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Would You Vote For A Jew Because He's A Jew?

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Tracey-Levin

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Aug 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/20/00
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We know that at least in the past, many minorities would vote for the
minority because he was one of them. The idea here is that if he has x
skin color, the candidate supports that values of that culture/race.
So, the question has to be asked of people who do not have the skin
color of a minority group: Would you vote for a Jew simply because he's
a Jew?


As a person of Jewish ancestry, I would never cast my vote for any man
or woman simply because we share a common ancestry! "So what", as my
kids would say!

Yet, there are so many who have voiced support of the Democratic VP
because of his religious choice, and ancestry. All of this is amazing
when you consider that the media would immediately attack any well
known, outspoken Christian picked for that position.

In November, using the same mindset as some blacks and browns, a large
number of Jews will go to the polls to cast their vote for the party
that has a Jew running as VP. Most Jews vote democrat, but some on the
verge of running away from the corruption in Clinton's party will be
called back out of a feeling of obligation that they must support and
promote a fellow Jew--Proving once again that many simply cannot see
anything more than a persons race.


Tracey

Albert Nurick

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Aug 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/20/00
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Tracey-Levin <trac...@hotbot.com> wrote in message
news:39A02314...@hotbot.com...

> In November, using the same mindset as some blacks and browns, a large
> number of Jews will go to the polls to cast their vote for the party
> that has a Jew running as VP. Most Jews vote democrat, but some on the
> verge of running away from the corruption in Clinton's party will be
> called back out of a feeling of obligation that they must support and
> promote a fellow Jew--Proving once again that many simply cannot see
> anything more than a persons race.

Judaism is a religion, not a race. There are Jews of all races,
Tracey. If you were actually raised Jewish as you claim, you'd
know this.

Of course, since you're neither a lawyer or female, I guess that's
par for the course. How's the hunt for hairy, busty Jewish women
coming?

--
Albert Nurick
alb...@nurick.com


Ms. Editor

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Aug 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/20/00
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In article <39A02314...@hotbot.com>, Tracey-Levin <trac...@hotbot.com> wrote:
> Would you vote for a Jew simply because he's a Jew?

I'd be inclined to vote for a practicing Jew (one who has a day-to-day
relationship with God) over any professing Christian who goes through the
motions but does not have a heart-felt devotion and does not put God first.
In short, I don't care about the religion, as long as God runs the person who
runs the country.

And I am voting Gore/Lieberman because, among many other reasons, I DON'T want
multi-multi-millionnaires in charge of a country that's mainly middle and
lower class. The old "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" republican dogma is
old and shows their insensitivity to the realities of life in America.
The democratic ticket just seems like "real people" to me.

in Arlington


Jeffrey E. Salzberg

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Aug 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/20/00
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In article <39A02314...@hotbot.com>,
Tracey-Levin <trac...@hotbot.com> wrote:

>Would you vote for a Jew simply because he's
> a Jew?

Absolutely not. Unlike you, David, I don't base my opinions of people
on their ethnic origins.

> As a person of Jewish ancestry,

David, you're a liar. No one believes that; why do you keep repeating
it.

>"So what", as my
> kids would say!

Not many 14-year-olds have kids old enough to talk.


> Yet, there are so many who have voiced support of the Democratic VP
> because of his religious choice, and ancestry.

Please cite one.

Hint: you won't.

Hint #2: David, you're an idiot.

--
-------------
Jeffrey E. Salzberg, Lighting Designer
Portfolio: http://www.suncoast.quik.com/salzberg
(Now featuring "This Day in Arts History")

Currently in Sarasota, FL, where any
place worth driving to is worth driving
to ve-e-e-e-ry slowly.


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Che'Gu Maru

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Aug 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/20/00
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Tracey-Levin wrote:

> We know that at least in the past, many minorities would vote for the
> minority because he was one of them. The idea here is that if he has x
> skin color, the candidate supports that values of that culture/race.
> So, the question has to be asked of people who do not have the skin

> color of a minority group: Would you vote for a Jew simply because he's
> a Jew?
>


> As a person of Jewish ancestry, I would never cast my vote for any man

> or woman simply because we share a common ancestry! "So what", as my
> kids would say!
>


> Yet, there are so many who have voiced support of the Democratic VP

> because of his religious choice, and ancestry. All of this is amazing
> when you consider that the media would immediately attack any well
> known, outspoken Christian picked for that position.
>

> In November, using the same mindset as some blacks and browns, a large
> number of Jews will go to the polls to cast their vote for the party
> that has a Jew running as VP. Most Jews vote democrat, but some on the
> verge of running away from the corruption in Clinton's party will be
> called back out of a feeling of obligation that they must support and
> promote a fellow Jew--Proving once again that many simply cannot see
> anything more than a persons race.
>

> Tracey

Tracey, while Americans come from many and varied ethnic groups, they all
come from one race, the human race.

The concept of race as applied to human beings (and meaning differences of
intellect, behavioral traits, and even morality correlated to physical
differences) has been proven to be a pseudo-concept worthy only of the
dustbin of history. It belongs in the trash along with the concentric
spheres of heaven, the flat earth, and the "knowledge" that illness is a
result of sin.

Anyone who votes for someone simply because that candidate shares the same
skin tone, religion, or ethnic ancestry isn't behaving as a responsible
voter. But, then, most voters don't behave responsibly, basing their
choice on such things as, "I like him better," or "He's from Texas" or
even, "I always vote for the (fill-in-blank) party."

Until you can refrain from damning any candidate who is not a Republican
and extolling the virtue of any who is, you don't have much grounds to
criticize the ways in which others decide upon whom to vote. After all,
what is the difference between blindly voting for someone who is a Jew and
someone who is a Republican?

Blindness is blindness ....


Bruce Darling

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Aug 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/20/00
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"Ms. Editor" <nospam...@airmail.net> wrote in message

>In short, I don't care about the religion, as long as God runs the person
who
> runs the country.

And Who/what guides Al Gore?


>
> And I am voting Gore/Lieberman because, among many other reasons, I DON'T
want
> multi-multi-millionnaires in charge of a country that's mainly middle and
> lower class. The old "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" republican
dogma is
> old and shows their insensitivity to the realities of life in America.
> The democratic ticket just seems like "real people" to me.

Are you referring to that overdose of "Everyman" Hollywood glitz and glamor
that set the tone for the Demoractic Convention? Yes, the Republicans have
their fat cats ... just as the Democrats have theirs.

Tracey-Levin

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Aug 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/20/00
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Oh my, do I have explain everything to you? You don't even understand a
pinto bean joke. Forget it, Alberto. Don't even worry about what I said.

Tracey


Albert Nurick wrote:

> Tracey-Levin <trac...@hotbot.com> wrote in message
> news:39A02314...@hotbot.com...

> > In November, using the same mindset as some blacks and browns, a large
> > number of Jews will go to the polls to cast their vote for the party
> > that has a Jew running as VP. Most Jews vote democrat, but some on the
> > verge of running away from the corruption in Clinton's party will be
> > called back out of a feeling of obligation that they must support and
> > promote a fellow Jew--Proving once again that many simply cannot see
> > anything more than a persons race.
>

Tracey-Levin

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Aug 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/20/00
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What president passed the largest tax increase in the history of America?

What party was in control of both the Executive branch and Congress when this was voted
into law?

Would such a tax increase indicate a lack of concern for the middle and lower classes?

After stating that he knew he raised taxes too much while at a meeting in Houston, he
consistently refused to cut taxes to help the middle and lower classes.

Would this indicate a lack of concern for the middle and lower classes?

This president also signed into law a bill limiting the number of years to five in which
a person could collect welfare in a lifetime. The law stands today.

Would this indicate a lack of concern for the middle and lower classes?

Tracey - a fool is born every minute and the DNC counts on it.


"Ms. Editor" wrote:

> In article <39A02314...@hotbot.com>, Tracey-Levin <trac...@hotbot.com> wrote:

> > Would you vote for a Jew simply because he's a Jew?
>

> I'd be inclined to vote for a practicing Jew (one who has a day-to-day
> relationship with God) over any professing Christian who goes through the
> motions but does not have a heart-felt devotion and does not put God first.

> In short, I don't care about the religion, as long as God runs the person who
> runs the country.
>

> And I am voting Gore/Lieberman because, among many other reasons, I DON'T want
> multi-multi-millionnaires in charge of a country that's mainly middle and
> lower class. The old "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" republican dogma is
> old and shows their insensitivity to the realities of life in America.
> The democratic ticket just seems like "real people" to me.
>

> in Arlington


Tracey-Levin

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Aug 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/20/00
to
Im sorry that you don't understand my statements and questions regarding
candidates for office. Any candidate may be a decent person in his daily
life, but if he supports socialism, communism, globalism, or big government
policies, he is a danger to liberty in America, and is not worthy of being a
dog catcher, much less a VP or President.

The coming anti-christ, who will rule the world, will not take-over with
force, but with a personality of broad appeal. He will be perceived by the
masses as being a most wonderful, caring leader with incredible wit, and
abilities. He will be the most profound orator, and able to bring peace where
peace has not existed. Simply, the world will fall in love with him. He will
be the devil incarnate, however, and if you refuse to take his mark, you will
not be able to buy or sell. And, you will be killed if caught for being a
rebel against this great leader. Jonestown on a global level.

Personal appeal has nothing to do with being righteous. Clinton is god to
some, but to those with a brain, he is vile, and a great deceiver.

The future looks bright, but only to those who know the "Truth".


Tracey

Che'Gu Maru wrote:

> Tracey-Levin wrote:
>
> > We know that at least in the past, many minorities would vote for the
> > minority because he was one of them. The idea here is that if he has x
> > skin color, the candidate supports that values of that culture/race.
> > So, the question has to be asked of people who do not have the skin

> > color of a minority group: Would you vote for a Jew simply because he's
> > a Jew?
> >


> > As a person of Jewish ancestry, I would never cast my vote for any man
> > or woman simply because we share a common ancestry! "So what", as my
> > kids would say!
> >
> > Yet, there are so many who have voiced support of the Democratic VP
> > because of his religious choice, and ancestry. All of this is amazing
> > when you consider that the media would immediately attack any well
> > known, outspoken Christian picked for that position.
> >

> > In November, using the same mindset as some blacks and browns, a large
> > number of Jews will go to the polls to cast their vote for the party
> > that has a Jew running as VP. Most Jews vote democrat, but some on the
> > verge of running away from the corruption in Clinton's party will be
> > called back out of a feeling of obligation that they must support and
> > promote a fellow Jew--Proving once again that many simply cannot see
> > anything more than a persons race.
> >

MWSmith

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Aug 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/20/00
to
On Sun, 20 Aug 2000 20:03:09 GMT, nospam...@airmail.net (Ms.
Editor) wrote:

> I don't care about the religion, as long as God runs the person who
>runs the country.

An honorable, religious man would have demanded a resignation, or
would have resigned, himself. And honorable, godly man would have
never stated that clinton is one of our greatest presidents.

>And I am voting Gore/Lieberman because, among many other reasons, I DON'T want
>multi-multi-millionnaires in charge of a country that's mainly middle and
>lower class. The old "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" republican dogma is
>old and shows their insensitivity to the realities of life in America.

So you do not want experienced businessmen running our economy or
Country. You want a couple of shyster lawyers that have been eating
out of the public trough all their lives. You want the "privileged
people" ruling us. You want a liar and a suck-up leading our great
Nation.

That's pathetic.

>The democratic ticket just seems like "real people" to me.

clinton/Algore talk about everything; they accomplish nothing.
clinton/Algore take credit for everything; they have done nothing.
If this is your idea about what "real people" look like, why not stay
at home November 7. Watch TV. You already believe everything you hear
on TV.

Mike Smith

Algore is just another one of life's "me too" posters.

Algore is always fighting for something or someone.
Truth is, Algore couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag.

Who do you want running our Nation?
A couple of lawyers (Al & Joe)
or
A couple of businessmen? (George W. & Richard)

Tracey-Levin

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Aug 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/20/00
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Clinton would enjoy being a truck driver, or the manager of an Ice House.
Algore needs help. He seems a bit slow. Does he qualify for special care under
the ADA?


