"Now there's a vastly superior way to write Microsoft Windows
Applications
Borland C++. The professional language that comes with compiler,
debugger, and all the tools you need to develop Windows 3.0 and
DOS applications--and you don't have to spend hundreds of dollars
more for a Windows Software Development Kit (SDK).
Borland C++ is from the people who know what professional
programmers want.
Designed by professionals, for professionals.
Every copy of Borland's C++ comes with:
* Complete support for building Windows applications.
* A 100% ANSI compatible C compiler and a C++ compiler.
* Turbo Drive Compiler and Environment running in protected mode.
* Pre-compiled headers to dramatically increase re-compilation speed.
* Turbo Debugger for DOS and Windows.
* Whitewater Resource Toolkit for creating icons, dialogs, bitmaps,
& menu bars.
* Turbo Profiler and Turbo Assembler."
List price is $495.
--
Jerry Gardner, NJ6A Altos Computer Systems
UUCP: {sun|pyramid|sco|amdahl|uunet}!altos!jerry 2641 Orchard Parkway
Internet: je...@altos.com San Jose, CA 95134
Guns don't kill people, bullets do. (408) 432-6200
--
Jim Kenyon -- jke...@css.itd.umich.edu
University of Michigan, Division of Kinesiology, Motor Behavior Lab
401 Washtenaw Ave, Ann Arbor, MI 48109 -- (313) 763-0498
Direct from Software Development '91:
"Now there's a vastly superior way to write Microsoft Windows
Applications
Borland C++. The professional language that comes with compiler,
debugger, and all the tools you need to develop Windows 3.0 and
DOS applications--and you don't have to spend hundreds of dollars
more for a Windows Software Development Kit (SDK).
Borland C++ is from the people who know what professional
programmers want.
Designed by professionals, for professionals.
Every copy of Borland's C++ comes with:
* Complete support for building Windows applications.
* A 100% ANSI compatible C compiler and a C++ compiler.
* Turbo Drive Compiler and Environment running in protected mode.
* Pre-compiled headers to dramatically increase re-compilation speed.
* Turbo Debugger for DOS and Windows.
* Whitewater Resource Toolkit for creating icons, dialogs, bitmaps,
& menu bars.
* Turbo Profiler and Turbo Assembler."
List price is $495.
I just called the Borland order desk for the 5th time this week, third time
today. They deny having a C++ or Pascal for Windows. If pushed hard enough
they will allow as how they may eventualy have one, but as of today, no way.
+-----------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
| | |
| Larry Maturo | Opinions expressed herein must be |
| Applied Research Laboratories | yours, neither I nor my employer have |
| University of Texas at Austin | any. |
| P.O. Box 8029 +----------------------------------------+
| Austin, Texas 78713-8029 | |
| | When you're as great as I am it's hard |
| larry @titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu | to be modest, but I succeed where |
| | others fail. |
+-----------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
I called Wednesday and was told the sales staff had received the briefing
on the new product on Tuesday, and it should be available by early next
week. No other details, I'm afraid.
Tony Hodgson
ahod...@hstbme.mit.edu
Hmmm. I called them yesterday (the 13th) and they confirmed that yes,
they did announce C++ for windows. They'll start taking orders next
Tuesday, but have no further information today.
- David Andrews tarpit!bilver!dandrews
Path: titan!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!think.com!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!bloom-picayune.mit.edu!ahodgson
From: ahod...@athena.mit.edu (Antony Hodgson)
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.programmer
Date: 14 Feb 91 15:18:04 GMT
References: <46...@gumby.Altos.COM> <LARRY.91F...@unicorn.titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu>
Sender: ne...@athena.mit.edu (News system)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Lines: 12
Tony Hodgson
ahod...@hstbme.mit.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I called today and they let me order it (2/14/91). If you are upgrading
from Turbo C++ Professional to Borland C++ (thats right, not Turbo C++)
you need to have your serial numbers for both Turbo C++ and the Debugger.
In Texas the total upgrade cost (upgrade, Texas tax, and $10.00 shipping
fee) approximately $116.00. They do not have a ship date yet, though
I've seen on the net both the 29th of the month and also that they were
already shipping. Considering the cost of the MS SDK and MS C 6.0 and
the fact that MS C 6.0 is a disaster, this is a deal I can`t refuse.
