Q: Is there any functional hardware on iPhones not ALREADY on Android?

[arlen holder]

Q: *Is there any functional hardware on iPhones not ALREADY on Android?*

While there is extremely well known hardware functionality on Android that
is not on iPhones (e.g., expansion slots as just one glaring example), are
there _any_ useful hardware features on iPhones that are not ALREADY on
Android?

Q: Is there any functional hardware on iPhones not ALREADY on Android?

NOTE: We're not talking trade names, or other marketing branding pinout
bullshit like the proprietary lightning connector, but actual _useful_
hardware functionality (e.g., removable batteries, built-in stylus,
expansion slots, headphone jacks, dual sims, fm radios, 5g modems, etc.).

*Q: Is there any functional hardware on iPhones not ALREADY on Android?*

[Libor Striz]

arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> Wrote in message:

> Q: *Is there any functional hardware on iPhones not ALREADY on Android?*

Is there any functional hardware on Android not present on iPhones,
causing users not to happily buy them ? :-)

For each detail with answer=No
the absence belongs to pros for Apple,
and even for some iPhone users. :-)


--
Poutnik ( the Wanderer )



----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

[arlen holder]

On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 06:15:54 +0100 (GMT+01:00), Libor Striz wrote:

> Is there any functional hardware on Android not present on iPhones,
> causing users not to happily buy them ? :-)

Hi Poutnik,

Please don't play silly games (please stay on topic).

*THIS IS A VERY SIMPLE FACTUAL QUESTION ABOUT HARDWARE.*
o Do you have an adult answer to _that_ on-topic HARDWARE question?

This is NOT a Philosophical question about why people love what they love.
o Basic facts about hardware are all that this question asks.

The topic isn't "why" people love iPhones, since we already know why.

If you want the answer to "why" people love iPhones, look here instead:
o Why is the iPhone/iPad one of the most successful mobile device platforms in the market?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/x8QlA5W81Yw/0vJ-4gaOBAAJ>

This is a simple question about HARDWARE, Poutnik.

For example...
o My $130 LG Stylo 3 Plus has a removable battery, FM Radio, & expansion slot
I am not aware that _any_ of that hardware is on even a $1,500 iPhone.

Is it?

In addition...
o My Stylo also has a stylus (but maybe some iPhones have a stylus?)
o And, very soon Android phones will have 5G modems where it will be
_years_ before Apple/Intel can even approach Qualcomm speeds.

The question is a simple question based purely on HARDWARE.

It can be asked and answered either of two obvious ways:
Q: What key hardware is on Android phones, but not on iPhones?
Q: What key hardware is on iPhones but not on Android phones.

> For each detail with answer=No
> the absence belongs to pros for Apple,
> and even for some iPhone users. :-)

The question is a simple FACTUAL question about HARDWARE only.
o Is there _any_ key hardware on iPhones that is NOT on Android phones?

It can be asked and answered either of two obvious ways:
Q: What key hardware is on Android phones, but not on iPhones?
Q: What key hardware is on iPhones but not on Android phones.

Do you have an adult answer to _that_ on-topic HARDWARE question?

[Libor Striz]

arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> Wrote in message:

> On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 06:15:54 +0100 (GMT+01:00), Libor Striz wrote:

>> Is there any functional hardware on Android not present on iPhones,
> causing users not to happily buy them ? :-)

> Hi Poutnik,Please don't play silly games (please stay on topic).*THIS IS A VERY SIMPLE FACTUAL QUESTION ABOUT HARDWARE..

In fact, this topic was thrown here and there recently so many times,
that it became a silly game in the first place,
at the border of a trolling question class
:-)

So stay adult,
keep your emotions in the bay
and try to ask something else..

[arlen holder]

On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 08:31:52 +0100 (GMT+01:00), Libor Striz wrote:

> In fact, this topic was thrown here and there recently so many times,
> that it became a silly game in the first place,
> at the border of a trolling question class

Hi Poutnik,

My credibility is stellar.
o Nobody can find me wrong even once on material fact, Poutnik.

Not even once (trust me, they've tried).

One major reason I understand so much about the actual FACTS about how iOS
differs from Android is that I speak facts - not propaganda, Poutnik.

Another reason I know so much about the differences, is that I ask & find
answers to these tough realistic questions that Apple Marketing & Google
Marketing will _never_ tell the users, Poutnik.

That's again because I speak only FACTS, Poutnik.
o Facts.

Yes, Facts.

Hence, let's both stay adult with (1) Facts & (2) adult logic., shall we?
o This thread is about HARDWARE
o This thread is about HARDWARE on one platform, not on the other
o This thread asks for a LIST of HARDWARE on one but not on the other
o This thread asks for a CURRENT LIST OF HARDWARE (not 10 years old!)

Do we _agree_ on that incredibly simple salient fact above, Poutnik?
o If so, I am _unaware_ that the topic was 'asked so many times' already.

If you actually _believe_ your statement, then you should be able to find
at least _one_ thread that supports your belief system, right?

If you think this question has been asked many times, then I simply ask:
o Point to just one thread where you feel _this_ question was asked.

You only need to name just one HARDWARE LIST thread please.
o But if you can't name just one thread, then your statement is incorrect.

HINT: I had searched back a few years, as always, _before_ I asked:
DOUBLEHINT: The _closest_ thread is this one, but it's not the same topic.
o What would a 10X more expensive phone actually buy me that actually matters?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/SfGKMN43_ss/KvnBasb3AQAJ>
TRIPLEHINT: There are "components" of the question scattered about:
o Is Apple acknowledging that many users want an active stylus on their phones?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/8W81hkZ9IF8/7ezpYaaPEQAJ>

In short, Poutnik, I expect your credibility to be as stellar as mine
o I don't expect you to act like an Apple Apologist child, for example.

If your belief system supports your statement, then you need to only:
o Name just one thread that supports your statement

Please name just one fact to support your statement, Poutnik.
o Name just one

--
If you can't name just one, what adults generally do, is agree on the
facts, and perhaps apologize for making stuff up that is untrue.

[Libor Striz]

arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> Wrote in message:

> On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 08:31:52 +0100 (GMT+01:00), Libor Striz wrote:> In fact, this topic was thrown here and there recently so many times,> that it became a silly game in the first place,> at the border of a trolling question class

> Hi Poutnik,My credibility is stellar.o Nobody can find me wrong even once on material fact, Poutnik.

> Not even once (trust me, they've tried).

One major reason I understand so much about the actual FACTS about how iOSdiffers from Android is that I speak facts - not propaganda, Poutnik.

Well, you have fully missed my point this time. :-)

Lack of humbleness does not add creditibility.
Focus on facts can screw other things.

[badgolferman]

arlen holder wrote:

>Q: *Is there any functional hardware on iPhones not ALREADY on
>Android?*
>
>While there is extremely well known hardware functionality on Android
>that is not on iPhones (e.g., expansion slots as just one glaring

>example), are there any useful hardware features on iPhones that are

>not ALREADY on Android?
>
>Q: Is there any functional hardware on iPhones not ALREADY on Android?
>
>NOTE: We're not talking trade names, or other marketing branding
>pinout bullshit like the proprietary lightning connector, but actual

>useful hardware functionality (e.g., removable batteries, built-in

>stylus, expansion slots, headphone jacks, dual sims, fm radios, 5g
>modems, etc.).
>
>*Q: Is there any functional hardware on iPhones not ALREADY on
>Android?*

I cannot answer your question directly since I don't have much
experience with Android devices, however beauty is in the eye of the
beholder. For one thing the current Apple phones have a superior
processor and possible other hardware architecture that makes them
faster in many benchmark tests despite supposedly inferior specs. The
operating system probably processes instructions more efficiently hence
leading to better benchmark scores. I'm not a big user of the camera
but Apple pictures seem to look better than the Android pictures.

My experience also shows Apple phones to inherently be more stable and
require far less forced reboots. My wife and older son's Android
phones had to be rebooted probably weekly to make them work again.
That's one reason my wife switched to an Apple 6S phone recently,
although she still prefers the Android interface.

One feature I think is superior for Apple phones is the ability to back
up an image to iTunes for restoration or transfer to another phone.
I'm not a big fan of OTA backups, although even that is superior to the
minimum backup/restoration capabilities of Android devices.

None of this answers your question about hardware features which I
think you already knew the answer is no. Android phones have an open
operating system which leads to far more opportunities for third party
vendors to create innovative applications and accessories.

[arlen holder]

On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 16:38:38 +0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:

> I cannot answer your question directly since I don't have much
> experience with Android devices, however beauty is in the eye of the
> beholder.

Hi badgolferman,

Thank you for being an adult in attempting to answer the hardware question.

While I have owned both types of devices, I never claim to be an expert.
I only claim to speak facts (and to apply adult logic to those facts).

Hence, I appreciate your facts.

> For one thing the current Apple phones have a superior
> processor and possible other hardware architecture that makes them
> faster in many benchmark tests despite supposedly inferior specs.

I am well aware there are _claims_ that the processor is "superior".

For example:
o Apple iPhone X A11 Bionic 6-Core CPU Crushes All Android Challengers In Benchmark Leak
<https://hothardware.com/news/apple-a11-bionic-processor-crushes-challengers-benchmark-leak#ebhEHAyD0cD1pypI.99>
(Note that article said it only had a "single leaked benchmark" so we'd
need more actual facts.)

I can also state that, in general, Android phones have _more_ cores.
o And, Apple cores are, in a sense, overstated, due to encryption

We can also both agree that memory management is different.
As are the GPUs & modems & FM radios, etc.

I'm also aware that the lightning connector is "different".
I'm aware of the myriad camera claims (mostly unsupported by fact).
etc.

If we rely on marketing bullshit - we'll not get anywhere, for example.

In the case of the CPU & GPU, it's very hard to compare one-to-one because
the entire ecosystem is different in how things are managed, so we need to
be adults when we compare the CPU & GPU between the devices.

The scientific problem with benchmarks is well known, where additional
problems occur with respect to Apple benchmarks for obvious reasons:
a. Apple doesn't publish benchmarks AFAIK, but most are run on "new" phones
b. Apple throttles iPhones, so, benchmarks must be on throttled phones too

In addition, while Apple does their own designs, they use the same
underlying process technology and ARM IP as everyone else, I think (is that
a correct statement?), so, we'd have to look at what would be Apple's
logical and factual "secret sauce" if we're going to claim superior GPU/CPU
performance.

> The
> operating system probably processes instructions more efficiently hence
> leading to better benchmark scores.

Remember, let's stay out of bullshit marketing claims.
o Let's talk actual facts.

If it's a valid statement that the Apple CPU/GPU hardware, as found in a
users' iPhone (which means it has to take CPU throttling into account) is
"superior" to the CPU/GPU hardware in Android phones, let's look at those
"facts" with adult open eyes.

Does anyone have any reliable cites backing up that the Apple CPU/GPU
hardware is somehow better than Android? If so, what's the actual secret
sauce that Apple actually has in terms of GPU/CPU performance that no other
manufacturer has?

HINT: I expect the answer to be their development team, which may be true,
but it _still_ needs to be supported by facts - not mere meaningless
marketing influenced guesses (which anyone can do).

> I'm not a big user of the camera
> but Apple pictures seem to look better than the Android pictures.

I don't think _anyone_ has ever shown facts that back up that statement.

I fully realize that Apple spends millions of dollars (perhaps every day)
on influencing people's "opinion" on the camera output quality, but, as you
know, the *best* benchmarks in the world, prove otherwise.

I won't belabor camera output since iPhone versus Android camera output
already has extensive, reliable, and well-known consistently published
benchmarks which only the apologists deny the veracity of, but where the
apologists _never_ provide even a _single_ fact which backs up their belief
system.

Hence, the facts are extremely clear on QOR of camera output!

> My experience also shows Apple phones to inherently be more stable and
> require far less forced reboots.

Hmmmm... that's not really a HARDWARE item, is it?
o Yes, I know stability _can_ be _influenced_ by hardware (and software).

And, um, I own iPads and Android phones, for many years, where all of mine
are stable, but where my wife's iPad is constantly locking up lately.
o Trust me, I _test_ a ton of software - every single day!

For example, this is a test I ran just this morning, by way of example:
<https://i.postimg.cc/SsLffRyG/delimiter01.jpg>
o Best free SMS app for Android
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/up2NoEHr9M8/atinCKpaEAAJ>

> My wife and older son's Android
> phones had to be rebooted probably weekly to make them work again.
> That's one reason my wife switched to an Apple 6S phone recently,
> although she still prefers the Android interface.

