Phone suggestions wanted.

[XS11E]

I currently have an LG V20 and it's getting a bit long in the tooth, I
notice batteries don't seem to hold a charge as long as they did as
they're over 2 years old and replacement batteries seem to be equally
old.

So what should I get? It's gotta be Android, gotta have an SD card
slot, I'd like a replaceable battery (I know, almost impossible to
find.) I'd like a screen as large as the V20 but it doesn't need to be
larger. I'd like to stay with Verizon as with all the discount I've
accumulated it's the least expensive for my needs (and yes, I did do a
thourough investigation!) I'd like a bootloader that can be unlocked
and a phone that can be rooted but I can live w/o that if I must.

I'd like it to be affordable, don't need a $1,000 phone! My budget is
around $9.95 but I realize that's not going to happen...

Any ideas?

TIA.

--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

[The Real Bev]

On 06/05/2019 10:55 AM, XS11E wrote:
> I currently have an LG V20 and it's getting a bit long in the tooth, I
> notice batteries don't seem to hold a charge as long as they did as
> they're over 2 years old and replacement batteries seem to be equally
> old.
>
> So what should I get? It's gotta be Android, gotta have an SD card
> slot, I'd like a replaceable battery (I know, almost impossible to
> find.) I'd like a screen as large as the V20 but it doesn't need to be
> larger. I'd like to stay with Verizon as with all the discount I've
> accumulated it's the least expensive for my needs (and yes, I did do a
> thourough investigation!) I'd like a bootloader that can be unlocked
> and a phone that can be rooted but I can live w/o that if I must.
>
> I'd like it to be affordable, don't need a $1,000 phone! My budget is
> around $9.95 but I realize that's not going to happen...
>
> Any ideas?

I've been happy with the Motorola Moto G series (first one was G2, now I
have G5+). Battery isn't replaceable and I'd like a sharper and
closer-focusing camera, but otherwise it's an excellent and
reasonably-priced phone. The good part is that the only non-removable
bloatware is provided by Google (NO, I don't need a Hindi character set
or Google Music or Google Docs or...) and really isn't all that big a
nuisance.

BIGGEST nuisance is the constant nag to upgrade from Android 7.x to 8.x.
NOT going to do it unless I actually have to -- I've expressed my
distaste for reconfiguring over 100 apps numerous time here. If I
didn't have to do that, I'd certainly upgrade. I think the newest ones
(G7?) come with Android 9.


--
Cheers, Bev
"Is there any way I can help without actually getting involved?"
-- Jennifer, WKRP

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Wed, 5 Jun 2019 11:28:50 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:

> BIGGEST nuisance is the constant nag to upgrade from Android 7.x to 8.x.

I've had a half dozen Android phones, where, just like on iOS, there's
almost nothing I've ever seen in the newer OS's that is worth the update.

There 'might' be something useful in the newest updates; but I think most
people just update because they're mindless robots, more so than they even
know what's in the update.

For an example, who knew that Apple was secretly throttling phones in an
update, as one of the worst examples possible. While Android doesn't seem
to do such horrid things to customers, I think there was an update about a
year and a half ago, on Android, where Google was tracking by accident (or
so they said).

The point is that updates seem to be something the clueless want the most,
IMHO, as there's nothing wrong with your "current" version in most cases.

A lot of people just want to _feel_ safe, which an update, admittedly, does
for them, even if that update doesn't actually deliver on that promise.

[tb]

On 6/5/2019 at 12:55:07 PM XS11E wrote:

> I currently have an LG V20 and it's getting a bit long in the tooth,
> I notice batteries don't seem to hold a charge as long as they did as
> they're over 2 years old and replacement batteries seem to be equally
> old.
>
> So what should I get? It's gotta be Android, gotta have an SD card
> slot, I'd like a replaceable battery (I know, almost impossible to
> find.) I'd like a screen as large as the V20 but it doesn't need to
> be larger. I'd like to stay with Verizon as with all the discount
> I've accumulated it's the least expensive for my needs (and yes, I
> did do a thourough investigation!) I'd like a bootloader that can be
> unlocked and a phone that can be rooted but I can live w/o that if I
> must.
>
> I'd like it to be affordable, don't need a $1,000 phone! My budget
> is around $9.95 but I realize that's not going to happen...
>
> Any ideas?
>
> TIA.

See if this link gets you started with your search:
<https://www.productchart.com/smartphones/sets/3>

--
tb

[Johnny]

On Wed, 05 Jun 2019 10:55:07 -0700
XS11E <xs1...@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote:

> I currently have an LG V20 and it's getting a bit long in the tooth,
> I notice batteries don't seem to hold a charge as long as they did as
> they're over 2 years old and replacement batteries seem to be equally
> old.
>
> So what should I get? It's gotta be Android, gotta have an SD card
> slot, I'd like a replaceable battery (I know, almost impossible to
> find.) I'd like a screen as large as the V20 but it doesn't need to
> be larger. I'd like to stay with Verizon as with all the discount
> I've accumulated it's the least expensive for my needs (and yes, I
> did do a thourough investigation!) I'd like a bootloader that can be
> unlocked and a phone that can be rooted but I can live w/o that if I
> must.
>
> I'd like it to be affordable, don't need a $1,000 phone! My budget
> is around $9.95 but I realize that's not going to happen...
>
> Any ideas?
>
> TIA.
>

Look at the last two phones at the bottom of the page.

https://www.consumercellular.com/Products?iphone&android

I have the Motorola that's $80.00.

