Gatorbox software

[Morgan Hewitt]

Hi,

I recently acquired a Gatorbox, the first one. That is, NOT the CS one.

Where can I get software for it? It won't work at all without the proper GatorSystem Installer. I'm already aware of this site (http://www.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/~pcfe/Gatorbox/) and it won't work with mine.

I was told the Gatorbox was popular with the A2 crowd, so I though I should ask.

Thanks, Morgan

[Christopher G. Mason]

Before giving up on the software, make sure your Mac is running "Classic
Networking", which is available in System 7.5 and older (7.5.2 and newer
comes with Open Transport). The Gator System software does not work with
Open Transport and by extension, most PowerPC Macs.

[Steven Hirsch]

On 10/01/2014 10:30 PM, Morgan Hewitt wrote:

> I recently acquired a Gatorbox, the first one. That is, NOT the CS one.

> Where can I get software for it? It won't work at all without the proper
> GatorSystem Installer. I'm already aware of this site
> (http://www.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/~pcfe/Gatorbox/) and it won't work with
> mine.

The original Gatorbox had to be bootstrapped from a server over the network.
I have one, along with (4) 800K Mac img files that are required to support it.
No documentation, unfortunately - you're on your own for that.

Drop me private e-mail with an address that can accept binary attachments and
I'll send you what I have.

Steve

[kb...@ymail.com]

Sent! Mine is blinking the red LED continously, but I can get it to show up in the GatorKeeper program, so it's not totally dead. Not that I know of, at least ;)

[roughana]

On Thursday, October 2, 2014 12:30:39 PM UTC+10, Morgan Hewitt wrote:
> Where can I get software for it?

http://alfter.us/wp/computers/apple-ii/software/archive/

I have tried to make the GatorBox page on Wikipedia a go-to point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GatorBox

Regards,
Andrew

[kb...@ymail.com]

On Thursday, October 2, 2014 5:52:13 PM UTC-6, roughana wrote:

> http://alfter.us/wp/computers/apple-ii/software/archive/

Wow that would have made things easier. Funny, I sent an email to that chap, never heard back. Every Google search turned up the old version. Nice.

Thanks Steve. :) I'll go with the alfter.us version for now. Yours survived the .zip transfer (probably because the .zip archive was made on a Mac I reckon) and is intact.

[Lisa2dotcom]

For other "new" Gatorbox owners who stumble on this thread please take note that (as Steve said) the original Gatorbox version runs it's OS out of volatile RAM memory that is lost whenever the unit is powered off.

Using this type Gatorbox requires you to have a TFTP server running on your network for the Gatorbox to load it's OS at power-up. The initial setup must be done with an older mac using System 7.5 or less and "classic" networking. The Gator software package includes at TFTP server you can run on the Mac for starting up the Gatorbox or you can use another TFTP server on your network if you want. Back in the day, most Gators were left on 24/7 and rarely needed to be reloaded using the TFTP server.

For the casual modern A2 collector or hobbyist is who typically was not planning on leaving their 25 year old Gatorbox powered on 24/7, this setup is less than ideal. A much better choice is any of the "newer" Gatorbox CS models. All the CS versions have internal flash memory and are "plug-and-play" much like a modern router.

Rick

[Scott Alfter]

In article <84c71729-6d6f-450a...@googlegroups.com>,

<kb...@ymail.com> wrote:
>On Thursday, October 2, 2014 5:52:13 PM UTC-6, roughana wrote:
>
>> http://alfter.us/wp/computers/apple-ii/software/archive/
>
>Wow that would have made things easier. Funny, I sent an email to that
>chap, never heard back. Every Google search turned up the old version.
>Nice.

I didn't see any email come through...if I had to guess, it was probably in
TMDA limbo and you didn't confirm it so it'd go through. I took a look in
there just now and didn't see anything, so if it was in there, it might've
expired.

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( http://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

[Christopher G. Mason]

On 10/3/2014 3:01 PM, Lisa2dotcom wrote:
> For the casual modern A2 collector or hobbyist is who typically was not planning on leaving their 25 year old Gatorbox powered on 24/7, this setup is less than ideal. A much better choice is any of the "newer" Gatorbox CS models. All the CS versions have internal flash memory and are "plug-and-play" much like a modern router.
>
> Rick
>

For what it's worth, the Kinetics/Shiva Fastpath isn't much better. The
Fastpath 5s have a completely RAM based operating system and the
internal batteries are usually dead by now. Luckily reloading the VROM
and K-STAR can be done on any Localtalk compatible Mac as the Shiva Net
Manager software is Open Transport compatible (it even works on OS X via
Classic once you get the router setup).