I test probably a thousand apps a year on my iOS & Android devices.
o The stability between them is, for me, 'about the same'

For example, here's a screenshot, just now, of the tests I'm running on
Android for apps that convert speech dictation to documented text:
<https://i.postimg.cc/2S5J72k3/test02.png>

And, here's a screenshot, taken just now, of the iOS apps I'm testing
for the work-in-progress iCalendar & Password-database tutorials:
<https://i.postimg.cc/tCqFsckZ/test01.jpg>

Easily, I test over a thousand apps every year on _both_ devices.
o I find the stability to be "about the same".

Also, I go "off road" on both devices, e.g., here's my iOS home screen:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8196701homescreen02.jpg>
And here's my Android homescreen:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4246002homescreen01.jpg>

I go off road all the time, on both platforms, & the stability, is, IMHO
o About the same

While stability depends greatly on exactly what you loaded and what you run
o AFAIK, neither platform is known to be "unstable" (IMHO).

However, if you have a reliable cite that the Android or iOS hardware is,
somehow, less stable (or more stable) than the other, let's read it.

> One feature I think is superior for Apple phones is the ability to back
> up an image to iTunes for restoration or transfer to another phone.

Hmmmm.... is that a HARDARE item, & does that not exist on Android?

I realize you said "superior", but this thread is about whether or not
something "exists".

This thread was intended to be a simple _short_ list of hardware that is on
iOS or on Android that is just NOT on the other platform.

Bearing in mind that some hardware items are on both platforms, but not on
the "most recent", but they still exist, such as "headphone jacks", so they
don't go on this very short list.

So far, the only hardware items I know about on Android not on iOS are:
o Removable batteries
o Expansion slots
o FM radios (I think)
o 5G modems (soon)
o (what else are we missing?)

So far, the only hardware items I know about on Android not on iOS are:
o Lightning connector
o (what else are we missing?)

> I'm not a big fan of OTA backups, although even that is superior to the
> minimum backup/restoration capabilities of Android devices.

It seems you may be greatly overly influenced by Apple Marketing. :)
<https://i.postimg.cc/X7jYKSTW/backup01.jpg>

As you may be aware, I factory wipe my Android phone about once a month,
simply because it's so trivially easy to back everything up locally and to
return everything back to exactly how I want it to be (where I'm meticulous
where every icon has to go back in EXACTLY the same spot it was previously
in, for example!).

As just one example, here's my home screen on Android which literally is
backed up and returned to EXACTLY the positions each icon was in before the
factory wipe. <https://i.postimg.cc/X7jYKSTW/backup01.jpg>

But, as you noted, backup is not a hardware feature. :)

> None of this answers your question about hardware features which I
> think you already knew the answer is no. Android phones have an open
> operating system which leads to far more opportunities for third party
> vendors to create innovative applications and accessories.

You bring up "apps" where we already know the answer to the same question
asked of "apps" instead of being asked of "hardware".

This question is all about HARDWARE.

You brought up some good points, where I might add some:
o The CPU/GPU may be _appreciably_ different (we need facs)
o The lightning connector _is_ different (functionality may be the same)
o (Anything else by way of hardware functionality to consider?)

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[nospam]

In article <q5bts8$nt2$1...@news.mixmin.net>, arlen holder

<ar...@arlen.com> wrote:

> I can also state that, in general, Android phones have _more_ cores.

meaningless, and also false.

> o And, Apple cores are, in a sense, overstated, due to encryption

nonsense. two totally separate things.

[badgolferman]

arlen holder wrote:

>You bring up "apps" where we already know the answer to the same
>question asked of "apps" instead of being asked of "hardware".
>
>This question is all about HARDWARE.

Yes, I knew that, but I'm too lazy to do all the research you're good
at doing. Everything I wrote was my own opinion and experience only.
Hopefully it will open the door for others here with far more knowledge
than myself to chime in.

[arlen holder]

On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 19:08:23 +0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:

> Yes, I knew that, but I'm too lazy to do all the research you're good
> at doing. Everything I wrote was my own opinion and experience only.
> Hopefully it will open the door for others here with far more knowledge
> than myself to chime in.

Hi badgolferman,

I appreciate that you tried, where you know that it may very well be that
there's absolutely nothing by way of hardware that Apple has over the
Android manufacturers.

I have had both platforms for years, as you know, where I can't think of
_anything_ that Apple has, by way of hardware, that Android doesn't already
have.

The closest I can think of is the lightning connector, but that's not a
go/nogo situation like FM radios, expansion slots, and removable batteries
are.

It's just a different hardware pinout, so to speak, on the same item
(which is mainly a dual charge & data transfer port).

It may very well be that there is nothing Apple has by way of hardware
o But I'm not afraid of facts so - that's why I ask - let's see the facts.

*If nobody can come up with any facts, then _that_ alone tells us a lot!*

[arlen holder]

Hi nospam,

FACTS + LOGIC.
o That's all I ever ask of anyone.

Is there _any_ iPhone hardware not _already_ on Android?
o If yes, then explain hardware on iPhones that isn't _already_ on Android.

If "no", then this should prove to be a very short thread, nospam.

FACTS:
This thread is a simple question about facts.
o I'm not afraid of the facts, nospam.

FACTS:
You know why I'm not afraid of facts, nospam?
o It's because my belief system is _not_ threatened, by facts.

In fact, my belief system is _strengthened_ by facts!
o My belief system is based _solely_ on evidentiary facts, nospam.

Not on marketing propaganda.

FACTS:
All iPhones (AFAIK) use CPUs based on ARM RISC architecture, right?
o The vast majority of Android phones use ARM RISC architecture, right?

So what's Apple's "secret sauce" over everyone else (if any)?

FACTS:
It's a simple factual question brought on by the upcoming Apple 5G debacle:
Q: Is there _any_ hardware on iPhones that not _already_ on Android?

To his credit, badgolferman suggested perhaps the processor hardware.
o The SoC consists of CPU, GPU, LTE modem, multimedia processor,
o security, signal processor, AI accelerator and often also units for
o Bluetooth and Wi-Fi.

"This variety of features makes it difficult to talk about the fastest
mobile phone processor" in and of itself, and, that "fastest" title changes
like the seasons.

LOGIC:
Since Qualcomm is a supplier to most smartphone manufacturers, we first
need to ask why Apple, Samsung and Huawei manufacture their own chipsets.

o Custom cores versus ARM cores, what is it all about?
<https://www.androidauthority.com/arm-cortex-core-custom-core-kryo-explained-664777/>
"What is the point of designing a custom ARM core? To design a
custom core is expensive, you need to employ a team of highly
skilled CPU engineers over a long period (several years) to build
a CPU core, which is at best a few percentage points faster than
your rival, plus it will become obsolete in a matter of months.
*The 'why' is _marketing_*

OK. Marketing.
o That's not unexpected.

People whose belief systems are imaginary _eat_ up Marketing propaganda.
o But I'm seeking facts.

LOGIC:
I'm not claiming that any Android manufacturer has any edge in CPUs over
Apple, nor am I claiming the reverse ... simply becuase I form my belief
system based on evidence - where Apple would require something that the
others don't have ... a secret sauce ... that just isn't in evidence
(AFAICT).

LOGIC:
The point is that Apple would need a "secret sauce" if we were to claim
that their cores are appreciably better than anyone elses' cores since
Apple-designed processors use the same ARM's 64-bit RISC architecture as
both Samsung & Huawei do.

FACT:
ARM has over a half dozen 64-bit architectural licensees, namely:
o AMD
o Apple
o Applied Micro
o Broadcom
o Cavium
o Huawei
o Nvidia
o Samsung
o (and ARM itself, of course)

FACT:
AFAIK these explicitly design smartphone CPU cores:
o Apple
o Qualcomm
o Samsung
o (and ARM itself, of course)
o (any others?)

LOGIC:
In summary, Apple licenses the same technology as do Android smartphone
manufacturers, where, if we remove market4ing propaganda, there's precious
little on the net that is a FACT which supports any observation of Apple
being faster (or slower) overall than comparable Android CPUs.

Hence, for the SoC (which is a complex beast), they're "about the same".

If you wish to claim otherwise, simply provide a cite which, rest assured
nospam (since you played your silly games in the SMS/MMS thread), I will
actually _look_ at your cites, and, rest assured, since I'm of at least
average intelligence I will completely comprehend what any cite you
provides actually says.

So please don't play your silly games like you did in that SMS/MMS thread.
o If you provide a cite, it should actually back up what you claim, nospam.

[David Taylor]

> arlen holder wrote:
>
>> You bring up "apps" where we already know the answer to the same
>> question asked of "apps" instead of being asked of "hardware".
>>
>> This question is all about HARDWARE.

Then you are posting in the wrong group, as this group
(comp.mobile.android) is primarily about the Android operating system,
which is SOFTWARE.

--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu

[Libor Striz]

David Taylor <david-...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> Wrote in message:

> > arlen holder wrote:>

>> This question is all about HARDWARE.

> Then you are posting in the wrong group, as this group (comp.mobile.android) is primarily about the Android operating system, which is SOFTWARE.

Primarily yes,
but in wider sense,
it covers also the hardware platforms
it is used on.

There is a strong correlation between used hardware and OS.

[Libor Striz]

arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> Wrote in message:

FACTS:You know why I'm not afraid of facts, nospam?
o It's because my belief system is _not_ threatened, by facts.
In fact, my belief system is _strengthened_ by facts!
o My belief system is based _solely_ on evidentiary facts, nospam.

Systems based solely on evidentiary facts
are called knowledge systems.

Belief systems are potentially threatened by new facts,
as facts can be in contradiction with these systems.

Belief is by principle based on lack of facts and evidence,
just predicting these lacking facts to exist.
It is based on other facts, experience, intuition, guesses, wishes and other beliefs.

If I say I have returned a borrowed book to your book shelf,
you may believe I have done so, if you trust me.
When you have the evidence after eventual checking,
you do not believe it any more - you know it.

While you were just believing it, you had no evidence.

[arlen holder]

On Sat, 2 Mar 2019 08:31:36 +0100 (GMT+01:00), Libor Striz wrote:

> While you were just believing it, you had no evidence.

Hi Poutnik,

It's a very simple question.

If I open one of my chemistry book and I find, instead, one of my
electrical engineering books is inside that chemistry book, then I'd say
that the topic on the cover is not the topic inside.
<https://i.postimg.cc/13cj3HQW/ee.jpg>

Please stay on topic - it's a VERY SHORT LIST of hardware we're asking:
o There is a _simple_ answer to the question, and it's a small set

For example, this hardware is likely only on Android and NOT on iPhones:
o Removable battery
o Expansion slot
o FM Radio
o 5G Modem
o (anything else?)

As far as has been suggested, this is hardware on iPhones not on Android:
o Apple-designed ARM cores
o Lightning connector
o (anything else?)

[Libor Striz]

arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> Wrote in message:

I believe the answer to the subject question
was a priori known,
especially if you have long detailed experience
with both platforms.

It is more about, "When two do the same, it is not the same".

[arlen holder]

On Sat, 2 Mar 2019 09:30:46 +0100 (GMT+01:00), Libor Striz wrote:

> It is more about, "When two do the same, it is not the same".

Hi Poutnik,

This is my last post to you in this thread.
o You're just playing silly stupid childish meaningless games.

Even as the question is simple, it's clear that either
a. You either don't comprehend even this _simple_ question, or
b. More likely - you comprehend - but you are wholly ignorant of the answer.

In either case, you're wasting _everyone's_ time with your childish drivel.
o Stop it.

It's clear you don't know have a clue as to the answer to the question.
o Stop proving that you're ignorant (of the answer).

Just stop it.

[Libor Striz]

arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> Wrote in message:

> On Sat, 2 Mar 2019 09:30:46 +0100 (GMT+01:00), Libor Striz wrote:> It is more about, "When two do the same, it is not the same".Hi Poutnik,This is my last post to you in this thread.o You're just playing silly stupid childish meaningless games.

Why do you provide evidence to my suspicions ?

[arlen holder]

On Sat, 2 Mar 2019 06:34:38 +0000, David Taylor wrote:

> Then you are posting in the wrong group, as this group
> (comp.mobile.android) is primarily about the Android operating system,
> which is SOFTWARE.

