CRYPTOANARCHIST INFILTRATION ALERT
The Executioner
THE INTERNET OUTLET
HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS A CRYPTOANARCHIST CYBERSPACE INFILTRATION SITE
TO A 93.67% DEGREE CERTAINTY VIA PSEUDOSPOOFING DETECTION SOFTWARE.
MAIL, POSTS, AND OTHER EMANATIONS FROM THIS OUTLET ARE CONSIDERED
LIKELY TO BE HIGHLY SUBVERSIVE AND DANGEROUS CRYPTOANARCHIST
DISINFORMATION AND PROPAGANDA FROM ONE OR MORE CRYPTOANARCHIST
CO-CONSPIRATORS. MULTIPLE SENSITIVE INTERNET MAILING LISTS, FAQS, AND
FORUMS HAVE BEEN CONTAMINATED.
INFORMATION ORIGINATING FROM THIS OUTLET IN THE FOLLOWING AREAS IS
PARTICULARLY SUSPECT:
- PROMOTION OF PSEUDOANONYMITY AND THE COLLECTION OF MULTIPLE FAKE
CYBERSPACE IDENTITIES (MISTATED AS `PURE ANONYMITY')
- PROMOTION OF UNTRACEABLE `BLACK' CASH AND RELATED CRYPTOGRAPHIC
TECHNIQUES (PARTICULARLY CHAUMIAN)
- FALSE REFERENCES AND DISINFORMATION ON THE ACTUAL `CRYPTOANARCHIST' AGENDA
- PROMOTION OF THE `COLLAPSE OF GOVERNMENTS'
- SUBTLE ANTI-DEMOCRACY GOALS AND ANTI-DEMOCRATIC SENTIMENTS
- PROMOTION OF DISINFORMATION, PROPAGANDA, AND DECEPTION E.G. IN THE MEDIA
- PROMOTION OF TAX EVASION
- PROMOTION OF CRIMINAL EVASION OF IDENTITIFICATION MEASURES FOR E.G.
BLACK MARKETEERING
- ELEVATING AND PERPETUATING SUBVERSIONS OF IDENTITY E.G.
PSEUDOSPOOFING AND PSEUDOPOOLS AS `LIBERATING FLUIDITY OF IDENTITY' ON THE INTERNET
- PROMOTION OF ABUSE OF INFORMATION THROUGH E.G. LEAKS, BURGLARY, OR ESPIONAGE
- FALSE DETAILS ON PERSONAL IDENTITY AND CORROBORATION OF THE EXISTENCE
OF OTHER IDENTITIES
- INFILTRATION, PROVOCATION, AND SABOTAGE OF MAILING LIST DISCUSSIONS
OUTSIDE OF CHARTERS INTO THE `CRYPTOANARCHIST' AGENDA
- PROMOTION OF OTHER FAKE IDENTITIES
- PUBLIC AND PRIVATE ATTACKS ON REAL IDENTITIES EMPLOYING
COUNTERMEASURES AGAINST THE CRYPTOANARCHIST MOVEMENT
- MANIPULATION AND TERRORISM IN PRIVATE MAIL
- COLLECTION OF SENSITIVE PRIVATE INFORMATION AND MAIL FROM
COMMUNICATING `OUTSIDE' INDIVIDUALS
INTERNET INDIVIDUALS AND ORGANIZATIONS ARE ADVISED TO EXAMINE AND PURGE
ARCHIVES AND RECORDS OF ALL INFORMATION ORIGINATING FROM THIS OUTLET AS
CRYPTOANARCHIST DISINFORMATION. ITEMS RECOVERED FROM THIS OUTLET SHOULD
BE REPOSTED FOR PUBLIC EXPOSURE.
QUESTIONS REGARDING THIS ADVISORY ALERT CAN BE ADDRESSED TO
BACKGROUND INFORMATION ON THE CRYPTOANARCHIST MOVEMENT IS AVAILABLE IN
RISKS 15.25, 15.27, AND 15.28X, FTP CRVAX.SRI.COM DIRECTORY /RISKS:
ADDITIONAL BULLETINS WILL BE ISSUED AS EVENTS WARRANT.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to he...@anon.penet.fi.
Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized,
and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned.
Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to ad...@anon.penet.fi.
Nick Szabo
>ATTENTION ALL INTERNET PERSONNEL
>THE INTERNET OUTLET
>HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS A CRYPTOANARCHIST CYBERSPACE INFILTRATION SITE
>TO A 93.67% DEGREE CERTAINTY VIA PSEUDOSPOOFING DETECTION SOFTWARE.
>....
Why Mr. Detweiler, that's mighty flattering of you!
Your charming theories might go down easier if you weren't also making
death threats and accusations of criminal violations against several people
who have recently disagreed with you, trying to track down our
physical locations, and otherwise doing your best to scare the
shit out of net users with your digital stalking. No, Mr.
Detweiler, I'm not "pseudospoofing", but with nutcases like you
on the net I sure as hell wish I was.
Nick Szabo sz...@netcom.com
--
Nick Szabo sz...@netcom.com
Ed Carp
: ATTENTION ALL INTERNET PERSONNEL
: THE INTERNET OUTLET
: HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS A CRYPTOANARCHIST CYBERSPACE INFILTRATION SITE
: TO A 93.67% DEGREE CERTAINTY VIA PSEUDOSPOOFING DETECTION SOFTWARE.
[crapola deleted]
Oh, give me a frigging break... <sigh>
--
Ed Carp, N7EKG e...@wetware.com 510/659-9560
an3...@anon.penet.fi, anon...@twwells.com
If you want magic, let go of your armor. Magic is so much stronger than
steel! -- Richard Bach, "The Bridge Across Forever"
Paul Ferguson x2044
: ATTENTION ALL INTERNET PERSONNEL
This is simply ridiculous. Another fanatic ("The Executioner," this time)
ranting about psuedo-annonymous entities.
I vote that we dub thee, "The S.Boxx Syndrome."
,-) <included for the humor impaired>
____________________________________________________________________________
Paul Ferguson
Sprint Managed Router Network Engineering tel: 703.904.2437
Herndon, Virginia USA e-mail: ferg...@icp.net
Sean Eric Fagan
>The Executioner (an1...@anon.penet.fi) wrote:
>[crapola deleted]
>Oh, give me a frigging break... <sigh>
Indeed. I've been debating whether or not to stop all postings from
"anon.penet.fi" from coming into my site (if they are too afraid to admit
who they are, why should I let them eat disk space?). I'd almost decided
not to, but now I have.
Bear Giles
issue]
In article <CH5C3...@khijol.yggdrasil.com> e...@khijol.yggdrasil.com (Ed Carp) writes:
>The Executioner (an1...@anon.penet.fi) wrote:
>: ATTENTION ALL INTERNET PERSONNEL
>
>: sz...@netcom.com
>
>: HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS A CRYPTOANARCHIST CYBERSPACE INFILTRATION SITE
>: TO A 93.67% DEGREE CERTAINTY VIA PSEUDOSPOOFING DETECTION SOFTWARE.
>
>[crapola deleted]
>
>Oh, give me a frigging break... <sigh>
Unfortunately, the net-lit can look at this post and hear it scream
I KNOW NOTHING AND I'M PROUD. After all, it treats the internet as
a single block "Internet personnel", uses all capital letters (except
for the infidel "sz...@netcom.com", uses big jargon words ("crypto-
anarchist", "cyberspace", "infiltration site", "pseudospoofing",
and of course there is the truly bizarre "93.67%" statistic.
I would love to see the validation suite he used to get 4 significant
digits!
But for your average "man in the street", the very things we find
ridiculous about this post screams "reliability", since they're
used to carefully filtered news (TV, newspapers, etc) instead of
the unfiltered garbage that Usenet picks up.
Overall, I would say this is a *very* ominous development. *We*
know that "The Executioner (an1...@anon.penet.fi)" is a emotional
child hiding behind a pseudonym and deserves absolutely no respect
(except for the chutpaz to denouce a "pseudospoofer" from an
anonymous account!), but many people would miss these nuances.
I dunno. Perhaps he's trying to be subtle and illustrate the
problems he describes of szabo.... If so, he obviously doesn't
realize the necessary side-effects of this approach.
--
Bear Giles
be...@cs.colorado.edu/fsl.noaa.gov
Joe Foster of Borg
: ATTENTION ALL INTERNET PERSONNEL
: THE INTERNET OUTLET
: HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS A CRYPTOANARCHIST CYBERSPACE INFILTRATION SITE
: TO A 93.67% DEGREE CERTAINTY VIA PSEUDOSPOOFING DETECTION SOFTWARE.
: MAIL, POSTS, AND OTHER EMANATIONS FROM THIS OUTLET ARE CONSIDERED
: LIKELY TO BE HIGHLY SUBVERSIVE AND DANGEROUS CRYPTOANARCHIST
: DISINFORMATION AND PROPAGANDA FROM ONE OR MORE CRYPTOANARCHIST
: CO-CONSPIRATORS. MULTIPLE SENSITIVE INTERNET MAILING LISTS, FAQS, AND
: FORUMS HAVE BEEN CONTAMINATED.
[blah blah blah]
NO! When posting RANTS like THIS, you're supposed TO capitalize
RANDOM WORDS and phrases, not almost ALL OF them!
JEEZ! GET a CLUE!
--
Joe Foster (j...@bftsi0.uucp)
WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above They're coming to
because my cats have apparently learned to type. take me away, ha ha!
tim werner
>[Cross-posted to alt.wired since this seems a good topic for a future
>issue]
>In article <CH5C3...@khijol.yggdrasil.com> e...@khijol.yggdrasil.com (Ed Carp) writes:
>>The Executioner (an1...@anon.penet.fi) wrote:
>>: ATTENTION ALL INTERNET PERSONNEL
Am I missing something? I thought it was a joke.
======================================================================
A chubby man with a white beard and a red suit will approach you soon.
Avoid him. He's a Commie.
======================================================================
Glenn R. Stone
>ATTENTION ALL INTERNET PERSONNEL
>THE INTERNET OUTLET
>HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS A CRYPTOANARCHIST CYBERSPACE INFILTRATION SITE
>TO A 93.67% DEGREE CERTAINTY VIA PSEUDOSPOOFING DETECTION SOFTWARE.
Hey, I'll admit it. I post from that site, and I'm an anarchistic,
cypherpunking rabble-rouser.... and damn proud of it. I don't know
who this weenie (thoe quoted poster, not szabo) is, but I think he
needs some lessons in how to stir up trouble.... This kind of silly,
BBS-like ka-ka (posted anonymously, no less!) just won't cut it.
-- Glenn R. Stone (tali...@netcom.com)
"If a juror feels that the statue involved [...] is unfair, or that it
infringes on the defendant's [...] rights, [...then] [t]hat juror must vote
'not guilty'[....] The law, itself, is on trial, quite as much as the cause
which is to be decided." -- Harlan F. Stone, Supreme Court Justice.
Paul Ferguson x2044
: [Cross-posted to alt.wired since this seems a good topic for a future
: issue]
Indeed. Perhaps they can contract Julian Dibble to do the story. ,-)
Bear, don't forget that the penet account has taken another twist;
"The Executioner" now calls himself "The Pervert."
Chalk another up to a wild, wierd world (.net).
Cheers,
Stephen M. Gardner
>ATTENTION ALL INTERNET PERSONNEL
>
>THE INTERNET OUTLET
>
>sz...@netcom.com
>
>HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS A CRYPTOANARCHIST CYBERSPACE INFILTRATION SITE
>TO A 93.67% DEGREE CERTAINTY VIA PSEUDOSPOOFING DETECTION SOFTWARE.
to your pseudospoofing detection software in the next release?
Say perhaps output in lowercase? ;-) Thankyou.
Yet another student leaves himself logged on and has to go to
the john.
smg
Charles Macmillan
Ah shut up.
--
My opinions are not to be distinguished from those of my employer.
il...@tezcat.chi.il.us -smoking mirror bbs- 312-850-0112
[EL CID]
This will probably sound stupid but I am wondering why there are'nt
any anon newsgroups. Instead of posting to a newsgroup anonymously you could
have a newsgroup like 'alt.anon.suicide or alt.anon.abortion'. Just a
thought.
Steve Davis
> Ah shut up.
Killfiles are wonderful. Bye bye Mr. Detweiler.
--
Steve Davis (st...@cis.ksu.edu)
Kansas State University
"BASIC is the Computer Science equivalent of 'Scientific Creationism'."
Nick Collision
>Why Mr. Detweiler, that's mighty flattering of you!
>
>Your charming theories might go down easier if you weren't also making
>death threats and accusations of criminal violations against several people
>who have recently disagreed with you, trying to track down our
>physical locations, and otherwise doing your best to scare the
>shit out of net users with your digital stalking.
I also had mail from Detweiler, claiming that PGN (editor of the RISKS
digest) had asked him to make sure that I was a real individual, and
not a sinister shadowy pseudonymous figure. Because we can't have
pseudonymous people posting to RISKS, can we? He wanted an address,
name, telephone number, and so on.
To me it seemed about as fishy as a bucket of herring, so I Cc:ed PGN
on my reply. Sure enough, the whole suggestion was Detweiler's own
invention.
My reply, incidentally, suggested that if he wanted the information,
"whois mathew" would have done the job trivially. I also offered him
a GIF and pointed out that we have a videophone in one of our offices.
mathew
--
/X-Attribution:/h:j -- just say no to SuperCite
Graham Toal
:My reply, incidentally, suggested that if he wanted the information,
:"whois mathew" would have done the job trivially. I also offered him
:a GIF and pointed out that we have a videophone in one of our offices.
How about a gif of your birth certificate, heh heh heh ;-)
G
L. Todd Masco
>
>THE INTERNET OUTLET
Wow. BIFF's back! And his brother, the IRON EMU, seems to have helped him
write this.
--
Todd Masco | "life without caution/ the only worth living
cac...@clinton.com, DoD #269 | love for a man/ love for a woman
SysAdmin, Clinton Group, Inc. | love for the facts/ protectless" - A Rich
Pete Bergstrom
Detweiler forgot the
"UNaltered DISSEMINATION of this VALUable INFOrmation is HIGHly
encouraged."
:)
--
--
Lyle Wiscarson
: In article <CH6Cn...@Colorado.EDU> be...@tigger.cs.colorado.edu (Bear Giles) writes:
: >[Cross-posted to alt.wired since this seems a good topic for a future
: >issue]
: >In article <CH5C3...@khijol.yggdrasil.com> e...@khijol.yggdrasil.com (Ed Carp) writes:
: >>The Executioner (an1...@anon.penet.fi) wrote:
: >>: ATTENTION ALL INTERNET PERSONNEL
: >Overall, I would say this is a *very* ominous development.
:
: Am I missing something? I thought it was a joke.
So did I. . .
--
----------------------
An opinion saved is boring. And these are mine, all mine!
Lyle Wiscarson, ly...@plaza.ds.adp.com
Wes Morgan
Various people said:
>: >>The Executioner (an1...@anon.penet.fi) wrote:
>: >>: ATTENTION ALL INTERNET PERSONNEL
>: >Overall, I would say this is a *very* ominous development.
>:
>: Am I missing something? I thought it was a joke.
>:
>So did I. . .
The problem is not that this is a joke. The problem is (or will be)
that people of influence will not be able to discern between jokes
and serious statements. I can see some bureaucrat, right now, asking
their resident computer guru, "who are these CRYPTOANARCHISTS? What
can we do to control them? This seems like a real problem."
Blech. Feh. Ecch.
Systems administrators should stay out of the policy enforcement busi-
ness, but one of our most important behind-the-scenes jobs will be the
education of our superiors in separating the online wheat from the on-
line chaff.
--Wes
--
Wes Morgan ----- University of Kentucky ----- mor...@engr.uky.edu
Mailing list for AT&T StarServer E/S admins - starserve...@engr.uky.edu
GCS/E/MU d--- -p+ c++ l+ m* s++/++ !g w+ t+ r
Mr S J Liddicott
I think the capital letters where to make that posting totally
dissimilar to all his other "real" postings, so he wouldn't give
anything away (same spelling mistakes etc) as to who he really was.
