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Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
Nov 6, 2012, 1:00:02 AM11/6/12
to
My old hobbyist licenses will expire in a couple of weeks. I already
have the new ones and will load them soon. A nice touch is that the
OPENVMS-ALPHA license doesn't have the /OPTIONS=NO_SHARE, so those of us
with a cluster need just one of these licenses and don't have to modify
it.
I plan to replace some of my disks with bigger ones (something I have
been wanting to do for a long time anyway; now I have enough big disks
so that I can have 2- or even 3-member shadow sets and still have
spares) then will download 8.4 and the UPDATE5 patch as well as the
other stuff. (I am still at 7.3-2 but have a Montagar 8.3 CD which I'll
use as a stepping stone.) Some questions:
Is anyone here running the current hobbyist version (i.e. 8.4 and UPDATE
5)? Is it reasonably stable?
Is there any reason to stick at 8.3 and the patches which were available
when patch access was switched off?
How easy is it to install the stuff without burning a CD, i.e. directly
from disk?
have the new ones and will load them soon. A nice touch is that the
OPENVMS-ALPHA license doesn't have the /OPTIONS=NO_SHARE, so those of us
with a cluster need just one of these licenses and don't have to modify
it.
I plan to replace some of my disks with bigger ones (something I have
been wanting to do for a long time anyway; now I have enough big disks
so that I can have 2- or even 3-member shadow sets and still have
spares) then will download 8.4 and the UPDATE5 patch as well as the
other stuff. (I am still at 7.3-2 but have a Montagar 8.3 CD which I'll
use as a stepping stone.) Some questions:
Is anyone here running the current hobbyist version (i.e. 8.4 and UPDATE
5)? Is it reasonably stable?
Is there any reason to stick at 8.3 and the patches which were available
when patch access was switched off?
How easy is it to install the stuff without burning a CD, i.e. directly
from disk?
Paul Sture
Nov 6, 2012, 2:00:51 AM11/6/12
to
In article <k7a912$rpv$3...@online.de>,
hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---undress to reply)
wrote:
Still on 8.3 here simply because I was concentrating on getting what was
on a real Alpha working inside an emulator. Time really.
> How easy is it to install the stuff without burning a CD, i.e. directly
> from disk?
Do you have any standalone external disks? I used to have a 1GB
external disk and I would use LD to mount the CD image and do a
BACKUP/IMAGE to the external disk, then I could simply plug that disk
into the target system of my choice. Then you simply boot from that
disk.
--
Paul Sture
hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---undress to reply)
wrote:
on a real Alpha working inside an emulator. Time really.
> How easy is it to install the stuff without burning a CD, i.e. directly
> from disk?
external disk and I would use LD to mount the CD image and do a
BACKUP/IMAGE to the external disk, then I could simply plug that disk
into the target system of my choice. Then you simply boot from that
disk.
--
Paul Sture
Bart Zorn
Nov 6, 2012, 2:22:45 AM11/6/12
to
Bart
Jan-Erik Soderholm
Nov 6, 2012, 2:42:24 AM11/6/12
to
Phillip Helbig---undress to reply wrote 2012-11-06 07:00:
> My old hobbyist licenses will expire in a couple of weeks. I already
> have the new ones and will load them soon. A nice touch is that the
> OPENVMS-ALPHA license doesn't have the /OPTIONS=NO_SHARE, so those of us
> with a cluster need just one of these licenses and don't have to modify
> it.
>
> I plan to replace some of my disks with bigger ones (something I have
> been wanting to do for a long time anyway; now I have enough big disks
> so that I can have 2- or even 3-member shadow sets and still have
> spares) then will download 8.4 and the UPDATE5 patch as well as the
> other stuff. (I am still at 7.3-2 but have a Montagar 8.3 CD which I'll
> use as a stepping stone.) Some questions:
>
> Is anyone here running the current hobbyist version (i.e. 8.4 and UPDATE
> 5)? Is it reasonably stable?
>
> Is there any reason to stick at 8.3...
> My old hobbyist licenses will expire in a couple of weeks. I already
> have the new ones and will load them soon. A nice touch is that the
> OPENVMS-ALPHA license doesn't have the /OPTIONS=NO_SHARE, so those of us
> with a cluster need just one of these licenses and don't have to modify
> it.
