Tulsi...The Indian Child genius...some more news

[v i j a y a n . a . p]

The Hilarious Case of Avatar Tulsi

Manu Joseph

Child geniuses are usually overrated, their future especially. That is the way of the world. In the last two decades,  there have been several children, particularly in India, who were declared prodigies. Their place in the world today, I suspect, is far more diminished than their parents had imagined. Some of those kids were not prodigies in the first place. The genius of such prodigy stories lay not in the children, but in the stories. Tathagat Avatar Tulsi is one such case. The young man who was once called a child genius and is now misleadingly heralded by the Indian press as the youngest faculty ever to be appointed by the Indian Institutes of Technology would not believe his accidental contribution to the fortunes of a writer. But I’ll explain that connection later. 

Tulsi’s father has for long said that his son’s rumoured genius is a consequence of a mystically arranged conception that would not only produce a male child, but also a very smart male child. “It is a science called eugenics,” he told The Times of India recently, probably not knowing what he was talking about. “I and my wife had to plan everything in the process of having the child, right from our diet to our mood to the sex itself,” he said. The result was Tulsi, who obtained an MSc degree at the age of 12. It is not hard to imagine that this feat would inspire the Indian media to call him a child prodigy. Though, in time, the moral of Tulsi’s story would be that a 12-year-old need not have any extraordinary cerebral capacity to obtain a Masters degree from Patna University. 

Soon after he became a postgraduate, his fame helped him gatecrash a group of bright Indian students who were sent by the Department of Science and Technology to Germany to meet Nobel laureates. Here, Tulsi was accused by the other students and some scientists of being a fake genius who mouthed jargon that he did not fully understand. 

Tulsi’s fame as a genius was possible because of a dim media and the gullibility of a few important wings of the Government. I do not believe it was a deliberate fraud. The best way to deceive is to deceive yourself first, and the power of Tulsi’s story probably lies in the conviction of Tulsi and his father that the boy was indeed  a genius. 

About three years after the disgrace, Tulsi resurfaced in the papers for being accepted by the Indian Institute of Science for its doctorate programme. He cleared a test to be accepted. He was 15 then, not an extraordinary achievement for his age because boys who are not much older than that sit every year for IIT’s dreaded Joint Entrance Exam. 

Curiously, Tulsi, who is preoccupied with promoting himself as a genius (his website has a link that says ‘About Me’ and another that says, ‘More About Me’) has not taken IIT’s entrance test. Clearing that test creates the most convincing delusion of intelligence in our country, yet Tulsi has not done it.

Tulsi, always in a hurry to create time records, wanted to finish his PhD thesis in two years. He would take six years to come up with a short 33-page thesis on quantum computing. None of his referees at IISc even hint at a genius. Tulsi is today in the news for being appointed, at the age of 22, as an assistant professor (a non-permanent teaching position) at IIT-Powai. 

A few years ago, when he was considered a child genius, I was desperate to write my great Indian novel. I had made so much fun of the autobiographical debut novel everyone was writing that I knew I had lost the right to write one myself. Tulsi’s story, and a spate of boy-genius-invited-by-Nasa stories made me realise that here was an Indian novel waiting to be written. But I could not bring myself to start. Then one day, I saw a front-page anchor story about Tulsi’s father, and I scrambled to write Serious Men before someone else did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tathagat_Avatar_Tulsi

--
           d r   v i j a y a n     a p
                

[Muralidharan Enarth Maviton]

What a relief - to see something in print, that is not the usual eulogy of the self-promoted prodigy in-waiting.  I read with some disappointment the newspaper report some days ago about his appointment as Asst. Professor at IIT and thought it was not a very balanced story. I even thought I had made a mistake in being skeptical about this 'prodigy' and attributed his 'failures' ( e.g.meeting with the Nobel laureates in Germany) to his innocence  and shyness.

 

It is unfortunate but such urban myths will continue to be created and propagated by media.  See how  the Ramar Pillai and herbal petrol myth still survives.

