Do we value Sankara?

[Anil Narayanan]

Namaste..
     Pls. see the attached. AISF ( a leftist youth organisation) is protesting against building the statue of Sankaracharya at the new entrance of Sree Sankaracharya University, Kalady, Kerala. They are celebrating it as a day against Hindutva. Actually are such protests are protests against our own tradition? Sankara has at least written glosses for prasthanatraya. He is regarded as Acharya and not as a teacher. It is said that the Guruparampara  starting from Sadaashiva reaches us through Sankara.  The one and only one university of Sanskrit in Kerala goes by his name. Still, the protestors say they wont allow to build the statue of Sankara. Tomorrow, these protestors may crave for building statues for Carl Marx, Max Muller etc. in Sankaracharya university itself. Ofcourse, Marx and Muller may be reputed. But one should first of all bow their heads before their own ancestry. If Sankaracharya university and Kerala can not stand for Sankara, who else? If Indians do not respect Sankara, who else? I would like to know the opinions of the reputed scholars in this regard. If this forum does not permit the discussion ( regarding it as political and not as academic) , please feel free to write personally.
  Thanking you,
  Anil.

[Shrivathsa B]

hariH OM,
shrii anil,

   It is disheartening and alarming. The reason for this is the lack of common purpose and unity among Hindus. The dwindling Hindu numbers in Kerala is also a great cause of alarm.

   I can pray to bhagavaan that well meaning people like you increase in the state.

   There is nothing much for scholars to debate on this. Almost everyone here will agree with you and share your pain. A reply to a street protest is either a government crack down or a counter protest. As the government is not favourable, you will have to think about a street protest only.

svasti,
      bhavaaniibhaaratii jayatetamaam,
                                                       shrivathsa.

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[Dr.S.R.Leela(MLC)]

 What business AISF has to protest against Shankara ? They do not take note of nearly 5000 Kerala youth converted to Islam and many of them heading towards ISIS. Protest is Clearly biased and blatantly anti India. Thanks mr.Anil for noticing and posting this . I do not see any politics here. Facts need to be seen as facts.

Leela

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[Ravi Khangai]

statue should come up

"My heart is so full of love for God, that there is no space left for the hatred of Satan"- Rabia, 8th century Sufi.

-Dr. Ravi Khangai, Assistant Professor, P.G.T.D. History, RTM Nagpur University, Nagpur, Maharashtra-440033

Mo- 8446000912, 9665575896

Adjunct Faculty

Hindu University of America

5200 Vineland Road, Suite 120, Orlando, FL 32811, USA. 

[rniyengar]

Just because some people protest the authorities should not give up the erection of the statue. If you have any apprehensions about this, please start a campaign on Change.org. Not only BVP members but others also in hundreds if not thousands will sign supporting the Memorial, at SSU Kalady.

RNI

[Kuldeep Kumar]

This is another proof of intellectual bankruptcy of AISF. They should  know that sankar has given a philosophy of one reality which prevails in every atom of the creation.If his birthplace and University standing for his philosophy and scholarship cannot have his statue at its intrance,should we expect it anywhere else.If they continue with these unmindful tactics,soon they may loose their ground. A wide awareness compaign for this must be launched. 

Thanks Mr. Anil for noticing and posting it.I do not see any point in this protest.University may approach to the court.

Kuldeep kumar

K. Kumar

[Nagaraj Paturi]

They know that this is going to be failing, as it can not stand any legal scrutiny. A university in the name of a personality builds the statue of that personality on or near its premises. It has every right to do so. They know this.

This is just a publicity stunt.

Since they are loosing their ground in terms of their original Marxist philosophy, they are searching for new stunts such as these.

Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

[Shrinivasa Varakhedi]

Dear Members,

I second the opinion expressed by Prof. Iyengar. Sri Anil or someone can make a petition in change.org. lets support it. let is be in public place. BVP is a closed list, where public participation is less. BVP expresses its solidarity and wholehearted support. Too much discussion without any action will not help us. This does not need a debate but action. 

with best regards,

shrivarahedi

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warm regards,
shri.varakhedi
-----------------------------------------
Prof. Shrinivasa Varakhedi, Ph.D
(Recipient of Presidents Award)

Professor in Shastra and Dean (Academics)

Karnataka Samskrita University,

Pampa Mahakavi Road, Chamaraj Pet,

Bengaluru - 560018

Mobile : +91-94853-01353
Ph Off :  +91-80-26705596
Land Res: +91-80-26794258

Former Director, Sanskrit Academy, 

Osmania University, Hyderabad 07

Former Faculty of Rashtriya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth, Tirupati.

[Ganesh R]

Dear friends,

I completely agree with Prof. Varakhedi sir and Prof. Iyengar sir. Yes, it's time for action. If Sri Shankara bhagavtapaada's statue is not allowed in his own birth place and in the very university campus which is named after him, what else to be needed? Excluding him, can any one imagine classical Sanskrit studies in general and  Indian philosophy in particular? Such puujyapuujaavyatikrama has be condemned in any domain of Indian learning.

Regards

Ganesh

[BVKSastry(Gmail)]

Namaste

 

On   Shatavadhani Ganesh  < Yes, it's time for action.  > , and  Professor . Varkhedi < BVP is a closed list, .. BVP expresses its solidarity and wholehearted support. >  The ‘ respect’ needs to get in to action when ‘ respect is overshot’. (Gita wisdom: 1-36) in ‘A-Dharmic way’.

1. Writing petitions can create an awareness in a widespread way, but generates no tangible action.

2. The matter is important and sensitive beyond the limited interest of ‘Sanskrit group’ or a ‘select community interest’. The issue is to  be seen and projected as ‘ Disrespect to  representation of  National Heritage and Religious harmony under fundamental rights covered  by the constitution and university act,  at a Premier institute of dedicated nature, whose vision and mission can not preclude the  establishment of a commemoration Statue of Principle Founder of School, whose name the institution bears’.

3.  A similar situation had occurred in Kaladi  some time, probably  a decade back. The small hillock trusted by tradition as the ‘ Shankaracharya mountain’ was commercially invaded by a special interest group. The issue became international . The then chief of Chinmaya mission intervened and took over the ‘ entire place with the commercial  muscle power’, as it was too difficult to fight the issue politically and community wise.

  (  Note:   For an understanding the criticality of   this issue and the History related  ‘portrayal of Adi Shankaras date in Kerala  : 700 AD or 1500 BCE  debate, read : http://discipleofnasrani.blogspot.in/2009/07/shankaracharya-our-beloved-neighbour.html . This small extract may be sufficient to show the sensitivity of the issue: - Any discussion of Hindu origins and development, especially w.r.t. Kerala, would be quite inadequate without reference to Adi Sankara, the great reformer, teacher, scholar, and author. Sankaracharya flourished ca. 8th C C.E. or in the first century before or after the commencement of the Malayalam or Kollam Era in 825 C.E. The great sage was born at Kalady or at Veliyanadu on the opposite shore of the river in his mothers house. In either case he was born in the midst of a great Christian population affiliated to churches established many centuries before his birth at nearby places like Malayattoor, Angamaly, Parur, Edappally &c. on the river banks or Churni or the Periyar. How far his life and thoughts have
been influenced by this strong Christian presence around him remains to be explored in full.

Some more interesting read  on India –Religion Controversies and Shankaracharya related at:    https://books.google.co.in/books?id=XdmxDDMsRSIC&pg=PA119&lpg=PA119&dq=christian++shankaracharya++kaladi&source=bl&ots=3PQS_2JjrQ&sig=VaRqP7P-vxsJXTNF5-O1eQldIOg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjYzJTTgMXOAhVJso8KHV8aDrQQ6AEIMjAD#v=onepage&q=christian%20%20shankaracharya%20%20kaladi&f=false  ;    http://www.satnami.com/Tirupati%20a%20buddhist%20srine.pdf  

 

4.      In the present case, probably it may be better to find the ‘  suitable provisions within the frame work of University incorporation, take the political- and – academic route through the governor and syndicate and proceed further with the commemoration statue of the Visionary founder by whose name the University is established . In any case the First step  and pro-active ( legal and administrative )  initiative needs to come from the chair of the University, as a ‘ focused in-house University issue’ and not as a public and international debate.

For your contemplation please.

Regards

BVK Sastry

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ganesh R
Sent: Monday, 15 August, 2016 10:17 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: Do we value Sankara?

 

Dear friends,

I completely agree with Prof. Varakhedi sir and Prof. Iyengar sir. Yes, it's time for action. If Sri Shankara bhagavtapaada's statue is not allowed in his own birth place and in the very university campus which is named after him, what else to be needed? Excluding him, can any one imagine classical Sanskrit studies in general and  Indian philosophy in particular? Such puujyapuujaavyatikrama has be condemned in any domain of Indian learning.

Regards

Ganesh

On Aug 16, 2016 1:47 AM, "Shrinivasa Varakhedi" <shri...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Members,

 

I second the opinion expressed by Prof. Iyengar. Sri Anil or someone can make a petition in change.org. lets support it. let is be in public place. BVP is a closed list, where public participation is less. BVP expresses its solidarity and wholehearted support. Too much discussion without any action will not help us. This does not need a debate but action. 

 

with best regards,

shrivarahedi

On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 6:28 PM, rniyengar <narayana...@gmail.com> wrote:

Just because some people protest the authorities should not give up the erection of the statue. If you have any apprehensions about this, please start a campaign on Change.org. Not only BVP members but others also in hundreds if not thousands will sign supporting the Memorial, at SSU Kalady.

RNI

On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 3:12:52 PM UTC+5:30, Anil Narayanan wrote:

Namaste..
     Pls. see the attached. AISF ( a leftist youth organisation) is protesting against building the statue of Sankaracharya at the new entrance of Sree Sankaracharya University, Kalady, Kerala. They are celebrating it as a day against Hindutva. Actually are such protests are protests against our own tradition? Sankara has at least written glosses for prasthanatraya. He is regarded as Acharya and not as a teacher. It is said that the Guruparampara  starting from Sadaashiva reaches us through Sankara.  The one and only one university of Sanskrit in Kerala goes by his name. Still, the protestors say they wont allow to build the statue of Sankara. Tomorrow, these protestors may crave for building statues for Carl Marx, Max Muller etc. in Sankaracharya university itself. Ofcourse, Marx and Muller may be reputed. But one should first of all bow their heads before their own ancestry. If Sankaracharya university and Kerala can not stand for Sankara, who else? If Indians do not respect Sankara, who else? I would like to know the opinions of the reputed scholars in this regard. If this forum does not permit the discussion ( regarding it as political and not as academic) , please feel free to write personally.
  Thanking you,
  Anil.

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warm regards,
shri.varakhedi
-----------------------------------------
Prof. Shrinivasa Varakhedi, Ph.D
(Recipient of Presidents Award)

Professor in Shastra and Dean (Academics)

Karnataka Samskrita University,

Pampa Mahakavi Road, Chamaraj Pet,

Bengaluru - 560018

Mobile : +91-94853-01353
Ph Off :  +91-80-26705596
Land Res: +91-80-26794258

 

Former Director, Sanskrit Academy, 

Osmania University, Hyderabad 07

 

Former Faculty of Rashtriya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth, Tirupati.

 

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[sunil bhattacharjya]

Namaste,

Thank you for letting us know that some Christians in Kerala think about a possible influence of Christianity on Adi Shankara. Sometime ago I read a paper where a Muslim scholar claimed that Adi Shankara was influenced by Islam. All these may have been confusing the common people.

Hope there would be a  debate among the schoilars in India  on the issue of the date of Adi Shankara. It may not be very difficult to find the solution, as we know that he was born in a "Nandana" year and there are only 16 or 17 Nandana years in a millennium. Saturn was Tungi in Shankara's horoscope, and there are only about 27 or 28 such periods (each period of of two and a half years duration) in a Millennium. Then there was the Somavamshi king Sudhanva of Avanti (with capital at Mahismati), who was a contemporary of Adi Shankara. I understand that the Bhavishya purana has given the pauranic time period of this king. It may be possible tp find all such relevant information, if there is a common will to find a solution to this nagging issue. 

