <g>
>But yeah, youre right about Liberia. I think to some extent the
>situations in both countries fuel the other. Which is a pity, because
>from what I saw, West Africa (and in particular, Sierra Leone) is the
>most beautiful place on earth.
*sigh*, indeed. Its sad really. I mean, the neighboring countries,
Guinea, Ivory Coast, Cameroon etc, seem to be getting along fine and
they don't even have a fraction of the resources of these two
countries. Yet, the folks spend their time destroying the country,
killing each other etc. I don't have a clue who the hell they expect
to rebuild it. The IMF already took a financial bath in both places
and I seriously doubt that they're going to countinue funding it.
>Mike - Getting all misty now. Thanks Derek!
heh, join the club. I even have pics of my trips back there, loads of
them. Its sad really.
Anyway, I can be reached via email at dsm...@3000ad.com, its nice to
know someone else who have been down there and actually lived to talk
about it. :-)
Bob Perez
"Michael McGarvie" <kes...@echidna.id.au> wrote in message
news:391ce77c...@news.iinet.net.au...
> Well, rather than making them actually immune to bullets, the witch
> doctors made it such that they just couldnt be hit. Bullets would fly
> by them, but not actually hit.
Um, are you serious here? You're saying that witch doctors caused bullets to
miss?
BP
Michael McGarvie
No. Thats just what the kamajors believed. They believed that they
simply could not be hit by bullets. And while Im sure there were some
casualties, the kamajors did manage to eject the rebels from their
land to such an extent that they got a lot of press. Now, who's to say
whether they just believed that they were untouchable and thus took
insane risks and through luck managed to win the day, or whether there
actually is some mojo still working on the Dark Continent, and these
men were, for a time, unable to be hit by bullets?
Im a romantic sap, so I tend to secretly believe the latter, while
publicly procloaiming the former. But you didnt here it from me!
Mike - Working on some mojo right now, in fact. Doesnt work in
Australia though. Damn!
Derek Smart
>Ah well, there you go - Mobimbi is in the Bo district, so you must have gotten
>fairly close. Lovely little area, situated on and about a hill, overlooking
>rain forest on all sides. The town was actually owned by an ex-pat company -
>Sierra Rutile Ltd, which was extracting various minerals (mostly Rutile) in the
>local area. Unfortunately, the town is pretty much gone now - although there
>has been some work since 96 into getting the area back into working shape. Its
>now only 20 minutes from the capital, since they've got a plane flying supplies
>and such out.
*sigh* what a mess. That country was so beautiful back then. Its sad
really when you read about these places (Sierra Leone, Liberia,
Lebanon etc) you've been to, and people report about how gone the
places were. Heck, just watching the news about a place I've never
been to, being devasted (eg New Mexico fires) and actually being in a
disaster zone (Hurricane Andrew - Miami), makes you just cringe when
you think about it. Natural disasters are one thing, but people
actually devasting their country, is another. Sad really.
> And here I spent 5 hours in a combi van every time I wanted to go
>to Freetown. Gah!
heh, Poda-Poda I think they were called?
>Actually, I never really spent much time in Freetown, mores the pity. But yes,
>I remember the Cotton Tree - who could forget that? Its bloody huge! I really
>do hope that it hasn't been hurt in any way during the last decade of conflict.
>I remember when i first saw it, it's pretty wild seeing this huge tree in the
>middle of a round about. I hope that when they get back to rebuilding the city,
>they redirect the roads and just turn that area into a park, or somesuch - I'd
>like to go and sit under that tree, someday.
Considering that its parked right in the middle of the city, just down
the road from the State House (a primary target), I wouldn't be
surpised if its gone or near destroyed. I know someone who works for
Leon Tempelsman diamond company, (they used to be big in SL, back
then) and who I think is doing contract work for some ex-pats down
there, maybe he'll know. The last time I spoke to him, he had just
returned from there when the peace agreement was first hashed out.
>Unfortunately, both the Bintumani and Mamy Yoko are pretty much gone. Bintumani
>is totally gone, but is apparently going to be rebuilt by the Chinese. I always
>preferred Bintumani to Mamy Yoko, though its been so long I cant recall any
>specific reasons! Mamy Yoko is being occupied by the UN presently, though it
>too is practically a write off - the structure was gutted back in 96, and only
>the main structure remains.
