KVM switches
Tim ffrench-Lynch
AlphaStation 255? It's the old business of the Alpha using scanset 3 and
the PC something else.
It looks like what is needed is a KVM with a keyboard controller for
each computer connection which then talks to the keyboard in whatever
way it prefers. It looks like a Raritran switch would work, but they're
a bit pricey for a £92 AlphaStation at home.
Tim
Mike Bartman
<nos...@baesystems.com> wrote:
>Does anyone know of any affordable KVM switches that will work with an
>AlphaStation 255? It's the old business of the Alpha using scanset 3 and
>the PC something else.
I've got an AlphaStation 200 using a Belkin F1D074. Handles 4
computers, and worked fine with a couple of NT boxes when I was using
it to handle all three inputs (I've since found a proper keyboard for
the Alpha, so that part isn't on the Belkin anymore...I like the feel
of a proper keyboard better, and the keys are where the software
expects them. I still use the Belkin to switch the mouse and video
though.)
I'm running my NT screen at 1280x1024, and the video is fine. I've
set it much higher than that just to see if it works, and it does, but
1280x1024 is as high as my eyes can take on a 19" screen.
The keyboard I'm using is programmable, and the fact that the Belkin
uses keyboard codes to switch inputs allowed me to program a couple of
extra blank function keys on the keyboard to select between the
inputs...I just hit a button and the screen jumps to the system I
want. Takes a second to lock the new video signal, but only a second
or two. The keyboard is otherwise a normal PC keyboard.
I don't know if a 200 and a 255 differ enough to matter, but that's
what I've got here, and it's working for me.
-- Mike
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Stanley F. Quayle
> Does anyone know of any affordable KVM switches that will work with an
> AlphaStation 255? It's the old business of the Alpha using scanset 3 and
> the PC something else.
>
> It looks like a Raritran switch would work, but they're
> a bit pricey for a £92 AlphaStation at home.
Actually, Raritran boxes turn up frequently on eBay for less than
$100, including cables. The one I bought works perfectly...
--Stan Quayle
Quayle Consulting Inc.
----------
Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ +1 614-868-1363 Fax: +1 614 868-1671
8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH 43147
Preferred address: st...@stanq.com http://www.stanq.com
Christoph Gartmann
>Does anyone know of any affordable KVM switches that will work with an
>AlphaStation 255? It's the old business of the Alpha using scanset 3 and
>the PC something else.
The UltraView series of Rose Electronics does a good job (www.rosel.com).
>It looks like what is needed is a KVM with a keyboard controller for
>each computer connection which then talks to the keyboard in whatever
>way it prefers. It looks like a Raritran switch would work, but they're
>a bit pricey for a £92 AlphaStation at home.
The Rose switches aren't cheap either :-( Perhaps you find an older ServeView
model on ebay?
Regards,
Christoph Gartmann
--
Max-Planck-Institut fuer Phone : +49-761-5108-464 Fax: -452
Immunbiologie
Postfach 1169 Internet: gart...@immunbio.mpg.de
D-79011 Freiburg, Germany
http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html
Ken Fairfield
Interesting you should bring this topic up since I'm about to be in
a similar situation (thanks to Dave Turner at Islandco.Com :-).
I Googled for old c.o.v discussions, and I spent a good deal of time
on the web researching (to the extent I could) KVMs. The good news
is that both Rose and Raritan have models that officially support
OpenVMS. That bad news is they are VERY expensive: the ones offered
are in the US$680 range. :-( The not-quite-so-bad news is that the
CompuSwitch series KVMs are about half the price of the MasterConsole
series and officially support OpenVMS, but US$360 is still a LOT for
a home system.
It's precisely what you said, "the old business of the Alpha using
scanset 3 and the PC something else", that is at issue. I haven't
been able to get a technical person to tell me whether either the
Rose or the Raritan can manage the switch between a live VMS/Alpha
and a live PC. If it can't, one might as well use a cheap, e.g.,
Belkin switch, and be resigned to rebooting the Alpha (or PC) in
order to use the keyboard (it would still save space at home and
allow sharing the k, v, and m...just not simultaneously...sigh.
Good luck and let us know what you come up with!
-Ken
--
I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...
Ken Fairfield
D1C Automation VMS System Support
kenneth[dot]h[dot]fairfield[at]intel[dot]com
Stanley F. Quayle
> I haven't been able to get a technical person to tell me whether either the
> Rose or the Raritan can manage the switch between a live VMS/Alpha
> and a live PC.