Tracey

Jeffrey E. Salzberg

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Aug 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/20/00
to
In article <39A04689...@hotbot.com>,

Tracey-Levin <trac...@hotbot.com> wrote:
> Oh my, do I have explain everything to you? You don't even
understand a
> pinto bean joke.

David, I think we all understood what you meant by that joke.

> Forget it, Alberto. Don't even worry about what I
said.

Very few of us really do, David.

Jeffrey E. Salzberg

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Aug 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/20/00
to
In article <39A04A7B...@hotbot.com>,

Tracey-Levin <trac...@hotbot.com> wrote:
> Im sorry that you don't understand my statements and questions
regarding
> candidates for office.

Oh, David, we understood.

> Any candidate may be a decent person in his
daily
> life, but if he supports socialism, communism, globalism, or big
government
> policies, he is a danger to liberty in America

Please cite evidence that Liebermann holds such views. . .using the
*real* definitions of the terms, not those used by you and your fellow
idiots.

> The coming anti-christ, who will rule the world, will not take-over
with
> force, but with a personality of broad appeal.

He'll be a hate-filled child claiming to bhave been born Jewish and
then converted to Christianity.

Merlin Dorfman

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Aug 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/20/00
to
In ca.general Tracey-Levin <trac...@hotbot.com> wrote:
: Im sorry that you don't understand my statements and questions regarding
: candidates for office. Any candidate may be a decent person in his daily

: life, but if he supports socialism, communism, globalism, or big government
: policies, he is a danger to liberty in America, and is not worthy of being a

: dog catcher, much less a VP or President.

: The coming anti-christ, who will rule the world, will not take-over with
: force, but with a personality of broad appeal. He will be perceived by the


: masses as being a most wonderful, caring leader with incredible wit, and
: abilities.

Are you saying George W. is the Antichrist???


Merlin Dorfman

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Aug 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/20/00
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In ca.general Tracey-Levin <trac...@hotbot.com> wrote:
: What president passed the largest tax increase in the history of America?

: What party was in control of both the Executive branch and Congress when this was voted
: into law?

And the Republicans said at the time that it would destroy
the economy. That prediction alone should disqualify them from
governing. But they have never admitted how totally wrong they
were.

: Would such a tax increase indicate a lack of concern for the middle and lower classes?

No, because that is not where the burden fell. (My taxes
went up a couple of hundred dollars a year.)

: After stating that he knew he raised taxes too much while at a meeting in Houston, he


: consistently refused to cut taxes to help the middle and lower classes.

He tried, but by then the Congress was under Republican
control, and they would only cut taxes for the wealthy.

: Would this indicate a lack of concern for the middle and lower classes?

: This president also signed into law a bill limiting the number of years to five in which
: a person could collect welfare in a lifetime. The law stands today.

And you are in favor of this law, are you not? It forces/
encourages people to become employed, which is to their benefit,
isn't it?

: Would this indicate a lack of concern for the middle and lower classes?

: Tracey - a fool is born every minute and the DNC counts on it.

I don't think the DNC counts on you at all, Tracey.


Susan Laxton

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Aug 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/20/00
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"Ms. Editor" <nospam...@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:D7F9684E6EADB103.21887D76...@lp.airnews.net...

> In article <39A02314...@hotbot.com>, Tracey-Levin
<trac...@hotbot.com> wrote:
> > Would you vote for a Jew simply because he's a Jew?
>
> I'd be inclined to vote for a practicing Jew (one who has a day-to-day
> relationship with God) over any professing Christian who goes through the
> motions but does not have a heart-felt devotion and does not put God
first.
> In short, I don't care about the religion, as long as God runs the person
who
> runs the country.


I'm impressed that you're able to determine a person's "heart-felt devotion"
(or lack of the same) without ever meeting them, and only hearing what their
speechwriters have written. You should sell courses in how to do that.

Merlin Dorfman

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Aug 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/20/00
to

In ca.general MWSmith <m...@wt.net> wrote:
: On Sun, 20 Aug 2000 20:03:09 GMT, nospam...@airmail.net (Ms.
: Editor) wrote:

:> I don't care about the religion, as long as God runs the person who
:>runs the country.

: An honorable, religious man would have demanded a resignation, or


: would have resigned, himself. And honorable, godly man would have
: never stated that clinton is one of our greatest presidents.

:>And I am voting Gore/Lieberman because, among many other reasons, I DON'T want

:>multi-multi-millionnaires in charge of a country that's mainly middle and
:>lower class. The old "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" republican dogma is

:>old and shows their insensitivity to the realities of life in America.

: So you do not want experienced businessmen running our economy or
: Country. You want a couple of shyster lawyers that have been eating
: out of the public trough all their lives. You want the "privileged
: people" ruling us. You want a liar and a suck-up leading our great
: Nation.

W is "experienced" only in losing other people's money and in
making a profit on the deal himself. Cheney's business experience
consists of being brought in at the top to make use of his
government contacts and experience.

: That's pathetic.

:>The democratic ticket just seems like "real people" to me.

: clinton/Algore talk about everything; they accomplish nothing.
: clinton/Algore take credit for everything; they have done nothing.
: If this is your idea about what "real people" look like, why not stay
: at home November 7. Watch TV. You already believe everything you hear
: on TV.

Most people are aware that the country and the world are in
pretty good shape. If that were not the case, would you absolve
the Pres & VP from any blame? Yeah, right. They have some share
of the credit, and that is what they have accomplished.

: Mike Smith

: Algore is just another one of life's "me too" posters.

You've been using this "sig" for months, and it continues
to amaze me. W has never had an original thought in his life.
You could make the case he's never had a thought of any kind...
you may not like what Gore is thinking and saying, but they
are his thoughts and his words.

: Algore is always fighting for something or someone.

: Truth is, Algore couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag.

: Who do you want running our Nation?
: A couple of lawyers (Al & Joe)
: or
: A couple of businessmen? (George W. & Richard)

LOL!!
Of course you voted for Jimmy Carter over Reagan because
he had been a businessman while Reagan was an actor and
politician?? W was an absolute disaster as a businessman...
well let me amend that, he made lots of money for himself but
lost it for his investors/contributors. Cheney, after a
lifetime in politics, was hired by a Big Oil company for his
contacts and knowledge of government.

...Who would you want running your business, a
lawyer or a businessman? A businessman, of course, he
understands it better. Frankly, lawyers understand government
better than businessmen.


Albert Nurick

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Aug 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/20/00
to
Tracey-Levin <trac...@hotbot.com> wrote in message
news:39A04689...@hotbot.com...

>
> Albert Nurick wrote:
> > Judaism is a religion, not a race. There are Jews of all races,
> > Tracey. If you were actually raised Jewish as you claim, you'd
> > know this.
> >
> > Of course, since you're neither a lawyer or female, I guess that's
> > par for the course. How's the hunt for hairy, busty Jewish women
> > coming?

> Oh my, do I have explain everything to you? You don't even understand a
> pinto bean joke. Forget it, Alberto. Don't even worry about what I said.

I find it comical that someone who is pretending to be
raised a Jew doesn't even realize that Judaism is a
religion, not a race.

You're a sham, Tracey/David/whatever. You're not even
smart enough to be a very good one.

--
Albert Nurick
alb...@nurick.com


Adam Weiss

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Aug 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/20/00
to
I would vote for any morally upright, deeply religious man who is not
aligned with the Christian Far Right.

I would vote for Lieberman if he weren't running with Al Gore.

Tracey-Levin wrote:

<<snipped>>


--

Adam Weiss
w...@whazo.com

--

People in stone houses shouldn't throw glass.

--

Hank Mishkoff

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Aug 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/20/00
to
> Judaism is a religion, not a race. There are Jews of all races,
> Tracey. If you were actually raised Jewish as you claim, you'd
> know this.

Actually, the word "Jew" can mean either someone of the Hebrew/Jewish "race"
or someone who practices the Jewish religion. It often means both, but
sometimes means only one or the other -- which can raise semantic
difficulties when it's unclear which definition is being used.

MWSmith

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Aug 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/20/00
to
On 20 Aug 2000 23:04:33 GMT, Merlin Dorfman
<dor...@netcom17.netcom.com> wrote:

>
>In ca.general MWSmith <m...@wt.net> wrote:
>: On Sun, 20 Aug 2000 20:03:09 GMT, nospam...@airmail.net (Ms.
>: Editor) wrote:
>
>:> I don't care about the religion, as long as God runs the person who
>:>runs the country.
>
>: An honorable, religious man would have demanded a resignation, or
>: would have resigned, himself. And honorable, godly man would have
>: never stated that clinton is one of our greatest presidents.
>
>:>And I am voting Gore/Lieberman because, among many other reasons, I DON'T want
>
>:>multi-multi-millionnaires in charge of a country that's mainly middle and
>:>lower class. The old "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" republican dogma is
>
>:>old and shows their insensitivity to the realities of life in America.
>
>: So you do not want experienced businessmen running our economy or
>: Country. You want a couple of shyster lawyers that have been eating
>: out of the public trough all their lives. You want the "privileged
>: people" ruling us. You want a liar and a suck-up leading our great
>: Nation.
>
> W is "experienced" only in losing other people's money and in
>making a profit on the deal himself. Cheney's business experience
>consists of being brought in at the top to make use of his
>government contacts and experience.

Only in your dreams. If you want to believe the liberal/socialist
propaganda about George W. and Cheney, go ahead. Don't expect anyone
to follow you.


>
>: That's pathetic.
>
>:>The democratic ticket just seems like "real people" to me.
>
>: clinton/Algore talk about everything; they accomplish nothing.
>: clinton/Algore take credit for everything; they have done nothing.
>: If this is your idea about what "real people" look like, why not stay
>: at home November 7. Watch TV. You already believe everything you hear
>: on TV.
>
> Most people are aware that the country and the world are in
>pretty good shape. If that were not the case, would you absolve
>the Pres & VP from any blame? Yeah, right. They have some share
>of the credit, and that is what they have accomplished.

Pretty good shape? I was paying $.969 to $.989 per gallon of gas. Now
I pay between $1.319 and $1.459 for that same gallon of gas. I also
pay 4.3 cents per gallon more in taxes. My parents pay income tax on
85% of their SS because they are rich, according to clinton and
Algore. ($35,000 a year!)


>
>: Mike Smith
>
>: Algore is just another one of life's "me too" posters.
>
> You've been using this "sig" for months, and it continues
>to amaze me. W has never had an original thought in his life.
>You could make the case he's never had a thought of any kind...
>you may not like what Gore is thinking and saying, but they
>are his thoughts and his words.

Algore is the person who has never had an original thought in his
life. EVERYTHING that George W Bush has proposed has been a risky
scheme, until the polls show it to have some merit, then Algore trots
out his "own" plan, mimicking GWB.


>
>: Algore is always fighting for something or someone.
>: Truth is, Algore couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag.
>
>: Who do you want running our Nation?
>: A couple of lawyers (Al & Joe)
>: or
>: A couple of businessmen? (George W. & Richard)
>
> LOL!!
> Of course you voted for Jimmy Carter over Reagan because
>he had been a businessman while Reagan was an actor and
>politician??

Carter and ALgore have similarities. Except Algore is dumber.
Reagan had a vision for our Nation and he succeeded in implementing
his vision. IE, lower taxes, defeat of communism, and rebuilding our
Nation's defenses.



>W was an absolute disaster as a businessman...
>well let me amend that, he made lots of money for himself but
>lost it for his investors/contributors. Cheney, after a
>lifetime in politics, was hired by a Big Oil company for his
>contacts and knowledge of government.

Re-read their biographies. You seem to be flat-out wrong.

>
>...Who would you want running your business, a
>lawyer or a businessman? A businessman, of course, he
>understands it better. Frankly, lawyers understand government
>better than businessmen.

When you get past your teen years, you will realize how dumb that
statement is.

Mike Smith

Algore is just another one of life's "me too" posters.

Algore is always fighting for something or someone.