Just figures. I take it Cape Sierra hotel, the first one that was
built there (Bintumani came after, and then Mamy Yoko I think), is
gone too? It used to be up on the hill on the main beach road conduit.
>Lumbley Beach was one of my favorite spots in the city, and I still have a
>picture of it on my wall (facing in toward the city unfortunately, not that
>fantastic view out to sea)
Yep. Beautiful beach. I have pics of it actually, I even have some
taken at the lighthouse around the back area. Beautiful, beautiful
place.
I wonder if that country will ever return to normal. Since all ex-pats
are afraid of investing or even going there, it could take a long,
long time, before it goes back to normal.
>I remember that ferry. It certainly made for interesting ride, as you say. I was
>never fortunate enough to be able to use the helicopter, though I believe my parents took a whirl.
Yep. That was one hellacious ride alright! <g> I can still remember
how many flights I'd missed because the ferry either left late, broke
down or clean missed the schedule!! Then, if there were no flights
that day, you either had to go back to the city or stayed at the Lungi
Hotel until the *next* day to catch a flight! Sometimes I think it was
a consipiracy to bring business to the hotel...that was until other
hotels started sprouting up! LOL!!
>You know, I hadn't thought about it, but yes - you're absolutely right - the
>surrounding region is very quiet, and yes, they do seem to be getting on with
>life in the 21st century, but Sierra Leone and Liberia... I don't know. It
>probably is because they are so phenomenally rich in mineral resources - with
>no strong central government, all you need is some guy with a few guns and a
>dream, and huzzah, revolution.
Yep. And the problem is that there are those who actually buy these
raw materials, further promoting the problem because then everyone has
the money to hire mercenaries and buy weapons.
>Heh, I'm just glad I wasn't there in 96, like my father. He was held at
>gunpoint before being evacuated, and then had to go back to Sierra Leone and
>meet Johnny Paul Koroma, the guy who led the military coup de tat in 96. Not
>exactly a pleasant experience! But yes, you're right, it is nice to talk about
>it.
I can imagine. I actually know people who were there in '96-'97 and
who had to pay in order to get smuggled out of there into Liberia and
Guinea, before heading to the Ivory Coast and catching a plane back to
the UK. In fact, as I understand it, most all of the Lebanese
businessmen (and the Indians) who actually kept the commerce going,
have all left. In fact, I ran into one of the richest Lebanese
businessmen (you probably heard of him), Jamil Sahid Mohamed, in
London, back in '97 I think. He left just before he was wrongfully
accused of conspiring to overthrow the government, by those who were
envious of him being a foreigner (he was part Sierra Leonean and
Lebanese) and being the richest man in the country. heh, it was funny
running into him actually. I was at a restaurant on the Oxford Street
end of Edgeware Road and in he comes, entourage in tow. <g>
I plan on going back, in about 15 years, when its all settled down.
Michael McGarvie
>>Mobimbi, from 86 to 91.
>Never 'eard of it. Then again, I never left the city <g>. I think the
>farthest I got into the inner regions, was Bo and I think Makeni and
>place called Waterloo. Due to the expatriate companies there at the
>time (Bouxite, Diamond, Gold mining etc), there were several company
>owned towns like Mobimbi. We lived in Freetown for awhile, on
>Liverpool street, a short distance from the UN building. The American
>Embassy, at the time, was on the corner of Walpole and Shiaka Stevens
>street I think, next to the Roxy cinema. In fact, the American Embassy
>is (was?) right across from the city's oldest landmark, called the
>Cotton Tree. It was a cotton tree actually <g> The then president's
>office, State House, was just up a small hill (down from the Cotton
>Tree) and across from the Paramount Hotel, run by some expatriates,
>who also ran the Mamy Yoko hotel over on Lumbley Beach (where Cape
>Sierra and Bintumani hotels are...or were?) about 2 hours from the
>city and over on the coastal area of Lumbley road and Wilkinson road.
Ah well, there you go - Mobimbi is in the Bo district, so you must
have gotten fairly close. Lovely little area, situated on and about a
hill, overlooking rain forest on all sides. The town was actually
owned by an ex-pat company - Sierra Rutile Ltd, which was extracting
various minerals (mostly Rutile) in the local area. Unfortunately, the
town is pretty much gone now - although there has been some work since
96 into getting the area back into working shape. Its now only 20
minutes from the capital, since they've got a plane flying supplies
and such out. And here I spent 5 hours in a combi van every time I
wanted to go to Freetown. Gah!