Empirically, this ng has covered both, as you can see from a search at:
o http://tinyurl.com/comp-mobile-android
o http://comp.mobile.android.narkive.com

However, you bring up a point in that it's a good question whether this ng
is only software or if it's also hardware.

Certainly there must be the original RFC we can check out to be sure.

[David Taylor]

On 02/03/2019 06:57, Libor Striz wrote:
[]

> Primarily yes,
> but in wider sense,
> it covers also the hardware platforms
> it is used on.
>
> There is a strong correlation between used hardware and OS.

But in this case, just an excuse for a troll to spam multiple groups. I
make use of the killfile to keep selected messages out!

[arlen holder]

On Sat, 2 Mar 2019 10:19:18 +0000, David Taylor wrote:

> But in this case, just an excuse for a troll to spam multiple groups. I
> make use of the killfile to keep selected messages out!

Hi David Taylor.

Please comprehend the question below & please answer that question.
o Name just one

FACT + LOGIC:
It would be too much to expect an abject apology from a keyword troll like
you proved to be; but I do expect you to be an adult and at least
_comprehend_ facts stated below, and then to answer the 3-word question:
o Name just one

LOGIC:
I agree that you're completely welcome to continue to form your belief
system based on absolutely zero facts that you can list, the fact is that I
invest a ton of energy & effort to PURPOSEFULLY HELP people on the Android
newsgroup, which, if you're not aware of, then that's further proof of your
belief system being based on an imaginary foundation.

FACT:
Since I speak only facts, my statements can _all_ be easily verified.
o I only speak fact - as my belief system is an adult evidentiary one

Below are relevant cites from the one page alone at:
<https://comp.mobile.android.narkive.com/>

Extensive help to "The Real Bev" in this thread:
o Outline fonts
<https://comp.mobile.android.narkive.com/S8yHt3XF/outline-fonts>

Well detailed tests of all suggested SMS apps in this thread:

o Best free SMS app

<https://comp.mobile.android.narkive.com/E0L5ncr9/best-free-sms-app-for-android>

Tests posted and still in progress for this thread:
o good software to organize and manage contacts
<https://comp.mobile.android.narkive.com/n7Yk4fdd/good-software-to-organize-and-manage-contacts>

Extensive tests ongoing for fast-charge current graphing
o moving graphs of fast charge current & voltage over time?
<https://comp.mobile.android.narkive.com/YBpB3Rg6/what-free-android-app-do-you-use-to-obtain-moving-graphs-of-fast-charge-current-voltage-over-time>

This is a purposefully helpul tutorial, which keyword trolls infested:
o How to get up & running on a free public vpn service in minutes on Android or iOS
<https://comp.mobile.android.narkive.com/Tx1xCUJ4/how-to-get-up-running-on-a-free-public-vpn-service-in-minutes-on-android-or-ios>

Many tests were done for the OP, spawning an SMS tutorial
o Unable to open MMS messages
<https://comp.mobile.android.narkive.com/hX3M8xa3/unable-to-open-mms-messages>

Many tests were performed to solve this problem
o Copy Android to Windows in a single right click
<https://comp.mobile.android.narkive.com/mwO6eMS3/is-there-any-way-to-set-the-default-win10-to-copy-android-dcim-to-merge-skip-by-default>
etc.

FACTS:
o Those are just on the _one_ page of the most recent threads.
o All of those threads are _purposefully helpful_ posts by me.
o Each one goes DEEPLY into the facts with screenshots & tests

Who expends _that_ much energy purposefully HELPING people?
o It's the rare adult that is so purposefully helpful to others, David.

Where are _your_ purposefully helpful on-topic posts, David?
o Name just one

It would be too much to expect an abject apology from someone like you,
but I do expect you to be an adult and at least _comprehend_ the above.

Hence, I only ask you the 3-word adult test of how much YOU have helped
people on the Android newsgroup, David Taylor, since ADULTS form a belief
system based on actual facts.

Name just one recent thread, David Taylor, where you purposefully posted
content that was on topic in answering a question posed in the Android ng.

o Name just one

--

HINT: Trolls like David Taylor _always_ fail this simple 3-word adult test.

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Fri, 1 Mar 2019 05:42:10 -0000 (UTC), arlen

holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:

> My $130 LG Stylo 3 Plus has a removable battery, FM Radio, & expansion slot

What's an expansion slot?

[nospam]

In article <5j3o7el346oikgn45...@4ax.com>, micky

<NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> > My $130 LG Stylo 3 Plus has a removable battery, FM Radio, & expansion slot
>
> What's an expansion slot?

micro sd card

[arlen holder]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2019 12:30:22 -0500, nospam wrote:

>>> My $130 LG Stylo 3 Plus has a removable battery, FM Radio, & expansion slot
>>
>> What's an expansion slot?
>
> micro sd card

Hi nospam & micky,
I called it an "expansion slot" because it doesn't come with the card.

FACT & LOGIC is all I ask of anyone on this ng.

By sticking to facts & adult logic, we avoid imaginary belief systems.
o The job of Marketing is to _create_ imaginary belief systems

In this thread, by sticking to facts & adult logic, we can conclude:
o Hardware, overall, between the two platforms, is "about the same"
o But Android has a small set of 3 notable hardware advantages

The main 3 hardware advantages of Android over iPhones appears to be only
o Expansion slots
o Removable batteries
o "Some" chip technologies (e.g., 5G modems & FM radios)

Otherwise, the hardware between the two, appears to be "about the same".

--
As the Merovingian would say, the power is in knowing "why".
o "Which brings us to the 'why,' as the Merovingian might say. "
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.usage.english/yVthkU-AM-Y/ygBJ3LqQBQAJ>

[nospam]

In article <q5h69e$h39$1...@news.mixmin.net>, arlen holder

<ar...@arlen.com> wrote:

> The main 3 hardware advantages of Android over iPhones appears to be only
> o Expansion slots
> o Removable batteries
> o "Some" chip technologies (e.g., 5G modems & FM radios)

many android phones, including the google pixel 3/3xl, does not have an
sd slot, 5g or fm radio.

all batteries are removable. some may require a screwdriver. not a big
deal for something replaced rarely, if ever, and easier than replacing
a car battery, which needs to be done about as often and requires more
than a screwdriver.

> Otherwise, the hardware between the two, appears to be "about the same".

not even close to correct.

[arlen holder]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2019 13:41:42 -0500, nospam wrote:
> many android phones, including the google pixel 3/3xl, does not have an
> sd slot, 5g or fm radio.

Hi nospam,

*Facts literally _destroy_ your Apologist belief system, nospam.*

It's always as an apologist that you post, because we could always have
easily said the _same_ thing about the blatant loss of "courageous"
headphone jacks, for example, in the most recent iPhones, nospam (and the
lack of a built-in stylus for the most part).

But since _some_ iPhones have the "courageous" headphone jack (and some iOs
devices, I think, have a stylus), those HARDWARE FUNCTIONALITIES don't go
on the list of things that ZERO iPhones have, nospam.

FACT:
o *ZERO iPhones have an sd slot*
o *ZERO iPhones have a removable battery*
o *ZERO iPhones have a 5G modem*
o (what else?)

FACT:
It's agreed a priori that there are Android phones that do and don't have
an sd slot, 5G, and FM radio, but the key fact is that ZERO iPhones have
them.

LOGIC:
That means that, while they're "about the same" on hardware...
o There is no hardware on iPhones that is not already on Android, and,
o There are a few hardware items on Android that are not on iPhones.

> all batteries are removable. some may require a screwdriver. not a big
> deal for something replaced rarely, if ever, and easier than replacing
> a car battery, which needs to be done about as often and requires more
> than a screwdriver.

Hi nospam,
Your words prove you clearly own a completely imaginary belief system.

Worse, you clearly are attempting the classic Apple Apology, nospam.
o The fact is that iPhone batteries are supremely non removable

I already provided a cite showing _dozens_ of potential things you can
easily destroy when removing an iPhone X battery, nospam, so please stop
playing your silly little Apple Apologists games.

Popping out my Stylo 3 Plus battery takes only my fingernails, nospam:
o Only a Apple Apologist would claim that an iPhone is the same hardware.

>> Otherwise, the hardware between the two, appears to be "about the same".
>
> not even close to correct.

Hi nospam,

Do you actually _believe_ what you write?
o Or do you just make _everything_ up (it's all imaginary to you).

Why are you so deathly afraid of facts, nospam?
o I'm not afraid of facts nospam.

The reason I'm not afraid of facts is my belief system is _based_ on facts.
o The reason you _fear_ facts is that your belief system is entirely imaginary

*Facts literally _destroy_ your Apologist belief system, nospam.*
o In ten seconds no less!

The proof is your answer to this simple 3-word ignorance test, nospam:
o Name just one

NOTE: You will _always_ fail this simple ignorance test nospam.
o That's simply because your belief system is destroyed by mere facts.

If you actually _believe_ what you just wrote, then the test is simple:
o Name just one

If your belief system is not entirely imaginary, you'd answer by:
o Naming just one

[123456789]

arlen holder wrote:

> nospam wrote:

>> all batteries are removable. some may require a screwdriver.

> The fact is that iPhone batteries are supremely non removable

Oh oh. A fact FU. I removed and replaced one in 30 minutes.
Easy peasy. But you'll be happy to know that nospam was
partially wrong. It took a screwdriver AND a hairdryer.

> Popping out my Stylo 3 Plus battery takes only my fingernails

But when you drop your phone you have to pick up 3 pieces... 8-O

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Mon, 4 Mar 2019 01:07:24 -0000 (UTC), arlen

holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:

>
>It's always as an apologist that you post, because we could always have
>easily said the _same_ thing about the blatant loss of "courageous"
>headphone jacks, for example, in the most recent iPhones,

Without a headphone jack, how is the phone supposed to connect to the
AUX input of a car radio?

[arlen holder]

On Sun, 3 Mar 2019 19:45:06 -0700, 123456789 wrote:

> Oh oh. A fact FU. I removed and replaced one in 30 minutes.
> Easy peasy. But you'll be happy to know that nospam was
> partially wrong. It took a screwdriver AND a hairdryer.

Hi 123456789,

*You are a well known bullshitter, 123456789.*
o You remind me of people who remove spark plugs using pliers

*Your entire belief system is literally _threatened_ by facts!*
o Most adults form a belief system which is _supported_ by facts!

FACTS:
o iPhone X Battery Replacement
o Steps = 43 steps
o Difficulty = Moderate

Tools
o P2 Pentalobe Screwdriver
o Spudger
o iOpener
o Tweezers
o iFixit Opening Picks set of 6
o Tri-Point Y000 Screwdriver bit
o Suction handle
o Phillips #000 Screwdriver
o iSclack

Parts
o iPhone X Replacmenet Battery $40 + ~$6 shipping + ~4 $tax = ~50
o iPhone X Battery Adhesive strips
o iPhone X Display Assembly adhesive
o iPhone X Loudspeaker Adhesive Gasket

Before you begin, discharge your iPhone battery below 25%. A charged
lithium-ion battery can catch fire and/or explode if accidentally
punctured.

Power off your iPhone before beginning disassembly.

Remove the two 6.9 mm-long pentalobe screws at the bottom edge of the
iPhone.

If the screws are stripped or damaged, replace the screws.

Opening the iPhone's display will compromise its waterproof seals. Have
replacement seals ready before you proceed past this step, or take care to
avoid liquid exposure if you reassemble your iPhone without replacing the
seals.

Heating the lower edge of the iPhone will help soften the adhesive securing
the display, making it easier to open.

Use a hairdryer or heat gun or prepare an iOpener and apply it to the lower
edge of the iPhone for about a minute in order to soften up the adhesive
underneath.

The next two steps demonstrate the iSclack, a handy tool that we recommend
for anyone doing frequent repairs. If you aren't using the iSclack, skip
down two steps for an alternate method.

If the plastic depth gauge is attached at the center of the iSclack, remove
it now¡Xit's not needed for larger phones like the iPhone X.

Position the suction cups near the bottom edge of the iPhone¡Xone on the
front, and one on the back.

Press both suction cups firmly into place.

If your display or back glass is badly cracked, covering it with a layer of
clear packing tape may allow the suction cups to adhere. The iSclack also
includes two pieces of tape for this purpose.

Hold onto your iPhone securely and close the handle of the iSclack to
slightly separate the screen from the rear case of the phone.

