Comparing prices for grocery shopping using Android free app

[Ger Robertson]

What is the best way to get my pricing/unit information from paper to an
Excel/Calc spreadsheet and then into Android such that it will be useful
at the grocery store?

For the fifty or so items I regularly buy, I wrote down, onto separate
pieces of paper, a list of current grocery prices at a few local stores
in the form of the following for each store (these are current Costco
prices):
- Watermelon $5 each
- Tomato Roma $2/#
- OJ not from concentrate $0.049/oz
- Olive Oil Extra Virgin $6.50/l
- Toilet Paper Kirkland $0.01/sqft
- Vinegar Heinz $2.49/gal
etc.

The plan is to enter the price/unit lists into separate spreadsheets on a
laptop and then somehow get them into Android for interactive use while
shopping at the various stores.

The desired use model is the following:
a. Canvass grocery stores & write down the 30 or so items I buy
b. Input that list into a spreadsheet on Windows or Linux
c. Input that spreadsheet into the Android cellphone
d. Use the information on Android while shopping the various stores
e. Update the information on Android at the various stores
f. All without cellular (often unavailable inside Faraday cages)

I tried a few free "grocery" apps, none of which do the basic task:
- Our Groceries (doesn't do price at all, nor units)
- Shopping List (doesn't do price at all, nor units)
- Out of Milk (doesn't do price at all, nor units)
- OI Shopping List (does price & unit but only does 1 list)
- Grocery IQ (does price but is woefully deficient in units)
- Rainbow List (doesn't do price per unit)

And, in the category of pure lists:
- Inkpad (does lists, but it's just pure text)
- SMemo (does lists, but it's just pure text)

QUESTION:
What is the best way to get my pricing/unit information from paper to an
Excel/Calc spreadsheet and then into Android such that it will be useful
at the grocery store?

[Mike Barnes]

Ger Robertson wrote:
> What is the best way to get my pricing/unit information from paper to an
> Excel/Calc spreadsheet and then into Android such that it will be useful
> at the grocery store?

I don't know about "best" but I'd enter my data into Excel and save it
into my Dropbox as HTML, then read it on the phone using Chrome. Plenty
of other options available.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

[Chris Uppal]

Ger Robertson wrote:
> What is the best way to get my pricing/unit information from paper to an
> Excel/Calc spreadsheet and then into Android such that it will be useful
> at the grocery store?

Why not just load the data into a spreadsheet program on the Android device,
and use it directly as you shop ? If there's some reason that doesn't work for
you, then that would give more insight into what it is that you actually /do/
want to do (which is somewhat dark to me).

(I'm assuming that there /are/ still standalone spreadsheet programs these
days -- I don't really know since I regard "spreadsheet" and "lifestyle
problem" as near synonyms ;-)

-- chris

[jbm]

Only problem is keeping it up to date.

Using my local Tesco, 2 months ago I bought 3 packs of bacon for £10, 16
rashers in each pack. Last week I bought the same, but this time there
were 14 rashers in each pack. That's a price hike of over 14% in about 7
weeks. Compare that to the latest government figure of 1.5% inflation!

That is going to be a difficult exercise now that supermarkets are down
sizing the packs to hide the price increases.

jim

[Keith Nuttle]

On 9/19/2014 3:43 PM, Ger Robertson wrote:
> What is the best way to get my pricing/unit information from paper to an
> Excel/Calc spreadsheet

Assuming that the information on paper is handwritten, I am afraid the
only way this is going to happen is if you key it in manually.

If it is typewritten you may be able to get it into the spreadsheet
using OCR. such as Irfanview and the addon OCR_KADMOS.(Both are free)

http://www.irfanview.net/
http://www.irfanview.info/plugins/kadmos/

[Roger Mills]

On 19/09/2014 20:43, Ger Robertson wrote:
> What is the best way to get my pricing/unit information from paper to an
> Excel/Calc spreadsheet and then into Android such that it will be useful
> at the grocery store?
>
> For the fifty or so items I regularly buy, I wrote down, onto separate
> pieces of paper, a list of current grocery prices at a few local stores
> in the form of the following for each store (these are current Costco
> prices):
> - Watermelon $5 each
> - Tomato Roma $2/#
> - OJ not from concentrate $0.049/oz
> - Olive Oil Extra Virgin $6.50/l
> - Toilet Paper Kirkland $0.01/sqft
> - Vinegar Heinz $2.49/gal
> etc.
>
> The plan is to enter the price/unit lists into separate spreadsheets on a
> laptop and then somehow get them into Android for interactive use while
> shopping at the various stores.
>
> The desired use model is the following:

> a. Canvass grocery stores& write down the 30 or so items I buy

> b. Input that list into a spreadsheet on Windows or Linux
> c. Input that spreadsheet into the Android cellphone
> d. Use the information on Android while shopping the various stores
> e. Update the information on Android at the various stores
> f. All without cellular (often unavailable inside Faraday cages)
>
> I tried a few free "grocery" apps, none of which do the basic task:
> - Our Groceries (doesn't do price at all, nor units)
> - Shopping List (doesn't do price at all, nor units)
> - Out of Milk (doesn't do price at all, nor units)

> - OI Shopping List (does price& unit but only does 1 list)

> - Grocery IQ (does price but is woefully deficient in units)
> - Rainbow List (doesn't do price per unit)
>
> And, in the category of pure lists:
> - Inkpad (does lists, but it's just pure text)
> - SMemo (does lists, but it's just pure text)
>
> QUESTION:
> What is the best way to get my pricing/unit information from paper to an
> Excel/Calc spreadsheet and then into Android such that it will be useful
> at the grocery store?
>

I'm not sure whereabouts in the world you are - Edinburgh in your
address suggests UK but pricing in $ doesn't!

I'm in the UK and use an Android app called My Supermarket, which does
everything you want without messing about with PCs and spreadsheets.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mysupermarket.mysuperlist

It enables you to define one or more shopping lists of frequently bought
items and, as you click on each item, it display the price in several
different supermarkets. There are several way of compiling your list -
including scanning the barcodes of items which you have to hand.

The supermarkets listed are UK-oriented, but I can't believe that there
aren't equivalents in other countries.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

[Chris Ahlstrom]

Ger Robertson wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> What is the best way to get my pricing/unit information from paper to an
> Excel/Calc spreadsheet and then into Android such that it will be useful
> at the grocery store?

Why not bypass it and enter it into "Android" directly?

--
Grandpa Charnock's Law:
You never really learn to swear until you learn to drive.

[I thought it was when your kids learned to drive. Ed.]

[Chris Uppal]

jbm wrote:

> Using my local Tesco, 2 months ago I bought 3 packs of bacon for �10, 16
> rashers in each pack. Last week I bought the same, but this time there
> were 14 rashers in each pack.

Are you in a position to compare the weights of the packs ?

(Not taking a position in either direction -- for instance it is well
established that meat gets "padded" with water, OTOH pigs don't grow to
standardised sizes).

-- chris

[Ger Robertson]

Chris Uppal wrote, on Fri, 19 Sep 2014 21:56:07 +0100:

> Why not just load the data into a spreadsheet program on the Android
> device,
> and use it directly as you shop ?

Hello Chris,
The funny thing is that I started this endeavor by "assuming" the grocery
store apps did the "basics". They don't.

You'd think prices, in a grocery app, would be important, but, only in "OI
Shopping List" and "Grocery IQ" was there even a separate field for
price. While "OI Shopping List" allowed you to enter price per unit, it
only allowed a single list, which is too restrictive. And, don't even get
me started on the lack of sensible units in "Grocery IQ", where the
*only* choices are pounds or kilograms.

So, what anyone would need for this task is:
a) Multiple lists (one per store)
b) Input of price/unit (multiple units must be available)
c) Some sort of sensible sorting order

Certainly spreadsheets would fulfill this requirement, but, I don't have
a single spreadsheet on my S3, as I had thought the grocery apps would do
the basics.

[Ger Robertson]

Mike Barnes wrote, on Fri, 19 Sep 2014 21:59:17 +0100:

> I don't know about "best" but I'd enter my data into Excel and save it
> into my Dropbox as HTML, then read it on the phone using Chrome. Plenty
> of other options available.

I don't save anything to the net that I don't have to, especially
something containing information that I input, but I do have Google
Sheets and WPS Office installed, either one of which should perform a
simple grocery task.

But, I was hoping there was a grocery app that did the basics, which
shouldn't be all that strange:

a) Multiple lists (one per store)

b) Handle price per unit (you'd think this was a basic need)

Why are the grocery apps woefully deficient in those two basic needs?

[Ger Robertson]

jbm wrote, on Fri, 19 Sep 2014 22:42:53 +0100:

> That is going to be a difficult exercise now that supermarkets are down
> sizing the packs to hide the price increases.

I have noticed that even Costco, which doesn't normally "downsize", is
hiding the price per unit by, for example, pricing tomato sauce as price
per jar instead of price per ounce (where they have various sized jars to
make comparison even harder).

Same with the tuna fish, which is price per can, instead of price per
ounce, where, again, they have variously sized cans.

I *always* pull down the sticker and write on it, either the price per
ounce from my calculator, or, a question "what is the price per ounce" on
the sticker.

They invariably replace the stickers.

I do not have the skills to write a grocery app, but it would do these
basic tasks and one non-basic task:

BASIC TASK OF A GROCERY APP:
1. Input item name & price per unit (e.g., price per ounce)
2. Allow multiple lists

NON-BASIC TASK OF A GROCERY APP:
3. Sort by food type (bread, dairy, meat, etc.)

EXPERT TASK OF A GROCERY APP:
4. Scan the price off the store price sticker
5. For any item, find the best price in the stored lists

[Ger Robertson]

Chris Uppal wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 03:01:41 +0100:

> Are you in a position to compare the weights of the packs ?

In the olden days, prices were marked on each package, where we had to
bring a calculator along to devolve the price into the price per standard
unit.

For example, at Costco this week, a 56 ounce box of 72 Bagel Bites were
simply listed as $10. Were I to calculate a "standard price", it would
either be $10/72=14 cents per bagel bite, or (which I prefer), $10/56=18
cents per ounce (since, as you noted, they can mess with the size of the
bagel bite).

In the USA, most grocery stores no longer mark the individual items, as
they mark the shelf, and that placard (usually) has the price per
standard unit (e.g., price per ounce).

But, even if there is no price per standard unit marked, it's trivial to
calculate, so, I'm not sure what you're getting at.

With variable items, such as meat, for example, it would be price per
pound, even though various meats have various amounts of fat and bone.

