sharing with the group for comments on distortions in Indology

[Lata Shenava]

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We are working on an open architecture of knowledge systems at IIT  Bombay (some faculty members at IITB are cced) . A common problem that I find is the interpretation of certain Indic concepts in the translation done by Indologists. Not being a sanskrit or Vedic Scholar,  we are looking to the group for assistance in placing the right understanding of our shastras to the average reader. While distortion and deliberate misinterpretation is common across all our texts and literature, I will mention here certain translations that use words that are meant to create newer understanding or associations that fulfill a certain agenda of the translator.

Apart from the introduction of Christian concepts like forgiveness and Sins and fulfillment of wishes (accompanied by a list of desirables, which are primarily necessary appurtenances for Vedic sacrifices) into the Dharmic narrative, below is the translation of a few verses. I have highlighted the phrases below that seem distorted.  

lata shenava, Ph.D.

Fulbright Scholar,

Research Scientist, IIT-B, EI-Certified Therapist, Consultant, Trainer & Life Coach.

"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us most. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, and famous?' Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that people won't feel insecure around you. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It's not just in some of us; it's in all of us. And when we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others."......Marianne Williamson

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1)   The Sita Upanishad (Sanskrit: सीता उपनिषत्) is a medieval era Sanskrit text and a minor Upanishad of Hinduism. It is attached to the Atharva Veda,[3][2] and is one of the nine Shakta Upanishads.[4] It is categorized as a late Upanishad,[5] in which goddess Sita is extolled as the Ultimate Reality of the Universe (Brahman), the ground of Being (Spirituality), and material cause behind all manifestation.[1] The Upanishad identifies Sita with primordial Prakriti (nature) and her three powers, asserts the text, are manifested in daily life as will (ichha), action (kriyā) and knowledge (jnana).[7][5]

 

This Upanishad is notable for asserting that the cosmos is Atman (soul), it resides in the heart, its awareness and self-realization emerges by Vichara (investigation into the Self) and Samadhi, the ultimate stage of meditation.[1][8]

History

The author and the century in which Sita Upanishad was composed is unknown. The text was likely composed, in the same period as other Shakta Upanishads, between the 12th- and 15th-century CE (which means that this Upanishad is post the arab invasions) [1] Even though this text is of relatively late origin, Sita as goddess is traceable to 1st-millennium BCE Hindu texts and the Epic Ramayana (this statement is contradictory ).[2]

Manuscripts of this text are also found titled as Sitopanishad.[10][3] In the Telugu language anthology of 108 Upanishads of the Muktika canon, narrated by Rama to Hanuman, it is listed at number 45.[12]

 

the rest is translated well, i think, left it there for you'll to read, its beautifully explained!

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and they say women are denigrated  in our culture

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Contents

The Upanishad has 37 verses in one chapter and is narrated as a discourse between Prajapati and the gods, the latter eager about "Who is Sita? What is her nature?"[13]

Prajapati describes Sita as primal Prakriti, or primordial nature.[14][15] She is, asserts the text, same as Lakshmi and the Shakti (energy and power) of Vishnu.[15][4] The text references and uses fragments of hymns in the Vajasaneyi Samhita of Yajurveda, asserting the goddess to manifest all the times as "will, action and knowledge" that drives change in the universe,[4][5] wherein everything, the empirically observed and the transcendental reality, is manifestation of her Being.[1][15]

Sita is all of creation, the good and the bad, all the gods and the demons, the cause and the effect, the material and the spiritual, the virtue and the beauty.[13][15] Her quality includes the changing reality (Maya, metaphysical illusion),[4] and the unchanging reality without a second (Brahman, metaphysical constant).[1][15] She is free from change. She has no blemishes. She represents the vocal form of the four Vedas, which the text asserts comes from 21 schools of Rigveda, 109 schools of Yajurveda, 1000 schools of Samaveda, and 40 schools of Atharvaveda.[15] She is ethics, tradition, law, legend, and the five minor Vedas, asserts the text, naming these as architecture, archery, music, medicine and Daivika (divinity).[15] She is the basis of the whole world, is composed of Brahma Vishnu and Shiva, and she is the soul (inner self, Atman) that resides in all livings.[15]