>
> I plan to replace some of my disks with bigger ones (something I have
> been wanting to do for a long time anyway; now I have enough big disks
> so that I can have 2- or even 3-member shadow sets and still have
> spares) then will download 8.4 and the UPDATE5 patch as well as the
> other stuff. (I am still at 7.3-2 but have a Montagar 8.3 CD which I'll
> use as a stepping stone.) Some questions:
>
> Is anyone here running the current hobbyist version (i.e. 8.4 and UPDATE
> 5)? Is it reasonably stable?
>
Probably no, IMHO.
> and the patches which were available
> when patch access was switched off?
>
> How easy is it to install the stuff without burning a CD, i.e. directly
> from disk?
>
Bart Zorn wrote:
> I used to have a 1GB
> external disk and I would use LD to mount the CD image and
> do a BACKUP/IMAGE to the external disk,
You can MOUNT/FOR the external disk an COPY the ISO file
> I used to have a 1GB
> external disk and I would use LD to mount the CD image and
> do a BACKUP/IMAGE to the external disk,
directly to it. You do not have to go over a LD device.
vmsma...@earthlink.net
Nov 6, 2012, 9:44:37 AM11/6/12
to
Bill LaCounte aka VMS Mangler
MG
Nov 6, 2012, 10:42:09 AM11/6/12
to
On 6-11-2012 7:00, Phillip Helbig---undress to reply wrote:
> Is anyone here running the current hobbyist version (i.e. 8.4 and UPDATE
> 5)? Is it reasonably stable?
Yes, except there are several things broken (especially without
> Is anyone here running the current hobbyist version (i.e. 8.4 and UPDATE
> 5)? Is it reasonably stable?
patches). I assume you also use DECwindows, because they also
managed to ruin simple things like the scroll bars in windows
and USB (if you have/use it) will also act strangely, especially
for "HID"...
Other than that, it runs fine for me and I wouldn't (and couldn't)
downgrade, as I have several ~2 Tbyte volumes.
> Is there any reason to stick at 8.3 and the patches which were
> available when patch access was switched off?
> How easy is it to install the stuff without burning a CD, i.e.
> directly from disk?
- MG
David Froble
Nov 6, 2012, 10:47:46 AM11/6/12
to
Phillip Helbig---undress to reply wrote:
> My old hobbyist licenses will expire in a couple of weeks. I already
> have the new ones and will load them soon. A nice touch is that the
> OPENVMS-ALPHA license doesn't have the /OPTIONS=NO_SHARE, so those of us
> with a cluster need just one of these licenses and don't have to modify
> it.
>
> I plan to replace some of my disks with bigger ones (something I have
> been wanting to do for a long time anyway; now I have enough big disks
> so that I can have 2- or even 3-member shadow sets and still have
> spares) then will download 8.4 and the UPDATE5 patch as well as the
> other stuff. (I am still at 7.3-2 but have a Montagar 8.3 CD which I'll
> use as a stepping stone.) Some questions:
>
> Is anyone here running the current hobbyist version (i.e. 8.4 and UPDATE
> 5)? Is it reasonably stable?
Don't know, I'm still happy with V8.3
> have the new ones and will load them soon. A nice touch is that the
> OPENVMS-ALPHA license doesn't have the /OPTIONS=NO_SHARE, so those of us
> with a cluster need just one of these licenses and don't have to modify
> it.
>
> I plan to replace some of my disks with bigger ones (something I have
> been wanting to do for a long time anyway; now I have enough big disks
> so that I can have 2- or even 3-member shadow sets and still have
> spares) then will download 8.4 and the UPDATE5 patch as well as the
> other stuff. (I am still at 7.3-2 but have a Montagar 8.3 CD which I'll
> use as a stepping stone.) Some questions:
>
> Is anyone here running the current hobbyist version (i.e. 8.4 and UPDATE
> 5)? Is it reasonably stable?
> Is there any reason to stick at 8.3 and the patches which were available
> when patch access was switched off?
time it won't matter because you'll get only the latest version on new
hardware.
> How easy is it to install the stuff without burning a CD, i.e. directly
> from disk?
>
bootable copy of the distribution on any disk and then boot from that disk.
Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
Nov 6, 2012, 3:02:58 PM11/6/12
to
In article <nospam-259D0F....@news.chingola.ch>, Paul Sture
I have enough disks. I have moved to using SBBs exclusively. I have
enough of all sizes.