Regards,

Sunil KB

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warm regards,
shri.varakhedi
-----------------------------------------
Prof. Shrinivasa Varakhedi, Ph.D
(Recipient of Presidents Award)

Professor in Shastra and Dean (Academics)

Karnataka Samskrita University,

Pampa Mahakavi Road, Chamaraj Pet,

Bengaluru - 560018

Mobile : +91-94853-01353
Ph Off :  +91-80-26705596
Land Res: +91-80-26794258

 

Former Director, Sanskrit Academy, 

Osmania University, Hyderabad 07

 

Former Faculty of Rashtriya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth, Tirupati.

 

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[sunil bhattacharjya]

Dear friends,

Sorry, there was a slip. Please read the following sentence

Saturn was Tungi in Shankara's horoscope, and there are only about 27 or 28 such periods (each period of of two and a half years duration) in a Millennium.

as follows:

Saturn was Tungi in Shankara's horoscope, and there are only about 33 0r 34 such periods (each period of of two and a half years duration) in a Millennium.

Regards,

Sunil KB

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Please don’t mix issues on threads if you want to discuss of Sankara’s date make a separate thread. This has been discussed before on this list. Posting issues not relevant to the tile of the thread will cause inconvenience to all. Please don’t reply back. I hope you see my point. Thanks

Regards

Ajit

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of sunil bhattacharjya
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 11:32 AM
To: BHARATIYA VIDVAT
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: Do we value Sankara?

 

Namaste,

Thank you for letting us know that some Christians in Kerala think about a possible influence of Christianity on Adi Shankara. Sometime ago I read a paper where a Muslim scholar claimed that Adi Shankara was influenced by Islam. All these may have been confusing the common people.

Hope there would be a  debate among the schoilars in India  on the issue of the date of Adi Shankara. It may not be very difficult to find the solution, as we know that he was born in a "Nandana" year and there are only 16 or 17 Nandana years in a millennium. Saturn was Tungi in Shankara's horoscope, and there are only about 27 or 28 such periods (each period of of two and a half years duration) in a Millennium. Then there was the Somavamshi king Sudhanva of Avanti (with capital at Mahismati), who was a contemporary of Adi Shankara. I understand that the Bhavishya purana has given the pauranic time period of this king. It may be possible tp find all such relevant information, if there is a common will to find a solution to this nagging issue. 

Regards,

Sunil KB

 

 

[Anil Narayanan]

Pranams..
  Many thanks for the wholehearted supports and guidances..As per the instructions provided here, we can wait for some days for knowing the stand/responses from University authorities..If needed, campaign will be started soon.."kriyaa kevalam uttaram"..
  Once again thank you all,
   Anil.

---

From: rniyengar
Sent: ‎15-‎08-‎2016 06:29 PM
To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
Subject: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: Do we value Sankara?

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[P.V. NARAYANAN]

I'am a member of the Sree Sankaracharya University community. But, not a part of the protest going on there in connection with the Sankara statue issue which was brought to the notice of this group members by Mr. Anil Narayanan.

.

There is nothing to be debated or politicized in erecting a statue of the person in whose name an institution is established. It is a matter of mere propriety.

At the same time, we must think about an important fact that Adi Sankara's pictures/statues/idols which are now in vogue have nothing to do with the real image of  the great teacher, because nobody does have an authentic image of him. All of the images and statues that we see now are the poor products of artistically/intellectually poorer people of 19th and 20th centuries CE. So, since no one can be sure about the image of Adi Sankara the statue going to be placed there may be a popular image of an ordinary svami of modern age. This would only fetch shame to the Adi Sankara himself and it would make the real admirers of him desperate. 

Why can't the scholars and followers of Adi Sankara take the thing in a fair and befitting way?
Why do they run behind dead images and poor creations? 
The unparalleled philosophic works composed by the great preceptor are very much enough to enliven him until the end of the world. 

I would like to bring another relevant fact to the attention of the members of this group that, Kalady, where the Sree Sankacharya University of Sanskrit is situated, is a centre of pilgrimage. The Kanchi Sankara Mutt is situated adjacent to the place proposed for placing the statue. Daily a large number of 'tourists' are coming to visit the Mutt and its 'stupa'. When they notice a statue (IDOL !) near by they will  flock around it and also offer pooja there. (This has already happened with a statue erected in front of the main building of this university.)  This primarily will disturb the smooth function of the University. 

And, the more serious thing is that any university run by the state is a secular institution intented for serious academic activities such as generating and disseminating knowledge. (I find the faces of certain members in my mind, when the term 'secular' is pronounced. It is a pity to see the sad plight of a great idea). Allowing Worship and offering poojas on the campuses would ruin the very purpose of the academic institutions. So, if the University really wants to revere Adi Sankara it should withdraw its decision of establishing a useless, poor and unauthentic image of Adi Sankara before the University and must take meaningful steps to provide facilities for serious researches and deliberations on his works and ideas.

Thanks,

Dr. P.V. Narayanan.

[Anil Narayanan]

Pranams..
  I know that there will be many teachers like Dr.P.V. Narayanan in Sree sankaracharya University who silently support the activities and intellectual ideas of the protestors..Facts are always facts..Please do not state that there was no protest..See the photo of the protest attached with my previous mail..More than the matter of propriety, this is a matter of self-respect..If some persons who visit Kanchi mutt, visit Sree Sankaracharya university and offer their salutations before the statue of Acharya, it does not affect the activities of the University..We know which activities are adversely affecting a University..It is pretty clear that Dr. P.V. Narayanan is taking his stand with the protestors..But sure and certain these kind of protests against the self and silent supports to them are alarming..But as noted, researches and deliberations on the works of Srisankara are always welcome..
   With all respect and regards,
   Anil.

---

From: P.V. NARAYANAN
Sent: ‎17-‎08-‎2016 06:44 AM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

Dear Vidwan Anil Narayananji,

Dr. P V Narayanan did not say there was no protest. He only said that he was not part of the protest that was brought to the notice of the list.

Nevertheless, he made it very clear that he is opposed to the erection of the statue. He wants to say that his reasoning or line of argument for opposing is different from that of the protesters.

His bases for opposing are

1. Statue is a poor replica of the actual image.

2. University is a state run body, so should be 'secular' (meaning probably 'secularist')

3. Pilgrimage activity disturbs the academic activity on the campus.

What the post of Dr P V Narayanan makes clear is that there are individuals (at least one) opposed to the statue idea from within the university community itself.

Let us take the arguments advanced one by one:

1. Statue is a poor replica of the actual image: This argument when applied to all the idols of the deities, stands in contradiction to the very ethos/ philosophy of idol worship. Which image of any deity can be said to be the 'authentic' image of the deity? Leave alone the ahistorical abstract concept of a deity. Even the images of historical figures we have today can never be said to be authentic images. Not only of those from a very ancient past. Just take the images of MK Gandhiji or Dr BR Ambedkarji. They have taken several different shapes at several different places. Only faint similarities can be seen with the original image. Why, I have seen pictures of the legendary film music composer Ilaya Rajaji on cycle rickshaws and soda shop sign boards, all in their own naïve portrait drawing style. But all of them serve their intended purpose of their users, an outward visual tool for an inner activity of emotion. The same point applies to the present case too.

2. Though the whole reality about the secularist nature of states itself is a whole questionable idea. Keeping it aside, establishing  statues has been done by secularist states at all over the places. Those actions have never been looked at as opposed to secularism.

3. Many university campuses all over the world have a tourist activity of visiting the campus on them. That has never been looked at as a hindrance to their 'scientific' pursuits. Rules can always be framed and implemented to avoid temple like activity at a place that is not intended to be temple.

Dr P V Narayanan expressed a great respect for the great preceptor. He has his own way of expressing his respect. Hope he respects their own methods of others in expressing their own respect. 

Warm regards,

-N 

[Shrivathsa B]

Amazing sophistry.
Mr.PVN,
1. No sculpture can be an exact replica of the person. Hence, the question cannot be about the "authenticity". You are just indulging in meaningless sophistication. If you want an authentic sculpture of Shankara, will you please specify what age should the sculpture represent? After all Shankara would have undergone various bodily changes till he left his body!
2. How is it that your heart aches only against the sculpture of Shankara but not the photos of Mohandas Gandhi, Ambedkar etc. Which adorn all campuses? Secular sculptures are Kosher?
3. Why don't you go the whole hog and protest the naming of the university? This is because the next time I come to kAlaDi, I will do arcanaa to the name of the university because it carries the name of Shankara.

I am not very surprised that with people like you, the protest against the statue will indeed succeed!

[Ashish Negi]

Respected Dr. P.V. Narayanan Sir

Erecting a statue and performing pooja does not go against secularism. As Rajiv Malhotraji says "World does not need Tolerance, it needs Respect.".
(Also, it is a speculation that people will come and do pooja.. University can always have security check in.)

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

A debate should be started on new thread what is the purpose of a University in relation to higher education with focus on Sanskrit and India studies. Once we arrive at conclusion on the purpose of a University everything else will fall into place.

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

 

[Jsr Prasad]

> At the same time, we must think about an important fact that Adi Sankara's pictures/statues/idols which are now in vogue have nothing to do with the real image of  the great teacher, because nobody does have an authentic image of him. All of the images and statues that we see now are the poor products of artistically/intellectually poorer people of 19th and 20th centuries CE.

Sorry for this intervention, but on a lighter note.. Then, we must warn the Chinna Jeeyar Swamy Trust, Hyderabad which is erecting a 216 ft sitting statue of Sri Ramanuja, on the occasion of his sahasraabdi-utsava. Also, we may have to remove all Ravivarma's images of Saraswati etc., from our house hold and rush to ekaanta, to realize the real naama-roopa of supreme reality.

Regards

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

The question if a statue resembles Adi Shankara or not does not arise. The question arises if universities which are established by acts of State legislatures have powers to erect statues after which the universities are named. If the statue represents a religious person should worship be allowed with universities money. Do universities have the power to use tax payers money given to them for erecting statues. Are universities established to erect statues build architectural marvels build parks, art galleries in the names of their founders? . Do universities don’t find better activities to be involved with. Some questions the court may answer, some universities themselves need to find an answer

 

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

 

[Jsr Prasad]

Ajit ji,

These are my views:

We beat around the bush, in the name of so-called secularism. Then, what could be the final list of religious personalities, when we plan to erect anyone's statue/idol. My response was not exclusive to Kalady University.

I am wondering, what do we do with installed statues like that of Madan Mohan Malviya at BHU. What do we do with Saraswati idols installed in most of Kendriya Vidyalaya schools in India. Others can quote many more such examples. Here, I would like to refer to a famous University where a student committed suicide due to various reasons, and issue was highly policiticized. Do we grant permission to statue/bust size images of people which are installed in Universities, not using  tax player's money?

Regards

Sent from my Motorola phone

--

[Jsr Prasad]

Please read the following as -

Then, what could be the final list of non- religious personalities, 

Thanks

[Nagaraj Paturi]

PM unveils statue of Pandit Nehru at JNU campus

November 14, 2005
New Delhi

http://archivepmo.nic.in/drmanmohansingh/content_print.php?nodeid=217&nodetype=2

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[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Malaviya is most remembered as the founder of Banaras Hindu University (BHU) at Varanasi in 1916, which was created under the B.H.U. Act, 1915. Adi Sanakarcharya is not the founder of the university under discussion. People don’t offer pujas to Madan Mohan Malviya , Nehru or Gandhi But Adi Shankar is believed to be an incarnation of Sankara himself.

 

An image of an idol on professors desk is different from erecting a statue and creating a park around the statue of a religious person after whom a university is named and offering floral tributes hence the controversy and my questions arose. Universities primary and core function is different. Why not use the funds in a better way. I understand there is a legal side and emotional side. Why should universities not take the legal side and stick to its core purpose.