Professor Vonroach

unread,
Aug 20, 2000, 8:34:39 PM8/20/00
to
On Sun, 20 Aug 2000 17:52:08 -0500, "Susan Laxton" <so...@texas.net>
wrote:

>"Ms. Editor" <nospam...@airmail.net> wrote in message
>news:D7F9684E6EADB103.21887D76...@lp.airnews.net...
>> In article <39A02314...@hotbot.com>, Tracey-Levin
><trac...@hotbot.com> wrote:
>> > Would you vote for a Jew simply because he's a Jew?
>>
>> I'd be inclined to vote for a practicing Jew (one who has a day-to-day
>> relationship with God) over any professing Christian who goes through the
>> motions but does not have a heart-felt devotion and does not put God
>first.

>> In short, I don't care about the religion, as long as God runs the person
>who
>> runs the country.
>
>


>I'm impressed that you're able to determine a person's "heart-felt devotion"
>(or lack of the same) without ever meeting them, and only hearing what their
>speechwriters have written. You should sell courses in how to do that.
>

Just knowing their friends helps - Clinton, Hilliary, Algore, et al.

Juan Jimenez

unread,
Aug 20, 2000, 9:34:33 PM8/20/00
to
Tracey-Levin wrote ---^

What a question. You will vote for Dubya Shrub simply because he is a
Republican. What does that say about you?

Jeffrey E. Salzberg

unread,
Aug 20, 2000, 10:59:11 PM8/20/00
to
In article
<0E245840A1EE74BB.587FC540...@lp.airnews.net>,

spammers will be hunted down and deleted <m...@wt.net> wrote:

> I was paying $.969 to $.989 per gallon of gas. Now
> I pay between $1.319 and $1.459 for that same gallon of gas.

So your solution is to vote for two former oil executives?

Olin Murrell

unread,
Aug 21, 2000, 12:40:56 AM8/21/00
to

"Jeffrey E. Salzberg" <salz...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8nq5tn$203$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

> In article
> <0E245840A1EE74BB.587FC540...@lp.airnews.net>,
> spammers will be hunted down and deleted <m...@wt.net> wrote:
>
> > I was paying $.969 to $.989 per gallon of gas. Now
> > I pay between $1.319 and $1.459 for that same gallon of gas.
>
> So your solution is to vote for two former oil executives?
>
> --
> -------------
> Jeffrey E. Salzberg, Lighting Designer
>

According to many of my more conservative friends, and a couple who are IN
the oil business, the prices are strictly tied directly to the market price
of crude.

Even if one discounts the new laws, passed with the not at all insignificant
help of the GOP, about the use of gasohol in areas of high smog, this would
seem to be the "free market" at work... something most Republicans I've
known have long-since claimed to want.

At least, that's what the oil industry wants us to believe. Of course,
others want us to believe it's entirely the fault of the White House.
Somehow, I suspect they're both at least partly correct. It is, after all,
difficult to believe that $31/barrel crude is gonna translate into
$0.98/gallon gasoline. Though, it should also be remembered that under this
White House, the price of gasoline just last year hovered right around the
$0.95/gallon price.

If they're gonna get the blame for this increase, should they not get the
credit for last year's respites?

Or, are we to believe the Seven Sisters are jacking up the price of gas just
to make Slick look bad?

Yeah, sure. ;^)

Robert L. Coyle Jr.

unread,
Aug 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/21/00
to
Jeffrey E. Salzberg (salz...@my-deja.com) wrote:
: In article <39A02314...@hotbot.com>,
: Tracey-Levin <trac...@hotbot.com> wrote:

: >Would you vote for a Jew simply because he's
: > a Jew?

: Absolutely not. Unlike you, David, I don't base my opinions of people
: on their ethnic origins.

I just KNEW that troll would flush Salzberger out of the woodwork!


Professor Vonroach

unread,
Aug 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/21/00
to

Many folks have their own Hank. A little item known as prejudice.
Prejudice is based on what one has been told and personal experience.
It is on occasion more accurate than a dictionary.

Professor Vonroach

unread,
Aug 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/21/00
to
On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 02:59:11 GMT, Jeffrey E. Salzberg
<salz...@my-deja.com> wrote:

>In article
><0E245840A1EE74BB.587FC540...@lp.airnews.net>,
> spammers will be hunted down and deleted <m...@wt.net> wrote:
>
>> I was paying $.969 to $.989 per gallon of gas. Now
>> I pay between $1.319 and $1.459 for that same gallon of gas.
>
>So your solution is to vote for two former oil executives?

Yes indeed. By the way what do you think Occidental Petroleum is chop
suey. If you don't know ask Algore. By the way can you document that
either Governor G. W. Bush or Dick Cheney is an oil executive? Or owns
any stock in any oil company? Being well informed, I'm sure that you
know that Haliburton is an engineering, construction, and well service
company. That is not an `oil company'. G.H.W. Bush sold his interest
in the oil drilling company he founded and built - known as Zapata
Offshore, decades ago. The `Dallas Texans' have none of the
characteristics of a gusher to me. Finally, the oil functions of State
government were separated from the Governor's office decades ago and
invested in a publically elected commission - The Texas Railroad
Commission. Now, Mr. Encyclopedia where does this `oil executive'
come from other than Algore and Oxy?

Jeffrey E. Salzberg

unread,
Aug 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/21/00
to
In article <39ab0f21...@NNTP.ix.netcom.com>,
vonr...@popd.ix.netcom.com (Professor Vonroach) wrote:

> >So your solution is to vote for two former oil executives?

<deletia>

> By the way can you document that
> either Governor G. W. Bush or Dick Cheney is an oil executive? Or
owns
> any stock in any oil company?

OK. We can add "former" to the list of words Prof doesn't understand.

> Being well informed, I'm sure that you
> know that Haliburton is an engineering, construction, and well
service
> company. That is not an `oil company'.

It is a company whose revenue comes from oil industry.

Dave Anderson

unread,
Aug 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/21/00
to
MWSmith wrote:

> Pretty good shape? I was paying $.969 to $.989 per gallon of gas. Now


> I pay between $1.319 and $1.459 for that same gallon of gas.

Even $2.00 per gallon represents a significant reduction in the price of
gasoline over the last 25 years. Have you ever heard of constant dollars?

> EVERYTHING that George W Bush has proposed has been a risky scheme

...if only vacuously.

> Reagan had a vision for our Nation and he succeeded in implementing
> his vision. IE, lower taxes, defeat of communism, and rebuilding our
> Nation's defenses.

You forgot one: A debt exceeding $16,000 per man, woman and child.

> Truth is, Algore couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag.

I don't think you are using the word "truth" in the same manner the rest of
the English speaking world does. Please refrain from using it until you
learn its definition.


--
Dave Anderson

Unsolicited commercial email will be read at a cost of $500 per message. Use
of this email address implies consent to these terms.


Che'Gu Maru

unread,
Aug 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/21/00
to
Tracey-Levin wrote:

> Im sorry that you don't understand my statements and questions regarding
> candidates for office. Any candidate may be a decent person in his daily
> life, but if he supports socialism, communism, globalism, or big government
> policies, he is a danger to liberty in America, and is not worthy of being a
> dog catcher, much less a VP or President.

Wow! What a catch all! In one grand swoop we have socialism, communism,
globalism, or big government policies! Woopde do.

I have a surprise for you, Tracey. Economic development goes its own merry way
regardless of how much the scared conservatives try to hold it back. I am certain
the feudal lords felt every bit as much terror over the grown of capitalism as you
are feeling over the development of the global economy. But the global economy is
an increasingly real factor and those who deny it simply are not going to
prosper. The world's economy has become larger than that of any one nation; even
the U.S. is dependent now upon other nations for its own economic well-being,
nations as different as Saudi Arabia, Japan, and Mexico.

As for the boogymen of communism and socialism, I guess no one told you that the
"Pope of Communism,"" one Gorbachev, announced a couple of decades ago that
"they'd found the body." In other words, communism is dead, and socialism is
dying, except in the minds of their fanatic supporters who happen to have much the
same mind set as you. The only difference is the names they and you give to the
gods which they and you blindly worship.

> The coming anti-christ, who will rule the world, will not take-over with
> force, but with a personality of broad appeal. He will be perceived by the
> masses as being a most wonderful, caring leader with incredible wit, and

> abilities. He will be the most profound orator, and able to bring peace where
> peace has not existed. Simply, the world will fall in love with him. He will
> be the devil incarnate, however, and if you refuse to take his mark, you will
> not be able to buy or sell. And, you will be killed if caught for being a
> rebel against this great leader. Jonestown on a global level.

Ah, well, I won't hold my breath. You ARE entitled to believe whatever mythology
you choose. You can worship Jesus Christ, but I would much prefer Hanumanji. You
can wait for your anti-Christ if you want; I'd rather eat a banana.

> Personal appeal has nothing to do with being righteous. Clinton is god to
> some, but to those with a brain, he is vile, and a great deceiver.
>
> The future looks bright, but only to those who know the "Truth".
>
> Tracey

Well, in that case, when are you going to open your eyes, realize that you are
working in a darkness created by theological blindness, and begin to understand
the lies you live and the truth of the world?


Merlin Dorfman

unread,
Aug 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/21/00
to
In ca.general MWSmith <m...@wt.net> wrote:
: On 20 Aug 2000 23:04:33 GMT, Merlin Dorfman
: <dor...@netcom17.netcom.com> wrote:

:> W is "experienced" only in losing other people's money and in


:>making a profit on the deal himself. Cheney's business experience
:>consists of being brought in at the top to make use of his
:>government contacts and experience.

: Only in your dreams. If you want to believe the liberal/socialist
: propaganda about George W. and Cheney, go ahead. Don't expect anyone
: to follow you.

All well documented. W's businesses were all failures, losing
large amounts of money for investors/contributors. Cheney was in
politics his entire life before being hired by a Texas company that
provides goods and services to oil drillers, after Bush Sr. lost
the 1992 election.

:> Most people are aware that the country and the world are in


:>pretty good shape. If that were not the case, would you absolve
:>the Pres & VP from any blame? Yeah, right. They have some share
:>of the credit, and that is what they have accomplished.

: Pretty good shape? I was paying $.969 to $.989 per gallon of gas. Now
: I pay between $1.319 and $1.459 for that same gallon of gas. I also


: pay 4.3 cents per gallon more in taxes. My parents pay income tax on
: 85% of their SS because they are rich, according to clinton and
: Algore. ($35,000 a year!)

If that's the worst you can think of, that gas prices have
gone up in the past year and your rich parents have to pay taxes
on Social Security, the defense rests.

:>: Mike Smith


:>
:>: Algore is just another one of life's "me too" posters.
:>
:> You've been using this "sig" for months, and it continues
:>to amaze me. W has never had an original thought in his life.
:>You could make the case he's never had a thought of any kind...
:>you may not like what Gore is thinking and saying, but they
:>are his thoughts and his words.

: Algore is the person who has never had an original thought in his

: life. EVERYTHING that George W Bush has proposed has been a risky
: scheme, until the polls show it to have some merit, then Algore trots


: out his "own" plan, mimicking GWB.

EVERYTHING W has proposed has come direct from the oil
industry or his father's advisers (Rice, Schultz, etc.). You
may like the ideas, but they are not W's. Gore was very early
in his support for the environment and technology. You may not
like the ideas, but they are his.

:>: Algore is always fighting for something or someone.
:>: Truth is, Algore couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag.
:>
:>: Who do you want running our Nation?


:>: A couple of lawyers (Al & Joe)
:>: or
:>: A couple of businessmen? (George W. & Richard)
:>
:> LOL!!
:> Of course you voted for Jimmy Carter over Reagan because
:>he had been a businessman while Reagan was an actor and
:>politician??

: Carter and ALgore have similarities. Except Algore is dumber.

: Reagan had a vision for our Nation and he succeeded in implementing


: his vision. IE, lower taxes, defeat of communism, and rebuilding our
: Nation's defenses.

Doesn't answer the question. Carter was a businessman,
Reagan was an actor and politician. By your above logic, you
should have voted for Carter. Did you? If not, why should we
pay any attention to that logic in deciding who to vote for
this year?

:>W was an absolute disaster as a businessman...


:>well let me amend that, he made lots of money for himself but
:>lost it for his investors/contributors. Cheney, after a
:>lifetime in politics, was hired by a Big Oil company for his
:>contacts and knowledge of government.

: Re-read their biographies. You seem to be flat-out wrong.

Re-read something not published with the purpose of
supporting their candidacies. Have they had biographies
written? If so, please cite, and I will make the effort to
read them. (It's only fair.)