--
*----------*-------------------------------------------------------------*
| Sam Jam|"Never underestimate the importance of a cheap laugh"- |
| Liddicott| ph...@csv.warwick.ac.uk Plucky Duck TTA |
*---For ScoobyDoo episodes mail with "hoi! list scooby" as subject line--*
Robert Sheaffer
>>The Executioner (an1...@anon.penet.fi) wrote:
>>: ATTENTION ALL INTERNET PERSONNEL
>>
>>: sz...@netcom.com
>>
>>: HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS A CRYPTOANARCHIST CYBERSPACE INFILTRATION SITE
>>: TO A 93.67% DEGREE CERTAINTY VIA PSEUDOSPOOFING DETECTION SOFTWARE.
>
>know that "The Executioner (an1...@anon.penet.fi)" is a emotional
>child hiding behind a pseudonym and deserves absolutely no respect
>(except for the chutpaz to denouce a "pseudospoofer" from an
>anonymous account!), but many people would miss these nuances.
>
>I dunno. Perhaps he's trying to be subtle and illustrate the
>problems he describes of szabo.... If so, he obviously doesn't
>realize the necessary side-effects of this approach.
Huh? I kind of concluded that szabo himself must have posted this little
joke to attempt to enhance his net.reputation. Otherwise, face it, *who*
would care?
--
Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - shea...@netcom.com
Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!
"Envy is the cause of political division."
- Democritus, 460-370 BC.
(Fr. 295, ed. Diels, II, 195.)
Clay Shirky
>I think the capital letters where to make that posting totally
>dissimilar to all his other "real" postings, so he wouldn't give
>anything away (same spelling mistakes etc) as to who he really was.
This makes me wonder if there's a way to configure a kill file to kill
everything posted in all caps?
--
Clay Shirky shi...@panix.com
If you don't know where you're going, you will probably end up somewhere else.
-Laurence Peter, _The Peter Principle_
Olaf Titz
> NO! When posting RANTS like THIS, you're supposed TO capitalize
> RANDOM WORDS and phrases, not almost ALL OF them!
NOT to FORGET that you HAVE to ADD the thing about UN-altered
REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this IMPORTANT INFORMATION.
note RE-directed FOLLOWUPS.
--
olaf titz o ol...@bigred.ka.sub.org praetorius@irc
comp.sc.student _>\ _ s_t...@ira.uka.de LINUX - the choice
karlsruhe germany (_)<(_) uk...@dkauni2.bitnet of a GNU generation
what good is a photograph of you? everytime i look at it it makes me feel blue
Jason Burrell
AN>
AN> THE INTERNET OUTLET
There's an interesting one. Where do they get these idiots?
AN>
AN> sz...@netcom.com
AN>
Funny.. The story I heard is that you were giving various death threats
to "Internet Personnel." And netcom.com is the site, szabo is the user
at that site... <grin>
AN> HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS A CRYPTOANARCHIST CYBERSPACE INFILTRATION
AN> SITE TO A 93.67% DEGREE CERTAINTY VIA PSEUDOSPOOFING DETECTION
AN> SOFTWARE.
AN>
We're just getting more and more advanced, now aren't we? Psuedospoofing
detection software? There's a new one. 93.67%, eh?
AN> MAIL, POSTS, AND OTHER EMANATIONS FROM THIS OUTLET ARE CONSIDERED
AN> LIKELY TO BE HIGHLY SUBVERSIVE AND DANGEROUS CRYPTOANARCHIST
AN> DISINFORMATION AND PROPAGANDA FROM ONE OR MORE CRYPTOANARCHIST
AN> CO-CONSPIRATORS. MULTIPLE SENSITIVE INTERNET MAILING LISTS, FAQS,
AN> AND FORUMS HAVE BEEN CONTAMINATED.
Very interesting. When you decide to cease polluting cyberspace with
your wastes of bandwidth.....
AN> INFORMATION ORIGINATING FROM THIS OUTLET IN THE FOLLOWING AREAS
AN> IS PARTICULARLY SUSPECT:
AN>
Lets see this...
AN> [MORE Y/n/c]
AN>
AN> - PROMOTION OF PSEUDOANONYMITY AND THE COLLECTION OF MULTIPLE
AN> FAKE CYBERSPACE IDENTITIES (MISTATED AS `PURE ANONYMITY')
I suppose thats why you're posting this through an anonymous server in
Finland, correct?
AN> - PROMOTION OF UNTRACEABLE `BLACK' CASH AND RELATED CRYPTOGRAPHIC
AN> TECHNIQUES (PARTICULARLY CHAUMIAN)
AN> - FALSE REFERENCES AND DISINFORMATION ON THE ACTUAL
AN> `CRYPTOANARCHIST' AGENDA - PROMOTION OF THE `COLLAPSE OF
AN> GOVERNMENTS' - SUBTLE ANTI-DEMOCRACY GOALS AND ANTI-DEMOCRATIC
AN> SENTIMENTS - PROMOTION OF DISINFORMATION, PROPAGANDA, AND
AN> DECEPTION E.G. [CIN THE MEDIA - PROMOTION OF TAX EVASION
I don't know which is worse. Idiots like you, or people actually
believing people like you. There's something called free speech in this
country. I would suggest you read the Constitution of the United States.
AN> - PROMOTION OF CRIMINAL EVASION OF IDENTITIFICATION MEASURES FOR
AN> E.G. BLACK MARKETEERING
AN> - ELEVATING AND PERPETUATING SUBVERSIONS OF IDENTITY E.G.
AN> PSEUDOSPOOFING AND PSEUDOPOOLS AS `LIBERATING FLUIDITY OF
AN> IDENTITY' ON THE INTERNET
Whoa, thats creative.
AN> - PROMOTION OF ABUSE OF INFORMATION THROUGH E.G. LEAKS, BURGLARY,
AN> OR ESPIONAGE - FALSE DETAILS ON PERSONAL IDENTITY AND
AN> CORROBORATION OF THE EXISTENCE OF OTHER IDENTITIES
AN> - INFILTRATION, PROVOCATION, AND SABOTAGE OF MAILING LIST
AN> DISCUSSIONS OUTSIDE OF CHARTERS INTO THE `CRYPTOANARCHIST' AGENDA
AN> - PROMOTION OF OTHER FAKE IDENTITIES
Ah, yet another creative insight from an12070.
AN> - PUBLIC AND PRIVATE ATTACKS ON REAL IDENTITIES EMPLOYING
AN> COUNTERMEASURES AGAINST THE CRYPTOANARCHIST MOVEMENT
AN> - MANIPULATION AND TERRORISM IN PRIVATE MAIL
AN> - COLLECTION OF SENSITIVE PRIVATE INFORMATION AND MAIL FROM
AN> [MORE Y/n/c]
AN>
AN> COMMUNICATING `OUTSIDE' INDIVIDUALS
AN>
AN> INTERNET INDIVIDUALS AND ORGANIZATIONS ARE ADVISED TO EXAMINE AND
AN> PURGE ARCHIVES AND RECORDS OF ALL INFORMATION ORIGINATING FROM
AN> THIS OUTLET AS CRYPTOANARCHIST DISINFORMATION. ITEMS RECOVERED
AN> FROM THIS OUTLET SHOULD BE REPOSTED FOR PUBLIC EXPOSURE.
AN>
AN> QUESTIONS REGARDING THIS ADVISORY ALERT CAN BE ADDRESSED TO
Using big words today, aren't we?
AN>
AN> cyphe...@toad.com
AN>
AN> BACKGROUND INFORMATION ON THE CRYPTOANARCHIST MOVEMENT IS
AN> AVAILABLE IN RISKS 15.25, 15.27, AND 15.28X, FTP CRVAX.SRI.COM
AN> DIRECTORY /RISKS:
AN>
AN> ADDITIONAL BULLETINS WILL BE ISSUED AS EVENTS WARRANT.
AN> ------------------------------------------------------------------
AN> ------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to
AN> he...@anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to
AN> this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be
AN> allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any
AN> problems, inappropriate use etc. to ad...@anon.penet.fi.
I think we all tend to disbelieve a post written in all caps, routed
through an anonymous server, cross posted to god knows how many groups,
with B.S. of all forms contained in it.
--
Jason_...@fcircus.sat.tx.us
Sysop of South Texas Communications Research Facility. (210)681-3404
10PM-4:30PM daily.
PGP public key available upon request.
D. Anton Sherwood
In article <071303Z...@anon.penet.fi> an1...@anon.penet.fi writes:
>- FALSE REFERENCES AND DISINFORMATION ON THE ACTUAL `CRYPTOANARCHIST' AGENDA
>- PROMOTION OF THE `COLLAPSE OF GOVERNMENTS'
>- SUBTLE ANTI-DEMOCRACY GOALS AND ANTI-DEMOCRATIC SENTIMENTS
>- PROMOTION OF DISINFORMATION, PROPAGANDA, AND DECEPTION E.G. IN THE MEDIA
>- PROMOTION OF TAX EVASION
>- PROMOTION OF CRIMINAL EVASION OF IDENTITIFICATION MEASURES FOR E.G.
>BLACK MARKETEERING
I don't understand. Are you saying these last five are *not* among
the crypto-anarchist agenda?
--
Anton Sherwood *\\* +1 415 267 0685 *\\* DAS...@netcom.com
Bureau of Making Sure You Get Enough Sleep and Eat Your Vegetables
Disclaimer: The above is likely to refer to anecdotal evidence.
Timothy C. May
: I wonder why this is targeted at Szabo rather than TCMay.
: In article <071303Z...@anon.penet.fi> an1...@anon.penet.fi writes:
: >- FALSE REFERENCES AND DISINFORMATION ON THE ACTUAL `CRYPTOANARCHIST' AGENDA
: >- PROMOTION OF THE `COLLAPSE OF GOVERNMENTS'
: >- SUBTLE ANTI-DEMOCRACY GOALS AND ANTI-DEMOCRATIC SENTIMENTS
: >- PROMOTION OF DISINFORMATION, PROPAGANDA, AND DECEPTION E.G. IN THE MEDIA
: >- PROMOTION OF TAX EVASION
: >- PROMOTION OF CRIMINAL EVASION OF IDENTITIFICATION MEASURES FOR E.G.
: >BLACK MARKETEERING
: I don't understand. Are you saying these last five are *not* among
: the crypto-anarchist agenda?
Because Detweiler is convinced that Nick Szabo is a "Tentacle" of the
"Medusa" (me, others). I gave up long ago trying to convice Larry
Detweiler (alias an12070, The Executioner, S. Boxx, The Pervert, The
Psychopunk, and apparently such pseudonyms) that I am a real person,
that Nick Szabo is a real person not the same as me, and that several
other "Tentacles" and "Snakes" are easily verified to be real people
with real lives.
Poor deluded Larry takes any such efforts to resolve his delusion as
_further proof_ of the Grand Conspiracy to drive him crazier than he
already is.
What a strange world the Net is becoming.
--Tim May, a Real Person
--
..........................................................................
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tc...@netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments.
Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available.
Note: I put time and money into writing this posting. I hope you enjoy it.
D. Anton Sherwood
>D. Anton Sherwood (das...@netcom.com) wrote:
>: I wonder why this is targeted at Szabo rather than TCMay.
>
>"Medusa" (me, others). I gave up long ago trying to convice Larry
>that Nick Szabo is a real person not the same as me, and that several
>other "Tentacles" and "Snakes" are easily verified to be real people
>with real lives.
Ah. I could say that I've seen Nick and Tim in the same room, but
that would prove I'm just another pseudonym. (We're all at Netcom,
after all.) So why did I ask the question above? That just shows
how subtle Tim is. (I wish I were that subtle.)
Is a roster of the Pseudopods publicly available? ;)
Brett Person
Gee. Can't this guy afford to by some lower case keys? :-)
He should also consider taking a few computer science courses so he could
use proper terminology.
--
Brett Person
North Dakota State University
per...@plains.nodak.edu || per...@plains.bitnet
L. Detweiler
: "Medusa" (me, others). I gave up long ago trying to convice Larry
: Detweiler (alias an12070, The Executioner, S. Boxx, The Pervert, The
: Psychopunk, and apparently such pseudonyms) that I am a real person,
: that Nick Szabo is a real person not the same as me, and that several
: other "Tentacles" and "Snakes" are easily verified to be real people
: with real lives.
That's interesting. Perhaps you would like to enumerate these attempts. Here
are a few I can think of off the top of my head.
I asked J.Gilmore to send me his phone number to ask him about pseudospoofing
by Cypherpunk leaders and he told me that he only gave out his phone number
to his friends. I ask other cypherpunks for phone numbers and they call
it an `invasion of their privacy'. I asked Szabo about his claims in
RISKS and he exploded that I was `digitally stalking him.' I got a message
from a Geof Dale (roommate of a college friend) who said generally he
could assert that every cypherpunk I had ever wondered about being a
pseudonym was a `true name' but refuses to give me his phone number to so I
can ask specific questions. Nick Szabo has also resisted simple requests of
mine to verify that `Nick Szabo' is not a pseudonym.
I also asked you, a long time ago Mr. May, to state a simple sentence to me in
the form `I have never posted under the name J.Dinkelacker'. You refused
to do so. You did say `The assertion that I am J. Dinkelacker is too bizarre
to believe.' Ha, ha, and that time I asked you what sites you have ever posted
from, and your personal knowledge of multiple sites, you emailed my postmaster
and said that I was `harassing' you. Oh, and that contained another reference
to my `violent threats'. You seem to be quite sensitive to quotations like
`death is the ultimate form of censorship.' Hee, hee.
The truth is that every attempt I have made to verify certain identities
has failed and led only to more grisly conclusions, such that Cypherpunks have
gone to the length of registering NIC domains and buying out-of-state phone
numbers. Do not tell me this is impossible! A businessman friend of mine
has a local phone number in NY that forwards to Denver! It seems to me
cypherpunks could use this very readily! (My kingdom goes to anyone who
can provide me with the ability to trace the ultimate destination of
phone calls in this way, and help uncover the amazing extent of the
Cryptoanarchist conspiracy! volunteers desperately needed!)
As for what the paranoid ranter and conspiracy theorist an12070 thinks,
who gives a damn? I'm always amazed at top cypherpunks, supposedly interested
in anonymity, attempting to equate me with this email address.
The cypherpunks have made an art, science, and religion of deceiving others
on the Internet and in the media. I do not consider the leaders respectable.
If they were, they would have long ago answered my honest questions in
a straightforward manner.
And T.C.May is definitely the classic cryptoanarchist! Nice of you to
keep holding onto your infamous signature (now widely discredited)
promoting tax evasion, black marketeering, and the overthrow of
governments.
: Poor deluded Larry takes any such efforts to resolve his delusion as
: _further proof_ of the Grand Conspiracy to drive him crazier than he
: already is.
Yes, I am quite insane.
: What a strange world the Net is becoming.
No thanks to you.
: --Tim May, a Real Person
Owner of many tentacles. Please list all the sites you have ever posted
from, Mr. May. Ooops, that would be an Orwellian Invasion of your privacy.
A McCarthyist Inquisition. Hee, hee. You cryptoanarchists are so silly. I
am having great fun using your techniques of cyberspatial warfare and
against yourselves. I will not relent until top leadership issues unequivocal
statements on your involvement and knowledge of pseudospoofing. Lies like
that by E.Hughes in RISKS, `I have never posted under any other name than
E.Hughes' obviously do not count, although they may fool some people.
I do thank you, Mr. May, for your posting directly on this topic after my
attempts to date have failed. Perhaps you would like to invite your cohorts
on the cypherpunks list including E.Hughes and J.Gilmore to start a
cyberspatial attack campaign on this thread the way you infiltrated RISKS
15.27 and 15.28x! I await the fireworks!
The most serious problems with the Cypherpunks may involve deception of
the media. I'm trying to figure this out as we speak. These lies are very
difficult to untangle! volunteers welcome!
oh, BTW Mr. May, when did you decide my first name was Larry and not Lance?
You called me Lance for 10 months or so on the cypherpunks list.
hee, hee. I would give so much to be at the next CA Clique Conspiracy
meeting in a week or two, to see how the leaders masterfully evade all
charges of misbehavior.