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

Talking of tax payer's money,

Thiruvalluvar Statue

In 1979, the then Prime Minister Morarji Desai laid the foundation stone for the statue. However, the installation and the sculpting work began on September 6, 1990, on the tiny island adjacent to Vivekananda Rock Memorial when funds were allocated in the 1990-91 budget. Initially, the project stalled but then recommenced in 1997 and was completed on January 1, 2000. At the cost of more than US$1 million (INR 61.4 million),

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 11:19 PM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Malaviya is most remembered as the founder of Banaras Hindu University (BHU) at Varanasi in 1916, which was created under the B.H.U. Act, 1915. Adi Sanakarcharya is not the founder of the university under discussion. People don’t offer pujas to Madan Mohan Malviya , Nehru or Gandhi But Adi Shankar is believed to be an incarnation of Sankara himself.

 

An image of an idol on professors desk is different from erecting a statue and creating a park around the statue of a religious person after whom a university is named and offering floral tributes hence the controversy and my questions arose. Universities primary and core function is different. Why not use the funds in a better way. I understand there is a legal side and emotional side. Why should universities not take the legal side and stick to its core purpose.

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvparishat@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jsr Prasad
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 11:07 PM
To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Ajit ji,

These are my views:

We beat around the bush, in the name of so-called secularism. Then, what could be the final list of religious personalities, when we plan to erect anyone's statue/idol. My response was not exclusive to Kalady University.

I am wondering, what do we do with installed statues like that of Madan Mohan Malviya at BHU. What do we do with Saraswati idols installed in most of Kendriya Vidyalaya schools in India. Others can quote many more such examples. Here, I would like to refer to a famous University where a student committed suicide due to various reasons, and issue was highly policiticized. Do we grant permission to statue/bust size images of people which are installed in Universities, not using  tax player's money?

Regards

Sent from my Motorola phone

On 17-Aug-2016 10:39 PM, "Ajit Gargeshwari" <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

The question if a statue resembles Adi Shankara or not does not arise. The question arises if universities which are established by acts of State legislatures have powers to erect statues after which the universities are named. If the statue represents a religious person should worship be allowed with universities money. Do universities have the power to use tax payers money given to them for erecting statues. Are universities established to erect statues build architectural marvels build parks, art galleries in the names of their founders? . Do universities don’t find better activities to be involved with. Some questions the court may answer, some universities themselves need to find an answer

 

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

 

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

By the by , does Tiruvallar statue have the actual features of the great visionary and saint ?

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Dear Anilji,

Sri P.V.Narayananji expressed doubt as to whether the proposed statue at Kaladi would look like Adi Shankara actually was. There is an old statue of Adi Shankara in the Kudali Matha near the confluence of the rivers Tunga and Bhadra. May be the new statue should  be made to look like that, unless there are still older statues of Adi Shankara in any other place. Kudali math has a temple of Vidyashankar like the Sringeri Math also  has and that shows that these two maths should be  sister-maths.

Regards,

Sunil KB

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

There is no university at Vivekananda Rock Memorial. One has to keep in mind Government can give money for all sections of society to propagate their faith. I know very well secularism is highly debatable. I have already said before, The question if a statue resembles Adi Shankara or not does not arise. I have also said there legal part a university can approach court. My primary question in what is a university and its core function. Perhaps for some to erect statues.

 

Regards

 

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nagaraj Paturi
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 11:24 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Talking of tax payer's money,

 

Thiruvalluvar Statue

 

In 1979, the then Prime Minister Morarji Desai laid the foundation stone for the statue. However, the installation and the sculpting work began on September 6, 1990, on the tiny island adjacent to Vivekananda Rock Memorial when funds were allocated in the 1990-91 budget. Initially, the project stalled but then recommenced in 1997 and was completed on January 1, 2000. At the cost of more than US$1 million (INR 61.4 million),

 

 

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 11:19 PM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Malaviya is most remembered as the founder of Banaras Hindu University (BHU) at Varanasi in 1916, which was created under the B.H.U. Act, 1915. Adi Sanakarcharya is not the founder of the university under discussion. People don’t offer pujas to Madan Mohan Malviya , Nehru or Gandhi But Adi Shankar is believed to be an incarnation of Sankara himself.

 

An image of an idol on professors desk is different from erecting a statue and creating a park around the statue of a religious person after whom a university is named and offering floral tributes hence the controversy and my questions arose. Universities primary and core function is different. Why not use the funds in a better way. I understand there is a legal side and emotional side. Why should universities not take the legal side and stick to its core purpose.

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jsr Prasad
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 11:07 PM
To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Ajit ji,

These are my views:

We beat around the bush, in the name of so-called secularism. Then, what could be the final list of religious personalities, when we plan to erect anyone's statue/idol. My response was not exclusive to Kalady University.

I am wondering, what do we do with installed statues like that of Madan Mohan Malviya at BHU. What do we do with Saraswati idols installed in most of Kendriya Vidyalaya schools in India. Others can quote many more such examples. Here, I would like to refer to a famous University where a student committed suicide due to various reasons, and issue was highly policiticized. Do we grant permission to statue/bust size images of people which are installed in Universities, not using  tax player's money?

Regards

Sent from my Motorola phone

On 17-Aug-2016 10:39 PM, "Ajit Gargeshwari" <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

The question if a statue resembles Adi Shankara or not does not arise. The question arises if universities which are established by acts of State legislatures have powers to erect statues after which the universities are named. If the statue represents a religious person should worship be allowed with universities money. Do universities have the power to use tax payers money given to them for erecting statues. Are universities established to erect statues build architectural marvels build parks, art galleries in the names of their founders? . Do universities don’t find better activities to be involved with. Some questions the court may answer, some universities themselves need to find an answer

 

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

Is developing greenery on the campus is the university's core function?

But that is done because it has an indirect benefit in favour of the core function of the university.

Similarly, all the space designing of the campus including the installation of inspiring pieces of graphic and plastic art matching the ethos of the university indirectly contribute to the university's performance of its core function.

Any decision in a university is taken or implemented following all the procedures laid down in its statutes , passing through all the university bodies meant for the purposes of decision making and implementation. 

Courts question only non-conformity with such procedures.  

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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[Jsr Prasad]

Are we speaking of ethical practices and prescribed core functioning of higher educational institutions in India. If so, we are grown very old. Less said the better. Appointments ranging from VC's to attenders are made under political pressure, caste, region, state/central govt, and many such parameters. The usual practice is , when there is a rule, you can make an exemption; when there is no rule, you can create one! 

UGC is the apex body if all higher education. Shall we ask the UGC chairman to remove the Saraswati idol installed on 1st floor of it's head office in Delhi.

Regards

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Exactly then Why are we debating this in BVP instead of them being debated in decision making and implementation boies of the university. If a university has taken a decision Police and law will protect the university decision

Regards

Ajit

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nagaraj Paturi
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 11:55 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Is developing greenery on the campus is the university's core function?

 

But that is done because it has an indirect benefit in favour of the core function of the university.

 

Similarly, all the space designing of the campus including the installation of inspiring pieces of graphic and plastic art matching the ethos of the university indirectly contribute to the university's performance of its core function.

 

Any decision in a university is taken or implemented following all the procedures laid down in its statutes , passing through all the university bodies meant for the purposes of decision making and implementation. 

 

Courts question only non-conformity with such procedures.  

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 11:33 PM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

There is no university at Vivekananda Rock Memorial. One has to keep in mind Government can give money for all sections of society to propagate their faith. I know very well secularism is highly debatable. I have already said before, The question if a statue resembles Adi Shankara or not does not arise. I have also said there legal part a university can approach court. My primary question in what is a university and its core function. Perhaps for some to erect statues.

 

Regards

 

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nagaraj Paturi
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 11:24 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Talking of tax payer's money,

 

Thiruvalluvar Statue

 

In 1979, the then Prime Minister Morarji Desai laid the foundation stone for the statue. However, the installation and the sculpting work began on September 6, 1990, on the tiny island adjacent to Vivekananda Rock Memorial when funds were allocated in the 1990-91 budget. Initially, the project stalled but then recommenced in 1997 and was completed on January 1, 2000. At the cost of more than US$1 million (INR 61.4 million),

 

 

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 11:19 PM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Malaviya is most remembered as the founder of Banaras Hindu University (BHU) at Varanasi in 1916, which was created under the B.H.U. Act, 1915. Adi Sanakarcharya is not the founder of the university under discussion. People don’t offer pujas to Madan Mohan Malviya , Nehru or Gandhi But Adi Shankar is believed to be an incarnation of Sankara himself.

 

An image of an idol on professors desk is different from erecting a statue and creating a park around the statue of a religious person after whom a university is named and offering floral tributes hence the controversy and my questions arose. Universities primary and core function is different. Why not use the funds in a better way. I understand there is a legal side and emotional side. Why should universities not take the legal side and stick to its core purpose.

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jsr Prasad
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 11:07 PM
To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Ajit ji,

These are my views:

We beat around the bush, in the name of so-called secularism. Then, what could be the final list of religious personalities, when we plan to erect anyone's statue/idol. My response was not exclusive to Kalady University.

I am wondering, what do we do with installed statues like that of Madan Mohan Malviya at BHU. What do we do with Saraswati idols installed in most of Kendriya Vidyalaya schools in India. Others can quote many more such examples. Here, I would like to refer to a famous University where a student committed suicide due to various reasons, and issue was highly policiticized. Do we grant permission to statue/bust size images of people which are installed in Universities, not using  tax player's money?

Regards

Sent from my Motorola phone

On 17-Aug-2016 10:39 PM, "Ajit Gargeshwari" <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

The question if a statue resembles Adi Shankara or not does not arise. The question arises if universities which are established by acts of State legislatures have powers to erect statues after which the universities are named. If the statue represents a religious person should worship be allowed with universities money. Do universities have the power to use tax payers money given to them for erecting statues. Are universities established to erect statues build architectural marvels build parks, art galleries in the names of their founders? . Do universities don’t find better activities to be involved with. Some questions the court may answer, some universities themselves need to find an answer

 

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Saraswathi stands for Goddess of learning or learning in general. Shankaracharya stood for a particular class of Hindu followers. UGC chairman or Chairperson can have any image in his office it’s their choice. It’s a different issue if the chairman or chairperson forces his colleagues to offer salutations to the installed images or he or her in the capacity as Chairman or Chair person of UGC offers floral tributes to images as part of their official work.

 

This statue controversy is related to political ideology trouble of Kerala so why at all discuss. I agree less said the better.

 

A lager question is should we start naming universities after every Indian saint and erect their statues? In my view all saints have contributed notably to Indian society. All lead exemplary lives

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jsr Prasad
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 11:56 PM
To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Are we speaking of ethical practices and prescribed core functioning of higher educational institutions in India. If so, we are grown very old. Less said the better. Appointments ranging from VC's to attenders are made under political pressure, caste, region, state/central govt, and many such parameters. The usual practice is , when there is a rule, you can make an exemption; when there is no rule, you can create one! 

--

[Nagaraj Paturi]

I said in one of my earliest posts that opposition can not stand legal scrutiny.

All the later discussion has come up a result of issues raised, sermons on secularism, legality of the descision etc.  by different list members.

Our discussion is not intended to be a substitute for any university administrative procedure. It is a public opinion expression on a public body.

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Universities don’t function on the basis public opinion. Why does one need public support on a universities internal matter Then?

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nagaraj Paturi
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 12:19 AM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

I said in one of my earliest posts that opposition can not stand legal scrutiny.

 

All the later discussion has come up a result of issues raised, sermons on secularism, legality of the descision etc.  by different list members.

 

Our discussion is not intended to be a substitute for any university administrative procedure. It is a public opinion expression on a public body.

On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 12:07 AM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Exactly then Why are we debating this in BVP instead of them being debated in decision making and implementation boies of the university. If a university has taken a decision Police and law will protect the university decision

Regards

Ajit

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nagaraj Paturi
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 11:55 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Is developing greenery on the campus is the university's core function?

 

But that is done because it has an indirect benefit in favour of the core function of the university.

 

Similarly, all the space designing of the campus including the installation of inspiring pieces of graphic and plastic art matching the ethos of the university indirectly contribute to the university's performance of its core function.

 

Any decision in a university is taken or implemented following all the procedures laid down in its statutes , passing through all the university bodies meant for the purposes of decision making and implementation. 

 

Courts question only non-conformity with such procedures.  

