Advise me (& everyone) about the use of inexpensive $16 64GB flash cards on Android 7.0 Nougat phones

[Arlen Holder]

I haven't used sd cards since my Galaxy S3 - now I have 3 for Nougat 7.0.
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9757754sdcard01.jpg>
Frys has these 64GB sdcards on sale for $16; so I bought 3 as gifts.

The handful of $130 LG Stylo 3 Plus gifts can hold up to 2TB cards, so
these aren't the biggest card for that Android 7.0 Nougat phone, nor are
they the fastest I'm sure ... but are they good enough?
<https://www.frys.com/product/9172438>

*I don't know sdcards all that well - nor what they can do nowadays.*

And I haven't used them since the Samsung Galaxy S3 Android 4.3 days.
(My prior Nexus 5 & Moto G phones were all Google limited to no sdcard.)

Since these are still on sale, everyone can benefit by your advice.
*Maybe you can advise as to whether these SD cards are "ok" at $16 each?*
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1450594sdcard02.jpg>

Here's what the package says:
* Samsung 64GB microSDXC UHS-I Card
* EVO with SD adapter
* "Transfer Speed up to 100MB/s, Class 10, 3, 4K Ultra HD).

Three general questions I ask for all (including me) to learn from you.
1. What do you think of these 64GB cards (since they're on sale now)?
2. Are these cards a decent fit for an Android 7.0 smartphone today?
3. How can we "relocate" folders/files for apps that won't use the sdcard?
4. What else in a newer Android "can" we do with sdcards that is useful?

On "what's useful" nowadays with Android 7, my main experience with sdcards
was on my now dead Samsung Galaxy S3 on Android 4.3 where I was able to do
the following:
a. I easily set *some* camera apps to store directly to the sd card
b. I easily set *some* map apps to store map files directly on the sd card
c. I easily set my automatic APK backup to store directly to the sd card
d. I easily created folders and files directly on that sd card
e. And I could easily create homescreen shortcuts to those folders & files
(In those days I used ES File Explorer - but it went to the dark side.)

One "complication" on Android 4.3 was that some apps would not store
directly to the sd card, so I tested all the freeware file-relocators (akea
file redirectors) to find the best free one at that time, which was clearly
com.tobino.redirectsfree (but I don't see it on Google Play anymore):
Redirect File Organizer by Xavier Tobin
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tobino.redirectsfree>

Another complication, as I recall, with Android 4.3, was that apps wouldn't
install themselves on the sdcard (is that fixed yet with Android 7?).

In summary, if you use the sd card on Android 7, can you get me up to speed
with what are some useful things we can do on Android 7 specifically, and
specifically if you can help flesh out answers to these questions for not
only me but for everyone.
1. What do you think of these Frys cards (since they're on sale now)?
2. Are these cards fast enough for use in an Android 7.0 smartphone today?
3. What freeware "relocates" folders/files for apps that won't use sdcards?
4. What else in Android 7 Nougat "can" we do with sdcards that is useful?

[I R A Darth Aggie]

On Wed, 29 Aug 2018 15:48:06 -0000 (UTC),
Arlen Holder <arlen...@nospam.net>, in

<pm6f7l$bkk$1...@news.mixmin.net> wrote:
> I haven't used sd cards since my Galaxy S3 - now I have 3 for Nougat 7.0.

> Here's what the package says:
> * Samsung 64GB microSDXC UHS-I Card
> * EVO with SD adapter
> * "Transfer Speed up to 100MB/s, Class 10, 3, 4K Ultra HD).

So, it's rated for 4K video recording. And they come from a reputable
company. But they maybe optimized for writing large contiguous
files. I would expect that to be typical of an android, except when
you're capturing video.

> Three general questions I ask for all (including me) to learn from you.
> 1. What do you think of these 64GB cards (since they're on sale now)?
> 2. Are these cards a decent fit for an Android 7.0 smartphone today?
> 3. How can we "relocate" folders/files for apps that won't use the sdcard?
> 4. What else in a newer Android "can" we do with sdcards that is useful?

1. on sale is good, but sub $20 is about par for that size. But they
are fast.
2. yes. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that most android phones
with sdxc cards max out at 128 GB
3. this may help

https://www.lifewire.com/move-files-pictures-apps-to-sd-card-android-4147213

4. there was an option to format the card to be used as an extension
of the internal storage space. The advantage of that is you didn't
have to deal with 3 above, but the disadvantage is that you
couldn't pop the card out and stick in a computer and read the
contents. My Nokia 6.1 (android 8) didn't offer such when I stuck a
128GB card in.