Actually, I never really spent much time in Freetown, mores the pity.
But yes, I remember the Cotton Tree - who could forget that? Its
bloody huge! I really do hope that it hasn't been hurt in any way
during the last decade of conflict. I remember when i first saw it,
it's pretty wild seeing this huge tree in the middle of a round about.
I hope that when they get back to rebuilding the city, they redirect
the roads and just turn that area into a park, or somesuch - I'd like
to go and sit under that tree, someday.
Unfortunately, both the Bintumani and Mamy Yoko are pretty much gone.
Bintumani is totally gone, but is apparently going to be rebuilt by
the Chinese. I always preferred Bintumani to Mamy Yoko, though its
been so long I cant recall any specific reasons! Mamy Yoko is being
occupied by the UN presently, though it too is practically a write off
- the structure was gutted back in 96, and only the main structure
remains.
Lumbley Beach was one of my favorite spots in the city, and I still
have a picture of it on my wall (facing in toward the city
unfortunately, not that fantastic view out to sea)
>One of the scariest trips to Freetown, was going from the city to the
>Lungi Int. Airport via ferry <g> That machine was so old, its a wonder
>it ever got across, especially when packed with all the buses, cars
>etc. Once the country advanced some more and some US company setup a
>helo service over at Congo Cross, that was the end of my ferry trips
><g>
I remember that ferry. It certainly made for interesting ride, as you
say. I was never fortunate enough to be able to use the helicopter,
though I believe my parents took a whirl.
>>But yeah, youre right about Liberia. I think to some extent the
>>situations in both countries fuel the other. Which is a pity, because
>>from what I saw, West Africa (and in particular, Sierra Leone) is the
>>most beautiful place on earth.
>*sigh*, indeed. Its sad really. I mean, the neighboring countries,
>Guinea, Ivory Coast, Cameroon etc, seem to be getting along fine and
>they don't even have a fraction of the resources of these two
>countries. Yet, the folks spend their time destroying the country,
>killing each other etc. I don't have a clue who the hell they expect
>to rebuild it. The IMF already took a financial bath in both places
>and I seriously doubt that they're going to countinue funding it.
You know, I hadn't thought about it, but yes - you're absolutely right
- the surrounding region is very quiet, and yes, they do seem to be
getting on with life in the 21st century, but Sierra Leone and
Liberia... I don't know. It probably is because they are so
phenomenally rich in mineral resources - with no strong central
government, all you need is some guy with a few guns and a dream, and
huzzah, revolution.
>its nice to
>know someone else who have been down there and actually lived to talk
>about it. :-)
Heh, I'm just glad I wasn't there in 96, like my father. He was held
at gunpoint before being evacuated, and then had to go back to Sierra
Leone and meet Johnny Paul Koroma, the guy who led the military coup
de tat in 96. Not exactly a pleasant experience! But yes, you're
right, it is nice to talk about it.
Mike
Michael McGarvie
>really when you read about these places (Sierra Leone, Liberia,
>Lebanon etc) you've been to, and people report about how gone the
>places were. Heck, just watching the news about a place I've never
>been to, being devasted (eg New Mexico fires) and actually being in a
>disaster zone (Hurricane Andrew - Miami), makes you just cringe when
>you think about it. Natural disasters are one thing, but people
>actually devasting their country, is another. Sad really.
The worlds going to hell in a handbasket! But yes, I would have liked
to have seen Liberia in its prime, and it is very sad that the Arab
cultures, which have always had a fascination for me, based on their
early histories, should be reduced to the current state of affairs.
Very sad, indeed. Even worse is if you do know the place, and I guess
I should be glad that we live in countries that don't face this sort
of thing on a semi-regular basis. I really don't want to imagine how
that would affect a person growing up in these situations...
>> And here I spent 5 hours in a combi van every time I wanted to go
>>to Freetown. Gah!
>heh, Poda-Poda I think they were called?
Yeah, those were the taxis - thank god I never had to travel in one of
them! Can you imagine being stuck in one of them? The horror! Luckily,
the company provided about 12 or so family-sized vans and drivers to
boot, so we had it fairly okay.
>Considering that its parked right in the middle of the city, just down
>the road from the State House (a primary target), I wouldn't be
>surpised if its gone or near destroyed. I know someone who works for
>Leon Tempelsman diamond company, (they used to be big in SL, back
>then) and who I think is doing contract work for some ex-pats down
>there, maybe he'll know. The last time I spoke to him, he had just
>returned from there when the peace agreement was first hashed out.