> I used to have a 1GB
> external disk and I would use LD to mount the CD image and do a
> BACKUP/IMAGE to the external disk, then I could simply plug that disk
> into the target system of my choice. Then you simply boot from that
> disk.
Yes, I was thinking of something similar. I think many people copied
CDs to disks with BACKUP/IMAGE then used the disk since it is quicker.
I've never used LD. Where do I get it? How easy is it to download,
install, set up and use?
Is there any other option with these ISO images?
I have enough disks. I have moved to using SBBs exclusively. I have
enough of all sizes.
> I used to have a 1GB
> external disk and I would use LD to mount the CD image and do a
> BACKUP/IMAGE to the external disk, then I could simply plug that disk
> into the target system of my choice. Then you simply boot from that
> disk.
CDs to disks with BACKUP/IMAGE then used the disk since it is quicker.
I've never used LD. Where do I get it? How easy is it to download,
install, set up and use?
Is there any other option with these ISO images?
Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
Nov 6, 2012, 3:07:10 PM11/6/12
to
In article <k7af12$3ql$1...@news.albasani.net>, Jan-Erik Soderholm
On a related note: I now have three essentially identical disks as the
system disk on each bootserver node (actually, each disk is a shadow
set, but that doesn't matter here). These were formed by copying the
disks and "changing the node name".
It seems to me that a better approach would be for each disk to have
SYS$SPECIFIC for all nodes. One could then upgrade one disk and for
the other nodes just boot from the appropriate root?
Does anyone do this? Anything non-obvious to keep in mind?
As a prerequisite to doing this, I need to organize my TCPIP stuff so
that only the node-specific stuff is in SYS$SPECIFIC and the common
stuff is in SYS$COMMON. TCPIP on VMS is of course a bit tricky since it
is not always VMS-like, is not always well documented, there are big
changes between versions etc.
<jan-erik....@telia.com> writes:
> > I used to have a 1GB
> > external disk and I would use LD to mount the CD image and
> > do a BACKUP/IMAGE to the external disk,
>
> You can MOUNT/FOR the external disk an COPY the ISO file
> directly to it. You do not have to go over a LD device.
That's what I had in mind.
> > I used to have a 1GB
> > external disk and I would use LD to mount the CD image and
> > do a BACKUP/IMAGE to the external disk,
>
> You can MOUNT/FOR the external disk an COPY the ISO file
> directly to it. You do not have to go over a LD device.
On a related note: I now have three essentially identical disks as the
system disk on each bootserver node (actually, each disk is a shadow
set, but that doesn't matter here). These were formed by copying the
disks and "changing the node name".
It seems to me that a better approach would be for each disk to have
SYS$SPECIFIC for all nodes. One could then upgrade one disk and for
the other nodes just boot from the appropriate root?
Does anyone do this? Anything non-obvious to keep in mind?
As a prerequisite to doing this, I need to organize my TCPIP stuff so
that only the node-specific stuff is in SYS$SPECIFIC and the common
stuff is in SYS$COMMON. TCPIP on VMS is of course a bit tricky since it
is not always VMS-like, is not always well documented, there are big
changes between versions etc.
Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
Nov 6, 2012, 3:10:22 PM11/6/12
to
In article <50992fd2$0$3077$e4fe...@dreader34.news.xs4all.nl>, MG
scrolling is important. Is this a known problem? Will there be a patch
for it? Will this patch be available for hobbyists? (This is one
reason I liked the old system better.)
<marc...@SPAMxs4all.nl> writes:
> > Is anyone here running the current hobbyist version (i.e. 8.4 and UPDATE
> > 5)? Is it reasonably stable?
>
> Yes, except there are several things broken (especially without
> patches). I assume you also use DECwindows, because they also
> managed to ruin simple things like the scroll bars in windows
> and USB (if you have/use it) will also act strangely, especially
> for "HID"...
Haven't used USB on VMS, but I am a heavy DECwindows user. Yes,
> > Is anyone here running the current hobbyist version (i.e. 8.4 and UPDATE
> > 5)? Is it reasonably stable?