I'm also not seeing any "move to sd card" option in the App Info.

--
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
isn't looking good, either.
I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.

[Arlen Holder]

On 29 Aug 2018 21:09:24 GMT, I R A Darth Aggie wrote:

> 1. on sale is good, but sub $20 is about par for that size. But they
> are fast.

Thanks for the advice as everyone can benefit who is near a Frys or who can
shop on a computer.

What is ambiguous to me is the "up to" claim of "up to 100 MB/s".
That could mean 1MB/sec or 10MB/sec or 40MB/s, etc.
So it doesn't really tell me much *unless* there's some industry standard
that accompanied that claim that gives us more accurate information.

Looking at a link inside your LifeWire cite below, I found this:
The 8 Best SD Cards to Buy in 2018
<https://www.lifewire.com/best-sd-cards-to-buy-4072362>
Which says:
"The Evo series from Samsung offers an amazing value for the price
because they▔e optimized these SD cards for massive UHD video files".

Your reference above also says of the 9th-place Evo cards:
"That 64GB capacity offers read speeds up to 100 mb/s,
with write speeds capping at 60 mb/s."

And, with respect to 4K (which I don't generally do), it says:
" it can accommodate 4K videos, too."

And, as for "specs" (which I admit I don't know anything about):
"It offers grade 3 and class 10 distinctions, meaning it's about
as pro as it gets, and it comes with a full-sized SD card adapter."

It's a bit disconcerting that the Samsung EVO cards came in 9th place on a
list of the top 8 best cards! :)

> 2. yes. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that most android phones
> with sdxc cards max out at 128 GB

Thanks for that assessment. While the LG Stylo 3 Plus can handle 2TB cards,
nobody has them (effectively) and I couldn't afford them anyway, and, I
wouldn't need them for a phone that is already 64GB internal storage.

I figured since the ROM must take up something like 8GB or 9GB, I can back
up all the data and apps to the SD Card if I need to, at simply matching
the internal storage of the Android phone.

I wonder what metric people use to determine the size of their SD cards?
a. Smaller than the internal ROM?
b. Same size?
c. Bigger?

> 3. this may help
> https://www.lifewire.com/move-files-pictures-apps-to-sd-card-android-4147213

Thanks for that cite (which also referenced the top 8 sdcards for 2018).

It's nice that your article is dated this month, simply because such things
go out of date pretty fast on Android.

The section on "Move Files to an SD Card" en masse, left a lot to be
desired simply because you can't just move map databases like you can move
call logs. If the app doesn't recognize where you've moved stuff, it's
effectively not there for the app to use. So that section was useless.

But the section on " Move Apps to SD Card " was not much better, but only
because there never once was mention of the Android version, which, I
believe, is critical - is it not?

Even so, I tried their suggestion on the LG Stylo 3 Plus default App Drawer
app, which, much to my dismay, doesnt' even have a "settings" gear icon or
anything whatsoever for settings.

Of course, I can load another app drawer app - but any description of how
to move apps that doesn't contain a single reference to the app drawer app
or more importantly to the Android version, probably isn't worth trying to
make work (IMHO). :)

I can find an article but I was hoping to get advice from someone who has
done it since they know all the gotchas better (like I do when I do
something and then write the DIY for how to do it for others to follow).

This shows Marshmallow and Nougat instructions, which I'll try:
<http://www.tomsguide.com/forum/id-3342138/move-apps-card-stylo-android-nougat.html>

This is specific to the LG Stylo (but it's the 2 and not the 3 Plus)
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvoSQKb4nLw>

Generally I shun youtube DIYs (except for car repair) so I'll try the Toms
Guide instructions first.

> 4. there was an option to format the card to be used as an extension
> of the internal storage space. The advantage of that is you didn't
> have to deal with 3 above, but the disadvantage is that you
> couldn't pop the card out and stick in a computer and read the
> contents. My Nokia 6.1 (android 8) didn't offer such when I stuck a
> 128GB card in.

This is a good point which I thank you for bringing up as I hadn't thought
of using the SD card as an "extension" to the internal memory.