Actually, I just heard that the Cotton Tree is still intact, even
though there was some fighting around there - both the State House and
the US Embassy have both been shot up (apparently the US Ambassador
now has fashionable bullet holes in his walls - I would have thought
that some form of bullet-proofing would be mandatory in any embassy,
but apparently not. Still, the bullet motif is apparently commonplace
across Freetown no, so I guess one cant complain. At least the embassy
is still standing!
>>Unfortunately, both the Bintumani and Mamy Yoko are pretty much gone. Bintumani
>>is totally gone, but is apparently going to be rebuilt by the Chinese. I always
>>preferred Bintumani to Mamy Yoko, though its been so long I cant recall any
>>specific reasons! Mamy Yoko is being occupied by the UN presently, though it
>>too is practically a write off - the structure was gutted back in 96, and only
>>the main structure remains.
>Just figures. I take it Cape Sierra hotel, the first one that was
>built there (Bintumani came after, and then Mamy Yoko I think), is
>gone too? It used to be up on the hill on the main beach road conduit.
Actually, apparently the fighting never reached the Cape Sierra, so
its still intact - and probably making a killing in the tourist season
(ha ha). Hmm, probably not a smart choice of words there. I dont think
I ever went there, so hmm - Im going to have to go back there and
check it out one day.
>>Lumbley Beach was one of my favorite spots in the city, and I still have a
>>picture of it on my wall (facing in toward the city unfortunately, not that
>>fantastic view out to sea)
>Yep. Beautiful beach. I have pics of it actually, I even have some
>taken at the lighthouse around the back area. Beautiful, beautiful
>place.
I remember the lighthouse! Wasn't there a restaurant near it or
something? Damn! I was only a teenager at the time, and like a stupid
teenager, I just didn't care. Damn you, stupid teenager!
>I wonder if that country will ever return to normal. Since all ex-pats
>are afraid of investing or even going there, it could take a long,
>long time, before it goes back to normal.
With the mineral resources, I think that it will always bounce back
fairly quickly. But yes, the longer this situation continues, the more
ex-pats and foreign companies will be unwilling to put money into the
country, for fear that it will start again. Certainly, Sierra Rutile
has tried to go back in twice - once after the 96/97 coup de tat, and
once in 98/99 when the peace accord was signed, and both times - boom,
it blew up in their face.
Some companies, such as Sieromco - a Swedish owned site I believe
(nice people, but crazy), have just pulled out entirely - what's left
to mine in their areas just isn't worth the price of going back -
which is a pity, as they were good people - the ex-pats of both
companies got on very well - doing hashes (cross country runs for the
uninitiated - and in Africa, you learn what Cross Country really
means! I can boast that I was one of the fastest little buggers you
ever did see on the hash, and just because my then-girlfriend beat me
at the last meter in my last race doesnt mean I have any issues at
all. No sir, not me!)
Also as I believe all those mining firms had a profit-sharing deal
with the government. Without their presence, the government has less
money to work with - and I already believe Sierra Leone is the poorest
country in the world. Certainly it was at one stage when I read about
it in the handy CIA Handbook, sadly at one pioint my only source of
information regarding the country. Damn spooks!
>>I remember that ferry. It certainly made for interesting ride, as you say. I was
>>never fortunate enough to be able to use the helicopter, though I believe my parents took a whirl.
>Yep. That was one hellacious ride alright! <g> I can still remember
>how many flights I'd missed because the ferry either left late, broke
>down or clean missed the schedule!! Then, if there were no flights
>that day, you either had to go back to the city or stayed at the Lungi
>Hotel until the *next* day to catch a flight! Sometimes I think it was
>a consipiracy to bring business to the hotel...that was until other
>hotels started sprouting up! LOL!!
Well, I always remember that Lungi Hotel had a great pool, even if the
meals weren't the best. Although I probably remember it had a great
pool because Mamy Yoko and Bintumani were right on the beach, so I
could just go swim in the ocean if I wanted, whereas Lungi was further
inland. Unfortunately, its been totalled as well, so hmmm - where do
people stay now, if they are going to the airport? I'll have to ask.
>Yep. And the problem is that there are those who actually buy these
>raw materials, further promoting the problem because then everyone has
>the money to hire mercenaries and buy weapons.