Don't try to completely separate the screen; a small opening along the
bottom edge is all you need.

Insert an opening pick into the gap.

Skip the next two steps and continue to step 7.
If using a single suction handle, apply it to the bottom edge of the phone,
while avoiding the curved portion of the glass.

If your display is badly cracked, covering it with a layer of clear packing
tape may allow the suction cup to adhere. Alternatively, very strong tape
may be used instead of the suction cup. If all else fails, you can
superglue the suction cup to the broken screen.

Pull up on the suction cup with firm, constant pressure to create a slight
gap between the front panel and rear case.

Insert an opening pick into the gap.

The watertight adhesive holding the display in place is very strong;
creating this initial gap takes a significant amount of force. If you're
having a hard time opening a gap, apply more heat, and gently rock the
screen up and down to weaken the adhesive until you create enough of a gap
to insert your tool.

Slide the opening pick around the lower left corner and up the left edge of
the iPhone, slicing through the adhesive holding the display in place.

Don't insert the opening pick too far into the iPhone, or you may cause
damage to internal components.

Re-insert your pick at the bottom edge of the iPhone, and slide it up the
right side to continue separating the adhesive.

Don't insert the pick very far, or you may damage the display cables along
this side of the iPhone. Insert it only a few millimeters, or about the
width of the display bezel.

The top edge of the display is secured with both glue and clips.

Slide the opening pick around the top corner of the display, while gently
pulling or wiggling the display down in the direction of the Lightning
port.

The clips will break if you use too much force. Work carefully and be
patient.

Again, don't insert the pick more than a few millimeters¡Xabout the width of
the display bezel¡Xor you may damage the front panel sensor array.

Slide the pick to the opposite corner and cut any remaining adhesive
securing the display.

Pull on the small nub on the suction cup to remove it from the front panel.

If you used an iSclack and it's still affixed to the iPhone, remove it now.

Open the iPhone by swinging the display up from the left side, like the
back cover of a book.

Don't try to fully separate the display yet, as several fragile ribbon
cables still connect it to the iPhone's logic board.

Lean the display against something to keep it propped up while you're
working on the phone.

During reassembly, lay the display in position, align the clips along the
top edge, and carefully press the top edge into place before snapping the
rest of the display down. If it doesn't click easily into place, check the
condition of the clips around the perimeter of the display and make sure
they aren't bent.

Remove five Y000 screws securing the logic board connector bracket, of the
following lengths:

Three 1.1 mm screws

One 3.1 mm screw

One 3.7 mm screw

Throughout this repair, keep track of each screw and make sure it goes back
exactly where it came from to avoid damaging your iPhone.

Remove the bracket.

The bracket may be lightly adhered in place. Lift gently but firmly to
separate it.

During reassembly, this is a good point to power on your iPhone and test
all functions before you seal the display in place. Be sure to power your
iPhone back down completely before you continue working.
Use the point of a spudger or a clean fingernail to pry the battery
connector up from its socket on the logic board.

Try not to damage the black silicone seal surrounding this and other board
connections. These seals provide extra protection against water and dust
intrusion.

Bend the connector slightly away from the logic board to prevent it from
accidentally making contact with the socket and providing power to the
phone during your repair.

Use the point of a spudger or a fingernail to disconnect the front panel
sensor assembly connector.

Use the point of a spudger or a fingernail to disconnect the OLED panel
cable connector.

To re-attach press connectors like this one, carefully align and press down
on one side until it clicks into place, then repeat on the other side. Do
not press down on the middle. If the connector is misaligned, the pins can
bend, causing permanent damage.

Use the point of a spudger to pry the digitizer cable connector up from its
socket.

This connector's recessed location makes it tricky to reconnect. Take your
time and align it carefully, then gently press it into place with your
fingertip¡Xfirst one side, then the other. You should feel it click into
place.

If any part of your screen doesn't respond to touch after your repair,
disconnect the battery and then re-seat this connector, making sure it
clicks fully into place and that there's no dust or other obstruction in
the socket.

The front panel sensor assembly flex cable is lightly adhered in place.

Carefully lift the cable until the adhesive separates.

Remove the display assembly.

During reassembly, pause here if you wish to replace the waterproof
adhesive around the edges of the display.

Be careful not to touch the three rows of grounding pads near the
bottom of the iPhone.

Remove the seven screws securing the bracket below the Taptic Engine
and speaker:

Two Y000 1.9 mm screws

One Y000 1.2 mm screw

One Y000 1.6 mm screw

One Phillips 2.4 mm screw

One Phillips 1.7 mm screw

One Phillips 1.5 mm screw

Lift the bracket from the edge nearest the battery. Don't try to remove it
fully, as it's still connected via a small flex cable.

While holding the bracket out of the way, use the point of a spudger to pry
up and disconnect the flex cable underneath.

Remove the bracket.
Remove the 2.1 mm Y000 screw securing the speaker connector cover.
Remove the speaker connector cover.
Use the tip of a spudger to pry up and disconnect the speaker connector.
When prying up the speaker, take care not to damage the flex cable you just
disconnected. If necessary, hold it to one side so the speaker has room to
come out.

Insert a spudger under the top edge of the speaker near the edge of the
iPhone's case.

Gently pry up and lift the top edge of the speaker.

When reinstalling the speaker, check the position of the flex cable and
make sure it doesn't get trapped underneath the speaker.
Hold the speaker by its side edges and rock it side-to-side, separating the
adhesive securing it to the bottom edge of the iPhone.

Pull the speaker away from the bottom edge of the iPhone until the adhesive
gasket separates.
Remove the speaker.

The speaker's adhesive gasket is not reusable. Peel away any remaining
adhesive residue with tweezers.

To help protect against water and dust intrusion, replace the adhesive
gasket during reassembly. Prep the area by cleaning it with a bit of
isopropyl alcohol and a lint-free cloth or coffee filter so that the gasket
adheres properly. Install a new gasket onto the speaker, and then install
the speaker.
Remove the 2.3 mm Phillips screw securing the Taptic Engine.
Use a spudger to disconnect the Taptic Engine flex cable by prying it
straight up from its socket
Remove the Taptic Engine.
The iPhone X's battery is secured to the rear case by four pieces of
stretch-release adhesive¡Xone on the top cell, and three on the bottom.

Each piece of adhesive has a black pull-tab at the end, which is lightly
adhered to the side edge of the battery.

Separate the first battery adhesive tab from the bottom edge of the
battery.

Each tab has a small loop in the center; insert a tool through the loop if
you're having trouble grabbing hold of the tab.

Don't jab the battery with any sharp tools. A punctured battery may leak
dangerous chemicals or catch fire.
Repeat the above step to separate the remaining two adhesive tabs from the
bottom edge of the battery.

Take care not to damage the speaker cable connector just below the center
adhesive tab.
In the following steps, you'll pull each tab to slowly stretch out the
adhesive underneath the battery. This special stretch-release adhesive
loses its tack when stretched and then comes out in your hand, allowing you
to lift out the battery with ease.

If the strips break, don't panic! They don't always work as intended. Keep
reading for some additional steps for removing broken strips.

To increase your odds of success:

Don't press down on the battery. Hold the iPhone firmly by its sides.

Keep the strips flat and unwrinkled as you pull.

Pull very slowly, giving the strip time to stretch and separate. It takes
around 15-30 seconds of stretching to remove each strip.

Pull at a low angle so the strip doesn't snag along the bottom edge of the
battery.

If a strip does break off underneath the battery and cannot be retrieved,
move on to the other strips and then continue with the additional steps
below.

Grab one of the outer battery adhesive tabs and slowly pull it away from
the battery, toward the bottom of the iPhone.

Pull steadily, maintaining constant tension on the strip until it slips out
from between the battery and the rear case.

The strip will stretch to many times its original length. Continue pulling
and re-grab the strip near the battery if necessary.

If the battery adhesive tabs break during the removal process, use your
fingers or blunt tweezers to retrieve the remaining length of adhesive, and
continue pulling.

If any of the adhesive strips break underneath the battery and cannot be
retrieved, try to remove the remaining strips, and then proceed as
instructed below.

Repeat the previous step to remove the strip on the opposite side, leaving
the center strip for last.
Remove the center strip, being careful not to snag it on the speaker flex
cable.
he final pull tab lies very close to the Face ID hardware. If damaged, Face
ID can only be repaired by Apple, so work with care.

Peel and separate the pull tab on the final adhesive strip, on the top edge
of the upper battery cell.
Pull and remove the final adhesive strip.

The strip may fling the battery when it separates from the iPhone, so hold
your hand over the battery to secure it¡Xbut don't press down on the battery
itself, or the added pressure may cause the adhesive strip to break off
underneath the battery.

If you removed all four adhesive strips successfully, skip the next step.

Otherwise, if any of the adhesive strips broke off underneath the battery
and could not be retrieved, continue with the next step below.
If any of the adhesive strips broke off and the battery remains stuck to
the rear case, prepare an iOpener or use a hair dryer to heat the rear case
directly behind the battery.

Heat the iPhone until the rear case is slightly too hot to comfortably
touch. Don't overheat the iPhone, or you may accidentally ignite the
battery.

Flip the iPhone back over and thread a strong piece of string (such as
dental floss or a length of thin guitar string) underneath the battery.

Wrap the ends of the string around a cloth (or wear gloves) to protect your
fingers.

Pull the string from side to side in a sawing motion all along the length
of the battery to separate the adhesive. This can take some time since the
adhesive is slow to deform, but with patience it will come free. Do not
deform or damage the battery.

If you choose to use pry tools to lift the battery out of the iPhone, use
extreme caution or you may damage the ribbon cables or the wireless
charging coil directly underneath the battery.
Grasp the battery from the bottom edge and remove it from the iPhone.

Reinstall the Taptic Engine and speaker before installing a new battery.
This helps keep the battery aligned correctly during installation.

When installing the battery, refer to this guide for help replacing your
battery's adhesive strips.

Perform a force restart after reassembly. This can prevent several issues
and simplify troubleshooting.
o Time Required = 1 to 2 hours
<https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+X+Battery+Replacement/103390>

[nospam]

In article <o4dp7ehbgrn9ilv8c...@4ax.com>, micky

<NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> >It's always as an apologist that you post, because we could always have
> >easily said the _same_ thing about the blatant loss of "courageous"
> >headphone jacks, for example, in the most recent iPhones,
>
> Without a headphone jack, how is the phone supposed to connect to the
> AUX input of a car radio?

many phones have ditched the old analog headphone jack for a more
modern *digital* headphone jack, including android, which was actually
first to do so.

either use a usb or lightning cable (depending on android or iphone) or
better yet, bluetooth. or, use an adapter and an existing cable.

[arlen holder]

On Mon, 04 Mar 2019 08:48:31 -0500, nospam wrote:

> many phones have ditched the old analog headphone jack for a more
> modern *digital* headphone jack, including android, which was actually
> first to do so.

Hi nospam,

FACT + LOGIC:
*It's interesting that nospam compares the iPhone to Android POS phones!*

While technically correct, the _first_ phones sans this basic functionality
were clearly *piece-of-shit phones out of China*, namely the worthless
o LeEco Le 2, Le 2Pro and Le Max2
<https://www.androidauthority.com/first-phones-without-headphone-port-run-android-687910/>

As for nospam considering total loss of hardware functionality "modern",
o The total & complete lack of a headphone jack is, to nospam, "modern"
o The total & complete lack of expansion memory is, to nospam, "modern"
o The total & complete lack of removable batteries is, to nospam, "modern"
o The total & complete inability of 5G speeds is, to nospam, "modern"
o The total & complete lack of FM radios is, to nospam, "modern"
etc.

See this "annoying as fuck" opinion piece about that "modern" concept:
o Phones without headphone jacks are here... and they're annoying AF
<https://mashable.com/2016/07/23/killing-headphone-jack-sucks/#sHoXWb2kBOqo>

> either use a usb or lightning cable (depending on android or iphone) or
> better yet, bluetooth. or, use an adapter and an existing cable.

It appears that facts _threaten_ the foundation of nospam's belief system.

Out of who knows how many hundreds of Android models that have been offered
for sale, only about two dozen Android models in toto utterly lack this
extremely useful standard hardware functionality.

This is the quote that came from that list as of February 2018:
"Considering how many phones are out there, *it┬ a pretty small list*."