I can easily see the same pros and cons, where you can double your storage,
but you can't then use the card in a computer - which is a big drawback.

I think 64GB of storage, today, is a good size, so I'm mostly going to just
move the apps that I don't often use to the SD card as I have a *lot* of
apps!

Here are just my map apps, for example...
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5724716mapapps.jpg>

>
> I'm also not seeing any "move to sd card" option in the App Info.

Thank you for running that test.

I agree with you that the normal Android "Settings" in Nougat Android 7.0
does not seem to have anything for moving to the SD card.

[SC Tom]

"Arlen Holder" <arlen...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:pm789t$n62$1...@news.mixmin.net...

> On 29 Aug 2018 21:09:24 GMT, I R A Darth Aggie wrote:
>
>> 1. on sale is good, but sub $20 is about par for that size. But they
>> are fast.
>
> Thanks for the advice as everyone can benefit who is near a Frys or who
> can
> shop on a computer.
>
> What is ambiguous to me is the "up to" claim of "up to 100 MB/s".
> That could mean 1MB/sec or 10MB/sec or 40MB/s, etc.
> So it doesn't really tell me much *unless* there's some industry standard
> that accompanied that claim that gives us more accurate information.

That's a CYA statement- most everything that does data transfer will have an
"up to" disclaimer so that when their device turns out to be a POS because
it DOES only transfer at 1MB/sec, they can point to that and say, "Well, we
told you so." Just my HAWO :-)
--

SC Tom

[Anssi Saari]

Arlen Holder <arlen...@nospam.net> writes:

> What is ambiguous to me is the "up to" claim of "up to 100 MB/s".
> That could mean 1MB/sec or 10MB/sec or 40MB/s, etc.
> So it doesn't really tell me much *unless* there's some industry standard
> that accompanied that claim that gives us more accurate information.

The SD card organization has a reasonable presentation about the speeds
at https://www.sdcard.org/developers/overview/speed_class/index.html and
https://www.sdcard.org/developers/overview/application/index.html

The up to 100 MB/s probably comes from UHS-1 which defines a bus
interface that can go that fast. It says nothing about what the card can
actually do. OTOH, UHS-1 does specify a minimum write speed of 10 MB/s.

The speed classes and video speed classes also specify a minimum write
speed. So for example, Class 10 has 10 MB/s or more. The card I
currently have in the phone is like that (Sandisk Ultra 128 GB, class
10, UHS-1, A1).

The last above, A1, is "application class". It also specifies a minimum
write speed of 10 MB/s and also minimum random read and write in IOPS
which isn't that easy to translate into real world performance.

So in conclusion, nothing seems to guarantee a read speed. Minimum write
speeds are given. I think read speeds are "usually" higher than write
speeds but YMMV etc.

> I wonder what metric people use to determine the size of their SD cards?
> a. Smaller than the internal ROM?
> b. Same size?
> c. Bigger?

For me it's been larger, I have a 128 GB card in my HTC 10 now, had a 64
GB card before. This phone has 32 GB storage. But really the choice has
been price. Don't want to spend too much since it's really just
temporary storage for photos, backups and music. I rarely shoot
video. From a quick google it looks like the phone could write 30 MB/s
to a 30 MB/s card so I guess I could have faster backups with a faster
card.

[Arlen Holder]

On 30 Aug 2018 05:57:17 GMT, Anssi Saari wrote:

> So in conclusion, nothing seems to guarantee a read speed. Minimum write
> speeds are given. I think read speeds are "usually" higher than write
> speeds but YMMV etc.

Thank you for that detailed technical information, which actually comes in
handy as Costco is currently selling two 64GB flash cards for essentially
the same price as the Samsung 64GB cards are from Fryes.
* SanDisk Ultra Plus microSDXC UHS-I Cards with SD Adapters
* A1, Full HD Video, Class 10
* Costco item # 1155398 $32.99
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2449004flash03.jpg>

I picked up a couple to compare with the Samsung cards empirically.
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3526788flash04.jpg>

*Which do you think are a better deal for most Android users in the USA?*

Is there any way to compare the Samsung "EVO" with Sandisk "A1"?

* Samsung 64GB microSDXC UHS-I Card
* EVO with SD adapter
* "Transfer Speed up to 100MB/s, Class 10, 3, 4K Ultra HD).