[VanguardLH]

XS11E wrote:

> I currently have an LG V20 and it's getting a bit long in the tooth, ...

LG V20 was unveiled in September 6, 2016, or 2.67 years ago. That's
"long in the tooth"? What does it not do now that you must pay for a
whole new expensive phone to get?

> replacement batteries seem to be equally old.

How do you know how old are the batteries? There is no manufacture date
printed on the battery itself. Most come delivered in just a clear wrap
with a self-stick flap. Only if you get it boxed might there be a
manufacture date on the box.

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_store_batteries
"Lithium batteries can be stored for 10 years with very little loss in
capacity. "There is virtually no self-discharge below about 4.0V."

If the internal voltage drops before some minimal threshold, logic
inside the battery will permanently disable the battery. In use (not
when stored), a lithium battery under recommended environmental
conditions will last about 2-3 years. I replaced mine before that,
usually because they've become pregnant from constantly sitting on the
charger (only unplugged when I take the phone with me from home). They
also have a limited number of recharge cycles, so even if I didn't leave
it on the charger then the battery eventually dies, anyway. After all,
these are products based on chemistry. I keep a spare battery. I've
used those when they're over 2 years old. When I replace the battery in
the phone, I buy another spare which will last more than long enough in
the drawer until the current battery dies.

Batteries ALWAYS DIE. They're chemical. Not a sufficient reason to
discard the product that uses batteries. I don't buy a new car because
the lead-acid battery was too weak or died after 5-6 years, but then I
hold onto my cars for decades. The average lifespan for smartphones is
3 years - not because a new phone is actually needed, but because
consumers are pressured by the "new is better" sales mantra to get
consumers to buy more and keep buying. Replacing a usable smartphone
with a new one at $400, or more, just because a $10 battery needs
replacing is like buying a new car because the ashtrays are full.

Looks like you're trying to find some excuse to get a new phone.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Wed, 5 Jun 2019 15:49:59 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

> Looks like you're trying to find some excuse to get a new phone.

In keeping with what VanguardLH wrote, my current Costco GSM $130 LG Stylo
3 Plus is about the same age, and its 3200mAh BL-44E1F battery is doing
just fine as far as I can tell.

If I needed a new battery, I'd just buy a new battery since it's easily
removable, and that would get me back the original life if that's what the
OP wants.

I'm _very_ happy with this Costco 8-core 32GB phone, with its 32GB external
flash card, and big phablet shape & size where, if I were unhappy with it,
I'd be sure to let you know.

Since my T-Mobile phone is GSM, it won't work for Verizon I don't think,
but Costco sells the same kinds of phones all the time, assuming the OP is
in the uSA, so anything like my $130 phone should work fine for the OP.
<https://mobility.costco.ca/en/mobile-phones-and-smartphones/>

[XS11E]

"tb" <nos...@example.invalid> wrote:

> On 6/5/2019 at 12:55:07 PM XS11E wrote:
>
>> I currently have an LG V20

> See if this link gets you started with your search:
> <https://www.productchart.com/smartphones/sets/3>

Great chart, unfortunately the only phone that meets my specs is the LG
V20 :-(

[XS11E]

VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote:

> XS11E wrote:
>
>> I currently have an LG V20 and it's getting a bit long in the
>> tooth, ...
>
> LG V20 was unveiled in September 6, 2016, or 2.67 years ago.
> That's "long in the tooth"? What does it not do now that you must
> pay for a whole new expensive phone to get?
>
>> replacement batteries seem to be equally old.
>
> How do you know how old are the batteries? There is no
> manufacture date printed on the battery itself

AFAIK every battery of every kind has a date code and Google will
show you where it is and how to read it.

> Batteries ALWAYS DIE. They're chemical. Not a sufficient reason
> to discard the product that uses batteries.

It is on a cell phone, some older ones use no longer available
batteries and on some newer phones with non-replaceable batteries the
cost of replacing the battery is higher than the value of the phone,
even if you do it yourself.

> I don't buy a new car because the lead-acid battery was too weak
> or died after 5-6 years, but then I hold onto my cars for decades.

If you had a Toyota Prius the resale value of the first models is
approaching the cost of a new battery + installation so it would be
financially foolish to replace the battery.

So much for apples and oranges, now on to cell phones.

> The average lifespan for smartphones is 3 years - not because a
> new phone is actually needed, but because consumers are pressured
> by the "new is better" sales mantra to get consumers to buy more
> and keep buying. Replacing a usable smartphone with a new one at
> $400, or more, just because a $10 battery needs replacing is like
> buying a new car because the ashtrays are full.

My smart phone batteries have severely reduced life span at 3 years
which is why I want a removable battery. And that $10 battery is over
$200 with labor on some phones. Many have components glued together
and replacement, while possible, is something many repair places won't
even attempt and well beyond the ability of most owners.