The Fastpath 4 has a basic Appletalk routing program in ROM so its
usually "plug and play". Only K-STAR (needed for TCP/IP routing) needs
to be loaded into RAM. It uses older software (Fastpath Manager) that
requires "classic networking". Both the FP4 and FP5 support loading
network routing and configuration data via an "atalkatab" file located
on a TFTP server so one doesn't have to use the software every time the
battery goes dead.

While I'm on the topic, does anyone here have the original Shiva
Fastpath 5 documentation? It would be nice to archive. Also, I have
written how-tos for setting up both the Fastpath 4 and Fastpath 5 for
anyone needing help getting them running.

For the original Gatorbox, one may look into adding TFTP firmware
loading via a Linux VM/RPi setup.

[Steven Hirsch]

On 10/04/2014 10:33 PM, Christopher G. Mason wrote:

> Also, I have written how-tos for
> setting up both the Fastpath 4 and Fastpath 5 for anyone needing help getting
> them running.

I'd be interested in seeing those. URL?

[Mike Spurgeon]

I realize he said NOT CS, however I have original Cayman Systems
Macintosh disks for Gatorbox CS:

GatorKeeper 3.0.2
Gator Installer 3.0.2
GatorSystem 3.0.2
Network applications version 2.5

Email me a US address and I'll send them out. First one will get them.

[kb...@ymail.com]

Image them and put them on Macintosh Garden? Or I could do it I guess. I'll send a message just in case.

Has anybody gotten the serial port to work on a GatorBox? I tried ZTerm .9 at 9600 8N1 and I tried the usual Return key and nothing happens. Other people say that you have to switch the switch (ha) to TEST position but there's no such thing on the original GB.

I'm trying to find out what it's for.

[kb...@ymail.com]

Well according to one of only two sources which I can dig up via Google, I need to move the Ethernet switch to TEST, which doesn't exist on a GatorBox 10100.

Anybody have the Hardware/Software Release Notes booklet? The Setting up your Gatorbox booklet? Technical Support Handbook?

I have the Network Reference and the User's Guide in PDF. None of them mention it.

[Scott Alfter]

In article <544480D5...@mikespurgeon.com>,

Mike Spurgeon <mi...@mikespurgeon.com> wrote:
>I realize he said NOT CS, however I have original Cayman Systems
>Macintosh disks for Gatorbox CS:
>
>GatorKeeper 3.0.2
>Gator Installer 3.0.2
>GatorSystem 3.0.2
>Network applications version 2.5

I've had the last available versions on my website for a few years now. In
the last reorganization, they were moved to this page:

http://alfter.us/wp/computers/apple-ii/software/archive/

(Old links should get a 301 redirect to the new location.)

These were downloaded from Netopia's website (Netopia had acquired Cayman at
some point) around the time I had bought my GatorBox CS. The images are
password-protected, but they had provided passwords for all of the files as
well. Everything's available in one relatively small (~10MB) zipball.

[kb...@ymail.com]

Still looking for any manuals...

[roughana]

On Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:26:46 AM UTC+11, kb...@ymail.com wrote:
> Has anybody gotten the serial port to work on [an original] GatorBox? Other people say that you have to switch the switch (ha) to TEST position but there's no such thing on the original GB.

> Anybody have the Hardware/Software Release Notes booklet? The Setting up your Gatorbox booklet? Technical Support Handbook?
> I have the Network Reference and the User's Guide in PDF. None of them mention it.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3GIh92CYAAY5Jx.jpg

"Serial Port - The serial port is used by Cayman Engineering to run diagnostics on the GatorBox hardware. The serial port is not intended for end-user use. Specifically, the serial port cannot be used to connect the GatorBox to a modem, printer, or serial device."

Regards,
Andrew

[kb...@ymail.com]

Well that clears things up. Wonder why it's different on the CS versus the original.

Can anybody here scan any such manuals for the benefit of posterity? I have the time to do it, but not the manuals. :)

[pitz]

On Thursday, November 20, 2014 8:28:56 AM UTC-8, kb...@ymail.com wrote:
> Still looking for any manuals...