It would be nice if a grocery app would simply do that calculation for
you, e.g.,
1. You input "New York Strip", $14, 2pound 3ounce
2. The app calculates the price per pound.

[Big_Al]

What's wrong with text?
I use Fast Notepad that I list all my email setup data, and medications
etc. Simple, sorts by title, and anything can go in. You could make
lists by type, beverages and just list milk, store, price. You don't
have to import etc, just copy the file to it's data folder. I write in
Windows notepad++ and then email it to my tablet, then copy to the
folder, done!

You know, KISS, works most of the time. You can export excel to text.

[Ger Robertson]

Keith Nuttle wrote, on Fri, 19 Sep 2014 17:43:54 -0400:

> Assuming that the information on paper is handwritten, I am afraid the
> only way this is going to happen is if you key it in manually.

I type well on a full-sized keyboard, so, entering in the values on a
computer isn't at all difficult for me.

What would be nice though, is if a grocery app could scan the shelf
label, which would have the price per item and the price per standard
unit already marked.

I'm actually appalled at how non-functional the grocery apps are, given
that the desired task is about as basic and common as they get.

[Ger Robertson]

Roger Mills wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 00:12:20 +0100:

> I'm not sure whereabouts in the world you are - Edinburgh in your
> address suggests UK but pricing in $ doesn't!

I'm in the USA, and I don't even know what garbage I had entered into the
email address. I can change that to a USA-looking email address if that
matters, but I had not thought anyone actually expects a real email
address in that required bogus field.

> I'm in the UK and use an Android app called My Supermarket, which does
> everything you want without messing about with PCs and spreadsheets.

Funny. I see it easily on the PC from your link, but I don't see it on my
Android phone when I go to Google Play.

From the PC, this is what I see:
mySupermarket – Shopping List
mySupermarket - August 26, 2014

But, from Android, all I see when I search for "MySupermarket" or when I
search for "My Supermarket", all I see is:
supermarket price comparison by PreisEnte (beta)
Basha's Supermarket by MyWebGrocer, Inc.
POC! Supermarket Offers by Radiana
My Nearest SuperMarket by aplyss
and a few coupon apps

Does Android have the concept of only making apps available regionally?

[Mayayana]

| But, I was hoping there was a grocery app that did the basics, which
| shouldn't be all that strange:
| a) Multiple lists (one per store)
| b) Handle price per unit (you'd think this was a basic need)
|
| Why are the grocery apps woefully deficient in those two basic needs?

Maybe people don't need it. I track prices, but I
don't have a smartphone and have never used a
spreadsheet. I also don't have a remarkable memory,
but I shop at least once per week, so it's just natural
to know the prices. I've been doing that for years,
even before smartphones were invented. :)

I do forget items to buy if I don't write them down.
For that I use my trusty "pentadigit computer",
comprised of a hand, a pencil and a small pad of paper.
My pentadigit doesn't have GPS or maps, but I know
where the supermarket is, so I don't find that to be
a grave limitation.

It sounds to me like you've developed a passionate
but quirky and somewhat impractical hobby that few
other people are likely to share. (Especially the part
about writing graffiti on unit pricing tags. :) Maybe
you should look into what it takes to write Android
apps so that you can make the app you want? With
over 1 million apps, most of which don't make money,
I'd guess that writing them is not too hard.

On the unit pricing: In the US I don't think it's legal
to use non-appropriate unit pricing. That would defeat
the whole purpose. I know it's not legal where I live.
If you're in the US (you never answered that question)
then you might want to report the store. If you're in the
UK you could still at least research unit pricing law, but
I wouldn't be surprised if there really isn't any. In my
experience the UK seems to lag far behind on "consumer
protection". I haven't actually been there in many years,
but when I was I found that very few items even listed
ingredients, which has been a legal requirement in the
US since early 20th century.

[Gordon Levi]

Polaris Office is free and Excel compatible so that is one way.

[Chris Uppal]

Ger Robertson wrote:

> Does Android have the concept of only making apps available regionally?

Yep.

http://developer.android.com/google/play/filters.html

-- chris

[John Hasler]

Ger Robertson writes:
> I'm in the USA, and I don't even know what garbage I had entered into
> the email address. I can change that to a USA-looking email address if
> that matters, but I had not thought anyone actually expects a real
> email address in that required bogus field.

It isn't a bogus field. If you want to enter an invalid email address
make it some...@something.invalid . singlemalt.com is a real domain
belonging to a company in New York.
--
John Hasler
jha...@newsguy.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

[Ger Robertson]

Roger Mills wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 00:12:20 +0100:

> It enables you to define one or more shopping lists of frequently bought
> items and, as you click on each item, it display the price in several
> different supermarkets. There are several way of compiling your list -
> including scanning the barcodes of items which you have to hand.

That use model sounds almost perfect, as it's similar to what we use here
in the USA for gasoline prices, e.g., GasBuddy.

GasBuddy will figure out (from GPS) where you are, and it will display
the prices of all the gasoline stations in the vicinity.

However, local store prices are data intensive, more so than gasoline
prices, so, I was never hoping to re-create that task (although it does
seem like a reasonable business plan for someone wishing to start an app
business).

As for compiling prices by barcode, it sure does seem logical that the
app should scan both the barcode description and the printed price.

[Ger Robertson]

Chris Ahlstrom wrote, on Fri, 19 Sep 2014 19:31:17 -0400:

> Why not bypass it and enter it into "Android" directly?

Direct entry into Android works fine, as the *entry* isn't really the
problem, so, almost any entry system will work (since we're only talking
50 items per store and only about 3 stores).

What would be best would be barcode scanning entry, where the price is
read right off the store placard, but, I do realize that is a bit much to
ask for in a free app.

However, is it too much to ask for in a so-called 'grocery' app, to allow
these two basic things?
1. Item by price and natural unit
2. Lists by stores

I haven't found a single USA 'grocery' or 'supermarket' app which allows
those two things - hence - the need to improvise.

[Gordon Levi]

Ger Robertson <edin...@singlemalt.com> wrote:

>Roger Mills wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 00:12:20 +0100:
>
>> I'm not sure whereabouts in the world you are - Edinburgh in your
>> address suggests UK but pricing in $ doesn't!
>
>I'm in the USA, and I don't even know what garbage I had entered into the
>email address. I can change that to a USA-looking email address if that
>matters, but I had not thought anyone actually expects a real email
>address in that required bogus field.

Spammers just hope it does! You have caused the spam intended for you
to go to a registered site
<http://dig.whois.com.au/whois/singlemalt.com>. If you use any address
you like that ends with .invalid you will ensure that the spam gets
thrown away before it disturbs anybody
<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2606#section-2>.

[Ger Robertson]

Mayayana wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 09:49:03 -0400:


> Maybe people don't need it. I track prices, but I

> don't have a smartphone and have never used a spreadsheet. ...

> it's just natural to know the prices.

> I do forget items to buy if I don't write them down.

I understand two things from your comments above:
1. You know the prices
2. Most people just need the list (not the price)

That may explain why the grocery apps are woefully deficient in allowing
a natural way to enter and compare prices.

> It sounds to me like you've developed a passionate
> but quirky and somewhat impractical hobby that few other people are
> likely to share.

I do agree that it may be unusual for someone to want all the prices to
be shown in price per natural unit, as, maybe everyone else just cares
about the final price per "item".

> Maybe you should look into what it takes to write Android
> apps so that you can make the app you want?

I have programmed in the past (Fortan IV, for example, and IBM 370
Assembly Language, and PL/1 and COBOL, but all that was in college which
was, as you can probably tell, a long time ago).

How long do you think it takes to learn to create a decent Android app
(more so than "hello world")?
10 hours? 100 hours? 1,000 hours?

> On the unit pricing: In the US I don't think it's legal
> to use non-appropriate unit pricing. That would defeat the whole
> purpose. I know it's not legal where I live.

Costco clearly uses a mix of natural-unit pricing (e.g., cost per ounce,
cost per pound, cost per gallon, cost per liter, etc.); but they also
price the tomato sauce by "cost per jar", and tuna fish by "cost per
can". I have complained numerous times in the past year; but nothing has
changed, so, I resort to defacing their placards (which, the store
manager tells me results in no changes as they simply re-print them from
the factory).

> If you're in the US (you never answered that question) then you might
> want to report the store.

At Safeway, I had reported two exact-sized cartons of whipping cream,
each of which had a *different* unit price. The store manager told me
that they get the stickers from corporate, and he promised to fix it (but
he left the wrong unit prices in place). The next time I was there, they
had the correct unit price, so, sometimes talking to the manager works.

However, at Costco, I've complained (via their suggestion box) numerous
times, even going so far as to attaching the placard to my complaint.
They have done nothing. I was asked once by an employee why I was
defacing the stickers, and he kindly brought the manager to me, who
simply complained that they print whatever it is that corporate tells
them to print.

So, at least with these two store chains, it's up to corporate, which, as
we all know, is more difficult to reach with our limited resources as
individuals. So, unless *everyone* cares for unit prices, we don't get
them (it must not be a law here in California, even though you'd think
everything is a law in California).

> I found that very few items even listed ingredients, which has been a
> legal requirement in the US since early 20th century.

I don't know the US laws, but, I *think* ingredients need to be listed,
and they need to be listed in terms of proportion (largest first).

[Ger Robertson]

Chris Uppal wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:58:14 +0100:

> http://developer.android.com/google/play/filters.html

Looks like they use "Country Targeting":

Country Targeting
When you upload your app to Google Play, you can select the countries in
which to distribute your app under Pricing and Distribution. The app will
then be available to users in only the countries you select.

[Ger Robertson]

John Hasler wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 09:29:26 -0500:

> If you want to enter an invalid email address make it
> some...@something.invalid . singlemalt.com is a real domain belonging
> to a company in New York.

Oh, well. I understand. I had entered simply my favorite town, and
liquid, but, I'm perfectly happy entering other bogus information instead.

How does this look for an email?

[Ger Robertson]

Gordon Levi wrote, on Sun, 21 Sep 2014 01:17:12 +1000:

> Spammers just hope it does! You have caused the spam intended for you to
> go to a registered site <http://dig.whois.com.au/whois/singlemalt.com>.
> If you use any address you like that ends with .invalid you will ensure
> that the spam gets thrown away before it disturbs anybody

I had realized the *need* for a bogus email (personally, I think that
field should be optional), so that's why I had entered gibberish.

I would have thought, by now, that spammers didn't really believe *any*
of the email addresses provided in nntp headers.

I guess they still do, so, I'm perfectly happy changing the email header
line, since it matters not, to me, what it says.