--
L. Detweiler
: that would prove I'm just another pseudonym. (We're all at Netcom,
: after all.) So why did I ask the question above? That just shows
: how subtle Tim is. (I wish I were that subtle.)
Y'know, after all this hullaballo I still have no idea what Szabo does
for a living. Maybe he would like to post information about where he
works. Just general information that can be verified, nothing that would
invade his privacy. Ooops, I guess all cryptoanarchists believe that any
inquiry into identity (even those who claim to have one) is an `invasion
of their privacy'. Well, we can't get very far in that case. I will just
have to stick `sz...@netcom.com' into my `untrusted pseudonym' file.
hee, hee. Sort of a like a McCarthyist Witchhunt Inquisition list. Those
darn Cryptoanarchists.
My experience with Szabo started only after I read neat mail by Szabo
stating how he had mastered the art of surreptitious posting from multiple
sites. Mr. Szabo, could you please elaborate on your techniques? I had to
guess at what you were accomplishing in RISKS 15.28x (or 15.27, hard to
remember) because you are certainly not voluntarily going to reveal this
information, eh? that's the name of the game with pseudospoofing. Also,
you blew up when I followed up on your claim in 15.27 that many cypherpunks
had attempted to help me verify their identities. `Which ones?' I asked.
`What have they done for me?' You got really upset, remember, and threatened
to stop posting from the name sz...@netcom.com entirely! I thought this
highly suspicious, but perhaps you can explain it all.
Some of Mr.Szabo's comments and those by another tentacle I have discovered
suggest they are actually running sophisticate software to maintain their
arsenals of tentacles. This is my Holy Grail, to get information on that!
I suspect it was written by E.Hughes. He hasn't said a word on it. Oh, many,
many things for me to wonder about. Please enlighten me. I am just another
scientist in search of the truth, by iteratively refining his sense of what
is not.
Sooner or later I will have to post an analysis of cryptoanarchist
disinformation as posted by either Szabo or May (some of the very best
purveyors, IMHO).
--
Perry E. Metzger
>In article <CH6Cn...@Colorado.EDU> be...@tigger.cs.colorado.edu (Bear Giles) writes:
>>>The Executioner (an1...@anon.penet.fi) wrote:
>>>: ATTENTION ALL INTERNET PERSONNEL
>>>
>>>: sz...@netcom.com
>>>
>>>: HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS A CRYPTOANARCHIST CYBERSPACE INFILTRATION SITE
>>>: TO A 93.67% DEGREE CERTAINTY VIA PSEUDOSPOOFING DETECTION SOFTWARE.
>>
>>Overall, I would say this is a *very* ominous development. *We*
>>know that "The Executioner (an1...@anon.penet.fi)" is a emotional
>>child hiding behind a pseudonym and deserves absolutely no respect
>>(except for the chutpaz to denouce a "pseudospoofer" from an
>>anonymous account!), but many people would miss these nuances.
>>
>>I dunno. Perhaps he's trying to be subtle and illustrate the
>>problems he describes of szabo.... If so, he obviously doesn't
>>realize the necessary side-effects of this approach.
>Huh? I kind of concluded that szabo himself must have posted this little
>joke to attempt to enhance his net.reputation. Otherwise, face it, *who*
>would care?
The message was posted by "L. Detweiler", who also posts as an12070 as
"S. Boxx", "The Executioner", and a bunch of other aliases. He's a
paranoid psychotic who has become convinced that there is a plot
against him being perpetrated by Szabo, Eric Hughes, Tim May, John
Gilmore, and a bunch of other people of varying degrees of fame. He's
literally insane -- it isn't just hyperbole.
--
Perry Metzger pmet...@lehman.com
--
"I can't go out and save every undercapitalized entrepreneur in America."
-- Hillary Clinton, when asked about the impact of her health care
"plan" on small business (Wall Street Journal, 9/24/93, pg A10, col. 3)
David Sternlight
Perry E. Metzger <pmet...@lehman.com> wrote (about L. Detweiler):
>He's
>literally insane -- it isn't just hyperbole.
The pot calling the kettle black?
David
--
David Sternlight When the mouse laughs at the cat,
there is a hole nearby.--Nigerian Proverb
Eli Brandt
>As for what the paranoid ranter and conspiracy theorist an12070 thinks,
>who gives a damn? I'm always amazed at top cypherpunks, supposedly interested
>in anonymity, attempting to equate me with this email address.
Oh, come off it. Your rants under various names (including your own)
are very similar: in tone and style, in topic, in their universal
fixation on PSEUDOSPOOFING, "top cypherpunks", and "cypherpunk
leaders", in time of night sent to the list, in 0 of
punctuation. Then we have an12070 quoting from private mail to you --
you tried to weasel by saying you'd "communicated with your
colleague", whom you're now calling a "paranoid ranter". And just
today you made a blatant foul-up in your rant on drug conspiracies:
> Message-Id: <931204151...@anon.penet.fi>
> To: cyphe...@toad.com
> From: an1...@anon.penet.fi (Pablo Escobar)
> puts the life of everyone in the group at deadly dangerous risk. He
> said something very bizarre to me, `so Lance, just HOW ARE YOU FEELING
> TODAY?' The strange tone was entirely uncharacteristic of him, and I
Oops. I find it ironic that for all your rants about PSEUDOSPOOFING,
your practices are the most blatant and long-running example I have
ever encountered. I would not count your an12070 account as more
than one identity, except that you constantly change the name and
use different ones to contradict others:
"The Executioner" <an1...@anon.penet.fi>, says:
> I thought that the infamous L. Detweiler had stopped his posting, but it
> appears that he is back, and more neurotic than ever.
but "S. Boxx" <an1...@anon.penet.fi> says:
> BTW, many thanks to L.Detweiler for his lone help in helping me break a
> corrupt conspiracy and massive cyberspatial hoax.
Enough.
>Timothy C. May (tc...@netcom.com) wrote:
>
>: "Medusa" (me, others). I gave up long ago trying to convice Larry
>: Detweiler (alias an12070, The Executioner, S. Boxx, The Pervert, The
>: Psychopunk, and apparently such pseudonyms) that I am a real person,
>That's interesting. Perhaps you would like to enumerate these attempts.
You may recall that your very first paranoid claim was that Tim May
and Jamie Dinkelacker were the same person. You were given the phone
numbers of both -- this was before people became nervous about giving
you any personal information. Did you ever attempt a reality check?
>If they were, they would have long ago answered my honest questions in
>a straightforward manner.
Oh, you mean like:
>that by E.Hughes in RISKS, `I have never posted under any other name than
>E.Hughes' obviously do not count, although they may fool some people.
It's not an answer because he didn't ADMIT to his heinous CRIMES, I
guess. Rot in place, will you?
>ld23...@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU
Eli ebr...@jarthur.claremont.edu
PGP 2 key by finger or e-mail
"I have noticed an interesting overlap between radical libertarians, crypto-
anarchists, psychopunks, and people who promote sodomy." -- L. Detweiler
Bear Giles
>
>In article <sheafferC...@netcom.com> shea...@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>
>>In article <CH6Cn...@Colorado.EDU> be...@tigger.cs.colorado.edu (Bear Giles) writes:
>>>I dunno. Perhaps he's trying to be subtle and illustrate the
>>>problems he describes of szabo.... If so, he obviously doesn't
>>>realize the necessary side-effects of this approach.
>
>>Huh? I kind of concluded that szabo himself must have posted this little
>>joke to attempt to enhance his net.reputation. Otherwise, face it, *who*
>>would care?
A e-Zen master. This entire situations reminds me tremendously of
a koan. Did person X post an article which makes them look like an
idiot? Did person Y post an article to make X look like an idiot?
Did person Z post an article that could be mistaken for one of the
cases above? Who is benefited by this article? Who is harmed?
Compared to this, the Kennedy assassination is a piece of cake. :-)
>He's a
>paranoid psychotic who has become convinced that there is a plot
>against him being perpetrated by [many people]. He's
>literally insane -- it isn't just hyperbole.
Unless you're a clinical psychologist, this statement is a wee
bit strong. You should say "He appears to be a paranoid psychotic..."
Or even "This collection of posts appear to be from a ..."
Seriously, anyone who's been on the Net for a while knows there
are some people out there who think very differently than the rest
of us. At the same time, you have to admit that if someone wanted
to discredit another person, one very good mechanism is producing
a similar style from an anonymous posting site, but with subtle
twists to make you wonder about the anonymous (and presumably,
corresponding known) poster.
The only thing *I* can say with certainty is that this whole
mess is providing good evidence that "anonymonity" and "political
speech" are mutually exclusive. If you want to stand on a soapbox,
you *must* identify yourself. In the meanwhile, I'm seriously
considering a global killfile entry for the anonymous posting
sites. That won't prevent pseudonyms from other sites, but it
will be a start.
--
Bear Giles
be...@cs.colorado.edu/fsl.noaa.gov
Tim Pierce
The Executioner <an1...@anon.penet.fi> wrote:
>QUESTIONS REGARDING THIS ADVISORY ALERT
Why don't teenagers ever use lowercase letters?
--
____ Tim Pierce / Richard got married to a figure skater /
\ / twpi...@unix.amherst.edu / and he bought her a dishwasher and a
\/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / coffee perkulator.
L. Detweiler
: In article <PMETZGER.9...@snark.lehman.com>,
: Perry E. Metzger <pmet...@lehman.com> wrote (about L. Detweiler):
: >He's
: >literally insane -- it isn't just hyperbole.
: The pot calling the kettle black?
hee, hee, once P.Metzger complained in his typical searing flame fashion
on the cpunk list that the word `cypherpunk' was just too darn subversive
sounding. Mr. Metzger is another classic cryptoanarchist. Hey Perry, could
you send me another mailbomb for tweaking your nose?
let the record show I am in no way agreeing with S.Sternlight <g>
people interested in civilizing cyberspace and repressing the cryptoanarchist
scum should send `subscribe cypherwonks' to majo...@lists.eunet.fi.
Electronic Democracy is on it's way!
--
L. Detweiler
: No, Mr.
: Detweiler, I'm not "pseudospoofing",
How do you explain your statements I analyzed in RISKS 15.27, where you
posted to cypherpunks promoting your sophisticated pseudospoofing techniques?
Multiple posting sites, countermeasures and contempt for `opponents' who
attempt to determine whether your tentacles are who they claim to be.
Frankly, I think you are a baldfaced liar. Are you intellectually challenged
or am I going to have to go root up all the archives to prove it?
You cryptoanarchists are so arrogant. it will be your downfall.
``I have never communicated under any other name than E.Hughes.' (E.Hughes,
RISKS 15.28x)
``You can have your private conspiracy xor your public credibility. Soon,
you will have neither.''
--
Jim Gillogly
L. Detweiler <ld23...@casco.lance.colostate.edu> wrote:
>You called me Lance for 10 months or so on the cypherpunks list.
Given that somebody using your account in '91 posted an article to sci.crypt
about factoring under the name "Lawrence Detweiler", I suppose that either
Larry or Lance might be a reasonable guess... if perhaps overly familiar.
What nickname do you prefer, if any?
Does this make me a pseudopod of the ubiquitous anonymous organism? Will
Suicide Squid come out of retirement to counter this new evil? Is L.
Detweiler the Colo State equivalent of C-MU's Harry Q. Bovick? The world
wonders...
--
Jim Gillogly
Hevensday, 15 Foreyule S.R. 1993, 21:58
L. Detweiler
verify that J.Dinkelacker was a real person, claiming that I didn't call
either him or T.C.May. I await to hear about how he determined this. Are
you an `insider', Mr. Brandt? It certainly appears so.
Mr. Brandt definitely has knowledge of pseudospoofing by cypherpunks. If anyone
would like to entertain themselves by determining whether he is a tentacle,
a Medusa Sister, or Medusa herself, send him email. Speaking from experience
built up over many weeks on `cyberspatial exorcisms', I would be willing to
wager cash that you will not be able to successfully associate him with an
actual human being.
My own sense is that the cryptoanarchists are scared white of this thread.
They seem to be backing down. No new claims of my insanity! No new unverifiable
claims about identity! Not even a terse, angry statement from E.Hughes for
me calling him a liar about his claims of identity! No more righteous
indignation from E.Brandt or N.Szabo! They are either slinking back into
their holes, thinking that this has escalated beyond what they can handle,
or they are preparing for a major strike.
Anyway, here is some more fuel for the fire. Mr. Dinkelacker sent me
evasive mail when I asked him some questions in mid October. I became
suspicious when it appeared that T.C.May was using this posting site as
a tentacle in pretending that he was gracious to newbies with a staged
help request on a Bamford reference. Also, J.Dinkelacker made
many strange comments like `Its such a feeling of raw power over lesser
intelligences' to the cypherpunks list that made me wonder what he was
talking about (he was, of course, referring to the contemptuous and arrogant
belief that he had fooled me into thinking he was real.) Later, he seemed
to be upset by my essay, `The Joy of Pseudospoofing'. He sent me this
amusing letter in response:
===cut=here===
From ja...@netcom.com Mon Oct 25 02:15:14 1993
Return-Path: <ja...@netcom.com>
Received: from netcom.netcom.com by longs.lance.colostate.edu (5.65/lance.1.5)
id AA10149; Mon, 25 Oct 93 02:15:13 -0600
Received: from netcom4.netcom.com by netcom.netcom.com (5.65/SMI-4.1/Netcom)
id AA29913; Mon, 25 Oct 93 01:15:50 -0700
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 01:15:50 -0700
Message-Id: <931025081...@netcom.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Eudora
To: "L. Detweiler" <ld23...@longs.lance.colostate.edu>
From: ja...@netcom.com (Jamie Dinkelacker)
Subject: Thanks for the exposure
Still posting my phone number, asshole? Are you really trying to pick a
fight? Do you truly want to see how I can squash a bug like thee? Better
start looking over your shoulder.
Don't forget, gutless wonder, I CONTROL YOU.
You will never forget me. You can't touch a keyboard without thinking of
me. I control you. And always will.
You no longer have any independent thought.
I lead my life of wonder; filled with friends and play. You are
insignificant, and don't cross my mind until someone tells me of your
posts. But you have no choice but to sit and think of me. I control you.
Everytime you see the word "cypherpunks" you'll know I control you. And I
always will. Everytime you hear a modem or see an ethernet cable, you'll
know I control you.
Soon, you'll be able to think of nothing but me, and then the control will
be complete.
Get a life, asshole.
--
Timothy C. May
: Mr. Brandt says that I failed to take appropriate measures in attempting to
: verify that J.Dinkelacker was a real person, claiming that I didn't call
: either him or T.C.May. I await to hear about how he determined this. Are
: you an `insider', Mr. Brandt? It certainly appears so.
My phone number has been listed prominentely in my "infamous" sig for
the past couple of years. I haven't gotten any calls from Detweiler,
to my knowledge, just some strange hang-ups in the middle of the
night. I know he called Jamie Dinkelacker, who he claimed was a
"tentacle" or "snake" of me, so one presumes he'd like to hear my
voice, too. (Not to belabor the obvious, but many people have met all
off the folks Detweiler claims are Snakes of the Medusa. At
conference, technical gatherings, the Hackers Conference, and so on.)
I've never sent Detweiler any e-mail except under my own name, and
using my standard e-mail address. Whoever is sending him e-mail under
what he thinks of as "Tentacles" addresses, it ain't me. I gave up
communicating with him a couple of months back
I'm talking about mail sent directly to him, not my very occasional use
of anonymous remailers on specific mailing lists....he will no doubt
seize upon this as "proof" of some sort. Far from it, as I've
acknowledged on the mailing lists that it was I who was demonstrating
some property of remailers. And S. Boxx = The Excecutioner = The
Pervert = The Zen Master = L. Dewtweiler is hardly in a postion to
take such an unctuous stand on use of remailers and pseudonyms.
: My own sense is that the cryptoanarchists are scared white of this thread.
