Effect of sweating on TA

[Jeffrey Lewis]

Is there any reason to believe that the total acidity of the must could be affected by sweating the apples?

Has anyone taken before/after measurements? Thanks for any insight!

Jeff Lewis

[Andrew Lea]

Ripe apples lose malic acid by respiration to CO2 in storage. The extent of this depends on apple type and storage conditions but may be as much as 50% acid loss over a period of several months. So yes this is quite normal. Some people do this quite deliberately to reduce the acid of high acid apples e.g. Bramley before cidermaking.

Andrew

Wittenham Hill Cider Portal
www.cider.org.uk

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[Jeffrey Lewis]

Many thanks Andrew. I searched throungh your Wittenham hill website ( and this groups archived answers) but didn't find what I was looking for.

The only source of tannins I can find are malus sylvestris crabs that are both bitter and have a very high TA. Following your response I will put them in storage for a few months before pressing to try to reduce the acidity.

Many thanks!

Jeff Lewis in northern Sweden

[Jeffrey Lewis]

One detail: respiration TO carbon dioxide or respiration WITH carbon dioxide? If Istored the crabs in a CO2-rich environment would it speed or hinder the process?

Jeff

[Handmade Cider]

Jeff have you tested the T.A. of your crabs? I have found they come in between 1.2ppt and 2ppt malic so they will still need blending even after storage.

Denis

Denis France   www.handmadecider.co.uk   07590 264804  Company. No. 07241330

White Label – Champion Farmhouse Cider, Bath & West Show 2015.

Spring Surprise - Cider of the Festival Chippenham Camra Beer Festival 2014 - 2016

On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 4:12 AM, Jeffrey Lewis <jeff.k...@gmail.com> wrote:

One detail: respiration TO carbon dioxide or respiration WITH carbon dioxide?  If Istored the crabs in a CO2-rich environment would it speed or hinder the process?

Jeff

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[Jeffrey Lewis]

Hi Denis

I think that your measurements equate to 12-20 g/L malic? Mine are around 13 g/L. I plan on using the crabs in a blend with some domestica varieties, but even those have a TA around 8 g/L. So I will try malo lactic fermentation once the blend is finished primary fermentation. But every trick to lower the TA will help!

Jeff

[Andrew Lea]

Aerobic respiration TO carbon dioxide. If you limit oxygen or increase CO2 you will inhibit the respiratory acid loss I think. That is the basis of controlled atmosphere storage, which you do not want. You want traditional barn storage.

I don't know any data that relates to M sylvestris as opposed to M domestica but I would assume it to be similar. However, as others have pointed out, even if there is some loss of malate you are still starting from a very high base as far as cider is concerned. So you may still have to reduce the acid by other means or blend it off.

Andrew

Wittenham Hill Cider Portal
www.cider.org.uk

> On 19 Aug 2017, at 09:12, Jeffrey Lewis <jeff.k...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> One detail: respiration TO carbon dioxide or respiration WITH carbon dioxide? If Istored the crabs in a CO2-rich environment would it speed or hinder the process?
>
> Jeff
>