:>...Who would you want running your business, a


:>lawyer or a businessman? A businessman, of course, he
:>understands it better. Frankly, lawyers understand government
:>better than businessmen.

: When you get past your teen years, you will realize how dumb that
: statement is.

When you get past your teen years, you will realize how dumb

THAT statement is...or maybe you won't.


arw

unread,
Aug 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/21/00
to
Albert Nurick <alb...@nurick.com> wrote in message
news:B6C5AA23CE1CD18B.5856123A...@lp.airnews.net...

> Tracey-Levin <trac...@hotbot.com> wrote in message
> news:39A04689...@hotbot.com...

> I find it comical that someone who is pretending to be
> raised a Jew doesn't even realize that Judaism is a
> religion, not a race.

Travidiosity is no Jew. He is an epsilon semi-moron without the brains to
even know from which book that term came from.


> You're a sham, Tracey/David/whatever. You're not even
> smart enough to be a very good one.
>
> --
> Albert Nurick
> alb...@nurick.com


Travidiot is a lying, racist, anti-semetic, bigoted, spamming, copyright
violating poor excuse for a right-wing wacko. A REAL right-wing wacko
wouldn't be seen NEAR this 'bot.

Alan

li...@ork.net

unread,
Aug 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/21/00
to
Susan Laxton <so...@texas.net> wrote:

>> I'd be inclined to vote for a practicing Jew (one who has a day-to-day
>> relationship with God) over any professing Christian who goes through the
>> motions but does not have a heart-felt devotion and does not put God
> first.
>> In short, I don't care about the religion, as long as God runs the person
>> who runs the country.

> I'm impressed that you're able to determine a person's "heart-felt devotion"
> (or lack of the same) without ever meeting them, and only hearing what their
> speechwriters have written. You should sell courses in how to do that.

The only thing heart-felt about Lieberman is that he has found a Rabbi
that permits him to work on the Sabbath.

According to Orthodox Jews I know, no Jew is allowed to work for money on
the Sabbath, unless he is a doctor saving lives, or something very
similar.

It is a crock of shit for Old Joe to claim that he has a "special
dispensation" to be a politician on the Sabbath. Of course, a Jew does not
have to be observant, but just like Clinton, Old Joe manages to talk out
of both sides of his mouth in claiming things that are false, because he
thinks it will give gim an advantage.

arw

unread,
Aug 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/21/00
to
Hey, Tracey!

If you were born and raised Jewish, answer these questions:

What is a minyan?

Who formulated the 13 rules?

What does "shanda fur de goyim" mean?

Alan


Jeffrey E. Salzberg <salz...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8npei3$8n0$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...


> In article <39A02314...@hotbot.com>,
> Tracey-Levin <trac...@hotbot.com> wrote:
>
> >Would you vote for a Jew simply because he's
> > a Jew?
>
> Absolutely not. Unlike you, David, I don't base my opinions of people
> on their ethnic origins.
>

> > As a person of Jewish ancestry,
>
> David, you're a liar. No one believes that; why do you keep repeating
> it.
>
> >"So what", as my
> > kids would say!
>
> Not many 14-year-olds have kids old enough to talk.
>
>
> > Yet, there are so many who have voiced support of the Democratic VP
> > because of his religious choice, and ancestry.
>
> Please cite one.
>
> Hint: you won't.
>
> Hint #2: David, you're an idiot.

Albert Nurick

unread,
Aug 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/21/00
to
Hank Mishkoff <Ha...@AddisonWeb.com> wrote in message
news:C16A5451BCE2529C.E67E22BA...@lp.airnews.net...

> > Judaism is a religion, not a race. There are Jews of all races,
> > Tracey. If you were actually raised Jewish as you claim, you'd
> > know this.
>
> Actually, the word "Jew" can mean either someone of the Hebrew/Jewish
"race"
> or someone who practices the Jewish religion. It often means both, but
> sometimes means only one or the other -- which can raise semantic
> difficulties when it's unclear which definition is being used.

And what, praytell is the Hebrew/Jewish "race"?

--
Albert Nurick
alb...@nurick.com


Merlin Dorfman

unread,
Aug 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/21/00
to
In ca.general li...@ork.net wrote:
: Susan Laxton <so...@texas.net> wrote:

:>> I'd be inclined to vote for a practicing Jew (one who has a day-to-day
:>> relationship with God) over any professing Christian who goes through the
:>> motions but does not have a heart-felt devotion and does not put God
:> first.
:>> In short, I don't care about the religion, as long as God runs the person
:>> who runs the country.

:> I'm impressed that you're able to determine a person's "heart-felt devotion"
:> (or lack of the same) without ever meeting them, and only hearing what their
:> speechwriters have written. You should sell courses in how to do that.

: The only thing heart-felt about Lieberman is that he has found a Rabbi
: that permits him to work on the Sabbath.

: According to Orthodox Jews I know, no Jew is allowed to work for money on
: the Sabbath, unless he is a doctor saving lives, or something very
: similar.

He has attended "emergency sessions" of the Senate, where
decisions are made that can affect people as much as the things
a doctor does. Other than that, he takes the day off. And when
he does attend emergency sessions, he walks there!
Do you believe that attending National Security crisis
meetings on a Saturday would be a similar "emergency?"

: It is a crock of shit for Old Joe to claim that he has a "special


: dispensation" to be a politician on the Sabbath. Of course, a Jew does not
: have to be observant, but just like Clinton, Old Joe manages to talk out
: of both sides of his mouth in claiming things that are false, because he
: thinks it will give gim an advantage.

He claims no such dispensation. He does not carry out
political activities on Saturdays (or Friday evenings), e.g.,
he does not and will not campaign. He participates in
government functions only on the above "emergency" basis.
Why do you believe he claims special dispensation?


Che'Gu Maru

unread,
Aug 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/21/00
to
Albert Nurick wrote:

> And what, praytell is the Hebrew/Jewish "race"?
>
> --

Don't they run it in Israel as part of the Maccabee games?


Che'Gu Maru

unread,
Aug 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/21/00
to
The truth is we'd all be better of if both tickets were reversed:
Chaney/Bush and Lieberman/Gore. But that is not going to happen.

The sad thing is that the Democrats truly have begun to run the most rational
campaign, actually discussion issues and positions. The reason it is sad (to
me) is that on one very important issue, that of individual rights under the
Second Amendment, I are absolutely certain the Democrats are wrong.
Moreover, I think the evidence indicates that if they succeeded in making it
far more difficult for individuals to own and carry firearms, the result
would be to make our nation a far more dangerous place for law-abiding
citizens.

Therefore, I am voting Republican. I would have done so more eagerly if Bush
had chosen Alan Keyes as his running mate, but Chaney isn't half bad. As the
ancient physicians were told, try to do no harm. The Republicans will
probably do less damage to the nation than the Democrats for the next four
years and, hopefully, if the Democrats suffer a crushing defeat because of
their position on firearms, they might begin to rethink it.


glitterboy

unread,
Aug 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/21/00
to

I normally do not reply to the crap found in this forum, although I do read
it. I make an exception for you.

Where do you get your analysis abilities from? What sort of hatred filled
environment were you dragged up during your formative years?

Your rationale is full of shit - nothing less. People will vote Democrat
this election, because the Republicans screwed up with having "Wimpy Bush"
represent them. Get that racist shit about race and color out of your
head - it makes you come across as another Texas Red Neck.

Peace - Vote Gore!


Tracey-Levin <trac...@hotbot.com> wrote in message

news:39A02314...@hotbot.com...
>
> We know that at least in the past, many minorities would vote for the
> minority because he was one of them. The idea here is that if he has x
> skin color, the candidate supports that values of that culture/race.
> So, the question has to be asked of people who do not have the skin
> color of a minority group: Would you vote for a Jew simply because he's
> a Jew?
>
>
> As a person of Jewish ancestry, I would never cast my vote for any man
> or woman simply because we share a common ancestry! "So what", as my
> kids would say!
>


> Yet, there are so many who have voiced support of the Democratic VP

> because of his religious choice, and ancestry. All of this is amazing
> when you consider that the media would immediately attack any well
> known, outspoken Christian picked for that position.
>
> In November, using the same mindset as some blacks and browns, a large
> number of Jews will go to the polls to cast their vote for the party
> that has a Jew running as VP. Most Jews vote democrat, but some on the
> verge of running away from the corruption in Clinton's party will be
> called back out of a feeling of obligation that they must support and
> promote a fellow Jew--Proving once again that many simply cannot see
> anything more than a persons race.
>
>
> Tracey
>
>

Adam Weiss

unread,
Aug 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/21/00
to

Spankster wrote:


>
> In article <8nsja0$19a6$1...@newssvr05-en0.news.prodigy.com>, "glitterboy" <glitt...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> >I normally do not reply to the crap found in this forum, although I do read
> >it. I make an exception for you.
> >
> >Where do you get your analysis abilities from? What sort of hatred filled
> >environment were you dragged up during your formative years?
> >
> >Your rationale is full of shit - nothing less. People will vote Democrat
> >this election, because the Republicans screwed up with having "Wimpy Bush"
> >represent them. Get that racist shit about race and color out of your
> >head - it makes you come across as another Texas Red Neck.
>

> What kind of wacky weed have you been smoking??? LOL!!!
> What people? Texas is going to EASILY carry Bush in the elections.
> Along with many other states. Personally I know of only one person
> in my family that is voting Democrat. And that is my wife's Gramma
> and she is 88 years old and doesn't even know who is for what issue.
> She is doing it because she has always done it. heh heh heh
> (nobody dare tell her otherwise either).

This thread is crossposted to dfw.general, houston.general, ca.general,
and nyc.general. You're both right. If you're reading in NYC or
California, then everyone around you IS voting Democrat, or so it
probably seems to you. If you're in Dallas or Houston, as I am, then
chances are they're all voting Republican.

It's really not much more than a matter of geography. Gore carries most
of the urban West Coast and East Coast areas. The rest are either going
for Bush or are undecided.
>
> I don't have any associate or friends that I know of that are claiming
> to vote Democrat. It is either for sure BUSH or "I don't know" but
> so far no "For sure Gore" 's.

I'm one of those "I don't knows". I was a Democrat until Clinton lied,
in my living room, on my television. I'm not sure I can trust Al Gore,
given how firmly he stood by Clinton during those lies. I would support
Lieberman if he were running alone, on moral grounds at least, because
he saw through the lies and supported censure (like most Democrats did).
>
> You practicing to be a comedian or do you really wear horse blinders?

No. He's probably just in California; maybe NYC.

Susan Laxton

unread,
Aug 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/21/00
to
I'm going to forward myself this mail and remind Glitterboy of it in late
November.

"glitterboy" <glitt...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:8nsja0$19a6$1...@newssvr05-en0.news.prodigy.com...


>
> I normally do not reply to the crap found in this forum, although I do
read
> it. I make an exception for you.
>
> Where do you get your analysis abilities from? What sort of hatred filled
> environment were you dragged up during your formative years?
>
> Your rationale is full of shit - nothing less. People will vote Democrat
> this election, because the Republicans screwed up with having "Wimpy
Bush"
> represent them. Get that racist shit about race and color out of your
> head - it makes you come across as another Texas Red Neck.
>

Ben Howard

unread,
Aug 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/21/00
to

Tracey-Levin wrote in message <39A04A7B...@hotbot.com>...

>The coming anti-christ, who will rule the world, will not take-over with
>force, but with a personality of broad appeal. He will be perceived by the
>masses as being a most wonderful, caring leader with incredible wit, and
>abilities. He will be the most profound orator, and able to bring peace
where
>peace has not existed. Simply, the world will fall in love with him. He
will
>be the devil incarnate, however, and if you refuse to take his mark, you
will
>not be able to buy or sell. And, you will be killed if caught for being a
>rebel against this great leader. Jonestown on a global level.


if you believe in the truth of the book of Revelation, you know that it
will come to pass no matter who you vote for. If you were as faithful as
you let on, you wouldn't even be interested in Earthly politics.