: They seem to be backing down. No new claims of my insanity! No new unverifiable
: claims about identity! Not even a terse, angry statement from E.Hughes for
Well, you're apparently pretty close to being insane, or at least
you've gotten carried away by you fantasies. Is this a public enough
statement for you? Most of us don't routinely answer your paranoid
rants about Satan Spawn, how cryptograhy causes sodomy, and how our
blood will soon be spilled becuase we realize what a waste of time it
is.
(I'm sorry to waster the Net's bandwidth here with this response.)
: Anyway, here is some more fuel for the fire. Mr. Dinkelacker sent me
: evasive mail when I asked him some questions in mid October. I became
: suspicious when it appeared that T.C.May was using this posting site as
: a tentacle in pretending that he was gracious to newbies with a staged
: help request on a Bamford reference. Also, J.Dinkelacker made
...
Nonsense. I'm not "Jamie Dinkelacker" or "Hal Finney" or "Eli Brandt"
or "Nick Szabo" or any of the other dozen or so folks Detweiler
routinely rants about me being.
Argghh! What more can I say to this raving lunatic?
--Tim May
Stanton McCandlish
--
Stanton McCandlish me...@eff.org 1:109/1103 EFF Online Activist & SysOp
O P E N P L A T F O R M C R Y P T O P O L I C Y O N L I N E R I G H T S
N E T W O R K I N G V I R T U A L C U L T U R E
I N F O : M E M B E R S H I P @ E F F . O R G
Will Parker
ld23...@traver.lance.colostate.edu (L. Detweiler) wrote:
> David Sternlight (strn...@netcom.com) wrote:
> : In article <PMETZGER.9...@snark.lehman.com>,
> : Perry E. Metzger <pmet...@lehman.com> wrote (about L. Detweiler):
>
> (random flames deleted)
All I can say about this mess is that it's getting to be as boring as our
recent spate of "GET.RICH.QUICK" posts.
Howzabout a new newsgroup:
alt.cryptoanarchist.infiltrate.infiltrate.infiltrate?
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
\ \ "Our country reeks of trees!
/ will...@halcyon.com / Our yaks are really large...
\ \ and they smell like rottingbeefcarcasses!"
/ / - Anthem of The Royal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Will Parker
ld23...@traver.lance.colostate.edu (L. Detweiler) wrote:
> people interested in civilizing cyberspace and repressing the cryptoanarchist
> scum should send `subscribe cypherwonks' to majo...@lists.eunet.fi.
> Electronic Democracy is on it's way!
P.S. I DID subscribe to cypherwonks, but this "infiltration" thread is
rapidly rendering it useless. I'll be unsubscribing as soon as my mail
server comes back from the dead.
Perry E. Metzger
In article <Dec04.105...@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> ld23...@casco.lance.colostate.edu (L. Detweiler) writes:
>Timothy C. May (tc...@netcom.com) wrote:
>: "Medusa" (me, others). I gave up long ago trying to convice Larry
>: Detweiler (alias an12070, The Executioner, S. Boxx, The Pervert, The
>: Psychopunk, and apparently such pseudonyms) that I am a real person,
>: that Nick Szabo is a real person not the same as me, and that several
>: other "Tentacles" and "Snakes" are easily verified to be real people
>: with real lives.
>That's interesting. Perhaps you would like to enumerate these attempts. Here
>are a few I can think of off the top of my head.
Mr. Detweiler:
Nick Szabo, who's roomates (housemates, actually) are Geoff(sp?) Dale
and Romana Machado(sp?), lives in Cupertino, California, and may very
well have a listed phone number -- I haven't checked. Tim May lists
his phone number in his .signature file -- he lives in Aptos. Eric
Hughes lives in Berkeley, and also may have a listed phone number. All
of them have been seen at the same place at the same time in public --
for instance, by over 100 people at the Extropy Magazine 5th
Aniversary Party, at Cypherpunks meetings, etc. I can personally
verify that all of them exist and are seperate people. If you don't
want to do some elementary checking around and don't belive me, I can
note that May and Huges were both interviewed by Wired magazine --
who's reporter was at a cypherpunks meeting and doubtless saw both of
them. The reporter in question, who's name escapes me, also wrote the
book "Hackers" and is fairly famous. Tim May is also in some ways
fairly well known, in the sense that he was an early employee of Intel
corporation and appears in corporate filings that likely date back
twenty years.
In any case, Lawrence, which appears to be your real name, the
"Medusa" is you. You have disrupted lots of people's lives -- you've
mailed death threats to dozens of people, "pseudospoofed" as at least
a half dozen aliases using an1...@anon.penet.fi, and wrecked mailing
lists. You've also displayed marked paranoid signs.
I realize that none of this will likely impact you. You are either a
very persistant prankster or psychotic -- I mean the latter literally
and not figurtively. However, other people should be aware of the
situation.
Perry E. Metzger
In article <Dec04.110...@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> ld23...@casco.lance.colostate.edu (L. Detweiler) writes:
>: Ah. I could say that I've seen Nick and Tim in the same room, but
>: that would prove I'm just another pseudonym. (We're all at Netcom,
>: after all.) So why did I ask the question above? That just shows
>: how subtle Tim is. (I wish I were that subtle.)
>Y'know, after all this hullaballo I still have no idea what Szabo does
>for a living. Maybe he would like to post information about where he
>works.
Last I knew he was unemployed. Tim May in case you are interested is
retired -- old Intel filing should mention him. Eric Hughes and Arthur
Abraham have a consulting partnership called Abraham Hughes
(appropriately enough) -- Hughes has published papers and is doubtless
in the citation index, as is Tim May.
>My experience with Szabo started only after I read neat mail by Szabo
>stating how he had mastered the art of surreptitious posting from multiple
>sites.
I will personally verify that I've been seeing mail from Nick back
three years -- as, likely, would all 250 people on the Extropians
mailing list, which he's been a participant on for years.
You can easily verify that I'm real. My phone number at my office is
(212) 464-3374 -- I'm an assistant vice president for Lehman Brothers
in New York, and I'm certainly in corporate filings because of it. I'm
also probably in SEC databases because of private placements I've been
a participant in. I'm on the opposite coast from Tim May, so its easy
for anyone who wants to call Tim and call me and verify that at the
very least we have different voices.
Gary Edstrom
giving him what he wants: ATTENTION
David Criswell
>
>>Timothy C. May (tc...@netcom.com) wrote:
>
>>: "Medusa" (me, others). I gave up long ago trying to convice Larry
>>: Detweiler (alias an12070, The Executioner, S. Boxx, The Pervert, The
>>: Psychopunk, and apparently such pseudonyms) that I am a real person,
>>: that Nick Szabo is a real person not the same as me, and that several
>>: other "Tentacles" and "Snakes" are easily verified to be real people
>>: with real lives.
>
>>That's interesting. Perhaps you would like to enumerate these attempts. Here
>>are a few I can think of off the top of my head.
>
>Mr. Detweiler:
>
>Nick Szabo, who's roomates (housemates, actually) are Geoff(sp?) Dale
>and Romana Machado(sp?), lives in Cupertino, California, and may very
>well have a listed phone number -- I haven't checked.
For what it's worth, there is a Nicholas Szabo listed in the
Cupertino phone book.
> You've also displayed marked paranoid signs.
>
>I realize that none of this will likely impact you. You are either a
>very persistant prankster or psychotic -- I mean the latter literally
>and not figurtively.
Since I've never met any of the above people, I'll beat Mr. Detweiler
to the punch and point out that I've never been seen with them.
Make of that whatever you will.
Dave Criswell
Not speaking for Oracle Corporation
Eli Brandt
In article <Dec06.084...@yuma.acns.colostate.edu>, L. Detweiler <ld23...@LANCE.ColoState.Edu> wrote:
>Mr. Brandt definitely has knowledge of pseudospoofing by
>cypherpunks. If anyone would like to entertain themselves by
>determining whether he is a tentacle, a Medusa Sister, or Medusa
>herself, send him email.
I have no knowledge of "pseudospoofing" by anybody. One might
count the message forged on 4 Dec 93 from longs.lance.colostate.edu
as "sb...@lodestone.nsa.gov", but I don't really think that was
intended to be taken as a real person.
However, if anyone besides Detweiler has doubts about my being a real
person, they're welcome to contact me. Note the "besides",
Lawrence; I don't need any more of your rants in my mailbox. "Get
out your cyanide capsules" indeed. You are unconvincible anyway.
>My own sense is that the cryptoanarchists are scared white of this thread.
>They seem to be backing down. No new claims of my insanity!
Fine, "You're a paranoid loon."
Brent Seidel
: >>>: ATTENTION ALL INTERNET PERSONNEL
: >>>
: >>>: sz...@netcom.com
: >>>
: >>>: HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS A CRYPTOANARCHIST CYBERSPACE INFILTRATION SITE
: >>>: TO A 93.67% DEGREE CERTAINTY VIA PSEUDOSPOOFING DETECTION SOFTWARE.
So Executioner,
How can I start a cryptoanarchist cyberspace infiltration site? I mean, like
is there any special hardware or software that I need to buy? BTW, what is a
cryptoanarchist anyway?
thanks
brent
--
Brent Seidel brent_...@chthone.stat.com
Carpe Empor
Craig Presson
[...]
The only thing *I* can say with certainty is that this whole
mess is providing good evidence that "anonymonity" and "political
speech" are mutually exclusive.
If you want to stand on a soapbox,
you *must* identify yourself.
If you want to be taken seriously, you must have a recognizable
cognomen and a reputation. The difference between masking on the net
and on the physical soapbox is that on the net any idiot can do it.
In the meanwhile, I'm seriously
considering a global killfile entry for the anonymous posting
sites. That won't prevent pseudonyms from other sites, but it
will be a start.
If that helps you get through your newsgroups menu, it's fine; but I
think this will all stabilize. Someday "anonymonity" will not be a new
toy anymore -- _Wired_ will label it Tired, and _Playboy_ and
Letterman will have interviewed Johan Helsingius.
On the cable, 'nyms come and go, talking of Michelangelo.
Shall I mail-bomb Diane Holt? Do I dare to drink a Jolt?
I shall carry a small Colt, and walk upon the Net.
I hear the pseudo-spoofers singing, each to each.
I do not think that they will sing to me.
From "The Love Song of J. Random User"
-- cP
Bear Giles
>In article <CHJKD...@Colorado.EDU> be...@tigger.cs.colorado.edu (Bear Giles) writes:
>[...]
> The only thing *I* can say with certainty is that this whole
> mess is providing good evidence that "anonymonity" and "political
> speech" are mutually exclusive.
>Publius would be surprised.
*sigh* The real bummer is Colorado Springs illustrates why anonymonity
in political speech would be nice. A number of people who have written
letters to the editor defending "gay rights" have been harassed, their
homes and cars vandalized, etc. That tends to suppress open debate, fatal
to a democracy.
But accusations and counteraccusations of "you're a tentacle" stiffle
debate just as much, not only by increasing the "noise" level but
making it unclear if a person stands by his beliefs, or is trying
to parody his opposition.
> If you want to stand on a soapbox,
> you *must* identify yourself.
>If you want to be taken seriously, you must have a recognizable
>cognomen and a reputation. The difference between masking on the net
>and on the physical soapbox is that on the net any idiot can do it.
Not only that, it must be clear you aren't arguing both sides of an
issue. E.g., a person crying "freedom of religion" for his creed
should also be known to *not* be decrying the filthy Zionist bankers.
Such inconsistency sharply reduces the weight most people will give
his words.
A *single* pseudonym would allow this, but not multiple pseudonyms --
the latter could allow one person to control both sides of the
debate, making the "victory" much more convincing as the chief
opponent was slowly won over.
--
Bear Giles
be...@cs.colorado.edu/fsl.noaa.gov
Lvx Fiat
: In article <CHJKD...@Colorado.EDU> be...@tigger.cs.colorado.edu (Bear Giles) writes:
: [...]
: The only thing *I* can say with certainty is that this whole
: mess is providing good evidence that "anonymonity" and "political
: speech" are mutually exclusive.
: Publius would be surprised.
: If you want to stand on a soapbox,
: you *must* identify yourself.
: If you want to be taken seriously, you must have a recognizable
: cognomen and a reputation. The difference between masking on the net
: and on the physical soapbox is that on the net any idiot can do it.
: In the meanwhile, I'm seriously
: considering a global killfile entry for the anonymous posting
: sites. That won't prevent pseudonyms from other sites, but it
: will be a start.
What about those who may spend years building a reputation with an assumed
name, but do not want their views connected with the physical world?
Effectively, these people would be a known presence, yet still anonymous.
: If that helps you get through your newsgroups menu, it's fine; but I
: think this will all stabilize. Someday "anonymonity" will not be a new
: toy anymore -- _Wired_ will label it Tired, and _Playboy_ and
: Letterman will have interviewed Johan Helsingius.
I doubt anonyminity will ever go out of style, as it is not a trend to
begin with.
Lvx
--
/\ * /\ * Who are your leaders?
/--\ /--\ Where are they leading you?
/ \ * * / \ * * What will you find when you get there?
"Autonomous Struggle is the Transport Layer of Illumination"
El Vee Echs at gagme.chi.il.us Runner up for lamest .sig on NSFnet, 1992!
Phil G. Fraering
>In article <PMETZGER.9...@snark.lehman.com> pmet...@lehman.com writes:
>>
>>In article <Dec04.105...@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> ld23...@casco.lance.colostate.edu (L. Detweiler) writes:
>>
>>>Timothy C. May (tc...@netcom.com) wrote:
>>
>>>: "Medusa" (me, others). I gave up long ago trying to convice Larry
>>>: Detweiler (alias an12070, The Executioner, S. Boxx, The Pervert, The
>>>: Psychopunk, and apparently such pseudonyms) that I am a real person,
>>>: that Nick Szabo is a real person not the same as me, and that several
>>>: other "Tentacles" and "Snakes" are easily verified to be real people
>>>: with real lives.
>>
>>>That's interesting. Perhaps you would like to enumerate these attempts. Here
>>>are a few I can think of off the top of my head.
>>
>>Mr. Detweiler:
>>
>>Nick Szabo, who's roomates (housemates, actually) are Geoff(sp?) Dale
>>and Romana Machado(sp?), lives in Cupertino, California, and may very
>>well have a listed phone number -- I haven't checked.
>For what it's worth, there is a Nicholas Szabo listed in the
>Cupertino phone book.
There are two Nicholas Szabos living in Cupertino. Back when
Nick first moved down there, before he got the phone installed,
I tried to fax him something, and had an interesting conversation
with the other Nick Szabo, where I said he sounded like he had
a bad cold, he said he felt fine, and was sure that there weren't
any other Nick Szabos in the area so I must have the right number...
>Since I've never met any of the above people, I'll beat Mr. Detweiler
>to the punch and point out that I've never been seen with them.
>Make of that whatever you will.
>Dave Criswell
>Not speaking for Oracle Corporation
Just wondering, but the David Criswell I met here in March? Or
another one?
--
Phil Fraering
p...@srl03.cacs.usl.edu
David Criswell
>dcri...@oracle.uucp (David Criswell) writes:
>
>>In article <PMETZGER.9...@snark.lehman.com> pmet...@lehman.com writes:
>>>
>>>In article <Dec04.105...@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> ld23...@casco.lance.colostate.edu (L. Detweiler) writes:
>>>
>>>>Timothy C. May (tc...@netcom.com) wrote:
>>>
>>>>: "Medusa" (me, others). I gave up long ago trying to convice Larry
>>>>: Detweiler (alias an12070, The Executioner, S. Boxx, The Pervert, The
>>>>: Psychopunk, and apparently such pseudonyms) that I am a real person,
>>>>: that Nick Szabo is a real person not the same as me, and that several
>>>>: other "Tentacles" and "Snakes" are easily verified to be real people
>>>>: with real lives.
>>>
>>>>That's interesting. Perhaps you would like to enumerate these attempts. Here
>>>>are a few I can think of off the top of my head.
>>>
>>>Mr. Detweiler:
>>>
>>>Nick Szabo, who's roomates (housemates, actually) are Geoff(sp?) Dale
>>>and Romana Machado(sp?), lives in Cupertino, California, and may very
>>>well have a listed phone number -- I haven't checked.
>
>>For what it's worth, there is a Nicholas Szabo listed in the
>>Cupertino phone book.