Thanks for letting me know.

[Ger Robertson]

Ger Robertson wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 12:33:51 +0000:

> Certainly spreadsheets would fulfill this requirement, but, I don't have
> a single spreadsheet on my S3, as I had thought the grocery apps would
> do the basics.

Actually, I was wrong.

I have most of my apps in the app drawer not on my home page (for
clarity), so I hadn't noticed that I had the Microsoft Excel app
installed (paradoxically, it's not listed under Microsoft, nor under
Excel in the Android app drawer).

In addition, I just downloaded Google "Sheets", although I tried to turn
off access to my contacts (why would a spreadsheet need my contact list?)
but it wouldn't let me turn that stuff off, so, I view it with a grain of
suspicion.

[Ger Robertson]

Big_Al wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 09:08:05 -0400:

> What's wrong with text?

Truth be told, I have been using Android "Inkpad", which, as you noted,
works.

However, it's not all that efficient, mostly because the lack of an
automatic sorting order makes it inefficient to *find* things that I've
entered.

Also, the line-wrap makes the important pricing information (the price
per natural unit is usually last), but you can't sort by that.

So, all in all, pure text works for almost every task on the planet, but,
it's not the most efficient when it comes to sorting on an Android phone.

In Windows and Linux text editors, we have the "!sort" command; but on
Android, I don't know if the "sort" command exists for Inkpad.

[Mayayana]

| I do agree that it may be unusual for someone to want all the prices to
| be shown in price per natural unit, as, maybe everyone else just cares
| about the final price per "item".
|

I wouldn't say that. The whole point of unit pricing is to
allow people to bypass sneaky marketing and packaging.
I remember being in CVS with my ladyfriend at one time
when she was looking for moisturizing cream. The prices
didn't seem too bad. But in many cases the creams were
in deceptive bottles, packed into deceptive boxes. The
highest price was $2,600/gallon! Yet they were all essentially
mineral oil with water and emulsifiers.

These days a pound of coffee is not a pound. A pint of
ice cream is not a pint. I'd find it hard to shop without unit
pricing. But I haven't seen what you're describing, except
in some packaged, processed items. That is, I'd be surprised
to see coffee unit-priced by the can, but I could see unit-pricing
a single donut in a plastic bag. I think the per-can pricing on
tuna must be illegal, but I'm not sure how the law works. It
may be state-based rather than federal.

| > Maybe you should look into what it takes to write Android
| > apps so that you can make the app you want?
|
| I have programmed in the past (Fortan IV, for example, and IBM 370
| Assembly Language, and PL/1 and COBOL, but all that was in college which
| was, as you can probably tell, a long time ago).
|
| How long do you think it takes to learn to create a decent Android app
| (more so than "hello world")?
| 10 hours? 100 hours? 1,000 hours?
|

Good question. Part of the reason I don't have a
smartphone, besides high cost and lack of need, is
that if I got one I'd want to be able to control it.
I have a choice of 3 sleazy OS makers (Google, Apple
and MS) with no way to know what's calling home,
etc. And malware is now becoming a problem. So I
figure I'd need to put a lot of time into
figuring out how the whole thing works. And that
just makes me groan. So far I've avoided spending
even one minute on figuring out smartphones.

I haven't looked into app development. (I made some
money on shareware around 2000 and now I know
better than to invest lots of time in a passing fad
with the intention of making money.) My impression
is that Android software is done in Java. I expect it's
probably a fairly simple toolset allowing people to plug
in different combinations of Google's pre-cooked
functionality. But I don't actually know.

|
| > On the unit pricing: In the US I don't think it's legal
| > to use non-appropriate unit pricing. That would defeat the whole
| > purpose. I know it's not legal where I live.
|
| Costco clearly uses a mix of natural-unit pricing (e.g., cost per ounce,
| cost per pound, cost per gallon, cost per liter, etc.); but they also
| price the tomato sauce by "cost per jar", and tuna fish by "cost per
| can".

Interesting. I wonder if their pseudo-private status
allows them to bypass the law, assuming your state
has a good law.
I know there's been trouble in the past with labelling.
I live in MA and sometimes that gets enforced, but
stores seem to be doing it more. And I think there may
be exceptions allowed if a store has scanners to check the
price. But that doesn't really help when you're at the
checkout and get overcharged on an item that's not
labelled.

| I was asked once by an employee why I was
| defacing the stickers, and he kindly brought the manager to me, who
| simply complained that they print whatever it is that corporate tells
| them to print.
|

It's always someone else's fault. :) I suppose that's really
the overall design of American business. The management has
no say. Orders come from the executive. But then if you go
to the executive you're told that they don't know about such
details. Ask management.

| > I found that very few items even listed ingredients, which has been a
| > legal requirement in the US since early 20th century.
|
| I don't know the US laws, but, I *think* ingredients need to be listed,
| and they need to be listed in terms of proportion (largest first).
|

Yes. Although there are some official items that can
skip the listing if the ingredients don't depart from
officially allowed ingredients. I think ketchup is one
of those. And beer. Most beer doesn't list ingredients.
As a former home brewer I know that Bud uses about
30% rice and Miller uses a doctored extract of hops
instead of real hops. I wouldn't think those would be
considered official ingredients of beer. They're certainly
not ingredients that anyone would expect to find in beer.
(Assuming one considers Bud and Miller to be beer in
the first place.) But I suppose the companies can
probably lobby the FDA for inclusions.

[nospam]

In article <lvk8o4$1n4$1...@dont-email.me>, Mayayana

<maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> | I do agree that it may be unusual for someone to want all the prices to
> | be shown in price per natural unit, as, maybe everyone else just cares
> | about the final price per "item".
> |
>
> I wouldn't say that. The whole point of unit pricing is to
> allow people to bypass sneaky marketing and packaging.
> I remember being in CVS with my ladyfriend at one time
> when she was looking for moisturizing cream. The prices
> didn't seem too bad. But in many cases the creams were
> in deceptive bottles, packed into deceptive boxes. The
> highest price was $2,600/gallon! Yet they were all essentially
> mineral oil with water and emulsifiers.

make it yourself if you think you can do a better job for less.

> These days a pound of coffee is not a pound. A pint of
> ice cream is not a pint.

bullshit. if it says 1 lb it must be 1 lb by law.

the usual trick is that they use the same size container with less
stuff in it.

for instance, orange juice is now 59 ounce cartons but looks and costs
the same as a 64 ounce carton.

<http://www.nbcnews.com/id/35801137/ns/business-us_business/t/tropicana-
shrinks-oj-cartons-raises-prices/>

> I'd find it hard to shop without unit
> pricing. But I haven't seen what you're describing, except
> in some packaged, processed items. That is, I'd be surprised
> to see coffee unit-priced by the can, but I could see unit-pricing
> a single donut in a plastic bag. I think the per-can pricing on
> tuna must be illegal, but I'm not sure how the law works. It
> may be state-based rather than federal.

why would pricing by the container be illegal? lots of stuff is priced
that way.

> | > Maybe you should look into what it takes to write Android
> | > apps so that you can make the app you want?
> |
> | I have programmed in the past (Fortan IV, for example, and IBM 370
> | Assembly Language, and PL/1 and COBOL, but all that was in college which
> | was, as you can probably tell, a long time ago).
> |
> | How long do you think it takes to learn to create a decent Android app
> | (more so than "hello world")?
> | 10 hours? 100 hours? 1,000 hours?
> |
> Good question. Part of the reason I don't have a
> smartphone, besides high cost and lack of need, is
> that if I got one I'd want to be able to control it.

it's easy to control.

> I have a choice of 3 sleazy OS makers (Google, Apple
> and MS) with no way to know what's calling home,
> etc.

yes there is.

> And malware is now becoming a problem.

mainly on android.

> So I
> figure I'd need to put a lot of time into
> figuring out how the whole thing works. And that
> just makes me groan. So far I've avoided spending
> even one minute on figuring out smartphones.

that much is clear.

> I haven't looked into app development. (I made some
> money on shareware around 2000 and now I know
> better than to invest lots of time in a passing fad
> with the intention of making money.) My impression
> is that Android software is done in Java. I expect it's
> probably a fairly simple toolset allowing people to plug
> in different combinations of Google's pre-cooked
> functionality. But I don't actually know.

you got the java part right.

>
> | > I found that very few items even listed ingredients, which has been a
> | > legal requirement in the US since early 20th century.
> |
> | I don't know the US laws, but, I *think* ingredients need to be listed,
> | and they need to be listed in terms of proportion (largest first).
> |
>
> Yes. Although there are some official items that can
> skip the listing if the ingredients don't depart from
> officially allowed ingredients. I think ketchup is one
> of those. And beer. Most beer doesn't list ingredients.

alcohol is exempt. ketchup is not.

> As a former home brewer I know that Bud uses about
> 30% rice and Miller uses a doctored extract of hops
> instead of real hops. I wouldn't think those would be
> considered official ingredients of beer. They're certainly
> not ingredients that anyone would expect to find in beer.
> (Assuming one considers Bud and Miller to be beer in
> the first place.) But I suppose the companies can
> probably lobby the FDA for inclusions.

that doesn't mean it's not beer.

[Mayayana]

| > These days a pound of coffee is not a pound. A pint of
| > ice cream is not a pint.
|
| bullshit. if it says 1 lb it must be 1 lb by law.
|
| the usual trick is that they use the same size container with less
| stuff in it.
| for instance, orange juice is now 59 ounce cartons but looks and costs
| the same as a 64 ounce carton.
|

Ah, the illustrious nospam, arguer extraordinaire.
Faster than a speeding keyboard. Able to agree and
disagree in a single insult. Able to bend reckless
dogma into the appearance of cogent commentary
on any topic he's only passingly familiar with.
Look! There in this group! It's....NOSPAM!

I thought you were a diehard AppleSeed, yet you
bring your unique style of apparent analysis to an
android group?

|> I think the per-can pricing on
|> tuna must be illegal, but I'm not sure how the law works. It
|> may be state-based rather than federal.

| why would pricing by the container be illegal? lots of stuff is priced
| that way.
|

Where I live unit pricing is the law, at least for groceries.
I don't know exactly how the categories are defined, but it
generally applies to products sold by weight or measure. If
the product is a doughnut there may be no unit pricing other
than the donut itself. But a can of tuna is packaged by weight
or volume. A can unit for that would defeat the purpose of
unit pricing, which is supposed to list the price per standardized
unit: pint, ounce, pound, gallon, etc. Capiche? That's the
whole point of unit pricing.

