Gnu I/F (Self-Destructive?)
Jonathan E. Cook
There was some concensus on comp.editors a while back that the
control-key interface in emacs is very destructive in terms of
CTS. Mentioned in that discussion was the fact that you have to
hold the CTRL key down, and I think its compounded by the fact
that its pervasive (i.e. you use it alot), and there's only one
CTRL key (Shift, on the other hand, isn't used as much and
distributes the work over both hands). Key placement also seems to
aggravate the CTRL key use.
From personal experience, After being in industry for about 2 yrs,
I came back to school, started using emacs again, and within
2 months my left hand, near the last two fingers, was getting
sore.
And of course, just ask Richard Stallman - he can't type anymore.
So, I've since remapped my emacs bindings to avoid the CTRL
key, but, as the subject implies, WHAT ABOUT ALL THE OTHER
GNU TOOLS? If this is a problem, then its pervasive throughout
all gnu tools that have some command interface.
I just spent all night using gnuplot to complete some work, and
today my left hand, sure 'nuff, is sore again.
If this is a real problem, which I feel it is, should there
be a motion to define a new Gnu interface, and retool various
Gnu software, like gnuplot, gdb, etc? The software is great,
it'd be a shame if its contributing more than its share to
carpal-tunnel syndrome, or repetetive-motion stresses.
Jon.
Brian Downing
For what it's worth. I just thought I'd mention that when I use an
IBM PC type clone and a terminal emulator (such as kermit) then I
have two Control keys and two Alt keys. I still only use the left
control though. For some reason the right control is difficult for me
to get used to after learning to use emacs on a Digital VT320.
--
Brian...
brian downing@->fordham university, nyc ny
br...@dsm.fordham.edu bdow...@mary.fordham.edu
M. Guyott
>There was some concensus on comp.editors a while back that the
>control-key interface in emacs is very destructive in terms of
>CTS. Mentioned in that discussion was the fact that you have to
>hold the CTRL key down, and I think its compounded by the fact
>that its pervasive (i.e. you use it alot), and there's only one
>CTRL key (Shift, on the other hand, isn't used as much and
>distributes the work over both hands). Key placement also seems to
>aggravate the CTRL key use.
My PC keyboard, on which I constantly use Micro EMACS, has two CTRL keys, one
on either end of the keyboard. Each CTRL key is located immediately below
the SHIFT key on either end of the key board. If people are having problems
with the CTRL key then they will probably have the same problem with the
SHIFT key (if it were used as much as the CTRL key). In fact, is the problem
less the location of the CTRL key and more the fact that one key is being
used excessively? Does remapping the CTRL key solve the problem or will the
problem continue to recur because this new key is now being used excessively?
On another note, I have used Micro EMACS extensively for the over five years
now and have never had any keyboard related problems. I am a full time
software engineer doing development for the MS Windows environment so I do
a lot of editing. Now the mouse, that's another can of worms! I can no
longer use the mouse with my right hand. I never had a problem until about
a year ago when my company bought some cheap mice. The tactile feeback
"click" of the mouse was so sharp that it began to cause pain in my finger
joints. Now I have a MS mouse and use my left hand with no problems. I used
to use a Logitech mouse for many years and I had no problems with this mouse
either. The moral of the story: Beware of cheap mice!
Marc
----
Two of the worst things we teach our children are that a knowledge of science
is nice but not necessary, and a knowledge of sex is necessary but not nice.
Marc Guyott Constellation Software, Inc. (508) 620-2800
Framingham, Mass. 01701 USA Ext. 3135
mgu...@primerd.prime.com ...!{uunet, decwrl}!primerd.prime.com!mguyott
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Eric Promislow
> ESC-key combinations can cause CTS...]
>
>If this is a real problem, which I feel it is, should there
>be a motion to define a new Gnu interface, and retool various
>Gnu software, like gnuplot, gdb, etc? The software is great,
>it'd be a shame if its contributing more than its share to
>carpal-tunnel syndrome, or repetetive-motion stresses.
>
>Jon.
>
A quick solution is to always use the CTRL-key like a SHIFT key,
where you make sure that both hands are involved in the key
combination. On my SUN workstation, that means that I always have to
use my left hand to type CTRL commands, even CTRL-A. Sure it slows me
down, but at the end of the day my hands don't hurt.
What would be much better is an optional foot-pedal interface.
Something like the left pedal to emulate the CTRL-key, the right pedal
for the META-key. I believe this was discussed in this news group a
year ago or so, so I won't bother going into the merits of it. Are
there any experimental foot-pedal interfaces people are aware of?
--
-- Eric Promisl...@xgml.com--Exoterica Corporation, Ottawa, Ontario
Craig A. Finseth
...
|> There was some concensus on comp.editors a while back that the
|> control-key interface in emacs is very destructive in terms of
|> CTS. Mentioned in that discussion was the fact that you have to
I have seen reports that just about any repetitive action can cause
CTS. I see no reason to assume that the tendons and muscles in your
fingers/hands are designed to detect the use of Emacs key bindings and
only cause CTS when those bindings are used (:-). It would surprize
me very much if there were _any_ set of bindings that did not
contribute to CTS.