Notice how extremely _few_ name-brand well-selling phones are on this list!

o Essential PH-1
o Google Pixel 2
o Google Pixel 2 XL
o HTC 10 Pro/Lifestyle
o HTC Bolt
o HTC U Play
o HTC U Ultra
o HTC U11
o HTC U11+
o Huawei Mate 10 Pro
o Huawei Mediapad M5
o LeEco Le 2
o LeEco Le 2 Pro
o LeEco Le Max 2
o LeEco Le Pro 3
o LeEco Le S3
o Lenovo Moto Z
o Lenovo Moto Z Force Droid
o Nokia 8 Sirocco
o Razer Phone
o Smartisan Juanguo Pro
o Xiomi MIX2 & Mi 6
o Xperia XZ2
<https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2018/02/25/phones-no-3-5mm-jack-headphone/>

Since then, in December 2018, Samsung has tried removing HW functionality
to distinguish its mid-range phones from the high end:
o Samsung Galaxy A8
<https://www.tomsguide.com/us/galaxy-a8s-specs-price-headphone-jack,news-28801.html>

That's about two dozen, in toto, almost all of which are pieces of shit.
o Since facts matter, please let me know if any are missing in this list!

*It's interesting that nospam compares the iPhone to Android POS phones!*

[nospam]

In article <q5je0t$usb$1...@news.mixmin.net>, arlen holder

<ar...@arlen.com> wrote:

> While technically correct, the _first_ phones sans this basic functionality
> were clearly *piece-of-shit phones out of China*, namely the worthless
> o LeEco Le 2, Le 2Pro and Le Max2

wrong as usual.

the first android phone without an analog headphone jack was *eleven*
*years* *ago*, with the t-mobile g1, and it didn't even use a standard
mini usb or micro usb, but rather an unusual extusb.

<https://www.engadget.com/2008/09/23/confirmed-t-mobile-g1-has-no-3-5mm-
headphone-jack/>
...the G1 eschews a standard 3.5mm headphone jack for its proprietary
ExtUSB connector, meaning you'll need custom headphones or an adapter
to plug in your own. What's worse, the adapter won't be available
immediately at launch, just a bundled headset. Why, HTC? Why

current android phones without an analog headphone jack include the
flagship google pixel 3, currently selling for $799 and *up*, along
with the previous pixel 2.

<https://www.verizonwireless.com/smartphones/google-pixel-3/?sku=sku3210
097>
<https://www.verizonwireless.com/smartphones/google-pixel-3-xl/>

here's google's reason:
<https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/04/google-dropped-the-pixels-headphone-j
ack-to-lay-the-groundwork-for-a-bezel-free-phone/>
łThe primary reason [for dropping the jack] is establishing a
mechanical design path for the future,˛ Google product chief Mario
Queiroz told TechCrunch after the event. łWe want the display to go
closer and closer to the edge. Our team said, Śif weąre going to make
the shift, letąs make it sooner, rather than later.ą Last year may
have been too early. Now there are more phones on the market.˛

samsung has stated that they will be switching to a digital headphone
jack over the next year or so. they've already begun with one model and
will be rolling it out to the rest of their lineup (they have a *lot*
of models so it won't be an instant switchover).

one major advantage of going digital are inexpensive noise canceling
headphones, which can use the phone's existing ambient microphones and
noise cancelation circuitry, and without the need for its own bulky
battery pack:
<https://www.theverge.com/2016/4/12/11402874/jbl-reflect-aware-type-c-no
ise-canceling-headphones>

the entire industry is moving to digital, including intel:

<https://www.cnet.com/news/intel-expects-usb-type-c-could-help-kill-the-
3-5mm-audio-jack/>
Intel says there are good reasons to say goodbye to the 3.5mm audio
jack and bring headphones, earbuds and microphones into the digital
era.
...
For one thing, the 3.5mm audio jack takes up precious volume inside
phones, which we all want to be as slim as possible. For another, the
analog circuitry of 3.5mm audio can cause interference that disrupts
other electronics in a phone, Saunders said.
And digital audio opens up possibilities for lots of sound-processing
options without requiring expensive headphones or earbuds. That
includes audio effects to make music sound like it's playing in a big
concert hall, or signal processing to cancel noise like jet engines
or rumbling trains. "All of those come into play if audio is in a
digital domain," Saunders said, which would let phone makers offer
premium features without having to sign deals with premium audio
companies like Dolby or Bose.

[123456789]

arlen holder wrote:
> 123456789 wrote:

>> I removed and replaced one [iPhone battery] in 30 minutes.

> iPhone X Battery Replacement Steps = 43 steps

Your posted instruction manual (snipped) included screen replacement.
All I replaced was the battery. Much simpler in most phones.

> iPhone X Replacmenet Battery...

I didn't replace an "X" battery. Difficulty depends on the phone. For
example my Android phone's battery is much more difficult to replace
than the iPhone was. However at this point it appears that the battery
will outlast the usefulness of the phone which is the norm for most
people. None of my devices have battery doors anymore. I don't miss
them. YMMV...

[123456789]

arlen holder wrote:

> The total & complete lack of a headphone jack is, to nospam,
> "modern"

Recently the wife got a new iPad that DOES HAVE a headphone jack. BUT
the new brand x case that I got for her had a too small headphone hole
and the plug wouldn't fit. I offered to drill it out but she just
attached the Lightning headphone adapter to the headphone cord and has
been using it that way ever since. No big difficulty that I can see...

> Out of who knows how many hundreds of Android models that have been
> offered for sale, only about two dozen Android models in toto utterly
> lack this extremely useful standard hardware functionality.

Yup. Me and nospam have argued this endlessly in the past. However I
think he's right on this one. Someday headphone jacks will be as scarce
as battery doors... ;)

[arlen holder]

On Mon, 04 Mar 2019 11:02:36 -0500, nospam wrote:

> the first android phone without an analog headphone jack was *eleven*
> *years* *ago*, with the t-mobile g1, and it didn't even use a standard
> mini usb or micro usb, but rather an unusual extusb.

Hi nospam,

FACT:
THANK YOU very much for unearthing an earlier decade-old POS Android phone
which shipped sans the basic headphone jack functionality!

LOGIC:
*You're comparing the iPhone to ancient piece-of-shit Android phones!*

FACT:
I've compiled a list of _all_ the known POS Android phones sans the jack.

LOGIC:
*I appreciate your facts, since facts _bolster_ my belief system.*
o My belief system is _based_ on facts (see the list below).

Hence, the list of known almost all POS Android phones lacking this HW is:

o Essential PH-1
o Google Pixel 2
o Google Pixel 2 XL

o Google Pixel 3

o HTC 10 Pro/Lifestyle
o HTC Bolt
o HTC U Play
o HTC U Ultra
o HTC U11
o HTC U11+
o Huawei Mate 10 Pro
o Huawei Mediapad M5
o LeEco Le 2
o LeEco Le 2 Pro
o LeEco Le Max 2
o LeEco Le Pro 3
o LeEco Le S3
o Lenovo Moto Z
o Lenovo Moto Z Force Droid
o Nokia 8 Sirocco
o Razer Phone
o Smartisan Juanguo Pro

o T-Mobile G1

o Xiomi MIX2 & Mi 6
o Xperia XZ2

o (any others?)

To nospam's point, which of _those_ are NOT a piece of shit phone?
HINT: Would _you_ buy _any_ of _those_ phones? (I wouldn't.)

REFERENCES:
<https://www.androidauthority.com/first-phones-without-headphone-port-run-android-687910/>
<https://www.engadget.com/2008/09/23/confirmed-t-mobile-g1-has-no-3-5mm-headphone-jack/>
<https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2018/02/25/phones-no-3-5mm-jack-headphone/>
<https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/04/google-dropped-the-pixels-headphone-jack-to-lay-the-groundwork-for-a-bezel-free-phone/>

[nospam]

In article <q5jp2h$i20$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, arlen holder

<ar...@arlen.com> wrote:

> o Google Pixel 2
> o Google Pixel 2 XL
> o Google Pixel 3
>

> To nospam's point, which of _those_ are NOT a piece of shit phone?

those, and you forgot the 3xl as well as the forthcoming 4/4xl (or
whatever it ends up being named).

> HINT: Would _you_ buy _any_ of _those_ phones? (I wouldn't.)

absolutely.

night sight is *very* good.

[arlen holder]

On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 09:24:46 -0700, 123456789 wrote:

> Yup. Me and nospam have argued this endlessly in the past. However I
> think he's right on this one. Someday headphone jacks will be as scarce
> as battery doors... ;)

Hi 123456789,

All I care about are facts & adult logic formed of those facts.
o It appears that nospam is comparing iPhones to mostly POS Android phones.

I don't disagree with nospam...
o When he claims iPhone HW compares to mostly POS Android phones.

FACT + LOGIC.
o Adult belief systems are _based_ on facts (not threatened by facts).

To your point it's a "trend" of sorts ... I disagree ... based on fact.

The fact is that we know of about two dozen Android phones over time:
o How many of the existing Android phones lack headphone jack basic hardware functionality?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/ZjnD2kAf-mI>

If there have been a thousand Android phones over time...
o That's 2.4% of all Android phones over time

What's that percentage in terms of _current_ phones?
o Far less than 1%, right?

I ask others to "check the math", where I welcome adult input.
o If only 1% of Android phones lack jacks, then it's _not_ a trend, is it?

[arlen holder]

On Mon, 04 Mar 2019 13:07:33 -0500, nospam wrote:

> and you forgot the 3xl

Hi nospam,

Thank you very much for the addition of the 3XL!

Adult belief system are based on facts (not threatened by facts).
o Hence I welcome your input as to which phones lack basic HW jacks

FACTS:

If there have been a thousand Android phones over time...

o What percentage of those phones lacks this basic HW functionality?

HINT: If there are a thousand, that's 2 percent of all Android models.

Here is the current list of known Android phones lacking the jack:
o Essential PH-1
o Google Pixel 2 & Pixel 2XL
o Google Pixel 3 & Pixel 3XL

o HTC 10 Pro/Lifestyle
o HTC Bolt
o HTC U Play
o HTC U Ultra

o HTC U11 & U11+

o Huawei Mate 10 Pro
o Huawei Mediapad M5

o LeEco Le 2 & Le 2 Pro

o LeEco Le Max 2
o LeEco Le Pro 3
o LeEco Le S3

o Lenovo Moto Z & Moto Z Force Droid

o Nokia 8 Sirocco
o Razer Phone
o Smartisan Juanguo Pro
o T-Mobile G1

o Xiaomi MI A2
o Xiomi MIX2
o Xiomi Mi 6

o Xperia XZ2
o (any others?)

That's about two dozen phones, some of which are a decade old.
o A key question is how many Android phone models are there?

FACT:
Q: What percentage of Android phone models lack basic HW jacks?
(HINT: Is it even close to 2 percent?)

[123456789]

arlen holder wrote:

> Adult belief systems are _based_ on facts (not threatened by facts).

Most normal people (not us) buy a particular model phone because they
like it. And I doubt most could cite many specs if asked.

> To your point it's a "trend" of sorts ... I disagree ... based on
> fact.

Where people are concerned using facts to predict an outcome is often
useless. Were it so I could make millions in the stock market. I seldom
see any wired headphones when out and about anymore. And since most
people aren't using them my GUESS is that they wouldn't miss the
headphone jack much...

I just installed Thunderbird on this Chromebook using the Android app
CrossOver as a Windows emulator. I've been using SeaMonkey up to now but
every so often it loses the server. So lets see if this one works any
better. And transmitting...

[nospam]

In article <q5k0ov$ndg$1...@dont-email.me>, 123456789 <12...@12345.com>
wrote:

> Where people are concerned using facts to predict an outcome is often
> useless. Were it so I could make millions in the stock market. I seldom
> see any wired headphones when out and about anymore. And since most
> people aren't using them my GUESS is that they wouldn't miss the
> headphone jack much...

exactly the point, and of the wired headphones you do see, most of them
are the ones that came in the box and plug directly into the lightning
or usb-c port, no adapters needed.

[123456789]

nospam wrote:

> 123456789 wrote:

>> I seldom see any wired headphones when out and about anymore.

> of the wired headphones you do see, most of them are the ones that
> came in the box and plug directly into the lightning or usb-c port,
> no adapters needed.

I doubt that "MOST" folks seen wearing headphones these days are using
digital phones (yet). As Arlen pointed out there are a slew more Android
phones currently in use that still sport dedicated headphone holes. But
unless you (and I) have x-ray vision and carry a tabulating machine
there's really no way to tell for sure...