If it just shows the price per packaging unit that's known
as a price tag. The unit pricing is a regulated system with
specific requirements about information provided on a sticker,
usually stuck to the shelf under an item, so that customers
can readily compare actual pricing per weight or volume. If
you're not familiar with that it's possible that the state you
live in doesn't have a unit pricing law.

[nospam]

In article <lvkfol$iqf$1...@dont-email.me>, Mayayana

<maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> | > These days a pound of coffee is not a pound. A pint of
> | > ice cream is not a pint.
> |
> | bullshit. if it says 1 lb it must be 1 lb by law.
> |
> | the usual trick is that they use the same size container with less
> | stuff in it.
> | for instance, orange juice is now 59 ounce cartons but looks and costs
> | the same as a 64 ounce carton.
>
> Ah, the illustrious nospam, arguer extraordinaire.
> Faster than a speeding keyboard. Able to agree and
> disagree in a single insult. Able to bend reckless
> dogma into the appearance of cogent commentary
> on any topic he's only passingly familiar with.
> Look! There in this group! It's....NOSPAM!
>
> I thought you were a diehard AppleSeed, yet you
> bring your unique style of apparent analysis to an
> android group?

true to form, all you do is insult.

i use all platforms, and unlike you, i understand their advantages and
disadvantages of each. none are best at everything. i've been using
android for a few years. i also use iphones and mac and windows.

the real question is why are you here? you don't use a smarphone, you
don't want a smartphone, and you use is an outdated computer running
decade old software.

> |> I think the per-can pricing on
> |> tuna must be illegal, but I'm not sure how the law works. It
> |> may be state-based rather than federal.
>
> | why would pricing by the container be illegal? lots of stuff is priced
> | that way.
>
> Where I live unit pricing is the law, at least for groceries.

<http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120729/NEWS
/207290339>
The law, signed earlier this month by Gov. Deval Patrick, gives
grocery sellers the option of doing away with the little white
sticker prices that for decades have been individually applied to
food products.

It also lets Massachusetts catch up to the rest of the country, as
the commonwealth is the last state in the nation to make this move.

...

But consumers who aren't looking forward to mixing food shopping and
technology shouldn't worry. While the item stickers may be going
away, shelf pricing isn't. Instead, shelf labels will be made bigger
and brighter under the new law.

[tlvp]

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 15:29:52 +0000 (UTC), Ger Robertson wrote:

> I just downloaded Google "Sheets", although I tried to turn
> off access to my contacts (why would a spreadsheet need my contact list?)

It's not that the spreadsheet *needs* your contact list -- it's that Google
*wants* your contact list :-) . Big difference. Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

[tlvp]

Fine. But be aware you can have the best of both worlds, with

: edin...@singlemalt.invalid ,

if you like -- it's the "invalid" part that seals the bargain here :-) .

HTH. Cheers, -- tlvp

[Gene E. Bloch]

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 12:10:06 -0400, Mayayana wrote:

> I haven't looked into app development. (I made some
> money on shareware around 2000 and now I know
> better than to invest lots of time in a passing fad
> with the intention of making money.) My impression
> is that Android software is done in Java. I expect it's
> probably a fairly simple toolset allowing people to plug
> in different combinations of Google's pre-cooked
> functionality. But I don't actually know.

Not so easy.

I haven't counted them (it wouldn't be possible, really) but there are
many hundreds of API calls.

Android code is Java code, but a program is also driven by descriptor
files which get compiled into code you don't need to ever see. This in
particular describes the user interface.

For fun I wrote an Android program to generate some random numbers for
lottery tickets. I spent about 5 or 6 weeks and 1500 lines of code
setting up the interface and logic, and when that was satisfactory, I
used maybe half an hour and maybe 20 lines of code to do the actual
calculation.

The numbers are approximate, but my SDK is broken right now, so I can't
easily look at the code (my assignment for later today, after the backup
completes, is to try again to figure out what the problem is).

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

[Gene E. Bloch]

Google Goggles should be able to scan the bar code and give you useful
info, but I don't use it enough to know if it does the job for you.

There seem to be other apps to scan bar codes and more, but I have no
familiarity with any of item.

If you have an iPhone, the above might not help much :-)

[Big Al]

Yep, not sure about sorting things in a file, but my editor sorts the
file names. Which of course only works for the major categories.

I hear your pain, I'm trying to fix an issue and I don't like my
workaround and I KNOW someone else has had the same issue, I just can't
find him. LOL

[Gene E. Bloch]

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 13:20:07 +0000 (UTC), Ger Robertson wrote:

> Roger Mills wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 00:12:20 +0100:
>
>> I'm not sure whereabouts in the world you are - Edinburgh in your
>> address suggests UK but pricing in $ doesn't!
>
> I'm in the USA, and I don't even know what garbage I had entered into the
> email address. I can change that to a USA-looking email address if that
> matters, but I had not thought anyone actually expects a real email
> address in that required bogus field.
>
>> I'm in the UK and use an Android app called My Supermarket, which does
>> everything you want without messing about with PCs and spreadsheets.
>
> Funny. I see it easily on the PC from your link, but I don't see it on my
> Android phone when I go to Google Play.
>
> From the PC, this is what I see:

> mySupermarket 嚙碾 Shopping List

> mySupermarket - August 26, 2014
>
> But, from Android, all I see when I search for "MySupermarket" or when I
> search for "My Supermarket", all I see is:
> supermarket price comparison by PreisEnte (beta)
> Basha's Supermarket by MyWebGrocer, Inc.
> POC! Supermarket Offers by Radiana
> My Nearest SuperMarket by aplyss
> and a few coupon apps
>
> Does Android have the concept of only making apps available regionally?

I believe Android does have the concept of not displaying apps that are
not compatible with your device.

[Mayayana]

|
| I haven't counted them (it wouldn't be possible, really) but there are
| many hundreds of API calls.
|
| Android code is Java code, but a program is also driven by descriptor
| files which get compiled into code you don't need to ever see. This in
| particular describes the user interface.
|
| For fun I wrote an Android program to generate some random numbers for
| lottery tickets. I spent about 5 or 6 weeks and 1500 lines of code
| setting up the interface and logic, and when that was satisfactory, I
| used maybe half an hour and maybe 20 lines of code to do the actual
| calculation.
|

Thanks. Interesting info. I would think it would get much
easier once you get settled, but I suppose the GUI may
be especially tricky on such a small screen. I had imagined
a very simple, WYSIWYG, drag/drop IDE.

[Gene E. Bloch]

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 15:17:43 +0000 (UTC), Ger Robertson wrote:

> I have programmed in the past (Fortan IV, for example, and IBM 370
> Assembly Language, and PL/1 and COBOL, but all that was in college which
> was, as you can probably tell, a long time ago).
>
> How long do you think it takes to learn to create a decent Android app
> (more so than "hello world")?
> 10 hours? 100 hours? 1,000 hours?

I am experienced in C and a couple of Fortrans and a few other high
level languages, and lots of assembly languages for machines even I
haven't heard of (lost in the mists of time).

Java, like C++, is fairly hard for me because of the differences in
approach. Android adds another level of complexity, and the languages
are now huge. One example is this book I have in my hand, pulled
pseudo-randomly from a shelf, called Beginning Android 2. It's 390 pages
long.

I can testify that when you have finished this book and a couple of
others, you won't be fully ready to go.

Finally, I just dove in, using the official Android site, which was a
bit better than the books. When I had a problem or a poorly documented
method to deal with, it turned out that Googling, rather than searching
on the Android site, worked a lot better.

I'd say 100 hours if you're as slow as I am, maybe more.

Note that I am retired; if I was doing that at work, I'd have spent many
more hours per week at it and I'd have asked my coworkers a lot of
questions, so I would have gotten there quicker.

[Gene E. Bloch]

I don't write code on such a small screen, I write code in a GDI on a PC
with a 23" monitor and test it on an emulator.

One of the popular development programs is Eclipse with plugins for
Android.

You need the Java Development Kit from Java.com, Eclipse from
Eclipse.org, and the Android Plugin from developer.android.com.

But I think I might have gotten those names & sites wrong. However, I
keep finding guides to installing it all (which I have to do later -
it's all broken right now). And there are new things happening.

Like an Android SDK which (I think) doesn't use Eclipse, and the
upcoming Android Studio (link on the same Android page mentioned above),
which I know nothing about yet.

[Gene E. Bloch]

Here's a way to get Eclipse with the Android SDK (ADT, the Android
Development Tools):

http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html

big blue button part way down the page.

The Studio is available there too; it's in Beta.

BTW, you can learn about the simplicity(!) of Android starting here:

https://developer.android.com/guide/index.html

[Ger Robertson]

Gordon Levi wrote, on Sun, 21 Sep 2014 00:00:42 +1000:

> Polaris Office is free and Excel compatible so that is one way.

I had not known about "Polaris Office" so, I found this in Play:
1. Polaris Office, by Infraware, Inc.
Create, edit, & share Word, Powerpoint, & Excel documents & view PDFs.
2. Polaris Office for Good, by Infraware, Inc.
Enterprise Office Appliations for Good Dynamics

Two questions:
Q1: Does Polaris Office print?
Q2: What is that second thing?

[Ger Robertson]

Gene E. Bloch wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 13:37:29 -0700:

> One example is this book I have in my hand, pulled pseudo-randomly from
> a shelf, called Beginning Android 2. It's 390 pages long.

Heh heh ... I learned UNIX C programming, decades ago, with a thin
paperback titled something like "Learn C in 21 days" or something like
that.

I wish I still had that book. It made it all seem so simple.

[Ger Robertson]

Mayayana wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 12:10:06 -0400:

> The whole point of unit pricing is to
> allow people to bypass sneaky marketing and packaging.

I agree with the point of natural-unit pricing being a good thing.

I, for one, not only deface the placards at Costco which show pricing by
the can or bottle, but I also refuse to purchase *any* item so marked.

If *everyone* did that, they'd stop it pronto.

Maybe I can send a few photos to Consumer Reports, but I can never find a
good contact of a real *human* at Consumers Union to send this
information to.

> As a former home brewer I know that Bud uses about 30% rice and Miller
> uses a doctored extract of hops instead of real hops.

Heh heh ... I have *been* on a tour of the Budweiser Brewery in New
Jersey off the NJ Turnpike. Do you know what beer *looks* like when it's
fermenting? Uugh! Huge basketball-court sized squares of brown bubbly
frothy disgusting brewing stuff. The "beechwood chips" are an entire
truckload of *lumber*, the size of the stuff you build roof rafters out
of.

But, in the plush bar, at the end of the tour, that *fresh* beer, on the
house, is the *best* you've ever tasted from the brand!

