Best GUI Builder
Matt Schmill
Basically, I want to write a game and need editors for objects in the game and such and would like a nice GUI, without hand-coding the editor's guis. All I would need is buttons, checkboxes, string gads, etc.. and something to produce good C code for them.
Suggestions ? Warnings ?
thanks.
Matt Schmill
UMass EKSL
sch...@cs.umass.edu
Peter Morawiec
: Anybody have any opinions on which is the best intuition/MUI interface
: builder ?
: Basically, I want to write a game and need editors for objects in the game and such and would like a nice GUI, without hand-coding the editor's guis. All I would need is buttons, checkboxes, string gads, etc..
: and something to produce good C code for them.
: Suggestions ? Warnings ?
MUI seems to be the popular choice right now. It has a lot of features,
font sensitivity and is completely configurable via a clever prefs program.
However, it is a very large package and is quite slow even on my 'warped'
A4000. My pick? GadToolsBox -- small, fast and very easy to use. Both are
shareware and available on Aminet.
Kandutsch Johannes
: Anybody have any opinions on which is the best intuition/MUI interface builder ?
: Basically, I want to write a game and need editors for objects in the game and such and would like a nice GUI, without hand-coding the editor's guis. All I would need is buttons, checkboxes, string gads, etc.. and something to produce good C code for them.
:
: Suggestions ? Warnings ?
The version 2.2 of MUI is fast enough for Amigas with CPU's >= 68020. Although
it is very easy to program a MUI application, MUI-Builder V1.1 should be a
good help for you.
MUI-Builder is available on Aminet (maybe dev/gui ?)
I also used Gadtoolsbox for building a "normal" GUI, but to my mind it's very
hard to add fontsensitivness, resizeability and other great features comes
with MUI.
regards Hannes User of a damned faceless PC/486
geting his kick on a A4000/030
Kandutsch Johannes
: Matt Schmill (sch...@giane.cs.umass.edu) wrote:
: : Anybody have any opinions on which is the best intuition/MUI interface
: : builder ?
:
: : Basically, I want to write a game and need editors for objects in the game and such and would like a nice GUI, without hand-coding the editor's guis. All I would need is buttons, checkboxes, string gads, etc..
: : and something to produce good C code for them.
:
: : Suggestions ? Warnings ?
:
: MUI seems to be the popular choice right now. It has a lot of features,
: font sensitivity and is completely configurable via a clever prefs program.
: However, it is a very large package and is quite slow even on my 'warped'
: A4000.
^^^^^^^
Are you using MUI 1.0????
On my A4000/030 there is nearly no diffrence between normal and MUI GUI.
I am using MUI 2.2 --> fast and powerful!!
Matt Schmill
|> Matt Schmill (sch...@giane.cs.umass.edu) wrote:
|> The version 2.2 of MUI is fast enough for Amigas with CPU's >= 68020. Although
|> it is very easy to program a MUI application, MUI-Builder V1.1 should be a
|> good help for you.
|> MUI-Builder is available on Aminet (maybe dev/gui ?)
I get many enforcer hits with MUI-Builder V1.1. In fact, it gets such a fierce one evey time I tried it, it would crash my machine. (A3000, 6M, no extra hardware, sofkicked) This is not acceptable. I liked it otherwise, except that it was sluggish even on my 25MHz 68030. Is there a stable MUIBuilder ?
Also, when I made columns, every time I added a item it would warn me that I didn't have enough to fill the columns. this was EXTREMELY annoying.
I think I'll try GadToolsBox.
Matt
Andreas Jung
I get many enforcer hits with MUI-Builder V1.1. In fact, it gets such a fierce one evey time I tried it, it would crash my machine. (A3000, 6M, no extra hardware, sofkicked) This is not acceptable. I liked it otherwise, except that it was sluggish even on my 25MHz 68030. Is there a stable MUIBuilder ?
: Also, when I made columns, every time I added a item it would warn me that I didn't have enough to fill the columns. this was EXTREMELY annoying.
There will be a new version of MUIBuilder available soon which supports
most features of MUI 2.2 like notifications and menus and many more.
We are currently testing MUIB and the current version feels quite good.