> Looks like you're trying to find some excuse to get a new phone.

I have a good one. I'm tired of batteries that won't hold a charge and
buying "new" ones that aren't much better.

[VanguardLH]

XS11E wrote:

> VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote:
>
>> XS11E wrote:
>>
>>> I currently have an LG V20 and it's getting a bit long in the
>>> tooth, ...
>>
>> LG V20 was unveiled in September 6, 2016, or 2.67 years ago.
>> That's "long in the tooth"? What does it not do now that you must
>> pay for a whole new expensive phone to get?
>>
>>> replacement batteries seem to be equally old.
>>
>> How do you know how old are the batteries? There is no
>> manufacture date printed on the battery itself
>
> AFAIK every battery of every kind has a date code and Google will
> show you where it is and how to read it.

Okay, do a Google Image search on "LG V20 battery" and show me one that
has a manufacture datestamp. Remember to only look at batteries that
have "Life's Good" on the front side since those are genuine batteries
for that phone.

>> Batteries ALWAYS DIE. They're chemical. Not a sufficient reason
>> to discard the product that uses batteries.
>
> It is on a cell phone, some older ones use no longer available
> batteries and on some newer phones with non-replaceable batteries the
> cost of replacing the battery is higher than the value of the phone,
> even if you do it yourself.

Neither of which is an issue with the LG V20 with its replaceable
battery, plus batteries are available for the under 3-year old phone.

>> I don't buy a new car because the lead-acid battery was too weak
>> or died after 5-6 years, but then I hold onto my cars for decades.
>
> If you had a Toyota Prius the resale value of the first models is
> approaching the cost of a new battery + installation so it would be
> financially foolish to replace the battery.

There is where the manufacturer lies about the true cost of a hybrid or
electrical vehicle. They advertise how much money you save on gasoline
versus the recharge cost. They never mention the cost of replacing the
entire battery after 5 to 8 years which can cost $3000, or more. Having
to replace the battery destroys the savings from not having to buy gas.

In contrast to your Prius battery example where the battery costs
thousands, the battery for the LG V20 is only $10. The LG V20 was more
expensive when I bought it because it was a brand new model; however,
the cost to buy a new LG V20 phone nowadays is $180, and $10 is far from
the cost of buying the phone again.

>> The average lifespan for smartphones is 3 years - not because a
>> new phone is actually needed, but because consumers are pressured
>> by the "new is better" sales mantra to get consumers to buy more
>> and keep buying. Replacing a usable smartphone with a new one at
>> $400, or more, just because a $10 battery needs replacing is like
>> buying a new car because the ashtrays are full.
>
> My smart phone batteries have severely reduced life span at 3 years
> which is why I want a removable battery. And that $10 battery is over
> $200 with labor on some phones.

You mentioned the LG V20, not some other phone where battery was not
replaceable and the battery cost hundreds. For the LG V20 battery, why
would you pay someone some ridiculous labor cost to flip open the
backside to pop out the old battery and slide in a new one? The $10 LG
V20 battery is STILL just $10, not $200.

You want a phone that has a replaceable battery. Well, the LG V20 that
you already have is one of those, the battery is super simple to
replace, and it costs only $10. Only if you install an armor case on
the phone is battery replacement more difficult (by the amount of effort
to remove and reinstall the armor case).

> Many have components glued together and replacement, while possible,
> is something many repair places won't even attempt and well beyond
> the ability of most owners.

Um, not for the LG V20. You wanted a phone with a replaceable battery.
Bingo, your LG V20 is one of those. No prying the case apart, damaging
a butyl seal that you may have to replace, and removing what was not
designed to be a user-servicable part. The battery in the LG V20 is
very user servicable.

>> Looks like you're trying to find some excuse to get a new phone.
>
> I have a good one. I'm tired of batteries that won't hold a charge and
> buying "new" ones that aren't much better.

I've not run into that situation. Only because I keep my phone in the
recharger is why they get pregnant due to heat, so in about 2 years it
needs to get replaced (the back panel bulges out which makes the armor
case not fit well). If I charged my phone like other users, the battery
would probably last 3 years, or more. It is a chemical part, so I don't
expect it to last forever. Same for wherever batteries are used: UPS,
flashlight, digital multimeter, TV remote, etc.

At the current market price for a new LG V20 ($180), it would take 18
batteries before the total cost of batteries equaled today's price.
With a life expectancy of 2 years (well, more but that depends on your
use, especially regarding charging), that's 36 years before the battery
cost exceeds the phone's cost. Long before then, the LG V20 will become
defunct due to changes in carrier techology, like how I lost use of my
old Motorola Razr phone when carriers dropped 2G.

