What advice would you give a tech-averse older couple for their 1st smartphone?

[Arlen Holder]

What purposefully helpful advice would you give a tech-averse older couple
for their 1st smartphone?

I am being asked for advice for a budget smartphone by an old couple in
their seventies who are on the old LG 240 flip phones on Verizon back east.

They claim no other carrier has the coverage they need (so I'm not gonna
argue that point because I tried and they are adamant), so they're gonna
have to get a "Verizon" compatible smartphone.

The problem is they're getting creamed by Verizon, apparently on unexpected
"data" (to the tune of more than the cost of the base service), where I had
to explain to them that the MMS messages they _receive_ cost them "data"
dollars.

They are strongly considering updating their phones to smartphones where
Verizon has a good starter plan for them, but it has to be using a
smartphone.

That's the business constraint, where both are as tech averse as you can
imagine - and where we have to take into account that their every decision
is made on the basis of fear.

The first starter phone issue, always, is the ecosystem, of course.

I'm trying to advise _them_ to pick either iOS or Android (they're both on
the same Windows computer and one has an iPad that was gifted to them).

My main summary to them is that for a budget iOS phone, I think there is
only one, which is the 2nd-gen 2020 iPhone SE (AFAIK).
o iPhone SE (about $200 on sale)

For Android, there are too many to choose from so I had to cull the list
down to just three, which, IMHO, were:
o Google Pixel 3a
o Samsung Galaxy S10e
o Almost any Motorola G series phone, such as the G7 series.

As for how to advise them on iOS versus Android, that's wholly up to them.

They did ask "what's the difference", which I gave them a short summary,
but it's really hard, particularly for people who make decisions based on
fear, to point them in either direction (since both have issues but both do
the same things, for a beginner, in the end tally).

What other phones or Verizon plans do you know of for budget conscious
noobs who are tech averse that you might suggest they consider?
--
Together we give better advice than any one of us all alone can provide.

[123456789]

Arlen Holder wrote:

> I am being asked for advice for a budget smartphone by an old

> couple... The problem is they're getting creamed by Verizon,

> apparently on unexpected "data" (to the tune of more than the cost
> of the base service)

They should be golden with data in a few days. Verizon texted me that
it's giving away a free (extra) 15G of data for the month of May.
Something to do with the virus thing. It's certainly going to be a
tremendous help to me while my phone sits around the house in quarantine
slurping my WiFi... :-/

[Ned Latham]

Verizon aren't alone in that. They're trying to look like good corporate
citizens, I suppose. One thing you can take for granted is that free and
low-cost data won't remain for long.

Temporary shit like that shouldn't be part of anyone's equation.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Ned Latham <nedl...@woden.valhalla.oz> wrote :

> Temporary shit like that shouldn't be part of anyone's equation.

Hi Ned Latham,

Thanks for being purposefully helpful where I hadn't seen the post you're
responding to, but I agree with you that temporary deals aren't even part
of the equation.

I'm on T-Mobile, for example, who gives me a few gigabytes per line of data
"free", they say, but for Covid19, they say it's unlimited (while I'm
almost completely on Wi-Fi given I'm home so it's no skin off their back).

I generally buy my phones outright, where my last phone was a $130 LG Stylo
3 Plus bought at the Costco kiosk which simply required me to activate it
on T-Mobile which was already my carrier - and they unlocked it after two
months.

Similar with my current $100 Moto G7 which I got from Google where I had to
be on Google Fi for a day or so, where I only had the Google Fi SIM card in
the phone for about a day as I dropped the $20/month Google Fi plan and
there were no penalties.

The problem is I don't know what works with Verizon.

The couple sent me this link but I'm not sure if this phone will work on
Verizon since it's by "Xfinity mobile", whatever (whomever) that is...
<https://www.xfinity.com/mobile/shop?category=device&brand=apple>

I also know of a company called "Visible" that has a good price for an
iPhone SE but I don't know how that works with the Verizon coverage:
o Current Android & iOS smartphones on sale now for less than $250
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/p2s-rDt_2FQ>

I also need help to accurately summarize iOS versus Android at the budget
phone level for these people as they're not technical in the least and
they're afraid of everything so they want me to do the thinking for them.

But it's hard for me to put myself in their shoes, as I own both iOS and
Android but I use them vastly differently than they would use them.

Any help in summarizing the tradeoffs for budget noobs would be useful.
--
It's harder than you think to summarize iOS vs Android to fearful people.