[nospam]

In article <q5k8h0$a2n$1...@dont-email.me>, 123456789 <12...@12345.com>

wrote:

> >> I seldom see any wired headphones when out and about anymore.
>
> > of the wired headphones you do see, most of them are the ones that
> > came in the box and plug directly into the lightning or usb-c port,
> > no adapters needed.
>
> I doubt that "MOST" folks seen wearing headphones these days are using
> digital phones (yet).

i should also have mentioned analog headphone jacks, however, given
which phones are popular, a fair amount *are* digital.

the point is that people are using the bundled headphones which plug
directly into the phone, no adapters needed. if the phone has an analog
headphone jack, the bundled headphones are analog. if the phone has a
usb-c port or lightning port, then the bundled headphones are usb-c or
lightning.

but as you noted, most people are using bluetooth.

> As Arlen pointed out there are a slew more Android
> phones currently in use that still sport dedicated headphone holes.

there are more android models, but most of them don't sell in any
appreciable quantity.

the most popular smartphones are mostly apple and samsung, and in
china, huawei.

<https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeanbaptiste/2018/06/13/the-iphone-x-was-t
he-worlds-best-selling-smartphone-in-q1-2018/>

<https://cdn.news.alphastreet.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Worldwide-S
martphone-Market-Share-Q2-2018.png>

> But
> unless you (and I) have x-ray vision and carry a tabulating machine
> there's really no way to tell for sure...

it's actually very easy to tell what people are using. if the cable
plugs into the center, it's almost certainly usb-c or lightning. if
it's on the side, it's analog. if an adapter is being used, that is
also obvious, especially since they're usually a different colour than
the headphone cable.

[arlen holder]

On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 18:21:51 -0000 (UTC), arlen holder wrote:

> FACT:
> Q: What percentage of Android phone models lack basic HW jacks?
> (HINT: Is it even close to 2 percent?)

FACT & LOGIC:

Perhaps as low as 1/10th of 1% of Android devices lack a headphone jack!
o It's not surprising that nospam compares iPhones to POS Android devices!

FACT:

The opensource opensignal app alone, is installed on over 24,000 unique
models of Android according to my quick take in this 2015 article on the
topic:
o There are now more than 24,000 different Android devices
<https://qz.com/472767/there-are-now-more-than-24000-different-android-devices/>

At any given time, there are 18,000 unique Android devices out there,
according to a quick take on this article (also published in 2015):
o You˘ll never guess how many different Android devices are available
<https://bgr.com/2015/04/15/android-sales-2015-smartphones-tablets-smartwatches/>

FACT & LOGIC:
If we assume a _conservative_ 24,000 unique Android types, then...
o Devices missing headphone jacks are less than a tenth of a percent!

LOGIC:
Notice that these are the absolute _worst_ of all Android devices
o It's natural nospam compares the iPhone to POS Android devices

We may change the math, with better figures, but the number of Android
devices is NOT going to go down, so the percentage will remain in the
extremely low arena unless a lot more brain-dead Android devices are found
soon by those with the imaginary belief systems.

--
NOTE: We don't yet have a clear number of unique"smartphone" models; but
it's thousands of different models for sure, which means the percentage is
low by any count that lack the headphone jack basic functionality, where we
can only find two dozen.

[123456789]

nospam wrote:

> it's actually very easy to tell what people are using.

IF the phone is in the open and not in a pocket. When
listening to music mine is usually in my belt case. But then
most people don't see me when I do my chores around the house...

> if the cable plugs into the center, it's almost certainly
> usb-c or lightning.

Another GUESS: USB-C will win out, even at Apple. My latest
Samsung tablet has USB-C. My Lenovo laptop sports a USB-C
and one (legacy?) USB-3.0. This Chromebook has only USB-C
(2). I do have to admit that plugging in the charger and
getting it right on the first try is nice... ;)

[nospam]

In article <q5kedf$dcc$1...@dont-email.me>, 123456789 <12...@12345.com>

wrote:

>
> > it's actually very easy to tell what people are using.
>
> IF the phone is in the open and not in a pocket. When
> listening to music mine is usually in my belt case.

it's usually visible. if not, ignore it.

> But then
> most people don't see me when I do my chores around the house...

most people use a speaker in that situation.

> > if the cable plugs into the center, it's almost certainly
> > usb-c or lightning.
>
> Another GUESS: USB-C will win out, even at Apple.

the latest ipad pros have usb-c, but it's not clear if the next cycle
of iphones will switch, as it's a very different use case than tablets.
there are good reasons to switch and good reasons not to switch.

> My latest
> Samsung tablet has USB-C. My Lenovo laptop sports a USB-C
> and one (legacy?) USB-3.0. This Chromebook has only USB-C
> (2). I do have to admit that plugging in the charger and
> getting it right on the first try is nice... ;)

with wireless charging, there's nothing to plug.

there's also been a lot of work into making wireless charging work
without needing a dedicated pad.

[arlen holder]

On Mon, 04 Mar 2019 15:21:35 -0500, nospam wrote:

> exactly the point, and of the wired headphones you do see, most of them
> are the ones that came in the box and plug directly into the lightning
> or usb-c port, no adapters needed.

*Far less than a single percent of Android devices lacks the headphone jack!*

I expect everyone (but the apologists) to be an adult on this newsgroup.
o The apologists will always make wild claims such as what nospam says.
o But I expect the rest of us to be ADULTS.

Adults use FACTS and we adults use adult LOGIC.
o That's simply because facts form the basis of our belief system

The apologists almost always rely on wholly unsupported anecdotal claims
o Hence, the apologists' belief system is _threatened_ by mere facts

Regarding the all-important _basic_ hardware functionality of
o Analog headphone jacks

While there _are_ at least two dozen Android devices sans headphone jacks,
the astoundingly huge majority (well over 99%) of Android devices
apparently _do_ have headphone jacks (for all any of us can tell).

To back up that fact, on the Android newsgroup, we've found facts showing
over twenty four thousand unique Android devices that ran a given
smartphone app (and that was back in 2015), where the number is undoubtable
greater today, and, in 2015, a European lawsuit against Google enumerated
18,000 *current* Android unique models!
o Note one figure was historical while the other was _current_ devices

If we take only *half* those numbers (which is a huge underestimate), that
gives us a round figure of ten thousand unique Android devices.

If the _best_ that the apologists can come up with is about two dozen
Android devices that lack this basic hardware functionality, that's less
than a single percent (much less than one percent, in fact).

All we ask is for adults on this newsgroup to use FACT + adult logic.
o We do NOT expect the apologists to comprehend fact nor adult logic

Since we're adults, we welcome new facts (even from apologists!)
o However, if no new facts are forthcoming, then the solid conclusion is...

*Far less than a single percent of Android devices lacks this basic functionality!*

[123456789]

arlen holder wrote:

> the astoundingly huge majority (well over 99%) of Android
> devices apparently _do_ have headphone jacks

Your next assignment: What percentage of people actually use
their headphone jack?

Your next challenge: Write a post without the words 'adult'
'child' or 'apologist' in it. Bet you can't... ;)

[nospam]

In article <q5m319$chk$2...@dont-email.me>, 123456789 <12...@12345.com>
wrote:

> arlen holder wrote:
> > the astoundingly huge majority (well over 99%) of Android
> > devices apparently _do_ have headphone jacks
>
> Your next assignment: What percentage of people actually use
> their headphone jack?

that's the number to look at.

> Your next challenge: Write a post without the words 'adult'
> 'child' or 'apologist' in it. Bet you can't... ;)

that is simply not possible.

[sms]

On 3/5/2019 6:07 AM, arlen holder wrote:

<snip>

> *Far less than a single percent of Android devices lacks the headphone jack!*

I like my iPhone 6s Plus very much. I didn't want to have to use an
adapter for the headsets/headphones or use Bluetooth which is why I
chose it over the iPhone 7 or 8.

I'm trying to reduce the number of bits and pieces to keep track of, and
reduce the number of items to separately charge. However I did buy a
wireless charging case for the 6s Plus which is useful, and now it
supports wireless charging and without the glass back on the newer
models. It's a clever case design because it retains a Lightning port as
well so you still can charge with a wire without removing the iPhone
from the case.

I'll probably upgrade the iPhone in the 2021 model refresh after 5G
iPhones have been out for a year. Hopefully a foldable display model
with an active stylus will also be introduced in the 2020 or 2021 refresh.

[arlen holder]

On Tue, 05 Mar 2019 10:07:52 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> Your next assignment: What percentage of people actually use
>> their headphone jack?
>
> that's the number to look at.

The key question for you is simple:

Do you agree with the well cited fact that well over 99% of Android device
models have had and currently have basic analog headphone jack hardware?

Yes or no
o (Pick one)

[arlen holder]

On Tue, 5 Mar 2019 08:02:01 -0700, 123456789 wrote:

> Your next assignment: What percentage of people actually use
> their headphone jack?
>
> Your next challenge: Write a post without the words 'adult'
> 'child' or 'apologist' in it. Bet you can't... ;)

The key question for you is simple:

Do you agree with the well cited fact that well over 99% of Android device
models have had and currently have basic analog headphone jack hardware?

Yes or no

o (pick one)

[nospam]

In article <q5m5ns$tq3$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

>
> I like my iPhone 6s Plus very much. I didn't want to have to use an
> adapter for the headsets/headphones or use Bluetooth which is why I
> chose it over the iPhone 7 or 8.

no adapter is required for the headphones included in the box and
bluetooth is even easier.

>
> I'll probably upgrade the iPhone in the 2021 model refresh after 5G
> iPhones have been out for a year. Hopefully a foldable display model
> with an active stylus will also be introduced in the 2020 or 2021 refresh.

hopefully not. folding displays is a solution in search of a problem,
plus it's unknown how long the displays will last after being folded
and unfolded a lot (probably not long at all).

[arlen holder]

On Tue, 5 Mar 2019 07:48:10 -0800, sms wrote:

> I like my iPhone 6s Plus very much. I didn't want to have to use an
> adapter for the headsets/headphones or use Bluetooth which is why I
> chose it over the iPhone 7 or 8.

Hi sms,

REMOVING BASIC FUNCTIONALITY from iPhones makes good business sense!

All reasonable adults would easily agree on the utility of an analog
headphone jack, just as reasonable adults understand the ("courageous")
decision by Apple to REMOVE this basic functionality from iPhones.

You, me, and all normal adults can easily _comprehend_ how removing this
basic functionality allows Apple to "make money" that they might not
otherwise be able to make.

You and I and all reasonable adults can easily see how this is a complete
and total loss of basic functionality, just as there is no doubt in any
reasonable person's mind that well over 99% of all Android devices have
this basic functionality for a good reason.

Consumers _love_ the analog headphone jack!
o You do. I do.

The fact is that over 99% of Android phones have it for _that_ reason!

Apple _removed_ it for a _different_ reason.
o You know why. I know why. Apple certainly knows why.

The only ones who seem to not know why, are the apologists.

> I'm trying to reduce the number of bits and pieces to keep track of, and
> reduce the number of items to separately charge. However I did buy a
> wireless charging case for the 6s Plus which is useful, and now it
> supports wireless charging and without the glass back on the newer
> models. It's a clever case design because it retains a Lightning port as
> well so you still can charge with a wire without removing the iPhone
> from the case.

This thread is clearly about HARDWARE.

Hence, you bring up a good point of the HARDWARE FUNCTIONALITY of wireless
charging! I have never used wireless charging myself, where I never am
worried to openly state when I'm ignorant - since my belief systems grow
over time based on facts and facts alone.

Hence, I'd like to ask you this basic question:
Q: Do you know if there is ANY wireless charging functionality that is on
one platform but NOT on the other?

That is:
o Is there wireless charging functionality on Android not on Apple?
o Is there wireless charging functionality on Apple not on Android?

> I'll probably upgrade the iPhone in the 2021 model refresh after 5G
> iPhones have been out for a year. Hopefully a foldable display model
> with an active stylus will also be introduced in the 2020 or 2021 refresh.

Hi sms,
We can discuss things differently because you act like an adult should.

Personally, I'm not yet sure the utility of a "foldable display".
What "value" do you find inherent in foldable display technology?

As for 5G technology, I agree with most who say it won't technically matter
for a year or three - but - I'm looking WAY WAY WAY ahead when I compare
what I can see as an upcoming debacle to the "Ford vs Toyota" quality.