I got an upgrade offer in my mail box today! Upgrade from
Turbo C or Turbo C++ is $149.95, upgrade from Professionals
is $99.95. Retail price is $495.95!
The brochure says:
Borland C++ gives you everything you need to generate
Windows programs and Dynamic Link Libraries (DLL's).
And with the included Whitewater Resource Toolkit, you
can visually create icons, bit maps, dialogs, menus and
other essentials for your Windows applications. Even
better, since Borland C++ gives you the MS Windows
header file and resource compiler, you don't need the
MS SDK.
I don't really know what a resource compiler is, can somebody
explain?
(By the way, they don't call it Turbo any more. It is now
called Borland C++. And it is bundled with Profiler/Assembler/
Debugger, so there is no Pro package avail.)
Bryan So
To order via this method, they require a letter from your school /
faculty member on school letterhead "introducing" you as a registered
student. Mail this with Credit Card info to:
Borland International
Educational Sales Department
PO Box 660001
Scotts Valley, CA 95067-0001
Hope this helps,
Darrell Kienzle
dm...@Virginia.EDU
I just called the Borland order desk for the 5th time this week, third time
today. They deny having a C++ or Pascal for Windows. If pushed hard enough
they will allow as how they may eventualy have one, but as of today, no way.
TC++ 2.0 is NOT a window application. You run it from not-so-good-old DOS,
but you can write Windows programs with it.
--
Timo Suhonen I am logged in, therefore I am suh...@nic.funet.fi
suh...@kunto.jyu.fi
Opinions(?) are mine (if not stolen), NOT those of Univ. of Jyvaskyla.
>The brochure says:
> Borland C++ gives you everything you need to generate
> Windows programs and Dynamic Link Libraries (DLL's).
> And with the included Whitewater Resource Toolkit, you
> can visually create icons, bit maps, dialogs, menus and
> other essentials for your Windows applications. Even
> better, since Borland C++ gives you the MS Windows
> header file and resource compiler, you don't need the
> MS SDK.
>I don't really know what a resource compiler is, can somebody
>explain?
I heard second-hand about a demo of this that was given: since I didn't
see this first-hand, take it with a (big) grain of salt. The claim was that
the demo showed them building some program in both the MS and Borland
development environments on identical machines: the program took 50
seconds to build in the MS environment, 20 seconds in the Borland one.
Then they changed something and rebuilt it: MS took another 50 seconds,
Borland took 3. Apparently the difference on the second compile has
something to do with pre-compilation of all the header file info that
hardly ever changes (how often do you edit stdio.h ?) into a file that
is saved and available to the second compile. I don't know if this is
the "resource compiler" you mentioned, but it might be.
--
Flint Pellett, Global Information Systems Technology, Inc.
1800 Woodfield Drive, Savoy, IL 61874 (217) 352-1165
uunet!gistdev!flint or fl...@gistdev.gist.com
I just got my upgrade coupon. If you own TC or TC++ the upgrade price is
$149.95. If you own TC or TC++ Professional it's $99.95. It liss for $495.95
Thought you'd like to know ...
Steve
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
resn...@netcom.com, apple!camphq!105!steve.resnick, IFNA: 1:143/105.0,
USNail: 530 Lawrence Expressway, Suite 374
Sunnyvale, Ca 94086
- In real life: Steve Resnick. Flames, grammar and spelling errors >/dev/null
0x2b |~ 0x2b, THAT is the question.
The Asylum OS/2 BBS - (408)263-8017 12/2400,8,1 - Running Maximus CBCS 1.2
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This raises another question: What if I want to use some of the
Zortech libraries. Can I along with the windows libraries? What
problems must I look out for?
--Larry
Hmmm, I think a better idea is for me to sell my existing TC++ Pro
to someone and buy C++ 2.0 with the Edu discount...
--
Dennis Lou || "But Yossarian, what if everyone thought that way?"
dl...@ucsd.edu || "Then I'd be crazy to think any other way!"