Um, do you decide it is time to buy a new car just because you
eventually reach a total price you have paid for gasoline, maintenance,
and other costs during ownership of the car? You can find what your
car, or one you are interested in, has for its average annual cost per
year to own. In about 4 years, based on your logic, you just must get
rid of that old car because ownership costs have exceeded the original
purchase price of the car. Lots of consumers keeps their cars for a lot
longer, because the current value to THEM (not shown in Kelly Blue
Book), especially for a car that is paid for, is greater than buying a
new car. I see homeowners do that: they pay a mortgage and after 7
years decide to move, so they've mostly paid on the interest of the loan
and have little real value. Like car owners, homeowners sell and then
buy another because they want change, not because of economic
feasibility.

Yeah, if you get a phone with a non-servicable battery, the cost will be
a lot higher, but then you chose to buy a phone that was specifically
designed not to be user servicable. Those phones are designed to be
disposable after 3 years, because 32 months is the average ownership of
a smartphone. They're catering to the common market of boobs that will
pay new prices for minimal and often fluff new features in new phones.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Wed, 5 Jun 2019 19:47:16 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

> There is where the manufacturer lies about the true cost of a hybrid or
> electrical vehicle. They advertise how much money you save on gasoline
> versus the recharge cost. They never mention the cost of replacing the
> entire battery after 5 to 8 years which can cost $3000, or more. Having
> to replace the battery destroys the savings from not having to buy gas.

Agreed with you that the only cost that matters is the overall cost of
ownership.

On smartphones, I have seen _many_ people claim, for example, that the
overall cost of ownership of iPhones is low, where, in reality, all they're
doing is taking original price & resale value, and _not_ counting anything
else, which is bogus, since, for example, just the sales tax (in
California, where I live) on a typical iPhone is as much as my entire phone
cost.

Also, overall, apps costs more on iOS for a few reasons, not the least of
which is that fewer free apps are available (e.g., for handling encryption
containers) on iOS than on Android.

In short, the _only_ cost that matters, IMHO, is the overall total cost of
ownership, where, for example, (sorry to harp on iOS) if you have to
replace the battery every year, then _that_ is added to the total overall
cost of ownership, period.

Almost everyone who is trying to bullshit us omits the _total_ cost of
ownership, which is, as you noted, a key cost metric to consider.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Wed, 05 Jun 2019 17:17:00 -0700, XS11E wrote:

> My smart phone batteries have severely reduced life span at 3 years
> which is why I want a removable battery. And that $10 battery is over
> $200 with labor on some phones. Many have components glued together
> and replacement, while possible, is something many repair places won't
> even attempt and well beyond the ability of most owners.

On that note, I _love_ that my $130 Costco LG Stylo 3 Plus Phablet has a
removable battery, where, if/when I ever need to replace it, I just pop a
new one in place.

I wish _everyone_ would insist only buying smartphones that have removable
batteries, headphone jacks, and external sd slots - but at least you and I
can insist on buying phones that have them.

[nospam]

In article <qdba3q$409$5...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen G. Holder

<arling...@nospam.net> wrote:

>
> Also, overall, apps costs more on iOS for a few reasons

false. companies that make the same app on both charge the same price,
as low as free.

different apps will have different feature mixes and cannot be directly
compared.

> , not the least of
> which is that fewer free apps are available (e.g., for handling encryption
> containers) on iOS than on Android.

false, and your example does not need an app on ios anyway.

[Theo]

XS11E <xs1...@spamyahoo.com> wrote:
> I have a good one. I'm tired of batteries that won't hold a charge and
> buying "new" ones that aren't much better.

It is a bit of a crapshoot. The problem with removable batteries is that
the vendors don't actually sell replacements for very long - the phone is
only on the market for a year, and maybe they don't sell parts after it's
EOL. Then you're stuck with the aftermarket with its floods of fake
batteries.

There's not a whole lot you can do about that, beyond I suppose buying a
number of new batteries at the time of purchase and using them in rotation.
But it does suggest the 'removable battery' idea is less attractive than it
seems.

One thing to look at is fast charging. If you have an external battery pack
that can charge your phone in 30-60 mins, do you actually need a removable
battery? Maybe your battery life drops a bit, but you can just plug it into
your external pack and keep going. This way you don't need to reboot your
phone to swap batteries.

I would, though, look at teardowns of prospective phones and see if the
non-removable battery can be replaced by removing two screws, or whether it
needs digging through a swamp of glue. Even if you don't do the replacement
yourself, that difficulty is a proxy for what it'll cost a professional to
do it.

Theo

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Thu, 06 Jun 2019 11:16:02 -0400, nospam wrote:

> false, and your example does not need an app on ios anyway.

Stop making up shit, nospam.
o You're just wasting our time

Your accuracy on facts is no better than the results of a coin toss.

By making up that shit, you prove that you're only one of two things:
a. Either you're incredibly dense, incapable of comprehension, or,
b. You're just pulling our leg for your own silly childish amusement

It's patently clear that iOS requires an app to read and write the platform
independent encrypted file containers such as those created by
truecrypt-compatible apps on all five common consumer operating systems.

While your brain is immune to facts, the facts remain
o None of the 5 operating systems natively reads/writes those containers

EVERY one of the five consumer OS's has to add a program to enable
cross-platform encrypted file containers to be read/write on all of those
five platforms.

For you to claim otherwise, even when you _know_ this to be a fact, simply
means that you boldly claim anything you want - without any basis
whatsoever in actual facts.