// Andreas Jung, Klosterstr. 21, D-66125 Saarbruecken
\\ // Universitaet des Saarlandes
\X/ EMail: aj...@cs.uni-sb.de , IRC: YET
------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Only Amiga makes it possible <<<
Danny Wong
it. It has many features over ther GUI's designers. Where can i find a copy?
try Aminet dev/gui/VisualArts1_1.lha. Want more info? send me a mail.
+---------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+
| Danny Y. Wong | Amiga For The Creative Mind |
| Calgary, Alberta |-----------------------------------------------|
| dan...@foul.cuug.ab.ca | Visual Arts: The Art of Visualization |
+---------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+
Matt Schmill
Peter Morawiec
: Peter Morawiec (pet...@netcom.com) wrotte:
: : font sensitivity and is completely configurable via a clever prefs program.
: : However, it is a very large package and is quite slow even on my 'warped'
^^^^^^^^
: : A4000.
: ^^^^^^^
: Are you using MUI 1.0????
: On my A4000/030 there is nearly no diffrence between normal and MUI GUI.
: I am using MUI 2.2 --> fast and powerful!!
Try manipulating complex windows on a large 256 color WB Screen under
MUI and you will definitelly notice the difference ;) However, whichever
way you go, it would be nice if the Amiga community decided on a standard...
Or at least, the authors could provide some SMALL versions of their
gui packages (ie. the library file only + a copyright/PD/shareware notice),
which would be legal to distribute with programs that require them...
Marat Fayzullin
: I guess you guy haven't tried Visual Arts yet? I suggest you take a look at
: it. It has many features over ther GUI's designers. Where can i find a copy?
: try Aminet dev/gui/VisualArts1_1.lha. Want more info? send me a mail.
Sorry, but could you move your advertising activities somewhere else?
It is getting really annoying to see all your posts offering to try
VisualArts.
Kev Digweed
More than this, I downloaded it and tried it. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't
cut it. I found so many silly problems/limitations with it in about 5 minutes
that I immediately removed it from my hard drive.
Kev.
--
Kevin. Micro Focus, Newbury, UK. (k...@mfltd.co.uk)
These views are strictly my own.
I doubt very much that anyone else would want them.
Matthias Meixner
: I have tried it. It has some nice features, but I just want a quickie free thing, as the gui building I'll be doing is just for some editors for data files for a much larger product. Also, I find it kind of hard to get things lined up perfect, and I also want to be able to go back and edit things like gadget size after I've already created the gadget.
You could try 'gengui', which you can find on aminet. It uses a description language
and therefore you can get things lined up very easily. It generates resizeable and
font-sensitive GUIs from this description.
--
- Matthias Meixner
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wir sitzen alle in einem Boot -- aber manche muessen rudern ....
Matt Weatherford
callable functions?
(for those of us who are SCRIPT coders...)
--
Matt Weatherford Atlantis Diagnostics Int'l (206) 487-7826 ma...@atl.com
Dianne Hackborn
| Or at least, the authors could provide some SMALL versions of their
| gui packages (ie. the library file only + a copyright/PD/shareware notice),
| which would be legal to distribute with programs that require them...
I believe the distribution for my gadoutline.library states that you can
include a subset of the complete distribution if you become a registered
developer. And I could probably be talked into letting you include it,
even if you don't you don't register, as long as you ask me really really
nicely. ;)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dianne Kyra Hackborn "Nuclear explosions under the Nevada desert?
hac...@mail.cs.orst.edu What the fuck are we testing for?
BIX: dhack / IRC: Dianne We already know the shit blows up."
Oregon State University -- Frank Zappa
Christian Pekeler
In article <1994Sep1.2...@atl.com> ma...@atl.com (Matt Weatherford) writes:
> Do either of the mentioned packages (GadToolBox, MUI) have AREXX or Command-line
> callable functions?
>
from the MUI.doc-file:
[]
- System integration
MUI applications cooperate with the operating system in many ways.
Every program can be iconified and uniconified by pushing a gadget
or by using the Commodities exchange program. Furthermore, every
MUI application has an ARexx-Port that allows you full remote
control (and more) over the user interface.
[]
built-in ARexx Port
===================
Every MUI application is able to receive commands via the built-in
ARexx port. Here are some default commands which are understood by
every program:
- QUIT
Ends the application.
- HIDE
Hides (iconifies) the application
- SHOW
Shows (pops up) an iconified application.