>
>There are two Nicholas Szabos living in Cupertino. Back when
There's only one in the phone book. Cupertino's not all that
big, and Szabo's a fairly uncommon name. If I were, umm, you
know, in Mr. Detweiler's mental state, this might lead me to
conclude that somebody was lifting "pseudos" from Bay Area
phonebooks, and the one in the directory does not post. I
don't really care about it enough to call him.
>Nick first moved down there, before he got the phone installed,
>I tried to fax him something, and had an interesting conversation
>with the other Nick Szabo, where I said he sounded like he had
>a bad cold, he said he felt fine, and was sure that there weren't
>any other Nick Szabos in the area so I must have the right number...
>
>>Since I've never met any of the above people, I'll beat Mr. Detweiler
>>to the punch and point out that I've never been seen with them.
>>Make of that whatever you will.
>
>>Dave Criswell
>>Not speaking for Oracle Corporation
>
>Just wondering, but the David Criswell I met here in March? Or
>another one?
No, but I have family in the area, and David's a fairly common
family name. Or are you implying something more sinister?
To paraphrase Steve Martin - "I'm in the phone book! I'm in the
phone book! I'm SOMEBODY!"
>--
>Phil Fraering
>p...@srl03.cacs.usl.edu
Dave Criswell
My reply-to is broken - use dcri...@us.oracle.com
Disclaimer: My employer wouldn't pseudospoof me
L. Detweiler
scrolled off all the interesting articles. I was hoping more
cryptoanarchists would show up to call me insane. Quite a pity.
David Criswell (dcri...@oracle.uucp) wrote:
: There's only one in the phone book. Cupertino's not all that
: big, and Szabo's a fairly uncommon name. If I were, umm, you
: know, in Mr. Detweiler's mental state, this might lead me to
: conclude that somebody was lifting "pseudos" from Bay Area
: phonebooks, and the one in the directory does not post. I
: don't really care about it enough to call him.
Mr. Criswell, could you describe the difficulty of getting fake names
into a phone book? is this trivial or impossible? This is not to in
any way imply that N.Szabo is such an occurence.
I don't know why everyone on the internet gives every single email address
they meet the benefit of the doubt. They all should get the detriment of
the suspicion. But what do I know? I am just a paranoid lunatic who is
progressing quite nicely on Prozac and intense psychoanalysis, thank you
very much.
Imagine that someone has made an art, science, and religion to pseudospoof.
Why would they do it? because there is immense power behind such a technique.
And minor barriers like phone numbers and phone books would be the first
mediums they corrupt. People trust phone numbers -- they believe that if
you can supply a phone number, you are are not a pseudonym. What is the
basis for this belief? The foundation? Nothing but naive trust that is
easily betrayed by those who have build their lives around deceptions.
Don't care? well, don't blame me when tomorrow you find out that the
cryptoanarchists own the largest share of the world mafia, and have
succeeded in doing so by coordinating it over the Internet. Even better yet,
let you be tortured by them all your life without ever discovering the
true source of your wretched desperation.
--
Evan M Corcoran
ld23...@turner.lance.colostate.edu (L. Detweiler) wrote:
> Don't care? well, don't blame me when tomorrow you find out that the
> cryptoanarchists own the largest share of the world mafia, and have
> succeeded in doing so by coordinating it over the Internet.
You mean "MAKE.MONEY.FAST" was for real?
-EMC
David Criswell
>I seem to have missed much of this thread. My news server seems to have
>scrolled off all the interesting articles. I was hoping more
>cryptoanarchists would show up to call me insane. Quite a pity.
Somehow, I knew this was going to happen. I'm not one, and I'm
quite a strong believer in taking responsibility for your own
actions. I've never used an anon server or otherwise posted/mailed
anything that did not have my name (and my employer's)
attached to it.
>David Criswell (dcri...@oracle.uucp) wrote:
>: There's only one in the phone book. Cupertino's not all that
>: big, and Szabo's a fairly uncommon name. If I were, umm, you
>: know, in Mr. Detweiler's mental state, this might lead me to
>: conclude that somebody was lifting "pseudos" from Bay Area
>: phonebooks, and the one in the directory does not post. I
>: don't really care about it enough to call him.
>
>Mr. Criswell, could you describe the difficulty of getting fake names
>into a phone book? is this trivial or impossible? This is not to in
>any way imply that N.Szabo is such an occurence.
That's not really the problem. The poster who I responded to listed
where each of the "medusas" live, and invited you to call a few
using directory information and _ask them_. I don't know how
familiar you are with the Bay Area, but some were 60 miles
apart, spread across three area codes. I cannot imagine a scenario
where the "cryptoanarchist" in question could manage to have a
live person on each phone line willing to admit to a particular
post. I only contributed when I had one of the phone books handy.
>I don't know why everyone on the internet gives every single email address
>they meet the benefit of the doubt. They all should get the detriment of
>the suspicion. But what do I know? I am just a paranoid lunatic who is
>progressing quite nicely on Prozac and intense psychoanalysis, thank you
>very much.
I'm glad things are progressing well for you. However, when you accuse
someone of being a pseudo and they turn around and give you an easy
way to prove that they are not, and you simply ignore it, it's a sure
sign that one needs to adjust their Prozac dosage.
>Imagine
funny you should use that word
>that someone
but apparently not the people you were accusing
>has made an art, science, and religion to pseudospoof.
>Why would they do it? because there is immense power behind such a technique.
>And minor barriers like phone numbers and phone books would be the first
>mediums they corrupt. People trust phone numbers -- they believe that if
>you can supply a phone number, you are are not a pseudonym. What is the
>basis for this belief? The foundation? Nothing but naive trust that is
>easily betrayed by those who have build their lives around deceptions.
Back there I pointed out that if I were going to do this sort of
thing, I'd lift existing people out of the phonebook so that some
verification techniques would show false positives. Asking someone
"did you post this to USENET?" will, in this case, result in the
response "What's USENET?".
Certainly it's true that the net really boils down to a flow of
electrons from one place to another, and as such, it probably
isn't too difficult to forge articles for somebody with a much
greater understanding of the control of those electrons. That's
one good reason for not taking the net too seriously.
>Don't care? well, don't blame me when tomorrow you find out that the
>cryptoanarchists own the largest share of the world mafia, and have
>succeeded in doing so by coordinating it over the Internet. Even better yet,
>let you be tortured by them all your life without ever discovering the
>true source of your wretched desperation.
Umm, okay. But the point was that I've seen pretty good proof that
the "medusas" in question are, in fact, several different people,
so it's a bit of a stretch to go from there to being the true
source of my wretched desperation.
Just to save you the trouble, my employer's switchboard is at
(415) 506-7000, and you can ask for me if you feel that this
is a forgery of some sort.
L. Detweiler
: Umm, okay. But the point was that I've seen pretty good proof that
: the "medusas" in question are, in fact, several different people,
: so it's a bit of a stretch to go from there to being the true
: source of my wretched desperation.
I see. Who do you know who has called them? Have you? Or am I the
only policeman in cyberspace? Don't you think it is amusing how
no one close to these people has actually posted mail vouching
for them? P.Metzger, by the way, lives in NY as I understand it.
I challenge Geoff Dale to come out of the woordwork and vouch that
N.Szabo is indeed his roommate, as P.Metzger claims in a post
you refer to. (BTW, I would appreciate if you would send me that
post, where supposed information was given on the existence of
accused tentacles).
I traded mail with Geoff Dale some weeks ago. I think everyone
would be amused about its content in regard to N.Szabo. There
seemed to be quite an amazing contradiction compared with the
Metzger claims. But unless these slimy cyberanarchists come out of
the woodwork, how am I going to prove anything in public?
If you are convinced as soon as someone posts a message saying
`I am real', you will never make a good tentacle hunter. This
is the absolute first attack they have perfected dealing with.
: Just to save you the trouble, my employer's switchboard is at
: (415) 506-7000, and you can ask for me if you feel that this
: is a forgery of some sort.
It's OK, I trust you. It's just E.Hughes, T.C.May, and all their
tentacles that are the problem.
--
Geoff Dale
ld23...@dolores.lance.colostate.edu writes:
> I challenge Geoff Dale to come out of the woordwork and vouch that
> N.Szabo is indeed his roommate, as P.Metzger claims in a post
> you refer to. (BTW, I would appreciate if you would send me that
> post, where supposed information was given on the existence of
> accused tentacles).
I hereby vouch for Nick Szabo as the True Name of a unique individual as
distinct from the various other folk you've accused of being
non-existant, the list of whom has grown to long to list here, but
specifically includes Tim May. Who is or is not my roommate is none of
your damn business. Just as my phone number is none of your business.
> I traded mail with Geoff Dale some weeks ago. I think everyone
> would be amused about its content in regard to N.Szabo. There
> seemed to be quite an amazing contradiction compared with the
> Metzger claims. But unless these slimy cyberanarchists come out of
> the woodwork, how am I going to prove anything in public?
Interesting fishing expedition, since all I wrote in my posts about Nick
was that he existed. You said earlier to Stanton McCandlish, that you
denounce lies wherever they occured, care to do some denouncing on your
own posts?
- Geoff Dale
L. Detweiler
: In article <Dec24.081...@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> L. Detweiler,
: I hereby vouch for Nick Szabo as the True Name of a unique individual as
: distinct from the various other folk you've accused of being
: non-existant, the list of whom has grown to long to list here, but
: specifically includes Tim May. Who is or is not my roommate is none of
: your damn business. Just as my phone number is none of your business.
: > I traded mail with Geoff Dale some weeks ago. I think everyone
Mr. Metzger is the person who volunteered the information that you lived
at the same residence as N.Szabo, as close as I can figure out. Please
confirm this, or tell us how Mr. Metzger was mistaken. And I have a
batch of interesting mail that suggests you don't really know anything
about N.Szabo. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence in me that you know
this person. Unfortunately, the person who has sent me this mail has not
given me permission to post it.
Oh, but thanks for playing `defend that tentacle'.
: Interesting fishing expedition, since all I wrote in my posts about Nick
: was that he existed. You said earlier to Stanton McCandlish, that you
: denounce lies wherever they occured, care to do some denouncing on your
: own posts?
Someone posted here that N.Szabo shared a residence with you, if I am
not mistaken. I challenge anyone to produce that letter. I only have
a deeply nested followup, and as near as I can tell P.Metzger made the
claim. P.Metzger, BTW, you are doing an outstanding job of defending
the cyberanarchists as the nice people next door and me as the lunatic
psychopath. Congratulations! If you repeat anything frequently enough,
people begin to believe it.
Look guys, if you show up to post on these threads, please do not insult
the world with shadowy unverifiable doublespeak about the existence of
people behind the email addresses. It only further damages your
credibility. We have as much evidence for believing N.Szabo is real
as in Santa Claus, and a lot of circumstantial evidence otherwise.
But I am beginning to realize that the rest of the world does not
easily recognize a lie when it pops up in Usenet. So perhaps we should
let this whole matter of Cyberanarchists scroll off into oblivion. No
one wants to join me in this delightful new cyberspatial game of
Tentacle Hunting. It does create some stressful situations, I admit.
Accusing people of lying, mailbombs, letters to the postmaster,
counterattacks of insanity and paranoia. Yes, quite the sordid slime.
A pity to be defiling Cyberspace with this trash.
--
Geoff Dale
ld23...@casco.lance.colostate.edu writes:
> Mr. Metzger is the person who volunteered the information that you lived
> at the same residence as N.Szabo, as close as I can figure out. Please
> confirm this, or tell us how Mr. Metzger was mistaken. And I have a
> batch of interesting mail that suggests you don't really know anything
> about N.Szabo. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence in me that you know
> this person. Unfortunately, the person who has sent me this mail has not
> given me permission to post it.
If you haven't noticed, most folks have lost interest trying to convince
you that you're incorrect. Satisfying your requests never work. What
value does the statement, "Nick is my roommate," hold? You'll simply
accuse me of lying. I attempted to create an actual "web-of-trust" with
you, by getting a friend of mine who actually went to college with you,
to vouch for my existance and I vouched for the existance of others,
including Nick. This attempt broke down when you demanded my phone number
and began hurling epithets at our mutual acquaintance. At this point I
gave up caring whether or not you were ever cured of your delusions.
As for your "batch of e-mail", not having permission to repost private
e-mail has never stopped you before, and so I must conclude that this is
simply a false innuendo. Not that I care. All the e-mail in the world
doesn't affect present truth in reality.
> Oh, but thanks for playing `defend that tentacle'.
Your welcome.
> P.Metzger, BTW, you are doing an outstanding job of defending
> the cyberanarchists as the nice people next door and me as the lunatic
> psychopath.
Actually, you seem to be doing a wonderful job of this yourself. I am
grateful for this, I was afraid that you might remain coherent enough for
someone to actually take you seriously. When you are coherent, you
actually write very well.
> Congratulations! If you repeat anything frequently enough,
> people begin to believe it.
That seems to be your strategy. It doesn't work when you so consistantly
undermine your credability with rants, tho.
> Look guys, if you show up to post on these threads, please do not insult
> the world with shadowy unverifiable doublespeak about the existence of
> people behind the email addresses. It only further damages your
> credibility. We have as much evidence for believing N.Szabo is real
> as in Santa Claus, and a lot of circumstantial evidence otherwise.
>
> But I am beginning to realize that the rest of the world does not
> easily recognize a lie when it pops up in Usenet. So perhaps we should
> let this whole matter of Cyberanarchists scroll off into oblivion. No
> one wants to join me in this delightful new cyberspatial game of
> Tentacle Hunting. It does create some stressful situations, I admit.
> Accusing people of lying, mailbombs, letters to the postmaster,
> counterattacks of insanity and paranoia. Yes, quite the sordid slime.
> A pity to be defiling Cyberspace with this trash.
So stop posting and this little bit of net.history will soon be forgotten.
I rarely follow usenet, btw. Just dropped in to see what you where up
to. If you want me to see any responses you may want to e-mail me
pl...@netcom.com. Feel free to vilify me here tho, since making your
sh*t-list is one of the highest net.honors available these days.
Lovingly,
Geoff <plaz> Dale
L. Detweiler
: If you haven't noticed, most folks have lost interest trying to convince
: you that you're incorrect. Satisfying your requests never work. What
: value does the statement, "Nick is my roommate," hold?
If it is false, and you claim it, it is trash, I agree. If it is false
and someone else claims it, it is trash. I challenge whoever claimed it
to the world here (someone did claim that you were his roommate here)
to come out of your slimy cesspool and confirm your claim or rebut it.
I ask anyone in Cyberspace interested in purity and freedom from lies
to repost this message. And if you, Mr. Dale, are behind a lie, I request
that you cease and desist no matter who is involved.
: So stop posting and this little bit of net.history will soon be forgotten.
You and all the rest of the cyberanarchists would be quite relieved, eh?
Why don't you just give up on the Szabo tentacle? Does anyone really
believe this is a real person? You are all quite ingenious with your
defenses, but they are no match for the truth.
: Feel free to vilify me here tho, since making your
: sh*t-list is one of the highest net.honors available these days.
I do keep a `lie' list. And I do vilify liars when I stumble on them,
or when they are so kind as to stick their trash in my mailbox or out
on Usenet for the entire world to be repulsed by.
Death to all tentacles.
Lovingly,
--
Paul Ferguson
: I do keep a `lie' list. And I do vilify liars when I stumble on them,
: or when they are so kind as to stick their trash in my mailbox or out
: on Usenet for the entire world to be repulsed by.
Gee, Larry, would you care to post your "lie list" so that we can
all judge for ourselves?
: Death to all tentacles.
Indeed. (oops -- I forget; I may be a tentacle, too.)
Paul Ferguson
CypherTentacle Magumbo
L. Detweiler
trying to convince me that I'm incorrect. Satisfying my simple requests have
never worked. What value does the statement, "Nick is my roommate," hold?
If it is false, I'll simply accuse N.Szabo,T.C.May,B.Stewart,G.Dale,P.Metzger,
S.Klingsporn et.al. (all people who have clamed that N.Szabo is `real') of
lying.