>
> Yes, except there are several things broken (especially without
> patches). I assume you also use DECwindows, because they also
> managed to ruin simple things like the scroll bars in windows
> and USB (if you have/use it) will also act strangely, especially
> for "HID"...
scrolling is important. Is this a known problem? Will there be a patch
for it? Will this patch be available for hobbyists? (This is one
reason I liked the old system better.)
Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
Nov 6, 2012, 3:28:05 PM11/6/12
to
In article <k7bqre$u2g$7...@online.de>, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de
Is DECwindows broken with UPDATE 5 or only without it?
What else is broken with UPDATE 5?
What else is broken with UPDATE 5?
MG
Nov 6, 2012, 4:46:29 PM11/6/12
to
On 6-11-2012 21:28, Phillip Helbig---undress to reply wrote:
> Haven't used USB on VMS
It may also be largely I64 (Integrity) suffering from this,
> Haven't used USB on VMS
resulting in having to reconnect USB HID devices (or switching
if you should use a KVM of some kind). Rather nasty, all in
all.
> Is DECwindows broken with UPDATE 5 or only without it?
via the CLI.
> What else is broken with UPDATE 5?
current state of NFS is, but the last I've heard of it was that
a patch gave someone the choice: fix NFS, but break something
else whilst 'fixing' NFS...
- MG
MG
Nov 6, 2012, 4:52:13 PM11/6/12
to
On 6-11-2012 21:02, Phillip Helbig---undress to reply wrote:
> I've never used LD. Where do I get it? How easy is it to download,
> install, set up and use?
Here, by former DEC/Compaq employee Jur van den Burg and provided
> I've never used LD. Where do I get it? How easy is it to download,
> install, set up and use?
on a server on the same continent as you and I:
<http://www.digiater.nl/lddriver.html>
(I assume it wasn't cached by Google, or that it didn't show up
in the first search results?)
As far as your second question goes: It's distributed as a PCSI
kit, so...
> Is there any other option with these ISO images?
- MG
Jan-Erik Soderholm
Nov 6, 2012, 5:30:16 PM11/6/12
to
Phillip Helbig---undress to reply wrote 2012-11-06 21:02:
>
> Is there any other option with these ISO images?
>
I have them mounted using LD to make it easier to search them
>
> Is there any other option with these ISO images?
>
and pull things from them :
$ d DSA100:[DIST.084]*.iso
Directory DSA100:[DIST.084]
ALPHA084.ISO;1 658.69MB 24-FEB-2012 19:31:24.15
ALPHA084LP1.ISO;1 407.85MB 24-FEB-2012 19:59:56.49
ALPHA084LP2.ISO;1 379.46MB 24-FEB-2012 20:16:47.95
Total of 3 files, 1.41GB
$ ld show /all
...
...
%LD-I-CONNECTED, Connected _$1$LDA5: to DSA100:[DIST.084]ALPHA084LP1.ISO;1
%LD-I-CONNECTED, Connected _$1$LDA6: to DSA100:[DIST.084]ALPHA084LP2.ISO;1
%LD-I-CONNECTED, Connected _$1$LDA7: to DSA100:[DIST.084]ALPHA084.ISO;1
$
Jan-Erik.
BillPedersen
Nov 6, 2012, 8:25:33 PM11/6/12
to
No, there is no direct HELP via DCL. Type LD HELP at DCL to get started.
Newer versions do have bug fixes and enhancements so UPGRADE as necessary.
Bill.
Jan-Erik Soderholm
Nov 7, 2012, 4:59:52 AM11/7/12
to
BillPedersen wrote 2012-11-07 02:25:
>>
>> <http://www.digiater.nl/lddriver.html>
I have not installed Jurgs version since my 8.4 upgrade,
so I guess I'm running the builtin version in V8.4 (?).
Deas "$help ld" count as "direct HELP via DCL" ?
$ tcpip sh ver
HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.7 - ECO 3
on an AlphaServer DS25 running OpenVMS V8.4
$ prod sho hist *ld*
...
HP VMS LD V9.4 Full LP Install (U) 08-APR-2010
$ help ld
LD
The logical disk utility is a system management tool available
to any user for controlling logical disk usage.
...
...