- INFO ITEM/A
According to the given parameter the result string is filled with
the following contents:
- "title" Title of the application
- "author" Author of the application
- "copyright" Copyright message
- "description" Short description
- "version" Version string
- "base" Name of the ARexx port
- "screen" Name of the public screen
- HELP FILE/A
A list of all ARexx commands available for the application is
written into the given file. In addition to the default commands an
MUI application can (and of course should) support many application
specific commands. The help list will contain these commands as
well.
In case of an error, MUI returns the following values to the rexx
script:
- -1
Wrong command definition in host program. Should never happen.
- -2
Out of memory.
- -3
Unknown ARexx command.
- -4
Syntax error.
Some example scripts can be found in the `Rexx' drawer on the main
directory of the distribution.
[]
CLI Interface
=============
The MUI preferences program supplies a small CLI interface that can
be used to give other programs access to MUI's built-in screen manager
utility.
The syntax is:
NAME,OPEN/S,CLOSE/S
NAME:
Name of a preconfigured public screen
OPEN:
Open screen
CLOSE:
Close screen
Michael Rivers
other libraries(Req,ReqTools etc.) are going to make 2.0 - 3.1
amigas look like 1.3 again, every program with differenttly
operating intefaces, goofy file reqs etc. Cmon people, use
GadTools and ASL, cause your wasting my ram with all these
extra-do-the-samething-as-ASL-or-GadTools libraries.
* Q-Blue v0.7 [NR] *
Mike Austin
other day. My god, it's >600k! I know it's a nice interface and
provides virtual class gadgets (that aren't very usefull, but look cool)
and all that, but I can't beleive it's >600k compressed. I've never
programmed for triton before, but I think I'll give it a go. It's got
keyboard shortcuts, resizable GUI, and it's not that big. Or maybe I'll
try gadoutline, which the author of term 4.0 uses. I think I'm babbling,
sorry. #B^)
--
cout << "cm...@netcom.com" << endl;
<< I get more junk e-mail than junk mail! >>
Simon Brown
<TCHONK! Mike strikes the proverbial nail right on it's proverbial little
head.>
--
Simon "Fisty" Brown | E-Mail: si...@amdev.demon.co.uk
Ace A-Wing pilot, freelance software | Amazing Developments:
developer, and all-round nice bloke. | When we develop something, it's amazing.
"Do you tango?" - Arnold Schwarzenegger
Peter Morawiec
: I have downloaded MUI a while back so I decided to give 2.2 a chance the
: provides virtual class gadgets (that aren't very usefull, but look cool)
: and all that, but I can't beleive it's >600k compressed. I've never
: programmed for triton before, but I think I'll give it a go. It's got
: keyboard shortcuts, resizable GUI, and it's not that big. Or maybe I'll
: try gadoutline, which the author of term 4.0 uses. I think I'm babbling,
: sorry. #B^)
Also, let's not forget that GadToosBox works with standard GadTools, so
if you use it to design your GUI, no extra library is necessary for
other people to run it. Fast, efficient and 100% OS compliant -- IMO
that's the way it should be.
- Peter "No-Sig" Morawiec
Christoph Feck IRZ
> I have downloaded MUI a while back so I decided to give 2.2 a chance the
> other day. My god, it's >600k! I know it's a nice interface and
The main library is 'only' 200k, there are lots of demos, images
and some useless stuff (like a MagicWB advertising screen) in it.
> provides virtual class gadgets (that aren't very usefull, but look cool)
> and all that, but I can't beleive it's >600k compressed. I've never
> programmed for triton before, but I think I'll give it a go. It's got
> keyboard shortcuts, resizable GUI, and it's not that big. Or maybe I'll
> try gadoutline, which the author of term 4.0 uses. I think I'm babbling,
> sorry. #B^)
Olaf wrote his own library, it is not GadOutline.
3k// Christoph Feck, TowerSystems - BOOPSI Class Development
\X/ Amiga - Intuition inside.
Neil Clark CS90
>: MUI seems to be the popular choice right now. It has a lot of features,
>: font sensitivity and is completely configurable via a clever prefs program.
>: However, it is a very large package and is quite slow even on my 'warped'
> ^^^^^^^^
>: A4000.