 

Murali 

 

 

                

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Brights India" group.
To post to this group, send an email to bright...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to brights-indi...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brights-india?hl=en-GB.

[v i j a y a n . a . p]

True Murali,

        It is totally unexpected....
Today Our media as well as their  costumers now  each others interests and expectations..Now Nobody expects such news from media....They wont encourage efforts to demystify even obvious frauds! Media industry in the neolib era will flourish with myths than facts .

[viswanathan chathoth]

Murali,Vijayan,

I was also following news on Tulsi since some time. I wonder how this person can be compared to Ramar or even hanan . He has published papers in peer reviewed international journals. See this paper for instance. http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2005quant.ph..5007T   This was done when he was 17, but that is not the crux of the matter, i think.  Whether 17 or 70, he has something genuine to show for himself. Manu Joseph has attacked him unfairly, I feel. I do agree that Tulsi's father did stupid things, and as a child, Tulsi was also party to the self advertisement and such stupidities.
Manu Joseph,for example, is Finding fault in
- the length of Tulsi's thesis -what does it say about the quality, anyway? Afterall, how difficult is to multiply pages in a thesis if somebody wants it?
-in that he did not attend IIT entrance for undergraduate degree -Venkatraman  ramakrishnan who won the 2009 nobel prize, "in  a January 2010 lecture at the Indian Institute of Science, ... revealed that he failed to get admitted at any of the Indian Institutes of Technology, or Christian Medical College, Vellore" Of course, Venkatraman somehow maintained the delusion of intelligence  after his failure ("Clearing that test creates the most convincing delusion of intelligence in our country, yet Tulsi has not done it.-says manu Joseph)

Manu's argument that it is not unusual to be accepted at 15 years for a Ph.D program is surprising. "He was 15 then, not an extraordinary achievement for his age because boys who are not much older than that sit every year for IIT’s dreaded Joint Entrance Exam. " Typically, IIT JEE is attempted by people 17 years or older, and this is for an degree program, not a Ph.D program.They will have to wait for another 6-7 years for that...

On the whole, I feel that the article is not in good taste. Tulsi has his faults ( who has not?) but it is not fair to call him a fraud, I feel. It is a different matter that parents of gifted children often do crazy things and make life a hell for these unfortunates.
Viswanathan.

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:17 AM, Muralidharan Enarth Maviton <emmu...@gmail.com> wrote:

[v i j a y a n . a . p]

Dear Viswan,

                I can partly agree with you ...Tusli need not be a fraud...
But can /should  we  accept him as a  "future scientist" just because he had passed exams at a younger age ? Difficult I feel.To have a balanced view we have to see reports that are skeptical to such claims too...(which are very rare in our printed media...usually articles that do not approve extraordinary claims will  find difficulty in getting published) .

We are always exposed to false claims ..A nation of 1.3 billion people with  negligible genuine scientific discovery is a shame ...regular appearance of  hundreds of false claims is a bigger shame  , I feel...
& We are yet to see true scientific break through by such prodigies ...somehow people love to hear such news...


Has he proved anything new to the scientific society?
The answer should come from science...As no such development so far ,there is no harm in waiting ,I feel. I dont thing any of us can judge him/his discoveries by the reports in the lay press..To me the only thing he has proved is..one can pass/ appear and even pass exams of at least some Indian colleges and universities at a  younger ages than we expected.

In a society which always accepts extraordinary claims without  questioning  Manu's article is a welcome change..As you pointed out the article aslo can be equally wrong....Still such criticism also should get published especially in a society with full of gullible people. ( definitely not in a mature/serious society  ).

One more disagreement.Getting published in an international journal does not prove or disprove anything...
Can we say his article as genuine or not genuine..?!!
No way..we know.