Additional information available:
Author ANALYZE Command_summary Driver_functions
Error_messages Features HELP New_features_V5.0
New_features_V5.1 New_features_V6.0 New_features_V6.2
New_features_V6.3 New_features_V7.0 New_features_V8.0
New_features_V8.1 New_features_V8.2 New_features_V9.0
New_features_V9.1 New_features_V9.2 New_features_V9.3
Parameters Privileges_and_Quotas Restrictions Setup
IO_Trace_example CONNECT CREATE DISCONNECT LOAD
NOPROTECT NOWATCH SHOW TRACE NOTRACE PROTECT
SWITCH UNLOAD WATCH VERSION Examples
LD Subtopic?
Topic?
$
Jan-Erik.
>>
>> <http://www.digiater.nl/lddriver.html>
>>
>
> Yes, that is the most recent version, but LD has been part of the VMS
> distribution for some time. Not sure exactly when it started to be
> available and yes version distributed with VMS 8.4 is version 8.2,
> versus current release from above mentioned website is 9.7 but you CAN
> use the version on the release.
>
> No, there is no direct HELP via DCL...
>
> Yes, that is the most recent version, but LD has been part of the VMS
> distribution for some time. Not sure exactly when it started to be
> available and yes version distributed with VMS 8.4 is version 8.2,
> versus current release from above mentioned website is 9.7 but you CAN
> use the version on the release.
>
I have not installed Jurgs version since my 8.4 upgrade,
so I guess I'm running the builtin version in V8.4 (?).
Deas "$help ld" count as "direct HELP via DCL" ?
$ tcpip sh ver
HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.7 - ECO 3
on an AlphaServer DS25 running OpenVMS V8.4
$ prod sho hist *ld*
...
HP VMS LD V9.4 Full LP Install (U) 08-APR-2010
$ help ld
LD
The logical disk utility is a system management tool available
to any user for controlling logical disk usage.
...
...
Additional information available:
Author ANALYZE Command_summary Driver_functions
Error_messages Features HELP New_features_V5.0
New_features_V5.1 New_features_V6.0 New_features_V6.2
New_features_V6.3 New_features_V7.0 New_features_V8.0
New_features_V8.1 New_features_V8.2 New_features_V9.0
New_features_V9.1 New_features_V9.2 New_features_V9.3
Parameters Privileges_and_Quotas Restrictions Setup
IO_Trace_example CONNECT CREATE DISCONNECT LOAD
NOPROTECT NOWATCH SHOW TRACE NOTRACE PROTECT
SWITCH UNLOAD WATCH VERSION Examples
LD Subtopic?
Topic?
$
Jan-Erik.
MG
Nov 7, 2012, 6:43:53 AM11/7/12
to
On 7-11-2012 10:59, Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
> I have not installed Jurgs version since my 8.4 upgrade,
> so I guess I'm running the builtin version in V8.4 (?).
To further verify that it's pre-installed (for others that possibly
> I have not installed Jurgs version since my 8.4 upgrade,
> so I guess I'm running the builtin version in V8.4 (?).
weren't aware, like me), on a system I fairly recently installed:
$ LD VERSION
%LD-I-VERSION, LD version V8.2, module X-8 built on Mar 30 2010 19:06:32
-LD-I-DRIVERVERSION, Driver version: 31-MAR-2010 02:41:16.90
-LD-I-SYSINFO, Node: ALAHIS::, Hardware: AlphaServer DS15, VMS
version: V8.4
- MG
MG
Nov 7, 2012, 7:11:41 AM11/7/12
to
On 7-11-2012 2:25, BillPedersen wrote:
> Yes, that is the most recent version, but LD has been part of the VMS
> distribution for some time. Not sure exactly when it started to be
> available and yes version distributed with VMS 8.4 is version 8.2, versus
> current release from above mentioned website is 9.7 but you CAN use the
> version on the release.
You're right, I didn't stop to realize that and usually get the latest
> Yes, that is the most recent version, but LD has been part of the VMS
> distribution for some time. Not sure exactly when it started to be
> available and yes version distributed with VMS 8.4 is version 8.2, versus
> current release from above mentioned website is 9.7 but you CAN use the
> version on the release.
from Jur van den Burg. It became a habit, I guess.
- MG
Paul Sture
Nov 7, 2012, 7:00:19 AM11/7/12
to
In article <k7bqdi$u2g$5...@online.de>,
> I've never used LD. Where do I get it? How easy is it to download,
> install, set up and use?
http://www.digiater.nl/lddriver.html
There's a small learning curve. Use LD HELP.