> ^^^^^^^
I have to say that I have encountered no problems with speed using MUI 2.2 on
my vanilla 1200. It is fast, even though I have ENV: and T: assigned to my hard disk.
I look forward to developing using MUI when I have more time. Long live MUI !
Neil.
Bernd Koesling
> I have downloaded MUI a while back so I decided to give 2.2 a chance the
> other day. My god, it's >600k! I know it's a nice interface and
> provides virtual class gadgets (that aren't very usefull, but look cool)
> and all that, but I can't beleive it's >600k compressed. I've never
Stripping all the images/patterns/brushes/etc. you do not intend to use
for your personal setup might change your mind again.
They are a major part of the distribution and should be seen as a
suggestion to the user. Simply delete what you don't want.
A minimum set could take:
Boopsies 37k
Classes 212k
muimaster.library 192k
Prefs/MUI 78k
Envarc/mui ~1k per application
(that's <600k uncompressed)
That's MUIs flexibility - you can shrink it down to look&feel like simple
GadTools or blow it up to make your Workbench look&feel like a gameshow.
Best is - as almost - somewhere inbetween :-)
Have Fun - Koessi
p.s. MUI surely isn't very useful on a bare A500, but real pleasure on a
A3/4k with some 1280x1024x256-gfx-board.
Steve Koren
> In article <mriver...@tbag.tscs.com> mri...@tbag.tscs.com (Michael Rivers) writes:
> >operating intefaces, goofy file reqs etc. Cmon people, use
> >GadTools and ASL, cause your wasting my ram with all these
> >extra-do-the-samething-as-ASL-or-GadTools libraries.
>
> <TCHONK! Mike strikes the proverbial nail right on it's proverbial little
> head.>
Ditto. I *really* hate programs which feel the need to re-implement the
ASL filerequester. In 2.04, the ASL requester was just so-so - it was
slow and only moderately usable. But in 3.0, the ASL requester is
*good*. Real good. Re-inventions in various programs invariably never
get it right. Here are some feature of ASL which are usually lacking
when people re-invent the wheel:
* asynchronous behavior - you can select things, change dirs, etc,
while it is still reading the directory. The EGS file requester
lacks this behavior.
* Font support - it pays attention to your system font. The Imagine
requester, Lightwave requester, and many others do not.
* It has useful keyboard shortcuts - tab cycling between input fields,
and more importantly, arrow keys for moving up and down the list of
files. The EGS one lacks this too, which I find just terribly
annoying. (So do most others, in fact).
* It has a simple completion mechanism - you can type part of a name,
and it will update to the closest matching filename for you. This
is *very* handy on large directories, and I have never seen another
file requester provide this ability, on any OS.
* When ASL improves, you get the improvements for free.
* Custom file requesters often lack the ability to display file sizes
and date.
* Custom file requesters often lack pattern gadgets.
* Custom requesters often lack the ability to be resized, or to
intelligently lay themselves out if the selected size is too small
for the presented information.
* Last but not least, if you use ASL, the user can patch the library
base to use whatever requester they want. But if you roll your own,
the user is stuck with it. Also, the whole system is smaller and
more effecient with a single copy of file requester code, not one
copy for each application.
I have no idea why so many applications insist on inventing their own,
invariably poor, file requester. Even "high end" apps such as Lightwave
are guilty of this. The ASL one is very easy to use, and in 3.0, works
very well.
If C= was still alive, I think they should have implemented a program to
"qualify" applications. Among other things, this would involve insuring
enforcer-cleanliness, compatibility with all CPUs, use of real system
requesters such as ASL file and font requesters, display database
support if applicable, and whatever else made sense. If your app was
qualified, you could market it as such, and maybe get it on a list of
"well behaved" qualified apps.
- steve (just a pet peeve of mine, if its not obvious :-) )
Hans-Joerg Frieden
>In article <mriver...@tbag.tscs.com> mri...@tbag.tscs.com (Michael Rivers) writes:
>>What's wrong with GadTools? People who use MUI and all those
>>other libraries(Req,ReqTools etc.) are going to make 2.0 - 3.1
>>amigas look like 1.3 again, every program with differenttly
>>operating intefaces, goofy file reqs etc. Cmon people, use
>>GadTools and ASL, cause your wasting my ram with all these
>>extra-do-the-samething-as-ASL-or-GadTools libraries.