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 11:33 PM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

There is no university at Vivekananda Rock Memorial. One has to keep in mind Government can give money for all sections of society to propagate their faith. I know very well secularism is highly debatable. I have already said before, The question if a statue resembles Adi Shankara or not does not arise. I have also said there legal part a university can approach court. My primary question in what is a university and its core function. Perhaps for some to erect statues.

 

Regards

 

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nagaraj Paturi
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 11:24 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Talking of tax payer's money,

 

Thiruvalluvar Statue

 

In 1979, the then Prime Minister Morarji Desai laid the foundation stone for the statue. However, the installation and the sculpting work began on September 6, 1990, on the tiny island adjacent to Vivekananda Rock Memorial when funds were allocated in the 1990-91 budget. Initially, the project stalled but then recommenced in 1997 and was completed on January 1, 2000. At the cost of more than US$1 million (INR 61.4 million),

 

 

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 11:19 PM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Malaviya is most remembered as the founder of Banaras Hindu University (BHU) at Varanasi in 1916, which was created under the B.H.U. Act, 1915. Adi Sanakarcharya is not the founder of the university under discussion. People don’t offer pujas to Madan Mohan Malviya , Nehru or Gandhi But Adi Shankar is believed to be an incarnation of Sankara himself.

 

An image of an idol on professors desk is different from erecting a statue and creating a park around the statue of a religious person after whom a university is named and offering floral tributes hence the controversy and my questions arose. Universities primary and core function is different. Why not use the funds in a better way. I understand there is a legal side and emotional side. Why should universities not take the legal side and stick to its core purpose.

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jsr Prasad
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 11:07 PM
To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Ajit ji,

These are my views:

We beat around the bush, in the name of so-called secularism. Then, what could be the final list of religious personalities, when we plan to erect anyone's statue/idol. My response was not exclusive to Kalady University.

I am wondering, what do we do with installed statues like that of Madan Mohan Malviya at BHU. What do we do with Saraswati idols installed in most of Kendriya Vidyalaya schools in India. Others can quote many more such examples. Here, I would like to refer to a famous University where a student committed suicide due to various reasons, and issue was highly policiticized. Do we grant permission to statue/bust size images of people which are installed in Universities, not using  tax player's money?

Regards

Sent from my Motorola phone

On 17-Aug-2016 10:39 PM, "Ajit Gargeshwari" <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

The question if a statue resembles Adi Shankara or not does not arise. The question arises if universities which are established by acts of State legislatures have powers to erect statues after which the universities are named. If the statue represents a religious person should worship be allowed with universities money. Do universities have the power to use tax payers money given to them for erecting statues. Are universities established to erect statues build architectural marvels build parks, art galleries in the names of their founders? . Do universities don’t find better activities to be involved with. Some questions the court may answer, some universities themselves need to find an answer

 

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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[Bijoy Misra]

As Dr Prasad had observed, this thread is going around the bush.

Yes, students need inspirational role models and must be reminded

to emulate scholarship.  I would recommend a Valmiki statue (real or

imaginary) or a token pillar in every educational institution to alert

children that creativity is a human attribute ( this is a distraction).

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Why should there be a protest by a non-university body then?

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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[Ajit Gargeshwari]

The same logic applies does Valmiki represent all sections of Indian population. We should discontinue with this statue business What’s done in the past is past

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bijoy Misra
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 12:25 AM
To: Bharatiya Vidvat parishad
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

As Dr Prasad had observed, this thread is going around the bush.

Yes, students need inspirational role models and must be reminded

to emulate scholarship.  I would recommend a Valmiki statue (real or

imaginary) or a token pillar in every educational institution to alert

children that creativity is a human attribute ( this is a distraction).

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 2:49 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagara...@gmail.com> wrote:

I said in one of my earliest posts that opposition can not stand legal scrutiny.

 

All the later discussion has come up a result of issues raised, sermons on secularism, legality of the descision etc.  by different list members.

 

Our discussion is not intended to be a substitute for any university administrative procedure. It is a public opinion expression on a public body.

On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 12:07 AM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Exactly then Why are we debating this in BVP instead of them being debated in decision making and implementation boies of the university. If a university has taken a decision Police and law will protect the university decision

Regards

Ajit

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nagaraj Paturi
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 11:55 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Is developing greenery on the campus is the university's core function?

 

But that is done because it has an indirect benefit in favour of the core function of the university.

 

Similarly, all the space designing of the campus including the installation of inspiring pieces of graphic and plastic art matching the ethos of the university indirectly contribute to the university's performance of its core function.

 

Any decision in a university is taken or implemented following all the procedures laid down in its statutes , passing through all the university bodies meant for the purposes of decision making and implementation. 

 

Courts question only non-conformity with such procedures.  

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 11:33 PM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

There is no university at Vivekananda Rock Memorial. One has to keep in mind Government can give money for all sections of society to propagate their faith. I know very well secularism is highly debatable. I have already said before, The question if a statue resembles Adi Shankara or not does not arise. I have also said there legal part a university can approach court. My primary question in what is a university and its core function. Perhaps for some to erect statues.

 

Regards

 

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nagaraj Paturi
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 11:24 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Talking of tax payer's money,

 

Thiruvalluvar Statue

 

In 1979, the then Prime Minister Morarji Desai laid the foundation stone for the statue. However, the installation and the sculpting work began on September 6, 1990, on the tiny island adjacent to Vivekananda Rock Memorial when funds were allocated in the 1990-91 budget. Initially, the project stalled but then recommenced in 1997 and was completed on January 1, 2000. At the cost of more than US$1 million (INR 61.4 million),

 

 

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 11:19 PM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Malaviya is most remembered as the founder of Banaras Hindu University (BHU) at Varanasi in 1916, which was created under the B.H.U. Act, 1915. Adi Sanakarcharya is not the founder of the university under discussion. People don’t offer pujas to Madan Mohan Malviya , Nehru or Gandhi But Adi Shankar is believed to be an incarnation of Sankara himself.

 

An image of an idol on professors desk is different from erecting a statue and creating a park around the statue of a religious person after whom a university is named and offering floral tributes hence the controversy and my questions arose. Universities primary and core function is different. Why not use the funds in a better way. I understand there is a legal side and emotional side. Why should universities not take the legal side and stick to its core purpose.

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jsr Prasad
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 11:07 PM
To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Ajit ji,

These are my views:

We beat around the bush, in the name of so-called secularism. Then, what could be the final list of religious personalities, when we plan to erect anyone's statue/idol. My response was not exclusive to Kalady University.

I am wondering, what do we do with installed statues like that of Madan Mohan Malviya at BHU. What do we do with Saraswati idols installed in most of Kendriya Vidyalaya schools in India. Others can quote many more such examples. Here, I would like to refer to a famous University where a student committed suicide due to various reasons, and issue was highly policiticized. Do we grant permission to statue/bust size images of people which are installed in Universities, not using  tax player's money?

Regards

Sent from my Motorola phone

On 17-Aug-2016 10:39 PM, "Ajit Gargeshwari" <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

The question if a statue resembles Adi Shankara or not does not arise. The question arises if universities which are established by acts of State legislatures have powers to erect statues after which the universities are named. If the statue represents a religious person should worship be allowed with universities money. Do universities have the power to use tax payers money given to them for erecting statues. Are universities established to erect statues build architectural marvels build parks, art galleries in the names of their founders? . Do universities don’t find better activities to be involved with. Some questions the court may answer, some universities themselves need to find an answer

 

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-statue-of-valmiki-banaras-hindu-university-at-varanasi-uttar-pradesh-95850306.html

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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[Ajit Gargeshwari]

I don’t know probably the thread initiator knows. Why  should we as BVP protest? What are we protesting. We should stop this statue gimmickry and send a message and help in academic excellence. Past is past we cannot undo but future is ours.

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nagaraj Paturi
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 12:25 AM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Why should there be a protest by a non-university body then?

 

On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 12:23 AM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Universities don’t function on the basis public opinion. Why does one need public support on a universities internal matter Then?

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nagaraj Paturi
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 12:19 AM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

I said in one of my earliest posts that opposition can not stand legal scrutiny.

 

All the later discussion has come up a result of issues raised, sermons on secularism, legality of the descision etc.  by different list members.

 

Our discussion is not intended to be a substitute for any university administrative procedure. It is a public opinion expression on a public body.

On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 12:07 AM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Exactly then Why are we debating this in BVP instead of them being debated in decision making and implementation boies of the university. If a university has taken a decision Police and law will protect the university decision

Regards

Ajit

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nagaraj Paturi
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 11:55 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Is developing greenery on the campus is the university's core function?

 

But that is done because it has an indirect benefit in favour of the core function of the university.

 

Similarly, all the space designing of the campus including the installation of inspiring pieces of graphic and plastic art matching the ethos of the university indirectly contribute to the university's performance of its core function.

 

Any decision in a university is taken or implemented following all the procedures laid down in its statutes , passing through all the university bodies meant for the purposes of decision making and implementation. 

 

Courts question only non-conformity with such procedures.  

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 11:33 PM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

There is no university at Vivekananda Rock Memorial. One has to keep in mind Government can give money for all sections of society to propagate their faith. I know very well secularism is highly debatable. I have already said before, The question if a statue resembles Adi Shankara or not does not arise. I have also said there legal part a university can approach court. My primary question in what is a university and its core function. Perhaps for some to erect statues.

 

Regards

 

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nagaraj Paturi
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 11:24 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Talking of tax payer's money,

 

Thiruvalluvar Statue

 

In 1979, the then Prime Minister Morarji Desai laid the foundation stone for the statue. However, the installation and the sculpting work began on September 6, 1990, on the tiny island adjacent to Vivekananda Rock Memorial when funds were allocated in the 1990-91 budget. Initially, the project stalled but then recommenced in 1997 and was completed on January 1, 2000. At the cost of more than US$1 million (INR 61.4 million),

 

 

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 11:19 PM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Malaviya is most remembered as the founder of Banaras Hindu University (BHU) at Varanasi in 1916, which was created under the B.H.U. Act, 1915. Adi Sanakarcharya is not the founder of the university under discussion. People don’t offer pujas to Madan Mohan Malviya , Nehru or Gandhi But Adi Shankar is believed to be an incarnation of Sankara himself.

 

An image of an idol on professors desk is different from erecting a statue and creating a park around the statue of a religious person after whom a university is named and offering floral tributes hence the controversy and my questions arose. Universities primary and core function is different. Why not use the funds in a better way. I understand there is a legal side and emotional side. Why should universities not take the legal side and stick to its core purpose.

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jsr Prasad
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 11:07 PM
To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Ajit ji,

These are my views:

We beat around the bush, in the name of so-called secularism. Then, what could be the final list of religious personalities, when we plan to erect anyone's statue/idol. My response was not exclusive to Kalady University.

I am wondering, what do we do with installed statues like that of Madan Mohan Malviya at BHU. What do we do with Saraswati idols installed in most of Kendriya Vidyalaya schools in India. Others can quote many more such examples. Here, I would like to refer to a famous University where a student committed suicide due to various reasons, and issue was highly policiticized. Do we grant permission to statue/bust size images of people which are installed in Universities, not using  tax player's money?

Regards

Sent from my Motorola phone

On 17-Aug-2016 10:39 PM, "Ajit Gargeshwari" <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

The question if a statue resembles Adi Shankara or not does not arise. The question arises if universities which are established by acts of State legislatures have powers to erect statues after which the universities are named. If the statue represents a religious person should worship be allowed with universities money. Do universities have the power to use tax payers money given to them for erecting statues. Are universities established to erect statues build architectural marvels build parks, art galleries in the names of their founders? . Do universities don’t find better activities to be involved with. Some questions the court may answer, some universities themselves need to find an answer

 

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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[Ajit Gargeshwari]

LOL we should call a tender Marketing package: Large business INR 11999.00….

 

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nagaraj Paturi
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 12:29 AM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-statue-of-valmiki-banaras-hindu-university-at-varanasi-uttar-pradesh-95850306.html

 

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Prof. Srinivasa Varakhediji did find a need to protest.

Devil's advocate moderation brings into BVP threads a lot of fun.

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Sure it does. Thanks for the wonderful shall I say evening or morning!!!!