<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9757754sdcard01.jpg>

BTW, I've been thinking about that suggestion to format the flash card in a
special way so that it simply becomes an *extension to memory*.

Has anyone here done that yet?
Or will I be the first?

What are the main advantages and disadvantages in actual use?

Here are some tutorials - where it seems like a neat idea (if it works):
How to format MicroSD cards as internal memory
<https://www.androidpit.com/how-to-format-microsd-cards-as-internal-storage>

[I R A Darth Aggie]

On Wed, 29 Aug 2018 22:55:59 -0000 (UTC),

Arlen Holder <arlen...@nospam.net>, in

<pm789t$n62$1...@news.mixmin.net> wrote:

> What is ambiguous to me is the "up to" claim of "up to 100 MB/s".
> That could mean 1MB/sec or 10MB/sec or 40MB/s, etc.
> So it doesn't really tell me much *unless* there's some industry standard
> that accompanied that claim that gives us more accurate information.

> does not seem to have anything for moving to the SD card.

Think of it as guaranteed to never excede and you won't go far
wrong. Actual read/write speeds are so dependent on so many factors it
really comes down to how fast it goes on your setup.

[The Real Bev]

On 08/31/2018 01:45 PM, I R A Darth Aggie wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Aug 2018 22:55:59 -0000 (UTC),
> Arlen Holder <arlen...@nospam.net>, in
> <pm789t$n62$1...@news.mixmin.net> wrote:
>
>> What is ambiguous to me is the "up to" claim of "up to 100 MB/s".
>> That could mean 1MB/sec or 10MB/sec or 40MB/s, etc.
>> So it doesn't really tell me much *unless* there's some industry standard
>> that accompanied that claim that gives us more accurate information.
>> does not seem to have anything for moving to the SD card.
>
> Think of it as guaranteed to never excede and you won't go far
> wrong. Actual read/write speeds are so dependent on so many factors it
> really comes down to how fast it goes on your setup.

Tangential note: we ordered those from Fry's last Sunday (8/26). They
were supposed to be here today. UPS tracker updated that to 9/4. Yet
another reason to be unhappy with Fry's.

--
Cheers, Bev
"I never understood why anyone would go to the trouble to write a novel
when you can just go out and buy one for a few bucks." -- lpogoda

[Wade Garrett]

On 8/31/18 8:26 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 08/31/2018 01:45 PM, I R A Darth Aggie wrote:
>> On Wed, 29 Aug 2018 22:55:59 -0000 (UTC),
>> Arlen Holder <arlen...@nospam.net>, in
>> <pm789t$n62$1...@news.mixmin.net> wrote:
>>
>>>  What is ambiguous to me is the "up to" claim of "up to 100 MB/s".
>>>  That could mean 1MB/sec or 10MB/sec or 40MB/s, etc.
>>>  So it doesn't really tell me much *unless* there's some industry
>>> standard
>>>  that accompanied that claim that gives us more accurate information.
>>>  does not seem to have anything for moving to the SD card.
>>
>> Think of it as guaranteed to never excede and you won't go far
>> wrong. Actual read/write speeds are so dependent on so many factors it
>> really comes down to how fast it goes on your setup.
>
> Tangential note:  we ordered those from Fry's last Sunday (8/26).  They
> were supposed to be here today.  UPS tracker updated that to 9/4.  Yet
> another reason to be unhappy with Fry's.
>

Did Fry's delay the actual shipping- or did UPS miss a pickup or relay
connection so they missed your Friday expected delivery?

Not making excuses for UPS- but unlike the post office, they don't
deliver on Saturdays and with Monday being a holiday, the fourth would
be their next possible delivery date.

--
Road sign you don’t want to see: “Speed Limit Enforced By Sniper”

[The Real Bev]

We put in the order at ~11am Sunday morning . Not UPS' fault -- normal
x-country ground ship time is 4 or 5 days. It would probably have been
cheaper and faster for them to send them in a padded envelope through
the US mail. I guess I can't really complain, it's just disappointing
-- the intent is to use them in our (and our friend's) Raspberry Pi, and
it's hard to wait when you have new toys :-)

Samsung 64GB MicroSDXC EVO Memory Card with Adapter 3 Friday, August
31 $16.00 $48.00

Bell, CA, United States 09/01/2018 5:46 A.M. Arrival Scan
Memphis, TN, United States 08/29/2018 3:47 A.M. Departure Scan
Memphis, TN, United States 08/28/2018 9:06 P.M. Origin Scan
United States 08/27/2018 8:04 P.M. Order Processed: Ready for UPS

--
Cheers, Bev
...so few snipers, so many politicians...