The fact is that all the other consumer operating systems have freeware for
creating, encrypting, decrypting, portable cross platform encrypted file
containers, except iOS.
o Windows <https://www.veracrypt.fr/en/Home.html>
o Mac <https://www.veracrypt.fr/en/Downloads.html>
o Linux <https://www.veracrypt.fr/en/Downloads.html>
o Android <http://sovworks.com/eds/>
o iOS <nothing>

To the point of costs, iOS has tools that handle this, but they're not free
- which is the point - since this situation is consistent where this is
just one example since my belief system is based on facts, unlike yours:
o Disk Decipher <https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/disk-decipher/id516538625?mt=8>
o Crypto Disks <https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/crypto-disks-store-private/id889549308>

It turns out, when you do the real math, Apple owners almost always prove
to have astronomically high overall costs of ownership, particularly with
respect to iOS and Android comparisons.

iOS: Less functionality; higher overall costs.
Android: More functionality; lower overall costs.

The fact you don't like facts doesn't change the fact they're facts, nospam.

[Wade Garrett]

Be nice if the manufacturers standardized on jus a few batteries for the
different sized phones.

Back in the day, every new phone had a unique power jack, plug and charger.

Now, most Androids have micro USB jacks. The removable USB cables are
all the same though the variously speced wall transformers and car CLAs
have slightly different outputs.

In truth though, they're all pretty much interchangeable and will work
with most any phone, tablet or e-reader.

--
Ever notice the shortage of "armed law-abiding citizen” victim tragedy
stories in the news?

[nospam]

In article <qdbiu3$jgo$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen G. Holder
<arling...@nospam.net> wrote:

> my brain is immune to facts,

ftfy

your 'facts' is assuming something is impossible only because you don't
know how to do it, and whenever anyone explains how to do it, you go
off on a rant.

[nospam]

In article <qdbj7f$oce$1...@news.albasani.net>, Wade Garrett

<wa...@cooler.net> wrote:

> Be nice if the manufacturers standardized on jus a few batteries for the
> different sized phones.

it wouldn't, since that would severely compromise design.

> Back in the day, every new phone had a unique power jack, plug and charger.

which was worse.

> Now, most Androids have micro USB jacks. The removable USB cables are
> all the same though the variously speced wall transformers and car CLAs
> have slightly different outputs.

newer android phones use usb-c. older android phones used mini-usb. at
least one used ext-usb. some have their own power jack. iphones use
lightning. older iphones use a dock connector, as did some older
samsung android phones.

[VanguardLH]

Theo wrote:

> The problem with removable batteries is that
> the vendors don't actually sell replacements for very long - the phone is
> only on the market for a year, and maybe they don't sell parts after it's
> EOL. Then you're stuck with the aftermarket with its floods of fake
> batteries.

But the legit batteries in storage last 10 years. It's only been 3
years, at most, that the OP has owned the LG V20. You do have to watch
out for the fakes, though. You have to know what a legit battery looks
like, you have to check the reputation and lifespan of the seller, but
then you don't lose risk much on just a $10 battery.

> One thing to look at is fast charging. If you have an external battery pack
> that can charge your phone in 30-60 mins, do you actually need a removable
> battery? Maybe your battery life drops a bit, but you can just plug it into
> your external pack and keep going. This way you don't need to reboot your
> phone to swap batteries.

When I come home, the phone goes into the charger stand. That way, it's
ready when I next go out.

However, there is something else regarding convenience of removable
batteries: easy transportation as a spare. Yes, you can get those power
packs, but the ones that have a decent amp-hour rating are rather bulky.
An LG V20 spare battery can fit in the fob pocket of my jeans. When I'm
on a long trip, plane ride, or somewhere for hours out of range of a
wall outlet, the spare battery is easy to carry and the case back is
easy to remove to swap in the charged spare battery. With an internal
battery, even with the wireless charging (which is slower than using an
A/C adapter), when the battery is out of power then the phone is
unusable until you get somewhere you can charge it. For an internal
batteried phone, you tote along a power pack. For a removable batteried
phone, you can tote a spare battery which is lighter and smaller.

There is an advantage to internal non-servicable batteried phones,
though: their more water resistant. While I've lost a couple of digital
cameras due to heavy and sudden downpours, I've not yet lost a phone
that way. However, I did lose a phone when it was in my swim shorts
pocket and I later went into the jacuzzi and pool. However, I don't
know if the so-called sealed internal batteried phones would survive a
long dip in the jacuzzi.

> I would, though, look at teardowns of prospective phones and see if
> the non-removable battery can be replaced by removing two screws, or
> whether it needs digging through a swamp of glue. Even if you don't
> do the replacement yourself, that difficulty is a proxy for what
> it'll cost a professional to do it.

Most I've seen on Youtube use a butyl seal, and removing the backplate
results in stretching or pulling that seal out of place. While you
might be able to squish it back in place, it's probably not a good seal
thereafter. Maybe there are places you can buy seal replacements, so
when you replace the internal battery you can also replace the seal.
Since I don't own a non-servicable batteried phone (that I can still
service but not designed for that), I haven't checked into buying both
the internal battery replacement and seal replacement.

