This is great to see. Along side efforts like Fogus' REPL love - http://readevalprintlove.fogus.me/ - we're well on our way fixing the documentation problems in our community.
I could definitely see something like this migrating into docs.clojure.org once it reached maturity.
Huge thanks to everyone involved in these efforts and responding the call to action.
Also, thanks to Andy Fingerhut - who patched up the docs on contributing and helped to improve the ticket triage process.
And thanks to Stu Halloway for taking some time off list to sort out some issues and help push some things forward.
Paul // ohpauleez
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Wouldn't it be better for readevalprintlove and clojuredocs to join forces from the beginning?
Sorry, I couldn't resist the temptation to remind you of this: http://www.ted.com/talks/derek_sivers_keep_your_goals_to_yourself.html
You say that as if it's a bad thing. I'm of the opinion that these
kinds of efforts should have a low barrier to contribution and be fun.
My apologies, I did not imply that it is a bad thing, only that it is not entirely clear what direction the project2012/10/5 Michael Fogus <mef...@gmail.com>You say that as if it's a bad thing. I'm of the opinion that these
kinds of efforts should have a low barrier to contribution and be fun.will take. While for CDS it is pretty clear (at least to people who have started it).While we are at this fun stuff, can we also make the CA submission process fun?
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There are pretty specific plans about the guides and moving clojuredocs.org forwardto 1.4 and (hopefully, at some point) multi-version support.
Michael, are these specific plans described anywhere that we could read? Or would you be able to describe them briefly?Curious to know what is planned there.
I once noticed that a Clojure fn didn't have a type hint on a return
value. Adding ^String made a substantial performance difference. Not
knowing the process, I forked, and did a pull request. I got this
response:
"Clojure projects cannot accept pull requests so all issues need to be
logged in the appropriate JIRA project and patches can be accepted
from people who have a signed Contributor's Agreement on file:
http://clojure.org/contributing
http://clojure.org/patches"
Which is informative and correct, but, do you really think I'm going
to go through that trouble? If you said yes, you're wrong.
I do not agree at all with you. Any piece of software that gets used widely
needs to be maintained with some formal process otherwise there's no way
to insure consistency of future releases. It gets worse as you increase
the # of people that can modify code.
Tickets may seem to you as overhead but it's a decent way to track issues and
fixes according to release plans.
Looking at a bunch of commits in git is limited compared to dedicated
ticket logging solutions like Jira. Providing patches attached to the ticket links
the ticket to the code in git is much more usable.
Refusing pull requests is a way to force issues to be logged in Jira.
The main entrance gate is in Jira, not the other way around.
Clojure is not the only open source projects driven by a ticket reporting
system.
This may look as overhead to you but it is still lighter than similar
processes in many software businesses.
You can report the kind of problems you highlighted on the mailing list
so at least others can take ownership of the issue if you do not feel
inclined to post it in Jira.
The validity of a scanned signature or electronic keys is subject to interpretation
and assessment on a per case basis especially in civil contracts by the diverse
legal systems on Earth.
It's not the Clojure community that is behind, it's the legal systems of many countries
that did not follow the pace of technology. Some will not recognize scanned signatures
at all.
On the other hand, original hand written signatures are recognized almost every where.
As much as you complain about the paper CA, you should complain about
the legal systems of these countries that do not follow US and western Europe
attempts to recognize technology changes and adapt to it.
You analyze the issue by the wrong end
It's not a technology issue, it's a legal one.
You could have the best electronic authentication scheme, if it's not
recognized by a country's legal system, it's useless in court in this country.
If claims rights on contributions not backed by a CA in a valid form as defined in this
country, it's a lost case.
Big organizations have the tools and budgets to fight in various legal systems
out there. Not small open source projects or projects without big sponsors.
I understand and approve the requirement of the original hand written signature in
this context. That's a real life issue that cannot be dealt with by technology alone.
If a national mail system is not able to get reliably an envelope to the US
within 4/5 weeks, I would be very concerned about the state of their legal system.
2012/10/7 Softaddicts <lprefo...@softaddicts.ca>The validity of a scanned signature or electronic keys is subject to interpretation
and assessment on a per case basis especially in civil contracts by the diverse
legal systems on Earth.
It's not the Clojure community that is behind, it's the legal systems of many countries
that did not follow the pace of technology. Some will not recognize scanned signatures
at all.
On the other hand, original hand written signatures are recognized almost every where.
A reminder: scans work for Oracle and ASF. Oracle probably has x100 as many lawyers asClojure/core, lawyers several times as experienced and about x10,000 times as much experience with this stuff as a company. And it works for them.
While on this topic, is it possible for someone with admin privileges
to disable the "Issues" tabs in the contrib projects? There is a
consistent drip of people sending pull requests or opening bugs which
have to be redirected to JIRA. All of the contrib projects now point
to JIRA in the README for both these things.
2012/10/5 Bronsa <brob...@gmail.com>Wouldn't it be better for readevalprintlove and clojuredocs to join forces from the beginning?
It's not clear what readevalprintlove wants to be. clojuredocs has been discussed for a while by some people who careabout Clojure documentation. There are pretty specific plans about the guides and moving clojuredocs.org forwardto 1.4 and (hopefully, at some point) multi-version support. In part the guides portion of clojuredocs (the organization)will follow the clojurewerkz.org projects model which is known to work well and even produced some toolswe can easily reuse and adapt.
readevalprintlove looks like a fancy playground so far.
There are multiple aspects to good documentation, see http://jacobian.org/writing/great-documentation/
And then there is the API reference part. The goal is to rewrite clojuredocs.org source parser to produceJSON and migrate DB schema to support multiple versions. Ideally, clojuredocs.org will be Clojure end to end.But this will take a while and the reference part is not nearly as bad as it is with the guides and tutorials.
*Whose* goal is it to make those changes to clojuredocs.org?Someone that is willing and able to write the code, has the time to do it, and is authorized to make changes to the clojuredocs.org site?I ask not because I expect anyone to make these changes, but because you sound like you might know the answer, i.e. maybe you have been in communication with those people.
If anybody wants to join people behind CDS, #clojuredocs on freenode.