[Ned Latham]

Arlen Holder wrote:
> In response to what Ned Latham <nedl...@woden.valhalla.oz> wrote :
>>
>> Temporary shit like that shouldn't be part of anyone's equation.
>
> Hi Ned Latham,
>
> Thanks for being purposefully helpful where I hadn't seen the post you're
> responding to, but I agree with you that temporary deals aren't even part
> of the equation.

Hi, Arlen.

Sad to say I know nothing of which 'phones work with Verizon. Hopefully
someone else in here can help.

Good luck.

Ned

[sms]

On 4/25/2020 2:49 AM, Ned Latham wrote:
> Arlen Holder wrote:
>> In response to what Ned Latham <nedl...@woden.valhalla.oz> wrote :
>>>
>>> Temporary shit like that shouldn't be part of anyone's equation.
>>
>> Hi Ned Latham,
>>
>> Thanks for being purposefully helpful where I hadn't seen the post you're
>> responding to, but I agree with you that temporary deals aren't even part
>> of the equation.
>
> Hi, Arlen.
>
> Sad to say I know nothing of which 'phones work with Verizon. Hopefully
> someone else in here can help.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Ned

I'd switch them to Total Wireless, which is on Verizon's network. There
are many decent budget phones available for $70-150, both iOS and
Android. They'd pay $57 per month for two lines with unlimited data
(30GB shared of high-speed data).

If they are in the Bay Area then they probably don't want to leave Verizon.

[sms]

BTW, Total Wireless has a 25% off coupon code right now so that makes
the phones even less. I.e. an LG Stylo 5 is $129.99 - 32.50 = $97.49.

How much are they paying now for native Verizon service for two lines?

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Ned Latham <nedl...@woden.valhalla.oz> wrote :

> Sad to say I know nothing of which 'phones work with Verizon. Hopefully
> someone else in here can help.

Hi Ned Latham,

Me neither on the Verizon particulars, although I bought a Moto G7 that had
to have Google Fi to get the discount, and it worked just fine on T-Mobile
since that's kind of sort of the same deal, I think.

In the case of the Moto G7, Google allowed me to cancel at any time sans
penalty, so I did (after confirming it with them before I purchased that I
would do that).

But I think this couple wouldn't want the complexity of that, and, this
deal seems to require more of a commitment.

While it's relatively easy to select a handful of budget phones for them:
o iPhone SE
o Samsung S103
o Pixel 3a
o Moto G series

What's not easy is explaining to them the difference between iOS & Android
so that they can make an informed choice.

If I tell them the truth about either, it scares them too much.
--
It's harder than you think to summarize iOS vs Android for scared people.

[Ned Latham]

Arlen Holder wrote:

----snip----

> What's not easy is explaining to them the difference between iOS & Android
> so that they can make an informed choice.
>
> If I tell them the truth about either, it scares them too much.

I understand their feeling. Both systems are intrusive and unintuitive.

Android is based on the open-source OS Linux; AFAIK, iOS is wholly
proprietary. Other than that, opinion and feeling are all we have,
I think. Most of us, anyway.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Ned Latham <nedl...@woden.valhalla.oz> wrote :

Hi Ned Latham,

Thanks for understanding that it's not easy to explain to someone who is
not in the least technical and who is scared about everything, the answer
to the question of "*Should I get an iOS or Android?*" budget smartphone.

The problem is that if I simplify it down to the level which is almost pure
bullshit (i.e., what the MARKETING people spout), it would be easy:
a. iOS is easier, safer, and yet, twice as expensive overall.
b. Android is harder, less safe, and yet, half as expensive overall.

Notice the dilemma?
A. Not only is that "Marketing" summary highly inaccurate...
B. Even if it was accurate, there's a gotcha on both sides!

1. They're budget sensitive
2. They're complex averse

If they go with iOS, they'll likely like the ecosystem simplicity, but...
o They'll pay more for the ecosystem in almost every way
a. More for apps
b. More for storage
c. More for accessories
d. More for repairs
etc.

If they go with Android, they'll like the performance & versatility, but...
o They might not get the simplicity they so very much desire.
a. Less for apps
b. Less for storage
c. Less for accessories
d. Less for repairs
etc.