[backbone]!ucsd!dlou |+====================================================
dl...@ucsd.BITNET |Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak went to my high school.
[Much information on the introduction of Borland C++ and the windows utilities
it includes and a few other things deleted]
>I don't really know what a resource compiler is, can somebody
>explain?
>
>(By the way, they don't call it Turbo any more. It is now
> called Borland C++. And it is bundled with Profiler/Assembler/
> Debugger, so there is no Pro package avail.)
>
>
>Bryan So
>
The resource compiler is a utility that compiles resources such as icons, menus
dialog boxes, and other "resources" that Windows uses into the .exe file.
According to the SDK manual for Windows 2.xx (MS wants more to upgrade than
Borland wants for the student edition of Borland C++, and I'm just a poor
student that got a really good deal on the SDK...) you must define your
resources in a resource script file (usually having a .rc extension), and
then use the resource compiler to compile them into your .exe file. The
resources themselves can either be hard-coded into the source itself, or put
into the resource file. Generally, the resource file is the easier method,
since you can simply include a line such as
mycursor CURSOR mycursor.cur
to define a cursor found in the bitmap file mycursor.cur, instead of hard-
coding the bitmap into the source with an array. The resource compiler also
allows you to re-compile the resource portion of a file without re-compiling
the code, saving quite a bit of effort, as you can tell by the sample times
Borland gave.
The resource file is also the recommended meathod of including the text i
application, since a string can be included just as easily as an icon.
Microsoft states that this makes translating to other languages easier, since
all the translator's work is in one file, and the source doesn't have to be
included.
I'm sure someone who is an experienced Windows programmer could give a much
better (and up to date) explanation, but this should give you the general
idea. For an example, look at any of the windows applications on
cica.cica.indiana.edu or simtel that contain soruce code, and examine the
.rc file. You may also consider asking the "experts" in
comp.windows.ms.programmer, since I'm reasonably sure they could help.
--
Scott A. Laird | Any semblance of the above to anything is purely
la...@midway.uchicago.edu | coincidental, as it was the result of an infinite
The University of Chicago | number of monkeys sneaking in to use my computer
| for the afternoon.
A resource compiler is a tool which allows you to (much more simply than
in C code) define the resources in your application. Resources are things
like menus, dialog boxes, bitmaps, icons, etc. I have not worked with
Windows development before, but I do presentation manager code occasionally,
and the MS PM SDK has a resource compiler as part of the package. From
reading Borland's intro on TC++ 2.0, that is what I believe they are
talking about (Hey! Don't change my buzzwords on me!)
Cheers!
I called Borland about the upgrade, and the guy asked me for my certificate
number for the upgrade (if you have the registered product you WILL get a
certificate in the mail)...I gave it to him, and he had my name and
address. Fine. However, he did NOT have what product I had purchased! He
asked me specifically whethere I wished to upgrade from TC++ or TC++ Pro.
Well, I have the Turbo Tools but I just purchased them last week and didn't
send in the registration card yet, and thus I told him I had TC++ Pro (I
wasn't really lying).
He said okay, the upgrade is 99 dollars.
That saved me 50 dollars. Now, I believe everything I did was legal, but
what intrigues me is the fact that they took my word on it. They know
where I live but they DON'T know what I own?!
Interesting....
Brian
I don't think they really care what you bought. I purchased Turbo Assembler
and Debugger 1.0 last year. I got an upgrade coupon for the new version of
Turbo Assembler, so I called them up to order the upgrade. The lady on the
other end offered me TC++ 1.0 Pro, even though the last Turbo C I had purchased
was 1.0, a long time back. I got it at the upgrade price of $125, no hassle,
no fuss.
Last week when I ordered BC++ 2.0 I was asked for my upgrade coupon number.
I explained that I hadn't received it yet, and prepared for a minor hassle
getting her to take my order. I needn't have worried - the order clerk just
added me to the system, took my order for the $99 upgrade from my TC++ 1.0
Pro, and that was that. No hassle, no problem, no fuss. I even had my original
disks out to give her the serial numbers, but she never asked for them.