Remember how some American car manufacturers advertised the shit out of
"quality" where they happened to spend perhaps too much on advertising
quality and perhaps too little on delivering quality?

It seems that Apple may very well be in the same boat, only not with
respect to quality but with respect to modem performance.

As one adult to another, you'll notice that I look VERY CAREFULLY at the
arguments nospam makes, because he's clever enough to try to deflect the
real argument with his false premises.

For example, notice nospam "claims" the loss of basic headphone
functionality is "no big deal", and yet, you love it, I love it, and, more
to the point, well over 99% of all Android devices have this basic
functionality - and even more to the point - Apple REMOVED this basic
functionality for a very good (perhaps selfish) business reason.

In general, if nospam seems unreasonable about something, it's because
nospam actually knows the _true_ reason for the loss of the functionality.

Likewise along those lines, nospam brazenly "claims" Apple is basically
nonchalant with respect to 5G technology (sans a _single_ supporting
cite!); and yet, EVERYTHING in the factual record indicates not only that
Apple is _desperate_ for the technology, but that Apple is _woefully_
behind and perhaps may never catch up.

The list goes on with nospam (fm radios, batteries, expansion slots, etc.).

If nospam is against something that is clearly very good for the consumer,
then you can rest assured that Apple is making a (perhaps selfish) business
play to REMOVE that basic functionality from the users' iPhone.

REMOVING BASIC FUNCTIONALITY from iPhones makes good business sense!

[arlen holder]

On Tue, 05 Mar 2019 11:25:19 -0500, nospam wrote:

> no adapter is required for the headphones included in the box and
> bluetooth is even easier.

*Is there ANY hardware functionality on iPhones not ALREADY on Android?*

This thread is desperately trying to find _something_ (ANYTHING!)
that is on iPhones that is not ALREADY on almost all Android phones,
nospam.

All you keep talking about, nospam, is the HW we already know that is on
Android, where iPhones are almost hopelessly behind in functional hardware.
o iPhones completely lack expansion slot HW functionality
o iPhones completely lack removable battery HW functionality
o iPhones completely lack FM radio HW functionality
o iPhones completely lack 5G modem HW functionality
etc.

As a simple example, my $130 phone has all that HW except the 5G modem.
o In addition, my $130 phone has a "courageous" headphone jack!

FACTS:
It's _trivial_ to find hardware on Android completely missing from iPhones.

What we need your expertise, nospam, is in finding something (ANYTHING!)
that is on iPhones that is NOT already on Android phones!

Direct question for you, nospam:
o Is there ANY HW FUNCTIONALITY on iPhones that isn't ALREADY on Android
phones?

You get the same test all adults must pass when they make statements:
o Name just one.

*Is there ANY hardware functionality on iPhones not ALREADY on Android?*
o Name just one

[123456789]

arlen holder wrote:

> Do you agree with the well cited fact that well over 99% of Android device
> models have had and currently have basic analog headphone jack hardware?

I agree that the percentage of Android phones with a
headphone jack is currently high just like the percentage of
Android phones with a battery door was once high. As needs
change so do the devices (if the manufacturers are savvy)...

[arlen holder]

On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 01:53:21 -0000 (UTC), arlen holder wrote:

> *Q: Is there any functional hardware on iPhones not ALREADY on Android?*

FACT + LOGIC:

This thread comes to an amazing fact-based adult logical conclusion.

I was assuming there was something (anything) useful on iPhones that isn't
already on Android - but nobody seems to be able to "name just one" yet.

Worse, there's IMPORTANT hardware on Android NOT on any iPhones!
o Expansion slots
o Removable batteries
o FM Radios & 5G modems
etc.

Even worse given the astronomical prices of iPhones lately, is that they're
far (far, far), far behind on networking speeds, which is a critical
performance component of a mobile device.
o Apple will most likely be unable to deliver 5G modems even for 2020 iPhones
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/R7bFy5pnOxQ>

Even today, Apple performance is 67% slower on the Intel modems, and that's
just today ... where the lack of performance on iPhones will almost
certainly fall get far (far), far farther behind in the next two years.

BTW, if Apple did not sell iPhones at astronomical prices, then it wouldn't
matter that, even today, Apple iPhones have mediocre performance, and that
Apple iPhones will _continue_ to fall far behind in performance for the
conceivable future.

But since Apple "prices" iPhones at astronomical levels, it appears that
their customer will balk at paying astronomical prices for mediocre
performance.
o Apple coming through with promised price cuts & price-hiding gimmicks
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/PzDovcisDvI>

Since I'm beholden to fact, and to adult logic based on fact...
o If you feel any of these statements incorrect...
o Simply state cites that back up your point of view (as I always do).

Note to Apologists: *No _imaginary_ facts - only actual facts please.*

[arlen holder]

The Samsung Galaxy S10 has bilateral charging.
o Apple apparently doesn't have even that hardware feature yet

Apple may have it in the future, of course, but they're apparently well behind:
o So that's yet one more hardware functionality on Android not on iPhones.

In addition, Android phones come, _standard_, in the box, with 18W chargers
o Even in 2019, the iPhones will _all_ come with the primitive 5W brick!

So that's (yet) another Fact!

FACT:
o Apple is expected to launch 3 new iPhones this year — here's everything we know so far
<https://www.businessinsider.com/new-iphones-from-apple-2019-rumors-features-specs-2019-3>

FACT:
Overall, looking at facts, it's kind of shocking these two basic facts...
o There is plenty hardware on Android that is NOT on iPhones, and yet,
o *There is _nothing_ on iPhones that isn't ALREADY standard on Android!*

LOGIC:
The iPhones is mediocre hardware at astronomical pricing.

To all those Apologists with purely imaginary belief systems...
o All you need to do to prove those facts wrongs is ...

*NAME JUST ONE*
o And yet, they can't.

[sms]

On 2/28/2019 5:53 PM, arlen holder wrote:
> Q: *Is there any functional hardware on iPhones not ALREADY on Android?*

Yes, when you consider the wide variety of Android models. Higher-end
Android phones with Qualcomm 845 and 855 processors have a Secure
Processing Unit (SPU), the equivalent of Secure Enclave on the iPhone.
But lower end Android phones don't have this. They still have TrustZone,
but that's not as secure.

Every recent iPhone includes Secure Enclave within the main processor.
The iPhone is popular in commercial, industrial, and health care
companies because of the high security in all the models.

The Google Pixel 3 takes things one step further with the separate Titan
M chip
<https://www.wired.com/story/google-titan-m-security-chip-pixel-3/>
which is Google's attempt to have an Android environment that is as
secure, or even more secure, than iPhone.

[arlen holder]

On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:42:51 -0700, sms wrote:

> Yes, when you consider the wide variety of Android models. Higher-end
> Android phones with Qualcomm 845 and 855 processors have a Secure
> Processing Unit (SPU), the equivalent of Secure Enclave on the iPhone.

Hi Steve,

I first caveat this discussion by saying I'm not an encryption expert
o Hence I will ask you to stick to the basics in an on topic manner.

The question is what HARDWARE is on one platform & not the other.
o For example, headphone jacks are on both platforms
o But expansion slots are only on one platform

Sticking to the topic of "hardware functionality", we can look deeper into
o Hardware-accelerated encryption functionality on Android,
o Versus hardware-accelerated encryption functionality on iPhones

I think it's a welcome discussion point, where I will likely need to
doublecheck any statement others make, simply because I make no claims
about being even close to anything but encryption ignorant.

I doubt I'm the only one here who isn't an expert on encryption
o Where we should all welcome an adult discussion on the matter

To that end, you bring up a good "discussion point", where, since you're
not an apologists, I assume you won't play silly games like the apologists
do, which revolve around idiotic advertisesd name brands & meaningless
marketing trademarks, instead of actual functionality. OK?

Let's talk realistic facts & adult logic about "encryption" though...
o *Are you really talking about "full disk encryption"?*

More to the point, we need to clarify what hardware functionality you mean:
o *Are you really talking about "hardware accelerated" FDE?*

More, perhaps, to your point...
o FDE that puts the device on lockdown after wrong guesses, right?

If my guess of what you're trying to say is on iPhones & not Android,
then are you saying that this HA-FDE-WEL does NOT exist on Android?
o Hardware-accelerated full disk encryption with eventual lockdown?

Is that what you're saying is on iPhones but not on any Android phones?
o If so (or if not) would you kindly clarify in your response?

Since I'm no expert on hardware accelerated full disk encryption with
eventual lockdown, let's first completely ignore huge weaknesses of the
Apple proprietary encryption that made the news just this week:
o Hackers using "dev fused" iPhones to disassemble Secure Enclave Processor
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/bgqU2gJYA7k>
Where $1,800 enables a complete inside look at the proprietary algorithms.

Repeating that I've never claimed to be an encryption expert, I just would
like to ask you to _clarify_ what hardware functionality you're saying is
on iPhones that has never been on any Android phone ever.

Assuming that iPhones have this hardware functionality...
o Hardware-accelerated full disk encryption with wrong-guess lockdown...

Are you saying that there have been zero Android phones with...
o Hardware-accelerated full disk encryption with wrong-guess lockdown?

[JF Mezei]

On 2019-03-12 02:04, arlen holder wrote:

>> Yes, when you consider the wide variety of Android models. Higher-end
>> Android phones with Qualcomm 845 and 855 processors have a Secure
>> Processing Unit (SPU), the equivalent of Secure Enclave on the iPhone.

> The question is what HARDWARE is on one platform & not the other.
> o For example, headphone jacks are on both platforms
> o But expansion slots are only on one platform

The Apple implementation of the secure enclave is very significant
hardware, and its integration with IOS makes it far more sighificant
than on Android.

It isn't just your fingerprint or facial data that it stores, but also a
variety of keys for disk encription and certificates to verify the boot
loaded when you powwer up, and validity of your lock/unlock status.

For instance, it knows whether your password is valid, and if so, will
agree to unlock phone with fingerprint or faceID. Similarly, if you
change yoru AppleID, this is logged by secure enclave which sets an
"invalid" flag for a numebr of things. For instance, you ApplePay
information becomes invalid. (consider when you sell a phone to a
friend, as soona s you change the appleID, your credit cards are zapped
from phone).

More importantly, secure enclave is the holder of encryption keys for
your disk. They are generated from a combination of a unique key only it
knows (Apple doesn't) and your password. To access any of your data, you
need this.

If you take the storage chip and move it to another iPhone (or some
debugging device), you can't decrypt any of it because you are missing
the unique ID (even if you know the password)

Apple did a very good job at securing the data on a phone.

So while other phone may have marketing that claims "secure enclave"
like chip, it doesn't come close to the quality of implementation made
by Apple. And this is one area where Apple was well ahead of others
(Apple is generally behind in implementing stuff).


Dismissing Secure Enclave is wrong. It is a very significant hardware
feature.

[sms]

On 3/11/2019 11:04 PM, arlen holder wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:42:51 -0700, sms wrote:
>
>> Yes, when you consider the wide variety of Android models. Higher-end
>> Android phones with Qualcomm 845 and 855 processors have a Secure
>> Processing Unit (SPU), the equivalent of Secure Enclave on the iPhone.
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> I first caveat this discussion by saying I'm not an encryption expert
> o Hence I will ask you to stick to the basics in an on topic manner.
>
> The question is what HARDWARE is on one platform & not the other.
> o For example, headphone jacks are on both platforms
> o But expansion slots are only on one platform

Secure Enclave is a hardware feature. Just as the SPU in the higher-end
Qualcomm chips is a hardware feature/

Some, but not all, Android phones offer hardware features not available
on the iPhone at this time (active stylus, Micro SD card slots,
headphone jack, FM radio). Some features are rarely used (FM radio)
while some are heavily used. All can be added back, to some degree, with
the use of after-market accessories.

[arlen holder]

On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 06:03:23 -0400, JF Mezei wrote:

> The Apple implementation of the secure enclave is very significant
> hardware, and its integration with IOS makes it far more sighificant
> than on Android.

Hi JF Mezei,
Since you're not an apologists, we can have an adult discussion.

I first repeat that I'm almost completely ignorant of both the moronic
advertising (which, make no mistake, is _designed_ to build an imaginary
belief system in susceptible minds), and the actual hardware involved.

Mostly, I don't see (yet) any useful _functional_ difference between...
a. Android full disk encryption, and,
b. iPhone full disk encryption.