Worse, if they "upgrade", they instantly lose the benefit they have today
of the start phone prices being "about equal" between these two ecysystems:

o Current Android & iOS smartphones on sale now for less than $250
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/p2s-rDt_2FQ>

If I tell them the truth, their eyes glaze over within 30 seconds, so to
speak (although this is all done over the phone as they're "back east").
--
It's not easy when someone wants' to save money & to obtain simplicity
(except if you're MARKETING - and then you don't care about the truth).

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote :

>> I'd switch them to Total Wireless, which is on Verizon's network. There
>> are many decent budget phones available for $70-150, both iOS and
>> Android. They'd pay $57 per month for two lines with unlimited data
>> (30GB shared of high-speed data).
>>
>> If they are in the Bay Area then they probably don't want to leave Verizon.
>
> BTW, Total Wireless has a 25% off coupon code right now so that makes
> the phones even less. I.e. an LG Stylo 5 is $129.99 - 32.50 = $97.49.
>
> How much are they paying now for native Verizon service for two lines?

Hi Steve,
<https://i.postimg.cc/RZYSJwJL/visible05.jpg>
Where it popped up the 25% coupon when I went to their web pages.

Thanks for your advice which will not only help this couple but anyone who
reads this thread who is interested in a "budget" smartphone decision.
o Phones <https://shop.totalwireless.com/shop/en/totalwireless/phones>
o Plans <https://www.totalwireless.com/serviceplan>

This couple is "back east", so they're not in the Silicon Valley like we
are, and they're absolutely adamant that Verizon coverage is vastly better
than T-Mobile or the other carriers.

So it's good that this "Total Wireless" idea exists which uses the same
cellular network as Verizon, as I presume that means the coverage is
exactly the same, is that right?
<https://locations.totalwireless.com>

(As an aside, I use T-Mobile with "free roaming", where I "think" that
gives me the combined coverage - but I don't know that to be a fact.)

Googling, there are a few "total wireless vs verizon" threads:
<https://duckduckgo.com/?q=total+wireless+versus+verizon>
Where here's one prepaid summary (which I don't know how accurate it is):
<https://winceller.com/total-wireless-vs-verizon/>

I think this couple wants to "play it safe" by sticking with Verizon, and
they'll likely do the 24/month installment for the phone; but if the plans
are cheaper on Total Wireless and if it uses the same antennas, I can maybe
convince them to move.
--
Everyone helping everyone else is what Usenet has always been best for.

[Your Name]

My advice to the "old couple" is to find someone with an actual brain
to ask, rather than relying on a braindead, know-nothing, anti-Apple
troll like 'Arlen Holder' ... or at the very least they should do the
exact opposite to whatever that moronic imbecile tells them to do.

[Hawk]

On 4/25/2020 1:59 AM, 123456789 wrote:
Verizon texted me that
> it's giving away a free (extra) 15G of data for the month of May.
> Something to do with the virus thing. It's certainly going to be a
> tremendous help to me while my phone sits around the house in quarantine
> slurping my WiFi... :-/
>
>

I couldn't help but roll my eyes at this offer thinking the same thing.
Seriously Verizon? Most are in homes with WiFi and they want to appear
the good guys.

[sms]

Actually I've been using my LTE data a lot more at home now. With the
Shelter-In-Place, and so many people using a lot of bandwidth from their
ISP, sometimes it's a lot faster to just use LTE data.

[123456789]

sms wrote:

> Hawk wrote:
> > 123456789 wrote:

>>>Verizon texted me that
>>> it's giving away a free (extra) 15G of data for the month of May.
>>> Something to do with the virus thing. It's certainly going to be a
>>> tremendous help to me while my phone sits around the house in
quarantine
>>> slurping my WiFi... :-/

> > I couldn't help but roll my eyes at this offer thinking the same
thing.
> > Seriously Verizon? Most are in homes with WiFi and they want to
appear
> > the good guys.

> Actually I've been using my LTE data a lot more at home now. With
the
> Shelter-In-Place, and so many people using a lot of bandwidth from
their

> ISP. Sometimes it's a lot faster to just use LTE data

Depends on the plans. With me it's 17G for the phone vs 1T for the
ISP. No contest there. And even if one has unlimited phone, many get
slowed after an unannounced (20G?) cap. Further, my ISP actually
doubled my speed for the crisis period though so far for my use I
have noticed no difference in service. But as always YMMV...

[s|b]

On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 05:18:30 +0100, Arlen Holder wrote:

> What purposefully helpful advice would you give a tech-averse older couple
> for their 1st smartphone?