Yes - that's it exactly. I cant remember who exactly was buying the
rebels diamonds - the name Baku Baku keeps popping up in my head,
though Im sure thats just the name of some wierd Japanese game, rather
than the name of an African state. Its still rather shocking to
realise there is such a black market for raw materials and arms...
This is the 21st century - that sort of stuff cant be happening, can
it? Which only goes to illustrate the vast gulf between first and
third world country societies and cultures.
At one point, I do believe an arms dealer was going to buy Sierra
Rutile, so that he had direct control of the raw materials supply.
Scary thought. I think he may have actually purchased the company,
though I'm not sure whether he still owns it.
>>Heh, I'm just glad I wasn't there in 96, like my father. He was held at
>>gunpoint before being evacuated, and then had to go back to Sierra Leone and
>>meet Johnny Paul Koromah, the guy who led the military coup de tat in 96. Not
>>exactly a pleasant experience! But yes, you're right, it is nice to talk about
>>it.
>I can imagine. I actually know people who were there in '96-'97 and
>who had to pay in order to get smuggled out of there into Liberia and
>Guinea, before heading to the Ivory Coast and catching a plane back to
>the UK. In fact, as I understand it, most all of the Lebanese
>businessmen (and the Indians) who actually kept the commerce going,
>have all left. In fact, I ran into one of the richest Lebanese
>businessmen (you probably heard of him), Jamil Sahid Mohamed, in
>London, back in '97 I think. He left just before he was wrongfully
>accused of conspiring to overthrow the government, by those who were
>envious of him being a foreigner (he was part Sierra Leonean and
>Lebanese) and being the richest man in the country. heh, it was funny
>running into him actually. I was at a restaurant on the Oxford Street
>end of Edgeware Road and in he comes, entourage in tow. <g>
Rub it in, rub it in. I'll be on Oxford Street too, one day! Well,
hopefully. Actually, I did hear that the Lebanese businessmen did get
a rather nasty going over during back then. And considering everyone
went through hell during that coup de tat, that's rather an
understatement. Though he sounds like he got out before the shit
really hit the fan - smart man.
>I plan on going back, in about 15 years, when its all settled down.
I fully intend to buy some land on the beach at some stage, and then
build myself a beautiful beach house overlooking the ocean. Or rather,
that's the plan. Hopefully in 15 years, not only will the situation
have calmed down - but the world will have become more of a global
village, and the distinctions between first and third worlds will be
less obvious. Or maybe that's just foolish optimism. We'll see.
Mike - Thinks he should check land prices now, they have to be pretty
cheap. Opportunistic bastard!
Clint
news:slrn8hrb7b....@rage.whitefang.com...
[ snip ]
> I wouldn't pay a dime if I thought the profits went toward the
> killing of people. Sadly we don't have a choice when we pay taxes.
You don't vote? You can't move to Sweden? What?
Clint
If any of you haven't already, pick up a copy of a phenomenal book by the
title: "White Man's Grave". Abso-frickin'-lutely hilarious!!! I'm only
mentioning it here because it takes place in Sierra Leone in the mid-'80's
and has a LOT of local flavor.
Geoffrey Tobin
...
> I wouldn't pay a dime if I thought the profits went toward the
> killing of people. Sadly we don't have a choice when we pay taxes.
Thamer, that observation prompts an excellent idea for a constitutional
amendment. Each taxpayer nominating what their contribution will
support.
It would keep governments in line, and taxpayers would soon become very
wise about the direction of their funds - for example, if they neglected
roads maintenance, then they'd realise when their car fell into a
pothole.
Yes, i vote for that amendment.
PS: You do get to vote for your nation's constitutional amendments,
don't you?
--
Best wishes!
Geoffrey Tobin
Email: G.T...@latrobe.edu.au
WWW: http://www.ee.latrobe.edu.au/~gt/gt.html
Geoffrey Tobin
>
> Mike - Working on some mojo right now, in fact. Doesnt work in
> Australia though. Damn!
You have to point the bone away from yourself, even if you are
undead. ;)
j/k
Geoffrey Tobin
...
> Mike - Thinks he should check land prices now, they have to be pretty
> cheap. Opportunistic bastard!
This is where rude reality hits wishful thinking on the head.
By your reports, an ex-pat land title in Sierra Leone is probably
worth about the same as a valid Palestinian land title in Jerusalem:
zip!