My guess is that they make enough money selling the packages at the upgrade
price that they don't have to be ultra-persnickety-careful about who they
sell to. Clearly they also recognize the value of giving their current
customers a hassle-free upgrade to a new product. By showing trust and
taking the customer's word for it, they do nothing but improve their customer
relations (which is no bad thing). I seriously doubt that Borland loses
any money by selling the upgrades at that price, so it's a big WIN for
them in every department, with the added benefit of being a WIN for us.
It's kinda like their no-nonsense license ageement - a no-nonsense upgrade
policy. You other software manufacturers out there reading this, you'd do
well to follow Borland's fine example.
--
Scott Coleman tm...@uiuc.edu
"Unisys has demonstrated the power of two. That's their stock price today."
- Scott McNealy on the history of mergers in the computer industry.
Shane();
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From the keyboard of: email: sda...@cs.wright.edu
Shane A. Dawalt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>volatile keyword... My question: What must I do? Must I go in
>and "condition" any SDK header file so that it finally pleases the
>Zortech compiler, or do I use the Zortech supplied header file and
>change "environ" to reference the Zortech pointer to the environment
>(envptr)? Or what? How should things be configured?
I would not attempt to use the includes that appear in the windev\include
directory other than windows.h. I would try to make Petzold's code work
with whatever Zortech is using as a pointer to the environment. That will
work better than trying to kludge something of Microsoft's to work with
Zortech.
>This raises another question: What if I want to use some of the
>Zortech libraries. Can I along with the windows libraries? What
>problems must I look out for?
I use ONLY Zortech's libraries (with the exception of libw obviously).
I had no end of troubles trying to make slibcew, etc work with Zortech
and then I found a file on Zortech's BBS (206)822-6907 called WIN3KIT.COM.
All it does is take your zl?.lib files and combine them with the libs
that came with the SDK to produce libraries that work excellently. All I
typically link with is libw.lib, zlsw.lib, and pls.lib. This way if you
link with a tool library you shouldn't have any problems.
John Munsch
Q: Why did Microsoft codename Basic for Windows Thunder?
A: Because they couldn't call it Lightning.
Software manufacturers make MORE money by selling upgrades than by having
some other person (dealer, mail-order place, ...) sell the original product
for them. At $99.00, Borland makes $99.00 in-hand (less duplicating fees).
A product that costs $99.00 in the retail market probably makes the company
that wrote it $50.00 to $60.00 (or less).
--
Eugene J. Yurek Internet: e...@honasa.att.com
AT&T Bell Laboratories UUCP: ...!att!honasa!ejy
Holmdel, NJ Voice: (201) 949-3753
I just received my upgrade coupon for Borland C++ version 2.0;
price is $99.95 (from Turbo-C professional or Turbo-C++ professional),
and $149.95 (from Turbo-C or Turbo-C++ not-professional).
The blurb says:
Borland C++ lets you develop standard DOS applications now
and -- when you're ready -- create Windows applications
and Window's Dynamic Link Libraries (DLLs).
...
A MS Resource compiler plus WINDOWS.H to eliminate the need
for Microsoft's ... Software Development Kit.
other goodies are new turbo drive compiler for huge apps (does this take care
of the 'out of memory' problem when there are symbols turned on for all files?),
precompiled headers, protected mode support, new debugger, Whitewater resource
toolkit.
Sure sounds like they have a Windows compiler.
I just received an update card good for Turbo C to Turbo C++ 2.0.
When I called to find out if I upgraded if I could sell my
Turbo C and transfer the registration, they were more than happy
to take my order today.
By the way, they say that NO you cannot sell the old version
when you upgrade. "Either destroy it or put it on the shelf."
--
-----
Dion Hollenbeck (619) 455-5590 x2814
Megatek Corporation, 9645 Scranton Road, San Diego, CA 92121
uunet!megatek!hollen or hol...@megatek.uucp
The thing that I liked about Borland is that they learn from their
mistakes. If you recall, the upgrade from TC 2.0 Professional to
TC++ 1.0 Professional did not include the Assembler manual. They
said that it hadn't changed that much, and you could use the other
one. By not sending the new manual, they were able to offer the
upgrade at such a low price.
They caught alot of flack on this. I really didn't like it when
they offered upgrades to people with other compiliers for the
same price I paid. Did they not get the Assembler manual?
