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Op 08-10-10 18:28, Jim Isaacs schreef:
> This 'dispute' has been going on for over 20+ years, and has gone
> basically nowhere.
I totally agree, on the IRC channel we had a native Cherokee guy this
summer. He was lost, but I invited him over in our channel to discuss
some stuff. He was basically debunking all the 'anti-logo' stuff we have
heard before. And I was quite suprised some people are actually
realistic and not going fundamental on everything.
Personally I wouldn't be offended if there was a firewall called
HansBrinker[1] with a guy in Wooden Shoes putting his finger in a wall.
Stefan
[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Brinker,_or_The_Silver_Skates>
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-- Üdvözlettel Donka Péter
Enough of this offtopic spam. You cant do better things but flood a technical mailing list this foolish thing? Man.. this is awful!
2010.10.08. 19:39 keltezéssel, Zachary Krebs írta:
Its not destructive to say that the branding of a particular GOOD product is culturally insensitive. If all you care about is the code, and how the product works, then why is this such a big issue that can not be reflected on? Instead of silencing the issue, we should review it and see if there is anything we can do to make a win-win. Its easy to move on and ignore such things, but there is now a pattern of web-server products using this kind of consciousness. Its constructive to point out that perhaps you, and perhaps the people involved in the project have not fully considered the implications of their actions. Or rather, you do not choose to look at them because you do not value the perspective that it could be considered offensive to someone. Being sensitive to how other people think/feel means forgoing your own logical ability for a moment, and understanding their place. Obviously the product does not make any reference to the cultural heritage of the Cherokee people. Then, logically, there is no need to represent the people by using their name or a caricature of their people? If you ignore this logic, then there might be a flaw in the whole concept of using "logic" to streamroll through these issues.
Sincerely,
Zachary Krebs
Voice:(541) 708-1163
Skype: ZacharyKrebs
On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 10:28 AM, Max Countryman <ma...@me.com <mailto:ma...@me.com>> wrote:
I would strongly suggest you concentrate your efforts on
constructive rather than destructive activities.
Had the Cherokee Webserver Project made claims about the cultural
identity of the Cherokee People I think you would have some ground
to stand on. But they don't, never have, and most likely never
will. You're trying to create an issue where there isn't one,
choosing to take offense to something in illogical way by using
logical fallacies and misleading rationalizations.
Finally you want to appeal to the community to experience how you
feel, to consider your emotional response. I'm sorry to say: only
you can make the choice to react to something, you have only
yourself to hold accountable, no one else.
On Oct 8, 2010, at 1:17 PM, Zachary Krebs wrote:
I can see that there is very little receptivity around this
topic. That is fine. I would suggest that instead of using your
brain like a hammer to approach every issue, consider how this
might/ feel /to someone. As we have also learned, the mind is not
the only source of intelligence. Looking at things with open
perceptive lenses, we can see faults and correct them, without
defending our actions. Its easy to twist logic to support
something, but its harder to understand and trust others.
Sincerely,
Zachary Krebs
Voice:(541) 708-1163
Skype: ZacharyKrebs
On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Max Countryman <ma...@me.com
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++ for Ivan mail...
Pozdrawiam
Jędrzej Nowak
Btw. The new OpenSolaris fork is called OpenIndiana => here you have
their mailing lists:
http://openindiana.org/getting-involved/mailing-list/
Greetings,
Jędrzej Nowak
Greetings,
Jędrzej Nowak
Now if we are just feeding the troll, please Iván, return the lands to Spain after you recover them from them :P
Me aka Spanish imperialist hahaha
;)
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While I do agree that the Hiawatha Webserver's logo _does_ show a
seemingly dumb and very objectionable logo, that cannot be said about
Cherokee's. Nothing in Cherokee's logo seems objectionable to me, or
to any other person who has spoken about it as far as I can tell. At
most, I would understand if you (are you a Cherokee or member of an
originary group?) tightly associate the red, white and blue colors (as
in the US flag) with bloodshed and destruction.
The web servers are not named after indigenous cultures, as you say,
"for no reason" - There is a cultural reason in our geeky collective
minds, that is, doing a similar work to the one that heavily
popularized Apache, which is a word game for "a patchy webserver". If
you deem hacker culture as silly/stupid... I will understand it, as
many people do. But we have the right of being silly and stupid, while
making no offence to any other culture.