I have a Raritan switch working between Windows 2000, Red Hat Linux
7.3 on Intel, OpenVMS 7.3-1 Alpha, and OpenVMS 7.3 VAX. It works
perfectly. There are no problems with the keyboard, unlike other KVM
switches I've tried.
And, as I said in an earlier posting, I was able to get a Raritan 4-
port for about $100 on eBay.
Nic Clews
>
> Does anyone know of any affordable KVM switches that will work with an
> AlphaStation 255? It's the old business of the Alpha using scanset 3 and
> the PC something else.
To add to the discussion, I'm using a Belkin KVM. Using earlier graphics
cards, e.g. the EISA Compaq Qvision, the signalling can make the switch
think the system has gone to sleep, although it does appear to pass the
signalling correctly (the port select blinks).
For one of the PC's I'm using quite a high resolution, and I find the
screen smears a little at high resolution and scan rate. A manual switch
(that this one replaced) did the same. It claims to support 1900 by 1200
though. Just call me Mr. Fussy.
--
Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences
nclews at csc dot com
Tim ffrench-Lynch
> I've got an AlphaStation 200 using a Belkin F1D074. Handles 4
> computers, and worked fine with a couple of NT boxes when I was using
> it to handle all three inputs (I've since found a proper keyboard for
> the Alpha, so that part isn't on the Belkin anymore...I like the feel
> of a proper keyboard better, and the keys are where the software
> expects them. I still use the Belkin to switch the mouse and video
> though.)
> I don't know if a 200 and a 255 differ enough to matter, but that's
> what I've got here, and it's working for me.
On looking at my machine, it's a 200 as well, the 255 was a machine I
had on my desk a few years ago. DEC make equipment so reliable that you
can forget what model it is :-)
The Belkin switch is no longer available and has been replaced by
switches of unknown capability.
It looks as though Adder in the UK may be worth investigating. They
specifically mention DEC Alpha and one switch (their cheapest) mentions
keyboard modes 1,2,3. They have two and four way switches at £80-£110
excluding VAT. I've emailed them to ask a few questions, I'll follow up
here if I get any luck.
Tim
Tim ffrench-Lynch
> I've got an AlphaStation 200 using a Belkin F1D074. Handles 4
> computers, and worked fine with a couple of NT boxes when I was using
> it to handle all three inputs (I've since found a proper keyboard for
> the Alpha, so that part isn't on the Belkin anymore...I like the feel
> of a proper keyboard better, and the keys are where the software
> expects them. I still use the Belkin to switch the mouse and video
> though.)
> I don't know if a 200 and a 255 differ enough to matter, but that's
> what I've got here, and it's working for me.
On looking at my machine, it's a 200 as well, the 255 was a machine I
had on my desk a few years ago. DEC make equipment so reliable that you
can forget what model it is.
The Belkin switch is no longer available and has been replaced by
switches of unknown capability :-(
Adder in the UK look worth trying. On the web, they specifically mention
DEC Alpha but not VMS. I emailed them and got this reply :-
. The DEC Alpha running VMS requires keyboard mode 3 that the Omega
. supports fully. It is also happy running mixed keyboard modes on
. different ports (most PCs use mode 2). It also supports the
. undocumented PS/2 codes that are used by DECs and DEC keyboards.
. The Omega or GEM are ideal switches for what you are looking to do.
The Omega is £80+VAT, supports two computers and sound.
The GEM is a more normal design, £95+VAT (2 computers), £110+VAT (4
computers) but doesn't support sound.
I'll probably order order one and follow up here with the results.
Tim
Michael Rice
> On 7 Jul 2003 at 16:28, Ken Fairfield wrote:
>
>>I haven't been able to get a technical person to tell me whether either the
>>Rose or the Raritan can manage the switch between a live VMS/Alpha
>>and a live PC.
>
>
> I have a Raritan switch working between Windows 2000, Red Hat Linux
> 7.3 on Intel, OpenVMS 7.3-1 Alpha, and OpenVMS 7.3 VAX. It works
> perfectly. There are no problems with the keyboard, unlike other KVM
> switches I've tried.
>
> And, as I said in an earlier posting, I was able to get a Raritan 4-
> port for about $100 on eBay.
>
Assuming the KVM has PS/2 connections for mouse and keyboard, how did
you connect it to the VAX, or is that a Charon VAX?
