Apaurusheyatva of Vedas

[gira...@juno.com]

Feb. 5, 2011

 

Respected Scholars, Namaskar!

 

Please understand that I am not here to demote importance of Vedas. But I like many who are not Vedic scholars struggle to come to an correct understanding of certain verses from Vedas. There are great Vedic scholars on this list. So I thought that I will ask few questions. With their noble minds they will forgive me for my ignorance.

 

 Here is my information. Please correct me if I were wrong. (1) There are river names in Vedas from the northwestern part of the subcontinent bordering Afghanistan. (2)There is name Parikhit in Atharva Veda. (3) In Rigveda there is a verse describing war of Indra with Abalaa senaa of Namuchi. He defeated lady soldiers of Namuchi and kept two lady soldiers for him.(I have no references at hand).

 

In the PDF file posted sometime ago on this list there was article of Prof Pralhadachar. In that article it was presented that the sequence of phonemes in Vedas is not created by human sages. It is eternal from creation to creation. Sages only read them, do not create them. If this is true then why eternal Vedas (existent versions) carry geographical information of the particular area of the earth (northwestern part of the subcontinent bordering Afghanistan) and river names therein?

If these names are the sequences of phonemes as errors in readings of sages with their internal eyes, then we do not have the original they read from to prove that these are errors.

If we assume these are not errors then Vedas become paurusheya. If we assume these are errors, there is no way to check the original to prove that. We are in the loop as described by Shree Pratosh.

 

Note: My historical research shows to me that ladies kingdom was in the north of Afghanistan. There is description of war of ten kings. Indra's kingdom was in the area of Pamir mountains. Indra had wife Shachi, daughter of Puloma. He had son by the name Jayanta. If we accept all this is Arthavaada according to Mimaamsaa, then there is no question.

 

The question then shifts to the science of performing Yajnyas as described in Vedas. We have seen on this list how difficult is the subject of Vedic Yajnya with or without animal sacrifice.Until now nobody described on this list meaning of the Sarpa-satra of Janamejaya in which Indra along with Takshaka were pulled down to fall in the fire of Yajnya. Is Indra from Vedas different from Indra of Sarpa-satra of Janamejaya? If this is Arthavaada, no further question.

 

No body denies that Vedas have great moral principles and original ideas about creation and the creator. From that point of view their importance for the whole humanity is beyond dispute.Please enlighten us so that we grow with you in our knowledge. I have no intention to hurt emotions of anybody. Take this as debate. Thanks. N.R.Joshi.

 

____________________________________________________________
Kill Your Wrinkles
Mom Reveals Shocking $5 method for erasing wrinkles...Doctors hate her
Channel9.com

[Sivasenani Nori]

Sir

 

I do not know about sarpa-satra (that is not the full details, I do know that it was conducted by Janamajeya), but there is a yajña called SyenayAga which is discussed quite extensively in mimAmsA texts. This is performed to destroy one's enemies and that is a perfectly legitimate aim. Only not being arthavat - that is not being beneficial - it and other such yajñas are excluded from the scope of dharma (which is otherwise described as 'yAgAdireva dharmah'). These yAgas are not arthavAdas - they have a vidhi and all subsidiaries thereof.

 

For the other questions, I am not eligible to talk about them, at least not yet.

 

Regards

N. Siva Senani

2011/2/5 gira...@juno.com <gira...@juno.com>

--
अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि।
ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः।
निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)

[Prathosh]

Dear Shri N.R Joshi,

In spite of being amidst a vigorous preparation for GATE exam, I could
not resist to answer your post.

>>If this is true then why eternal Vedas (existent versions) carry geographical information of the particular area of the earth (northwestern part of the subcontinent bordering Afghanistan) and river names therein?

This question can be answered in two ways..

1) There is something called " एकवाक्यता " of Vedas, which means all
the Veda vakyas are attributed directly to "Brahmhan" ( = Vishnu for
Vaishnavas ). Shri Madwacharya has nicely proved this fact in many of
his works like Rigbhashya, BramhasutraBhasya etc. Thus, all Veda
vakyas directly say some "guna" or attribute of Bramha be it
apparently pointing to Indra killing Vrutra, or a description of river
or any other geographical or physical matters. To know some examples,
refer Rigbhashya of Shri. Madwacharya. Shrutis like " सर्वे वेदाः
सर्वे घोषाः एकैव व्याहृति: " , "नामानि सर्वाणि यमाविशन्ति " and many
Smritis, Many Adhikaranas in Bramha Sutra substantiate this thing.
So, even without the geographical areas being non-eternal, Vedas can
be eternal which describes "Bramhan" by those words.

2) In the Bhasya of sutra in Devataadhikarana of Bramha sutra -"शब्द
इति चेन्नात: प्रभावात् प्रत्यक्षानुमानाभ्याम्", Shri. Madwacharya
deals with a similar question and answers like this --

The creator creates this world in each Kalpa over and again in the
same way it is now. Thus, though the the geographical structures and
Devas are not eternal they possess something called "Pravaahatha
Nityatva", which means at any given point of time a Deva by name
"Indra" exists. ( Please note its not the same person who is Indra all
the time ). Thus the rivers and all will be in the same way always. "
धाता यथा पूर्वं अकल्पयत्" " तस्मात् ननीद्रुशं क्वापि
विश्वमेतद्भविश्यति " These shrutis also say the same thing.


>>If these names are the sequences of phonemes as errors in readings of sages with their internal eyes, then we do not have the original they read from to prove that these are errors.If we assume these are not errors then Vedas become paurusheya. If we assume these are errors, there is no way to check the original to prove that. We are in the loop as described by Shree Pratosh

Glad that you see a question there. This question is accepted and I am
working on it and soon will come up with an answer, if God is willing
so. Right now, I think the route of "Praamanya Swatastva" can be taken
to answer it. I will post it once I get myself convinced completely.

>> No body denies that Vedas have great moral principles and original ideas about creation and the creator.

True. But the very existence of creator can be proved ONLY by an
absolute Praamana or absolutely credible source which can only be an
"Apourusheya" scripture which is absolutely credible. If not, there
are so many authored scriptures in the world which claim atheism or
depict the creator in wrong ways. The fact that the creator can be
cognized only through Vedas has been nicely explained in the
शास्त्रयोनित्वाधिकरण of Bramha sutras. So, one needs to first prove
the Apourusheyatva or inerrancy of Vedas. Shri.Madwacharya has fairly
proved it in one of his works Vishnu Tatva Vinirnaya.

Iti Sajjana Vidheya

Prathosha