They have attempted to create an actual "web-of-lies" with
me, by getting a friend of mine who actually went to college with me,
to vouch for Szabo's `existance' and vouch for the `existance' of others,
This attempt broke down when I demanded phone numbers
and began hurling questions at people who were acting suspiciously.
At this point I refuse to give up caring whether or not they would ever be
cured of their delusions.
As for my "batch of e-mail", not having permission to repost private
e-mail has never stopped me before, as an absolute last resort, if it will
aid in the exposure of frauds, deceptions, and lies. I must conclude this
is not a false innuendo-- I *do* care. All the e-mail in the world doesn't
affect present truth in reality.
As for discrediting themselves, actually, they seem to be doing a wonderful
job of this themselves. I am grateful for this, I was afraid that they might
remain coherent enough for someone to actually take them seriously.
When they are incoherent, they actually write very well.
It doesn't work when they so consistantly undermine their credibility with
rants, tho.
So start posting and this little bit of net.history will soon be reignited.
Lovingly,
Geoff <plaz> Dale
L. Detweiler
Geoff Dale (pl...@netcom.com) wrote:
: If you haven't noticed, most folks have lost interest trying to convince
: you that you're incorrect. Satisfying your requests never work. What
: value does the statement, "Nick is my roommate," hold? You'll simply
: accuse me of lying. I attempted to create an actual "web-of-trust" with
: you, by getting a friend of mine who actually went to college with you,
: to vouch for my existance and I vouched for the existance of others,
: including Nick. This attempt broke down when you demanded my phone number
: and began hurling epithets at our mutual acquaintance. At this point I
: gave up caring whether or not you were ever cured of your delusions.
If you haven't noticed, everyone who has claimed that N.Szabo is real
are hiding under the bedcovers and have abandoned you. They seem to be
afraid of propagating a lie further. Or is it a lie? Please tell me.
If Nick is your roommate, why do you fail to vouch for him? is it that
you guys live together but actually hate each other's guts? Or that you
don't have the slightest clue about who Nick Szabo is, really? That seems
awfully suspicious, given that P.Metzger claimed you guys lived together,
and that T.C.May says that he is `working' with him, and that B.Stewart
says he saw his drivers license at a cypherpunk party. Hmm, very interesting.
What is going on here? What is wrong with this picture? What does all this
have to do with mail that I have received that is highly incriminating, and
suggests you, Mr. Dale, have not a clue about who N.Szabo is, yet he is
your roommate? Is this a Web of Lies designed to fool that asshole L.Detweiler,
who is so tenaciously attempting to unravel all the lies he has been
subject to on the cypherpunks list? That he no longer likes being the
mouse in a roomful of vicious cats? Please tell me, Mr. Dale, what view of
reality I live in. Am I a deluded fanatic? Or a crushing whistleblower?
Which will it be, Mr. Dale? The world is listening. I am waiting on the
edge of my keyboard. The stake of many reputations and credibilities are
on the line. Where is N.Szabo? Where is T.C.May? Where is B.Stewart? Where
is P.Metzger? Make your claims, put your version of Truth on the table,
and we will see what holds up under the glare of thousands eyeing your
fragile lies. Mr.Szabo, please explain to me what you meant what you said
when you `have never pseudospoofed' despite RISKS 15.27 that quotes your
elaborate structure to accomplish deceptions at the interstate or perhaps
*international* level. Why won't any of you say anything about pseudospoofing?
What do you think I am talking about when you hear that I say that I have
evidence that N.Szabo is not real? Does it really matter? What contortions
and damage control will all you cypherpunks go through to further the lies?
Are you now going to tell me that Mr. Metzger was (oops) mistaken about
where N.Szabo lives? That he actually lives with Mr. Metzger? Where will
Mr. Szabo live tomorrow? With T.C.May or B.Stewart? How many new parties will
they attend where they see him? Will they discover where he works, after all
these weeks? Will they decide what his phone number is? Will they discover
an overlooked business card that they missed?
How much longer will you all continue to hold to your lies, that no one
in the Cypherpunks has ever pseudospoofed, particularly the leaders, and
most definitely not on the scale that I claim? How many more clueless outsiders
will you convince that I am a Deluded Ranting Psychopathic Fanatic Cyberspace
Stalker? When will you stop filling my mailbox and cyberspace with lies?
When will you stop? Or are you all going to just slink back into your holes
and try to sleep soundly at night, thinking the whole black affair has
passed you over? That *nobody* is watching, that *nobody* gives a damn if
you go to the most extraordinary lengths to pretend that a cardboard cutout
is a real human being? How many more webs of lies will you weave? When will
it stop?
Forgive them father, for they know not what they do.
L. Detweiler
The following people have claimed that N.Szabo is a real person, and
by implication not a `tentacle' of any other person. I humbly beg you
to play the Defend That Tentacle game some more. Why are you so quiet?
Are you on vacation? Don't you want to come out to play with me? It's
no fun when somebody says `I shot you' and somebody else says `no you
didn't' and then they say `You are a paranoid ranting lunatic who needs
a straightjacket'. Or, worse, when I say `no you didn't' they go home
and hide in their mommy's closet.
Please, come out to play! Let's start the name calling game some more!
Maybe my friends will overhear you and no longer be my friends!
Or perhaps it has already happened! Tell me that I am the biggest
loser on the Internet for caring about what kind of trash goes through
my mailbox, the newsgroups, and my mind! What is Usenet good for
but blackening each other and mudslinging? For hidden affiliations
no one knows about squirming beneath the surface of the bold words and
attacks? For ingenious evasions and distortions? For fantastic ego massages?
And reputation smears? Let us see more examples
of how those that bought a new public access Usenet account yesterday
can start their onslaught on the aged elderly today! Let's see how they can
gang rape all the virgins they find standing in their way!
Won't you come out to play? Whisper again in my ear how sz...@netcom.com
is a True Name! I hereby vouch that these claims of True Names, distinct
from All Other Individuals who are Harassing Me are extremely compelling!
Try it some more! Tell me some more stories! I want to hear the one how
the Frog pretended to be a Prince, and Cinderella married him, and everyone
lived Happily Ever After. That is, after the mean old Stepmother was killed.
sz...@netcom.com - Lead Tentacle
T.C.May - Head Puppeteer
B.Stewart - Spin and Damage Control
G.Dale - Innocent Bystander (Or, T.C.May Bribery Victim)
P.Metzger - The Cyberspatial Pit Bull
Lovingly,
--
L. Detweiler
distinct from the various other folk I've accused of being
non-existant, the list of whom has grown to long to list here, but
specifically includes Tim May. Who is or is not my roommate is none of
L.Detweiler wrote:
> I traded mail with Geoff Dale some weeks ago. I think everyone
> would be amused about its content in regard to N.Szabo. There
> seemed to be quite an amazing contradiction compared with the
> Metzger claims. But unless these slimy cyberanarchists come out of
> the woodwork, how am I going to prove anything in public?
Interesting fishing expedition, since all I wrote in my posts about Nick
was that he didn't exist. Since I said earlier to Stanton McCandlish that
I denounce lies wherever they occur, I denounce my own post.
--
L. Detweiler
> I challenge Geoff Dale to come out of the woordwork and vouch that
> N.Szabo is indeed his roommate, as P.Metzger claims in a post
> you refer to. (BTW, I would appreciate if you would send me that
> post, where supposed information was given on the existence of
> accused tentacles).
I hereby vouch for Nick Szabo as the True Name of a unique individual as
distinct from the various other folk you've accused of being
non-existant, the list of whom has grown to long to list here, but
specifically includes Tim May. Who is or is not my roommate is none of
your damn business. Just as my phone number is none of your business.
> I traded mail with Geoff Dale some weeks ago. I think everyone
> would be amused about its content in regard to N.Szabo. There
> seemed to be quite an amazing contradiction compared with the
> Metzger claims. But unless these slimy cyberanarchists come out of
> the woodwork, how am I going to prove anything in public?
Interesting fishing expedition, since all Geoff Dale wrote in his posts
L. Detweiler
unique individual as distinct from the various other folk accused of being
non-existant, the list of whom has grown long, and
specifically includes Tim May, are generally just trash. They have twisted
other's trust and the English language, and the Zimmermann concept of
`web of trust' to pretend that mere email addresses are equivalent to real
people, and that who is posting behind any address is none of anyone's
damn business, just as the tentacle phone numbers are none of anyone's
damn business.
I have been on an interesting fishing expedition for many weeks, and found
some stellar liars and pathetic bystanders. Mr. Dale appears to me to be
one such bystander. I wonder what His Royal Eminence, T.C.May, offered him
as a bribe to attest that sz...@netcom.com is a live, human being and not
a sickly green tentacle. I heard that Mr. May made quite a bit of money at
Intel from chip fabrication, and I've always wondered what he was investing
it in. Now I know. Now we all know! International Pseudospoofing Inc. Kind
of scary, though, the lengths these people will go to to promote lies.
Makes me wonder about the Wired article about them, and that supposed
photographer L.Dyer, who most assuredly doesn't have an email address. There's
no problem as long as everyone knows they are pathological liars, but
unfortunately quite a few people and reporters are taking them seriously.
I keep stabbing this black monster, but it keeps waving its tentacles. I
am quite bloody! But surely the spectators in the Coliseum have been
provide some delightful entertainment.
We'll see how much farther they take it. Maybe the next message will be
an Official Announcement where they say, `WAYS OUT! just kidding,
pretty funny, huh? don't be mad. We got a lot of entertainment from you,
Detweiler.'
--
L. Detweiler
: > Congratulations! If you repeat anything frequently enough,
: > people begin to believe it.
:
: That seems to be your strategy. It doesn't work when you so consistantly
: undermine your credability with rants, tho.
: So stop posting and this little bit of net.history will soon be forgotten.
Hello world, I am not proud of everything I have posted `out there' lately,
but I am even less proud of the ugly depths and grotesque deformities
I have seen in certain black corners of the Internet lately, and the
apalling complacency with which you all view it. The skeletons
have not only fallen out the the closet, they have danced around us and
punched us all in the face. My own letters on the subject are an attempt to
shock you from your silent complacency and `accessorizing'.
What happens when trust breaks down? What happens when people respond
to their own posts? When they misattribute writing? When they don't care
who is behind email addresses, or deceive others about them? When they
post multiple messages from different addresses?
Imagine that every one of my posts came from a different address.
What is to prevent me? My honesty? My integrity? What if I am a
cyberanarchist? Would I be horrified or delighted at these embezzlements
of trust? By the squirming and writhing of my victims underneath my
crushing onslaught?
* * *
I was reading a book about ancient torture techniques. (Actually, it was
about something else, but some paragraphs on the subject crept in from
obvious relevance.)
The Roman soldiers had invented some of the most grisly torture and execution
techniques the world has ever seen, perhaps the most humiliating and heinous
punishments known to man. One that I was reading about was called
`Circle of Eight'. A blindfolded prisoner stands as Roman soldiers
(enthusiastic volunteers?) circle him and take turns punching him in the
face. They take the blindfold off, and ask him, who hit you? And if the
prisoner fails to name the person, the game continues, they dance in their
delight, circling at a faster, more dizzying rate, and pummel harder.
What is the point of all this? I don't have a major point, except to
suggest that this is one of the most evil abominations of humanity I can
imagine. And that it is shockingly identical to the mentality that a
cyberanarchist has in hammering others with his fake email identity
arsenals.
Medusa is delighted to punch the blindfolded victim in the face with
her dizzying circle of tentacles. Guess who it is! Ooops, you're wrong,
sorry. PUNCH. What? No, N.Szabo is a real person. PUNCH. Pseudospoofing
is immoral? nah. PUNCH. N.Szabo is my roommate. PUNCH. Lies are
liberating. PUNCH. cypherpunks have never pseudospoofed. PUNCH.
especially the leaders. PUNCH. and everything in the media is true.
PUNCH. especially what we say. PUNCH. and our leaders are the
greatest of all. PUNCH.
See the blood dripping on the ground, see the hideous disfigurement of
the victim's face.
* * *
I am posting this many messages to drive home the point that
the Cyberanarchists are not really noble at all. They are like Roman
Soldiers who will hit you when they see that you are blindfolded. Otherwise,
they hide in the shadows like all the rest of the cowardly slime at the
putrid, dank recesses of humanity. And unless someone takes out the
trash, we're going to have to get used to the smell. But where will we
go to eat, then?
go ahead, tentacles, water down my words with more trash. dilute and warp
my message beyond all recognition. that's probably all we read is, anyway.
all of history is just a big lie set out by people who aren't interested
in the truth, but in fooling us to assuage their egos. the Bible, of course,
is the worst of all.
* * *
I read one author who suggested that as part of Christ's torture before
literally bearing his cross, he had been subjected to the Circle of Eight.
Cyberanarchists, who are you punching? What was that saying of Christ's,
as you do unto the lowest of men, you do unto me?
I think the question you have to ask yourselves is, if a victim is
blindfolded, does God hear his screams?
What if the soldiers are athiests?
When does the Circle of Eight stop, anyway? When the victim is
unconscious? When he is dead?
``NEXT!''
--
Christopher J Burian
L. Detweiler
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523
Lovingly,
--
ld23...@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU
---
* Origin: TheRose BBS +1(503)286-3855 - UseNet <=> FidoNet Gate (1:105/7)
L. Detweiler
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523
If you haven't noticed, most tentacles and accomplices have lost interest
Lovingly,
Geoff <plaz> Dale
---
L. Detweiler
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523
Boy, sure is quiet in this thread. You could hear a pin drop.
ld23...@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU
---
Jason Burrell
Probably because the entire thread started from the mumblings of a
ranting, raving lunatic.
Jurgen Botz
Paul Ferguson <ferg...@icm1.icp.net> wrote:
>L. Detweiler (ld23...@dolores.lance.colostate.edu) wrote:
>: Death to all tentacles.
>Indeed. (oops -- I forget; I may be a tentacle, too.)
I love tentacles... especially in calimari salad, just barely
cooked and with lots of lime juice, spices, and cilentro. If
anyone wants the recipe, mail me!
--
Jurgen Botz, jb...@mtholyoke.edu | ``Accountability is the price of openness''
South Hadley, MA, USA | - Daniel Geer
L. Detweiler
: I will vouch for Nick Szabo, lead tentacle and Heisendude.
Heil heisendude.
: Does this explain his tenacious nosing out of tentacular connections?
: Are the 'truffles' he is retrieving evidence of the black pentacle or
: merely T1 impedence residoo-doo?
truffles? what a delightful metaphor. yes, I like to bite the truffles.
--
L. Detweiler
wow! someone took the trouble to forge me! I really *must* be
famous now.
--
L. Detweiler
: Probably because the entire thread started from the mumblings of a
: ranting, raving lunatic.
yeah, that S.Boxx is quite a character. What are we going to do with him?
--
Jason Burrell
I don't care who started it. I'm just sick of seeing an endless thread.
Does anyone care to fill me in on what exactly started this? What is a
"tentacle," exactly? Simple issues like that. I'm sure I'm not the only
one reading this group wondering about the background of this thread.
David Criswell
>David Criswell (dcri...@oracle.uucp) wrote:
>
>: Umm, okay. But the point was that I've seen pretty good proof that
>: the "medusas" in question are, in fact, several different people,
>: so it's a bit of a stretch to go from there to being the true
>: source of my wretched desperation.
>
>I see. Who do you know who has called them?
Nobody. If they were the true source of somebody's wretched
desperation I'm sure someone would have by now.
>Have you?
No. They aren't the true source of my wretched desperation.
>Or am I the
>only policeman in cyberspace?
Apparently, since they're the true source of your wretched desperation.
You are apparently the only one who cares enough to waste any time
on this. You've been provided with ample information to prove or
disprove your accusations. You have refused to do so, and in such
a refusal, you come off like a ranting loony. Is there any evidence
_whatsoever_ that these accounts are indeed one person?
>Don't you think it is amusing how
>no one close to these people has actually posted mail vouching
>for them? P.Metzger, by the way, lives in NY as I understand it.