I have also used it to create tape backup sets on an external NFS
volume. That enabled me to continue taking backups when my tape drive
failed. I limited them in size to 700MB or thereabouts so I could
subsequently burn them to CDs (and FWIW using the version of NFS which
came with VMS at that time you ran into the 2GB (or 4GB?) file size
limit, so no point going for DVD sizes).
> Is there any other option with these ISO images?
?
--
Paul Sture
> In article <nospam-259D0F....@news.chingola.ch>, Paul Sture
> <nos...@sture.ch> writes:
>
> > Do you have any standalone external disks?
>
> I have enough disks. I have moved to using SBBs exclusively. I have
> enough of all sizes.
>
> > I used to have a 1GB
> > external disk and I would use LD to mount the CD image and do a
> > BACKUP/IMAGE to the external disk, then I could simply plug that disk
> > into the target system of my choice. Then you simply boot from that
> > disk.
>
> Yes, I was thinking of something similar. I think many people copied
> CDs to disks with BACKUP/IMAGE then used the disk since it is quicker.
Yes, much faster, even with more modern optical drives.
> <nos...@sture.ch> writes:
>
> > Do you have any standalone external disks?
>
> I have enough disks. I have moved to using SBBs exclusively. I have
> enough of all sizes.
>
> > I used to have a 1GB
> > external disk and I would use LD to mount the CD image and do a
> > BACKUP/IMAGE to the external disk, then I could simply plug that disk
> > into the target system of my choice. Then you simply boot from that
> > disk.
>
> Yes, I was thinking of something similar. I think many people copied
> CDs to disks with BACKUP/IMAGE then used the disk since it is quicker.
> I've never used LD. Where do I get it? How easy is it to download,
> install, set up and use?
There's a small learning curve. Use LD HELP.
I have also used it to create tape backup sets on an external NFS
volume. That enabled me to continue taking backups when my tape drive
failed. I limited them in size to 700MB or thereabouts so I could
subsequently burn them to CDs (and FWIW using the version of NFS which
came with VMS at that time you ran into the 2GB (or 4GB?) file size
limit, so no point going for DVD sizes).
> Is there any other option with these ISO images?
--
Paul Sture
Jan-Erik Soderholm
Nov 7, 2012, 7:35:57 AM11/7/12
to
LD version/module and all timestamps are the same.
So I'm running the builtin LD then. :-) This is used quite
a lot since all of Python runs from two LDA disks/devices.
I see that Jurgs version is at 9.7 and there are quite a few
changes from 8.2, such as full 64-bit use. Time to upgrade
to Jurgs version I guess.
May I also at the same time recomend DFU from Jurgs d/l page:
http://www.digiater.nl/dfu.html
Jan-Erik.
MG
Nov 7, 2012, 7:36:35 AM11/7/12
to
On 6-11-2012 21:02, Phillip Helbig---undress to reply wrote:
> Is there any other option with these ISO images?
You're lucky that our dear fellow VMS user and porter S.M. Schweda
doesn't appear to be around much these days as you can't of course
speak of "ISO" images (in the case of VMS installation media).
The only thing I don't understand is what you mean with any other
option. Did you have anything in particular in mind, as to this?
- MG
Jan-Erik Soderholm
Nov 7, 2012, 7:41:10 AM11/7/12
to
Paul Sture wrote 2012-11-07 13:00:
> In article <k7bqdi$u2g$5...@online.de>,
> hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---undress to reply)
> wrote:
>
>> In article <nospam-259D0F....@news.chingola.ch>, Paul Sture
>> <nos...@sture.ch> writes:
>>
>>> Do you have any standalone external disks?
>>
>> I have enough disks. I have moved to using SBBs exclusively. I have
>> enough of all sizes.
>>
>>> I used to have a 1GB
>>> external disk and I would use LD to mount the CD image and do a
>>> BACKUP/IMAGE to the external disk, then I could simply plug that disk
>>> into the target system of my choice. Then you simply boot from that
>>> disk.
>>
>> Yes, I was thinking of something similar. I think many people copied
>> CDs to disks with BACKUP/IMAGE then used the disk since it is quicker.
>
> Yes, much faster, even with more modern optical drives.