...
|> And of course, just ask Richard Stallman - he can't type anymore.
...
Since there is no reason to assume that he actually reads this news
group, we should not be assuming that silence means consent. Since
this is a rumor about a _particular individual_, it might only be
polite to not propogate it unless you know for a _fact_ that it is
true (and maybe not even then). ("Heard from a friend" doesn't count
as a fact. Heard from RMS, of course, would count.)
I have used Emacs key bindings daily for 14 years. This usage is
_very heavy_, probably within a small delta of that of RMS. The only
time that I have had problems is when using cruddy keyboards. (Most
keyboards are cruddy, IMHO.) (I can tell a cruddy keyboard when my
fingers get sore from typing a few command lines. I usually don't
even get into the editor.)
Craig A. Finseth [CAF13] Craig.A....@umn.edu
Networking Services f...@unet.umn.edu
Computer and Information Services +1 612 624 3375 desk
University of Minnesota +1 612 625 0006 problems
130 Lind Hall, 207 Church St SE +1 612 626 1002 fax
Minneapolis MN 55455-0134, USA member, LPF
Technically Sweet
> A quick solution is to always use the CTRL-key like a SHIFT key,
>where you make sure that both hands are involved in the key
>combination. On my SUN workstation, that means that I always have to
>use my left hand to type CTRL commands, even CTRL-A. Sure it slows me
>down, but at the end of the day my hands don't hurt.
Backwards! Multi-key combinations ON ONE HAND are extra-super-destructo.
You want to do like they taught you in typing class: shift with one
hand, key with the other. Do CTRL the same way. I want a keyboard
mapping option that enforces this.
--
Lance Norskog
Data is not information is not knowledge is not wisdom.
Rick Innis
f...@unet.umn.edu (Craig A. Finseth) writes:
>In article <1992Dec15....@colorado.edu>,
>jc...@mumble.cs.Colorado.EDU (Jonathan E. Cook) writes:
>
>|> And of course, just ask Richard Stallman - he can't type anymore.
>
>group, we should not be assuming that silence means consent.
but generally he has to rely on someone else to type for him. Whether this
can be linked to his heavy use of emacs in the past is unknown. (You can
refer to an article on RMS in the Boston Sunday Globe from around November
1990 - either the 11th or 18, I think - for more on rms generally and a
description of his hand condition in particular. Seems it has the medical
profession baffled.)
>I have used Emacs key bindings daily for 14 years.
Could be that some people are more susceptible to CTS than others. Anyone
know if there's been any studies to investigate that?
Just to illustrate the point, I used jove to type this and my hands are sore
already. Fortunately I'm about to begin a two-week break....
--Rick.
--
Rick Innis
SoftQuad Inc. "Have you seen the secret of the Universe?" said
ri...@sq.com Zebedee, arriving. "I know I left it here somewhere."
+1 (416) 239 4801
Eric Promislow
>e...@xgml.com (Eric Promislow) writes:
>
>> A quick solution is to always use the CTRL-key like a SHIFT key,
>>where you make sure that both hands are involved in the key
>>combination. On my SUN workstation, that means that I always have to
>>use my left hand to type CTRL commands, even CTRL-A. Sure it slows me
>>down, but at the end of the day my hands don't hurt.
>
>Backwards! Multi-key combinations ON ONE HAND are extra-super-destructo.
>You want to do like they taught you in typing class: shift with one
>hand, key with the other. Do CTRL the same way. I want a keyboard
>mapping option that enforces this.
>
You're right, I did get it backwards. I meant my right hand.
Jason Andrew Barshay
This is going to sound a little strange and it certainly goes against
any standards but how about a CTRL pedal? I mean why make your hands be
the only input medium?
Just a whacky idea.
Jason
Daniel P. B. Smith
noticed this independently. Anything that requires a stretch of the
fingers that seems even the slightest bit "clumsy" or "awkward" is,
IMHO, very dangerous if sustained for long periods of time.
Since keyboards vary ENORMOUSLY in the number and placement of CTRL keys,
the degree of the problem could vary from keyboard to keyboard.
Schumann crippled his hands to the point of being unable to play the
piano by performing exercises he divised himself whose purpose was to
increase the independence of movement of his fingers.
I _will_ say that it makes a big difference just how much force and
travel are required on the keys you press with the pinkies. The HP2648A,
otherwise an admirable terminal, became a torture device for me simply
because the keys were heavily sprung to a a degree which was perfectly
acceptable for centrally placed keys and inner fingers, but far too great
for keys pressed with an outward-extended pinkie.
--
Daniel P. B. Smith
dpbs...@world.std.com