P.Metzger and T.C May have both posted evidence that they are
seperate people. In absence of _any_ evidence to the contrary,
I accept their word for it. I don't see a motive, I don't see
any evidence. No smoking gun - from my perspective, it's simply
your word against theirs. You've given me not one iota of
proof for your claims, just a blanket assertion. There is
no reason whatsoever for me (again, I don't know anybody involved
here) to doubt their words. You, on the other hand, have alleged
a huge conspiracy that's gone to a huge amount of theoretically
tracable work (phone lines for all the pseudos in 3 different
area codes). This seems like an extremely expensive way to
accomplish what should be a fairly straightforward (and I
note, harmless) procedure.
I will reconsider that opinion if you can post whatever it is
that convinced you that this is one person.
[caramba! el merde knee-deepo removamundo!]
>(BTW, I would appreciate if you would send me that
>post, where supposed information was given on the existence of
>accused tentacles).
Sorry, I don't have this anymore. PM, could you repost this?
[el ranto mucho deletia]
>If you are convinced as soon as someone posts a message saying
>`I am real', you will never make a good tentacle hunter. This
>is the absolute first attack they have perfected dealing with.
Umm, I don't, really. I pretty much assume everything on the
net is crap, since its an insecure means of communication.
Anyone not convinced of this is politely directed towards
their nearest zumabot posting.
>It's OK, I trust you.
You really don't know how _important_ this is to me.
Dave Criswell
The true source of Oracle Corporation's wretched desperation, and
low level stooge of the vast satanic cryptoanarchist conspiracy
dcri...@us.oracle.com
Bill Stewart +1-908-949-0705
Mr. Dale appears to me to be one such bystander.
I wonder what His Royal Eminence, T.C.May, offered him
as a bribe to attest that sz...@netcom.com is a live,
human being and not a sickly green tentacle.
Hey, none of us have *claimed* that Szabo isn't green! :-)
Only that he's got a body and a driver's license, and is physically
distinct from Tim May et al. It's true that I didn't examine Szabo's
genetics or body temperature, so it's possible he's really a Replicant
or Mechanical designed to look not quite like Tim May while operating
under his control, but ...... I don't think so :-)
I guess, to be complete, I will point out that Nick Szabo didn't
appear to be green, and nor sickly, nor did he have obvious tentacles...
--
# Bill Stewart NCR Corp, 6870 Koll Center Pkwy, Pleasanton CA 94566
# Email: bill.s...@pleasantonca.ncr.com bills...@attmail.com
# Phone: 1-510-484-6204 Beeper: 1-510-224-7043
# Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!
L. Detweiler
: I don't care who started it. I'm just sick of seeing an endless thread.
the answer is to stop posting. <g>
: Does anyone care to fill me in on what exactly started this? What is a
: "tentacle," exactly? Simple issues like that. I'm sure I'm not the only
: one reading this group wondering about the background of this thread.
a tentacle is a fake email identity used by someone for subversive and
dishonest and immoral reasons (all uses fit into these categories <g>).
a snake is a tentacle that claims it is a real person when it is not.
--
L. Detweiler
: Jason Burrell (Jason_...@fcircus.sat.tx.us) wrote:
: A former member of the Cypherpunks mailing list believes that
: the 'cryptoanarchist' label is more than a name and implies
: a program for world domination by satanic forces. He writes
: at length, repeating his neolgisms of 'pseudospoofing',
: 'tentacles of the medusa', probably hoping, like David Sternlight,
: that he will be quoted by Wired Magazine and achieve fame
: less evanescent than the fleeting bytes of comp.org.eff.talk.
S.Boxx is quite a character, eh?
: He, Lancelot Rotweiler and Julf, founder of the finnish anon server
: have schismatically formed their own Cypherwonky mailing list to
: reveal the truth about the impending crypto-gasmic armageddon.
oh, so Julf is a bad guy now? this is hard to keep track of. The cypherpunks
are the main users of anon.penet.fi but think that he is behind a smear
campaign to `reveal the truth about the impending crypto-gasmic armageddon'?
: All clear now? :-)
yes!
--
Grady Ward | compiler of: | finger gr...@netcom.com
gr...@netcom.com | Moby Words, Hyphenator | for more information
+1 707 826 7715 | Part-of-Speech | 15 E2 AD D3 D1 C6 F3 FC
(voice / 24hr FAX) | Pronunciator, Thesaurus | 58 AC F7 3D 4F 01 1E 2F
L. Detweiler
: Apparently, since they're the true source of your wretched desperation.
: You are apparently the only one who cares enough to waste any time
: on this. You've been provided with ample information to prove or
: disprove your accusations. You have refused to do so, and in such
: a refusal, you come off like a ranting loony. Is there any evidence
: _whatsoever_ that these accounts are indeed one person?
false. I have prevented evidence that the people who claim N.Szabo is real
are all liars. I have challenged them to come out from their closet for
a war of the truth. they know they will lose so they hide behind their
mommy's apron.
B.Stewart,T.C.May,G.Dale,P.Metzger, I CHALLENGE YOU TO A DUEL OF THE TRUTH
but if you hide from the boogeyman, no one can have any fun!
: P.Metzger and T.C May have both posted evidence that they are
: seperate people.
idiot, I am not claiming that they are not. I am claiming that they have
an arsenal of fake identities. do you have any clue what I am talking about
at all?
: In absence of _any_ evidence to the contrary,
: I accept their word for it. I don't see a motive, I don't see
: any evidence. No smoking gun - from my perspective, it's simply
: your word against theirs. You've given me not one iota of
: proof for your claims, just a blanket assertion. There is
: no reason whatsoever for me (again, I don't know anybody involved
: here) to doubt their words.
I have been posting proof like mad, but the defendants keep running away
from the courtroom. and you are quite ill informed to comment on this
matter in any way whatsoever from your pathetic lack of knowledge. those
who have seen my evidence are being silent. those that know that the
cyberanarchist slime is hiding in the closet are being quiet. they are
waiting for the right atmosphere to debate my claims in a scientific
manner without fear of being labelled `crazy' by all the cyberanarchist
idiots and clueless sympathizers. there are quite a bit of people out
there who can judge the truth for themselves, independent of the
black trash they are being pummeled with by saboteurs and agent
provacateurs.
: You, on the other hand, have alleged
: a huge conspiracy that's gone to a huge amount of theoretically
: tracable work (phone lines for all the pseudos in 3 different
: area codes). This seems like an extremely expensive way to
: accomplish what should be a fairly straightforward (and I
: note, harmless) procedure.
WHEN YOU HAVE SOME EVIDENCE TO REFUTE MY CLAIM, POST IT.
misinformed speculation, I will not waste my time with.
: I will reconsider that opinion if you can post whatever it is
: that convinced you that this is one person.
I have posted all the proof I am going to about N.Szabo being a
tentacle of t.C. May. When the people who claim I am mistaken come
out of the sewer some more to prove me wrong, I will rip their own
lies into shredded pulp, and humiliate them in front of the entire
world for their lies.
: >(BTW, I would appreciate if you would send me that
: >post, where supposed information was given on the existence of
: >accused tentacles).
: Sorry, I don't have this anymore. PM, could you repost this?
you stupid idiot! You are trying my patience beyond even Christ's!
how can you comment on something you know nothing
about! you claim that you have been following this but
are not listening to anything important.
ONCE AGAIN FOR EVERYONE WHO WASN'T LISTENTING
P.Metzger posted a cliam that N.Szabo lived with G.Dale. THIS IS
A LIE. N.Szabo sz...@netcom.com is a TENTACLE of T.C.MAY
P.Metzger refuses to come out and post any more because he
KNOWS IT IS A LIE he KNOWS THAT HE MADE A FATAL MISTAKE
: Umm, I don't, really. I pretty much assume everything on the
: net is crap, since its an insecure means of communication.
: Anyone not convinced of this is politely directed towards
: their nearest zumabot posting.
yet, you believe that every single email address maps to a unique
human being. what kind of silly hypocrite are you?
: You really don't know how _important_ this is to me.
obviously, from your postings, it is not important to you at all.
you do, however, believe that it is important to make sure that
I have been discredited.
who out there has an attention span beyond that of a flea? who
has seen this whole thread and the lies that permeate it?
I am going to SQUISH the tentacles!
--
L. Detweiler
: Hey, none of us have *claimed* that Szabo isn't green! :-)
: Only that he's got a body and a driver's license, and is physically
: distinct from Tim May et al. It's true that I didn't examine Szabo's
: genetics or body temperature, so it's possible he's really a Replicant
: or Mechanical designed to look not quite like Tim May while operating
: under his control, but ...... I don't think so :-)
you have claimed that N.Szabo is a real person and claimed he is a different
person than all cypherpunks. But sz...@netcom.com is nothing but a
Cryptoanarchist Infiltration site, a green tentacle.
if the cypherpunks have gone to the trouble to get someone to pose as him
and get a fake driver's license, it would not surprise me. but let us see
who claims to have seen his drivers license? who knows where he works?
come out to play `defend that tentacle' with me. (actually, you play
`defend that tentacle', I play `nail the lies')
have you decided where he lives yet? did he move away from Mr.Dale's little
enclave? is he a vagrant now? living in cyberspace? hee, hee. you guys are
such losers. even after every one of you is dead you will probably still
be fooling people with your lies in the history books.
it really makes me sick that B.Stewart would
1) pretend he is religious (someone repost that, I lost it, I will tear it
to shreds)
2) promote tax evasion and black marketeering and money laundering on
the cypherwonks list as `privacy'
3) defend a tentacle
4) work for a respectable company like AT&T but be full to the brim with
the black filth of the cyberanarchists.
--
Laura Burchard
In article <CJ81A...@yuma.acns.colostate.edu>,
L. Detweiler <ld23...@dolores.lance.colostate.edu> wrote:
>false. I have prevented evidence that the people who claim N.Szabo is real
>are all liars. I have challenged them to come out from their closet for
>a war of the truth. they know they will lose so they hide behind their
>mommy's apron.
>
>those who have seen my evidence are being silent. those that know that the
>cyberanarchist slime is hiding in the closet are being quiet. they are
>waiting for the right atmosphere to debate my claims in a scientific
>manner without fear of being labelled `crazy' by all the cyberanarchist
>idiots and clueless sympathizers. there are quite a bit of people out
>there who can judge the truth for themselves, independent of the
>black trash they are being pummeled with by saboteurs and agent
>provacateurs.
>
>I have posted all the proof I am going to about N.Szabo being a
>tentacle of t.C. May. When the people who claim I am mistaken come
>out of the sewer some more to prove me wrong, I will rip their own
>lies into shredded pulp, and humiliate them in front of the entire
>world for their lies.
>
>obviously, from your postings, it is not important to you at all.
>you do, however, believe that it is important to make sure that
>I have been discredited.
>
>who out there has an attention span beyond that of a flea? who
>has seen this whole thread and the lies that permeate it?
>
>I am going to SQUISH the tentacles!
Question: has anybody actually had any contact with Detweiler recently?
I know he used to be a rational and respectable Usetter; keeper of
the Privacy FAQ, runner of an autoposter service for other people's
FAQs, etc. I'd like to think this is all somebody's research project
or piece of performance art, but otherwise... it's pretty ugly to
watch this disintegration happen. The deterioration has been
marked even within the last few weeks. The RISKS posting was coherent
enough, and no more paranoid than say, the average talk.politics.guns
poster.
My opinion is just from his language, logic, reaction to other
people - whether his conspiracy theories are true are not is pretty
irrelevant. Multiple identites mapping to one person is hardly
unusual in electronic spaces, but most people regard tracking them
down as a challenge or an entertainment, not as the cause for
desperate rage and paranoia. Cf. the netsport of hunting down
John Palmer identities.
Is he actually a student at Colorado State? If so, and he's genuinely
sending out death threats, the recipients might seriously consider
forwarding them there. Not to get him in trouble, but perhaps to get
someone to look into the situation before this accelerating downward
curve gets where ever it is going. There's plenty of nuts on the net,
but the level of their nuttiness is stable enough. I don't think I've
ever seen someone fall apart like this before.
Of course, maybe it *is* just performance art...
Laura
--
-------------- Laura Burchard / burc...@digex.net ----------------
"It didn't take very much reductio to get right down to absurdium
from where you started."
--Mike Jones, jon...@crd.ge.com
Peter Trei
>I have been posting proof like mad, but the defendants keep running away
>from the courtroom. and you are quite ill informed to comment on this
>matter in any way whatsoever from your pathetic lack of knowledge. those
>who have seen my evidence are being silent. those that know that the
>cyberanarchist slime is hiding in the closet are being quiet. they are
>waiting for the right atmosphere to debate my claims in a scientific
>manner without fear of being labelled `crazy' by all the cyberanarchist
>idiots and clueless sympathizers. there are quite a bit of people out
>there who can judge the truth for themselves, independent of the
>black trash they are being pummeled with by saboteurs and agent
>provacateurs.
>ld23...@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU
Sheesh, The "Silent Majority" rides again!
BTW, your capitalization is getting quite erratic.
just another tentacle,
Peter
Disclaimer: I do not speak for my employer.
Perry E. Metzger
In article <CJ81A...@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> ld23...@dolores.lance.colostate.edu (L. Detweiler) writes:
>I have prevented evidence that the people who claim N.Szabo is real
>are all liars.
"Prevented Evidence" sounds like it.
In the past I posted more than enough evidence for any intelligent
person to find Nick's address and phone number. I posted the town he
lives in, the names of his roommates, everything. Nick got rather mad
at me because he thinks you are a psychotic, and having you able to
find him makes him nervous. I will respect his wishes and not post the
information again. However, it would make any difference. I could post
his fingerprints, CAT scans, and his itinerary for the next six years,
and you would still claim that Nick doesn't exist.
For the rational, I'll simply note that I've had long conversations
face to face with Nick, and am certain that he exists. I'm certain
that anyone who wants to can likely prove that he exists for
themselves -- they can show up at a cypherpunks meeting in the Bay
Area for instance. No need to take my word on faith.
>B.Stewart,T.C.May,G.Dale,P.Metzger, I CHALLENGE YOU TO A DUEL OF THE TRUTH
>but if you hide from the boogeyman, no one can have any fun!
What sort of truth will do for you? Since you won't accept any
evidence no matter how convincing, it seems fairly useless to argue
with you.
>: P.Metzger and T.C May have both posted evidence that they are
>: seperate people.
>idiot, I am not claiming that they are not. I am claiming that they have
>an arsenal of fake identities. do you have any clue what I am talking about
>at all?
I've never posted under a "fake identity". On the other hand, you post
every day as an1...@anon.penet.fi. I can't prove that I don't post
under fake identities, just as you can't prove that you never have
thoughts about white wolves.
In any case, none of your substantive claims ever turn out to be
true. Anyone who wants to can probably manage to track down Nick
Szabo, for instance.
>I have been posting proof like mad,
We know you are mad.
You've posted no evidence. All you do is rant.
>WHEN YOU HAVE SOME EVIDENCE TO REFUTE MY CLAIM, POST IT.
>misinformed speculation, I will not waste my time with.
There is no way to disabuse a paranoid psychotic of his delusions. The
kind thing would be for someone to put you on enough Thorzine that you
are no longer inspired to post long and annoying rants to the net.
--
Perry Metzger pmet...@lehman.com
--
"I can't go out and save every undercapitalized entrepreneur in America."
-- Hillary Clinton, when asked about the impact of her health care
"plan" on small business (Wall Street Journal, 9/24/93, pg A10, col. 3)
Jeremy Anderson
the plot to be twisted beyond recognition, or indeed comprehension. It
compares in recent memory only to Twin Peaks and my dear friend San-Ba
Chen trying to explain her love life to me. Then, the plot snaps around
again:
l>If you haven't noticed, everyone who has claimed that N.Szabo is real
l>are hiding under the bedcovers and have abandoned you. They seem to be
l>afraid of propagating a lie further. Or is it a lie? Please tell me.
l>If Nick is your roommate, why do you fail to vouch for him? is it that
l>you guys live together but actually hate each other's guts? Or that
l>you don't have the slightest clue about who Nick Szabo is, really?
l>That seems awfully suspicious, given that P.Metzger claimed you guys
l>lived together, and that T.C.May says that he is `working' with him,
l>and that B.Stewart says he saw his drivers license at a cypherpunk
l>party. Hmm, very interesting.
l>What is going on here? What is wrong with this picture? What does all
l>this have to do with mail that I have received that is highly
l>incriminating, and suggests you, Mr. Dale, have not a clue about who
l>N.Szabo is, yet he is your roommate? Is this a Web of Lies designed to
l>fool that asshole L.Detweiler, who is so tenaciously attempting to
l>unravel all the lies he has been subject to on the cypherpunks list?
l>That he no longer likes being the mouse in a roomful of vicious cats?
l>Please tell me, Mr. Dale, what view of reality I live in. Am I a
l>deluded fanatic? Or a crushing whistleblower?