A recently-end auction (September) for the same GatorBox model 10100 included the original manuals -- perhaps getting in touch with the seller to initiate some e-mail conversation with the auction winner? http://www.ebay.com/itm/181532640087

It included the "Setting Up Your GatorBox" installation guide that I also have not been able to find any copy of.

Or maybe look up Michael McCoy who's the author of those manuals http://www.riyality.com/michael/resume.htm

[roughana]

On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 3:16:36 AM UTC+11, kb...@ymail.com wrote:
> Can anybody here scan any such manuals for the benefit of posterity?

I provided this extract to Scott for hosting with the software, but doesn't look like he put it up.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s35vx2vc29bjka4/SettingUpGatorBoxOriginal.pdf?dl=0

Regards,
Andrew

[roughana]

On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 2:13:48 PM UTC+11, pitz wrote:
> A recently ended auction (September) for the same GatorBox model 10100 included the original manuals

I believe I have all those manuals. I'm happy to scan them as I can.
Perhaps Scott would be prepared to host them with the software?

Regards,
Andrew

[kb...@ymail.com]

I spoke to the chap who sold those on eBay. He's on the vintage-computer.com forums, although not an active member. Working with him, he was able to scan the two binders that he had: GatorBox User's Guide and Cayman Network Reference. I also worked with someone on thinkclassic who ran them through Acrobat X Pro which shrank the size of the PDFs by almost 50%.

I have both added to my website: http://www.applefool.com/se30

I've added them in PDF in the Download Town.

Mainly I regret not working with the seller on VCF the moment he put that post on VCF to scan those manuals.

Knowing someone that has a GatorBox (original) allowed me to figure out how to set up the MacIP routing. The addition of the other booklets, scanned and OCR'd with care helps to round out what we know about the GatorBox.

[kb...@ymail.com]

Forgot to add:

The PDF that is a part of Setting up your GatorBox is just for the TFTP server setup. As part of the Guide, I didn't explore TFTP because the GatorBox is only useful for machines that have System 6 through 7.5. Those said machines just so happen to be compatible with setting up the GatorBox configuration file in the first place before you can set it up via TFTP. Chicken & egg.

You can use the GatorBox up to Mac OS 8.6 according to Apple, they say MacIP doesn't work in OS 9. Almost every Mac that requires 8.0+ has some kind of native Ethernet or PCMCIA card solution which is not only faster than the GatorBox's MacIP routing but is easier to use.

[Scott Alfter]

In article <62548293-a9c5-402f...@googlegroups.com>,

If someone can get scans of the manuals to me, by all means I'll go ahead
and host them. What little I've figured out of the GatorBox CS
configuration was a mix of what was on the web (mostly
https://www.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/~pcfe/Gatorbox/) and experimentation.

[Scott Alfter]

In article <m52io3$i7i$1...@dont-email.me>,

Scott Alfter <sc...@alfter.diespammersdie.us> wrote:
>In article <62548293-a9c5-402f...@googlegroups.com>,
>roughana <andrew....@writeme.com> wrote:
>>On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 2:13:48 PM UTC+11, pitz wrote:
>>> A recently ended auction (September) for the same GatorBox model 10100
>>included the original manuals
>>
>>I believe I have all those manuals. I'm happy to scan them as I can.
>>Perhaps Scott would be prepared to host them with the software?
>
>If someone can get scans of the manuals to me, by all means I'll go ahead
>and host them. What little I've figured out of the GatorBox CS
>configuration was a mix of what was on the web (mostly
>https://www.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/~pcfe/Gatorbox/) and experimentation.

...and shortly after I posted that, I saw that someone had put the manuals
up for download. I've mirrored them:

http://alfter.us/wp/computers/apple-ii/software/archive/

[pitz]

I remember using the serial port on a GatorBox GXR. As mentioned, it's not meant for an outgoing connection from the GatorBox itself -- it was a terminal interface to the GatorBox; the same interface you would receive if TCP/IP has already been configured and you telnet to the GatorBox.

There is a separate manual/guide describing the menu-driven command-line interface; it was harder to configure the GatorBox using this interface, so I used it mainly to reset the GatorBox settings, and perform the rest of the configuration from a Mac once the GatorBox becomes visible to the Mac.

[Scott Alfter]

In article <45ec10ea-aecc-4238...@googlegroups.com>,

I checked my email (including the TMDA holding pen) and didn't see anything.
It's up now.