[nospam]

In article <y4e75o5soy47$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>, VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH>

wrote:

>
> > The problem with removable batteries is that
> > the vendors don't actually sell replacements for very long - the phone is
> > only on the market for a year, and maybe they don't sell parts after it's
> > EOL. Then you're stuck with the aftermarket with its floods of fake
> > batteries.
>
> But the legit batteries in storage last 10 years.

no they very definitely do not.

lithium ion batteries start to degrade the moment they leave the
factory, regardless if they're being used or not, with 3-5 years being
typical, and a battery sitting on a shelf that's self-discharging is
very unlikely to be at the upper end of that range.

> For an internal
> batteried phone, you tote along a power pack. For a removable batteried
> phone, you can tote a spare battery which is lighter and smaller.

for a phone that lasts a day or two on a single charge, as many do, you
only need to tote a cable to connect it to power.

usb power packs aren't very big, some which can fit on a keyring, and
they can charge more than just phones too.

<https://www.smartertravel.com/uploads/2016/06/Fuel-Micro-Charger-2-700x
500.jpg>

> There is an advantage to internal non-servicable batteried phones,
> though: their more water resistant. While I've lost a couple of digital
> cameras due to heavy and sudden downpours, I've not yet lost a phone
> that way. However, I did lose a phone when it was in my swim shorts
> pocket and I later went into the jacuzzi and pool. However, I don't
> know if the so-called sealed internal batteried phones would survive a
> long dip in the jacuzzi.

some phones are rated ip67 or ip68, and for those that aren't rated
that high, there are waterproof cases.

and next time, don't go into a jacuzzi with a phone.

[XS11E]

VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote:

> XS11E wrote:
>
>> AFAIK every battery of every kind has a date code and Google will
>> show you where it is and how to read it.
>
> Okay, do a Google Image search on "LG V20 battery" and show me one
> that has a manufacture datestamp. Remember to only look at
> batteries that have "Life's Good" on the front side since those
> are genuine batteries for that phone.

That may not apply to mine since LG stamps the date right on the
battery in plain English.

[John B.]

Why? After all, some people do not require removable batteries,
headphone jacks and external SD slots, why should they be required to
pay the extra costs of having them?

Why shouldn't folks be able to buy what they want as apposed to what
you demand?
--
cheers,

John B.

[VanguardLH]

XS11E wrote:

> VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote:
>
>> XS11E wrote:
>>
>>> AFAIK every battery of every kind has a date code and Google will
>>> show you where it is and how to read it.
>>
>> Okay, do a Google Image search on "LG V20 battery" and show me one
>> that has a manufacture datestamp. Remember to only look at
>> batteries that have "Life's Good" on the front side since those
>> are genuine batteries for that phone.
>
> That may not apply to mine since LG stamps the date right on the
> battery in plain English.

I found:

https://s.yimg.com/aah/outletpc/replacement-battery-for-lg-v20-f800l-h910-h915-h990-h990ds-h990tr-ls997-us996-vs995-32.jpg

I see numerals for a datestamp, but I cannot read Chinese to know what
that date represents. I hunted around for an text-in-image text
converter aka OCR translator (Chinese to English). Didn't know if I'd
find one as a web site (other than using a smartphone's camera with
Google's Translate app). translate.yahdex.com/ocr has one. It figures
out word boundaries. When I clicked on the Chinese to the left of the
datestamp in the white box, that translated to "Product date:". Good
catch.

Chile has the highest reserves of lithium with China the second largest.
Don't remember ever seeing a lithium battery saying it was made in
Chile, but all the lithium batteries I've seen definitely say "Made in
China". Clicking on a couple lines above to translate says "Toshiuyuku
Energy (U) Limited".

https://www.lg.com/us/mobile-accessories/lg-PAC63320502-v20-battery

LG lists the battery but no mention who makes it for them. When I
hunted around for LG V20 batteries, most don't have a datestamp, so
maybe those are the reproductions. I'm not sure fakes is the correct
term since I don't know that the chemistry would be any different, but
the logic inside might. Maybe lithium paste (for batteries) is a trade
secret, like inkjet inks. Since I cannot tell which manufacturer is
used solely by LG (probably not unique), no way to tell which are the
non-LG batteries. Maybe the white datestamp block is the only way.

I found another LG V20 battery that had the datestamp block, but it was
made by LG Chem, Ltd (where "Manufaturer:" was in Chinese but the
company name was in English). The part numbers were different:

Toshiuyuku: EAC63341101 AAC
LG Chem: EAC63320507 LLL

They both listed the same minimum mAh and Wh rating; however, the
printing on the back was different between the two. LG doesn't show the
backside of the battery to see who makes what they use. That might be
deliberate since they might contract with more than one plant to meet
demand and their purchasing agents probably change the seller for
whomever is cheapest at the time. Since LG doesn't manufacture the
batteries, saying a battery is "OEM" really doesn't mean much. It just
means LG stamped their brand on the component. You could look at the
stock battery that came with your LG V20 and find it has different
markings and a different manufacturer than the stock battery gave me in
the LG V20 that I bought.