Stanley F. Quayle
> Assuming the KVM has PS/2 connections for mouse and keyboard, how did
> you connect it to the VAX, or is that a Charon VAX?
I have the video hooked to the KVM. I'm "experimenting" with VAX
4000 to PS/2 conversion.
I'm sure CHARON-VAX would work fine, too...
Jim Agnew - VCU/MCV Neurosurgery
cought it up, it tends to work well.
jim
--
"4,000 years ago I made a mistake." Elrond Half-Elven, in "Fellowship
of the Ring"
"I try not to be right any more than necessary". -- Larry Wall, author
of the Perl Language
Chris Scheers
>
> On 8 Jul 2003 at 7:36, Michael Rice wrote:
> > Assuming the KVM has PS/2 connections for mouse and keyboard, how did
> > you connect it to the VAX, or is that a Charon VAX?
>
> I have the video hooked to the KVM. I'm "experimenting" with VAX
> 4000 to PS/2 conversion.
>
> I'm sure CHARON-VAX would work fine, too...
The VAX modular plug keyboards speak an entirely different protocol than
the PS/2 keyboards.
If you get it to work, please let me know.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Voice: 817-237-3360 Internet: ch...@applied-synergy.com
Fax: 817-237-3074
Ken Fairfield
>
> On 7 Jul 2003 at 16:28, Ken Fairfield wrote:
> > I haven't been able to get a technical person to tell me whether either the
> > Rose or the Raritan can manage the switch between a live VMS/Alpha
> > and a live PC.
>
> I have a Raritan switch working between Windows 2000, Red Hat Linux
> 7.3 on Intel, OpenVMS 7.3-1 Alpha, and OpenVMS 7.3 VAX. It works
> perfectly. There are no problems with the keyboard, unlike other KVM
> switches I've tried.
Thanks for that input, it gives more confidence is going
the Raritan route. Which series is it (MasterConsole, CompuSwitch,
other)?
Also, in the other followup form the OP, it sounds like
Adder understands the requirements and has a solution. I think
I'll look around and see if they are available on this side of
the pond...
Christoph Gartmann
>It's precisely what you said, "the old business of the Alpha using
>scanset 3 and the PC something else", that is at issue. I haven't
>been able to get a technical person to tell me whether either the
>Rose or the Raritan can manage the switch between a live VMS/Alpha
>and a live PC. If it can't, one might as well use a cheap, e.g.,
>Belkin switch, and be resigned to rebooting the Alpha (or PC) in
>order to use the keyboard (it would still save space at home and
>allow sharing the k, v, and m...just not simultaneously...sigh.
Our ServeViews and UltraViews from Rose manage Macs, PCs, OpenVMS-Stations and
True64-Boxes all at the same time at the same KVM. They are supposed to
support Suns as well.
Alan Frisbie
> Tim ffrench-Lynch wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know of any affordable KVM switches that will work with an
>> AlphaStation 255? It's the old business of the Alpha using scanset 3 and
>> the PC something else.
> It's precisely what you said, "the old business of the Alpha using
> scanset 3 and the PC something else", that is at issue. I haven't
> been able to get a technical person to tell me whether either the
> Rose or the Raritan can manage the switch between a live VMS/Alpha
> and a live PC. If it can't, one might as well use a cheap, e.g.,
> Belkin switch, and be resigned to rebooting the Alpha (or PC) in
> order to use the keyboard (it would still save space at home and
> allow sharing the k, v, and m...just not simultaneously...sigh.
At this very moment I am using a Raritan MX48 (four consoles and
eight computers). The keyboards are all LK461-A2, two of the mice
are DEC 30-46117-01 (3-button), the others Belkin F8E201 (3-button).
The DEC mice are much higher quality.
Two of the computers are PCs running Red Hat Linux 7.0 and 8.0, one
is a PC running Win98, one runs Win2K, one is an AlphaServer 1000A
running VMS, and one is an AlphaStation 200 running VMS. I can
switch any console between them with no problems at all. With
three keyboards/mice on my desk and the monitors on a shelf behind
it, people say that it looks like the bridge of the Enterprise. :-)
One minor glitch (which may have been corrected in newer versions of
the Raritan microcode) is that the Alpha/VMS systems needed a Raritan
APKME "Keep Alive" module in series with the keyboard (only) cable.
Raritan gave us some at no charge when I complained about the problem.