><TCHONK! Mike strikes the proverbial nail right on it's proverbial little
>head.>
Sorry, but that's not true. If you do not change anything in the MUI
Preferences program, it looks exactly like a gadtools program. The point
is, that I can change this look to suit my taste. I like XEN_hi MUCH
better than plain GadTools look. And Besides, MUI does much more than
gadtools.
Regards, Hans-Joerg.
Christoph Feck IRZ
> Sorry, but that's not true. If you do not change anything in the MUI
> Preferences program, it looks exactly like a gadtools program. The point
It does not:
- Props and sliders lack feedback, when you click on them!
- The default size of buttons is two pixels to small. If you make
them bigger, the cycle image in the cycle gadget doesn't grow,
and it looks horrible.
- On monochrome screens, you will see "black on black" if you click
on a button. In listviews, the cursor is just a frame.
- With a topaz8 font, the checkbox image is rendered terrible.
> is, that I can change this look to suit my taste. I like XEN_hi MUCH
> better than plain GadTools look. And Besides, MUI does much more than
> gadtools.
...and is TEN times as big!
Hans-Joerg Frieden
>In article <inf01.779017475@apollo23>, in...@apollo23.uni-trier.de (Hans-Joerg Frieden) writes:
>> Sorry, but that's not true. If you do not change anything in the MUI
>> Preferences program, it looks exactly like a gadtools program. The point
>It does not:
>- Props and sliders lack feedback, when you click on them!
What do you mean by feedback? Inverting the knob?
>- The default size of buttons is two pixels to small. If you make
> them bigger, the cycle image in the cycle gadget doesn't grow,
> and it looks horrible.
OK, MUI isn't perfect, but then, I don't use default settings.
>- On monochrome screens, you will see "black on black" if you click
> on a button. In listviews, the cursor is just a frame.
I never checked what GadTools does on a mono screen.
>- With a topaz8 font, the checkbox image is rendered terrible.
With topaz-8, almost everything looks terrible 8)
>> is, that I can change this look to suit my taste. I like XEN_hi MUCH
>> better than plain GadTools look. And Besides, MUI does much more than
>> gadtools.
>...and is TEN times as big!
OK, it is big. If it is too big for someone to use, then bad luck for
him. I'd really like to run NetBSD on my Amiga, but since I do not
have enough disk space, does this make NetBSD bad? MUI _is_ bigger
than GadTools, but it offers much more than GadTools, for the
programmer as well as for the user.
Regards, Hans-Joerg.
LARS-ERIK WOLLAN
>>> is, that I can change this look to suit my taste. I like XEN_hi MUCH
>>> better than plain GadTools look. And Besides, MUI does much more than
>>> gadtools.
>
>>...and is TEN times as big!
>OK, it is big. If it is too big for someone to use, then bad luck for
>him. I'd really like to run NetBSD on my Amiga, but since I do not
>have enough disk space, does this make NetBSD bad? MUI _is_ bigger
>than GadTools, but it offers much more than GadTools, for the
>programmer as well as for the user.
>
>Regards, Hans-Joerg.
>
that gadtools.library is nice (yes, I HAVE tested MUI).
-- Lars-Erik Wollan
Gael Marziou
Steve> I have no idea why so many applications insist on inventing their
Steve> own, invariably poor, file requester.
I can give you a very good example IMHO.
Denis Gounelle author of Abackup created his own file requester just
because the asl one is not able of multi volumes selection and tehre's
nothing you can say against that.
--
Gael Marziou
Hewlett Packard Grenoble Networks Division Lab Tel: (+33) 76 62 10 90
38053 GRENOBLE Cedex 09 - FRANCE Fax: (+33) 76 62 12 86
Email: Gael_M...@grenoble.hp.com Telnet: 779-5995
Jeffery Carter May
>>other libraries(Req,ReqTools etc.) are going to make 2.0 - 3.1
>>amigas look like 1.3 again, every program with differenttly
>>operating intefaces, goofy file reqs etc. Cmon people, use
>>GadTools and ASL, cause your wasting my ram with all these
>>extra-do-the-samething-as-ASL-or-GadTools libraries.