[Ger Robertson]

Gene E. Bloch wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 13:56:22 -0700:

> You need the Java Development Kit from Java.com, Eclipse from
> Eclipse.org, and the Android Plugin from developer.android.com.

I'd most likely use a Linux emulation package such as Eclipse (if it
exists on Linux), where, I agree, I don't think anyone would code on the
Android platform itself.

You code and test on the PC with better compute power; and then *test* on
the Android device itself.

[Ger Robertson]

nospam wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:37:06 -0400:

> i use all platforms, and unlike you, i understand their advantages and
> disadvantages of each. none are best at everything. i've been using
> android for a few years. i also use iphones and mac and windows.

I also use all platforms, although I'm actually brand new to the MacBook
Air which my company gave me this week. I received no training on it, so,
it's (naturally) driving me crazy, but, I *was surprised* at how well it
connected, in my home network earlier this morning, to my PC.

It took *forever* to download and install the software, but it was all
point and click for me. All I had to do was enter the IP address of the
printer (and that was it!). It did everything else for me automatically.

Likewise with accessing Windows shares. It just accessed them without me
even having to say what WORKGROUP I was in, which, interestingly, even
Windows won't do that without you telling it the workgroup (e.g., MSHOME).

I have no idea *which* MacBook Air it is though, as they all seem to look
alike when I google what one I have.

[Aragorn]

On Sunday 21 September 2014 00:15, Ger Robertson conveyed the following
to alt.os.linux...

Yes, but this depends on whether the device manufacturer allowed for
that in the setup of the device.

> Q2: What is that second thing?

If you had Googled it, then you would have ascertained that it is the
more extensive enterprise-grade version.

https://www.polarisoffice.com/view/product

--
= Aragorn =

http://www.linuxcounter.net - registrant #223157

[Ger Robertson]

tlvp wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 15:00:56 -0400:

> if you like -- it's the "invalid" part that seals the bargain here .

So, if I understand, that "invalid" is some kind of *email* address?
It doesn't have a ".com" or a ".edu", so, it looks weird to me.
Of course, all it has to do is look OK to a mail and/or nntp server.

Is the accepted syntax "anyt...@anything.anything_else.invalid"?

[Ger Robertson]

Gene E. Bloch wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 12:39:28 -0700:

> I believe Android does have the concept of not displaying apps that are
> not compatible with your device.

Thanks.

It's nice to entertain the idea of writing my own app, but, if I were to
think logically about it, I can't imagine an app being better than a
spreadsheet (which has tremendous native powers of sorting & reporting).

I guess there could be a *business* in reporting prices at local food
stores though, similar to what GasBuddy does. I wonder if anyone has
tried that?

The hard part, of course, is *maintaining* the data. I guess, if enough
money came in, the business would pay people to maintain the database,
but, it seems that some kind of *automation* or agreement with the
management would be needed for the most efficient & timely updates to the
prices.

I wonder if corporate management would be on board, or against the idea?

[nospam]

In article <lvkvhq$ibf$1...@news.albasani.net>, Ger Robertson

<some...@something.invalid> wrote:

> I have no idea *which* MacBook Air it is though, as they all seem to look
> alike when I google what one I have.

apple menu, about this mac, then click more info... and it will tell
you all about it.

[nospam]

In article <lvkvn6$ibf$2...@news.albasani.net>, Ger Robertson

<some...@something.invalid> wrote:

>
> > if you like -- it's the "invalid" part that seals the bargain here .
>
> So, if I understand, that "invalid" is some kind of *email* address?
> It doesn't have a ".com" or a ".edu", so, it looks weird to me.
> Of course, all it has to do is look OK to a mail and/or nntp server.
>
> Is the accepted syntax "anyt...@anything.anything_else.invalid"?

a domain name ending in .invalid is just that, invalid.

[Ger Robertson]

Big_Al wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 09:08:05 -0400:

> What's wrong with text?

> You know, KISS, works most of the time. You can export excel to text.

I *have* been using "InkPad" to input my current grocery lists.
It's pure text, but it allows multiple "topics", one for each store.

The problem, of course, is *finding* things, once input, since it doesn't
have the greatest sorting ability (I don't even know if it *can* sort).

Plus, anything long doesn't wrap; it just disappears off to the right
hand edge, so, the price is often hidden.

Anyway, pure text works.
A spreadsheet is probably better (because it sorts better).
Perhaps best would be a dedicated grocery app that did what it is
supposed to do.

To me, a dedicated grocery app should ...
1. Input as efficiently as possible (scanning would be perfect).
2. Sort as desired (dairy, meats, baking, produce, etc.)
3. Allow for natural-unit pricing (calculating it would be nice).

In addition, it would be nice if the grocery app ...
4. Compared stores and reported which was best for an item

[Ger Robertson]

Gene E. Bloch wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 12:34:33 -0700:

> Google Goggles should be able to scan the bar code and give you useful
> info, but I don't use it enough to know if it does the job for you.

I had not heard of "Goggles", so I looked it up on Play:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.unveil&hl=en

Description
Search by taking a picture: point your mobile phone camera at a
painting, a famous landmark, a barcode or QR code, a product, or a
popular image. If Goggles finds it in its database, it will provide
you with useful information.

Goggles can read text in English, French, Italian, German, Spanish,
Portuguese, Russian, and Turkish, and translate it into other
languages.

Goggles also works as a barcode / QR code scanner.

Features:
- Scan barcodes using Goggles to get product information
- Scan QR codes using Goggles to extract information
- Recognize famous landmarks
- Translate by taking a picture of foreign language text
- Add Contacts by scanning business cards or QR codes
- Scan text using Optical Character Recognition (OCR)
- Recognize paintings, books, DVDs, CDs, and just about any 2D image
- Solve Sudoku puzzles
- Find similar products

[Ger Robertson]

Gene E. Bloch wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 12:34:33 -0700:

> There seem to be other apps to scan bar codes and more, but I have no
> familiarity with any of item.
>
> If you have an iPhone, the above might not help much

I have iStuff, but I mainly walk around with Android in my hand.

Most of the grocery apps did have an integral bar-code scanner, which, I
used, but, I don't yet see any advantage since the bar-code scanner
simply saved the barcode, without actually *populating* the description
field in most of the tests I ran.

I must admit, I found it so useless (without cellular) that I didn't
bother to test it further.

However, to be complete, here's the barcode status of the apps I tested:
1. OurGroceries => has an integral barcode scanner
2. Shopping List => has an integral barcode scanner
3. Out of Milk => has an integral barcode scanner
4. OI Shopping List => does NOT have an integral barcode scanner
5. Grocery IQ => has an integral barcode scanner

[John Hasler]

Ger Robertson writes:
> So, if I understand, that "invalid" is some kind of *email* address?
> It doesn't have a ".com" or a ".edu", so, it looks weird to me.

"invalid" is a top-level domain like .com, .org, .edu, etc. It is
reserved for the specific purpose of creating invalid domain names for
use in examples, testing, etc. Nothing ending in .invalid will ever
resolve to the IP number of any server.
--
John Hasler
jha...@newsguy.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

[Ger Robertson]

nospam wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 18:43:36 -0400:

> apple menu, about this mac, then click more info... and it will tell you
> all about it.

That was easy enough.

It had a set of menus, which informed me that the new thing is:
- OS X verison 10.9.4
- Processor 1.4GHz Intel Core i5
- Memory 8GB 1600MHz DDR3
- Graphics Intel HD Graphics 5000
- Model Name MacBook Air
- Model Identifier MacBookAir6,2

Is that a decent machine?

[nospam]

In article <lvl24p$ibf$7...@news.albasani.net>, Ger Robertson

<some...@something.invalid> wrote:

> > apple menu, about this mac, then click more info... and it will tell you
> > all about it.
>
> That was easy enough.
>
> It had a set of menus, which informed me that the new thing is:
> - OS X verison 10.9.4

10.9.5 just came out.

apple menu, software update, let it do its thing. there may be
additional updates too.

> - Processor 1.4GHz Intel Core i5
> - Memory 8GB 1600MHz DDR3
> - Graphics Intel HD Graphics 5000
> - Model Name MacBook Air
> - Model Identifier MacBookAir6,2
>
> Is that a decent machine?

that all depends what you want to do with it.

for normal every tasks? absolutely.

high end video rendering? not so much. that wasn't its intended purpose.

[Ger Robertson]

nospam wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 19:33:30 -0400:

> apple menu, software update, let it do its thing. there may be
> additional updates too.

Most software updates break things (yes, even on iOS stuff), so I'll
wait, but thanks for letting me know, as there *was* a rectangular box at
the top right that was saying to update something (probably the OS).

[nospam]

In article <lvl38l$ibf$8...@news.albasani.net>, Ger Robertson

<some...@something.invalid> wrote:

> > apple menu, software update, let it do its thing. there may be
> > additional updates too.
>
> Most software updates break things

no they don't.

> (yes, even on iOS stuff),

also wrong.

> so I'll
> wait, but thanks for letting me know, as there *was* a rectangular box at
> the top right that was saying to update something (probably the OS).

probably.

[Ger Robertson]

nospam wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 19:33:30 -0400:

>> Is that a decent machine?
> that all depends what you want to do with it.
> for normal every tasks? absolutely.

I don't actually plan on using it except for typical work stuff, which is
your basic communications (outlook, firefox, etc.) stuff.

Thanks for letting me know how to figure out what it was that I now have.

I'll slowly learn about it (for example, it would not read a Windows-
formatted USB stick, which is odd) ... I wonder if I can get a free
course at the Apple store? Probably not, as it's not a personal laptop
but a business one.

[Ger Robertson]

nospam wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 19:41:04 -0400:

>> Most software updates break things
>
> no they don't.
>
>> (yes, even on iOS stuff),
>
> also wrong.

Don't try updating iOS then, because it will break connectivity to Linux,
but, let's not go there as this is about Android, and not linux.

[nospam]

In article <lvl3c8$ibf$9...@news.albasani.net>, Ger Robertson

<some...@something.invalid> wrote:

> >> Is that a decent machine?
> > that all depends what you want to do with it.
> > for normal every tasks? absolutely.
>
> I don't actually plan on using it except for typical work stuff, which is
> your basic communications (outlook, firefox, etc.) stuff.

more than adequate for that.

> Thanks for letting me know how to figure out what it was that I now have.
>
> I'll slowly learn about it (for example, it would not read a Windows-
> formatted USB stick, which is odd) ...

nonsense. of course it will. plug it in and read whatever is on it.