Hence, let's agree, at the onset, to two things that adults will agree on:
o This is a public discussion for the benefit of everyone, and,
o Let's stick to the on-topic hardware facts of actual value to users.

Bear in mind that you may "think" you told me something...
o But I have to separate what is real from what is bullshit

And so do you with what I say in return.

With that in mind, let's "accept" fully your assertion (and that of
Steve's), that the Apple hardware-accelerated full disk encryption with
error lockdown is "superior" to whatever hardware is on any Android phone
that may be similar in purpose.

I'll accept that premise...
o Where all any adult would ask are the facts which support that premise.

The adult question then simply becomes something like this:
o Do iPhones have HA-FDE-WEL that is on no other Android phone?

> It isn't just your fingerprint or facial data that it stores, but also a
> variety of keys for disk encription and certificates to verify the boot
> loaded when you powwer up, and validity of your lock/unlock status.

Hmmmm.... that's too detailed for me since I'm not sure what we're
comparing yet.

Staying on topic for what hardware is truly useful, are you saying...
o These are useful hardware things that are on iPhones but not Android?

I don't claim to be knowledgeable in encryption so you need to simplify
your message for me. Without being handed an Apple-Marketing-Infused white
paper, I would rather see a reliable reference that backs up what you said.

Does _this_ reference back up what you just said?
o Android Encryption Demystified
<https://blog.elcomsoft.com/2017/05/android-encryption-demystified/>

Where it says that iPhone encryption offers...
o Full-disk block-level encryption
o Unique encryption keys for each data block
o An extra encryption layer for the Keychain (e.g., credit cards)
o The decryption key is not stored anywhere in the device
o The key is calculated dynamically partly based on information in the SE

If that's what you said, that reference then says, and I quote:
"Android does not offer anything that can approach iOS in terms
of encryption. Instead, Android employs a straightforward
block-level encryption of the data partition."

Is _that_ what you (& perhaps Steve) are trying to tell us?

> For instance, it knows whether your password is valid, and if so, will
> agree to unlock phone with fingerprint or faceID.

Please don't bring in "Face ID" into this adult equation, unless you want
to get the basic spiel from me that Face-ID is purely an idiotic marketing
gimmick that Apple, no slouch in marketing games, knows gullible people eat
up like sugary ice cream.

Even fingerprints are, at this stage, almost certainly more of that
fantastically influential but purely marketing gimmickry that gullible
people eat up like sugary deserts that have no nutritional value in terms
of actual security.

Let's stick with just the "passphrase" please if we're going to talk
seriously, adult to adult, about security, particularly security that is
supposed to keep LE out of your phone (we may presume).

> Similarly, if you
> change yoru AppleID, this is logged by secure enclave which sets an
> "invalid" flag for a numebr of things. For instance, you ApplePay
> information becomes invalid. (consider when you sell a phone to a
> friend, as soona s you change the appleID, your credit cards are zapped
> from phone).

Huh?
o Is this marketing bullshit or is this useful hardware functionality?

On Android, you don't even _need_ an "Android ID", so, the mere fact you
_must_ have an Apple ID is _already_ a security/privacy flaw, is it not?

Having to "protect" something like an "Apple ID" (that should _never_ have
been needed in the first place!) isn't going to be an easy sell.

Particularly when, on Android, all you need to do is "factory wipe" the
phone if you want to sell it to someone, isn't that correct?

On Android, if you _want_ a "Google ID", you're welcome to change it any
time you want to change it (I change mine constantly, for example, almost
monthly in fact). I don't even bother to write down the arbitrary login
name and arbitrary password since I only need it once and never need it
again.

Having said that, I understand that other people actually store "payment"
details on their mobile device, where, you're going to have to show that
"payment details" are more secure on one platform than the other if that's
what you're trying to intimate above.

> More importantly, secure enclave is the holder of encryption keys for
> your disk. They are generated from a combination of a unique key only it
> knows (Apple doesn't) and your password. To access any of your data, you
> need this.

To me, this sounds suspiciously like pseudo-meaningful marketing blurbs.

What meaningful hardware functionality advantage ot the user is all that?
o And, are you saying Android does not have that meaningful functionality?

> If you take the storage chip and move it to another iPhone (or some
> debugging device), you can't decrypt any of it because you are missing

> the unique ID (even if you know the password).

Bearing in mind the so-called "secure enclave" has been breached,
what meaningful hardware functionality are you trying to say is on one
phone and not on the other?

I must say what I say to EVERYONE who intimates that the "adversary" will
only use the hardest toughest most time consuming brute force methods to
gain access to your data ... which is simply that security is (and was)
never about the strongest link.

EVERY fortress that man has devised, has a weakness.
o For Troy, it was their own hubris
o For Masada & Tyre, it was that there was nowhere to go
o For Vecingetorix, it was the need to feed civilians
etc.

If ANYONE thinks that ONLY the strongest link matters, they're mistaken.
o Hence I must ask WHAT are you "protecting" & WHO is your adversary?

And then I have to ask how is it any DIFFERENT in terms of FUNCTIONALTY
o How does an iPhone protect that data any better than does Android?

> Apple did a very good job at securing the data on a phone.

Nobody is going to use the hardest method to get to your data.
o Nobody.

*It's just not what adversaries do.*

Only in marketing brochures is the hardest way to do something the method
they talk about the most, to the exclusion of saying that the secure
enclave is well known to be wide open to anyone with a mere $1,800 to
spend.

The question we are asking here is SIMPLE:
o What HARDWARE FUNCTIONALITY is on one phone, not on the other

It's an important question, because the ANSWER is illuminating.
o In the answer is actual cold hard logical fact.

When the user is _using_ the phone, in daily use, how is one platform any
different in terms of hardware security than the other platform?

I suspect that there is absolutely no difference, but if you feel there is
a hardware difference, then let's discuss it - but please - let's keep the
(admittedly great-sounding) marketing bullshit out of the equation.

What's the FUNCTIONAL difference to the user?

> So while other phone may have marketing that claims "secure enclave"
> like chip, it doesn't come close to the quality of implementation made
> by Apple. And this is one area where Apple was well ahead of others
> (Apple is generally behind in implementing stuff).

I'm an adult.
o That means I can separate, most of the time, bullshit, from fact.

For example, Apple's advertising of "privacy" is sheer bullshit.
o This is EASILY proved, where we already did so, last month.

Apple talks up a storm on privacy, but it's all easily shown to be BS.
o So please do NOT bullshit us here since we're all sentient adults

If Apple has hardware FUNCTIONALITY that Android doesn't have
o Then let's talk about that hardware functionality in terms of facts

What does that "secure enclave" have that Android doesn't have?
o What useful FUNCTIONALITY does it provide that Android can't provide?

> Dismissing Secure Enclave is wrong. It is a very significant hardware
> feature.

I am an adult whose belief system is not only based on facts...
o But my belief system is _strengthened_ by facts.

I don't have an imaginary belief system built only on Marketing bullshit
o If this "Secure Enclave" concept is meaningful, then tell me the meaning

Tell me, in actual non-marketing-bullshit terms:
o Who is the adversary?
o What data is that adversary trying to get off my phone?

Once you tell me that, then we can begin to discuss the _weak_ link.
o Remember, NOBODY is going to go frontal on your data.

Only in slick marketing brochures does the Maginot Line actually work.
o The Germans didn't bother taking the HARDEST way - they took it easy

Same thing with the Republican Guard during the Kuwait Gulf War
o The slick marketing brochures wanted them to think we're going frontal
o Meanwhile, we pulled the "Hail Mary" around their flank

HINT: There's a reason armies protect their "flanks" at all times!

Nobody is going to go frontal on any security mechanism.
o They're just not going to bother.

Only in the slick marketing brochures do adversaries go frontal.
o So the iPhone must have its flanks covered in addition to the point.

In summary, I realize you may think I'm disagreeing with you, but I'm
actually NOT disagreeing with you; I'm simply asking for a non-bullshit
answer of what useful hardware FUNCTIONALITY is on one platform that is not
on the other.

*I get it that Android does FDE _differently_ than does Apple.*

But what does that mean in terms of useful hardware functionality?
o What useful FDE functionality is on one that isn't already on the other?

--
Note: I understand that you may think you "told me" already, and I agree
you "may have" told me already, but you certainly infused marketing
bullshit in there so we need to remove the marketing and concentrate on the
facts (e.g., keep face-id & fingerprint marketing gimmickry out of this
equation if we're going to be serious).

[arlen holder]

On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 06:55:15 -0700, sms wrote:

> Secure Enclave is a hardware feature. Just as the SPU in the higher-end
> Qualcomm chips is a hardware feature/

Hi Steve,
Let's agree that this "thing" called "Secure Enclave" is hardware.
o The question is then what FUNCTIONALITY does this thing offer.

Let's keep it high level because it's just too hard to 'educate' me.
o I just want to know what FUNCTIONALITY it offers.

After that, I need to see if Android has that same functionality,
o Or not.

Hence the relevant question is:
Q: What FUNCTIONANLITY does this SE provide that isn't already on Android?

I don't want you to go deeply like this ancient blog seems to have done:
o Hardware-accelerated disk encryption in Android 5.1
<https://nelenkov.blogspot.com/2015/05/hardware-accelerated-disk-encryption-in.html>

Just tell me:
o Who is the adversary & what "data" do they want & how will they get it?

Once we figure _that_ out, we can begin to discuss:
o Why doesn't Android have that _same_ functionality?

Please bear in mind I'm trying to _separate_ the actual functionality...
o From the marketing bullshit

HINT: No serious adversary attacks frontally. They just don't.
For example, when Comey went frontal, it was for a political game.

No adversary _ever_ goes frontal if they can easily attack your flanks.
o Security is all about the Belgian Ardennes (not the French Maginot Line).

What I'm trying to ask you and others to summarize for me are facts:
1. What "data" are we protecting on the mobile device?
2. Who is our "adversary" & what methods are available to him?

For example, you're well aware I can buy, for a mere $1,800, full and
complete access to the Apple secure enclave, right?

> Some, but not all, Android phones offer hardware features not available
> on the iPhone at this time (active stylus, Micro SD card slots,
> headphone jack, FM radio).

This thread is clearly not about hardware that both platforms have.
o That's why I never put headphone jacks in the hardware list for example

My hypothesis is that there is NOTHING by way of useful functional hardware
on iPhones that is not already on Android.

Things like this are useful hardware functionalities...
o Expansion slots

All I'm asking is for someone to provide a single hardware functionality on
iPhones that is not on any Android phones.

If the so-called "Secure Enclave" is one such hardware functionality, then
all you have to do, as an adult, is tell me what it does that is useful
that we can't get on any Android phone.

As far as I see it (at this moment, but bearing in mind I'm not claiming to
be an encryption expert)...
o Android has encryption
o Apple has different encryption

If they both accomplish the same useful functionality...
o Then they don't belong on this list

If one accomplishes useful functionality that the other doesn't have
o Then it belongs on the list

> Some features are rarely used (FM radio)
> while some are heavily used. All can be added back, to some degree, with
> the use of after-market accessories.

I agree with you that "accessories" can 'add back' functionality.
o That's why the headphone jack isn't included in this list

Things that _belong_ in this list are things like:
o Expansion slots

They can't easily be added back with accessories.

If the "Secure Enclave" provides useful functionality that isn't on
Android, then I'm willing to accept that, and, in fact, I would WELCOME
that fact (if it provides useful functionality).

This is the $64 question...
Q: What does Apple's SE provide by way of useful functionality that is NOT
already on Android?

The answer isn't "encryption" because Android has encryption.
<https://www.androidauthority.com/how-to-encrypt-android-device-326700/>

The answer isn't "full disk encryption", because Android has that too.
<https://source.android.com/security/encryption/full-disk>

What USEFUL FUNCTIONALITY does SE provide that Android doesn't have?
o Please bear in mind that protecting in only 1 direction is worthless.

[arlen holder]

On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 01:53:21 -0000 (UTC), arlen holder wrote:

> *Q: Is there any functional hardware on iPhones not ALREADY on Android?*

UPDATE:
Good news for Apple fans!

FACT:
o Intel Exits 5G Phone Modem Business
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/CAHa_6HHazo>

o Apple and Qualcomm Drop All Litigation
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/dpBGLRnNPpw>

LOGIC:
In a year or two, depending on how fast Apple can move,
o *Apple will finally have modems as fast as those on Android phones today*