>
>> I've never used LD. Where do I get it? How easy is it to download,
>> install, set up and use?
>
> http://www.digiater.nl/lddriver.html
>
> There's a small learning curve. Use LD HELP.
>
> I have also used it to create tape backup sets on an external NFS
> volume.
Is that using the "LM" interface to LD ?
> In article <k7bqdi$u2g$5...@online.de>,
> hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---undress to reply)
> wrote:
>
>> In article <nospam-259D0F....@news.chingola.ch>, Paul Sture
>> <nos...@sture.ch> writes:
>>
>>> Do you have any standalone external disks?
>>
>> I have enough disks. I have moved to using SBBs exclusively. I have
>> enough of all sizes.
>>
>>> I used to have a 1GB
>>> external disk and I would use LD to mount the CD image and do a
>>> BACKUP/IMAGE to the external disk, then I could simply plug that disk
>>> into the target system of my choice. Then you simply boot from that
>>> disk.
>>
>> Yes, I was thinking of something similar. I think many people copied
>> CDs to disks with BACKUP/IMAGE then used the disk since it is quicker.
>
> Yes, much faster, even with more modern optical drives.
>
>> I've never used LD. Where do I get it? How easy is it to download,
>> install, set up and use?
>
> http://www.digiater.nl/lddriver.html
>
> There's a small learning curve. Use LD HELP.
>
> I have also used it to create tape backup sets on an external NFS
> volume.
(One can create container files that emulates tape drives.)
Jan-Erik.
Paul Sture
Nov 7, 2012, 9:27:36 AM11/7/12
to
In article <k7dkt6$7mu$1...@news.albasani.net>,
> (One can create container files that emulates tape drives.)
Beware though. I've forgotten which version of VMS and LDDRIVER I was
using at the time, but I tried creating a bunch of tape image files in
quick succession. It appeared to be creating those images
asynchronously so I could issue another create command before the last
was complete. With several running at once I ran out of pool and had a
system crash. What I did instead was to create the first one, and use
COPY for the rest.
IIRC you use the LM SWITCH command to change tapes from one image file
to the next when BACKUP requests a new tape. If you only have the
console available, submit the backup in a batch job, so that the console
is free to issue the SWITCH commands.
--
Paul Sture
Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik....@telia.com> wrote:
> Paul Sture wrote 2012-11-07 13:00:
> > In article <k7bqdi$u2g$5...@online.de>,
> >
> Paul Sture wrote 2012-11-07 13:00:
> > In article <k7bqdi$u2g$5...@online.de>,
> >
> > There's a small learning curve. Use LD HELP.
> >
> > I have also used it to create tape backup sets on an external NFS
> > volume.
>
> Is that using the "LM" interface to LD ?
Yes, the LM commands.
> >
> > I have also used it to create tape backup sets on an external NFS
> > volume.
>
> Is that using the "LM" interface to LD ?
> (One can create container files that emulates tape drives.)
using at the time, but I tried creating a bunch of tape image files in
quick succession. It appeared to be creating those images
asynchronously so I could issue another create command before the last
was complete. With several running at once I ran out of pool and had a
system crash. What I did instead was to create the first one, and use
COPY for the rest.
IIRC you use the LM SWITCH command to change tapes from one image file
to the next when BACKUP requests a new tape. If you only have the
console available, submit the backup in a batch job, so that the console
is free to issue the SWITCH commands.
--
Paul Sture
Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
Nov 7, 2012, 4:02:43 PM11/7/12
to
In article <5099868f$0$3196$e4fe...@dreader36.news.xs4all.nl>, MG
MOUNT/FOREIGN a disk then BACKUP the ISO image to it and boot from it
like from a CD.
<marc...@SPAMxs4all.nl> writes:
> > Is there any other option with these ISO images?
>
> How do you mean?
I meant another way to use them. As someone posted, one can
> > Is there any other option with these ISO images?
>
> How do you mean?
MOUNT/FOREIGN a disk then BACKUP the ISO image to it and boot from it
like from a CD.
Jan-Erik Soderholm
Nov 7, 2012, 5:09:13 PM11/7/12
to
a plain COPY (no switches besides /LOG). :-)
hb
Nov 8, 2012, 2:46:37 AM11/8/12
to
On 11/07/12 22:02, Phillip Helbig---undress to reply wrote:
>
> I meant another way to use them. As someone posted, one can
> MOUNT/FOREIGN a disk then BACKUP the ISO image to it and boot from it
> like from a CD.