[Arlen Holder]

On 31 Aug 2018 17:26:09 GMT, The Real Bev wrote:

> Tangential note: we ordered those from Fry's last Sunday (8/26). They
> were supposed to be here today. UPS tracker updated that to 9/4. Yet
> another reason to be unhappy with Fry's.

I'm glad someone, especially you who have helped many in the past, has
benefited from the data and links.

The Costco brand seems to be a similar deal, effectively, does it not?

* SanDisk Ultra Plus microSDXC UHS-I Cards with SD Adapters
* A1, Full HD Video, Class 10
* Costco item # 1155398 $32.99
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2449004flash03.jpg>
I picked up a couple to compare with the Samsung cards empirically.
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3526788flash04.jpg>

The one obvious (but perhaps minor?) advantage of the Costco deal is that
you get three times longer warranty period - but - for such things as
memory cards - I can't see that being a factor unless the price plummets
such that you'd return the Costco cards and get cheaper better sdcards in
that 3 months.

Do those who know more than I do have an opinion on whether the Fryes or
Costco deals are better? (both of which are current)

[Arlen Holder]

On 1 Sep 2018 10:29:05 GMT, The Real Bev wrote:

> I guess I can't really complain, it's just disappointing
> -- the intent is to use them in our (and our friend's) Raspberry Pi, and
> it's hard to wait when you have new toys :-)

I also saw Rasperry Pi aluminum painted cases on sale when I was at Frys a
couple of days ago... let me check the prices ... I didn't see them.

But if you want them, they were something like 16 bucks (which, if you
think of it, is kind'a high compared to the price of the board though).

[Wade Garrett]

I order most of my electronics from NewEgg who offers free shipping on
most stuff. Their nominal free mode is that combo shipping service where
UPS, FedEx or even DHL transports it from the NewEgg warehouse to my
town where they turn over to the Post Office for final mile delivery to
my house.

In my city, the post office receives these packages (usually within a
day or two after leaving NewEgg's warehouse- even cross-country) at a
central mail processing facility south of town. Here, they usually age
it for a few days before moving it north about 15 miles to my local post
office. These postal droids then generally sit on it for at least
another day or two more before grudgingly putting on their little truck
for delivery to my mailbox.

Using this service, I'm typically waiting a week-plus to receive my goodies.

But NewEgg has started offering a new free shipping option via FedEx.
The deal is FedEx doesn't deliver it to your house- you have to pick it
up from one of their retail locations. There's one a mile from my house.

You can tell when it arrives there from the tracking number- and they
email you as well. With this service, I usually get stuff in two days-
even cross country- and the USPS never gets near it.

I don't know what other online retailer use this service- but I love it!

--
The taxpayers are sending congressmen on expensive trips overseas. It
might be worth it, except they keep coming back.
- Will Rogers

[The Real Bev]

This is disturbing. When I tried to log in to Costco, I got the 'access
denied' message. This has happened to bank/CC logins too. No idea what
causes it, and it generally goes away after a while.


--
Cheers, Bev
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run
out of other people's money." --Maggie Thatcher

[The Real Bev]

Amazon (or maybe ebay) hassome transparent plastic ones (with heat
sinks) for ~$8, but there's no real need -- the thing is perfectly happy
hanging from one of its cables. Somewhere you can also get post-like
things to enable you to easily stack a number of them together.

[Arlen Holder]

On 1 Sep 2018 20:58:47 GMT, The Real Bev wrote:

> This is disturbing. When I tried to log in to Costco, I got the 'access
> denied' message. This has happened to bank/CC logins too. No idea what
> causes it, and it generally goes away after a while.

I have both the Frys cards and the Costco cards.
They're both the same price (essentially).
Does anyone have any input as to which are better?

[Anssi Saari]

Arlen Holder <arlen...@nospam.net> writes:

> BTW, I've been thinking about that suggestion to format the flash card in a
> special way so that it simply becomes an *extension to memory*.
>
> Has anyone here done that yet?
> Or will I be the first?

I suppose it's fine although the SD card is slower than phone memory
(usually). But then, slow storage is way better than no storage.