New a report on Software to detect plagiarism.
The publishers, including Elsevier and Springer, are set to roll out software across their journals that will scan submitted papers for identical or paraphrased chunks of text that appear in previously published articles. The move follows pilot tests of the software that have confirmed high levels of plagiarism in articles submitted to journals, according to an informal survey by Nature of nine science publishers. Incredibly, one journal reported rejecting 23% of accepted submissions after checking for plagiarism

Thank you

[Muralidharan Enarth Maviton]

Viswan,

I am afraid  a Ph.D or a peer reviewed article in a journal is no real  indication of genius or  even competence in science since in India both  have become common place. Only journals with rigorous  review procedures will ensure that only the deserving papers get selected. even they do make occasional mistakes. I am not in a position, of course, to decide on the merit of the papers Tulsi has published with his professors. However I do not base my criticism of the Tulsi saga on his accomplishments in science or lack of it. It is the way his father and of late Tulsi himself ( see the  language in his web site  ) narcissistically  promoted themselves when it should have been the brilliant scientific output  of  a genius that did the talking.  It is would have been unfortunate if the damage was done solely by the media with the two not playing active role in the promotion. But that does not seem to be the case.  

Getting selected to IISc. and getting a tenure at IIT could easily have been managed with  sufficient support from the politicians in New Delhi. 

But your views are indeed welcome to such a discussion lest we, in our enthusiasm,  might mistake  human frailty for   deceit and in the process overshadow some genuine brilliance . 

Murali

[Sashikumar kurup]

It is very much within the bounds of Nature that occasionally gifted
children develop. Some chance arrangement and interconnectivity of
neurons may enable that person to understand certain things like
abstract ideas or music or painting far faster than those with a
different networking. This may be only in certain areas of the brain.
Maybe that is why a person with certain extraordinary skills will be
pretty pedestrian when it comes to some other skills which may be on
par with the general population. Because credulous people consider
this as supernatural or unnatural, they expect that the endowed person
manifest no faults at all. Tulsi has simply exhibited advanced skills
in some areas and very ordinary habits in others (bloated self-image
etc). I wish Manu joseph had, if his intention was to demolish
myth-making, used rational arguments instead of trying to present it
as if such things as children with enhanced skills and abilities are
somehow against Nature. The parents are the worst offenders here,
treating their own child like a celebrity sends the wrong message to
the child. They think he will not react like a spoilt child just
because he has certain skills in an unrelated area............sashi

>> *New a report on Software to detect plagiarism.

>> The publishers, including Elsevier and Springer, are set to roll out
>> software across their journals that will scan submitted papers for
>> identical
>> or paraphrased chunks of text that appear in previously published
>> articles.
>> The move follows pilot tests of the software that have confirmed high
>> levels
>> of plagiarism in articles submitted to journals, according to an informal
>> survey by Nature of nine science publishers. Incredibly, one journal
>> reported rejecting 23% of accepted submissions after checking for
>> plagiarism

>> *

>> brights-indi...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

>> .
>> >>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/brights-india?hl=en-GB.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "Brights India" group.
>> >> To post to this group, send an email to bright...@googlegroups.com.
>> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

>> brights-indi...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

>> .
>> >> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/brights-india?hl=en-GB.
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> > Groups
>> "Brights India" group.
>> > To post to this group, send an email to bright...@googlegroups.com.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

>> brights-indi...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

>> .
>> > For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/brights-india?hl=en-GB.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> d r v i j a y a n a p
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Brights India" group.
>> To post to this group, send an email to bright...@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

>> brights-indi...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

[viswanathan chathoth]

Dear Murali , Vijayan;

Both of you have viewed the papers of Tulsi with suspicion. Murali said:1-"Only journals with rigorous  review procedures will ensure that only the deserving papers get selected." I think 'physical review' is no run of the mill journal. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Review . Journal website:http://pra.aps.org/)
2-"Tulsi has published with his professors".
See this paper, published in physical review A, by Tulsi as sole author  :http://arxiv.org/abs/0801.0497  And here is another, again in physical review A, :http://arxiv.org/abs/0711.4299
How many physics professors in our colleges have at least one paper published in physical review?
Murali said: "It is the way his father and of late Tulsi himself ( see the  language in his web site  ) narcissistically  promoted themselves when it should have been the brilliant scientific output  of  a genius that did the talking."