Don't buy a smartphone?

--
s|b

[Robert Baer]

Tell them to get a flip-phone - acts like a dial-up only; no
internet,no texting: KISS.

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE:

They're still looking at Verizon plans and choices of phones.
(Bear in mind they have an iPad and a Windows computer which they share).
(They have zero technical acumen, both of them, and they're scared of
everything, and I mean everything).

They keep asking me about the highest end phones though, which I do not
recommend for a cost-conscious beginner. I just don't.

For example, this video they sent me to review (which they sent from their
iPad, interestingly)...
<https://youtu.be/8tQSjEmP0go>

I reviewed it for them, but it was a waste of my time for this couple but I
post it here for others who are in a different budget range to benefit
from:

He starts with the Samsung S20 Ultra, which is huge and over $1,000.
<https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s20_ultra-10084.php>

There's nothing wrong with that phone, e.g., it has a 5,000 Ah battery
(same as that Moto G Power), which is a huge battery (mine is only 3,000 Ah
and that's big enough and the 2020 SE is 1,821 which is too small).

But I think it's too much phone for both of you in terms of cost & size.
It's not a starter phone.

Then he moves to the OnePlus8Pro at time 279 seconds which is $900 and just
as huge:
<https://youtu.be/8tQSjEmP0go?t=279>

Here is the spec for that One Plus 8 Pro
<https://www.gsmarena.com/oneplus_8_pro-9919.php>

Here they are side by side by specifications:
<https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=10084&idPhone2=9919>

These are HIGH END phones.
My advice? Stay away from them.

You'll never be unhappy - as they're "flagship" phones - but it's like
buying a Porsche for your first car.

Stick to the Toyota Camry is my advice.

If you want to go for an iPhone, the only one in your price range is the
2020 SE.
For Android, there are a bunch (always a new one on sale and new ones
offered all the time).

The Android choices for good budget phones, AFAIK, at least include...
a. Samsung S10e
b. Google Pixel 3a
c. Almost any Motorola G series phone (mine is the Moto G7 but they have
new ones all the time).
--
Each thread to Usenet should strive to add value to our tribal knowledge.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Arlen Holder <arlen...@anyexample.com> wrote :

> Stick to the Toyota Camry is my advice.

To the point of this thread, and my advice for this couple...
o I sent them this "advice" for choosing their first budget phone.

I told them they should be seeking out two types of videos for now:
A: How to choose between iOS & Android
B: What is the best budget smartphone

For example:
a. <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+to+choose+between+android+%26+ios+for+my+first+smartphone>
b. <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=best+budget+smartphone>

Here's a review of just the FIRST hit of each if you're interested:
A: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8VF3nb8Z4M>
B: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uulnbVqyc8A>

For the first one, I'd skip all the history to start at time point 330:
<https://youtu.be/c8VF3nb8Z4M?t=330>
Where he says...
o 1/5 of people have iOS, 4/5ths have Android
o iPhone is very expensive
o iPhone used to have the best phones but now Android tops the lists
o Android gives choices in apps, iOS gives quality apps
o However he says nobody ever said Apple Maps is better than Google Maps
o He says Android usually has superior batteries
o He says Apple offers more updates
o He says the iPhone holds its value better

Hmmmmmm.... that kind of sucked; maybe we need to pick a _better_ review?
o *Does anyone here have a good pointer for the iOS vs Android question?*

For the second video, you have to see it backward to get to their best to
worst choices as the guy just kind of skims over marketing brouhaha...
o #1 Google Pixel 3a
o #2 Samsung Galaxy A50
o #3 Xiaomi Redmi Note 8 Pro
o #4 Moto G7
o #5 Nokia 7.2
o #6 Sony Xperia 10
o #7 LG Stylo 5

In summary, my advice, so far, to this couple is:
1. First decide whether you want iOS or Android ecosystems
2. Then find a budget phone in each category to buy two of

The good news is this is a common question I would think, to flesh out.

So that's why others here can pitch in, particularly for a good video that
really covers the difference between the Apple & Android ecosystems to help
noobs make choices.
--
Every thread on Usenet should increase our overall group tribal knowledge.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-04-24 9:18 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> What purposefully helpful advice would you give a tech-averse older couple
> for their 1st smartphone?

Best piece of advice I can give them?

Don't take advice from you.

Next best?

Get an iPhone SE and be very content.

:-)