> I wonder if I can get a free
> course at the Apple store? Probably not, as it's not a personal laptop
> but a business one.

ask your boss.

[nospam]

In article <lvl3eo$ibf$1...@news.albasani.net>, Ger Robertson

<some...@something.invalid> wrote:

> >> Most software updates break things
> >
> > no they don't.
> >
> >> (yes, even on iOS stuff),
> >
> > also wrong.
>
> Don't try updating iOS then, because it will break connectivity to Linux,

linux is not a supported system, and not just for ios, but for a lot of
things.

updating the mac's system isn't going to break anything unless there is
a failure in the process (not the update itself) which is extremely
unlikely.

> but, let's not go there as this is about Android, and not linux.

nor is it about ios.

[Ger Robertson]

nospam wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 20:01:37 -0400:

> ask your boss.

I'm overwhelmed at the moment, but it should not be too difficult since I
already own Android and iOS devices, Windows and Linux laptops, so, it's
just yet another operating system that I'm unfamiliar with at the start.

[David W. Hodgins]

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 18:39:35 -0400, Ger Robertson <some...@something.invalid> wrote:

> So, if I understand, that "invalid" is some kind of *email* address?
> It doesn't have a ".com" or a ".edu", so, it looks weird to me.
> Of course, all it has to do is look OK to a mail and/or nntp server.
> Is the accepted syntax "anyt...@anything.anything_else.invalid"?

Correct. The .invalid top level domain is a rfc 1918 address. Any host
name with that tld will never resolve to an ip address. See
http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1918.txt for details.

You can also use anyt...@nomail.afraid.org, but please do a google
search on the address before using it, to ensure no one else has
already used the same anything part, with the host name
nomail.afraid.org.

$ host nomail.afraid.org
nomail.afraid.org has address 127.0.0.212
nomail.afraid.org mail is handled by 10 nirvana.admins.ws.

I registered the host name, and started using it, due to the swen
virus. I've given blanket permission to anyone to use it, provided
they use a unique anything part.

The nirvana.admins.ws host name goes to an ip address used as a
spamtrap, used to add ip addresses to a block list.

$ host nirvana.admins.ws
nirvana.admins.ws has address 217.23.49.208
nirvana.admins.ws mail is handled by 10 nirvana.admins.ws.

See http://www.uceprotect.net/en/index.php?m=2&s=0 for details.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

--
Change nomail.afraid.org to ody.ca to reply by email.
(nomail.afraid.org has been set up specifically for
use in usenet. Feel free to use it yourself.)

[nospam]

In article <lvl5j2$2u2$1...@news.albasani.net>, Ger Robertson

<some...@something.invalid> wrote:

> I'm overwhelmed at the moment, but it should not be too difficult since I
> already own Android and iOS devices, Windows and Linux laptops, so, it's
> just yet another operating system that I'm unfamiliar with at the start.

launch terminal and you'll feel right at home. it's unix under the hood.

[Gene E. Bloch]

If I've done a good job, it works OK on that last step.

I finally learned (thanks, Google) how to uninstall the old version and
reinstall the new of Eclipse on W7 and managed to also get the proper
version of the ADK (Android plugin for Eclipse) installed and running.

I can't get emulators for the later versions of Android to run, however
(and all the instructions I can find don't look quite like my program),
so I did that testing on an older version, which did run. Somewhat.

The app runs fine on the tablet and phone (your last step!), but I still
have a project, namely to figure (or find) out how to make the current
version of Android run here.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

[Gene E. Bloch]

I used Kernighan and Ritchie, the horses of horses mouth fame, also
quite thin (but it *is* 224 pages long), and never went back to Fortran
:-)

[Ken Blake]

I have a copy of Kernighan and Ritchie sitting around here somewhere,
but I haven't looked at it in a long time. I don't even know where it
is.

[tlvp]

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 22:15:38 +0000 (UTC), Ger Robertson wrote:

> 2. Polaris Office for Good, by Infraware, Inc.

> ...

> Q2: What is that second thing?

Quoth Google, when baited with what you call "that second thing":

> POLARIS Office for Good is an enterprise application and not meant
> for consumer use. This application requires that Good Dynamics servers
> are setup in your Company's ...

HTH. Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

[Jasen Betts]

On 2014-09-20, Ger Robertson <edin...@singlemalt.com> wrote:
> Chris Uppal wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 03:01:41 +0100:
>
> In the olden days, prices were marked on each package, where we had to
> bring a calculator along to devolve the price into the price per standard
> unit.
>
> For example, at Costco this week, a 56 ounce box of 72 Bagel Bites were
> simply listed as $10. Were I to calculate a "standard price", it would
> either be $10/72=14 cents per bagel bite, or (which I prefer), $10/56=18
> cents per ounce (since, as you noted, they can mess with the size of the
> bagel bite).
>
> In the USA, most grocery stores no longer mark the individual items, as
> they mark the shelf, and that placard (usually) has the price per
> standard unit (e.g., price per ounce).

they only started doing displaying price per standard unit here due to
legislation. previously it was only per retail pack.( except for stuff
sold in bulk or variable sized packs like fresh fruit and meat)

> But, even if there is no price per standard unit marked, it's trivial to
> calculate,

yeah, but you have to repeat that for each different pack as they are
all different sizes.

--
umop apisdn


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---

[Jasen Betts]

On 2014-09-20, Ger Robertson <some...@something.invalid> wrote:
> tlvp wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 15:00:56 -0400:
>
>> if you like -- it's the "invalid" part that seals the bargain here .
>
> So, if I understand, that "invalid" is some kind of *email* address?

it's a top level domain that's guaranteed unallocated, so anyone can
use subdomains without registering them, and no-one need maste effors
on email delivery problems because it's supposed to be broken.

> It doesn't have a ".com" or a ".edu", so, it looks weird to me.

you may think expiect .mobi and .museum looke wierd too but those two
(and some others) are legit,

> Of course, all it has to do is look OK to a mail and/or nntp server.
>
> Is the accepted syntax "anyt...@anything.anything_else.invalid"?

Anything that looks good before .com (etc) can go before .invalid
instead, there's full detail of what an email address is in RFC-5322
section 3.4 if you want it.

[Jasen Betts]

On 2014-09-20, Ger Robertson <some...@something.invalid> wrote:

> Gordon Levi wrote, on Sun, 21 Sep 2014 01:17:12 +1000:
>
> I would have thought, by now, that spammers didn't really believe *any*
> of the email addresses provided in nntp headers.

They aren't picky. they'll hit anything with an @ and a domain name.
I've seen spam addressed to the Message-Id header.

[Jasen Betts]

On 2014-09-20, Ger Robertson <some...@something.invalid> wrote:

> Gene E. Bloch wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 12:39:28 -0700:
>
>> I believe Android does have the concept of not displaying apps that are
>> not compatible with your device.
>
> Thanks.
>
> It's nice to entertain the idea of writing my own app, but, if I were to
> think logically about it, I can't imagine an app being better than a
> spreadsheet (which has tremendous native powers of sorting & reporting).

Anything can be better than a spreadsheet, spreadsheet is basically a
grid-oriented write-only programming language.

> I guess there could be a *business* in reporting prices at local food
> stores though, similar to what GasBuddy does. I wonder if anyone has
> tried that?
>
> The hard part, of course, is *maintaining* the data. I guess, if enough
> money came in, the business would pay people to maintain the database,
> but, it seems that some kind of *automation* or agreement with the
> management would be needed for the most efficient & timely updates to the
> prices.

write an app that converts a photo of a price ticket into price per unit
and with the help of gps data it could be automatic.

you'll have intial costs populating a database of UPCs if you can't
OCR that from the shelf label image, it'll probably need some good
servers too.

[Ken Blake]

On 21 Sep 2014 01:07:05 GMT, Jasen Betts <ja...@xnet.co.nz> wrote:


> > It doesn't have a ".com" or a ".edu", so, it looks weird to me.
>
> you may think expiect .mobi and .museum looke wierd too but those two
> (and some others) are legit,

More than just "some others." A lot!

See http://www.iana.org/domains/root/db

[Gordon Levi]

Ger Robertson <some...@something.invalid> wrote:

>Gordon Levi wrote, on Sun, 21 Sep 2014 00:00:42 +1000:
>
>> Polaris Office is free and Excel compatible so that is one way.
>
>I had not known about "Polaris Office" so, I found this in Play:
>1. Polaris Office, by Infraware, Inc.
> Create, edit, & share Word, Powerpoint, & Excel documents & view PDFs.

>2. Polaris Office for Good, by Infraware, Inc.

> Enterprise Office Appliations for Good Dynamics
>
>Two questions:
>Q1: Does Polaris Office print?

I'm not sure I understand this question. Do any Android apps print?
Anyway, Polaris Office does not have a print item in the menu. I have
the free version of Cloudprint installed so you prompted me to try it.
Pressing on the icon for the only spreadsheet on my phone gave me the
option of using Cloudprint or Polaris Office to open it. I chose
Cloudprint and it made a mess of the only spreadsheet I have on my
phone because it needed to print it over several horizontal pages. The
lack of a Polaris print preview meant that I could not (or did not
know how to) reformat the spreadsheet for more legible printing. I
have not tried reformatting the spreadsheet in Excel on my computer or
using Polaris on my computer.

>Q2: What is that second thing?

I don't know but the word "Enterprise" in any title indicates that it
is too expensive for me!

[tlvp]

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 22:43:02 +0000 (UTC), Ger Robertson wrote:

> It's nice to entertain the idea of writing my own app, but, if I were to
> think logically about it, I can't imagine an app being better than a
> spreadsheet (which has tremendous native powers of sorting & reporting).
>

> I guess there could be a *business* in reporting prices at local food
> stores though, similar to what GasBuddy does. I wonder if anyone has
> tried that?
>
> The hard part, of course, is *maintaining* the data. I guess, if enough
> money came in, the business would pay people to maintain the database,
> but, it seems that some kind of *automation* or agreement with the
> management would be needed for the most efficient & timely updates to the
> prices.
>

> I wonder if corporate management would be on board, or against the idea?

Do you really want to track the dynamic repricing all these stores engage
in for all their products? You know -- Brand A tomato sauce priced at
anywhere from 77 cents (per 26-ounce jar) through 88 cents, 97 cents, 99
cents, $1.29, $1.69, and $2.49, depending on what week in the month it is,
whether Sun-Tues or Wed-Sat, whether or not the buyer is a "PriceMaven"
club member, a "SeniorCitizen", or the holder of a special rebate slip?