The other minor glitch is that the key mapping is different between
the PC systems and the Alphas: on a PC, the LK461 key to the left
of the "Z" key (marked "<" and ">") generates accent "`" and tilde "~"
while on the Alpha systems it generates "<" and ">". Likewise, "Remove"
is "Delete", "Select" is "End", etc. This is not a fault of the KVM
switch, but an artifact of using an LK461 on a PC. You learn to
live with it.
The MX48 is *EXPENSIVE* (~$1900), but I just bought one for my home
use on eBay for $450, including cables. When I checked yesterday,
there was another one up for the same price. If you don't need
multiple keyboards and monitors, they have much less expensive units.
For a mixed-system environment, I am a big fan of Raritan.
Alan
Alan Frisbie
> "Stanley F. Quayle" wrote:
>
>>On 7 Jul 2003 at 16:28, Ken Fairfield wrote:
>>
>>>I haven't been able to get a technical person to tell me whether either the
>>>Rose or the Raritan can manage the switch between a live VMS/Alpha
>>>and a live PC.
>>
>>I have a Raritan switch working between Windows 2000, Red Hat Linux
>>7.3 on Intel, OpenVMS 7.3-1 Alpha, and OpenVMS 7.3 VAX. It works
>>perfectly. There are no problems with the keyboard, unlike other KVM
>>switches I've tried.
>
>
> Thanks for that input, it gives more confidence is going
> the Raritan route. Which series is it (MasterConsole, CompuSwitch,
> other)?
MasterConsole MX4, specifically the MX48. They also have the MX416
and MX432 if you have lots of systems (and money). If you cascade
them, you can have up to 1024 systems!
Check out www.kvm-switches-online.com for Raritan and other brands
if you want to buy a new one. Their prices seem to be pretty good,
but you can do a lot better on eBay.
Alan
Ken Fairfield
[...]
> At this very moment I am using a Raritan MX48 (four consoles and
> eight computers). The keyboards are all LK461-A2, two of the mice
> are DEC 30-46117-01 (3-button), the others Belkin F8E201 (3-button).
> The DEC mice are much higher quality.
>
> Two of the computers are PCs running Red Hat Linux 7.0 and 8.0, one
> is a PC running Win98, one runs Win2K, one is an AlphaServer 1000A
> running VMS, and one is an AlphaStation 200 running VMS. I can
> switch any console between them with no problems at all. With
> three keyboards/mice on my desk and the monitors on a shelf behind
> it, people say that it looks like the bridge of the Enterprise. :-)
[...]
> The MX48 is *EXPENSIVE* (~$1900), but I just bought one for my home
> use on eBay for $450, including cables. When I checked yesterday,
> there was another one up for the same price. If you don't need
> multiple keyboards and monitors, they have much less expensive units.
Thanks for the info, Alan. It turns out I'm looking at the small,
Raritan 2-Port CompuSwitch CS2, which can be had for around $260,
perhaps less, without cables. At the moment, there are three of these
listed on eBay with a $25 "Buy it now" price, supposedly in the
original sealed packaging! This may be the Hobbiest's candy store. :-)
-Ken
--
I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...
Ken Fairfield
D1C Automation VMS System Support
kenneth[dt]h[dt]fairfield[where]intel[dt]com
John Travell
"Ken Fairfield" <My.Ful...@intel.com> wrote in message
news:3F0B2766...@intel.com...
> "Stanley F. Quayle" wrote:
> >
> > On 7 Jul 2003 at 16:28, Ken Fairfield wrote:
> > > I haven't been able to get a technical person to tell me whether
either the
> > > Rose or the Raritan can manage the switch between a live VMS/Alpha
> > > and a live PC.
> >
> > I have a Raritan switch working between Windows 2000, Red Hat Linux
> > 7.3 on Intel, OpenVMS 7.3-1 Alpha, and OpenVMS 7.3 VAX. It works
> > perfectly. There are no problems with the keyboard, unlike other KVM
> > switches I've tried.
>
> Thanks for that input, it gives more confidence is going
> the Raritan route. Which series is it (MasterConsole, CompuSwitch,
> other)?
>
> Also, in the other followup form the OP, it sounds like
> Adder understands the requirements and has a solution. I think
> I'll look around and see if they are available on this side of
> the pond...