Professor Vonroach

unread,
Aug 21, 2000, 8:03:03 PM8/21/00
to
On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 12:14:41 GMT, Jeffrey E. Salzberg
<salz...@my-deja.com> wrote:

>In article <39ab0f21...@NNTP.ix.netcom.com>,
> vonr...@popd.ix.netcom.com (Professor Vonroach) wrote:
>

>> >So your solution is to vote for two former oil executives?
>

><deletia>
>
>> By the way can you document that
>> either Governor G. W. Bush or Dick Cheney is an oil executive? Or
>owns
>> any stock in any oil company?
>
>OK. We can add "former" to the list of words Prof doesn't understand.
>
>> Being well informed, I'm sure that you
>> know that Haliburton is an engineering, construction, and well
>service
>> company. That is not an `oil company'.
>
>It is a company whose revenue comes from oil industry.

No, has many sources of revenue. Construction, Engineering, etc.
The well service division is only a part. Part of the income of many
businesses comes from the oil industry. It is a very important
industry vital to our economy. Occidental Petroleum is a direct part
of the oil industry receiving benefits from the federal government.

If you travel the Interstate Highway System you probably travel on
highway engineered and constructed by Brown and Root, another division
of Habituation.

Chas Samuels

unread,
Aug 21, 2000, 9:32:00 PM8/21/00
to

Hairy and Bushy? Are they running for Prez and V-Prez?


In article
<B0022F05B3566F88.8600ED5F...@lp.airnews.net>, "Albert

Nurick" <alb...@nurick.com> wrote:
>Tracey-Levin <trac...@hotbot.com> wrote in message
>news:39A02314...@hotbot.com...

>> In November, using the same mindset as some blacks and browns, a large
>> number of Jews will go to the polls to cast their vote for the party
>> that has a Jew running as VP. Most Jews vote democrat, but some on the
>> verge of running away from the corruption in Clinton's party will be
>> called back out of a feeling of obligation that they must support and
>> promote a fellow Jew--Proving once again that many simply cannot see
>> anything more than a persons race.
>

>Judaism is a religion, not a race. There are Jews of all races,
>Tracey. If you were actually raised Jewish as you claim, you'd
>know this.
>

>Of course, since you're neither a lawyer or female, I guess that's
>par for the course. How's the hunt for hairy, busty Jewish women
>coming?
>

chico....@strikeout.com

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 1:11:51 AM8/22/00
to
On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 20:00:42 -0500, "glitterboy" <glitt...@prodigy.net>
wrote:

>I normally do not reply to the crap found in this forum, although I do read
>it. I make an exception for you.

Glitterboy <---------- (LOL)!

Speaking of <biased> <---------- NO DOUBT!

How light are your loafers, Democra[P] Glitterboy?

<G>

Rickey Horwitz

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 2:19:19 AM8/22/00
to

"> Therefore, I am voting Republican. I would have done so more eagerly if
Bush
> had chosen Alan Keyes as his running mate, but Chaney isn't half bad. As
the
> ancient physicians were told, try to do no harm. The Republicans will
> probably do less damage to the nation than the Democrats for the next four
> years and, hopefully, if the Democrats suffer a crushing defeat because of
> their position on firearms, they might begin to rethink it.
>

My feelings also. I think it would have been a partisan reversal if Bush
selected Keyes, or Powell. Both of these individuals have demostrated
characteristics second to none regardless of race. It is sad to see that
the Democrats do not demonstrate strong leadership among black minorities,
although they claim to be champions of equal opportunity. I only hope that
when and if Bush is elected, that he will have the intelligence to place
these individuals into rolls of leadership that will further advance the
black race into the American mainstream. I can only hope...

Regards,

Rick Horwitz


Tracey-Levin

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
Merlin, you're too smart to vote for algore!

Tracey


Merlin Dorfman wrote:

> In ca.general MWSmith <m...@wt.net> wrote:

> : On Sun, 20 Aug 2000 20:03:09 GMT, nospam...@airmail.net (Ms.
> : Editor) wrote:
>
> :> I don't care about the religion, as long as God runs the person who
> :>runs the country.
>
> : An honorable, religious man would have demanded a resignation, or
> : would have resigned, himself. And honorable, godly man would have
> : never stated that clinton is one of our greatest presidents.
>
> :>And I am voting Gore/Lieberman because, among many other reasons, I DON'T want
>
> :>multi-multi-millionnaires in charge of a country that's mainly middle and
> :>lower class. The old "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" republican dogma is
>
> :>old and shows their insensitivity to the realities of life in America.
>
> : So you do not want experienced businessmen running our economy or
> : Country. You want a couple of shyster lawyers that have been eating
> : out of the public trough all their lives. You want the "privileged
> : people" ruling us. You want a liar and a suck-up leading our great
> : Nation.


>
> W is "experienced" only in losing other people's money and in
> making a profit on the deal himself. Cheney's business experience
> consists of being brought in at the top to make use of his
> government contacts and experience.
>

> : That's pathetic.
>
> :>The democratic ticket just seems like "real people" to me.
>
> : clinton/Algore talk about everything; they accomplish nothing.
> : clinton/Algore take credit for everything; they have done nothing.
> : If this is your idea about what "real people" look like, why not stay
> : at home November 7. Watch TV. You already believe everything you hear
> : on TV.


>
> Most people are aware that the country and the world are in
> pretty good shape. If that were not the case, would you absolve
> the Pres & VP from any blame? Yeah, right. They have some share
> of the credit, and that is what they have accomplished.
>

> : Mike Smith
>
> : Algore is just another one of life's "me too" posters.
>
> You've been using this "sig" for months, and it continues
> to amaze me. W has never had an original thought in his life.
> You could make the case he's never had a thought of any kind...
> you may not like what Gore is thinking and saying, but they
> are his thoughts and his words.
>

> : Algore is always fighting for something or someone.
> : Truth is, Algore couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag.
>
> : Who do you want running our Nation?
> : A couple of lawyers (Al & Joe)
> : or
> : A couple of businessmen? (George W. & Richard)
>
> LOL!!
> Of course you voted for Jimmy Carter over Reagan because
> he had been a businessman while Reagan was an actor and

> politician?? W was an absolute disaster as a businessman...


> well let me amend that, he made lots of money for himself but
> lost it for his investors/contributors. Cheney, after a
> lifetime in politics, was hired by a Big Oil company for his
> contacts and knowledge of government.
>

Tracey-Levin

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
Oh boy. Albert, have you been going to the algore academy?

Tracey

Albert Nurick wrote:

> Tracey-Levin <trac...@hotbot.com> wrote in message

> news:39A04689...@hotbot.com...


> >
> > Albert Nurick wrote:
> > > Judaism is a religion, not a race. There are Jews of all races,
> > > Tracey. If you were actually raised Jewish as you claim, you'd
> > > know this.
> > >
> > > Of course, since you're neither a lawyer or female, I guess that's
> > > par for the course. How's the hunt for hairy, busty Jewish women
> > > coming?
>

> > Oh my, do I have explain everything to you? You don't even understand a
> > pinto bean joke. Forget it, Alberto. Don't even worry about what I said.


>
> I find it comical that someone who is pretending to be

> raised a Jew doesn't even realize that Judaism is a
> religion, not a race.
>

Tracey-Levin

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
Well, you have more going for you than some here!

Tracey

Adam Weiss wrote:

> I would vote for any morally upright, deeply religious man who is not
> aligned with the Christian Far Right.
>
> I would vote for Lieberman if he weren't running with Al Gore.
>
> Tracey-Levin wrote:
>
> <<snipped>>

stephen...@spammenot.edu

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 20:00:42 -0500, "glitterboy"
<glitt...@prodigy.net> wrote:

>
>I normally do not reply to the crap found in this forum, although I do read
>it. I make an exception for you.

You say "this forum" but you cross posted to five forums, just like
Travidiot.

>Where do you get your analysis abilities from? What sort of hatred filled
>environment were you dragged up during your formative years?
>
>Your rationale is full of shit - nothing less.

You seem to have figured Travidiot out. Once you realize that he's
full of shit, the next step is to realize that replying to him just
encourages it.


---
Stephen Whitis
Email replies should go to...
scw120198 (at) whitis.com

The address in the header is not valid.

Tracey-Levin

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
Im glad you stated this. Some here are claiming to be Jews, but they seem to be
so uninformed.


Tracey

Hank Mishkoff wrote:

> > Judaism is a religion, not a race. There are Jews of all races,
> > Tracey. If you were actually raised Jewish as you claim, you'd
> > know this.
>

Tracey-Levin

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
Businessmen vs a socialist? Im voting for the businessmen.

Tracey


"Jeffrey E. Salzberg" wrote:

> In article
> <0E245840A1EE74BB.587FC540...@lp.airnews.net>,
> spammers will be hunted down and deleted <m...@wt.net> wrote:
>

> > I was paying $.969 to $.989 per gallon of gas. Now
> > I pay between $1.319 and $1.459 for that same gallon of gas.
>

> So your solution is to vote for two former oil executives?
>

Professor Vonroach

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 20:00:42 -0500, "glitterboy"
<glitt...@prodigy.net> wrote:

>I normally do not reply to the crap found in this forum, although I do read
>it. I make an exception for you.
>

>Where do you get your analysis abilities from? What sort of hatred filled
>environment were you dragged up during your formative years?
>

>Your rationale is full of shit - nothing less. People will vote Democrat
>this election, because the Republicans screwed up with having "Wimpy Bush"
>represent them. Get that racist shit about race and color out of your
>head - it makes you come across as another Texas Red Neck.

Glitterboy does hate and profanity permeate your thinking? Are you a
follower of Farraknam? Sharpton? Javckson? or some other racist?

Professor Vonroach

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 03:12:20 -0500, stephen...@spamMeNot.edu
wrote:

>You seem to have figured Travidiot out. Once you realize that he's
>full of shit, the next step is to realize that replying to him just
>encourages it.

Also it should encourage you (Steve) and glitterboy to examine your
own composition.

MWSmith

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 02:59:11 GMT, Jeffrey E. Salzberg
<salz...@my-deja.com> wrote:

>In article
><0E245840A1EE74BB.587FC540...@lp.airnews.net>,
> spammers will be hunted down and deleted <m...@wt.net> wrote:
>
>> I was paying $.969 to $.989 per gallon of gas. Now
>> I pay between $1.319 and $1.459 for that same gallon of gas.
>
>So your solution is to vote for two former oil executives?

Yes.

They have a clue about the oil business.

clinton/gore are clueless. They've never had a real job in their
lives.

Mike Smith

Algore is just another one of life's "me too" posters.

Algore is always fighting for something or someone.

Susan Laxton

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
"Rickey Horwitz" <rhor...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:HXoo5.13788$K5.2...@typhoon.austin.rr.com...


Everyone and their cousin has tried to get Colin Powell to run with them.
He's not interested.

Bob

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
, Adam Weiss <aw...@pdq.net> ,wrote :

>I was a Democrat until Clinton lied, > in my living room, on my television.

Adam - surely you are founded in more substance than you let on in the
above statement. Every President has lied to the American People.
Since I can't back that up, or don't want to go through the effort,
I'll state this - every President since 1900 except maybe Jimmy Carter
has OUTRIGHT lied to you. Those who you saw on the television lied and
lied about far more serious issues that getting ones' rocks off.

PS - This was not paid by any campaign fund.


Cordially,

Hugh Bob
---------
In important ways, we are no different than the rats in the
learned helplessness study. In this experiment, rats in a
closed cage were made helpless by a series of hundreds of
harmless yet scary shocks. When the wall separating them
from escape was eventually removed, the rats remained and
did not redress their defeated attitude. The rats quivered
inside their cage living with their defeated attitude; they
were bound by their learned helplessness.

Tracey-Levin

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
The left would pick the lawyers who are promising "free" handouts for
their votes.
"If you'll vote for me, I'll give you some of that mans money!"


Tracey

Tracey-Levin

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
He's no good anyway. Powell is a fiscally conservative, morally liberal,
liberal.
We don't need anymore dang liberals in office. They can't keep their zippers
up, and they are treasonous.

Tracey


Susan Laxton wrote:

> "Rickey Horwitz" <rhor...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:HXoo5.13788$K5.2...@typhoon.austin.rr.com...
> >

li...@ork.net

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
Merlin Dorfman <dor...@netcom18.netcom.com> wrote:
> In ca.general li...@ork.net wrote:
> : Susan Laxton <so...@texas.net> wrote:

> :>> I'd be inclined to vote for a practicing Jew (one who has a day-to-day
> :>> relationship with God) over any professing Christian who goes through the
> :>> motions but does not have a heart-felt devotion and does not put God
> :> first.