I agree with you. His behaviour, as a child, was pretty childish.His website is the work of a 19 year old, and is not updated since 2007, I understand. However, his social blunders need not reduce the merit of whatever small scientific achievement he has made. It is surprising that we do not suspect the genuineness of a mathematician who refuses to accept the fields  medal and goes into hiding, or another Nobel prize winner   who was frankly psychotic, but suspects plagiarism (unnoticed by referees and reviewers of international journals!) in a teenager who shows lower than optimal social skills, but higher than average skill in physics and maths. (allusion to plagiarism was by Vijayan.)

Vijayan said:" In a society which always accepts extraordinary claims without  questioning  Manu's article is a welcome change"
I beg to disagree. I even suspect the motive of Manu Joseph.Looking at the clever hitching of the name of  of his own debut novel at the end of Tulsi's story, I suspect Manu Joseph is more intent in advertising himself (At least, I am hearing about this author for the first time, because of Avatar tulsi, a near-household name ). His research is bad ( He could at least have googled for the papers published so far by Tusli, for example); his antagonism to the youngster is evident; and his bending of facts and standards to his convenience is nauseating.
Surprisingly, from whatever review available in the net, Manu Joseph's novel does not seem to have any connection with the life of Tulsi. I am not going to buy the novel anytime soon to see whether it does have any such connection.
Viswanathan.

[v i j a y a n . a . p]

Dear Viswan,

How to rate a scientific article by it's relevance and contribution to current knowledge?

We have limitted options ....especially if the research deals with topic unfamiliar to us.
We know that all articles published in peer reviewed international journals are neither "original" nor "great" and nobody endorse all published works.


    Just for curiosity I googled axiv.org.
To my surprise it is not a  journal publishing peer reviewed articles.

If Tulsi or any another student  wanted to upload his thesis in axiv.org they insist an endorser.That is all.Then who is an endorser?

They have direction for that too.

If you're looking for an endorsement, you can find somebody qualified to endorse by clicking on the link titled "Which of these authors are endorsers?" at the bottom of every abstract. You can then find the email addresses of the submitter on the abstract page at the top of the"Submission history" section. It's best for you to find an endorser who (i) you know personally and (ii) is knowledgeable in the subject area of your paper -- a good choice for graduate students would be your thesis advisor or another professor in your department working in your field. If you do not personally know anyone who is eligible to endorse, you can search for recent submissions in your field of interest and then verify that the submitter is eligible to endorse. It is often a good idea to send eligible endorsers a copy of your proposed submission along with the endorsement request. Please note, however, that it is inappropriate to email large numbers of potential endorsers at once, or to repeatedly email the same endorser with a request for endorsement.

It is true that Tusli had an endorser...but is it enough for science to rate his article as great?

Anyway, these directions for the  prospective author can not be an evidence for the quality of the article.

Thank you

[viswanathan chathoth]

Dear Vijayan,
I posted a secondary source in my earlier letter, and that created a confusion for you.. Please see the details of the articles at physical review's website
 http://pra.aps.org/abstract/PRA/v78/i1/e012310
http://pra.aps.org/abstract/PRA/v78/i2/e022332
Viswanathan

[viswanathan chathoth]

>It is very much within the bounds of Nature that occasionally gifted
children develop.

Thanks, Sashi, I agree completely. That is why I feel that search for  'extraordinary evidence' is not warranted in this case.

>The parents are the worst offenders here,
treating their own child like a celebrity sends the wrong message to
the child. They think he will not react like a spoilt child just
because he has certain skills in an unrelated area

Again, I agree with you completely.
Viswanathan.

[v i j a y a n . a . p]

Dear Viswan,

         Now I got the article..It appears as a standard international journal and publishing an  article in that journal is not easy.

Till the scientific society  discuss an article/discovery on it's merit as "extraordinary" scientist's family/local public etc should wait. Albert Einstein's  theory was  accepted by the world without discussing his age or nationality  ( he was 26 years I remember).So Tulsi can wait.