>
><TCHONK! Mike strikes the proverbial nail right on it's proverbial little
>head.>
More importantly, people who use things like MUI or such are crippling their
software by making it dependent on somebody else's program.
No offense to Stefan, who's MUI is a brilliant system, but if I write a piece
of software, I want it to run on ANYONE's machine. I don't want to require my
users to have to go get MUI or some other system just to use my program. MUI
does some nice things, but most of them are not that hard to handle. Resizable
GUIs are not that hard to do; the worst part is the font sensitivity with
proportional fonts. The ARexx port is nice, but this isn't too hard to put in
by hand either.
I'd rather build my own GUI, and have it work on anyone's machine. It's not
that hard, and it makes life easier for the end user.
--
AA AA i Jeffery C. May ONLY
A A A A President, Amiga Atlanta, Inc. Users' Group AMIGA
AAAA AAAA i Senior EE, Georgia Institute of Technology MAKES IT
A A A A i gt1...@prism.gatech.edu POSSIBLE
Cedric Beust
: I'd rather build my own GUI, and have it work on anyone's machine. It's not
: that hard, and it makes life easier for the end user.
Develop tens of programs, each one rewriting the same old GUI
code (and gadtools' code is long, almost as long as X!), falling
in the same traps each time, and maybe you'll begin to consider
a trade off between no GUI-assistance at all and using MUI. There
are very goot intermediary libraries (link libraries for
example, since relying on an external library seems to disturb
you) between these two extremes, no doubt you will eventually
use one of them.
--
Cedric BEUST, Bull Research Koala project
click <A HREF="http://zenon.inria.fr:8003/koala/beust.html">here</A>
Christoph Feck IRZ
> fe...@informatik.uni-kl.de (Christoph Feck IRZ) writes:
> >> Sorry, but that's not true. If you do not change anything in the MUI
> >> Preferences program, it looks exactly like a gadtools program. The point
>
> >It does not:
> >- Props and sliders lack feedback, when you click on them!
> What do you mean by feedback? Inverting the knob?
Yes. I always think my mouse button is defunct :)
Click -> no response... The user NEEDS feedback. It is one
of the main concepts of a user interface (being it graphical
or not). Read some good books about user interfaces.
> >- The default size of buttons is two pixels to small. If you make
> > them bigger, the cycle image in the cycle gadget doesn't grow,
> > and it looks horrible.
> OK, MUI isn't perfect, but then, I don't use default settings.
You wrote "If you do not change anything...", so I assumed you
were talking about the default settings, weren't you?
> >- On monochrome screens, you will see "black on black" if you click
> > on a button. In listviews, the cursor is just a frame.
> I never checked what GadTools does on a mono screen.
It uses the FILLTEXTPEN, which will be color 0, so it is visible
on a color 1 FILLPEN. MUI only uses TEXTPEN, even if it matches
the FILLPEN... This actually has NOTHING to do with monochrome
screens. Starting with OS 3.0 we can change the FILLPEN to any
value. MUI should respect the users settings, not ignore them.
> >- With a topaz8 font, the checkbox image is rendered terrible.
> With topaz-8, almost everything looks terrible 8)
Actually, on a 640x256 screen topaz8 looks good, because of
the aspect of the font. If I had a graphics card, I would use
a 1400x700 screen with topaz8 :) It looks awesome, believe me!
> >> is, that I can change this look to suit my taste. I like XEN_hi MUCH
> >> better than plain GadTools look. And Besides, MUI does much more than
> >> gadtools.
>
> >...and is TEN times as big!
> OK, it is big. If it is too big for someone to use, then bad luck for
> him. I'd really like to run NetBSD on my Amiga, but since I do not
> have enough disk space, does this make NetBSD bad? MUI _is_ bigger
> than GadTools, but it offers much more than GadTools, for the
> programmer as well as for the user.
Ok, it offers more. But the features it offers don't justify
the size of the libraries. Look how big "Gauge.mui" is. And
what does it do? Paint a rectangle. Same for other classes.
"MUI symbolizes an excellent idea, a weak design, and a poor
implementation." - me
Steve Dunham
: In article <inf01.779364264@apollo23>, in...@apollo23.uni-trier.de (Hans-Joerg Frieden) writes:
: > fe...@informatik.uni-kl.de (Christoph Feck IRZ) writes:
: > >- Props and sliders lack feedback, when you click on them!