All the stores around here do that, for just about all their products. Even
fresh salmon -- $5.99/lb., $6.49/lb., $8.99/lb., even $10.99/lb., up
through $4.99 per 6-ounce "portion" (over $12/lb.) :-) .

You really feature creating a date-sensitive spreadsheet design (rather
than a date-sensitive app) that tracks all that :-) ? -- Have fun!

[Rod Speed]

Ger Robertson <some...@something.invalid> wrote
> nospam wrote

>> apple menu, software update, let it do its thing.
>> there may be additional updates too.

> Most software updates break things

Nope, most software updates don’t.

> (yes, even on iOS stuff),

Hardly ever.

[Rod Speed]

"Ger Robertson" <some...@something.invalid> wrote in message
news:lvl05t$ibf$4...@news.albasani.net...
> Big_Al wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 09:08:05 -0400:
>
>> What's wrong with text?
>> You know, KISS, works most of the time. You can export excel to text.
>
> I *have* been using "InkPad" to input my current grocery lists.
> It's pure text, but it allows multiple "topics", one for each store.
>
> The problem, of course, is *finding* things, once input, since it doesn't
> have the greatest sorting ability (I don't even know if it *can* sort).
>
> Plus, anything long doesn't wrap; it just disappears off to the right
> hand edge, so, the price is often hidden.
>
> Anyway, pure text works.
> A spreadsheet is probably better (because it sorts better).
> Perhaps best would be a dedicated grocery app that did what it is
> supposed to do.

> To me, a dedicated grocery app should ...
> 1. Input as efficiently as possible (scanning would be perfect).

But doesn’t handle the situation where you are
going to do a recipe you got from somewhere
which will add what you don’t have to your list.

> 2. Sort as desired (dairy, meats, baking, produce, etc.)

Better if it can sort by the aisles in the store you are actually
using so it shows you exactly where each item is in the store.

> 3. Allow for natural-unit pricing (calculating it would be nice).

> In addition, it would be nice if the grocery app ...
> 4. Compared stores and reported which was best for an item

But needs to allow for the extra cost of going to the extra stores.

I mostly keep decent stocks of all food and just need to
replace stuff when the stocks are getting low of a particular
item and normally only buy it when its on special too.

Gets tricky with some of the offers tho. We have just had one
where if you spend more than $30 a week in a single purchase
for 4 weeks in a row, you get a credit for $50 which has to be
spent in a single purchase and that credit lasts for 4 weeks.
It would be great if the app could do that stuff for me, only
buying stuff on special too. Tricky to implement tho.

[Gene E. Bloch]

Then I win for knowing where my copy is :-)

But please do me the favor of not asking about some other books I've
been looking for.

BTW, I remembered something last night after I shut down. At the back of
K&R is an appendix giving a formal summary of the language, so I checked
the book. The actual manual one might use when starting in C is only 178
pages long.

OTOH, my first complete manual for BASIC was a single sheet of paper. It
has grown since then.

[Gene E. Bloch]

On 21 Sep 2014 01:43:14 GMT, Jasen Betts wrote:

>> It's nice to entertain the idea of writing my own app, but, if I were to
>> think logically about it, I can't imagine an app being better than a
>> spreadsheet (which has tremendous native powers of sorting & reporting).
>
> Anything can be better than a spreadsheet, spreadsheet is basically a
> grid-oriented write-only programming language.

Wish I could agree with you, but I find spreadsheets very useful.

But then I do use programs such as Excel to work with them, which helps
a lot.

[Rod Speed]

Ger Robertson <some...@something.invalid> wrote
> Gene E. Bloch wrote

>> I believe Android does have the concept of not displaying
>> apps that are not compatible with your device.

> Thanks.

> It's nice to entertain the idea of writing my own app, but, if I were to
> think logically about it, I can't imagine an app being better than a
> spreadsheet (which has tremendous native powers of sorting & reporting).

It’s a lousy way of displaying shopping prices.

> I guess there could be a *business* in reporting prices at
> local food stores though, similar to what GasBuddy does.

Yes, that would be very handy when
buying something more than trivial.

> I wonder if anyone has tried that?

Yes, some apps can do that with some stuff.

> The hard part, of course, is *maintaining* the data.

Not that hard to do that, froogle already does.

> I guess, if enough money came in, the business
> would pay people to maintain the database,

They don’t pay froogle to do that.

> but, it seems that some kind of *automation* or agreement
> with the management would be needed for the most efficient
> & timely updates to the prices.

Yes, but that automation isnt that hard to do. Its done already.

> I wonder if corporate management
> would be on board, or against the idea?

Doesn’t really matter if they like the idea or not.

There are certainly plenty who hate the idea that
consumers can compare prices so easily now.

[Rod Speed]

Ger Robertson <some...@something.invalid> wrote
> nospam wrote

>> i use all platforms, and unlike you, i understand their advantages and
>> disadvantages of each. none are best at everything. i've been using
>> android for a few years. i also use iphones and mac and windows.

> I also use all platforms, although I'm actually brand new to the MacBook
> Air which my company gave me this week. I received no training on it, so,
> it's (naturally) driving me crazy, but, I *was surprised* at how well it
> connected, in my home network earlier this morning, to my PC.

> It took *forever* to download and install the software, but it was all
> point and click for me. All I had to do was enter the IP address of the
> printer (and that was it!). It did everything else for me automatically.

> Likewise with accessing Windows shares. It just accessed them without me
> even having to say what WORKGROUP I was in, which, interestingly, even
> Windows won't do that without you telling it the workgroup (e.g., MSHOME).

That last isnt correct.

> I have no idea *which* MacBook Air it is though, as they
> all seem to look alike when I google what one I have.

[Rod Speed]

"Ger Robertson" <some...@something.invalid> wrote in message

news:lvkv3r$tva$7...@news.albasani.net...
> Mayayana wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 12:10:06 -0400:
>
>> The whole point of unit pricing is to
>> allow people to bypass sneaky marketing and packaging.
>
> I agree with the point of natural-unit pricing being a good thing.
>
> I, for one, not only deface the placards at Costco which show pricing by
> the can or bottle, but I also refuse to purchase *any* item so marked.
>
> If *everyone* did that, they'd stop it pronto.
>
> Maybe I can send a few photos to Consumer Reports, but I can never find a
> good contact of a real *human* at Consumers Union to send this
> information to.
>
>> As a former home brewer I know that Bud uses about 30% rice and Miller
>> uses a doctored extract of hops instead of real hops.
>
> Heh heh ... I have *been* on a tour of the Budweiser Brewery in New
> Jersey off the NJ Turnpike. Do you know what beer *looks* like when it's
> fermenting?

He must do given that he used to do it.

> Uugh! Huge basketball-court sized squares of
> brown bubbly frothy disgusting brewing stuff.

Nothing disgusting about it IMO.

> The "beechwood chips" are an entire
> truckload of *lumber*, the size of the
> stuff you build roof rafters out of.

Most beer isnt done like that.

> But, in the plush bar, at the end of the tour, that *fresh* beer,
> on the house, is the *best* you've ever tasted from the brand!

Much too immature for my taste.

[Ger Robertson]

Rod Speed wrote, on Mon, 22 Sep 2014 11:21:19 +1000:

> There are certainly plenty who hate the idea that consumers can compare
> prices so easily now.

I know, for me, that I always buy the cheapest gas in town, so, GasBuddy
and iExit have to have an influence, at least a little on gas prices (I
would think).

As for food prices, seems to me that it's not as obvious, if only because
you generally do a lot of food shopping at the store you're at, and, you
might not want to go to a second or third store just to get the stuff on
your list.

Nonetheless, I'm really compiling prices so that I can tell which store
is best, overall, which is a statistical answer of the aggregate.

[Ger Robertson]

Jasen Betts wrote, on Sun, 21 Sep 2014 01:43:14 +0000:

> write an app that converts a photo of a price ticket into price per unit
> and with the help of gps data it could be automatic.
>
> you'll have intial costs populating a database of UPCs if you can't OCR
> that from the shelf label image, it'll probably need some good servers
> too.

It would need pretty good OCR, but it's doable.

[Ger Robertson]

tlvp wrote, on Sun, 21 Sep 2014 16:11:45 -0400:

> Do you really want to track the dynamic repricing all these stores
> engage in for all their products?

Actually, let's not get ahead of ourselves.

I just had wanted to determine, overall, if I had bought the 40 or 50
items I generally buy at store 1, store 2, or store 3, overall, which
would have been a better deal.

In general, I would expect a store to be better than the others, in the
aggregate (of all the items, not just any one item).

So, the averaging out of the final tally irons out the inevitable
fluctuations in the prices of any one item.

At least that was my initial goal for a grocery app; but none enabled
that easily.

[Ger Robertson]

Rod Speed wrote, on Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:20:58 +1000:

> Better if it can sort by the aisles in the store you are actually using
> so it shows you exactly where each item is in the store.

That's for the paid app upgrade!
:)

[Ger Robertson]

Rod Speed wrote, on Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:20:58 +1000:

> Gets tricky with some of the offers tho. We have just had one where if
> you spend more than $30 a week in a single purchase for 4 weeks in a
> row, you get a credit for $50

I never do coupons and I never buy anything because it's on sale unless I
buy it normally, and then I'll stock up on a few extra if it's not
perishable. Other than that, I don't deal with sales or coupons.

I do get 10 cents to 30 cents off on a gallon of fuel (up to 25 gallons)
at Safeway, based on spending 100 to 300 dollars in a certain time
period, but, I already get 3% off Amex at Costco for gas (which is about
12 cents a gallon) so, it doesn't really sway me.

So, I'm not too worried about the "specials" being input into the grocery
app.

[Ger Robertson]

Gordon Levi wrote, on Mon, 22 Sep 2014 01:54:51 +1000:

> I'm not sure I understand this question.
> Do any Android apps print?

Sure.

[Ger Robertson]

Big Al wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 15:36:41 -0400:

> Yep, not sure about sorting things in a file, but my editor sorts the
> file names. Which of course only works for the major categories.
>
> I hear your pain, I'm trying to fix an issue and I don't like my
> workaround and I KNOW someone else has had the same issue, I just can't
> find him. LOL

Here is the Costco list, by the way, hand typed into a text editor on a
laptop once I had gotten home.

Notice it's in csv format, which easily loads into spreadsheets; but how
would you get this information into the Android phone?