Mr. Detweiler, I would claim that you have the brain of a cabbage, but
obviously you've expended a fair quntity of intellect figuring out this
tremendous conspiracy of cryptoanarchists and their devious leaders
attempting to sink you (if they're anarchists, how can they have leaders
anyhow?)
Nick Szabo is a real human being, last I checked. He was a computer
science major at U.W. and later worked at JPL in Pasadena. He shared a
basement apartment with a Tibetan holy man. While he was about as odd
as any other hardcore C-Sci guy I know of, he's a lousy candidate to be
a leader, a tentacle, or any other part of a massive cryptoanarchist
conspiracy.
This won't dissuade you (obviously, I'm just another member of the
conspiracy. My tenous link with Nick proves it for a fact. In fact,
Jeremy Anderson is just an alias! I picked up the driver's license,
credit cards, passport, and personality dossier 8 years ago in Tiajuana
from a shadowy man known only as "rodriguez, with two lower case r's".)
Let's try a different tact.
Yes Detweiler. You have sucessfully exposed the international
cryptoanarchist conspiracy. Unfortunately, our vast experience with
media manipulation and our connections with the highest levels of
government will hamper your ability to make further progress. We are
proud to count as members of our conspiracy such luminaries as Socks
Clinton, Bobby Inman, Connie Chung Yu-Hwa (who while mascarading as a
mild-mannered TV anchor is our connection with the Chinese Kuomintang's
massive intelligence apparatus), and the 23 secret leaders of the
Masons. We've been monitoring your actions for years with bugs,
wiretaps, and secret agents. One night, while you slept, a crack
surgical terrorist team entered your domicile, sedated you heavily, and
planted radio-controlled electrodes in your head. Should you ever get a
positive identification on any of the leaders of our cabal, a radio
signal will be sent causing you to go into a massive seizure, whereupon
the elctrodes will disintegrate, leaving no trace of our work for the
forensics experts to sift through.
The situation really is hopless Detweiler. We can wipe your existence
off the face of the planet any time. While we figure you're too driven
and fanatical to co-opt, we're happy to fight to a draw.
Congratulate yourself. Your superior intellect has exposed more about
the inner workings of our organization (and I use the term loosely) than
we expected any mere mortal to be able to manage. We consider our
protection mechanisms to be strong enough that you won't be able to
cause much damage to our command and control structure. Relax, take the
day to go hiking in the mountains, enjoy life, and know that your
personal desires and plans are safe from interference for now.
Regards,
Jeremy Anderson
Assistant Secretary of Propaganda
United Thought Patrol
P.S. Don't try to archive this message, it's wired with virtual explosives.
--
Jeremy Anderson Freelance programmer and Chinese translator
jer...@cyberspace.com PGP public key available on request
Good cheer and smiles dispensed freely
David Criswell
In article <CJ81A...@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> ld23...@dolores.lance.colostate.edu (L. Detweiler) writes:
[flaming verbiage deleted]
>false. I have prevented evidence that the people who claim N.Szabo is real
>are all liars. I have challenged them to come out from their closet for
>a war of the truth. they know they will lose so they hide behind their
>mommy's apron.
Interesting. My site didn't get this here on n.a.p. Victim of the
cryptoanarchist conspiracy, or am I looking in the wrong place?
>: P.Metzger and T.C May have both posted evidence that they are
>: seperate people.
>
>idiot, I am not claiming that they are not. I am claiming that they have
>an arsenal of fake identities. do you have any clue what I am talking about
>at all?
okay, I misunderstood this. But how would one prove this to be false?
>I have been posting proof like mad,
Again this didn't get here, and I'd really like to see it. This
doesn't seem to be limited to my site as nobody else seems to
have seen it either.
[deleted flamage]
>WHEN YOU HAVE SOME EVIDENCE TO REFUTE MY CLAIM, POST IT.
>misinformed speculation, I will not waste my time with.
Like I pointed out above, it's impossible to prove that someone
DOESN'T have an arsenal of fake identities - I don't believe
I could prove that about myself and at least I know I don't have any.
>: >(BTW, I would appreciate if you would send me that
>: >post, where supposed information was given on the existence of
>: >accused tentacles).
>
>: Sorry, I don't have this anymore. PM, could you repost this?
>
>you stupid idiot! You are trying my patience beyond even Christ's!
>how can you comment on something you know nothing
>about! you claim that you have been following this but
>are not listening to anything important.
Calm down. Like I said, I didn't see the purported proof and I
_have_ been looking for it. Apparently I'm not the only one for
whom this is true.
>ONCE AGAIN FOR EVERYONE WHO WASN'T LISTENTING
>P.Metzger posted a cliam that N.Szabo lived with G.Dale. THIS IS
>A LIE. N.Szabo sz...@netcom.com is a TENTACLE of T.C.MAY
>
>P.Metzger refuses to come out and post any more because he
>KNOWS IT IS A LIE he KNOWS THAT HE MADE A FATAL MISTAKE
He, um, did. That one got here okay. And, I have no idea
whether N.Szabo lives with G.Dale.
BTW, any relation to Robert McElwaine?
>yet, you believe that every single email address maps to a unique
>human being. what kind of silly hypocrite are you?
No. Where did I say I believe a silly thing like that?
Certainly anon addresses don't, and it would be extremely
trivial to get multiple accounts from commercial service
providers. I'm probably entitled to a free one from my
university as well. Many people have multiple accounts.
>: You really don't know how _important_ this is to me.
>
>obviously, from your postings, it is not important to you at all.
>you do, however, believe that it is important to make sure that
>I have been discredited.
I believe no such thing. I believe that the range of possibilities
of what's going on here to be one of three things:
1) You're right; you've posted proof of these assertions; and
somebody removed these proofs from the net.
2) You're deluded or lying; no proofs have been posted.
3) They've been posted someplace where I and apparently
many others don't see them.
I'm hoping for #3. The fact that I safely received both of your
replies is starting to make #1 look highly unlikely.
>I am going to SQUISH the tentacles!
Whatever. By the way, your last reply was much more lucid than
this one.
Dave Criswell
Not Oracle Corporation
dcri...@oracle.com
Bill Stewart +1-908-949-0705
In article <CJ81A...@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> ld23...@dolores.lance.colostate.edu (L. Detweiler) writes:
>are all liars.
>B.Stewart,T.C.May,G.Dale,P.Metzger, I CHALLENGE YOU TO A DUEL OF THE TRUTH
>but if you hide from the boogeyman, no one can have any fun!
evidence no matter how convincing, it seems fairly useless to argue with you.
I've personally met people claiming to be Tim May, Perry Metzger, Nick Szabo,
Jamie Dinkelacker, John Gilmore, Eric Hughes, and seen driver's
licenses from all except John and Perry, both of whom I've known for
several years. Yes, it's possible that the people I've met have been
imposters with good fake id, or that I've been confused by all those
drugs I don't remember taking in the 60s (those of you who knew me in
the 60s may laugh now, I was more straightlaced than Detweiler),
or maybe one of us is just a solipsist imagining all of this.
Maybe you're just reading all this on an improved 3-D video version of Eliza;
if you want to contend that there's no real way I can convince you.
>: P.Metzger and T.C May have both posted evidence that they are
>: seperate people.
>idiot, I am not claiming that they are not. I am claiming that they have
>an arsenal of fake identities. do you have any clue what I am talking about
>at all?
Yes, and for all the names you've identified as fake identities of Tim May,
I've seen physically distinct bodies (except possible G.Dale,
don't remember if I've met him). Maybe my Hindu friends are right and
All is One, so they're not really different, but I doubt it.
Maybe they also post under other false identities, and they're using
you as a shill to prove to all of us that there isn't really a conspiracy
(just shows how clever they are, as the Birchers would say).
And maybe I'm just singing to my cat.
But your credibility level keeps going down.
There is no way to disabuse a paranoid psychotic of his delusions. The
kind thing would be for someone to put you on enough Thorzine that you
are no longer inspired to post long and annoying rants to the net.
Thorazine's fairly dangerous stuff; there are more modern drugs that
do less long-term damage.
Bill Stewart
--
# Bill Stewart NCR Corp, 6870 Koll Center Pkwy, Pleasanton CA 94566
# Email: bill.s...@pleasantonca.ncr.com bills...@attmail.com
# Phone: 1-510-484-6204 Beeper: 1-510-224-7043
# If people were required to *know* all the laws, and not just to obey them,
# the government would be overthrown tomorrow! (From a button by Nancy Lebovitz)
peter da silva
What I want to know is why Mr. Detweiler is so het up about this. Fake
identities in the real world are fairly easy to set up of you want to
take the risk. I'm sure there are any number of Loompanics books on the
subject. Just because COMPUTERS are involved this is suddenly a crisis?
George Herbert
for libel, for Detwiler's claiming that Mr. Szabo is nonexistent,
part of a plot to overthrow the government, etc. I'm sure Mr. Detwiler
would love to have to fly out to the trial in San Jose to see
how real Nick is...
--
george william herbert g...@crl.com
Work: System / Net Administrator, CR Labs Home/Play: Retro Aerospace
KD6WUQ g...@crl.com g...@soda.berkeley.edu gwh@{isu,exec}.isunet.edu
deltaV = g * Isp * ln(Mr) ... it's not just a good idea, it's the Law
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
L. Detweiler
in a little of the L.Detweiler==Dangerous Psychotic stuff in the middle.
but still, ya gotta love him.
Perry E. Metzger (pmet...@snark.lehman.com) wrote:
: In the past I posted more than enough evidence for any intelligent
: person to find Nick's address and phone number. I posted the town he
: lives in, the names of his roommates, everything. Nick got rather mad
: at me because he thinks you are a psychotic, and having you able to
: find him makes him nervous. I will respect his wishes and not post the
: information again. However, it would make any difference. I could post
: his fingerprints, CAT scans, and his itinerary for the next six years,
: and you would still claim that Nick doesn't exist.
Your claims are worthless trash. You cypherpunks believe that it is the
truth to claim that anyone is real. e.g., I post through any account as
any identity, and I vouch for those identities: `I hereby assert that
Jim Riverman is a True Name. The person that posts as Jim Riverman exists!'
nothing but scurrilous trash and you all know it.
Here is the real story. For some reason all the cypherpunks agreed that
N.Szabo would live at Geoff Dale's house. You claimed that, did you not,
Mr. Metzger? Geoff is pl...@netcom.com. He claimed Szabo was real.
But pl...@netcom.com is hiding in his closet right now.
he came out for a few moments to whine and cry
when I asked him to confirm that N.Szabo was his roommate. But he backed
down. why do you think that is? would you like me to post that message to
remind everyone? does Szabo live with G.Dale or not? Get your story straight.
and get G.Dale to come out and say so himself. I am not going to counter
your lies until the whole world agrees that you have claimed them. I can't
even get anyone to remember that P.Metzger claimed that G.Dale and N.SZabo
were roommates. It is a conspiracy of idiots, blind, and the brainwashed.
: For the rational, I'll simply note that I've had long conversations
: face to face with Nick, and am certain that he exists. I'm certain
: that anyone who wants to can likely prove that he exists for
: themselves -- they can show up at a cypherpunks meeting in the Bay
: Area for instance. No need to take my word on faith.
are you certain that he is who he claims to be? I can go to any stupid
cypherpunk party and be any netcom.com address I want to be. Sure! I am
sa...@netcom.com. I can talk about all my posts. You've seen me out there
on the net, haven't you! how could I be a tentacle? I am standing right
before you!
: What sort of truth will do for you? Since you won't accept any
: evidence no matter how convincing, it seems fairly useless to argue
: with you.
the truth is the truth. if the people who claim Szabo is real, B.Stewart,
G.Dale, P.Metzger and T.C.May agree where he lives or works, then I will
nail you all.
: I've never posted under a "fake identity". On the other hand, you post
: every day as an1...@anon.penet.fi. I can't prove that I don't post
: under fake identities, just as you can't prove that you never have
: thoughts about white wolves.
your claims are nothing but trash. what is a fake identity, under your terms?
E.Hughes, the most fervid and fanatic proponent of anonymity, has claimed
`I have never posted under any other name than E.Hughes.' this is nothing
but cyberanarchist trash, sludge. N.Szabo told me in the newsgroups, `I have
never pseudospoofed.' he is nothing but a slimy liar! he admitted to it
in public cypherpunks postings! I pulled him apart in RISKS 15.27 and he
is afraid to show his face anywhere.
: In any case, none of your substantive claims ever turn out to be
: true. Anyone who wants to can probably manage to track down Nick
: Szabo, for instance.
funny, I sure haven't been able to, despite my best efforts. but that's
because I'm a dangerous psychotic out to get people, and they run when
they see me coming.
: There is no way to disabuse a paranoid psychotic of his delusions. The
: kind thing would be for someone to put you on enough Thorzine that you
: are no longer inspired to post long and annoying rants to the net.
you can post the truth, or lies. if you post the latter, I will rip you
apart in front of the whole world.
I continue to wait. did you, or did you not, claim that N.Szabo lived with
G.Dale? who here heard Mr. Metzger claim that? How many black lurkers are
out there, watching this thread with fascination, and don't know that I'm
talking to YOU! Mr. Pit Bull, tell me now! whose privacy am I invading if
you tell me N.Szabo and G.Dale live together? you don't have to even tell
me the address. C'mon sweetheart, just say it. You said it once, but you
seem frightened to repeat it.
nice of you to pop out for some fun in the sun, tho. hope you will stick
around for the rest of the party.
--
L. Detweiler
: Like I pointed out above, it's impossible to prove that someone
: DOESN'T have an arsenal of fake identities - I don't believe
: I could prove that about myself and at least I know I don't have any.
no, but it is possible to prove that people are lying. when G.Dale comes
out of the closet, I will attempt to prove it. but no one noticed that
he backed down and ran away crying when all I did was ask him to confirm
the Metzger claim that N.Szabo is his roommate. and not even Metzger will
reiterate that claim.
: Calm down. Like I said, I didn't see the purported proof and I
: _have_ been looking for it. Apparently I'm not the only one for
: whom this is true.
just send mail to pl...@netcom.com and ask him to confirm that G.Dale is
his roommate, post it, and I will do the rest of the work. think you
can manage?
: He, um, did. That one got here okay. And, I have no idea
: whether N.Szabo lives with G.Dale.
but someone claimed it. I have it in a quoted post. and they are slinking
away from what appears to be their lie.
p.s. I am really losing interest in the Szabo tentacle. how long does it
take before they die, I mean really die? Szabo at least has the sense not
to post out here.
p.p.s. the problem is, the whole world is too clueless to recognize evasion
when they see it. all the people I have challenged have posted to this thread
before, but are hiding, Szabo the most of all. in cyberspace, no one knows
if you are there or if you aren't.
--
L. Detweiler
just tell me that N.Szabo lives with G.Dale, like Mr. Metzger claimed, I would
be delighted.
: Yes, and for all the names you've identified as fake identities of Tim May,
: I've seen physically distinct bodies (except possible G.Dale,
: don't remember if I've met him).
gosh, now you guys are going to make G.DAle be the fall guy, huh? pretend
that Szabo is *his* tentacle and you didn't know anything about his
deceptions? you guys are nothing but a bunch of slime. you would stab your
own mothers in the back.
: But your credibility level keeps going down.
obviously, I don't give a damn, do I? somehow my life has become far more
exciting now that I have so many enemies and have discovered all their
blackest secrets.
: Thorazine's fairly dangerous stuff; there are more modern drugs that
: do less long-term damage.
let me know what you recommend.
--