Who is Sita? <poem> सा देवी त्रिविधा भवति शक्त्यासना इच्छाशक्तिः क्रियाशक्तिः साक्षाच्छक्तिरिति

That divine Being is threefold, through her power, namely, the power of desire, the power of action, the power of knowledge. </poem>

Shri Rudram Chamakam

A few hymns (Biblical should be verses?) of Shri Rudram are shown and explained below ^[8][9]

• Original text (TS iv.5.5) 5th Anuvaka

namo bhavāya cha rudrāya cha

namaḥ śarvāya cha paśupataye cha

namo nīlagrīvāya cha śitikaṇṭhāya cha

namaḥ kapardine cha vyuptakeshāya cha

namaḥ sahasrākṣāya cha śatadhanvane cha

namo girīśāya cha śipiviṣṭāya cha

• English Translation:

Prostration to the one who is the most dear (pleasant), to the one who is the most dreaded terroriser (frightening).

Prostration to the one who kills living beings with arrows, to the Lord (benefactor) of all living beings.

Prostration to the blue-necked one (disfigured (discoloured) naturally), to the one with whitened throat (throat smeared with Bhasma (ash); disfigured (discoloured) artificially).

Prostration to the wearer of matted tangled locks of hair, to him of shaven beard.

Prostration to him of a thousand eyes (view from one point to everywhere), to him who has the capability of hundred bowmen (view from everywhere to one point - concentration of the view from all directions).^[10][11]

Prostration to the Lord of mountains (conjoint into a mass), and to him who is all pervasive (disjoint and diffusing everywhere).

^[12] 

• Rudra the vedic deity is the personification of 'terror'. Rudra comes from 'Ru' meaning '"Roar or Howl" (the words 'dreaded' or 'fearsome' could only be used as adjectives to Rudra and not as Rudra, because Rudra is the personification of terror); 'dra' is a superlative meaning 'the most'. So Rudra, depending on the poetic situation, can be meant as 'the most severe roarer/howler' - could be a hurricane or tempest - or 'the most frightening one'.^[15]

please note that 75-80% of the translations are by Westerners, and even if Indians would refer to Indology translations. Very few go to the primary sources or to authenctic translations done by Western scholars. 

lata shenava, Ph.D.

Fulbright Scholar,

Research Scientist, IIT-B, EI-Certified Therapist, Consultant, Trainer & Life Coach.

"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us most. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, and famous?' Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that people won't feel insecure around you. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It's not just in some of us; it's in all of us. And when we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others."......Marianne Williamson

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[Bvk sastry]

Namaste

 Nice to see the Technology institute taking a shot at  ' Traditional Knowledge Systems' and address the dimensions of dilutions and indology centric distortions. Here below are my notes shared. 

I am open to be a member of the team in this engagement and stretch this debate to the human space across globe . The reframing would be why Indology beyond India?  But the framework of dialogue needs to be clearly identified and demarcated for deliverables, audience and further connections to answer w- and why- how- questions.

Here are some concept options to explore: 

Option A:   The exercise to address  < right understanding of our shastras to the average reader> is a loaded statement. 

Traditionally and conceptually <Shaastra> is < Application of Darshana , contextually and purposively through Yoga>. Traditional method and pedagogy to address this issue was grooming the child through family and community models - living tradition and samskaras. Having got this segment disturbed due to globalization and urbanization , what will be the goal aimed in this Open Architecture? 

Option B: The exercise to address <common problem ... interpretation of certain Indic concepts in the translation done by Indologists. >  

This is an academic dialogue demanding  participation of Scholars and Stake holders in Tradition by Practice- Identity-Pride and Prejudice mixed together. 