Anyway, when I called for my upgrade, I asked them if I got all
the manuals, and the customer service rep said "Yes, we learned
our lesson." See if Microsoft does this for you.
Tom Haynes, t...@drd.com
I sent in my upgrade certificate. It had 2 boxes to check. One is an upgrade
from TC++ for $149.95, and the other from TC++ Pro for $99.95. Why they even
bother to offer the $149 one is beyond me. Oh, yeah sure, I will pay $50 more
:-).
I guess they just take your word for it.
I recently got an offer to get W4W at a discount price if you own some other
competing word processor. All they want is your signature stating that you
currently own one of the mentioned packages. No proof or anything.
Russ Poffenberger DOMAIN: pof...@sj.ate.slb.com
Schlumberger Technologies UUCP: {uunet,decwrl,amdahl}!sjsca4!poffen
1601 Technology Drive CIS: 72401,276
San Jose, Ca. 95110 (408)437-5254
If I wanted to use a "programmers environment" I'd use QuickC! Is
MS trying to integrate the professional users with the kiddies tinkering?
Anyone else out there an anoyed as I? SWITCH! MSC STILL has no C++,
why wait! BC++ supports Windows, (another $350.00 from MS!), Zortec
generates 386 code and supports VM! Both are probably better products
that MSC.
>Anyway, when I called for my upgrade, I asked them if I got all
>the manuals, and the customer service rep said "Yes, we learned
>our lesson." See if Microsoft does this for you.
^^^^^^^^^
Micro-screw-loyal-customers-soft
So, Microsoft, "What have you done for me lately?"
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with the general sentiment (though not the language) above. I
was a long time MSC user (and still hold a good size chunk of
Microsoft stock) and switched to Borland C++ recently. I really like
the windowing environment and was up and running with it almost
immediately. In contrast, I never became proficient with MSC PWB,
finding it counter-intuitive and generally a pain to use. I also
resent the Microsoft policy of issuing change pages for upgrades
instead of full manual sets. I don't like to put change pages into
my manuals until I'm sure I won't need to go back to prior versions.
The only thing I miss about MSC is its compiler switch that generates
function prototypes from the code, and I've picked up a stand-alone
utility that does that for me.
Perhaps the "penny is dropping", as the British say, for
Microsoft: I just got an "upgrade" notice, ala Borland, for
going to Excel from my current spreadsheet for $129. I
called them up, and they took my word for the fact that I'm
a Quattro Pro user. A harbinger of a policy shift maybe?
----
Scot McIntosh
Internet: p...@helios.nosc.mil
UUCP: {ihnp4,akgua,decvax,decwest,ucbvax}!sdscvax!nosc!psm
"It's not a bug, it's a limitation" - Microsoft Tech Assistant
AMEN.
Brian
That makes sense.
BTW, I ordered my copy of BC++ last thursday (Valentine's day, the first
day I saw the reports on the net) and IT'S ALREADY HERE! IT ARRIVED YESTERDAY!
Now that's what I call SERVICE! Way to go, Borland!
BTW, I haven't had much of a chance to play with it, so I can't give much in
the way of a report.
I can say that it looks nifty, however! ;-)
Actually, I think they're trying to grab more money from us... By providing
completely inadequate documentation with their products (and this is not
limited to MSC, check out such dogs as the W4W docs), they force you to go out
and buy their Microsoft Press books on the damn thing. So they save themselves
money on the software package, and they prop up their MS Press.
"We don't care. We don't have to. We're MicroSoft."
[with app. to Lilly Tomlin...]
Please try to refrain from speculation if you don't really know
for certain. Thanks.
1) Does the Borland C++ IDE run as a MS-Windows Application ??
2) If not, will it get along with Windows as a DOS application ??
3) Does the Borland Debugger run as a MS-Windows Application ??
4) Does the Borland Debugger debug any MS-Windows application,
or just those built with their tools ??
5) Does Borland C++ have a switch to generate DPMI Compliant binaries ??
6) Does Borland C++ have a switch to generate 386 Protected Mode binaries ??
7) Does Borland C++ have a switch to generate 386 real mode binaries ??