How you configure and use your phone also dictates battery life. I
leave on all the radios: cellular, wifi, GPS, and Bluetooth. My
backgrounded apps probably differs from yours. With *my* particular
setup of my LG V20, its battery never lasted more than a day. That's
why it goes into the charger stand when I get home. My simple little
Motorola Razr flip-phone lasted a week on a charge, but it obviously
didn't have all the radios, other hardware, and none of the apps of my
LG V20.

As I recall, there were reports back around 2016 (after the LG V20 came
out) about unexpected shortened battery life. Some complained about
losing 3% charge in airplane mode after a day. Really, 3% is considered
bad? I think the main problem back them was the phone indicated the
battery would not reach 100% charge, like only 98%. Another was the
stock battery didn't have as long an uptime as expected or advertised.
While LG would have their part number for a component, that doesn't mean
they buy that component always from the same manufacturer, so how can
you know what is LG's "stock" battery (by manufacturer, that mfr's part
number, lithium paste ingredients, protection logic, etc).

[XS11E]

VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote:

> While LG would have their part number for a component, that
> doesn't mean they buy that component always from the same
> manufacturer, so how can you know what is LG's "stock" battery (by
> manufacturer, that mfr's part number, lithium paste ingredients,
> protection logic, etc).

One can only hope LG does some vetting of the manufacturers?

Anyway, I can't go much past 5 PM on a battery now, I get up about 6:30
usually, so with my apps and my usage I'm getting about 10 - 11 hours
on a battery. When new I could make it through the day w/o changing,
since I go to bed about 10 or 11 PM say around 16 hours or so, that's
typical 3 year deterioration based on previous phones I've had in
recent years.

So, new phone every 3 years I guess? Dang it, I like this phone and
it's the only phone I've had since my Motorola 686(?) that I haven't
unlocked the bootloader and rooted, I'm happy with it just as is.
Maybe I need to buy a new battery that ISN'T an LG battery??? I'll
give it a try, certainly cheaper than buying a new phone, I can buy
land, build a factory and make my own batteries for about the price of
some of the new Samsing phones! ;-)

[VanguardLH]

I don't get or make many calls, and I try to keep them short without
cutting off the other end. My use (phone is actively involved in a
call) is likely less than yours. It's a personal use only phone, not
for business use. If I used my phone as often as I see by others, like
blabbing away on some triviality at the grocery store, yeah, my battery
wouldn't last nearly as long and I have to carry around a spare battery;
however, a spare battery is light, small, and easy to swap because the
LG V20 was designed for a user-servicable battery.

Which version of Android is on the phone. As I recall, one OS update,
maybe more, advertised better battery saving. When I got the phone, I
think it came with Android 6 (Marshmallow), but has been updated through
Android 7 (Nougat) and Android 8 (Oreo). Nougat had better battery
life. Doze Mode showed up in Android 6 (Marshmallow) but worked only if
the phone was stationary. Android 7 (Nougat) improved Doze Mode so it
still worked when the phone was bouncing around while moving. Doze Mode
is baked into Nougat, so you don't need to enable it, just have your
screen go off. Android 8 (Oreo) also had battery improvements, like:

“Wise limits” boosts battery by imposing limits on nonessential and
battery-draining tasks. There are two kinds: Execution limits and
location limits. Execution limits restrict apps that aren’t in the
foreground from hogging resources, and location limits prevent apps
from excessively querying your phone’s location services.

Some users disable the Software Updater in their phone. They figure if
the phone is working when they bought it that they don't want a later
and newer OS to break it.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 05:50:19 +0700, John B. wrote:

> Why? After all, some people do not require removable batteries,
> headphone jacks and external SD slots, why should they be required to
> pay the extra costs of having them?
>
> Why shouldn't folks be able to buy what they want as apposed to what
> you demand?

Hi John B.,

The cost to add a removable battery, sd slot, and headphone jack bear
absolutely zero relationship to the overall cost of the phone in practical
terms.

For example...
o Phablet stocking stuffers: iPhone 7 versus LG Stylo 3 Plus price/performance hardware comparison
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/ls71mnkj4jk%5B1-25%5D>

The iPhone 7 Plus costs five times the LG Stylo 3 Plus, and yet, that
iPhone lacks almost all the hardware functionality of the LG Stylo 3 Plus,
including a removable battery, headphone jack, FM radio, and sd slot (in
addition to extreme lack of software functionality, such as graphing wifi
signal strength over time, automatic call recording, ability to organize
the desktop properly, etc.).

HINT: The price of the phone, has NOTHING to do with the things that you
"think" add to the cost of the phone. There is no correlation whatsoever.

Red cars might sell for more than blue cars, but not because of the
difference in the cost of the paint.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 01:24:07 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

> Some users disable the Software Updater in their phone. They figure if
> the phone is working when they bought it that they don't want a later
> and newer OS to break it.

Below is my suggestion for setting up any Android phone for battery
efficiency.

With intelligent use of the dozen main power settings...
my two-year old LG Stylo 3 Plus lasts all day, and often a couple of days
on a charge, although it will always depend on what I do with the phone.