This is not the audience of <average reader> who needs a satisfying faith -logic blended explanation to stick on to practice. All those who subscribe to Gita philosophy and guidance may not get a scientific explanation of How Sri Krishna presented Viswaroopa , how remote live narration of mahbharata war was delivered to the blind king in palace. There is an unspecified blend of philosophy, mysticism and continuing threads of belief. 

So what is to be filtered and graded in re- feeding Gita to the average reader and beat the Gita presentations through media- entertainment channels? 

Option C:  on <English Translation:>

If only one has time to review the reverse process- Sanskrit translation of Holy Bible - available now for 150 plus years; and motivations behind it; the pathetic output , the need to revisit the lexicography related to Sanskrit vocabulary before getting on to more complex issue of ' Indic Language Translation' would be understood. 

To address challenges of lexicography , one needs to work with Samskruth Language Grammar traditions as Vedanga sysrem. To learn what is veda-anga, one must have a clarity on what ' vedas' are. 

To have clarity on what vedas are, one needs to look at Dharma-Shaastras ( and not social history).

In the current scenario, i am yet to meet with teams who have clarity and transparent connectivity on these issues ( except some old school traditionalists; who are not welcome to any of modern deliberations. Many are happy and prefer to get more ' likes' on social media and feel happy in reposting and tweeting beaten issues?!) 

This challenge of Translation across the languages is a bigger issue in Machine Translation projects and Computational Linguistics. This demands a clarity on Language Modeling concepts and what constitutes a < Sacred Spiritual Language:: Daivee bhashaa> standards . It may not be out of context to draw attention to the Language- memory and understanding- Consciousness models studied by advanced schools in Physics; to see potentials of building a universal programming language for Robotics.  This is where Sanskrit as language of indic traditions are engaged in technology institutes; and not for a social transformation deliverables. 

This area carries only select group special interest engagements and falls outside the reach of ordinary reader.

It would help many like me, if the clarity on these points are provided, so that the teamed exercise can stay focussed and deliver purposefully.  It is a call to be clear on VINIYOGA - Application benefit for target audience ( -  as told by Dr, Yadu Moharir; an answer to the question: kasmai devaaya havishaa vidhema - as Rigveda asks). 

If more detailing needed, please contract me off line. 

BVK Sastry

Yoga-Samskrutham University

Sent from my iPhone

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

Dr Lata Shenava-ji,

Can you more clearly explain to us about What help you are asking for from the scholars of BVP in this regard ?

Do you doubt the validity of the date given to the Upanishad? 

 Are the following your statements? 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

[Sivasenani Nori]

Dr. Lata Shenava

You are in an interesting space. As Prof. Paturi suggested, a rich discussion might ensue if the issue is clearly delimited and framed.

There are a few words / sentences in red, which pertain to paurusheyatva of the particular text. W.r.t. Veda including the "principal Upanishads", this issue has been well discussed - both in ancient literature and modern academic writing. The non-principal Upanishads are trickier to deal with. For instance the famous chant " Hare Rama Hare Krishna" is from the KalisantaaraNopanishad, which is viewed very favourably in most traditions. Is it considered as Sruti? I have not particularly heard the asertion but would expect it to be treated as such. On the other hand, there is an Allopanishad, which would not be considered as Sruti by most Aryas (respected people - there is no word "Aryan" in Sanskrit). So one issue would be whether Sitopanishad is Sruti or not.

The three-fold division of Sakti in the other highlighted portion is interesting. In Tantra the three Saktis are icchaa, kriyaa and jnaana. In Statecraft, one comes across prabhuSakti, mantraSakti and utsAhaSakti. The translation itself is alright. I am not sure as to what you intend to discuss here.

Regarding the translation of Rudram, the bias is obvious. If you want the traditional interpretations, etymologies from Niruktam, Sayanacarya etc. could be discussed. 

Also there is one convention of using "hymn" for a Sukta and "verse" for a Rk, but hymn as such is not usually objected to. Some prefer to use the Sanskrit words as they are, it must be said.

Regards

N. Siva Senani