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nagaraj Paturi
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 12:35 AM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Prof. Srinivasa Varakhediji did find a need to protest.

 

Devil's advocate moderation brings into BVP threads a lot of fun.

On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 12:30 AM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don’t know probably the thread initiator knows. Why  should we as BVP protest? What are we protesting. We should stop this statue gimmickry and send a message and help in academic excellence. Past is past we cannot undo but future is ours.

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nagaraj Paturi
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 12:25 AM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Why should there be a protest by a non-university body then?

On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 12:23 AM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Universities don’t function on the basis public opinion. Why does one need public support on a universities internal matter Then?

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nagaraj Paturi
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 12:19 AM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

I said in one of my earliest posts that opposition can not stand legal scrutiny.

 

All the later discussion has come up a result of issues raised, sermons on secularism, legality of the descision etc.  by different list members.

 

Our discussion is not intended to be a substitute for any university administrative procedure. It is a public opinion expression on a public body.

On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 12:07 AM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Exactly then Why are we debating this in BVP instead of them being debated in decision making and implementation boies of the university. If a university has taken a decision Police and law will protect the university decision

Regards

Ajit

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nagaraj Paturi
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 11:55 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Is developing greenery on the campus is the university's core function?

 

But that is done because it has an indirect benefit in favour of the core function of the university.

 

Similarly, all the space designing of the campus including the installation of inspiring pieces of graphic and plastic art matching the ethos of the university indirectly contribute to the university's performance of its core function.

 

Any decision in a university is taken or implemented following all the procedures laid down in its statutes , passing through all the university bodies meant for the purposes of decision making and implementation. 

 

Courts question only non-conformity with such procedures.  

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 11:33 PM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

There is no university at Vivekananda Rock Memorial. One has to keep in mind Government can give money for all sections of society to propagate their faith. I know very well secularism is highly debatable. I have already said before, The question if a statue resembles Adi Shankara or not does not arise. I have also said there legal part a university can approach court. My primary question in what is a university and its core function. Perhaps for some to erect statues.

 

Regards

 

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nagaraj Paturi
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 11:24 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Talking of tax payer's money,

 

Thiruvalluvar Statue

 

In 1979, the then Prime Minister Morarji Desai laid the foundation stone for the statue. However, the installation and the sculpting work began on September 6, 1990, on the tiny island adjacent to Vivekananda Rock Memorial when funds were allocated in the 1990-91 budget. Initially, the project stalled but then recommenced in 1997 and was completed on January 1, 2000. At the cost of more than US$1 million (INR 61.4 million),

 

 

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 11:19 PM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Malaviya is most remembered as the founder of Banaras Hindu University (BHU) at Varanasi in 1916, which was created under the B.H.U. Act, 1915. Adi Sanakarcharya is not the founder of the university under discussion. People don’t offer pujas to Madan Mohan Malviya , Nehru or Gandhi But Adi Shankar is believed to be an incarnation of Sankara himself.

 

An image of an idol on professors desk is different from erecting a statue and creating a park around the statue of a religious person after whom a university is named and offering floral tributes hence the controversy and my questions arose. Universities primary and core function is different. Why not use the funds in a better way. I understand there is a legal side and emotional side. Why should universities not take the legal side and stick to its core purpose.

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jsr Prasad
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 11:07 PM
To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Ajit ji,

These are my views:

We beat around the bush, in the name of so-called secularism. Then, what could be the final list of religious personalities, when we plan to erect anyone's statue/idol. My response was not exclusive to Kalady University.

I am wondering, what do we do with installed statues like that of Madan Mohan Malviya at BHU. What do we do with Saraswati idols installed in most of Kendriya Vidyalaya schools in India. Others can quote many more such examples. Here, I would like to refer to a famous University where a student committed suicide due to various reasons, and issue was highly policiticized. Do we grant permission to statue/bust size images of people which are installed in Universities, not using  tax player's money?

Regards

Sent from my Motorola phone

On 17-Aug-2016 10:39 PM, "Ajit Gargeshwari" <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

The question if a statue resembles Adi Shankara or not does not arise. The question arises if universities which are established by acts of State legislatures have powers to erect statues after which the universities are named. If the statue represents a religious person should worship be allowed with universities money. Do universities have the power to use tax payers money given to them for erecting statues. Are universities established to erect statues build architectural marvels build parks, art galleries in the names of their founders? . Do universities don’t find better activities to be involved with. Some questions the court may answer, some universities themselves need to find an answer

 

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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[P.V. NARAYANAN]

I thank the scholars who responded to my comments.

I really wonder to see the content of the responses of the scholars to my post. Sadly and painfully I realize that none of them has tried to understand my stance in the matter.

                    

Thanks for the comments of Sri Nagraj Paturi and Sri Shrivatsa B. The only thing I wanted to say is that Adi Sankara is (was) not a god. So, speaking of the propriety of installing a replica image comparing it with gods' idols is irrelevant and seems unworthy of scholars. Even if an original image is found, academia must think thrice before installing it at a University (let the image be of Marx or Mao or somebody else.)

Mr. Anil Narayanan's remarks are superficial. His views are emotional. His words appear as of a worker of a political party which is arguing for installing the image. There was no attempt on my part to conceal the protests going on inside and outside the University against the move to install an idol of a svami (I do repeat- Not of Adi Sankara). As I know, there are certain people among them who are not leftists. Further, I had made it crystal clear through declaring my position that I'm NOT in favour of placing any statue in front of the University. But I'm not a part of the agitation going on against it. Regarding my political stand also; my words of this and previous posts themselves have declared it,  (and I used to unhesitatingly express it anywhere.)

 

My firm conviction in this matter is that this attempt is meaningless and it will neither help Sankara's philosophy nor the University (nor the society) in any way. Any scholar pursuing the peerless world of knowledge marched along by Adi Sankara needs no statue or idol. I do believe that Adi Sankara is to be perceived from the broad perspective of Hinduism and not from the rigid point of view of Hindutva. This position also is certainly debatable.

 

Showing some quotations from some source would not suffice to establish baseless arguments. Paradoxically, the only quotable quote in this context is 'na hi yuktim anavagacchan kaścid vipaścit vacanamātrāt sampratyayabhāg bhavati'. (Let's continue the 'play' by designating everyone as Leftist and Dalit when she speaks logically, which now a day has become a common practice of certain religious fanatics.)

 

Complying with the comment of the administrator, I do abstain from making more comments about other aspects mentioned in the responses.

 

However, the people working in academic institutions must think about the society which supports their existence. Any state-university is run with the money of the common people who are following different religions and beliefs and divergent lifestyles. If every group demands to install their statues/idols on campuses the things will go beyond control. Universities will seize to exist if physical spaces are allocated for satisfying everybody's beliefs. It should respect the beliefs of everyone by accommodating them into the syllabus and taking them as the topic of research, and critically analysing them for helping the society to go forward. 

 

Again, joining with the administrators view, I still hope that this is a scholars’ group and not that of religious believers or of the followers of a particular sect.
So, if the scholars continue the discussion I too wish it should be concentrated on the core point of this issue i.e., on the concept and purpose of a University, (which is a state of mind, not of idols or statues.)

Regards,

P.V. Narayanan.

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[Shrivathsa B]

Will you please reveal to us as to which svaami's idol was sought to be installed?

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

This discussion should and must continue ., on the concept and purpose of a University keeping in mind this is predominantly a mailing list of Sanskrit scholars and scholars who work in the areas on India Studies. Past is past future is with us.

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of P.V. NARAYANAN

Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 12:45 AM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

[Shrivathsa B]

I propose that Ajit start a new thread on the topic and he leave this thread to the propriety of having idols in universities.

I think the devil's advocate did indeed excel the real devil. But the tragedy of this dismal exchange is that Anil's salutary intentions have been ignored.

If Mr. PVN is really concerned about the Shankara statue, let him also ponder tearing apart a few pages of the Indian constitution which have the images of rAma, kRShna, guru gobind singh in it.

We should be talking about why universities are named in a particular way and why sculptures and images are used therein. Isn't it clear that images and sculptures represent the aspirations of the people, it represents a continuity with an existing tradition. Anyone who seeks to disrupt this is the one to whom such continuity is galling.

One can take the argument of Mr. PVN further and ask as to why a university is built in a particular style. There will be no end to such squabbles.

If only academic excellence were to be the aim of a university, not many of the universities in India will be among the top. But the question of bringing about academic excellence is a totally different question. It is not related to the current issue.

--

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Most of the points including that is attempted to be made out to be the core question of core function of a university, brought in now by Dr PVN are already answered.

This bringing of Hinduism Hindutva leftist Dalitist is totally misplaced , improper as there was no context in the thread.

Good night.

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

 

“Hinduism Hindutva leftist Dalitist is totally misplaced , improper as there was no context in the thread. “ I agree such views should not be got on this list.

And to Shrivthasaji. Pleaes don’t ask other to post or leave threads. This list belongs to all members including you.

Good bye and Good night

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shrivathsa B
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 1:06 AM
To: BHARATIYA VIDVAT
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

I propose that Ajit start a new thread on the topic and he leave this thread to the propriety of having idols in universities.

I think the devil's advocate did indeed excel the real devil. But the tragedy of this dismal exchange is that Anil's salutary intentions have been ignored.

If Mr. PVN is really concerned about the Shankara statue, let him also ponder tearing apart a few pages of the Indian constitution which have the images of rAma, kRShna, guru gobind singh in it.

We should be talking about why universities are named in a particular way and why sculptures and images are used therein. Isn't it clear that images and sculptures represent the aspirations of the people, it represents a continuity with an existing tradition. Anyone who seeks to disrupt this is the one to whom such continuity is galling.

One can take the argument of Mr. PVN further and ask as to why a university is built in a particular style. There will be no end to such squabbles.

If only academic excellence were to be the aim of a university, not many of the universities in India will be among the top. But the question of bringing about academic excellence is a totally different question. It is not related to the current issue.

On 18-Aug-2016 01:02, "Ajit Gargeshwari" <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

This discussion should and must continue ., on the concept and purpose of a University keeping in mind this is predominantly a mailing list of Sanskrit scholars and scholars who work in the areas on India Studies. Past is past future is with us.

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of P.V. NARAYANAN
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 12:45 AM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

I thank the scholars who responded to my comments.

I really wonder to see the content of the responses of the scholars to my post. Sadly and painfully I realize that none of them has tried to understand my stance in the matter.

                    

Thanks for the comments of Sri Nagraj Paturi and Sri Shrivatsa B. The only thing I wanted to say is that Adi Sankara is (was) not a god. So, speaking of the propriety of installing a replica image comparing it with gods' idols is irrelevant and seems unworthy of scholars. Even if an original image is found, academia must think thrice before installing it at a University (let the image be of Marx or Mao or somebody else.)

 

Mr. Anil Narayanan's remarks are superficial. His views are emotional. His words appear as of a worker of a political party which is arguing for installing the image. There was no attempt on my part to conceal the protests going on inside and outside the University against the move to install an idol of a svami (I do repeat- Not of Adi Sankara). As I know, there are certain people among them who are not leftists. Further, I had made it crystal clear through declaring my position that I'm NOT in favour of placing any statue in front of the University. But I'm not a part of the agitation going on against it. Regarding my political stand also; my words of this and previous posts themselves have declared it,  (and I used to unhesitatingly express it anywhere.)

 

My firm conviction in this matter is that this attempt is meaningless and it will neither help Sankara's philosophy nor the University (nor the society) in any way. Any scholar pursuing the peerless world of knowledge marched along by Adi Sankara needs no statue or idol. I do believe that Adi Sankara is to be perceived from the broad perspective of Hinduism and not from the rigid point of view of Hindutva. This position also is certainly debatable.

 

Showing some quotations from some source would not suffice to establish baseless arguments. Paradoxically, the only quotable quote in this context is 'na hi yuktim anavagacchan kaścid vipaścit vacanamātrāt sampratyayabhāg bhavati'. (Let's continue the 'play' by designating everyone as Leftist and Dalit when she speaks logically, which now a day has become a common practice of certain religious fanatics.)