[kb...@ymail.com]

I think it would be proper to provide credit to the good folks who scanned and processed them. (Errr perhaps I should say where I got that GatorBox software in my downloads...)

For 20 years the internet has not seen these GatorBox manuals. I think it's time to change that :).

roughana, we would be indebted to you if you were able to do it, and if the scans were of high quality (no tilted pages, proper orientation, in proper order, etc).

[Scott Alfter]

In article <bba9adb8-5b20-46ce...@googlegroups.com>,

<kb...@ymail.com> wrote:
>I think it would be proper to provide credit to the good folks who
>scanned and processed them. (Errr perhaps I should say where I got that
>GatorBox software in my downloads...)

"There is no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who
gets the credit."

That said, I've added attribution (as best as I could figure out) to the
manual links:

https://alfter.us/wp/computers/apple-ii/software/archive/

In other news, I've also made encryption mandatory. :-) Your old links all
still work; they're 301-redirected from http://whatever to https://whatever.

[roughana]

On Wednesday, November 26, 2014 4:34:33 AM UTC+11, kb...@ymail.com wrote:
> The PDF that is a part of Setting up your GatorBox is just for the TFTP server setup.

Look at Scenario 1 on 3-5 and instructions on 3-10 for avoiding use of TFTP when using a local Macintosh as the download server.

> As part of the Guide, I didn't explore TFTP because the GatorBox is only useful for machines that have System 6 through 7.5. Those said machines just so happen to be compatible with setting up the GatorBox configuration file in the first place before you can set it up via TFTP. Chicken & egg.

I don't understand from what you have said why there is a problem.

Regards,
Andrew

[kb...@ymail.com]

On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 7:15:44 PM UTC-7, roughana wrote:
>
> I don't understand from what you have said why there is a problem.
>
> Regards,
> Andrew

The portion of Setting up your GatorBox posted here (and included with Scott's download) is primarily focused on setting up TFTP. The only problem is that working with TFTP to upload the configuration information to the GatorBox has to occur after it has been set up properly on a compatible Mac first. It just so happens that most of the Macs that would benefit from the GatorBox are also suitable for setting it up normally.

Maybe I just reiterated what I said earlier. So perhaps I should say that we need the missing elements to round out our document collection, i.e. the rest of the booklet. I've heard of people snapping up GatorBoxes but lacking any documentation whatsoever on them: I suppose it befalls us to solve that problem.

[roughana]

On Wednesday, November 26, 2014 5:10:52 PM UTC+11, kb...@ymail.com wrote:
> The portion of Setting up your GatorBox posted here is primarily focused on setting up TFTP.

Yes, but the first scenario does not involve TFTP.

> So perhaps I should say that we need the missing elements to round out our document collection, i.e. the rest of the booklet.

I've scanned it and requested that Scott permanently host it on his site.
Meanwhile, here's a temporary location.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bfi3c4p44cfq31e/SettingUpYourGatorBox.pdf?dl=0

Regards,
Andrew

[kb...@ymail.com]

On Thursday, November 27, 2014 7:42:07 PM UTC-7, roughana wrote:
> I've scanned it and requested that Scott permanently host it on his site.
> Meanwhile, here's a temporary location.
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/bfi3c4p44cfq31e/SettingUpYourGatorBox.pdf?dl=0
>
> Regards,
> Andrew

Nice. Thank you for that!

Is there any other documents that you can scan for the benefit of the community?

I'll toss it up on my site too. You'll be given credit.

[Scott Alfter]

In article <da541d2c-2dba-4edc...@googlegroups.com>,

...and it's up:

https://alfter.us/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/SettingUpYourGatorBox.pdf

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)

(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!

[junip...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 at 5:37:22 PM UTC-5, kb...@ymail.com wrote:

> For 20 years the internet has not seen these GatorBox manuals. I think it's time to change that :).

Hi,

Stumbled across this thread by accident today. I was the writer for most of the Cayman manuals. If you tell me which ones you're interested in (and whether you require specific versions), I'll see if I still have those docs in hardcopy or in electronic format.

Michael

[Antoine Vignau]

Hi Michael,
I manage the Apple II Documentation Project website where I gather manuals, disks, etc. of Apple II related items.
I'd be happy to host the manuals there. If you agree, let me know, I'd provide you with an email address.

Thank you,
Antoine