8) Does Borland ASM have a switch to generate DPMI Compliant binaries ??
9) Does Borland ASM have a switch to generate 386 Protected Mode binaries ??
10) Does Borland ASM have a switch to generate 386 real mode binaries ??
11) How much disk space does the whole thing take up ??
Ran Atkinson
ran...@Virginia.EDU
>Yes! Sorry if this is wasting bw, but maybe enough noise will knock some grey
>into some skulls at MS. Online docs may be nifty neato, but only as a
>compliment to printed docs. Also, how about including printed docs on HOW TO
Hmmm, I would say that On-Line docs make it easier for pirates to copy the
software. Why buy the software with the two manuals and On-Line help when
you can call your local friendly Pirate BBS and download a full copy WITH
DOCS! Sure makes it easier than typing them in.
My biggest problem is that QH is not a TSR (like Norton Guides). I have to
setup a macro to exit, load the mouse driver, execute QH, unload the mouse
and return to my editor. Sure defeats the Quick Lookup feature of QH!
I use the Norton Guides docs for TurboC++ 1.01 for all function references
and if I have a problem compiling or with the graphics library (which I don't
use much) then I break out the QH stuff or the idiot book I purchased.
Of course, if you're running OS/2, QH is a "TSR".
Carl Schelin
t...@mailer.jhuapl.edu
No, BC++ 2.0 comes with everything you need to write Windows apps. It even
has a special Windows version of Turbo Debugger. I have neither MSC nor the
SDK, but I was able to compile and run the sample WinApps with no trouble.
OK, I take that back - I had ONE slight problem (with the MicroSoft Resource
Compiler that came with the package): I installed everything in the \BC
subdirectory, instead of the default \BORLANDC subdirectory (I didn't want
to have to type BORLANDC all the time - OK, so I'm lazy ;-) Unfortunately,
this breaks the Resource Compiler, which says it can't find RCPP.ERR or
some such file. This file resides in the \BORLANDC\BIN subdirectory under
the default configuration, but of course on my system it resides in \BC\BIN,
and this appears to be the cause of the problem. Copying the file to the
same subdirectory as the program I am compiling allows RC to find this file,
but there's got to be a better way. Unfortunately, none of the command
line switches listed in the docs describe what to do about this error -
anyone else run into this, and what did you do to fix it?
>1) Does the Borland C++ IDE run as a MS-Windows Application ??
>2) If not, will it get along with Windows as a DOS application ??
>3) Does the Borland Debugger run as a MS-Windows Application ??
I can cover these first three:
1) the IDE is NOT a true Windows application. It's nearly identical to the
IDE in Turbo C++, with the addition of several new compiler options.
2) the IDE will work just fine in a DOS window, and that is the recommended
way to use it.
3) the debugger IS a Windows app, but it doesn't run in a window (go figure)
Also, Borland ships a bunch of neat Windows development utilities with the
new C++ that put the Windows SDK tool to shame.
- Phil @ Buckskin Technologies
Actually, Borland announced that it was NOT offering TC++ 1.0 as an upgrade to
TC 2.0 owners. Instead, it would offer TC 2.0 owners a special price. It
Borland's mind, the path from TC to TC++ was NOT an upgrade, but the purchase
of entirely new product. So the special price to TC 2.0 owners was for the
purchase of the entire TC++ package.
Now, if you owned TC Professional and wanted to buy TC++ Professional, then
the offer here got a little muddy. Most thought that they were being offered
a special price to purchase the entire new TC++ Professional package.
However, Borland viewed the debugger and assembler components as upgrades,
while the TC++ component was not. The only problem is that they did not tell
anyone until people started complaining that the package arrived with two
manuals missing.
Borland even confused its own people over this. Very shortly after TC++ 1.0
shipped, Borland saw the light and established a policy to ship the missing
manuals to any TC++ 1.0 Professional special price purchaser who complained
about not getting a complete package.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Gallagher kgal...@digi.lonestar.org OR ...!uunet!digi!kgallagh
DSC Communications Corporation Addr: MS 152, 1000 Coit Rd, Plano, TX 75075
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Two things here: Borland C++ 2.0 will generate "regular" DOS programs
just like Turbo C++, or at YOUR option, you can write a program that
will be a true windows application (as opposed to a "dos" program
running out of a window).