 

Complying with the comment of the administrator, I do abstain from making more comments about other aspects mentioned in the responses.

 

However, the people working in academic institutions must think about the society which supports their existence. Any state-university is run with the money of the common people who are following different religions and beliefs and divergent lifestyles. If every group demands to install their statues/idols on campuses the things will go beyond control. Universities will seize to exist if physical spaces are allocated for satisfying everybody's beliefs. It should respect the beliefs of everyone by accommodating them into the syllabus and taking them as the topic of research, and critically analysing them for helping the society to go forward. 

 

Again, joining with the administrators view, I still hope that this is a scholars’ group and not that of religious believers or of the followers of a particular sect.
So, if the scholars continue the discussion I too wish it should be concentrated on the core point of this issue i.e., on the concept and purpose of a University, (which is a state of mind, not of idols or statues.)

 

Regards,

P.V. Narayanan.

 

 

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[Ajit Gargeshwari]

“Tearing apart a few pages of the Indian constitution which have the images of rAma, kRShna, guru gobind singh in it.”

 

I would like to know which page of Indian constitution has these pictures?

“If only academic excellence were to be the aim of a university, not many of the universities in India will be among the top. But the question of bringing about academic excellence is a totally different question. It is not related to the current issue.”

If Universities focus on academic excellence then India and India Universities will be on the top but many are not allowed due to external and internal factors that’s a different issue. Hence we are having this thread here.

 

We should be talking about why universities are named in a particular way and why sculptures and images are used therein. Isn't it clear that images and sculptures represent the aspirations of the people, it represents a continuity with an existing tradition. Anyone who seeks to disrupt this is the one to whom such continuity is galling.

 

Universities created from public money should cater to the aspiration of all sections of the society as enshrined in Indian constitution as per law. It’s a different issue if its private Institution created out of private money. I am for continuing of both traditional and modern methods and numerous universities are created for each of those purposes.

 

 

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

[Bijoy Misra]

Ajitji,

You seem to be confused.

Yes, Valmiki does.  He is a poet.

Think literature, think of human creativity, not political cults.

This thread is lost!  I am sorry to have distracted.

BM

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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[Shrivathsa B]

You are free to check the manuscript if the written constitution of India for the pictures.
http://www.wdl.org/en/item/2672/

Seems like you want to pit academic excellence against the question of identity. You couldn't have been more wrong. This is equivalent to questioning whether a patriot can ever be a good academic. This is simply bad logic.

Universities are indeed run with public money. But that has never stopped them from having images of people of every sort. Why target certain people only? Secondly, who is anybody to judge as to what part of public who give money wish for what. I have never heard of a vote to decide such things. The governing board's independence in this matter has to be respected. We can make our requests. But what you desire is a complete rejection of such ideas.

Mr. PVN didn't specify which particular other svaami's idol he is against. Again, he is also concerned about the exact location of the idol, perhaps not the idea of the idol if it were somewhere else. I want to address a bigger question : whether we should have images / idols of anyone at all in a university and if anyone, who?

My advice to you to start a separate thread on the academic side of the argument was because your intervention here has probably caused a serious issue to be sidetracked. May be that you don't want to realise it.

--

[Anil Narayanan]

Namaste..
Dr.P.V. Narayanan is one of the senior reputed lectures and research guide of Sree sankaracharya University and I personally know him. I have attended some of his lectures as well. Sorry sir if my "emotions" disturbs you and thanks are due to you for teaching a lesson that  "superficial" statements have their own worth. Or else such a long discussion should not have taken place.
With pranams,
Anil.

---

From: P.V. NARAYANAN
Sent: ‎18-‎08-‎2016 12:47 AM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

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[Ganesh R]

Dear and Respected friends,

I honestly feel that we should not be cynical in such issues.  In the BHU campus it self we have a magnificent temple of Sri vishvanaatha. Even in many of the renowned universities of the west we see chapels. Above all, sanaatanadharma and Sanskrit, one of its wonderful  expression, should not be misread in the "light " of religion or "secularism ".  These images,  festivals songs, dances and the like are innumerable aspects of our culture where it is difficult or even impossible and above all, unfair to draw artificial lines and this probably is a seriously bad step that divides people and Mars nationalism, the bedrock of any country's development. Hence I see meaning in the words of Sri Shrivathsa.
Not that you all are unaware of this obvious fact.  Mine is just a humble  act of smaaraNaM, na tu SikShaNaM.

With deep regards

Ganesh

[Vidyasankar Sundaresan]

Dear Prof. Narayanan,

Let me attempt to paraphrase your views from your statements below and ask a few questions. 

1. The proposed statue/idol would necessarily be not a likeness of the historical Sankara bhagavatpAda. Yes, I agree, because the art of photography wasn't born during his times. We have only our own contemporary imaginations to fill in the ancient gaps.

2. The vigraha-s and paintings that inform the popular image were created in the 19th/20th century. Again, I agree, but I fail to see on what basis you judge their creators as being artistically or intellectually inferior or perhaps both.

3. .Any image that may be put up will therefore be like that of a generic picture of a Swami of the modern age. Perhaps so,perhaps not. The typical kind of picture drawn for Sankara depicts him in robes that don't resemble anything within the range of what daSanAmI sannyAsin-s traditionally have been wearing over the centuries. The vigraha-s that are installed in various maTha shrines and  temples seem to follow typical Silpa SAstra guidelines and get vastra alaMkAra-s based on the artistic imagination and capabilities of the officiating pUjAri. 

4. You equate a statue to an IDOL (capitalization yours). I wonder if you have a generic objection to any and all idol worship or if you have a specific objection to potential worship of a statue that has the potential to become an idol.

5. The Kanchi Matha's Keerti Stupa is adjacent to proposed location of a new statue. I was under the impression that this Stupa building is more like a tourist attraction than a temple per se. There is no garbhagRha inside that structure, no mUrti-s consecrated, no pUjAri-s/purohita-s or melSAnti-s or tantri-s associated with it. Certainly, this building is nothing like the maTha and temples run by the Sringeri maTha on the banks of the river. Unlike in the northern parts of India, a generic visitor doesn't have the option to himself offer a pUjA to an idol in Kerala,does he?

6. Finally, I infer that you think *all* the contemporary maTha shrines that offer standard traditional pUjA-s to vigraha-s of Sankara are somehow bringing shame to the name of Adi Sankara and are making his real admirers desperate. I'm not sure what the desperation is above, but left unstated in your statement is a charge that the current maTha-s and other institutions are not "real admirers" of Sankara bhagavatpAda. I would really like to know who these said real admirers are and what are they doing to address their desperation.

With best regards,

Vidyasankar

On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 9:14:40 PM UTC-4, NARAYANAN P.V wrote:

I'am a member of the Sree Sankaracharya University community. But, not a part of the protest going on there in connection with the Sankara statue issue which was brought to the notice of this group members by Mr. Anil Narayanan.

.

There is nothing to be debated or politicized in erecting a statue of the person in whose name an institution is established. It is a matter of mere propriety.

At the same time, we must think about an important fact that Adi Sankara's pictures/statues/idols which are now in vogue have nothing to do with the real image of  the great teacher, because nobody does have an authentic image of him. All of the images and statues that we see now are the poor products of artistically/intellectually poorer people of 19th and 20th centuries CE. So, since no one can be sure about the image of Adi Sankara the statue going to be placed there may be a popular image of an ordinary svami of modern age. This would only fetch shame to the Adi Sankara himself and it would make the real admirers of him desperate. 

Why can't the scholars and followers of Adi Sankara take the thing in a fair and befitting way?
Why do they run behind dead images and poor creations? 
The unparalleled philosophic works composed by the great preceptor are very much enough to enliven him until the end of the world. 

I would like to bring another relevant fact to the attention of the members of this group that, Kalady, where the Sree Sankacharya University of Sanskrit is situated, is a centre of pilgrimage. The Kanchi Sankara Mutt is situated adjacent to the place proposed for placing the statue. Daily a large number of 'tourists' are coming to visit the Mutt and its 'stupa'. When they notice a statue (IDOL !) near by they will  flock around it and also offer pooja there. (This has already happened with a statue erected in front of the main building of this university.)  This primarily will disturb the smooth function of the University. 

And, the more serious thing is that any university run by the state is a secular institution intented for serious academic activities such as generating and disseminating knowledge. (I find the faces of certain members in my mind, when the term 'secular' is pronounced. It is a pity to see the sad plight of a great idea). Allowing Worship and offering poojas on the campuses would ruin the very purpose of the academic institutions. So, if the University really wants to revere Adi Sankara it should withdraw its decision of establishing a useless, poor and unauthentic image of Adi Sankara before the University and must take meaningful steps to provide facilities for serious researches and deliberations on his works and ideas.

Thanks,

Dr. P.V. Narayanan.

On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 11:29 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagara...@gmail.com> wrote:

They know that this is going to be failing, as it can not stand any legal scrutiny. A university in the name of a personality builds the statue of that personality on or near its premises. It has every right to do so. They know this.

This is just a publicity stunt.

Since they are loosing their ground in terms of their original Marxist philosophy, they are searching for new stunts such as these.

On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 7:46 PM, Kuldeep Kumar <kuldee...@gmail.com> wrote:

This is another proof of intellectual bankruptcy of AISF. They should  know that sankar has given a philosophy of one reality which prevails in every atom of the creation.If his birthplace and University standing for his philosophy and scholarship cannot have his statue at its intrance,should we expect it anywhere else.If they continue with these unmindful tactics,soon they may loose their ground. A wide awareness compaign for this must be launched. 

Thanks Mr. Anil for noticing and posting it.I do not see any point in this protest.University may approach to the court.

Kuldeep kumar

On 15 August 2016 at 18:16, Ravi Khangai <ravik...@gmail.com> wrote:

statue should come up

On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 5:40 PM, 'Dr.S.R.Leela(MLC)' via भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत् <bvpar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

 What business AISF has to protest against Shankara ? They do not take note of nearly 5000 Kerala youth converted to Islam and many of them heading towards ISIS. Protest is Clearly biased and blatantly anti India. Thanks mr.Anil for noticing and posting this . I do not see any politics here. Facts need to be seen as facts.

Leela

On 15-Aug-2016, at 16:30, Shrivathsa B <shrivath...@gmail.com> wrote:

hariH OM,
shrii anil,

   It is disheartening and alarming. The reason for this is the lack of common purpose and unity among Hindus. The dwindling Hindu numbers in Kerala is also a great cause of alarm.

   I can pray to bhagavaan that well meaning people like you increase in the state.

   There is nothing much for scholars to debate on this. Almost everyone here will agree with you and share your pain. A reply to a street protest is either a government crack down or a counter protest. As the government is not favourable, you will have to think about a street protest only.

svasti,
      bhavaaniibhaaratii jayatetamaam,
                                                       shrivathsa.

On 15-Aug-2016 15:12, "'Anil Narayanan' via भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" <bvpar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Namaste..
     Pls. see the attached. AISF ( a leftist youth organisation) is protesting against building the statue of Sankaracharya at the new entrance of Sree Sankaracharya University, Kalady, Kerala. They are celebrating it as a day against Hindutva. Actually are such protests are protests against our own tradition? Sankara has at least written glosses for prasthanatraya. He is regarded as Acharya and not as a teacher. It is said that the Guruparampara  starting from Sadaashiva reaches us through Sankara.  The one and only one university of Sanskrit in Kerala goes by his name. Still, the protestors say they wont allow to build the statue of Sankara. Tomorrow, these protestors may crave for building statues for Carl Marx, Max Muller etc. in Sankaracharya university itself. Ofcourse, Marx and Muller may be reputed. But one should first of all bow their heads before their own ancestry. If Sankaracharya university and Kerala can not stand for Sankara, who else? If Indians do not respect Sankara, who else? I would like to know the opinions of the reputed scholars in this regard. If this forum does not permit the discussion ( regarding it as political and not as academic) , please feel free to write personally.
  Thanking you,
  Anil.

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"My heart is so full of love for God, that there is no space left for the hatred of Satan"- Rabia, 8th century Sufi.