> :>> In short, I don't care about the religion, as long as God runs the person
> :>> who runs the country.

> :> I'm impressed that you're able to determine a person's "heart-felt devotion"


> :> (or lack of the same) without ever meeting them, and only hearing what their
> :> speechwriters have written. You should sell courses in how to do that.

> : The only thing heart-felt about Lieberman is that he has found a Rabbi
> : that permits him to work on the Sabbath.

> : According to Orthodox Jews I know, no Jew is allowed to work for money on
> : the Sabbath, unless he is a doctor saving lives, or something very
> : similar.

> He has attended "emergency sessions" of the Senate, where
> decisions are made that can affect people as much as the things
> a doctor does. Other than that, he takes the day off. And when
> he does attend emergency sessions, he walks there!

That's *really* stretching it very far. Past the breaking point, since a
similar argument could then be made for lots of other things as
well. Which are not.

> Do you believe that attending National Security crisis
> meetings on a Saturday would be a similar "emergency?"

Immediate peril to life. I don't see it.

> : It is a crock of shit for Old Joe to claim that he has a "special
> : dispensation" to be a politician on the Sabbath. Of course, a Jew does not
> : have to be observant, but just like Clinton, Old Joe manages to talk out
> : of both sides of his mouth in claiming things that are false, because he
> : thinks it will give gim an advantage.

> He claims no such dispensation. He does not carry out
> political activities on Saturdays (or Friday evenings), e.g.,
> he does not and will not campaign. He participates in
> government functions only on the above "emergency" basis.

> Why do you believe he claims special dispensation?

Because he always refers to his "Washington Rabbi" as telling him it's ok.

It's a good thing he has one of those, since no other respectable orthodox
rabbi would give him such dispensations.

Susan Laxton

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
<li...@ork.net> wrote in message news:nFzo5.293$Og7....@news.shore.net...

> > Why do you believe he claims special dispensation?
>
> Because he always refers to his "Washington Rabbi" as telling him it's ok.
>
> It's a good thing he has one of those, since no other respectable orthodox
> rabbi would give him such dispensations.

He lives in Washington. Should he call his Rabbi his "Michigan Rabbi"?

li...@ork.net

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to

Clever, but I think you understand my point.

This position, that someone may violate the sabbath in order to vote, goes
against what the vast majority of orthodox rabbis and what jewish law law,
would say. So say my orthodox friends.

Of course, in an era in which Bill Clinton has redefined the meaning of
the word "is" in order to maintain that he did not perjure himself, I
guess this kind of revisionism is much easier to do. Certainly, liberal
Jews won't utter a peep.

Mike

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to

glitterboy wrote:
>
> I normally do not reply to the crap found in this forum, although I do read
> it. I make an exception for you.
>
> Where do you get your analysis abilities from? What sort of hatred filled
> environment were you dragged up during your formative years?
>
> Your rationale is full of shit - nothing less. People will vote Democrat
> this election, because the Republicans screwed up with having "Wimpy Bush"
> represent them. Get that racist shit about race and color out of your
> head - it makes you come across as another Texas Red Neck.

A self-hating racist Jewish redneck? Thats our Tracey!!!!

--
Mike

moo...@erols.com

"Hope? There's always hope, Mr.Farnsworth." -DB

*gmurphsniffle* <tm> & <c> 2000 Kiko Wu

Mike

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to

Spankster wrote:

>
> What kind of wacky weed have you been smoking??? LOL!!!
> What people? Texas is going to EASILY carry Bush in the elections.
> Along with many other states. Personally I know of only one person
> in my family that is voting Democrat. And that is my wife's Gramma
> and she is 88 years old and doesn't even know who is for what issue.

Neither do the RepubliKKKans other than Vote Rich/Right/White!!!

Merlin Dorfman

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
In ca.general MWSmith <m...@wt.net> wrote:

: clinton/gore are clueless. They've never had a real job in their
: lives.

Is Governor of Texas a real job? If not, W has never had a
real job in his life either.
Is Congresmen, Sec. of Defense, White House staffer a real
job? If not, Cheney has had a real job for less than eight
years.
Is being in the Army a real job? If not, Powell is out.


Merlin Dorfman

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
In ca.general Tracey-Levin <trac...@hotbot.com> wrote:
: Merlin, you're too smart to vote for algore!

What a witty response!


Merlin Dorfman

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
In ca.general li...@ork.net wrote:

:> Why do you believe he claims special dispensation?

: Because he always refers to his "Washington Rabbi" as telling him it's ok.

(1) That's not a special dispensation. It would be OK for
anybody.
(2) Jews don't really recognize the "authoority" of the
clergy, just their wisdom and erudition. Ultimately each Jew
makes his/her own decision based on individual conscience.


Merlin Dorfman

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
In ca.general Spankster <spank...@lurt.com> wrote:

: What kind of wacky weed have you been smoking??? LOL!!!
: What people? Texas is going to EASILY carry Bush in the elections.
: Along with many other states. Personally I know of only one person
: in my family that is voting Democrat. And that is my wife's Gramma
: and she is 88 years old and doesn't even know who is for what issue.

: She is doing it because she has always done it. heh heh heh
: (nobody dare tell her otherwise either).

I grew up in Montclair, NJ, at that time probably the most
Republican town in the world. Our neighbor told us that her
mother had complained that the elections were fixed--FDR had
been elected four times and she didn't know one person who had
voted for him even once.
So it depends on who you talk to...


Merlin Dorfman

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
In ca.general Bob <xmar...@swbell.net> wrote:
: , Adam Weiss <aw...@pdq.net> ,wrote :

:>I was a Democrat until Clinton lied, > in my living room, on my television.

: Adam - surely you are founded in more substance than you let on in the
: above statement. Every President has lied to the American People.
: Since I can't back that up, or don't want to go through the effort,
: I'll state this - every President since 1900 except maybe Jimmy Carter
: has OUTRIGHT lied to you. Those who you saw on the television lied and
: lied about far more serious issues that getting ones' rocks off.

And one of the more notable lies was George Bush's "I was
out of the loop" (on Iran-Contra).


Jeffrey E. Salzberg

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
In article <39A2C344...@hotbot.com>,
Tracey-Levin <trac...@hotbot.com> wrote:

> We don't need anymore dang liberals in office. They can't keep their
zippers
> up, and they are treasonous.


. . .Says, David, the idiot who claims to be both Christian and
American, yet consistently betrays the principles of both institutions.

Jeffrey E. Salzberg

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
In article <nFzo5.293$Og7....@news.shore.net>,
li...@ork.net wrote:

> It's a good thing he has one of those, since no other respectable
orthodox
> rabbi would give him such dispensations.

. . .At least partly because no rabbi *could*. Judaism is not a
hierarchical religion; no rabbi can intercede between a worshipper and
G-d.

Dave Anderson

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
Merlin Dorfman wrote:

> Is being in the Army a real job? If not, Powell is out.

If so, Gore is in.


--
Dave Anderson

Unsolicited commercial email will be read at a cost of $500 per message. Use
of this email address implies consent to these terms.


li...@ork.net

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
Merlin Dorfman <dor...@netcom7.netcom.com> wrote:
> In ca.general li...@ork.net wrote:

> :> Why do you believe he claims special dispensation?

> : Because he always refers to his "Washington Rabbi" as telling him it's ok.

> (1) That's not a special dispensation. It would be OK for
> anybody.

Actually, no, that would not be ok for anybody. It would be ok for a
non-jew, and it would be ok, at least according to the person himself, for
a nonreligious jew. However, for someone who claims to be what he is
claiming, it is definitely NOT ok, and most Jews do not believe that it's
ok to violate the sabbath to go vote somewhere.

> (2) Jews don't really recognize the "authoority" of the
> clergy, just their wisdom and erudition. Ultimately each Jew
> makes his/her own decision based on individual conscience.

That is quite false. I don't know where to begin to educate you, so I
added soc.culture.jewish, and perhas someone there will have the patience
to begin your education.

Nick R. Bokker

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
In article <5c45qs4a1hn0i470e...@4ax.com>,

Bob <xmar...@swbell.net> wrote:
> , Adam Weiss <aw...@pdq.net> ,wrote :
> >I was a Democrat until Clinton lied, > in my living room, on my
television.
>
> Adam - surely you are founded in more substance than you let on in the
> above statement. Every President has lied to the American People.
> Since I can't back that up, or don't want to go through the effort,
> I'll state this - every President since 1900 except maybe Jimmy Carter
> has OUTRIGHT lied to you. Those who you saw on the television lied and
> lied about far more serious issues that getting ones' rocks off.
>
And they've all been war criminals as well.

Albert Reingewirtz

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to

Only fanatical O's need a Rabbi to tell them what to do. The rest of
the Jews do very well deciding what to do, who to vote for. Jews never
had a Vatican. Orthodox Jews do: Brooklyn. Personally I won't vote for
Lieberman. I profoundly dislike this man. He is a moralizer who if
elected will get the USA a step closer to destroy the seperation of
church and state.

Professor Vonroach

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 18:30:43 GMT, li...@ork.net wrote:

>Because he always refers to his "Washington Rabbi" as telling him it's ok.
>

>It's a good thing he has one of those, since no other respectable orthodox
>rabbi would give him such dispensations.

Perhaps that is where he got the dispensation to boat down the
Mississippi campaigning on the Sabbath - and feasted on multiple
birthday cakes at the celebrations of Tipper's birthday which fell on
the Sabbath. It's ok to be polite - right.

Not Me

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to

Ed, are there ANY world leaders that were NOT war criminals in your
mind? Or, do you consider any leader that protects his country a war
criminal?

Professor Vonroach

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
On 22 Aug 2000 19:32:17 GMT, Merlin Dorfman
<dor...@netcom7.netcom.com> wrote:

>In ca.general MWSmith <m...@wt.net> wrote:
>
>: clinton/gore are clueless. They've never had a real job in their
>: lives.
>
> Is Governor of Texas a real job? If not, W has never had a
>real job in his life either.
> Is Congresmen, Sec. of Defense, White House staffer a real
>job? If not, Cheney has had a real job for less than eight
>years.

> Is being in the Army a real job? If not, Powell is out.

Poor Merlin flounders around in the Mississippi mud trying to find
good in the modern version of Tom algore and Huck lieberman.

I won't comment on your slander of businessmen, maybe you are just a
lawyer fan. (Is being a lawyer a real job?).

But it easy to see that you have never served in the military if you
have any question about that being a very real job crucial to the
defense and security of our country. Yes, Merly, the U. S. Army is a
real and very big job. It is a very serious job. If you have any
doubts at all feel free to visit the U. S. Military cemeteries around
the world. Perhaps you should start at Arlington at the Tomb of the
Unknown Soldier.

If the `real people' of the Mississippi are more to your taste just
visit the cemetery at Vicksberg, and learn what serious work is all
about.

Professor Vonroach

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
On 22 Aug 2000 19:35:01 GMT, Merlin Dorfman
<dor...@netcom7.netcom.com> wrote:

>Ultimately each Jew
>makes his/her own decision based on individual conscience.

There does seem to be a consensus on the Commandments and keeping the
Sabbath holy among many I observe.

Nick R. Bokker

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
In article <8jq5qsgudkbv2g6id...@4ax.com>,
War criminals are those who violate international conventions, like the
UN Charter, the Geneva Conventions, etc. You can match their actions to
the terms they violate. Recent actions like NATO's War (run by
Washington), the war against Iraq, the invasion of Panama, the proxy
war against Nicaragua, etc., were all against the rules established by
the UN. Previous administrations varied little from the script.