Thank you

[Muralidharan Enarth Maviton]

I am still not very convinced about the 'born a genius' status that adorns Tulsi. It is Nurture Vs. Nature.  Circumstances could have created Einstein's genius and the evil in Hitler, not their genes. There is still a very good possibility of  Tulsi  having been groomed to attain his present stature, with more than fair share of attention, encouragement, bending of rules etc.  This is what Ramar Pillai and some of our mediocre actors and sport persons received and  they soon faded out of the limelight when they did not come up to expectations. 

 

Physical Review is indeed a well known journal although  not very highly rated (relatively low Impact Factor) as journals go. In any case Tulsi need not be given the test of fire in this regard.  I have often wondered about the reason why most young children  show surprising agility and 'extraordinary' learning skills with Rubik's cube, computing skills, computer games, mastering the use of mobile phone and things like that. How they learn in primary school things that I had for college, beats me.  It points to the possibility that much more, in our abilities and skills, can be attained by training than is commonly considered  possible.  

 

My scepticism probably might appear unnecessary but it is because of the years of observing the way the world perceives merit and doles out  praises, benefits, awards and  monuments in a very unfair manner. President Abdul Kalaam is a good example. People not getting the Nobel Prize is another.

 

Murali

[Anand Nair]

Tulsi appears to suffer from a condition known as "savant syndrome". According to researcher Darold Treffert, something that almost all savants have in common is a prodigious memory of a special type, a memory that he describes as "very deep, but exceedingly narrow". It is narrow in the sense that they can recall but have a hard time putting it to use.

The type of "super-memory" possessed by those with the syndrome would help them acquire high academic qualifications at a young age -- as in the case of Tulsi.

To quote from the wikipedia article on the condition:- 

"According to Treffert: 

* One in ten autistic people have savant skills.

* 50% of savants are autistic; the other 50% often have different disabilities, mental retardation, brain injuries, or brain diseases.

* Prodigious savants have very little disability.

* Male savants outnumber female savants 6:1.

A 2009 British study of 137 parents with autistic children found that 28% believed their offspring met the criteria for a savant skill, that is, a skill or power "at a level that would be unusual even for normal people".

If Tulsi indeed suffers from Savant syndrome, the prediction is that he would not be able to contribute anything new to science or human knowledge -- despite the unusual ability to memorize and repeat available facts, equations etc...

Anand

[viswanathan chathoth]

>Now I got the article..It appears as a standard international journal and publishing an  article in that journal is not easy.

Thanks Vijayan, for checking it out.Manu Joseph, having decided to write on Tulsi, should have done some research before decrying Tulsi's  credentials, instead of harping on  the number of pages in his PhD thesis or his not appearing for IITJEE  and such nonsensical arguments.
 It is certainly sickening to see ignorant people weaving supernatural stories to account for the academic brilliance of the occasional brain with higher than average ability in some field or other.At least some people believed that T.R.Mahalingam (mali) the flute maestro -who surprised people by playing bhairavi raga in flute at the age of five- to be an incarnation of Krishna. He-like many other child prodigies- was reportedly pushed too much by his father for more and more public performances.  Such pressure- and fame as  well- so early in life ,I fear, must also have had a role in the troubled personal and artistic life of Mali. (He would make audience wait for hours beyond schedule, may not turn up finally, or may appear, perform for a few minutes and wind up! ) However, all this  does not in any way reduce the stature of Mali as probably the greatest  flautist  of the Carnatic stream.


Sreenivasa Ramanujan, another child prodigy with surprising mathematical skill could not master any other subject even at the average lavel, and, left  Pachaiyappas college after failing even to get a pass in B.A.examination! (Manu Josephs of the era certainly called him phony.He was also suspected of   plagiarism.They had their reasons, of course.) He was subsequently made a fellow of the royal society , and a fellow at Trinity college. Needless to say, his mathematical prowess was widely believed to be a special gift from the goddess Namagiri.Even Ramanujan himself is said to have believed in this supernatural explanation.