-Dr. Ravi Khangai, Assistant Professor, P.G.T.D. History, RTM Nagpur University, Nagpur, Maharashtra-440033

Mo- 8446000912, 9665575896

Adjunct Faculty

Hindu University of America

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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[BVKSastry(Gmail)]

Namaste

Too many points coming up in this thread . The unspecified mix of religion education –University under State governance – Public sentiment  ( ignomus or Opinion) with ‘ tradition’ may not be a  ‘healthy or spiritual’ issue where academics need to get prioritized.   May be  the thread debate needs  a split on several points, like :

 

a) Purpose of a Sanskrit University :  What will govern this issue ? IS this a focus on a personality, a philosophy, a language issue, current period public sentiment ?   Would this be governed by :

- the Statute of a state,

-  whimsical fancies of an administration

- Compulsion to spend funds

-  A donors wish, a Student interest

-   the ideation to  Commemorate the memory of a visionary and thought promoter ( Vedanta -Sampradaya Kartaa -  Mataacharya ?? – Avataar ) to inspire upcoming generation, in which case the University would be constrained to teach only ‘ One school and shade of Darshana Shaastra and Upaasanaa ; All ‘ secular topics’ need to be shunned or placed on a lower pedestal. And this would incur the wrath of ‘ public exchequer’  audit ! and throw the question to a larger orbit :   Should a secular government  spend money on one school and shade of Vedanta Thought by  ‘Adi Shankara’ for the Heritage Value, Culture, Religion, Language, promotion of philosophy and critical thinking, because the institution was promoted by State for a specific purpose ?    )  

 

b) What purpose will a Statue /Idol ( = Pratimaa ?  Shilpa ? beyond a ‘ place of worship ) serve on a campus entry or a  path-way ? Why people love to see their  ‘ Faiths’ represented in the form of a visual, tangible, material form  ( Be it a poster, an advertisement , ’ ?  A scaled down icon on the table or photo on  wall ? How different is this issue from a  ‘Temple –Pratimaa (  as an Archaavataara needing a specific model of worship) where the line of thought may be  ‘ Pratimaayaam tu saannidhyam Archakasya tapo-balaat’  Or  Pratimaasu –Alpa –Buddheenaam ?

 

c) On the other side, rather flip side, is there any specific directive from  ‘Aagama and Shilpa Shaastras’ on setting up a ‘ pratimaa in public sans worship’ – ( ‘Pratimaa-Gruha of Bhasa model?  Recall Vijayanagar empire where pratimaas broken become the architecture and culture display than ‘worship –items ( even tolerating worst forms of sacrilege) ’ ; And ‘ Father of Nation’  stands shade less on the mid of road, for national commemoration  to be remembered once a year !

 

d) As the instance of a leader of a certain school of Vedanta Thought has been brought up in the debate here, it may be of interest to explore what the wisdom of politics of Social Justice  and  Constraints from National Justice say on the  ‘Statue and State-Law’. The case readings relate to    <  a reported $425 million of state funds  on statues and memorials throughout the impoverished state, the chief minister tabled a state government motion to form a 1,000-officer strong statue protection force. …   . > 

 

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/supreme-court-rejects-mayawatis-plea-on-statues-row/article47766.ece

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashtriya_Dalit_Prerna_Sthal_and_Green_Garden

http://blogs.reuters.com/india/2010/12/04/statutes-and-statues-mayawati-gets-supreme-court-nod-for-sprawling-memorial-park/

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jsr Prasad
Sent: Wednesday, 17 August, 2016 12:57 PM
To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

> At the same time, we must think about an important fact that Adi Sankara's pictures/statues/idols which are now in vogue have nothing to do with the real image of  the great teacher, because nobody does have an authentic image of him. All of the images and statues that we see now are the poor products of artistically/intellectually poorer people of 19th and 20th centuries CE.

Sorry for this intervention, but on a lighter note.. Then, we must warn the Chinna Jeeyar Swamy Trust, Hyderabad which is erecting a 216 ft sitting statue of Sri Ramanuja, on the occasion of his sahasraabdi-utsava. Also, we may have to remove all Ravivarma's images of Saraswati etc., from our house hold and rush to ekaanta, to realize the real naama-roopa of supreme reality.

Regards

[K S Kannan]

...Universities will seize to exist...

"Cease", please, Prof. Narayan!

(Pun intended)

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[Nityanand Misra]

On Thursday, 18 August 2016 11:07:58 UTC+5:30, ks.kannan.2000 wrote:

...Universities will seize to exist...

"Cease", please, Prof. Narayan!

(Pun intended)

I hope he ‘sees’ the pun, even as I drown in ‘seas’ of laughter. 

PS: ‘seize’, ‘sees’, and ‘seas’ (IPA /siːz/) are homophones, but ‘cease’ (IPA /siːs/) is not. So the use of ‘seize’ for ‘cease’ would technically be a ‘malapropism’.

Sorry for the distraction. The discussion may go on.

[K S Kannan]

The "Sanskritist's 'disease' "(of endless play on words) 

            will never decease ?

(No pun intended on endless!)

And sorry for the attraction to the distraction!

--

[K S Kannan]

I can see non-pundits fidgeting!

[Nityanand Misra]

On Thursday, 18 August 2016 13:34:50 UTC+5:30, ks.kannan.2000 wrote:

The "Sanskritist's 'disease' "(of endless play on words) 

            will never decease ?

Not if puns are spun with ‘this ease’. 

PS: I hope the punditry of the punsters is not punished or expunged.

[P.V. NARAYANAN]

I sincerely thank Prof. K.S. Kannan and Prof. Nityanand Misra for pointing out the mistake in using the spelling of the word ‘cease’ as ‘sieze’ in my previous post. No ‘pun’ or ‘play of language’ was intended there. I earnestly admit the mistake committed by me and the lack of attention on my part is regretted.

I also request the members of this group to read the very sentence in my earlier post as “Universities will cease to exist if physical spaces are allocated for satisfying everybody's beliefs.”

regards, 

P.V. Narayanan.

[K S Kannan]

None to impugn the impunity!

Need of the hour, by the way : 

the iconoclasm of the iconoclasm

[Nagaraj Paturi]

undeterred fun ditto

[S R Ivaturi]

Suppose a layman visits the Sankara university and wants to know why the university was named after Sankara. Well, if some space on the campus is used to answer that question with a statue erected and life history engraved all around, it won't harm any one's secular ideology even it be the statue of a religious person.

Dr. Srinivasa Rao Ivaturi

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Sure it doesn’t hurt anyone. It’s good to have colossal statue. A layman going to a University for what reason may I ask?

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of S R Ivaturi

Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 4:02 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

[vnjha46]

If the name of the university has not disturbed any ideology how can the statue disturb that  ? What a logic  ! 

The university administration must remain firm. 

VNJHA 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

The main opposition in the list are postings is senior Faculty of the University. A Student of the university got this issue to BVP list by showing left protest. As we don’t discuss left ideology other issues were discussed here. Yes, I agree at the end of the day it’s their university and the decision of the universities authority is binding on all who work in the university.

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

From: 'vnjha46' via भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत् [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 5:01 PM
To: bvparishat
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

If the name of the university has not disturbed any ideology how can the statue disturb that  ? What a logic  ! 

The university administration must remain firm. 

 

VNJHA 

 

 

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com>

Date: 18/08/2016 16:12 (GMT+05:30)

To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com

Subject: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Sure it doesn’t hurt anyone. It’s good to have colossal statue. A layman going to a University for what reason may I ask?

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of S R Ivaturi
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 4:02 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Suppose a layman visits the Sankara university and wants to know why the university was named after Sankara. Well, if some space on the campus is used to answer that question with a statue erected and life history engraved all around, it won't harm any one's secular ideology even it be the statue of a religious person.

Dr. Srinivasa Rao Ivaturi

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[P.V. NARAYANAN]

Dear scholars,

While seeing the responses of the senior scholars in this issue, now I understand the reasons for the present state of Sanskrit and Sanskrit studies in India.

Thanks, Mr. Anil Narayanan for bringing this issue to the notice BVP members. If my words did hurt you I must say sorry. Let me clarify what I said in my earlier posts on this issue.

It may be observed that, had I not intervened in the discussion it would have gone merely emotional, because there was no scope for a serious discussion in your presentation. It would have only attracted many ‘call for counter-protests’ and ‘emotional sharing’. The real issue should not be confined to the installation of statue or to the protests against it. It should be viewed on the background of the concept of a university. Does a university really need a statue? How will it help Sankara’s contribution? Is it connected with the academics of the university in any way? These are really the prime reasons to be discussed in this regard.

Besides, secondarily, certain common aspects are there to consider. Even if there are statues and idols in some other institutions is it necessary to install a statue in Kalady Sanskrit University? As you too know, the university and the people like me and you are not going to bother about it once it is installed. In the distinct circumstance of the area it will soon be a place of worship and even the university may not have any say on it. As far as a common folk is concerned the style of the statue/idol doesn’t matter. The things are depended on the name of the statue.  Thousands of statues and idols are there on road sides across our country and many of them are being worshiped and the rest are abandoned. You just erect a statue, rest will be done by the people. At the same time, the statues of great historic figures are abandoned after placing it on city squares and in front of many institutions tolerating defecation of crows. Who would like to see Sankara also in that condition in a university?

Taking all these aspects into account how a person who wishes to find the things rationally, can support this worthless attempt. I do not wish to be one among that senseless category. If you and the other supporters like to be so, freedom for that is allowed by the magnificent constitution of this great country. That’s all.

The admirers/followers/devotees/criticizers can now view the photograph of the statue attached (may not be final) of Adi Sankara which is going to be installed in front of the main entrance of Sanskrit University, Kalady. (See below. Please zoom for a clearer view. Same is also attached as a separate file. The sculptor also is seen in the picture. This is taken from a report of an online news channel to which the sculptor gave some explanations about his creation). Once again I stress that my apprehension is not chiefly based on the appearance of this statue.

Regards,

P.V. Narayanan.

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Please read the sentence as” The main opposition in the list are postings from a senior Faculty of the University.”

 

From: Ajit Gargeshwari [mailto:ajit.gar...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 5:07 PM
To: 'bvpar...@googlegroups.com'
Subject: RE: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

The main opposition in the list are postings is senior Faculty of the University. A Student of the university got this issue to BVP list by showing left protest. As we don’t discuss left ideology other issues were discussed here. Yes, I agree at the end of the day it’s their university and the decision of the universities authority is binding on all who work in the university.

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

From: 'vnjha46' via भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्

[mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com]

Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 5:01 PM
To: bvparishat

Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

If the name of the university has not disturbed any ideology how can the statue disturb that  ? What a logic  ! 

The university administration must remain firm. 

 

VNJHA 

 

 

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com>

Date: 18/08/2016 16:12 (GMT+05:30)

To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com

Subject: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Sure it doesn’t hurt anyone. It’s good to have colossal statue. A layman going to a University for what reason may I ask?

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of S R Ivaturi
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 4:02 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Suppose a layman visits the Sankara university and wants to know why the university was named after Sankara. Well, if some space on the campus is used to answer that question with a statue erected and life history engraved all around, it won't harm any one's secular ideology even it be the statue of a religious person.

Dr. Srinivasa Rao Ivaturi

--

[P.V. NARAYANAN]

Dear Sir Prof. V.N Jha,

If you ask the same question reversely you can find its answer.  

Why do these people crave for a statue of Sankara (whose image is not known to us) when the University itself is named after him?

P.V. Narayanan.

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[V N Jha]

Was the name given by knowing the image?  Think in this line you will start understanding.

[P.V. NARAYANAN]

The name itself is a sign of  reverence of the Kerala society towards the great teacher.

What else you are bringing by placing a statue of a common image?

It is not like placing a statue of Gandhiji, Ambedkar or Vallabh Bhai Patel. 

This sort of discussion would only lead us to vitandavada.

All these arguments are to distort the attention from the core issue.

P.V. Narayanan.

[V N Jha]

This is not the same statue which I had seen inside the campus of the university.
There was a statue right at the entrance of the main building. That was a popular image  of Sankaracarya. I do not know why   has that been changed.

[P.V. NARAYANAN]

No Sir.