Aluminum foil,18 inches,$0.03/sqft
Aspirin,325mg,$0.12/tablet
Bagel Bites,box,$10/56oz
Bananas,green,$0.46/lb
Bread,Hawaiian,$4.49/24oz
Bread,Pugliese,$4.99/34oz
Bread,Torta rolls x 10,$5.99/30oz
Butter,salted,$2.95/lb
Cheese,Jarlsberg wedge,$5.18/lb
Cheese,Mexican shredded,$3.33/lb
Cheese,Mozzarella Fresca,$4.66/lb
Cheese,Provolone sliced,$4.45/lb
Chicken,can,$0.147/oz
Chicken,whole,$4.99/3lb
Coffee,instant Folgers Regular,0.562/oz
Coffee,instant Nescafe Classico,0.714/oz
Dairy,Cream,heavy,$6.49/64oz
Detergent,dish palmalive,$0.067/oz
Detergent,laundry,$14.99/28lb
Flour,white,$0.28/lb
Gloves,nitrile,$0.05/ea
Honey,organic bear,$0.189/oz
Jelly,grape organic,$0.139/oz
Lettuce,Iceberg,$0.76/ea
Lettuce,Romaine Hearts,$0.50ea
Maple Syrup,organic,$13.50/l
Mozzarella,shredded,$2.76/lb
Nuts,fancy jar,$6.20/lb
OJ,not from concentrate,$2.86/59oz
Olive Oil,Extra Virgin,$6.50/l
Olive Oil,light,$3.75/l
Paper Towels,12 rolls,$0.16/sqft
Pasta,spaghetti,$0.97/lb
Peanut Butter,Skippy,$0.10/oz
Peanuts,no shell,$2.80/lb
Peanuts,with shell,$1.18/lb
Plastic wrap,12 inches,$0.004/sqft
Rice,cheap,$0.52/lb
Rice,fancy,$1.20/lb
Rice,medium,$0.70/lb
Salmon,smoked Norway,$14.66/lb
Salmon,smoked Sockeye Wild,$18.49/lb
Sweetener,Splenda sucralose,$19.99/2.65lb
Sweetener,sugar white,$0.39/lb
Sweetener,Truvia,$13.99/2lb 5oz
Toilet Paper,30 rolls,$0.01/sqft
Tomato paste,organic,$6.69/4lb 8oz
Tomato,Roma,$2/lb
Tomato stewed,cans,$6/7.25lb
Tuna,solid white can chickenofthesea,$0.230/oz
Tuna,solid white can kirkland,$0.259/oz
Vinegar,Heinz,$2.49/gal
Watermelon,large,$5/ea

[tlvp]

On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:11:49 +1000, Rod Speed quoted/wrote:

>> Most software updates break things
>
> Nope, most software updates don’t.

You do realize you're just disagreeing on the meaning of "most", right?

[Ger Robertson]

Ger Robertson wrote, on Mon, 22 Sep 2014 05:56:33 +0000:

> Here is the Costco list, by the way, hand typed into a text editor on a
> laptop once I had gotten home.
>
> Notice it's in csv format, which easily loads into spreadsheets; but how
> would you get this information into the Android phone?

I accidentally posted an earlier list, before I had organized it into
categories. Here's the list organized somewhat.

What's the best way to get this into Android and have it as functional as
possible as a grocery price comparison with other similar lists?

Bakery,Flour,white,$0.28/lb
Bakery,Rice,cheap,$0.52/lb
Bakery,Rice,fancy,$1.20/lb
Bakery,Rice,medium,$0.70/lb
Beverage,Coffee instant,Folgers Regular,$0.562/oz
Beverage,Coffee instant,Nescafe Classico,$0.714/oz
Beverage,OJ,not from concentrate,$2.86/59oz
Bread,Bagel Bites,box,$10/56oz
Bread,Hawaiian,rolls,$4.49/24oz
Bread,Pugliese,loaf,$4.99/34oz
Bread,Torta,rolls x 10,$5.99/30oz
Dairy,Butter,salted,$2.95/lb
Dairy,Cheese,Jarlsberg wedge,$5.18/lb
Dairy,Cheese,Mexican shredded,$3.33/lb
Dairy,Cheese,Mozzarella Fresca,$4.66/lb
Dairy,Cheese,Mozzarella shredded,$2.76/lb
Dairy,Cheese,Provolone sliced,$4.45/lb
Dairy,Cream,heavy,$6.49/64oz
Detergent,dish,palmolive,$0.067/oz
Detergent,laundry,kirkland,$14.99/28lb
kitchen,Aluminum foil,18 inches,$0.03/sqft
Kitchen,Gloves,nitrile,$0.05/ea
Kitchen,Paper Towels,12 rolls,$0.16/sqft
Kitchen,Plastic wrap,12 inches,$0.004/sqft
Kitchen,Toilet Paper,30 rolls,$0.01/sqft
Meat,Chicken,can,$0.147/oz
Meat,Chicken,whole,$4.99/3lb
Meat,Salmon,smoked Norway,$14.66/lb
Meat,Salmon,smoked Sockeye Wild,$18.49/lb
Meat,Tuna,solid white can chickenofthesea,$0.230/oz
Meat,Tuna,solid white can kirkland,$0.259/oz
Nuts,fancy,jar,$6.20/lb
Nuts,Peanuts,no shell,$2.80/lb
Nuts,Peanuts,with shell,$1.18/lb
Pantry,Jelly,grape organic,$0.139/oz
Pantry,Peanut Butter,Skippy,$0.10/oz
Pasta,spaghetti,fancy,$0.97/lb
Pharmacy,Aspirin,325mg,$0.12/tablet
produce,Bananas,green,$0.46/lb
Produce,Lettuce,Iceberg,$0.76/ea
Produce,Lettuce,Romaine Hearts,$0.50ea
Produce,Olive Oil,Extra Virgin,$6.50/l
Produce,Olive Oil,light,$3.75/l
Produce,Vinegar,Heinz,$2.49/gal
Produce,Watermelon,large,$5/ea
Sauce,Tomato paste,organic,$6.69/4lb 8oz
Sauce,Tomato,Roma,$2/lb
Sauce,Tomato stewed,cans,$6/7.25lb
Sweetener,Honey,organic bear,$0.189/oz
Sweetener,Maple Syrup,organic,$13.50/l
Sweetener,Splenda,sucralose,$19.99/2.65lb
Sweetener,sugar,white,$0.39/lb
Sweetener,Truvia,bag,$13.99/2lb 5oz

[tlvp]

On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 04:02:57 +0000 (UTC), Ger Robertson wrote:

> Nonetheless, I'm really compiling prices so that I can tell which store
> is best, overall, which is a statistical answer of the aggregate.

I think you need first to devise an acceptable definition of "overall".

In my neck of the woods, store X takes top honors one week, while store Y
does the next ... all because their dynamic pricing routines vary markedly
one from the other. And then there are stores W and Z, one of which will
match any advertised competitor's price for items it too stocks, while the
other sometimes has massively low-balled (loss-leader) specials.

You often do better by getting store W to honor its price-match pledge,
using ads from stores X, Y, and Z. Other times, you do better by
strategically combining select purchases from stores W, X, Y, and Z.

My last take, then: Good luck getting all those rules and decision
structures into any app or spreadsheet :-) . Cheers, -- tlvp

[Ger Robertson]

tlvp wrote, on Mon, 22 Sep 2014 02:15:01 -0400:

> I think you need first to devise an acceptable definition of "overall".

It's trivially simple to define, but the keyword "acceptable" means that
it needs to be accepted by "me".

For me, the word "overall" simply means I purchase a hypothetical "unit
amount" of each of the 50 or so items, and the total is the total cost.

That total can *easily* be compared to another store. Trivially.

As for getting the list onto Android, I just slid it over USB to:
/Phone/documents/costco.csv
/Phone/Download/costco.csv
/Phone/
/Phone/
/Phone/
/Phone/

[Ger Robertson]

Ger Robertson wrote, on Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:27:22 +0000:

> As for getting the list onto Android, I just slid it over USB to:
> /Phone/documents/costco.csv
> /Phone/Download/costco.csv

Hit the carriage return and some special key and it sent accidentally.
(Note to self to change whatever that keyboard sequence was!)

I slid the costco.csv file to the following locations:
/Phone/costco.csv
/Phone/files/costco.csv
/Phone/documents/costco.csv
/Phone/Download/costco.csv
/Phone/KingsoftOffice/file/download/costco.csv

The hope is that the grocery apps can somehow use the csv files.

[Rod Speed]

Ger Robertson <some...@something.invalid> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

>> There are certainly plenty who hate the idea that
>> consumers can compare prices so easily now.

> I know, for me, that I always buy the cheapest gas in town,

Yeah, me too.

> so, GasBuddy and iExit have to have an influence,
> at least a little on gas prices (I would think).

Yeah, they must do to some extent.

> As for food prices, seems to me that it's not
> as obvious, if only because you generally do
> a lot of food shopping at the store you're at,

I generally don’t. Like I said, I keep good stocks
of what I use and only buy when the stock levels
get low with a particular item and so generally
only buy specials, and get those from the store
web sites/catalogs and so go to the store that
has a special on what I am replacing for stock.

And almost all of the stores I use much are
very close together, so its no big deal to use
more than one on a particular shopping run.

> and, you might not want to go to a second
> or third store just to get the stuff on your list.

I wouldn’t unless there is a decent saving involved
but because I hardly ever buy stuff that isnt on
special, and don’t often have to have something,
there generally is a decent saving involved.

> Nonetheless, I'm really compiling prices so that I can tell which
> store is best, overall, which is a statistical answer of the aggregate.

I haven't found that to be generally true,
but then I normally only buy specials.

[Rod Speed]

Ger Robertson <some...@something.invalid> wrote
> tlvp wrote

>> Do you really want to track the dynamic repricing
>> all these stores engage in for all their products?

> Actually, let's not get ahead of ourselves.

> I just had wanted to determine, overall, if I had bought
> the 40 or 50 items I generally buy at store 1, store 2, or
> store 3, overall, which would have been a better deal.

> In general, I would expect a store to be better than the others,
> in the aggregate (of all the items, not just any one item).

I haven't found that to be true with my stores, but we
don’t have an Aldi in my town. It would be true for them.

> So, the averaging out of the final tally irons out the
> inevitable fluctuations in the prices of any one item.

> At least that was my initial goal for a grocery
> app; but none enabled that easily.

It would likely be feasible to do it using the
online shopping for the stores that have that.

[Rod Speed]

Ger Robertson <some...@something.invalid> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

>> Better if it can sort by the aisles in the store you are actually
>> using so it shows you exactly where each item is in the store.

> That's for the paid app upgrade!
> :)

One of our supermarket chain's apps does do that for you
and allows you to do your shopping list by scanning the
barcodes as you use stuff up at home and select other
stuff you want to buy using the app, all for free.