BJF

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to

Spanky <spank...@lurt.com> wrote in message
news:43Do5.8999$5F6.2...@news-west.usenetserver.com...
> In article <39A2D433...@erolsSUCKS.com>, Mike
<moo...@erolsSUCKS.com> wrote:

>
>
> >Spankster wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> What kind of wacky weed have you been smoking??? LOL!!!
> >> What people? Texas is going to EASILY carry Bush in the elections.
> >> Along with many other states. Personally I know of only one person
> >> in my family that is voting Democrat. And that is my wife's Gramma
> >> and she is 88 years old and doesn't even know who is for what issue.
> >
> >Neither do the RepubliKKKans other than Vote Rich/Right/White!!!
>
> Gee that is just so flipping original there guy! Wow.
>
> How about going a little deeper and giving us some real insights in your
> beliefs instead just a little mindless rhetoric that you got from somebody
> else?
>
> We are waiting...
All you'll probably get is some more redundant,old,worn out left wing
dribble.

>
> Spanky
>
>

Adam Weiss

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to

Bob wrote:
>
> , Adam Weiss <aw...@pdq.net> ,wrote :
> >I was a Democrat until Clinton lied, > in my living room, on my television.
>
> Adam - surely you are founded in more substance than you let on in the
> above statement. Every President has lied to the American People.
> Since I can't back that up, or don't want to go through the effort,
> I'll state this - every President since 1900 except maybe Jimmy Carter
> has OUTRIGHT lied to you. Those who you saw on the television lied and
> lied about far more serious issues that getting ones' rocks off.

All Presidents lie. What is campaigning but lying, in most cases? Not
all presidents lie in court and then repeat the same lies on television
to the American public. The key isn't that Clinton lied, it's that he
lied in court. Whether or not there's a moral difference, there's a
pretty big legal one. So far in the 20th century, only 2 presidents
have lied in court -- Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton.


>
> PS - This was not paid by any campaign fund.

Probably not.


>
> Cordially,
>
> Hugh Bob
> ---------
> In important ways, we are no different than the rats in the
> learned helplessness study. In this experiment, rats in a
> closed cage were made helpless by a series of hundreds of
> harmless yet scary shocks. When the wall separating them
> from escape was eventually removed, the rats remained and
> did not redress their defeated attitude. The rats quivered
> inside their cage living with their defeated attitude; they
> were bound by their learned helplessness.

--

Adam Weiss
w...@whazo.com

--

People in stone houses shouldn't throw glass.

--

MWSmith

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
On 22 Aug 2000 19:32:17 GMT, Merlin Dorfman
<dor...@netcom7.netcom.com> wrote:

>In ca.general MWSmith <m...@wt.net> wrote:
>
>: clinton/gore are clueless. They've never had a real job in their
>: lives.
>
> Is Governor of Texas a real job? If not, W has never had a
>real job in his life either.
> Is Congresmen, Sec. of Defense, White House staffer a real
>job? If not, Cheney has had a real job for less than eight
>years.
> Is being in the Army a real job? If not, Powell is out.

Yukk...

How do you get through life with such denial. Is your head buried in
the sand all the time or do you hang around with clinton's rear end?

You and everyone else reading this knows you are lying. Why do you act
the fool? Are you related to the lying cheating dirty-old-man?

Adam Weiss

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to

"Nick R. Bokker" wrote:
>
> In article <8jq5qsgudkbv2g6id...@4ax.com>,
> Not Me <not...@notme.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 20:21:42 GMT, Nick R. Bokker
> > <edix...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >
> > >In article <5c45qs4a1hn0i470e...@4ax.com>,

> > > Bob <xmar...@swbell.net> wrote:
> > >> , Adam Weiss <aw...@pdq.net> ,wrote :
> > >> >I was a Democrat until Clinton lied, > in my living room, on my
> > >television.
> > >>
> > >> Adam - surely you are founded in more substance than you let on in
> the
> > >> above statement. Every President has lied to the American People.
> > >> Since I can't back that up, or don't want to go through the effort,
> > >> I'll state this - every President since 1900 except maybe Jimmy
> Carter
> > >> has OUTRIGHT lied to you. Those who you saw on the television lied
> and
> > >> lied about far more serious issues that getting ones' rocks off.
> > >>

> > >And they've all been war criminals as well.
> > >
> > >
> > >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > >Before you buy.
> > Ed, are there ANY world leaders that were NOT war criminals in your
> > mind? Or, do you consider any leader that protects his country a war
> > criminal?
> >
> War criminals are those who violate international conventions, like the
> UN Charter, the Geneva Conventions, etc. You can match their actions to
> the terms they violate. Recent actions like NATO's War (run by
> Washington), the war against Iraq, the invasion of Panama, the proxy
> war against Nicaragua, etc., were all against the rules established by
> the UN. Previous administrations varied little from the script.

In diplomacy, at least in diplomacy both before and after the Cold War,
it's the first one to break the convention who is the war criminal. The
rest had to break it themselves in order to fight the first one. Look
at World War II, when Hitler broke the law by building an air force and
his neighbors had to quickly break the law as well to maintain their own
sovereignty; those close-by who didn't have time to build before the
nazis came promptly fell. Look at Desert Storm. Sadaam Hussein
initially broke international law by invading Kuwait before any American
soldiers killed Iraqis.

Lest you think I'm pointing only to partisan Republican wars, lets have
a look at Kosovo. Slobodan Milosovec broke commonly held rules of human
rights when he began to exterminate Albanians. The United States was
incensed to attempt to stop the violations. Of course, this is a vast
oversimplification of the situation, since it was (and is) a civil war
and not a case of a tyrant attempting to conquer the world.

>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.

--

glitterboy

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
You need to get out of Texas sometimes Jimbo! Bush will walk away with
Texas and the other red states. That aside, it is Gore all the way. Now I
know why you country boys feed the horses all day - you like smelling that
shit.

Go East or West my boy, and you will be in tune with America.

Vote Gore!

Peace.

Spankster <spank...@lurt.com> wrote in message
news:zwlo5.2053$5F6....@news-west.usenetserver.com...
> In article <8nsja0$19a6$1...@newssvr05-en0.news.prodigy.com>, "glitterboy"


<glitt...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> >I normally do not reply to the crap found in this forum, although I do
read
> >it. I make an exception for you.
> >
> >Where do you get your analysis abilities from? What sort of hatred
filled
> >environment were you dragged up during your formative years?
> >
> >Your rationale is full of shit - nothing less. People will vote Democrat
> >this election, because the Republicans screwed up with having "Wimpy
Bush"
> >represent them. Get that racist shit about race and color out of your
> >head - it makes you come across as another Texas Red Neck.
>

> What kind of wacky weed have you been smoking??? LOL!!!
> What people? Texas is going to EASILY carry Bush in the elections.
> Along with many other states. Personally I know of only one person
> in my family that is voting Democrat. And that is my wife's Gramma
> and she is 88 years old and doesn't even know who is for what issue.

> She is doing it because she has always done it. heh heh heh
> (nobody dare tell her otherwise either).
>

> I don't have any associate or friends that I know of that are claiming
> to vote Democrat. It is either for sure BUSH or "I don't know" but
> so far no "For sure Gore" 's.
>
> You practicing to be a comedian or do you really wear horse blinders?
>
> LOL
>
> Spanky
>
> >Peace - Vote Gore!
> >Tracey-Levin <trac...@hotbot.com> wrote in message
> >news:39A02314...@hotbot.com...
>
>

The Wizard of Oz

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
BJF wrote:

> All you'll probably get is some more redundant,old,worn out left wing
> dribble.

You may even get some left wing DRIVEL, as well!! LOL!

If all he gets is dribble, it ain't politics,
and he needs to see a doctor for some antibiotics!
Wiz

Bob

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/22/00
to
, Adam Weiss <aw...@pdq.net> ,wrote :

> Bob wrote:
> >
> > , Adam Weiss <aw...@pdq.net> ,wrote :
> > >I was a Democrat until Clinton lied, > in my living room, on my television.
> >

> All Presidents lie. What is campaigning but lying, in most cases?

Campaigning shouldn't be - but it is what you say it is. Yet,
candidates are not the President. I do believe that an elected
official should always be under oath when speaking to the American
people - that it should be implied by the office he holds. Yet Henry
Hyde stated on NPR just before the impeachment hearings (paraphrased -
but not inaccurately) "lying and deception are part and parcel of an
elected representative or official"

> all presidents lie in court and then repeat the same lies on television
> to the American public. The key isn't that Clinton lied, it's that he
> lied in court. Whether or not there's a moral difference, there's a
> pretty big legal one.

Lying in court I agree is a very bad thing. So is impeaching a
president for getting blow jobs in the while house. I have no affinity
for Pres. Clinton, but his lie in the court about an extra-marital
affair can in no way , imho, be construed as damning as any other
President has done.

You could call it timing or brashness or whatever, but typically
Presidents don't get called out on a sexual affair. If it wasn't about
sex, why was he forced to testify about sexual details?

And to point it out, when college kids were asked several questions
relating to sex, oral sex didn't seem to considered "sex." It was more
a step up to sex. Handing hands..kissing.. 69ing...then sex...

Now it sounded strange to me, but here is how the questions went. Anon
of course

1) How many sexual partners have you had
2) Do you consider masturbation sex?
3) do you consider anal sex, sex?
4) do you consider kissing sex?
5) in the response to number 1 did you include partners that you had
oral sex with?
(etc....)

it was just over 50% indicated from the response to questions 1 and 5
that they didn't consider oral sex.. sex.

My point is simply that I think he believed he could get away with it.
That his intent was to deceive, but that he was 'technically' correct.

>So far in the 20th century, only 2 presidents
> have lied in court -- Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton.

A truer statement would be - only these two presidents can be said to
be caught in lies in court.

> > PS - This was not paid by any campaign fund.
>
> Probably not.

I assure you!

> > Cordially,
> >
> > Hugh Bob
> > ---------


> --
> Adam Weiss
> w...@whazo.com
>
> --
>
> People in stone houses shouldn't throw glass.

What should people in stone houses do?

Nick R. Bokker

unread,
Aug 22, 2000, 9:13:30 PM8/22/00
to
In article
<F5620A2AF2E12FB1.3EA45B96...@lp.airnews.net>,

aw...@pdq.net wrote:
>
>
> "Nick R. Bokker" wrote:
> >
> > In article <8jq5qsgudkbv2g6id...@4ax.com>,
> > Not Me <not...@notme.com> wrote:
> > > On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 20:21:42 GMT, Nick R. Bokker
> > > <edix...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >In article <5c45qs4a1hn0i470e...@4ax.com>,
> > > > Bob <xmar...@swbell.net> wrote:
> > > >> , Adam Weiss <aw...@pdq.net> ,wrote :
> > > >> >I was a Democrat until Clinton lied, > in my living room, on
my
> > > >television.
> > > >>
If the US was incensed to stop violations of human rights in Kosovo,
why did they not do so, and in fact contribute to furthering them as
well as to add to them? And why at the same time did the US help
contribute to similar human rights violations in Turkey and Colombia at
the same time?
Ciminality does not equate with perceptions, diplomatic or otherwise.
Two wrongs continue to be both wrong.

Nick R. Bokker

unread,
Aug 23, 2000, 12:46:05 AM8/23/00
to
In article <9dj6qs8ma3ptbpg30...@4ax.com>,

Bob <xmar...@swbell.net> wrote:
> , Adam Weiss <aw...@pdq.net> ,wrote :
>
> > Bob wrote:
> > >
> > > , Adam Weiss <aw...@pdq.net> ,wrote :
<snip>

> > People in stone houses shouldn't throw glass.
>
> What should people in stone houses do?
>
Have a Yabba-Dabba Do time!

Merlin Dorfman

unread,
Aug 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/23/00
to
In ca.general Professor Vonroach <vonr...@popd.ix.netcom.com> wrote:

: But it easy to see that you have never served in the military if you


: have any question about that being a very real job crucial to the
: defense and security of our country. Yes, Merly, the U. S. Army is a
: real and very big job. It is a very serious job. If you have any
: doubts at all feel free to visit the U. S. Military cemeteries around
: the world. Perhaps you should start at Arlington at the Tomb of the
: Unknown Soldier.

So you are going to vote for Al Gore, the only one of the
four candidates for Pres/VP who has ever served on active duty
in any of the US armed forces. Glad to hear it!