: > What do you mean by feedback? Inverting the knob?
: Yes. I always think my mouse button is defunct :)
: Click -> no response... The user NEEDS feedback. It is one
: of the main concepts of a user interface (being it graphical
: or not). Read some good books about user interfaces.
I second this point. This is why Intuition on a 14MHz 68020 feels so
much faster than MS-Win on a 486/33 - It's running on a real-time OS.
You get instant response to everything.
: [...]
: "MUI symbolizes an excellent idea, a weak design, and a poor
: implementation." - me
("It's hard to do a good implementation of a poor design." - me)
Could you write us a better one? (I don't have the time.) Maybe just a
good Layout gadget...
Steve
dun...@gdl.msu.edu
Dianne Hackborn
| Most Gadtools interfaces do not look very good, either. At least MUI
| adapts to font sizes, even with default settings. Most GadTools
| interfaces I know (including Commodore's) either have hardcoded topaz8
| fonts or do not handle font sizes correctly (I've seen this even with
| Term, which does rubbish with proportional fonts).
GadOutline does a decent job laying out GadTools gadgets. IMHO. ;)
-------------------------------------------------------
Dianne Kyra Hackborn "Jazz is not dead,
hac...@mail.cs.orst.edu it just smells funny."
BIX: dhack / IRC: Dianne
Simon Brown
In article <GAEL.94Se...@gnlab027.grenoble.hp.com> ga...@gnlab027.grenoble.hp.com (Gael Marziou) writes:
>
>Steve> I have no idea why so many applications insist on inventing their
>Steve> own, invariably poor, file requester.
>
>I can give you a very good example IMHO.
>Denis Gounelle author of Abackup created his own file requester just
>because the asl one is not able of multi volumes selection and tehre's
>nothing you can say against that.
So he had a *good* reason for doing it. But not many of those others do.
--
Simon "Fisty" Brown | E-Mail: si...@amdev.demon.co.uk
Ace A-Wing pilot, freelance software | Amazing Developments:
developer, and all-round nice bloke. | When we develop something, it's amazing.
+-- Insult generator, Mk III -----------------------------------------------+
| Your dentist pickled Eddie 'The Eagle' Edwards, nasty it was. |
+------------------------------------------- All normal disclaimers apply --+
Hans-Joerg Frieden
>> >- Props and sliders lack feedback, when you click on them!
>> What do you mean by feedback? Inverting the knob?
>Yes. I always think my mouse button is defunct :)
>Click -> no response... The user NEEDS feedback. It is one
>of the main concepts of a user interface (being it graphical
>or not). Read some good books about user interfaces.
not have feedback, too. Does _this_ comply with the style guide?
>> OK, MUI isn't perfect, but then, I don't use default settings.
>You wrote "If you do not change anything...", so I assumed you
>were talking about the default settings, weren't you?
Most Gadtools interfaces do not look very good, either. At least MUI
adapts to font sizes, even with default settings. Most GadTools
interfaces I know (including Commodore's) either have hardcoded topaz8
fonts or do not handle font sizes correctly (I've seen this even with
Term, which does rubbish with proportional fonts).
>> >- On monochrome screens, you will see "black on black" if you click
>> > on a button. In listviews, the cursor is just a frame.
>> I never checked what GadTools does on a mono screen.
>It uses the FILLTEXTPEN, which will be color 0, so it is visible
>on a color 1 FILLPEN. MUI only uses TEXTPEN, even if it matches
>the FILLPEN... This actually has NOTHING to do with monochrome
>screens. Starting with OS 3.0 we can change the FILLPEN to any
>value. MUI should respect the users settings, not ignore them.
You're right.
>> >- With a topaz8 font, the checkbox image is rendered terrible.
>> With topaz-8, almost everything looks terrible 8)
>Actually, on a 640x256 screen topaz8 looks good, because of
>the aspect of the font. If I had a graphics card, I would use
>a 1400x700 screen with topaz8 :) It looks awesome, believe me!
I use an Helvetica font. Looks much better.
>Ok, it offers more. But the features it offers don't justify
>the size of the libraries. Look how big "Gauge.mui" is. And
>what does it do? Paint a rectangle. Same for other classes.
OK, it might be that some parts of MUI need reprogramming.