I think these people should be considered at par with other differently abled persons!

Tulsi has been somewhat fortunate, to be working as a physics  teacher  at the age of 22 ,and that probably tells of our own maturity as a society.At the age of 23, Ramanujan was still an object of ridicule and intrigue, and was writing this letter to a Cambridge mathematician-which, with its 'schoolboy handwriting' nearly landed in wastebasket!
"Dear Sir,
I beg to introduce myself as a clerk in Accounts Department of Port Trust Office at Madras...I am 23 years of age...I have had no university education but undergone the ordinary school course. After leaving school I have been employing the spare time at my disposal to work at mathematics. I have not trodden through conventional regular course of a university but I am striking out a new path for myself. I have made a special investigation of divergent series in general and the results I get are termed by local mathematicians as ‘startling’."

I am not suggesting that Tulsi is a genius comparable to Ramanujan or that he is certain to do Nobel prize stuff in future. Not every boy who happens to be unusually tall has the potential to become a Magic Johnson, but there is a chance-even a slim chance- to be one , if he ends up in a basket ball team rather than in an automobile workshop.
Viswanathan

[v i j a y a n . a . p]

Dear Viswan,

       You have argued and concluded Tulsi case very neatly and now  even I am convinced of the potential of Tulsi...Now I wish to forget  a story ....
in which one male was  awarded punishment  by a Judge who was impressed by logic of a lady complainant...she proved beyond doubt that her opposite party has the  potential to rape her;
 Unfortunatly the good judge didnt wait for the crime to happen..

[Sashikumar kurup]

'I am not suggesting that Tulsi is a genius comparable to Ramanujan or

that he is certain to do Nobel prize stuff in future. Not every boy
who happens to be unusually tall has the potential to become a Magic
Johnson, but there is a chance-even a slim chance- to be one , if he
ends up in a basket ball team rather than in an automobile

workshop'.......what does that suggest ? Blind belief in Tulsi's
ability to become a scientist ? It doesnt look like Viswan is making
out a case for any particular person...........sashi

>>>>> <brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>

>>>>> >
>>>>> >> .
>>>>> >> >>> For more options, visit this group at
>>>>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/brights-india?hl=en-GB.
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> --
>>>>> >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>>> >> >> Google
>>>>> >> Groups "Brights India" group.
>>>>> >> >> To post to this group, send an email to
>>>>> bright...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>>> >> brights-indi...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

>>>>> <brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>

>>>>> >
>>>>> >> .
>>>>> >> >> For more options, visit this group at
>>>>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/brights-india?hl=en-GB.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > --
>>>>> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> >> > Groups
>>>>> >> "Brights India" group.
>>>>> >> > To post to this group, send an email to
>>>>> bright...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>>> >> brights-indi...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

>>>>> <brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>

>>>>> >
>>>>> >> .
>>>>> >> > For more options, visit this group at
>>>>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/brights-india?hl=en-GB.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> --
>>>>> >> d r v i j a y a n a p
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> --
>>>>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> Groups
>>>>> >> "Brights India" group.
>>>>> >> To post to this group, send an email to
>>>>> bright...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>>> >> brights-indi...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

>>>>> <brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>

[viswanathan chathoth]

>what does that suggest ? Blind belief in Tulsi's
ability to become a scientist ?

Not exactly blind faith, Sashi. As I said, these people with special abilities in certain fields ( sometimes with some other faculties relatively less developed), should be considered as 'differently abled' and treated accordingly. Ramanujan, for example, in an enlightened (and developed) society should not have had the necessity to enroll for a B.A designed for 'normal' individuals with average ability to learn anything from  mathermatics to physiology and English ; then fail,  end up jobless,search for students needing tuition in Mathematics, meet local 'mathematicians' with his notebook, get accused of plagiarism..etc..The 'B.A.degree by research' conferred on him by Cambridge University based on a single scientific paper published in a mathematical journal, is the kind of treatment such differently abled persons should receive, I believe. They  did put him in the company of mathematicians from whom he was able to learn more, correct his mistakes, and improve.