COPY. You can't copy an (ISO) image file with BACKUP to a foreign
>
> I meant another way to use them. As someone posted, one can
> MOUNT/FOREIGN a disk then BACKUP the ISO image to it and boot from it
> like from a CD.
mounted disk, you have to use the COPY command. And that's what was
posted here, some time ago.
Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
Nov 8, 2012, 2:52:26 AM11/8/12
to
In article <k7fo0r$anv$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, hb <end...@inter.net>
writes:
OK. I've used MOUNT/FOREIGN only in connection with BACKUP (e.g.
restoring an /IMAGE backup), so I automatically thought of BACKUP.
Out of curiosity, why does COPY work and BACKUP doesn't? Of course,
they have different features, but for single files, and as far as the
end result is concerned, I've noticed a difference only in time stamps.
writes:
restoring an /IMAGE backup), so I automatically thought of BACKUP.
Out of curiosity, why does COPY work and BACKUP doesn't? Of course,
they have different features, but for single files, and as far as the
end result is concerned, I've noticed a difference only in time stamps.
hb
Nov 8, 2012, 4:02:04 AM11/8/12
to
On 11/08/12 08:52, Phillip Helbig---undress to reply wrote:
> Out of curiosity, why does COPY work and BACKUP doesn't? Of course,
> they have different features, but for single files, and as far as the
> end result is concerned, I've noticed a difference only in time stamps.
>
The backup (file) copy operation requires the target device to be file
> Out of curiosity, why does COPY work and BACKUP doesn't? Of course,
> they have different features, but for single files, and as far as the
> end result is concerned, I've noticed a difference only in time stamps.
>
structured.
$ mount/for LDA45:
%MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, X1 mounted on _EISNER$LDA45:
$ backup disk.img LDA45:
%BACKUP-F-MOUNTF11, LDA45:[HB]*.*;* must be mounted Files-11
$
COPY just writes record after record onto the device (that is VBNs to LBNs).
Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
Nov 8, 2012, 6:39:16 AM11/8/12
to
In article <k7fseb$les$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, hb <end...@inter.net>
writes:
OK. BACKUP can restore an /IMAGE backup saveset to a MOUNT/FOREIGN
device, though. Of course, this is not a file-copy operation per se.
writes:
device, though. Of course, this is not a file-copy operation per se.
Stephen Hoffman
Nov 8, 2012, 7:03:16 AM11/8/12
to
if you mount the ISO image via LD.
That's how I tested some of the VMS recording software, and without
chewing through even more CD and DVD blanks than I was already burning
through.
COPY /RECORDABLE_MEDIA (V8.3 and later) or cdrecord (V7.3-1 and later)
can also be used to burn the disk image to a local CD-R/RW or DVD+R/RW
drive.
Using BACKUP /IMAGE also has the advantage of getting the volume
structures correct on the target, where COPY (which will work) won't
have the bitmaps sized for the target storage; you'll get verification
errors with COPY-replicated media.
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
hb
Nov 8, 2012, 7:28:22 AM11/8/12
to
On 11/08/12 13:03, Stephen Hoffman wrote:
> BACKUP /IMAGE can copy an ISO image to a target foreign-mounted disk, if
> you mount the ISO image via LD.
Me would think this is then an image backup of the LD device, whatever
> BACKUP /IMAGE can copy an ISO image to a target foreign-mounted disk, if
> you mount the ISO image via LD.
that is connected to. And I'm sure you can foreign-mount the LD device
and use COPY to just copy LBNs, too :-)
> Using BACKUP /IMAGE also has the advantage of getting the volume
> structures correct on the target, where COPY (which will work) won't
> have the bitmaps sized for the target storage; you'll get verification
> errors with COPY-replicated media.
%ANALDISK-I-SHORTBITMAP, storage bitmap on RVN 1 does not cover the
entire device.
Which isn't a problem, here, just a waste of LBNs.
Glenn Everhart
Nov 13, 2012, 4:21:02 PM11/13/12
to
but that seems to be where it comes from. Odd it should be so; disk geometry
has been mostly pure invention of the disks, has been since at least mid
1990s.
Glenn Everhart
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