Neither that statue has been changed or shifted from the entrance of the main building. 

Tt is still there. ( Now it has become almost an idol of worship and many of the university community offer praying before it).

The present issue is with a new statue(seen in picture) that is going to be erected at the new entrance near by the bus-stand/main road.

P.V. Narayanan.

  

[P.V. NARAYANAN]

Please read the sentence as; 'Neither that statue has been changed nor shifted from the entrance of the main building. 

TIt is still there.'

[P.V. NARAYANAN]

Please read the sentence as; 'Neither that statue has been changed nor shifted from the entrance of the main building. 

It is still there.'

[vnjha46]

Why not the similar one which already exists in the campus  ?

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.

[P.V. NARAYANAN]

When there is already one why do they go for another? 

Nobody has demanded to remove the existing one from there.

Hence, the whole plot seems to be the part of an unfair play.

When would our academicians realise that this sort of activities are of not help to bring fame to the institution?

[S R Ivaturi]

@Ajit ji. Why a layman would visit a university?I know hundreds of pilgrims who visited BHU while on a trip to Varanasi. Some as part of tour package (consisting of students mainly) and some on their own even though they are mere graduates or school dropouts. Same is the case with OU or UH in Hyderabad.  It's simple curiosity. People who could not pursue higher education want to just step into a university at least as a visitor. Don't expect only academicians to have interest in universities.
Now to the question what is the purpose of a university? UGC and NAAC expect colleges and universities to have community awareness and outreach, and chalk out programmes keeping in mind people around them. Social responsibility of the higher education institutions is very much stressed on these days.

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

If a statue helps with Universities Social responsibility and increase NAAC score it must be done. A University also needs to cater to on lookers and tourists is another added dimension. I did not know about this.  From the recent post I read a statue of Sankaracharya already exists in the university area. They want to install one more. They can if their administrators want to.

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of S R Ivaturi
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 6:53 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

@Ajit ji. Why a layman would visit a university?I know hundreds of pilgrims who visited BHU while on a trip to Varanasi. Some as part of tour package (consisting of students mainly) and some on their own even though they are mere graduates or school dropouts. Same is the case with OU or UH in Hyderabad.  It's simple curiosity. People who could not pursue higher education want to just step into a university at least as a visitor. Don't expect only academicians to have interest in universities.

[Anil Narayanan]

Respected scholars,
Pranams..
  Let bring before you some incidents from the history of Sree Sankaracharya University of Sanskrit.

(1) On 1993,Govt. of Kerala passed bill for SSUS and the person who burnt the bill into ashes became it's Vice chancellor later.

(2) One senior professor who gave street-lectures and proclaimed that if SSUS came to existence, it will lead to social/ communal calamity and will affect secularism. He later became the PVC of the University.

(3) When Prof. N.P. Unni was the Vice chancellor, some party protestors crashed and burnt the statue of Sankaracharya.

   The followers of the same protestors are behind the present strike as well. These kind of activities in the campus are are always taking place with the support of the teaching staff. I believe that any person who gave any kind of support to these kind of activities are shame to the society. As a former student of the University, I can unhesitatingly state that politics (especially politics of the teaching faculty) ruins the campus/academia.
    With regards,
    Anil.

---

From: P.V. NARAYANAN
Sent: ‎18-‎08-‎2016 06:09 PM

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[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Please don’t consider this as any advise this a statement. On the points you posted now I don’t how BVP list can help. I feel these issues are outside the preview on BVP as a mailing list. If this are the real issues please sort it out amongst the stake holders.

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

From: 'Anil Narayanan' via भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्

[mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com]

Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 7:07 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com

Subject: RE: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

[P.V. NARAYANAN]

Now the politics and intention behind posting this issue in BVP is exposed with the latest post of Mr. Anil Narayanan.

He intentionally or unintentionally has declared his grudge with the leftists.

He definitely has right to uphold such a view.

However, this appears to be the reason for bringing this issue before this group.

Instead of analyzing the merits of this issue he and some others want to sensationalise it. 

It is the other side of the politics of the protesters. 

It goes 'left-right'. Ultimately they move between black and white dichotomy. 

I'm least interested in such a deliberation.

My position is different.

That's why I did not take part in the agitations going on in connection with this issue.

(I didn’t even contact any of the organizers of the protests. As far as my knowledge goes AISF is not the only organization that protests in this issue. Majority of the students, teachers and non-teaching staff of the University are against the move to instal the statue. And, it is quite natural in a place like Keralam which has a highly politicized populace. It has its own merits and demerits.)

 

I've precisely stated whatever is to be said in this matter.

Once again I realise the fact that discussion of this sort with the people who are not able to comprehend the crux of the issue and with those who are adamantly not willing to consider divergent positions will be futile.

 

I’m thankful to the scholars who tried to understand the problem and responded sensibly to my comments.  

Regards,

P.V. Narayanan.

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Thank you Prof Narayanan for letting the list informed about your views.

Regards

Ajit

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of S R Ivaturi
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 4:02 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Suppose a layman visits the Sankara university and wants to know why the university was named after Sankara. Well, if some space on the campus is used to answer that question with a statue erected and life history engraved all around, it won't harm any one's secular ideology even it be the statue of a religious person.

Dr. Srinivasa Rao Ivaturi

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[P.V. NARAYANAN]

Thank you, Sri Ajithji..

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[sunil bhattacharjya]

Among the past woes of the SSSU, why not also mention the name of Dr. K.N.Panikkar, the Marxist historian, who was appointed  the Vice Chancellor of SSUS in 2001 and  who introduced many new subject areas, with a view to diluting the emphasis on teaching of Sanskrit in the Sanskrit university.

Regards,

skb

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Sharing the snap shot of the Sankaracharya picture on the website of the University.

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Sharing the Vision of Mission page of the university underlines and the box around the verse for highlighting are mine.

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Whats the Purpose of this?

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nagaraj Paturi
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 10:56 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Sharing the Vision of Mission page of the university underlines and the box around the verse for highlighting are mine.

[Nagaraj Paturi]

To show the university's official view of the image of Sankara and the worshipful respect the university expresses towards Sankara. 

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[Shrivathsa B]

Mr. PVN,

   There is virodha in your statements: on one hand you are concerned that people will worship it, on the other hand, you are concerned that crows will defecate on it.

   Strange that you didn't realize this.

   Secondly, because you are against the idol being installed, you shouldn't bother as to how it looks. Because, according to you, no idol is a good replica.

   What is your great pain when Anil pointed out that there has been leftist interference against even the idea of the university? We are forced to suspect that you are the one who has very strong political views but wish to maintain them in your closet.

svasti,
      bhavaaniibhaaratii jayatetamaam,
                                                      shrivathsa.

--

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Image search for the picture shared by Dr PVN yielded the following url

http://johnyml.blogspot.in/2016/08/sculpture-or-idol-art-controversy-in.html

The blogger provides the artist's perspective and art-world's perspective of the issue.

Expresses his dissatisfaction with the left wing protests while keeping his opposition to right wing intact.

[Dr. T. Ganesan]

It's also a fact that in the Sankaracharya Sanskrit University, there is a Department (or a Professor ?) for teaching Arabic language. !!! I do not know whether many are aware of it .

When asked why such a department in a Sanskrit University, a few of the faculties told that it was due to political considerations. Such is  Keralam which has a highly politicized populace. as stated by Mr. PVN in his earlier mail. !!!!


Ganesan

[Rajkumari Trikha]

I think some beautiful and artistic structure , expressing ideas behind teachings of Shri Shankaracharya will be agreeable to all scholars. Such structure may contain, His words of teachings.

[Ravindranath B S]

 

People who want a secular society are fighting and debating in a unsecular way about placing Shankara’s idol/icon and talk about secularity, Shankara's slogan liberation through knowledge is not working for today's world because people with knowledge don't fight they resolve the difference, then only it can be called as secularism, today's intellectuals are in the process of making all the ancient knowledge as hypothesis by showing that the cat and tiger are same with the power of literacy.

 

            We are very weak in understanding the language or we have made our language very weak, that is why we are unable to communicate to each other hence the differences are arising and people are trying to prove their strength by fighting because there is a knowledge deficiency, we don't have standards of right and wrong, in Shankara's period they had standards to prove their knowledge, today every tom dick and harry are fighting with their own standards which are conflicting.

 

            Today our society infected by the virus of literacy because literacy without knowledge is very dangerous and intellectuals have to give a serious thought about it, we are making our life miserable by justifying, and justification is needed when one makes mistake because right things need not be justified, like we are making team of left and right to prove which face of the coin is important or correct without realising that the value is one only and the faces make no difference to the value of the coin, today people know everything of everything and understand nothing.

 

            Having a debate whether to install a statue of Shankara itself is an insult to him as well to us LIBERATION THROUGH KNOWLEDGE is not achieved because we could see a very big gap of knowledge.

 

Regards,
B S Ravindranath

 

From: Nagaraj Paturi
Sent: 18 August 2016 23:01
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

To show the university's official view of the image of Sankara and the worshipful respect the university expresses towards Sankara. 

 

On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 10:57 PM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Whats the Purpose of this?

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nagaraj Paturi
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 10:56 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

 

Sharing the Vision of Mission page of the university underlines and the box around the verse for highlighting are mine.

 

On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 10:43 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagara...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sharing the snap shot of the Sankaracharya picture on the website of the University.

 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Thank you for posting your conclusions

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

I did not understand this mail. Thanks for posting

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ravindranath B S

Sent: Friday, August 19, 2016 3:08 PM
To: Nagaraj Paturi; bvpar...@googlegroups.com

Subject: RE: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Do we value Sankara?

[P.V. NARAYANAN]

I intervened in this discussion to invite the attention of scholars’ to the points beyond the responses based on emotions and beliefs (which were being posted then). Although, I have concluded my views I would like to post this too before withdrawing.

The important thing to be noted by the members who responded in this issue is that at any cost the proposed statue (of Sankara ?!) will be installed at the entrance of the Sree Sankaracharya University of Sanskrit, Kalady. (Already one statue exists in the University at prime spot.) The University authority appears as adamantly firm on putting the new statue there. If the sources of the news in this regard can be trusted the LEFT DEMOCRATING GOVERNMENT, mainly led by the CPI (M) also apparently is not against this move of the University. (Everyone thinks that had the government wished, the move could have been stopped).  The organizations like AISF are vainly making an effort to anchor their outfit on the campus at the expense of this issue. Some right wing politicians have already entered into the scene to make gain from the circumstance. They remind us about the jackal of Pancatantra story. That’s why I took a different position in this issue.

Hence, in addition to the points raised by me I request the scholar to consider the reasonable questions put forward by the people who logically protest against this move. They are:

According to the news spreading in the media and the university community the money spent for the new entrance and the statue is nearly 70 lakh rupees.

The statue alone costs more than 8 lakh rupees. (Both are to be verified.)

At the same time;

No special scholarships for Sanskrit researchers are being given here.

No special consideration for the research students doing Ph.D on the topics related with Sankara’s philosophy is instituted. (Although a school is there in the name of Sankara no research facility for students are available there.)

Research scholars are constantly complaining about the lack of sufficient facilities for research on the campus and demanding to make necessary arrangements for them.

Even though the University is having an Art Department and many talented students of that department are creating wonderful pieces of art, the University does not have any facility to protect and exhibit them. (An art gallery is there on the campus which is maintained by some other agency. It is not primarily meant for students.)

 

Is it the responsibility of academicians and academic institutions to undertake the propaganda of spreading bhakti ? (This is what actually happened with the existing statue, and the same is feared with the new one.)

When there are so many immediately addressable matters why is this haste on putting the statue?  Does really need it?

There are so many institutions established in the name of great historic personalities, which do not have a statue of those persons. Instead, those institutions have arranged appropriate monuments in their memory such as art gallery, museum and magnificent library. (Certainly many institutions have statues also. But, scholars must think about the merit of them).

 

Finally, is the statue a worthy symbol for a colossal figure like Adi Sankara?

I firmly believe, had Adi Sankara got any information about this, definitely he would have been the first protestor against this move.  

 

Abhivvadaye,

P.V. Narayanan. 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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