Tulsi, I believe, has shown significantly higher than average skill in learning physics and mathematics. It is in the interests of an enlightened society that his skills are nurtured well.At Indian institute of science, in seven years, he has published at least three papers in physical review, while working for a PhD. (Poor as it is in world rankings, IISC is the best institute we have in India.At least it finds  a place  in 301-400 range in ARWU rankings. Only other institution that finds a mention in this list is IIT Kharagpur, in the 401-500 range. http://www.arwu.org/ARWU2010_4.jsp )That is a quite decent output, and lampooning him for his lack of emotional intelligence and lack of social skills is heartless, I feel.

>It doesnt look like Viswan is making
out a case for any particular person.

Quite right, Sashi. It is not just a matter of Tulsi. This applies equally well to all those child prodigies misunderstood  and mistreated (sometimes with good intentions) by society.
Viswanathan

[Sashikumar kurup]

Viswan, my response was to disprove vijayan's conclusion that you had
made out a watertight case for Tulsi. I understood what you meant.
Vijayan hasnt, apparently..........sashi

> http://www.arwu.org/ARWU2010_4.jsp)That is a quite decent output, and

>> >>>>> <brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>> <brights-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com>

>> >
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> >> .
>> >>>>> >> >>> For more options, visit this group at
>> >>>>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/brights-india?hl=en-GB.
>> >>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>> >> >> --
>> >>>>> >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>> >>>>> >> >> Google
>> >>>>> >> Groups "Brights India" group.
>> >>>>> >> >> To post to this group, send an email to
>> >>>>> bright...@googlegroups.com.
>> >>>>> >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> >>>>> >> brights-indi...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
>> <brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>> >

>> >>>>> <brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>> <brights-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com>

>> >
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> >> .
>> >>>>> >> >> For more options, visit this group at
>> >>>>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/brights-india?hl=en-GB.
>> >>>>> >> >
>> >>>>> >> >
>> >>>>> >> > --
>> >>>>> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>> Google
>> >>>>> >> > Groups
>> >>>>> >> "Brights India" group.
>> >>>>> >> > To post to this group, send an email to
>> >>>>> bright...@googlegroups.com.
>> >>>>> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> >>>>> >> brights-indi...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
>> <brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>> >

>> >>>>> <brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>> <brights-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com>

>> >
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> >> .
>> >>>>> >> > For more options, visit this group at
>> >>>>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/brights-india?hl=en-GB.
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >> --
>> >>>>> >> d r v i j a y a n a p
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >> --
>> >>>>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>> >>>>> >> Google
>> >>>>> Groups
>> >>>>> >> "Brights India" group.
>> >>>>> >> To post to this group, send an email to
>> >>>>> bright...@googlegroups.com.
>> >>>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> >>>>> >> brights-indi...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
>> <brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>> >

>> >>>>> <brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>> <brights-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com>

>> >>> To post to this group, send an email to bright...@googlegroups.com

>> .
>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> >>> brights-indi...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
>> <brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>> >
>> >>> .
>> >>>
>> >>> For more options, visit this group at
>> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/brights-india?hl=en-GB.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups
>> >> "Brights India" group.
>> >> To post to this group, send an email to bright...@googlegroups.com.
>> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> >> brights-indi...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
>> <brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>> >
>> >> .
>> >> For more options, visit this group at
>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/brights-india?hl=en-GB.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --

>> > d r v i j a y a n a p
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> > Groups
>> > "Brights India" group.
>> > To post to this group, send an email to bright...@googlegroups.com.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> > brights-indi...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
>> .
>> > For more options, visit this group at
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/brights-india?hl=en-GB.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Brights India" group.
>> To post to this group, send an email to bright...@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> brights-indi...@googlegroups.com<brights-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
>> .
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/brights-india?hl=en-GB.
>>
>>
>
> --