Regards, Hans-Joerg.
Paul Weterings
HJF> fe...@informatik.uni-kl.de (Christoph Feck IRZ) writes:>- Props and
HJF> sliders lack feedback, when you click on them!What do you mean by
HJF> feedback? Inverting the knob?
>> Yes. I always think my mouse button is defunct :) Click -> no response...
>> The user NEEDS feedback. It is one of the main concepts of a user
>> interface (being it graphical or not). Read some good books about user
>> interfaces.
HJF> You tell this to Commodore. The slider knob on the Workbench windows
HJF> do not have feedback, too. Does _this_ comply with the style guide?
Hmm, maybe on your Amiga... On mine they do. I agree with Christoph, MUI should
give feedback when the user hits the slider knob.
HJF> OK, it might be that some parts of MUI need reprogramming.
:-)
_
/ ) Adios...
/ /_________
/ _|_|__) Pa...@Grafix.wlink.nl
/ (O_)
__/ (O_)
______(0_)
... Hatred: A sentiment appropriate to the occasion of another's
superiority
-- Via Xenolink 1.90
Christoph Feck IRZ
> You tell this to Commodore. The slider knob on the Workbench windows do
> not have feedback, too. Does _this_ comply with the style guide?
You still at OS 2.x? Sad.
> fonts or do not handle font sizes correctly (I've seen this even with
> Term, which does rubbish with proportional fonts).
OS 3.0 has better handling of prop fonts in sliders (which
I think that is the bug you are referring to).
> OK, it might be that some parts of MUI need reprogramming.
Yep. Hopefully he changed things positively in his next
upgrade (not just bugfix).
Bernd Koesling
> > >- Props and sliders lack feedback, when you click on them!
> > What do you mean by feedback? Inverting the knob?
>
> Yes. I always think my mouse button is defunct :)
> Click -> no response... The user NEEDS feedback. It is one
>
????
On my system (WB3.0, MUI2.2) slider/scroller-knobs become inverted
when klicking them - check your mouse or get the latest version.
Have Fun - Koessi
Michael Rivers
R> of patching existing (and ROM-based) ones?
R> You could still pass requests thru to the existing library, if you
R> wanted.
Stupid me. I didn't notice that GadTools is in the ROM, but I think
another GadTools with a version number of say, 41, can be put in
libs: when a prog asks for GadTools version 41, OpenLibrary should
open the new GadTools and ignore the old one in the rom.
Christoph Feck IRZ
> On my system (WB3.0, MUI2.2) slider/scroller-knobs become inverted
> when klicking them - check your mouse or get the latest version.
Not with the default settings. This is what we were talking about.
Ted M. Troccola, x4721
> code (and gadtools' code is long, almost as long as X!), falling
> in the same traps each time, and maybe you'll begin to consider
> a trade off between no GUI-assistance at all and using MUI. There
> are very goot intermediary libraries (link libraries for
> example, since relying on an external library seems to disturb
> you) between these two extremes, no doubt you will eventually
> use one of them.
What is MUI? Where can I get it? And, is it better/worse/same as
GadToolsBox???
Any and all info about any GUI tools is greatly appreciated
Hans-Joerg Frieden
> HJF> You tell this to Commodore. The slider knob on the Workbench windows
> HJF> do not have feedback, too. Does _this_ comply with the style guide?
>Hmm, maybe on your Amiga... On mine they do. I agree with Christoph, MUI should
>give feedback when the user hits the slider knob.
Strange... On my Amiga (Kick 2.04), none of the NEWLOOK prop gadgets
do invert the knob, at least not on a productivity screen. But yes, I agree,
too, that the knob _should_ be inverted, or at least show some sign of
being hit, but fact is that even CBM's sliders don't do it.
Apart from this, it is my opinion that GadTools suck, and that I like
MUI better since I don't use the default settings.
Regards, Hans-Joerg.
Hans-Joerg Frieden
>You still at OS 2.x? Sad.
Yes, sad but true 8-). There's still some of us 2.x users around...
>OS 3.0 has better handling of prop fonts in sliders (which
>I think that is the bug you are referring to).
Sigh. But I still use 2.x, and other people do, too (Are there any more
1.3 users out there? I guess yes).
Regards, Hans-Joerg.