The top swipe-down bar can only hold five icons in the first row,
which I've carefully designed to be the most often needed, namely
1. Airplane mode
2. Location mode
3. Data mode
4. WiFi mode
5. Sound mode

Where, unless I'm literally using the GPS chip, I have location mode turned
off, and unless I'm literally using data, I have data mode turned off.

Generally WiFi mode is turned on, as is sound, but often I turn them off if
I know I'm not in a wifi area or if I'm teaching a class or in a meeting.

By default, these in the second row are always off, unless specifically
needed:
6. Bluetooth mode
7. NFC mode
8. Sync mode
9. Ftp server
10. Nearby Google Play

By default, these in the third row are usually on, unless I need to turn
them off:
11. Battery saver mode (automatically turns on at 15%)
12. WebDAV server

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Thu, 06 Jun 2019 13:45:12 -0400, nospam wrote:

> your 'facts' is assuming something is impossible only because you don't
> know how to do it, and whenever anyone explains how to do it, you go
> off on a rant.

Yet again, you fail the simple 3-word adult test of your beliefs, nospam
o Name just one

[Chris]

XS11E <xs1...@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
> "tb" <nos...@example.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 6/5/2019 at 12:55:07 PM XS11E wrote:
>>
>>> I currently have an LG V20
>
>> See if this link gets you started with your search:
>> <https://www.productchart.com/smartphones/sets/3>
>
> Great chart, unfortunately the only phone that meets my specs is the LG
> V20 :-(

If you like that phone so much, why not just get an external power bank?
They're not very big and can fully recharge phones at least once or twice.

[XS11E]

Removes portability. I can slip a spare battery in a shirt pocket but
many power banks and some of the bigger battery options require cargo
pants or, with a Perfine 10500mAh Battery a semi-trailer to carry it.
I lost the slim size of the V20 already because it's too thin and
slippery for my arthritc fingers to hold so I must use a case, I don't
want anything bigger nor do I want to carry separate power.

[XS11E]

VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote:

> I don't get or make many calls, and I try to keep them short
> without cutting off the other end.

I make 2 - 3 calls/month or so. My phone is my PC anytime I'm away
from my desk, it's my reading material always carrying 5 - 15 books in
the Kindle or Aldiko app, it's my constant argument settler (What was
Sandy Koufax lifetime ERA? ANS = 2.76) and my TV guide. So I use the
heck out of it even though it's rarely a phone, it's much more a pocket
PC.

It's updated to Android 8.

I've ended the discussion by pulling the trigger on Amazon for a new
Samsung J7 unlocked, a cheap phone.

This AM my phone wasn't fully charged, when I connected the charger
last night the cord fell out and I was again reminded I have a
defective charging port that allows the cable to fall out, some cables
are worse than others but they're all a bit iffy. Talk about a last
straw! I've previously been happy with Samsung phones, my fingers are
tightly crossed!

Thanks ALL for the help, the suggestions and the discussions, it's been
fun!

[nospam]

In article <XnsAA67914D514...@127.0.0.1>, XS11E

<xs1...@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote:

> >> Great chart, unfortunately the only phone that meets my specs is
> >> the LG V20 :-(
> >
> > If you like that phone so much, why not just get an external power
> > bank? They're not very big and can fully recharge phones at least
> > once or twice.
>
> Removes portability. I can slip a spare battery in a shirt pocket but
> many power banks and some of the bigger battery options require cargo
> pants or, with a Perfine 10500mAh Battery a semi-trailer to carry it.

compare a power bank with similar capacity as a spare battery, which
for that phone is 3200 mah, and those are not big and will easily slip
in a pocket without being noticeable. some even fit on a keychain or in
a wallet.

comparing it to a battery that's more than 3x the capacity is not a
fair comparison, although 10k mah packs aren't that big.

> I lost the slim size of the V20 already because it's too thin and
> slippery for my arthritc fingers to hold so I must use a case, I don't
> want anything bigger nor do I want to carry separate power.

get a battery case.

[Chris]

XS11E <xs1...@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
> Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> XS11E <xs1...@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>>> "tb" <nos...@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/5/2019 at 12:55:07 PM XS11E wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I currently have an LG V20
>>>
>>>> See if this link gets you started with your search:
>>>> <https://www.productchart.com/smartphones/sets/3>
>>>
>>> Great chart, unfortunately the only phone that meets my specs is
>>> the LG V20 :-(
>>
>> If you like that phone so much, why not just get an external power
>> bank? They're not very big and can fully recharge phones at least
>> once or twice.
>
> Removes portability. I can slip a spare battery in a shirt pocket but
> many power banks and some of the bigger battery options require cargo
> pants or, with a Perfine 10500mAh Battery a semi-trailer to carry it.

Like I said, they're not very big. This one is the size of a lighter
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00MWU1GGI/

> I lost the slim size of the V20 already because it's too thin and
> slippery for my arthritc fingers to hold so I must use a case, I don't
> want anything bigger nor do I want to carry separate power.

It was just an option to keep your preferred phone and low cost.