You DO NOT need to buy MS' SDK. Borland supplies everything you need
(except a tutorial on how to write windows programs. You need to buy
the Charles Petzold book for that (~1000 pages, BEST tutorial on the
market)). Borland SUGGESTS that you may want to buy one or more of
the SDK manuals that are available from MS Press and can be found in
Walton's, Dalton's, etc. However, they do ship a BIG file that is a
SDK library reference manual that can be called up through the IDE
help facility (just hit F1).
Once you've learned how to write a windows program and have
successfully compiled it, you will need Windows 3.0 to run it. No way
around that .....
--
A new world record
in the javalin throw
/ /
/ I
-------------------------------------------------
David Sampson Harris Corporation
dsam...@x102a.ess.harris.com Gov't Aerospace Systems Divison
uunet!x102a!dsampson Melbourne, Florida
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, does anyone know why Borland would price BC++ at $495 when anyone
can buy TC++ pro for $150 (I've actually seen prices as low as $55 on
the net) and then the upgrade for $99: total price $250 or less?
__
Elliot Mednick (ell...@encore.com) | This .signature file is undergoing
Encore Computer Corp. | remodeling for your convenience.
Marlborough, MA. 01752 | Please pardon our appearance.
The $495 is really only list price, I don't imagine you'll find anyone
paying that, except the Federal Government or some businesses. I know the
list price for TC++ Pro is higher than $150...
Either way, they make money. They'll probably make almost (or more) money
on your $99 upgrade as they will selling the $495 package to the dealer.
What about transferring (giving away) the license? I regularly give away my
old copies of compilers when I upgrade. Sure, they can't upgrade, but what
the heck. I have no use for it.
With all the pro-Borland posts, how about we create alt.fans.borland?? :->
--
Mike Castle (Nexus) S08...@UMRVMA.UMR.EDU (preferred) | XEDIT: Emacs
mca...@mcs213k.cs.umr.edu (unix mail-YEACH!)| on a REAL
Life is like a clock: You can work constantly, and be right | operating
all the time, or not work at all, and be right twice a day. | system. :->
In general, since you will be linking with the Microsoft libraries from the SDK,
you will need to use the .h files supplied by the SDK. Make sure those are found
in the include path before the Zortech ones.
Secondly, make sure the SDK libraries are in the command to LINK before the
Zortech libraries, and use the /NOE switch to LINK to make sure it accesses
the libraries in the right order.
The main problems to watch out for:
MSC and ZTC return floats and doubles using different mechanisms. Thus, avoid
trying to link together a module compiled with ZTC and one with MSC that
returns floats or doubles between them.
Some SDK sample code uses // comments in C code. This is not accepted by ZTC
(although it is accepted by ZTC++). // comments are not ANSI C.
Some SDK sample code uses incorrect prototypes, as in:
void func(short i);
void func(i)
short i;
{ ... }
These declarations are incompatible (the short is promoted to an int in the
second form due to ANSI C rules), the fix is to use the fully prototyped form:
void func(short i)
{ ... }
I hope this will get you started successfully.
I think you can get the upgrade for free if you purchased TC++pro recently. Of
course, I don't have the upgrade instructions handy and am going by the MSC
upgrade instructions and memory.
Actually, the Federal Government probably pays less than just about anyone
short of student discount or employee discount. I purchased TC++ for $50
as an employee of a reseller and the FG gets theirs on GSA schedule for about
10% under dealer cost. (MSC6.0 can be had for 317 locally and 279 from
the reseller (+4.5% +5% of cost), employee purchase of 119. The GSA price
would be about 250 or so.)
Disclaimer: Since I don't work for that company any more, everything is
from current contacts and memory. Nothing should be taken as fact nor
used as a bargaining chip with dealing with resellers.
Carl Schelin
t...@mailer.jhuapl.edu
Pardon my ignorance, but I thought a major benefit of windows applications
was that they used library routines which make them display-independent.