Merlin Dorfman

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Aug 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/23/00
to
In ca.general MWSmith <m...@wt.net> wrote:
: On 22 Aug 2000 19:32:17 GMT, Merlin Dorfman
: <dor...@netcom7.netcom.com> wrote:

:>In ca.general MWSmith <m...@wt.net> wrote:
:>
:>: clinton/gore are clueless. They've never had a real job in their
:>: lives.
:>
:> Is Governor of Texas a real job? If not, W has never had a
:>real job in his life either.
:> Is Congresmen, Sec. of Defense, White House staffer a real
:>job? If not, Cheney has had a real job for less than eight
:>years.
:> Is being in the Army a real job? If not, Powell is out.

: Yukk...

: How do you get through life with such denial. Is your head buried in
: the sand all the time or do you hang around with clinton's rear end?

: You and everyone else reading this knows you are lying. Why do you act
: the fool? Are you related to the lying cheating dirty-old-man?

Would you care to point out which of my statements above is
a lie? That Bush is Governor of Texas? That Al Gore served in
the Army? That Cheney was a congressman, Secretary of Defense,
and White House staffer?


Merlin Dorfman

unread,
Aug 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/23/00
to
In ca.general li...@ork.net wrote:
: Merlin Dorfman <dor...@netcom7.netcom.com> wrote:
:> In ca.general li...@ork.net wrote:

:> (2) Jews don't really recognize the "authoority" of the
:> clergy, just their wisdom and erudition. Ultimately each Jew


:> makes his/her own decision based on individual conscience.

: That is quite false. I don't know where to begin to educate you, so I


: added soc.culture.jewish, and perhas someone there will have the patience
: to begin your education.

It is, of course, absolutely true. The rabbinate has
moral authority but ultimately each Jew makes his/her own
decision based on conscience. It is one of the things I
really like about the religion. You might want to start
reading soc.culture.jewish.moderated as it has a lot of
info on this kind of thing.


li...@ork.net

unread,
Aug 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/23/00
to

Of course you an always do whatever you want to do.

The point was that among those who claim to be orthodox, they do *not*
believe that they have the right to do whatever they want to do, and if
they are not certain, then they ask their local rabbi.

However, if their local rabbi gives an opinion which is at complete odds
with judaism, then obviously there's a problem there.

Simon

unread,
Aug 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/23/00
to
In article <MwVo5.38$uG....@news.shore.net>, li...@ork.net wrote:

> The point was that among those who claim to be orthodox, they do *not*
> believe that they have the right to do whatever they want to do, and if
> they are not certain, then they ask their local rabbi.
>
> However, if their local rabbi gives an opinion which is at complete odds
> with judaism, then obviously there's a problem there.

Sounds like you may think that Judaism is a dogmatic religion. Quite the
contrary, it is oriented to deed, rather than creed.

For example, this news item:

Lieberman's Sabbath Has Deep Spiritual Meaning
Saturday August 12 3:50 PM ET

By Alan Elsner, Political Correspondent

<http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000812/pl/campaign_sabbath_dc_2.html>

...

Lieberman has often spoken of how meaningful he finds the Sabbath. In a
1997 interview with Reuters, he said: ``It provides me ... with a sense
of sanctuary in my week which has become more important to me as I've
gone on in life and become busier.''

The Connecticut lawmaker will interrupt the Sabbath for Senate votes or
official business under a Jewish law known as ''Pikuach Nefesh,'' which
states that one can break any of the commandments to save a human life.

Rabbis interpret that liberally to say that one can engage in any
activity that will help others in important ways. That does not include
campaigning for office.

The first time he ran for the Senate in 1988, Lieberman did not show up
for his own nominating convention because it was on a Saturday. He sent
a video instead.

``He does not do political things, he doesn't do campaigning on the
Sabbath, which means, in effect, that you have a politician to whom
politics is not the most important thing in his life,'' said Rabbi Barry
Freundel of Kesher Israel synagogue in Washington, where Lieberman is a
member.

##

Also, this recent AP story retells an interesting anecdote:

Many Jewish 'Firsts' in U.S. Govt.
Friday August 18 1:45 AM ET

<http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20000818/el/jewish_political_figures_1.h
tml>

By JULIA LIEBLICH, AP Religion Writer

NEW YORK (AP) - Vice presidential hopeful Joseph Lieberman isn't the
first Jewish political figure to face questions about how he would carry
out his duties on holy days. Legend has it that George Washington
appealed for funds to financier Haym Salomon on the highest of holy
days, Yom Kippur.

Salomon, it is said, suspended services in the synagogue upon learning
of the desperate request, secured pledges from congregants and then
proceeded with observances.

``The story has a ring of credibility,'' says Michael Feldberg, director
of the American Jewish Historical Society in New York.

The Polish-born Salomon contributed much of his own fortune to help
finance the American Revolution, found buyers for unsecured bonds issued
by the fledgling U.S. government and lent money to members of the
Continental Congress. During the British occupation of New York, twice
he was arrested as a spy and imprisoned. He died penniless in 1785,
having never held a government position.

It would be many years before Jews would make inroads politically. Well
into the 19th century, laws in many places said no person could hold
public office without taking an oath affirming the divinity of Jesus.
(Salomon, who served on the governing council of a Philadelphia
synagogue, helped repeal that city's test oath.)

<...snip>

Anti-Semitism has been on the decline for the past two decades,
according to polls taken by the American Jewish Committee and others.

Nonetheless, Feldberg says, many Americans ``have an innocent
ignorance'' about what it means to be Jewish - an ignorance Lieberman's
selection is already helping to dispel by his open expression of his
faith.

Soon, says Feldberg, everyone will know what Jews do on the Sabbath.
--
Do not write to spam-blocking posting address -- it is infrequently checked.

Write to "simon" at "howsthat.com"

li...@ork.net

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Aug 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/23/00
to
In nyc.general Simon <simons@spamoff_who.net> wrote:
>> However, if their local rabbi gives an opinion which is at complete odds
>> with judaism, then obviously there's a problem there.

> Sounds like you may think that Judaism is a dogmatic religion. Quite the
> contrary, it is oriented to deed, rather than creed.

> For example, this news item:

> Lieberman's Sabbath Has Deep Spiritual Meaning
> Saturday August 12 3:50 PM ET

> By Alan Elsner, Political Correspondent

> <http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000812/pl/campaign_sabbath_dc_2.html>

> Lieberman has often spoken of how meaningful he finds the Sabbath. In a

> 1997 interview with Reuters, he said: ``It provides me ... with a sense
> of sanctuary in my week which has become more important to me as I've
> gone on in life and become busier.''

> The Connecticut lawmaker will interrupt the Sabbath for Senate votes or
> official business under a Jewish law known as ''Pikuach Nefesh,'' which
> states that one can break any of the commandments to save a human life.

> Rabbis interpret that liberally to say that one can engage in any
> activity that will help others in important ways. That does not include
> campaigning for office.

This also does not include routine voting that a politician does.

There is no immediate danger to life that is alleviated by him going and
casting a vote.

To repeat: He has made many compromises, and should have the honesty to
admit that he is not orthodox, but reform or conservative, or whatever
branch of judaism permits more of a choice as to what one wishes to do.

But he wants it all, and in that respect, he is like Clinton--brazen and
brazening it out.

Aimless

unread,
Aug 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/23/00
to

"Jeffrey E. Salzberg" <salz...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8numn1$9tg$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

> In article <nFzo5.293$Og7....@news.shore.net>,
> li...@ork.net wrote:
>
> > It's a good thing he has one of those, since no other respectable
> orthodox
> > rabbi would give him such dispensations.
>
> . . .At least partly because no rabbi *could*. Judaism is not a
> hierarchical religion; no rabbi can intercede between a worshipper and
> G-d.
>
Exactly! Rabbi means teacher. Not leader! Not ruler! Not go between! He
instructs his congregation as to the teachings and interpretations of
Judaism.

BTW, I met a guy at Half-Priced Books that was attending Seminar here in
Dallas. He said to me that they had been studying the great rabbis in one
of his classes. His comment/question to me was that there seemed to me many
opinions about every issue, but no consensus. I had to giggle at that.

I told what our rabbi in Beaumont once said about the crucifixion of Jesus.
He said, "It would have taken a unanimous vote of the Sanhedren, and you
couldn't get that many Jews to agree on what to have for dinner, much less
who should live and who should die."

My point is there are as many opinions about what Judaism is and is not and
allows and does not as there are Jews at the very least.

-- Aimless

In the beginning was The Word,
and The Word was Chocolate.
And The Word became flesh, and dwelt upon us forever.
~ Confections 1oz:360cal


Aimless

unread,
Aug 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/23/00
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The Sabbath does not require you to fast. Yom Kippur does, but not Shabbot.

-- Aimless

In the beginning was The Word,
and The Word was Chocolate.
And The Word became flesh, and dwelt upon us forever.
~ Confections 1oz:360cal

"Professor Vonroach" <vonr...@popd.ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:39a9e975...@NNTP.ix.netcom.com...


> On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 18:30:43 GMT, li...@ork.net wrote:
>
> >Because he always refers to his "Washington Rabbi" as telling him it's
ok.
> >

> >It's a good thing he has one of those, since no other respectable
orthodox
> >rabbi would give him such dispensations.
>

Simon

unread,
Aug 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/23/00
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In article <FQWo5.47$uG....@news.shore.net>, li...@ork.net wrote:

> To repeat: He has made many compromises, and should have the honesty to
> admit that he is not orthodox, but reform or conservative, or whatever
> branch of judaism permits more of a choice as to what one wishes to do.
>
> But he wants it all, and in that respect, he is like Clinton--brazen and
> brazening it out.

Again, as you seemingly haven't spent much time studying the streams of
Jewish beliefs, allow me to offer a background on "Orthodoxy:"

<http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Judaism/Orthodox.html>

Orthodox Judaism is not a unified movement with a single governing body,
but many different movements adhering to common principles. All of the
Orthodox movements are very similar in their observance and beliefs,
differing only in the details that are emphasized. They also differ in
their attitudes toward modern culture and the state of Israel. They all
share one key feature: a dedication to Torah, both Written and Oral.

Origins of the Movement

Historically, there was no such thing as Orthodoxy; in fact, you find
the particular term is used primarily in North America (elsewhere the
distinction is primarily between "more observant" and "less observant").
The specific term "Orthodox Judaism" is of rather recent origin and is
used more as a generic term to differentiate the movements following
traditional practices from the Liberal Jewish movements.

##


Granted, there is an Orthodox Union <www.ou.org> -- on whose Board,
Senator Lieberman sits. There is, however, no *single* Orthodox coda
which the Senator must follow in order to call himself an Orthodox Jew.

In fact, your claims are precisely what Rabbi Raphael Grossman, the
previous President of the Rabbinical Council, warns against:

<...>

"Suddenly, the media began to blitz with definitions of Judaism and
Orthodoxy.  Rabbis were interviewed (I must have received some twenty
calls.)  "How can he be a heartbeat away from the presidency if he
doesn't ride, use the phone or write on the Sabbath?"  "If he became
President, would the White House have to be koshered?"  Please, I beg
you, don't justify or condone these queries.  They all have an odious
smell.  Such questions really ask, "Can anyone whose religious practices
are different from the majorities lead us?" 

<snip>

Even worse, some Jews question the Judaism of Gore's choice: "He is not
really Orthodox."  "He doesn't always wear a yarmulka, or keep Shabbos
in full accordance with Hallacha."  And on the other hand, there are
those who feel embarrassed with Senator Lieberman's Orthodoxy and the
"to-do" in the media about it.  As Jews and as Americans, we  should
insist that people vote their conscience and make their determinations
based upon the issues and the candidates views and past record.  All
else is an assault to democracy and an insult to what I still believe is
the land of the free and the home of a people brave enough to free
themselves from the age-old pestilence of hate and prejudice."

<http://www.ou.org/torah/grossman/>

Simon

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Aug 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/23/00
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In article <vpu8qssjft4ibjm0o...@4ax.com>, Joe Slater
<joeDEL...@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au> wrote:

> I can't see any inherent problem with it, and I'm Orthodox. It's
> arguably "weekday behavior" and discourageable on those grounds, but
> not inherently forbidden. In any event, who cares?

Apparently, Liam does -- although he's not Orthodox, he seems it
necessary to speak for those who are, gaining some intimate
understanding of mitzvoht through his many Orthodox Jewish acquaintances
(aka "The orthodox Jews that I know")

Clearly, he is the appropriate authority to decide whether Senator
Lieberman really is Orthodox or just "pretending."

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