>
Adder do have a US office, according to their website at
http://www.addertec.com/
--
John Travell
VMS crashdump expertise for hire
jo...@jomatech.com
+44-(0)23-92552229
http://www.jomatech.com/
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.493 / Virus Database: 292 - Release Date: 25/06/2003
Ken Fairfield
>
> "Ken Fairfield" <My.Ful...@intel.com> wrote in message
> news:3F0B2766...@intel.com...
[big snip]
> > Also, in the other followup form the OP, it sounds like
> > Adder understands the requirements and has a solution. I think
> > I'll look around and see if they are available on this side of
> > the pond...
>
> Adder do have a US office, according to their website at
> http://www.addertec.com/
I sent e-mail to Adder's techincal support and they confirmed this
little GEM AVG2 2-port router not only "works" with VMS and PC's,
but that it correctly switches the keyboard mode between scanset 3
and "default" mode when switching between the systems. :-)
Looks like a nice, simple little system for a hobbiest. It uses
standard cables, which is both a plus and a minus, depending,
because you need a separate keyboard, mouse and video cable for
each system attached.
Anyone out there actively using the Adder GEM with an Alpha???
I also got a response from Raritan tech support that their CompuServe
CS2 does the correct keyboard mode switching. Unfortunately, the
CS2 requires an adapter between the Alphastation and the switch
(why? what does it do?). [This is the AUKME that Alan Frisbie mentioned
in an earlier follow-up. But I doubt I get them for free...they list
at US$89 or so...] Raritan also use their own cables between switch
and systems, which is both a plus and a minus because the cables are
pricy, but you have a single cable for each system.
Regards, Ken
--
I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...
Ken Fairfield
D1C Automation VMS System Support
kenneth[dt]h[dt]fairfield[ta]intel[dt]com
Tim ffrench-Lynch
> Anyone out there actively using the Adder GEM with an Alpha???
I should be receiving an Adder Omega 2 port KVM on Monday. I'll post
here how well it performs with an Alphastation and a PC.
Tim
Ken Fairfield
Great! Waiting with bated breath, as they say...
BTW, in your earlier post you wrote:
> . The DEC Alpha running VMS requires keyboard mode 3 that the Omega
> . supports fully. It is also happy running mixed keyboard modes on
> . different ports (most PCs use mode 2). It also supports the
> . undocumented PS/2 codes that are used by DECs and DEC keyboards.
> . The Omega or GEM are ideal switches for what you are looking to do.
>
> The Omega is Ł80+VAT, supports two computers and sound.
> The GEM is a more normal design, Ł95+VAT (2 computers), Ł110+VAT (4
> computers) but doesn't support sound.
It looked to me like the Omega is more capable than the GEM,
yet the GEM is more expensive. Any hint why that might be?
Cheers, Ken
Tim ffrench-Lynch
> Great! Waiting with bated breath, as they say...
The Adder Omega KVM arrived yesterday. I think it works, but I'm having
sufficient problems with my Alphastation 200 4/166 that it's difficult
to be conclusive.
This is an old computer being bought back into use after a year or so.
There seemed last night an overheating problem, once warm the boot SROM
failed checksum. This is obviously not related to the KVM but does make
life more difficult. I've never seen my PC as hot inside as last night
so this was extreme conditions. The system is on its side so that may
not help either.
I'm still at basic terminal level - no X-windows yet so I don't know
about the mouse and any keyboard problems could be down not having a
fully working system as yet. I'm using a cheap (£4.95) no name PC
keyboard.
I found that the keyboard worked far better than with the previous two
previous cheap KVMs. I did find trouble after a control-Y, once only the
return key worked, the other time the return key worked and I got odd
cursor movement from other keys but no suggestion of any characters on
hitting return.
Video seemed good quality (but then even my £20 KVM managed that) and I
haven't hooked up the sound yet. Cables are good and heavy, much thicker
than with the cheap KVMs I've used. The device has flashable ROM and I
like the ability to switch KVM but not sound - just what I'm after for
BBC Radio 4 over the internet on my PC.
I summary, it seems to work but my AlphaStation is really not the best
one to test it with. Two previous KVMs were discarded in minutes so my
results do seem encouraging.
Once I'm fully up and running I'll post again.
> It looked to me like the Omega is more capable than the GEM,
> yet the GEM is more expensive. Any hint why that might be?
The Omega is plenty solid enough for home use or putting out of the way
in a work environment but it probably isn't as robust as the GEM which
may(?) have a metal case.