(...or was the author refering to the DOS debugger?). Other windows
applications seem to run on anything as long as it has a windows driver..
whats the deal with the debugger?
Actually the cost is about $24 (plus handling charges and tax). I
was in this condition (recent convert from MS C and QC) and had just
ordered TC++ Pro. I just ordered my upgrade yesterday.
Bruce
--
Bruce W. Mohler
Systems Programmer (aka Staff Analyst)
br...@sdcc10.ucsd.edu
voice: 619-586-2218
Windows does hide the low-level implementation details from a program,
so if the program works on one display device it's likely to do
something at least slightly useful on another display device rather
than just die like some DOS apps that encounter display devices that
they don't know how to deal with.
Unfortunately that's not quite the same as device independence. It
is quite possible for a Windows program to get hold of the _logical_
structure of the display device; in fact for advanced graphics it's
practically essential. For example, Windows allows a program to be
aware of the pixel (width, height, bit planes) and physical (width,
height, aspect ratio) attributes of the display device; this allows
you to write programs that can work great on one device and yet do
inappropriate things on another (such as choosing the wrong size
fonts or inappropriate sizes or aspect ratios for various objects,
or relying on colors that don't exist, etc). This sort of thing
can mean that although the program does _something_ on a display
device for which it wasn't intended, it doesn't do something very
_useful_.
This isn't to say that that's the usual case with Windows programs;
just that it's possible. Most Windows programs probably don't have
problems like this, but the more sophisticated programs (graphically
speaking, not necessarily sophisticated in other ways) are the ones
that are more likely to be doing fancy things and are therefore more
likely to have problems. And of course poorly-written programs of
any level of sophistication will have more problems than well-written
programs. Even Microsoft isn't immune: try running Reversi on a
CGA-resolution screen sometime.
Perhaps there are problems of this type with the debugger, or perhaps
they just don't want to commit themselves to fixing any problems at
this time because they haven't had the time to test it sufficiently
for their satisfaction. Or maybe they're replacing some of the low-
level drivers for the device and haven't written this one yet (shudder),
though offhand I don't see why that should be necessary.
Bruce C. Wright
Well the BC++ debugger does run when windows is running, but it is
not actually a windows application, its more like a DOS application
that is being very friendly with windows. It runs full screen and looks
and feels exactly like it does running under DOS. I don't know exactly what
they have done, but it is NOT a windows App therefore it is not display
independent like a windows App. I actually tried to run it while
in 800x600 mode, it runs fine... But windows is screwed up when you exit
as the video mode has been changed to character mode not graphics, and windows
doesn't realise this and therefore doesn't reset the 800x600 mode.
Still its a lot better than no debugger at all!! its even better than
running a debugger on a separate system (Which you can still do).
Still playing so can't review it yet.....
Jim
--
Jim Morris, E-Mail: j...@shograf.com Voice: (415) 903-3887
_
SHO graphics. Practical PEX
I am new to Windows programming and am using Borland C++ to get started. I
noticed that when I leave the debugger the Active Title Bar (is that what it's
called?) has changed from grey (or whatever the default color is) to maroon.
Any idea on how to stop this? Alternatively, is there anything I can do to
change it back (short of exiting windows). This is a BOCA EGA 286 systems with
2MB of extended memory.
---
Barry L. Wallis USENET: wal...@labc.dec.com
Database Consultant Prodigy (don't laugh): DNMX41A
U.S. DECtp Resource Center DECUServe: EISNER::WALLIS (not on the net yet)
Los Angeles, CA "No one voted for me, I represent myself"
---
When you fire up TD for W, it runs in full screen and looks like the
"regular" Turbo Debugger, that is it is rows and columns of text, not
a windows program with a main window etc. However, it definitely
debugs your windows code and let's you switch between your windows app
that's being debugged and the TD screen with a key-stroke (can't
remember if it was Alt-F5, or what).
Borland states in their docs that the "regular" TD supports cga, ega,
vga, super VGA, and so forth. But to use TD for Windows in VGA mode
you must stay with the conventional (i.e. MS supplied) VGA driver for
windows, not one supplied by your card vendor.
It sure is a far cry from the days of copy protection. The world is
a nicer place if one's word is accepted at face value.